@WestonPDX100 See that's the awesomeness of God. He can use any vessel to do his will, plus I imagine if God only used 'smart' men to write the Bible then there's the risk that they'd claim this work was a result of their own genius or future men would say that the bible was not divinely inspired & should be attributed to the intellect of these smart men. Now if you have a bunch of uneducated farmers & fishermen do the job you know they had to have looked to some divine source for such wisdom
@JudiM It's more likely that the actual authors of the bible were trying to sell their product to the common man, so they made the main characters poor and uneducated.
@WestonPDX100 this comment really examplifies what moonglow38 (above) said - and i don't mean that as an insult. But that's ok because, we are all entitled to our own opinions :)
@JudiM We are asked to take Christianity on faith based on countless levels of hearsay. The authors of the NT are asking us to trust their accounts of events they did not witness, and the characters in their stories are asking them to take the word of Mary Magdeline, a 'sinner'. Accepting any extraordinary claim under these circumstances is not rational.
@WestonPDX100 The NT is not all 2nd hand accounts. Matthew & John were wriiten by 2 of Jesus disciple who knew him before he was crucified. Peter who is the author of 1st & 2nd Peter was also 1 of Jesus' disciples. We are all sinners it's thru accepting Jesus christ we are all saved Rom3:22-25 as was MaryMagd. Paul was converted by Jesus himself after crucifiction Act9:1-22. Saying all of this is irrelevant if you dont have FAITH-you either believe the writers were inspired by God or you don't.
@WestonPDX100 One more thing how do you know everything else in history is true since you were not there personally. After all just like the bible historian get the majority of their info from what was written by those who lived at the time. With your logic we could consider pretty much anything we did not witnessed out ourselves as hearsy.
@JudiM No one knows who wrote the gospels. There is speculation, but no definitive answer. There is evidence that two of the gospels were written by the same person, or that one was copied from the other. Most, if not all human history from 2,000 years ago is 'sketchy' we can't be sure of even major events, much less the day to day activity of an individual. I would also point out that if you are being consistent, you'd have to believe all supernatural accounts if you believe one of them.
@captain2ahab: The man that the bible is written about is Perfect. Gods will is perfect. Who are you to question what God wants us to hear? Your perceived "mistake" may not be a mistake.
@MrSB1274 This is bullshit. Your argumentation is bullshit. in the bible it is written that the sun turns around the earth...which is not true. it just shows, that the bible was written by men, men which thought, the sun would turn around the earth because durong that time, people believed it.
so there is no "it-is-a-riddle-from-god-to men" it is just a book of myths.
@captain2ahab : It wasn't an argument, it was a statement. And the fact that you think its bullshit, is just opinion. Where does the bible say the sun turns around the earth?
The Tanakh/Old Testament also describes a flat earth. It describes the creation of a flat circle 'chug' (a 'drawn circle'), not a ball or sphere which is 'dur'. In every Biblical mention of the Earth the word 'chug' is used, yet the Bible never uses it to describe a ball or spheroid, when the correct 'dur' is used.
@captain2ahab: I asked you to describe where the bible says that "the sun turns around the earth." Joshua describes a miracle where god extended the daylight to help Israel destroy its enemies.It doesn't describe the sub turning around the earth in that the sun orbits the earth. If you dont believe God controls everything in the universe, you wont get the point that he can do anything he wishes to that universe. 1 kings 7:23 is not talking about the earth. but the "sea" in solomons temple, OOPS
"So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies"
if i tell something to stop, it means it moved before. so the writers of the fairy tale book thