@marcxopoco im sure he was, emitt till could have been his brother, the little girls at the 16th street baptist church could have been his sisters, but that doesnt make him a racist racist wouldnt go around kissing white babies n visiting white kids in hospitals n donating money to white people. Ali said racist things but he did the opposite, he is a real humanitarian. not a racist.
So preaching against "white" America is ok ? Thats not RACIST ?? Fuck YOU !! KOKSUCKERS like U see what u want for convenience ! REALITY sucks sometimes eh ?? Nation of Islam is OK if your "black"? KKK is intolerable ? Hypocrisy. The 2 organizations met & agreed it's best to not mingle. Ali was present, agreed. How can A-HOLES like U spout shit when the truth is in view. Just like U said. It's there for all to witness. U pick out a statement but leave the rest. Typical "poor me" BS! Pussy !!!
@faltagh YES! Preaching against the racist crimes of America was not racist. Blacks never segregated nobody, instead blacks themselves were segregated by white America , who at the same time drafted blacks to fight for the same racist USA they called them nigger when the white man is Just a bleached out nigger... according to dna. You are a white african ! lol
I have some footage of this fight on some old 8mm film which has also been recently transferred to DVD.
My Dad filmed part of this fight while filming me and my sister who had just been born, and I had to research it to find out who he was fighting. Now I know. :)
I remember hearing somewhere that Ali had a badly arthritic right shoulder, which is what led him to develop his incredible jab, it would have also reduced his right handed power. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that?
Teddy Atlas said that Muhammad Ali is one of the most underated punchers in history. He is the ONLY man to KO Oscar Bonovena and that was in the 15th round !
@truthhitmanisback Quarry said he was shocked how light Ali punched. Ali was a big man, if he would put his weight into his punches=power. He was so set on not being hit he rarely committed to power punching. Mass x velocity = power. He had both available, rarely used it. Relying on speed, reach & movement will only last so long. Lack of power, body punching & bad habits(techniques) get him beat by many ATG's.
Bonavena he fouled all night. Holding the head down is a foul. Ali gets away with it.
@1saxonwolf That's what Quarry said but Ali battered him even worse in their second fight. Infact Muhammad Ali mocked Quarry's lame punches in their 2nd fight.
@truthhitmanisback Ali didn't battered him in the 1st fight. Cut stopped the fight. IMO both guys stunk up the ring in the 2nd fight, Very poor fight, both guys tired after 3 rnds ! Quarry stunk worse lol I'm no fan of Ali's poor sportsmanship !! I think its a direct lead into todays disgusting display by pro athletes.
@1saxonwolf Ali put on a decent show after being exiled for 3 and a half years... to come back and beat a top contender in 3 rounds after a few weeks notice. But when Muhammad Ali regained his fitness back by the time of the 2nd fight he BATTERED Quarry and PLAYED with him, calling the ref to stop the fight. Ali proved that Quarry was rubbish when compared to himself. Just played with him like a little boy. Spanking him Just to annoy Quarry's racist fans LOL
@truthhitmanisback I don't see what you see. "Battered" & "played" ? You don't fight, that I'm positive. Funny you bring up racism. Quarry was not known as a racist. Ali was a pronounced racist. Wouldn't it be more true to write Ali beat Quarry to please his racist fans ? Thats more of a truth.
@truthhitmanisback "Taking a stand", r u referring to yourself or Ali ? If u r referring to Ali then your an idiot. U don't know your history. Ali was a self-proclaimed racist. Fact! If your referring to yourself then denounce Ali's once racist stands. Quarry was not known to be a racist.
I have no interest to further this discussion outside of boxing. U brought this up. It's apparent it's an issue. Get over it. Lets talk boxing.
@1saxonwolf r u serious? Ali wasn't racist, he was a proud black man, who stood up for himself and black people in a time when blacks were being bombed, lynched, attacked by dogs, and sprayed with hoses, Ali never lynched or shot a white person, how the fuck was he racist??? show me proof that the man was a racist? that man had integrity, and guts, the KKK were racists, J. Edgar Hoover was racist, what did Ali do, that a white man had the right to call him a racist?
@rickosuave29 Take your blinders off ! You must be under 30, right ? It will take you no less than 2 minutes to find plenty of evidence. Either you-tube or google. Am I serious ? Are you ? Ali was a SELF-Proclaimed racist, a fountainhead for the NATION of Islam, a RACIST organization by self proclamation. It's astounding the lack of knowledge by people. If you are going to Idolize someone, at least know who they are !! Like I said earlier, lets keep it to boxing, this never goes anywhere good.
@1saxonwolf U missed my whole point. That was the 60's, do u know how black people were in America were treated in the 60's????? don't be a moron man, My point is that The Black muslim movement was a reaction to the hatred toward blacks at the time. To call Muhammad a racist is like saying a sheep is a racist because it doesn't like Wolves, Muhammad didn't hate white people. if u don't understand that I can't possibly help u, I give up.
@rickosuave29 I'm probably 20 + yrs older than you, of course I know. I didn't miss ur point. Ali acknowledged himself a racist. I'm simply stating a well known fact. Ali would't argue it, he said it. He said "White people are the blue eyed devils", among other slanderous things. He said he didn't like "white people". These are recorded statements !! You obviously didn't search for it, because it's there to be found. BTW, I'm not writing in anger, just clarifying. Don't give up .
@1saxonwolf u probably r that much older than me, so it's sad that ur on here trying to mislead these people, they might actually listen to your ignorant statements. I won't repeat myself, I already explained perfectly y ur wrong. anyone who knows anything about Ali, and the civil rights struggle can read these statements and see that I'm right. all reasonable people know that this man is a National Treasure, even Bush gave Ali the medal of Freedom. how the fuck is Ali racist????
@faltagh On that same Michael Parkinson show Ali said that he didnt have a single black friend also. Anyone reading this can see for themselves cos its all on Youtube.. so why did you leave out the other part ?
He also said that his leader was Elijah Muhammad who preached the doom of white America only and not europe like the british people etc,etc,... again why did you leave that part out ? PISS OFF you racist faggot ! Your point of view is proper weak besides mine.
@faltagh I've watched that interview, several times, it was with Michael Parkinson, that's where u got all those quotes. I've already explained myself man, go back and read all my comments and u learn your history. The man is not, and was not a racist. I have several documentaries on this man's life, if u don't get that That Ali never hated white people and was simply repeating what was taught to him by Elijah Muhammad, that's because u watched 1 interview, and didn't do your research.
@rickosuave29 So,,, He said those quotes, but didn't mean them ?? HAH ! In other words we can't believe what he says ? Hum. He was taught to hate white people by a racist organization he freely joined & stayed with for decades but didn't really believe what they taught ?
And people are supposed to listen to you ?
This is as comical as it gets. Or sad as it gets, depending on your view.
Your a great example of the sheep mentality that religions figured out eons ago. Whew, frick'in scary.
@faltagh U r so fucking clueless it's annoying. U watch one interview and think u can dissect this Great man's life. everyone who has studied this man, can read these comments and tell u're an idiot, or a racist trying to discredit a Great black man. It's sad how little u know, and have the nerve to get on youtube and pose as a scholar. U're so pathetic, and ignorant I pitty you. This man has done more charity work, and been on more peace keeping missions. He is a U.N. messenger of Peace.
@faltagh have u ever seen this man interact with white people? who are u to judge the comments he made on the Parkinson show? who are u to call a black man a racist, when he was living in America in the 60's during the Civil Rights struggle? U must be a racist. during the 60's joining the black muslims was a way of being protected, and it made sense for blacks at that time, when blacks were getting shot, bombed, and lynched just for being black. The wolf can't call the sheep a racist u dumbass.
@truthhitmanisback weak. Funny how you don't have anything to say about what you started. Is your BS "truth" shattered ? Isn't your hero worship standing up to scrutiny. Fucking pathetic . As USUAL.
@truthhitmanisback There it is, someone put it out there for you. There's plenty more of that too.Plain to see who's weak. Funny thing about this whole debate(?) Ali WAS very proud of his stand at the time. There really isn't a question about his stand. With a handle like yours its FK'in comical. Looser.
Truculant? hahaahaaa. That Howard Cossell is well read alright. Some people arn't too stubborn to open up a dictionary, while others simply know how to box.
When watching Folleys little boy crying over his dads knock out . Ali approaches the boy and tells him that his father was better than him . You might have million boxers to come which might be million times better than Ali but
That is because the fighters of the 60's where leaner and not as heavy. They were light heavyweight cruizer weight challengers. However Floyd Patterson did well against bigger men than himself. Cleveland Williams cut the ring against Ali but never did what Foreman would do and that was to manhandle his opponents that was the difference. Cleveland Williams fought through the 70's and he beat good jorneymen boxers so this they were half the men is rubbish. Remember Ali was faster and not heavy
Clueless @MrTClubber doesn't know that Cleveland Williams was SHOT IN THE STOMACH at point blank range a year and a half before he 'fought' Ali. The Cleveland Williams Ali 'fought' was missing ten feet of his small intestine, one kidney, and had a shriveled left leg above the knee from nerve damage caused by a fragment of the bullet hitting his spine.
The way Foreman cut the ring off on Ali, he HAD to take those body shots, plus he couldnt dance for 15 rounds like he used to because he said, " Apart from Sonny Liston, the fighters of the 60s wernt half the fighters of the 70s." Imagine if it was Mike Tyson instead of Foreman !
@mbhotie715 But at 21 he matched with speed elusiveness and more power.since frazier and norton gave ali fits 3 times both,a 21 yr old tyson would be alis nightmare.
Tyson is too short and predictable to beat Ali. Tyson couldn't even deal with Douglas or Holyfield, so it's hard for me to imagine Tyson beating Ali. Ali blocked and ducked Foreman's blows in Zaire. At that time, Foreman was too wild and undisciplined, and it cost him in Zaire.
And when would you have proposed this match? 1965-1967 when Frazier was only a two-year pro, or post 1967 when Folley was thoroughly over the hill and irrelevant?
Remind me, which former major contender and 10+ year pro did Ali face in the first 2 years of his career?
My god, your hate for Frazier seems to have no bounds. Almost as boundless as your idiocy.
I wouldn't let young Ricky's ramblings worry you. He's a teenage remedial outcast who's never even had a pillow fight, let alone ever set foot in the ring. He's just wet weenie in reality and wouldn't dare mouth off on the streets or in the gym the way he does behind his PC.
Foreman never recovered after the Ali fight and never was able to climb back to mountain top til he was forty (if you can call it that). That's why there was no rematch. Besides the fact that he didn't even know what happened in the fight after the third round. I suggest everyone stop arguing with an idiot who like to prance about saying the same thing over and over again as if it were the gospel that makes him right.
Foreman assuredly did want a rematch. He went 5-0 with KOs in his comeback after Zaire and was calling out Ali every chance he got. Ali on the other hand would never commit to a second go with George, preferring to focus on his bum of every other month club.
Foreman didn't fight again til 76 when Ali beat him in 74, by that time Ali was out of his prime and Ali had rematches with Frazier and Norton instead, after those matches he was well out of his prime so i don't blame him for not fight Foreman, i think he should have retired earlier, although that said Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 77 and Ali beat Young in 76
Ali also had fights with Wepner, Dunn, Coopman and Evangelista between 74-77. Why couldn't Foreman have filled in for one of those? Bugner, Lyle and Young were not ranked above Foreman either, but they got title shots too.
Foreman never fought anyone in after the fight with ali till 76, mabey it was Foreman who didn't want to fight till 76 or later, like i said Ali was out of his prime so of course he wouldn't fight Foreman at that time.
The irony is that the Foreman fight was the one that did Ali the most long term damage. Those body shots he took were brutal, but Ali was too tough for his own good. He was never quite the same after that.
@LastTrumpets7 No it wasnt the one that done the damge were after foreman .. foreman was a relatively light fight compared to his next few.. he took body shots with ease it was the headshots later on with holmes e.t.c that buggered ali totally
Cassius Clay, aka Cassius X (still his legal name) did look good against Folley. Then, X fought Jerry Quarry like a girl and Bonavena like a street fighter. Anyone else would have been dq'd vs Bonavena but not X. It remains, next to Cooper I, the most disgraceful performance by X.
look how fast Ali is thos right hands are supernatural in the 7th round the fight commentator is talk while Ali knocked him out he didint even see it coming
what i think is that Ali stood rite on top of them when they were down first of all to let them no who was the best, and second to give em time to recuperate so that he could carry on the ass whopping when he had to teach em a lesson.
I agree with the Williams part - Foley not so much. I don;t think there was a lot of interest in that fight. Patterson fought Liston almost right after the Johanssen fights
ali never ducked anybody, he challenged an in prime sonny liston and an in prime george foreman and beat them both and they were better fighters than folley and williams better by a mile
Haha what a tool. If Sonny wasn't in his prime when was his prime? Sonny had just come off of his two destructions of Patterson and it was the only time during his career Sonny would be HW champ. Ali kicked his ass fair and square and is without a doubt one of the greatest ever. You shit on Ali and then talk about the greatness of Tyson, it's really hilarious.
ha ha that shows how little knowledge you have, its a well known fact foreman became the number 1 contender in 71, just when ali returned to the sport and when frazier was champion not ali, so how could he have ducked him in the 70s when he wasnt even the champ frazier was
That is shockingly stupid. Ali won the title from Foreman in October of '74, and was champion from then until losing to Spinks in '78. Ali was champ in the 70's longer than Frazier, Foreman, Spinks & Holmes.
Foreman was the number one contender after Ali beat him, and remained so untl '77 when lost to Jimmy Young.
Did you really not know Ali was champ twice in the 70's? Or did you not know Foreman was the #1 after he lost in Zaire? Either way , not good
Then why didn't he fight him again? Foreman wanted the fight, the fans wanted the fight, it would've been the highest paying fight of the time. At the time Foreman was itching to fight him, never mind what he might say now.
This is the same guy who was shrieking after losing to Fraizer in 71 about a return bout and the media dutifully reported everything he said. You can al it what you want, but not fighting the #1 guy for four years is ducking him.
Of course he was - it wasn't Frazier, and it sure wasn't Norton until '77. Who was number one if not Foreman? Just as Liston was number one after Ali beat him, Foreman was number one until the Young fight. He knocked otu everyone of the top contenders - he was the big money fight. Ali fooled him once, he didn;t have the tools left to do it again.
Ali never ducked Foreman. After his loss to Ali, Foreman went into a year long depression. When he came back he fought those 5 clowns in 1 night. Ali was busy fighting Frazier in Manila, Norton in NY, and before that Lyle in Vegas. Foreman almost got ko'd in his 1st "real fight" back by Lyle, and then beat Frazier in fight 2. Only then was he even quoted as saying he wanted a rematch w Ali. Then George blew it by losing to Jimmy Young. Ali never ducked anyone. Even after he was totally washed up
Foreman was on the cover of SI wanting a rematch with Ali - it's a very well know story. It was the biggest fight out there at the time. I assume you are old enough to remember, there wasn;t even that mucy interest in the third Frzier fight, sicne nobody gave him much of a chance going in.
Foreman was the number one contender, and the champion did not fight him for three years. That's ducking, plain and simple. Ali fans only see things the way he wants them to see them. Facts don't count
Ali made it clear Foreman had to earn right to fight for title again. Don't forget Frazier refused to give Ali rematch immediatley after 1st fight as well. Ali was certainly not scared of george. He (Foreman) was tailor made for Ali. Even Jimmy Young a few yrs later showed slick boxers owned Foreman. Sluggers who came straight at him, he killed. Not untli Foreman beat Frazier in fight 2 did he earn the right to even ask 4 a rematch in my view. Ali wasn't "ducking" a guy he knew he could handle.
Ali can make clear whatever he wants - the title holder does not determine who is qualified to fight. That statement alone indicates he was ducking him. How can you not fight the #1contender for your entire 4-year term as heavyweight champion. Facts are facts. Do you really think he and his people would turn down the most money they would have ever seen, becuase Foreman had not "earned" the fight? He fought Antonio Inoki! Wepner, Coopman, the list goes on. C'mon.
Ali fought Wepner right after he schooled Foreman. And he fought Coopman righta after he beat Frazier in Manila. Those are called "breathers". Easy fights which he was entitled to have right after beating Foreman and Frazier. Foreman "fought" that Puerto Rican guy Roman after he beat Frazier. Every great has a few soft touches. Joe Louis did it a'lot(bum of the month). Frazier defended vs Daniels, and Stanton. Sure Ali had some softies he fought, but overall noone fought and beat better fighters
Fraizer wasn;t entitled to it, Foreman wasn;t entitled to it, and Ali certainly wasn't entitled to it. You're operating under the assumption, Ali should've decided who he would fight. That's what happened but it's wrong. The original point was Ali ducked Foreman becuase he could, and nobody called him on it, as they should have. Not fighting the #1 contender for your entire 4-year term as champion is ducking. What would you call it ? He, and his people, were just milking the title.
Foreman was "NOT" the no 1 contender all 4 yrs Ali held the title. You are wrong. I have all the Ring and Boxing Illust, and World Boxing mag's of the 60's and 70's contender rankings. How could you say that? In Jan 77 after Foreman lost to Young he wasn't no1 cont. Ali was champ for another 13 mo without George as no 1 cont. Also in mid 1976 Ken Norton was no1 cont. You are wrong again. I know you like George(so do i), but he was not ducked by Ali. If we use your standard every champ ducked.
If you will look above, you will see I say Ali never fought the #1 contedner and make mention of Norton beating Young to get that ranking. I didn;t say Foreman was the #1 contender, I said Ali never fought THE #1 contedner in the 70's, regardless of who that was.
Really, this is pointless going back and forth. Ali never fought the #1 contender, when he was the #1 contender, whether it's Foreman or Norton.
I haven't been wrong yet - I've been factually correct every time. Look below for the posting, yesterday saying Ali didn;t fight Norton when he was #1 either.
BTW, you know magazines don;t offcially rank fighters. It's the governing bodies that do. Those are the official sanctioning bodies which have the titles. Not Ring magazine and Burt Sugar, and certainly not Boxing Illustrated.
The fact remains he never fought the #1 contender in the 70's - period. Why?
All those no1 contenders in the 1970's you keep bringing up he beat during that decade. Norton was no1 cont in 77, and Ali had already beaten him the year be4. You can try to number crunch all you want, he fought, and beat every great fighter there was to fight in that decade before he lost in 78. Unless you think he should have fought Sly Stallone (Rocky).
If you wish to believe Ali never fought Foreman again for "legitimate reasons", go ahead.
There is no logical reason. You say Foreman hand't earned the fight? Did Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista, etc?
You say becuase he already knew he would win? Didn't he know that against those stiffs? The money wasn't enough? I think we know that wasn;t the case.
What happened to mandatory title defences? The guy would fight anybody for money, and yet won;t collect the biggest payday ever for him?
Name one fighter in the 70's Ali didn't face that he should have. Dunn, and Coopman were soft touches, ofcourse. But they were all in between his epic battles with Foreman, Frazier, and Norton. Ali like all great fighters fought great fighters, good fighters, and bums. Why do you single him out? Foreman was his own worst enemy. He almost had a total mental breakdown after Ali ko'd him.
If you go the Super Bowl, you still have to play the other team, even if you've beaten them that season. Whether you won before is irrelevant. The champ has to defend once/year against #1. He never did. Tiger Woods still has to play the field no matter how many times he's beaten them. Nadal still has to play the matches at the French even though he's never lost to anybody there - oops, he lost.
He should;ve fought #1, he didn't. It's not about Foreman, it's Ali
Different sports you can't compare. In tennis its a draw sheet. You play vs whoever is in your half of the draw. Totally different. Also when you beat a team in a super bowl, the losing team is not automatically entitled to a rematch just because they were top contender. You have to earn the right to go back to the superbowl. Foreman didn't. Norton was to be Ali's next opponent had he not lost to Spinks. Stop complaining. Ali was the greatest (in his prime) heavy ever. And always active champ.
At the end of the dfay Ali did not fight the #1 contender in the 70's, and everything else you bring up is moot. There is not a single champion, certainly since then, and after Dempsey who got away with that many years of not fighting #1.
Whether you think he was the best or not is not the point. Whether he would've won is not the point, that is all opinion.
Fact is, he didn't, or wouldn;t. A debate is about facts more than conjecture. You're simply an Ali apologist. Let's move on.
I'm not an Ali apologist. He doesn't need one. Certainly not when it comes to the competition he fought and beat. Nor to his greatness as a fighter. That he stayed around too long, and go too far in trying to hype fights (Frazier etc) yes. But that he avoided anyone, NO way. If that's the case all heavyweight champs are guilty. And by the way you conveniently leave out 1964-67 when he first held the title. Did he "avoid" no 1 challengers then too?
Of course not in the 60's - he could beat them, and there certainly wasn't anbody the calibre of Foreman, Norton around - ergo the Foley fight.
Look, as simple as I can - He doesn;t fight the #1 - period. You want to argue he was the best ever, go ahead. But you can;'t argue he didn;t fight #1 post '74.
What is your point? He didn't have to? Different rules for him? When you make excuses in the face of facts - definition of apologist. Fighters, even then, were supposed to fight #1's.
You write that he fought all no1 cont in the 60's because he could beat them. I don't know how to break this to you but he could, and did beat all the no1's in the 70's as well. Frazier, Foreman, and Norton etc.
A fighter only fights a few dozen times in his career. I don't see why Ali is obliged to give Foreman a second fight, when he won the first by knockout. If it was a close decision, then sure. But if he wins by knockout, there are plenty of other fighters that should be given a chance instead.
Would you rather he just fought the same 2 or 3 guys over and over until one of them won? That's kind of silly if you ask me.
Using your arguement - Patterson gets ko's by Johanssen, yet they fight in a rematch, and in another after another KO.
Clay knocks out Liston, yet they fight a rematch; As recently as Rahman knocking out Lewis, and they fight a rematch. The precendent has been set many, many times.
He was the #1 contender. Ali was obliged, -it's called a mandatory title defence. The inmates don't , or shouldn;t, run the asylum. In this case they did.
Lewis apparently had lots of excuses (his training schedule being disrupted by making movies) and his performance in the fight was questionable. Johanssen was the first European to bet an American for a title since 1933, so that deserves a rematch. Finally, the first Ali-Liston fight was marred with controversy (chemicals in Ali's eyes, Liston quitting on his stool).
But there was nothing questionable about Ali knocking out Foreman. That was as clean as they come.
Foreman dissapeared for over a yr after he lost to Ali. He went into a depression. Ali hardly fought the bum of the month. In 1975 he fought Lyle, FrazierIII, Bugner, and Wepner. Foreman didn't even attempt a comeback fight (except his 4 bums in 1 night in Canada fiasco). In 77 they would have met after Foreman-FrazierII, but Foreman lost to Jimmy Young. That certainly wasn't Ali's fault. Look how long Ali had to wait for Frazier rematch. Ali fought the greatest collection of fighters overall.
Foreman was inactive because he was expecting an immediate rematch. Wepner, Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista were journeymen who didn't deserve title shots. Lyle and Bugner were never ranked above Foreman either.
If Foreman would have faced Ali if he'd beat Young, then why didn't Ali face Young again? Or why did he fight the unranked Spinks instead of a 4th Norton fight? There aren't many holes to pick in Ali's opposition up to 1975. After that methinks he was picking his fights carefully.
Why would he expect immediate rematch? Ali didn't get one for 3 yrs after Frazier I. Louis never gave Braddock one. Holmes never gave Norton one. Foreman himself didn't fight Frazier again after taking his title until both were no longer champs in 1976. Automatic rematches were never guaranteed. Foreman was great puncher, and prob the strongest man ever to hold the title. But his style was made to order for Ali. I doubt Ali ever feared him. But i do think Ali should have retired after 75.
Liston got an immediate rematch with Ali, Ali got immediate rematches with Norton and Spinks. Ali was the king of rematches, even Bugner got one. Yet he never made one which would likely have been the biggest payday of his career, and at a time when he was making lots of gimme type defenses against journeymen.
Dunno how you can say Foreman was made to order for Ali based on one fight. If Ali had never got rematches with Frazier, Norton and Spinks would you now be saying they all had his number?
No because Ali proved throughout his career that he could beat all styles. Foreman clearly had trouble with guys who boxed him. I like George by the way. I just don't think Ali was fearful of a rematch. I don't know 100% why there wasn't a rematch, but unless it happened when Ali was 35 or older, the final outcome would have been another Ali win. Foreman was death on sluggers, but not as good when confronted guys who didn't come at him. Styles make fights. Ali was shot by the time of Spinks I,II
Ali also had problems against a wide variety of styles in his career. Given the amount of punishment he took in Zaire, and how dreadful he looked in most of his subsequent outings, I don't see a Foreman rematch as a gimme. There's gotta be a reason why Ali made a lot of defenses against lesser opposition whilst failing to make the biggest fight out there for him after '74.
@iamtman1 will explain to us why Ali never gave Jimmy Young a rematch after Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons and then beat Lyle and Foreman.
@marcxopoco Young never gave Ali a boxing lesson. Ali was 35yrs old out of shape. He fought poorly that night, young had nothing to do with it. Besides young 6 times in the last 5 rds kept ducking his head out of the ropes to be bailed out by ref. That's no way to take the title from the champ. I still scored that 9-6 Ali. As for your other comments that
jones, norton (2 and 3), and Sheavers beat him, WRONG AGAIN. I have them on dvd Ali won them all i thought! Clearly you are clueless!!
@marcxopoco You need help! Young is not "hated by members of the religion of Ali' as you comically write. Young is a footnote in the history of Ali the greatest heavyweight ever. Young lost 10 of 15 rds to a washed up 35 yr old Ali. Ali was never 'exposed' by young as anythng but fat, overconfident and ageing (which happens to all) . That would be like claiming Louis was "exposed' by Ezz charles who shut him out over 15rds. Every1 knows Louis was old/past peak. And remember Ali still beat young
@marcxopoco No you look like an ass! As for the crowd booing him after the Young fight, so what? It was a lousy boring fight! I would have booed as well. That doesn't mean he lost. As for your comment that "all the black Wash dc crowd booing him, last i checked, J.Young was also black. What's your point? I'm not half witted as you said in your last comment. But if i was, it's still half more witted than you apparently are. I'm white, and of European ancestry. Unlike you, i don't hate Ali though
@marcxopoco What boxing lesson? You call that a boxing lesson you must learn the def of lesson! Young did nothing but stand there and throw 4 or 5 light jabs a round, and whenever Ali got within 5 ft of him, Young ducked his head outside the ropes(illegall). Ali almost lost to himself that night. Young had very lit to do with it. Decision was just, not a travesty. "Ass whipping' Lol, you call that?? I think you've gotten some of those in your life from others. That's why you make no sense!!
@marcxopoco You're such an idiot it's comical! Firstly, i have forgotten more boxing than you will ever know. 2nd, to call Ali as mediocre confirms your idiocy. Then you blab, that Ali didn't have a clue how to fight a counterpuncher. Lol! Again conf your idiocy. In Ali's prime he toyed with sluggers, boxers, counterpunchers as Folley here perf ex. Folley a counterpuncher hopeless against vintage Ali. Arguing with you is like taking candy from a baby. A dumb baby too. Change your name againLOL!
@marcxopoco you keep repeating the same nonsense. Don't you have another line. Was Jimmy Young laughing at the fact he won 5 of 15 rounds when he was laughing as you say in Ali's face/ You kp saying he was bouncing Ali's head around. What fight were u watching. Young didn't hit Ali with anything that could have hurt an ant. Nothing! Again, the young fight was all about ali's shape, and age, and overconf, and nothing to do with anything young did.
@iamtman1 Ali had problems when he couldnt get his jab working and when he fought awkward fast fighters.His record is not that good.I had norton winning all three fights,maybe the second,ali squeezed it out but judging from norton and frazier,I still pick a 21 yr old tyson over any ali after 1970.
@marcxopoco Ali had some problems with some awkaward type quick fighters but ali always seemed to find a way to pull a rabbit out of the hat.When he ko'd foreman,that did it for me.he was amazing,holyfield,bowe and lewis would all lose to foreman of 73-74.
@marcxopoco just when i start forgetting how stupid and ignorant u are, you come back and remind me. Thanks for showing me again how clueless u are. Btw why don't u go on the utube sights of fighters you like, instead of making a regular ass of yourself on Ali sights. Why frustrate yourself explaining to us how u think earth is flat?
BTW, Ali did not fight the winner of the Young-Norton fight, which determined the #1 contender in the fall of '77. Instead he fought Leon Spinks in Feb of '78 .Again ducking the #1 contender. Thats' when the WBC stripped Spinks of thier title and gave it to Norton, since Spinks fought the rematch with Ali
Foley was past his best and by the time he fought Ali he had a police bullet lodged in his body , none of this is ALIs fault of course but Z Foley was past his physical best, clearly
Tyosn would cut off the ring and can duck and weave in like Frazier but hit with far more power. Ali would have to cheat by leaning on ropes at a an angle. But that would only work if the ropes were loosened enough (which is what his team did prior to Foreman).
how is that cheating u retard if a mans on the ropes hes a sitting target 4 punches, the only reason he lay against the ropes was because he felt all foreman had and it was nothing so he let him punch himself out which he did and clearly wasnt hurt by anything foreman had then he knocked him out cold, i cant believe ur mentioning ali in the same breath as a man who was knocked out cold by a slow unranked 42/1 underdog bum by the name of buster douglas ur the one who is fixed my friend ha ha
read about the people who were in the dressing room with liston after the fight and read what they said about the way his face looked, mentioning muhammed ali as even a match for mike tyson is ridiculous, fuck mike tyson what is he known for? knocking out bums, name me one fighter that was any good who tyson knocked out go on just one?, ali knocked out liston and foreman, the latter of the two foreman had the biggest KO percentage rate of all time, more knockouts than tyson had in his career
razor ruddock...and michael spinks...and larry holmes....now go ahead, make excuses why they were either bums or out of it. the only reason u say theyre bums now is cos tyson beat em down, before tyson these men were considered great fighters, and dnt think about sayin holmes was past it, like that so was tyson when he fough lewis.
I was there. There was a huge revolution. There was the Viet Nam war and protests. National Guard shooting students. Huge riots and Ali was very much part of that time and part of the changes that affect the very way u live to this day. You bet he's my idol. He stood up to the U.S. government and more. You're too young to understand.not to mention the greatest HW to ever live.
NeonLeon78 says Ali was a good fighter,but not a good champion. RESPONSE: man, these little twerps should go back and watch WWF. This was/is for real kiddo. ...Ali WAS boxing. Go back to trying to figure out the big bang but to honest I think you're over your limitations of brains. Spinks was in 1978 and Ali had Parkinson's and still came back to be champ. In his prime(pre draft issue)Ali was the best HW ever! Spinks never "beat the hell out of Ali". Ali=G.O.A.T. You know nothing.
16 th street baptist church
rickosuave29 1 month ago
@marcxopoco im sure he was, emitt till could have been his brother, the little girls at the 16th street baptist church could have been his sisters, but that doesnt make him a racist racist wouldnt go around kissing white babies n visiting white kids in hospitals n donating money to white people. Ali said racist things but he did the opposite, he is a real humanitarian. not a racist.
rickosuave29 1 month ago
Baaaah, baaah ! Your fk'in pathetic excuses ! Cry some more! Babbling ! Answer the fuck'in question ! You can't, thats why u babble on !
You fuck'in disgust me !
faltagh 9 months ago
So preaching against "white" America is ok ? Thats not RACIST ?? Fuck YOU !! KOKSUCKERS like U see what u want for convenience ! REALITY sucks sometimes eh ?? Nation of Islam is OK if your "black"? KKK is intolerable ? Hypocrisy. The 2 organizations met & agreed it's best to not mingle. Ali was present, agreed. How can A-HOLES like U spout shit when the truth is in view. Just like U said. It's there for all to witness. U pick out a statement but leave the rest. Typical "poor me" BS! Pussy !!!
faltagh 9 months ago
@faltagh YES! Preaching against the racist crimes of America was not racist. Blacks never segregated nobody, instead blacks themselves were segregated by white America , who at the same time drafted blacks to fight for the same racist USA they called them nigger when the white man is Just a bleached out nigger... according to dna. You are a white african ! lol
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
I have some footage of this fight on some old 8mm film which has also been recently transferred to DVD.
My Dad filmed part of this fight while filming me and my sister who had just been born, and I had to research it to find out who he was fighting. Now I know. :)
BaldViking 10 months ago
I remember hearing somewhere that Ali had a badly arthritic right shoulder, which is what led him to develop his incredible jab, it would have also reduced his right handed power. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that?
cet0708 1 year ago
Teddy Atlas said that Muhammad Ali is one of the most underated punchers in history. He is the ONLY man to KO Oscar Bonovena and that was in the 15th round !
truthhitmanisback 1 year ago
@truthhitmanisback Quarry said he was shocked how light Ali punched. Ali was a big man, if he would put his weight into his punches=power. He was so set on not being hit he rarely committed to power punching. Mass x velocity = power. He had both available, rarely used it. Relying on speed, reach & movement will only last so long. Lack of power, body punching & bad habits(techniques) get him beat by many ATG's.
Bonavena he fouled all night. Holding the head down is a foul. Ali gets away with it.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago 2
@1saxonwolf That's what Quarry said but Ali battered him even worse in their second fight. Infact Muhammad Ali mocked Quarry's lame punches in their 2nd fight.
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback Ali didn't battered him in the 1st fight. Cut stopped the fight. IMO both guys stunk up the ring in the 2nd fight, Very poor fight, both guys tired after 3 rnds ! Quarry stunk worse lol I'm no fan of Ali's poor sportsmanship !! I think its a direct lead into todays disgusting display by pro athletes.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago 2
@1saxonwolf Ali put on a decent show after being exiled for 3 and a half years... to come back and beat a top contender in 3 rounds after a few weeks notice. But when Muhammad Ali regained his fitness back by the time of the 2nd fight he BATTERED Quarry and PLAYED with him, calling the ref to stop the fight. Ali proved that Quarry was rubbish when compared to himself. Just played with him like a little boy. Spanking him Just to annoy Quarry's racist fans LOL
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback I don't see what you see. "Battered" & "played" ? You don't fight, that I'm positive. Funny you bring up racism. Quarry was not known as a racist. Ali was a pronounced racist. Wouldn't it be more true to write Ali beat Quarry to please his racist fans ? Thats more of a truth.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago 2
@1saxonwolf Taking a stand AGAINST racism doesn't mean you are one. It sounds like YOU are the racist.
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback "Taking a stand", r u referring to yourself or Ali ? If u r referring to Ali then your an idiot. U don't know your history. Ali was a self-proclaimed racist. Fact! If your referring to yourself then denounce Ali's once racist stands. Quarry was not known to be a racist.
I have no interest to further this discussion outside of boxing. U brought this up. It's apparent it's an issue. Get over it. Lets talk boxing.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@1saxonwolf r u serious? Ali wasn't racist, he was a proud black man, who stood up for himself and black people in a time when blacks were being bombed, lynched, attacked by dogs, and sprayed with hoses, Ali never lynched or shot a white person, how the fuck was he racist??? show me proof that the man was a racist? that man had integrity, and guts, the KKK were racists, J. Edgar Hoover was racist, what did Ali do, that a white man had the right to call him a racist?
rickosuave29 9 months ago
@rickosuave29 Take your blinders off ! You must be under 30, right ? It will take you no less than 2 minutes to find plenty of evidence. Either you-tube or google. Am I serious ? Are you ? Ali was a SELF-Proclaimed racist, a fountainhead for the NATION of Islam, a RACIST organization by self proclamation. It's astounding the lack of knowledge by people. If you are going to Idolize someone, at least know who they are !! Like I said earlier, lets keep it to boxing, this never goes anywhere good.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago 2
@1saxonwolf U missed my whole point. That was the 60's, do u know how black people were in America were treated in the 60's????? don't be a moron man, My point is that The Black muslim movement was a reaction to the hatred toward blacks at the time. To call Muhammad a racist is like saying a sheep is a racist because it doesn't like Wolves, Muhammad didn't hate white people. if u don't understand that I can't possibly help u, I give up.
rickosuave29 9 months ago
@rickosuave29 I'm probably 20 + yrs older than you, of course I know. I didn't miss ur point. Ali acknowledged himself a racist. I'm simply stating a well known fact. Ali would't argue it, he said it. He said "White people are the blue eyed devils", among other slanderous things. He said he didn't like "white people". These are recorded statements !! You obviously didn't search for it, because it's there to be found. BTW, I'm not writing in anger, just clarifying. Don't give up .
1saxonwolf 9 months ago 2
@1saxonwolf u probably r that much older than me, so it's sad that ur on here trying to mislead these people, they might actually listen to your ignorant statements. I won't repeat myself, I already explained perfectly y ur wrong. anyone who knows anything about Ali, and the civil rights struggle can read these statements and see that I'm right. all reasonable people know that this man is a National Treasure, even Bush gave Ali the medal of Freedom. how the fuck is Ali racist????
rickosuave29 9 months ago
@rickosuave29 Your afraid of the truth. Anyone who's not will simply look into it. It's there to see and hear. Simple.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@rickosuave29 Here's some ALI quotes, from a interview you can find on you-tube. Know your history before you open your mouth.
" I don't have a single white friend. Dundee ? No, he's an associate just trying to make $ off me".
"We know the white man is the devil. Our goal is to separate, have our own country."
" It's a fact white people hate black people."
" White people who's DESERVED time of destruction is at hand."
" We don't believe the white man is the devil, we know it".
Explain that ?
faltagh 9 months ago 2
@faltagh On that same Michael Parkinson show Ali said that he didnt have a single black friend also. Anyone reading this can see for themselves cos its all on Youtube.. so why did you leave out the other part ?
He also said that his leader was Elijah Muhammad who preached the doom of white America only and not europe like the british people etc,etc,... again why did you leave that part out ? PISS OFF you racist faggot ! Your point of view is proper weak besides mine.
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@faltagh I've watched that interview, several times, it was with Michael Parkinson, that's where u got all those quotes. I've already explained myself man, go back and read all my comments and u learn your history. The man is not, and was not a racist. I have several documentaries on this man's life, if u don't get that That Ali never hated white people and was simply repeating what was taught to him by Elijah Muhammad, that's because u watched 1 interview, and didn't do your research.
rickosuave29 9 months ago
@rickosuave29 So,,, He said those quotes, but didn't mean them ?? HAH ! In other words we can't believe what he says ? Hum. He was taught to hate white people by a racist organization he freely joined & stayed with for decades but didn't really believe what they taught ?
And people are supposed to listen to you ?
This is as comical as it gets. Or sad as it gets, depending on your view.
Your a great example of the sheep mentality that religions figured out eons ago. Whew, frick'in scary.
faltagh 9 months ago
@faltagh U r so fucking clueless it's annoying. U watch one interview and think u can dissect this Great man's life. everyone who has studied this man, can read these comments and tell u're an idiot, or a racist trying to discredit a Great black man. It's sad how little u know, and have the nerve to get on youtube and pose as a scholar. U're so pathetic, and ignorant I pitty you. This man has done more charity work, and been on more peace keeping missions. He is a U.N. messenger of Peace.
rickosuave29 9 months ago
@faltagh have u ever seen this man interact with white people? who are u to judge the comments he made on the Parkinson show? who are u to call a black man a racist, when he was living in America in the 60's during the Civil Rights struggle? U must be a racist. during the 60's joining the black muslims was a way of being protected, and it made sense for blacks at that time, when blacks were getting shot, bombed, and lynched just for being black. The wolf can't call the sheep a racist u dumbass.
rickosuave29 9 months ago
Ali was filled with Hate.
As were thee people around him.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
Ali and his Nation of Islam were proud Hate-White racists.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
@1saxonwolf you sound gay
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback As usual, a pussy like you runs and hides when called on your BS. Common.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@1saxonwolf yeah but you still sound gay though.... A racist gay who loves Rimming !
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback weak. Funny how you don't have anything to say about what you started. Is your BS "truth" shattered ? Isn't your hero worship standing up to scrutiny. Fucking pathetic . As USUAL.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@1saxonwolf Go and get some facts because your point of view is WEAK !
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback There it is, someone put it out there for you. There's plenty more of that too.Plain to see who's weak. Funny thing about this whole debate(?) Ali WAS very proud of his stand at the time. There really isn't a question about his stand. With a handle like yours its FK'in comical. Looser.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@truthhitmanisback is a racist.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
moat of the normal HW contenders Ali had faced during his era would make world champions in HW boxing today, that is how competitive it was!
rizzi2007 1 year ago
punches ali landed looked like nothing,look like a fix
finetubs 1 year ago
Muhammad Ali really is the greatest boxer ever.
shak4lyf 1 year ago
Except when he got beaten by Jimmy Young, Ken Norton, Doug Jones, Shavers, Leon Spinks.
LOL
marcxopoco 2 months ago
thanks for posting
theonlysaltspring 1 year ago
Truculant? hahaahaaa. That Howard Cossell is well read alright. Some people arn't too stubborn to open up a dictionary, while others simply know how to box.
datsun380zx 1 year ago
When watching Folleys little boy crying over his dads knock out . Ali approaches the boy and tells him that his father was better than him . You might have million boxers to come which might be million times better than Ali but
No one can ever be Muhammad Ali.
cadets64 1 year ago 2
That is because the fighters of the 60's where leaner and not as heavy. They were light heavyweight cruizer weight challengers. However Floyd Patterson did well against bigger men than himself. Cleveland Williams cut the ring against Ali but never did what Foreman would do and that was to manhandle his opponents that was the difference. Cleveland Williams fought through the 70's and he beat good jorneymen boxers so this they were half the men is rubbish. Remember Ali was faster and not heavy
MrTClubber 2 years ago
Clueless @MrTClubber doesn't know that Cleveland Williams was SHOT IN THE STOMACH at point blank range a year and a half before he 'fought' Ali. The Cleveland Williams Ali 'fought' was missing ten feet of his small intestine, one kidney, and had a shriveled left leg above the knee from nerve damage caused by a fragment of the bullet hitting his spine.
Youtube is truly the Home of the Clueless.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
The way Foreman cut the ring off on Ali, he HAD to take those body shots, plus he couldnt dance for 15 rounds like he used to because he said, " Apart from Sonny Liston, the fighters of the 60s wernt half the fighters of the 70s." Imagine if it was Mike Tyson instead of Foreman !
truthhitmanisback 2 years ago
Tyson wasnt near the fighter Ali was in skills or brains or guts.
mbhotie715 2 years ago 5
@mbhotie715 I totally agree with you, but its nice to see other people say so many good thing about Ali. Muhammad Ali would of hurt Tyson !
truthhitmanisback 2 years ago
@mbhotie715 good on u
vik585 1 year ago
@mbhotie715 But at 21 he matched with speed elusiveness and more power.since frazier and norton gave ali fits 3 times both,a 21 yr old tyson would be alis nightmare.
fadethetrade 2 months ago
@truthhitmanisback:
Tyson is too short and predictable to beat Ali. Tyson couldn't even deal with Douglas or Holyfield, so it's hard for me to imagine Tyson beating Ali. Ali blocked and ducked Foreman's blows in Zaire. At that time, Foreman was too wild and undisciplined, and it cost him in Zaire.
tw69hands2 1 year ago 2
Some people are so ignorant.
Ali. Greatest of all times.
M1CF1N 2 years ago 26
everyone avoided zora folley in the 60's including uncle joke frazier
ricflarefucknsucks 2 years ago
And when would you have proposed this match? 1965-1967 when Frazier was only a two-year pro, or post 1967 when Folley was thoroughly over the hill and irrelevant?
Remind me, which former major contender and 10+ year pro did Ali face in the first 2 years of his career?
My god, your hate for Frazier seems to have no bounds. Almost as boundless as your idiocy.
Ray192 2 years ago 2
I wouldn't let young Ricky's ramblings worry you. He's a teenage remedial outcast who's never even had a pillow fight, let alone ever set foot in the ring. He's just wet weenie in reality and wouldn't dare mouth off on the streets or in the gym the way he does behind his PC.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
AND YOU'RE JUST AS PUCCI 2 YOUNG RICKY
NyCellaDwella1 2 years ago
Foreman never recovered after the Ali fight and never was able to climb back to mountain top til he was forty (if you can call it that). That's why there was no rematch. Besides the fact that he didn't even know what happened in the fight after the third round. I suggest everyone stop arguing with an idiot who like to prance about saying the same thing over and over again as if it were the gospel that makes him right.
onedaymonk 2 years ago 4
Foreman assuredly did want a rematch. He went 5-0 with KOs in his comeback after Zaire and was calling out Ali every chance he got. Ali on the other hand would never commit to a second go with George, preferring to focus on his bum of every other month club.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Foreman didn't fight again til 76 when Ali beat him in 74, by that time Ali was out of his prime and Ali had rematches with Frazier and Norton instead, after those matches he was well out of his prime so i don't blame him for not fight Foreman, i think he should have retired earlier, although that said Foreman lost to Jimmy Young in 77 and Ali beat Young in 76
siwooot 2 years ago 8
Ali also had fights with Wepner, Dunn, Coopman and Evangelista between 74-77. Why couldn't Foreman have filled in for one of those? Bugner, Lyle and Young were not ranked above Foreman either, but they got title shots too.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Foreman never fought anyone in after the fight with ali till 76, mabey it was Foreman who didn't want to fight till 76 or later, like i said Ali was out of his prime so of course he wouldn't fight Foreman at that time.
siwooot 2 years ago
Comment removed
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
@FlaviusConstantius conveniently forgets the ass-whipping Jimmy Young gave Ali in 1976.
lol
marcxopoco 2 months ago
Ali did get a controversial decison against Young but I think Young actually won the fight.
Midnightrambler3760 2 years ago
The irony is that the Foreman fight was the one that did Ali the most long term damage. Those body shots he took were brutal, but Ali was too tough for his own good. He was never quite the same after that.
LastTrumpets7 2 years ago 3
what irony?
purp13hayz3 2 years ago
The fact that his ability to take those brutal shots won him the fight, but was also the single biggest reason for his subsequent physical condition.
LastTrumpets7 2 years ago
@LastTrumpets7 - No the Frazier fight in Manila was worse.
Boxinglad123 2 years ago
@LastTrumpets7 No it wasnt the one that done the damge were after foreman .. foreman was a relatively light fight compared to his next few.. he took body shots with ease it was the headshots later on with holmes e.t.c that buggered ali totally
calbo555 1 year ago
@siwooot says Ali "beat" Jimmy Young.
Clueless siwoot is the only person who thinks so.
Young gave poor Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons.
For 15 rounds.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@siwooot says Ali beat Jimmy Young.
siwoot also thinks the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco wow you even wrote two comments just to say that, you're a douche
siwooot 7 months ago
@siwooot wrote that Ali "beat" Jimmy Young.
siwoot writes trash.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
Jimmy Young gave both Foreman and Ali ass-whippings.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
"if truculent means kickin' whitey's ass...I'm that..."
JacksonPerdue 2 years ago
Folley was black not white. so he actually kicked "blackey's ass" Jackson.
iamtman1 2 years ago
Alì's superiority on Folley is almost embarassing. Great great boxer.
magisquam 2 years ago
@magisquam
Cassius Clay, aka Cassius X (still his legal name) did look good against Folley. Then, X fought Jerry Quarry like a girl and Bonavena like a street fighter. Anyone else would have been dq'd vs Bonavena but not X. It remains, next to Cooper I, the most disgraceful performance by X.
lumpagogo 1 year ago
@lumpagogo no it still is not his legal name you moron, he had it changed in the courts! get your facts straight!
rizzi2007 1 year ago
look how fast Ali is thos right hands are supernatural in the 7th round the fight commentator is talk while Ali knocked him out he didint even see it coming
Sinco1967 2 years ago
Doug Jones knocked out Folley in 7 rounds.
Alehandro Lavaronte knocked out Folley in 7 rounds.
But nobody did cartwheels when they knocked out Folley in the exact same round Ali did.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
what i think is that Ali stood rite on top of them when they were down first of all to let them no who was the best, and second to give em time to recuperate so that he could carry on the ass whopping when he had to teach em a lesson.
traningday 3 years ago
Hard ass Ali!!!
Yay! I found him! \o/
OOFUJISAN 3 years ago
HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHAMP! Ali=G.O.A.T.
theonlysaltspring 3 years ago
It was Floyd Patterson who ducked Williams and Foley, when both of them were at their peak.
Ptrgamb 3 years ago
I agree with the Williams part - Foley not so much. I don;t think there was a lot of interest in that fight. Patterson fought Liston almost right after the Johanssen fights
atowersshaw 2 years ago
ALi is crafty. He continually ducked Zora Folley and Cleveland Williams until both of them had deteriorated.
sonofthedestroyer 3 years ago
ali never ducked anybody, he challenged an in prime sonny liston and an in prime george foreman and beat them both and they were better fighters than folley and williams better by a mile
dazza2610 2 years ago
Liston was not in his prime. He was already old. 5 years older than his official birth. Also the fights against Liston was fixed
sonofthedestroyer 2 years ago
ha ha i suppose the fight he had with foreman was fixed too was it?
dazza2610 2 years ago 3
tyson beat nobody he lost every big fight he ever fought
dazza2610 2 years ago 5
Haha what a tool. If Sonny wasn't in his prime when was his prime? Sonny had just come off of his two destructions of Patterson and it was the only time during his career Sonny would be HW champ. Ali kicked his ass fair and square and is without a doubt one of the greatest ever. You shit on Ali and then talk about the greatness of Tyson, it's really hilarious.
sportsfan46 2 years ago
@sportsfan46 can't face the fact that his hero Ali had two fixed fights with Liston.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
Ali ducked Foreman for 4-years in the 70's. Do you think anybody could get away with not fighting the number one contender for 4-years now?
atowersshaw 2 years ago
ha ha that shows how little knowledge you have, its a well known fact foreman became the number 1 contender in 71, just when ali returned to the sport and when frazier was champion not ali, so how could he have ducked him in the 70s when he wasnt even the champ frazier was
dazza2610 2 years ago
That is shockingly stupid. Ali won the title from Foreman in October of '74, and was champion from then until losing to Spinks in '78. Ali was champ in the 70's longer than Frazier, Foreman, Spinks & Holmes.
Foreman was the number one contender after Ali beat him, and remained so untl '77 when lost to Jimmy Young.
Did you really not know Ali was champ twice in the 70's? Or did you not know Foreman was the #1 after he lost in Zaire? Either way , not good
atowersshaw 2 years ago
he didn't duck him, george foreman later admitted that ali would have beaten him again
Boxinglad123 2 years ago
Then why didn't he fight him again? Foreman wanted the fight, the fans wanted the fight, it would've been the highest paying fight of the time. At the time Foreman was itching to fight him, never mind what he might say now.
This is the same guy who was shrieking after losing to Fraizer in 71 about a return bout and the media dutifully reported everything he said. You can al it what you want, but not fighting the #1 guy for four years is ducking him.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
foreman wasnt the top guy then though he was downhill after zaire
Boxinglad123 2 years ago
Of course he was - it wasn't Frazier, and it sure wasn't Norton until '77. Who was number one if not Foreman? Just as Liston was number one after Ali beat him, Foreman was number one until the Young fight. He knocked otu everyone of the top contenders - he was the big money fight. Ali fooled him once, he didn;t have the tools left to do it again.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
Ali never ducked Foreman. After his loss to Ali, Foreman went into a year long depression. When he came back he fought those 5 clowns in 1 night. Ali was busy fighting Frazier in Manila, Norton in NY, and before that Lyle in Vegas. Foreman almost got ko'd in his 1st "real fight" back by Lyle, and then beat Frazier in fight 2. Only then was he even quoted as saying he wanted a rematch w Ali. Then George blew it by losing to Jimmy Young. Ali never ducked anyone. Even after he was totally washed up
iamtman1 2 years ago
Foreman was on the cover of SI wanting a rematch with Ali - it's a very well know story. It was the biggest fight out there at the time. I assume you are old enough to remember, there wasn;t even that mucy interest in the third Frzier fight, sicne nobody gave him much of a chance going in.
Foreman was the number one contender, and the champion did not fight him for three years. That's ducking, plain and simple. Ali fans only see things the way he wants them to see them. Facts don't count
atowersshaw 2 years ago
Ali made it clear Foreman had to earn right to fight for title again. Don't forget Frazier refused to give Ali rematch immediatley after 1st fight as well. Ali was certainly not scared of george. He (Foreman) was tailor made for Ali. Even Jimmy Young a few yrs later showed slick boxers owned Foreman. Sluggers who came straight at him, he killed. Not untli Foreman beat Frazier in fight 2 did he earn the right to even ask 4 a rematch in my view. Ali wasn't "ducking" a guy he knew he could handle.
iamtman1 2 years ago
Ali can make clear whatever he wants - the title holder does not determine who is qualified to fight. That statement alone indicates he was ducking him. How can you not fight the #1contender for your entire 4-year term as heavyweight champion. Facts are facts. Do you really think he and his people would turn down the most money they would have ever seen, becuase Foreman had not "earned" the fight? He fought Antonio Inoki! Wepner, Coopman, the list goes on. C'mon.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
Ali fought Wepner right after he schooled Foreman. And he fought Coopman righta after he beat Frazier in Manila. Those are called "breathers". Easy fights which he was entitled to have right after beating Foreman and Frazier. Foreman "fought" that Puerto Rican guy Roman after he beat Frazier. Every great has a few soft touches. Joe Louis did it a'lot(bum of the month). Frazier defended vs Daniels, and Stanton. Sure Ali had some softies he fought, but overall noone fought and beat better fighters
iamtman1 2 years ago
Fraizer wasn;t entitled to it, Foreman wasn;t entitled to it, and Ali certainly wasn't entitled to it. You're operating under the assumption, Ali should've decided who he would fight. That's what happened but it's wrong. The original point was Ali ducked Foreman becuase he could, and nobody called him on it, as they should have. Not fighting the #1 contender for your entire 4-year term as champion is ducking. What would you call it ? He, and his people, were just milking the title.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
Foreman was "NOT" the no 1 contender all 4 yrs Ali held the title. You are wrong. I have all the Ring and Boxing Illust, and World Boxing mag's of the 60's and 70's contender rankings. How could you say that? In Jan 77 after Foreman lost to Young he wasn't no1 cont. Ali was champ for another 13 mo without George as no 1 cont. Also in mid 1976 Ken Norton was no1 cont. You are wrong again. I know you like George(so do i), but he was not ducked by Ali. If we use your standard every champ ducked.
iamtman1 2 years ago
If you will look above, you will see I say Ali never fought the #1 contedner and make mention of Norton beating Young to get that ranking. I didn;t say Foreman was the #1 contender, I said Ali never fought THE #1 contedner in the 70's, regardless of who that was.
Really, this is pointless going back and forth. Ali never fought the #1 contender, when he was the #1 contender, whether it's Foreman or Norton.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
I haven't been wrong yet - I've been factually correct every time. Look below for the posting, yesterday saying Ali didn;t fight Norton when he was #1 either.
BTW, you know magazines don;t offcially rank fighters. It's the governing bodies that do. Those are the official sanctioning bodies which have the titles. Not Ring magazine and Burt Sugar, and certainly not Boxing Illustrated.
The fact remains he never fought the #1 contender in the 70's - period. Why?
atowersshaw 2 years ago
All those no1 contenders in the 1970's you keep bringing up he beat during that decade. Norton was no1 cont in 77, and Ali had already beaten him the year be4. You can try to number crunch all you want, he fought, and beat every great fighter there was to fight in that decade before he lost in 78. Unless you think he should have fought Sly Stallone (Rocky).
iamtman1 2 years ago
If you wish to believe Ali never fought Foreman again for "legitimate reasons", go ahead.
There is no logical reason. You say Foreman hand't earned the fight? Did Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista, etc?
You say becuase he already knew he would win? Didn't he know that against those stiffs? The money wasn't enough? I think we know that wasn;t the case.
What happened to mandatory title defences? The guy would fight anybody for money, and yet won;t collect the biggest payday ever for him?
atowersshaw 2 years ago
Name one fighter in the 70's Ali didn't face that he should have. Dunn, and Coopman were soft touches, ofcourse. But they were all in between his epic battles with Foreman, Frazier, and Norton. Ali like all great fighters fought great fighters, good fighters, and bums. Why do you single him out? Foreman was his own worst enemy. He almost had a total mental breakdown after Ali ko'd him.
iamtman1 2 years ago
The #1 contender.
If you go the Super Bowl, you still have to play the other team, even if you've beaten them that season. Whether you won before is irrelevant. The champ has to defend once/year against #1. He never did. Tiger Woods still has to play the field no matter how many times he's beaten them. Nadal still has to play the matches at the French even though he's never lost to anybody there - oops, he lost.
He should;ve fought #1, he didn't. It's not about Foreman, it's Ali
atowersshaw 2 years ago
Different sports you can't compare. In tennis its a draw sheet. You play vs whoever is in your half of the draw. Totally different. Also when you beat a team in a super bowl, the losing team is not automatically entitled to a rematch just because they were top contender. You have to earn the right to go back to the superbowl. Foreman didn't. Norton was to be Ali's next opponent had he not lost to Spinks. Stop complaining. Ali was the greatest (in his prime) heavy ever. And always active champ.
iamtman1 2 years ago
At the end of the dfay Ali did not fight the #1 contender in the 70's, and everything else you bring up is moot. There is not a single champion, certainly since then, and after Dempsey who got away with that many years of not fighting #1.
Whether you think he was the best or not is not the point. Whether he would've won is not the point, that is all opinion.
Fact is, he didn't, or wouldn;t. A debate is about facts more than conjecture. You're simply an Ali apologist. Let's move on.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
I'm not an Ali apologist. He doesn't need one. Certainly not when it comes to the competition he fought and beat. Nor to his greatness as a fighter. That he stayed around too long, and go too far in trying to hype fights (Frazier etc) yes. But that he avoided anyone, NO way. If that's the case all heavyweight champs are guilty. And by the way you conveniently leave out 1964-67 when he first held the title. Did he "avoid" no 1 challengers then too?
iamtman1 2 years ago
Of course not in the 60's - he could beat them, and there certainly wasn't anbody the calibre of Foreman, Norton around - ergo the Foley fight.
Look, as simple as I can - He doesn;t fight the #1 - period. You want to argue he was the best ever, go ahead. But you can;'t argue he didn;t fight #1 post '74.
What is your point? He didn't have to? Different rules for him? When you make excuses in the face of facts - definition of apologist. Fighters, even then, were supposed to fight #1's.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
You write that he fought all no1 cont in the 60's because he could beat them. I don't know how to break this to you but he could, and did beat all the no1's in the 70's as well. Frazier, Foreman, and Norton etc.
iamtman1 2 years ago
A fighter only fights a few dozen times in his career. I don't see why Ali is obliged to give Foreman a second fight, when he won the first by knockout. If it was a close decision, then sure. But if he wins by knockout, there are plenty of other fighters that should be given a chance instead.
Would you rather he just fought the same 2 or 3 guys over and over until one of them won? That's kind of silly if you ask me.
powpanda 2 years ago 4
Using your arguement - Patterson gets ko's by Johanssen, yet they fight in a rematch, and in another after another KO.
Clay knocks out Liston, yet they fight a rematch; As recently as Rahman knocking out Lewis, and they fight a rematch. The precendent has been set many, many times.
He was the #1 contender. Ali was obliged, -it's called a mandatory title defence. The inmates don't , or shouldn;t, run the asylum. In this case they did.
atowersshaw 2 years ago
There are always exceptions.
Lewis apparently had lots of excuses (his training schedule being disrupted by making movies) and his performance in the fight was questionable. Johanssen was the first European to bet an American for a title since 1933, so that deserves a rematch. Finally, the first Ali-Liston fight was marred with controversy (chemicals in Ali's eyes, Liston quitting on his stool).
But there was nothing questionable about Ali knocking out Foreman. That was as clean as they come.
powpanda 2 years ago
Comment removed
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Foreman dissapeared for over a yr after he lost to Ali. He went into a depression. Ali hardly fought the bum of the month. In 1975 he fought Lyle, FrazierIII, Bugner, and Wepner. Foreman didn't even attempt a comeback fight (except his 4 bums in 1 night in Canada fiasco). In 77 they would have met after Foreman-FrazierII, but Foreman lost to Jimmy Young. That certainly wasn't Ali's fault. Look how long Ali had to wait for Frazier rematch. Ali fought the greatest collection of fighters overall.
iamtman1 2 years ago 5
Foreman was inactive because he was expecting an immediate rematch. Wepner, Dunn, Coopman, Evangelista were journeymen who didn't deserve title shots. Lyle and Bugner were never ranked above Foreman either.
If Foreman would have faced Ali if he'd beat Young, then why didn't Ali face Young again? Or why did he fight the unranked Spinks instead of a 4th Norton fight? There aren't many holes to pick in Ali's opposition up to 1975. After that methinks he was picking his fights carefully.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Why would he expect immediate rematch? Ali didn't get one for 3 yrs after Frazier I. Louis never gave Braddock one. Holmes never gave Norton one. Foreman himself didn't fight Frazier again after taking his title until both were no longer champs in 1976. Automatic rematches were never guaranteed. Foreman was great puncher, and prob the strongest man ever to hold the title. But his style was made to order for Ali. I doubt Ali ever feared him. But i do think Ali should have retired after 75.
iamtman1 2 years ago
Liston got an immediate rematch with Ali, Ali got immediate rematches with Norton and Spinks. Ali was the king of rematches, even Bugner got one. Yet he never made one which would likely have been the biggest payday of his career, and at a time when he was making lots of gimme type defenses against journeymen.
Dunno how you can say Foreman was made to order for Ali based on one fight. If Ali had never got rematches with Frazier, Norton and Spinks would you now be saying they all had his number?
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
No because Ali proved throughout his career that he could beat all styles. Foreman clearly had trouble with guys who boxed him. I like George by the way. I just don't think Ali was fearful of a rematch. I don't know 100% why there wasn't a rematch, but unless it happened when Ali was 35 or older, the final outcome would have been another Ali win. Foreman was death on sluggers, but not as good when confronted guys who didn't come at him. Styles make fights. Ali was shot by the time of Spinks I,II
iamtman1 2 years ago
Ali also had problems against a wide variety of styles in his career. Given the amount of punishment he took in Zaire, and how dreadful he looked in most of his subsequent outings, I don't see a Foreman rematch as a gimme. There's gotta be a reason why Ali made a lot of defenses against lesser opposition whilst failing to make the biggest fight out there for him after '74.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
@iamtman1 will explain to us why Ali never gave Jimmy Young a rematch after Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons and then beat Lyle and Foreman.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco Young never gave Ali a boxing lesson. Ali was 35yrs old out of shape. He fought poorly that night, young had nothing to do with it. Besides young 6 times in the last 5 rds kept ducking his head out of the ropes to be bailed out by ref. That's no way to take the title from the champ. I still scored that 9-6 Ali. As for your other comments that
jones, norton (2 and 3), and Sheavers beat him, WRONG AGAIN. I have them on dvd Ali won them all i thought! Clearly you are clueless!!
iamtman1 7 months ago
Devout member of The Religion of Ali @iamtman1 regurgitates the standard talking points expected of an Ali worshipper.
Jimmy Young is HATED by members of the Religion of Ali because he exposed Ali as an inferior boxer for FIFTEEN rounds.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco You need help! Young is not "hated by members of the religion of Ali' as you comically write. Young is a footnote in the history of Ali the greatest heavyweight ever. Young lost 10 of 15 rds to a washed up 35 yr old Ali. Ali was never 'exposed' by young as anythng but fat, overconfident and ageing (which happens to all) . That would be like claiming Louis was "exposed' by Ezz charles who shut him out over 15rds. Every1 knows Louis was old/past peak. And remember Ali still beat young
iamtman1 7 months ago
Ali worshipper @iamtman1 lies.
Ali got his ears boxed off by Jimmy Young for fifteen rounds.
He looked like an ass as Young bounced his head around like a speedbag in the gym.
The all black Washington DC crowd booed Ali as he left the ring with his phony 'decision.'
Half-witted member of The Religion of Ali antman also will tell you the Atlantic Ocean is made out of grapefruit juice.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco No you look like an ass! As for the crowd booing him after the Young fight, so what? It was a lousy boring fight! I would have booed as well. That doesn't mean he lost. As for your comment that "all the black Wash dc crowd booing him, last i checked, J.Young was also black. What's your point? I'm not half witted as you said in your last comment. But if i was, it's still half more witted than you apparently are. I'm white, and of European ancestry. Unlike you, i don't hate Ali though
iamtman1 7 months ago
Half-witted antman, the devout Ali worshipper and rabid member of The Religion of Ali, regurgitates the standard Religion of Ali talking points.
Nothing can change the fact that Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons.
The travesty of a "decision" after Young gave Ali a fifteen round ass-whipping was typical of Ali's media hyped career.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco What boxing lesson? You call that a boxing lesson you must learn the def of lesson! Young did nothing but stand there and throw 4 or 5 light jabs a round, and whenever Ali got within 5 ft of him, Young ducked his head outside the ropes(illegall). Ali almost lost to himself that night. Young had very lit to do with it. Decision was just, not a travesty. "Ass whipping' Lol, you call that?? I think you've gotten some of those in your life from others. That's why you make no sense!!
iamtman1 7 months ago
Clueless @iamtman1, the devout Ali worshipper, doesn't have a clue what boxing is.
Ali's pathetic perforrmance against Jimmy Young showed Ali didn't have a clue how to fight a counterpuncher.
Young exposed Ali as the mediocrity he was.
And of course after the fight Ali collected his fake "win" courtesy of the Don King "judges."
Regurgitating Religion of Ali talking points.is as close as half-witted antman will ever get to "boxing."
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco You're such an idiot it's comical! Firstly, i have forgotten more boxing than you will ever know. 2nd, to call Ali as mediocre confirms your idiocy. Then you blab, that Ali didn't have a clue how to fight a counterpuncher. Lol! Again conf your idiocy. In Ali's prime he toyed with sluggers, boxers, counterpunchers as Folley here perf ex. Folley a counterpuncher hopeless against vintage Ali. Arguing with you is like taking candy from a baby. A dumb baby too. Change your name againLOL!
iamtman1 7 months ago
@iamtman1 continues to post talking points from the Religion of Ali.
Ali couldn't hit Jimmy Young to save his life, while Young bounced Ali's head around like it was a speedbag in a gym.
And laughed in Ali's face while he did it.
marcxopoco 7 months ago
@marcxopoco you keep repeating the same nonsense. Don't you have another line. Was Jimmy Young laughing at the fact he won 5 of 15 rounds when he was laughing as you say in Ali's face/ You kp saying he was bouncing Ali's head around. What fight were u watching. Young didn't hit Ali with anything that could have hurt an ant. Nothing! Again, the young fight was all about ali's shape, and age, and overconf, and nothing to do with anything young did.
iamtman1 7 months ago
@iamtman1 cuts and pastes talking points straight from the Religion of Ali.
Dance and grovel for your Ali, antman.
marcxopoco 6 months ago
@iamtman1 Ali had problems when he couldnt get his jab working and when he fought awkward fast fighters.His record is not that good.I had norton winning all three fights,maybe the second,ali squeezed it out but judging from norton and frazier,I still pick a 21 yr old tyson over any ali after 1970.
fadethetrade 2 months ago
@marcxopoco Ali had some problems with some awkaward type quick fighters but ali always seemed to find a way to pull a rabbit out of the hat.When he ko'd foreman,that did it for me.he was amazing,holyfield,bowe and lewis would all lose to foreman of 73-74.
fadethetrade 2 months ago
@iamtman1 omits the ass-whipping Jimmy Young gave Ali.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
@marcxopoco just when i start forgetting how stupid and ignorant u are, you come back and remind me. Thanks for showing me again how clueless u are. Btw why don't u go on the utube sights of fighters you like, instead of making a regular ass of yourself on Ali sights. Why frustrate yourself explaining to us how u think earth is flat?
iamtman1 2 months ago
@iamtman1 is a member of The Religion of Ali.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
BTW, Ali did not fight the winner of the Young-Norton fight, which determined the #1 contender in the fall of '77. Instead he fought Leon Spinks in Feb of '78 .Again ducking the #1 contender. Thats' when the WBC stripped Spinks of thier title and gave it to Norton, since Spinks fought the rematch with Ali
atowersshaw 2 years ago
@Boxinglad123 makes up raw crap.
marcxopoco 2 months ago
Foley was past his best and by the time he fought Ali he had a police bullet lodged in his body , none of this is ALIs fault of course but Z Foley was past his physical best, clearly
brianserious 3 years ago
i don't think your talking about zora folley it was cleveland williams who was shot maybe zora got show i don't know
pakistani4lyfe 3 years ago 3
Ali's old in 1978. try to fight him on the 60's
llsoundwavell 3 years ago
do you think ali could have beat tyson in his prime while ali was in his prime just a question
i382006 3 years ago
of course, tyson would be chasing him around the ring, while ali greased him with the jab
dazza2610 2 years ago
Tyosn would cut off the ring and can duck and weave in like Frazier but hit with far more power. Ali would have to cheat by leaning on ropes at a an angle. But that would only work if the ropes were loosened enough (which is what his team did prior to Foreman).
sonofthedestroyer 2 years ago
how is that cheating u retard if a mans on the ropes hes a sitting target 4 punches, the only reason he lay against the ropes was because he felt all foreman had and it was nothing so he let him punch himself out which he did and clearly wasnt hurt by anything foreman had then he knocked him out cold, i cant believe ur mentioning ali in the same breath as a man who was knocked out cold by a slow unranked 42/1 underdog bum by the name of buster douglas ur the one who is fixed my friend ha ha
dazza2610 2 years ago
read about the people who were in the dressing room with liston after the fight and read what they said about the way his face looked, mentioning muhammed ali as even a match for mike tyson is ridiculous, fuck mike tyson what is he known for? knocking out bums, name me one fighter that was any good who tyson knocked out go on just one?, ali knocked out liston and foreman, the latter of the two foreman had the biggest KO percentage rate of all time, more knockouts than tyson had in his career
dazza2610 2 years ago
razor ruddock...and michael spinks...and larry holmes....now go ahead, make excuses why they were either bums or out of it. the only reason u say theyre bums now is cos tyson beat em down, before tyson these men were considered great fighters, and dnt think about sayin holmes was past it, like that so was tyson when he fough lewis.
queensdamato 2 years ago
hey NeonLeon78 u have a line on what defines a real man do you? You know nothing. What? ..you think YOU are something? Get real son. You know shit!
ssaltspring 3 years ago
and of course he was just a man...so what? what have you done?
ssaltspring 3 years ago
I was there. There was a huge revolution. There was the Viet Nam war and protests. National Guard shooting students. Huge riots and Ali was very much part of that time and part of the changes that affect the very way u live to this day. You bet he's my idol. He stood up to the U.S. government and more. You're too young to understand.not to mention the greatest HW to ever live.
ssaltspring 3 years ago
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restrain 3 years ago
Ali= G.O.A.T.
ssaltspring 3 years ago
No,he is not. Leon Spinks with only 7pro.fights bihind him beat the hell out of Ali.
Besides,Ali talked too stupid. A real man don't talk shit. A real champion speak only with his fists.
Ali was a good fighter,but not a good champion.
NeonLeon78 3 years ago
NeonLeon78 says Ali was a good fighter,but not a good champion. RESPONSE: man, these little twerps should go back and watch WWF. This was/is for real kiddo. ...Ali WAS boxing. Go back to trying to figure out the big bang but to honest I think you're over your limitations of brains. Spinks was in 1978 and Ali had Parkinson's and still came back to be champ. In his prime(pre draft issue)Ali was the best HW ever! Spinks never "beat the hell out of Ali". Ali=G.O.A.T. You know nothing.
ssaltspring 3 years ago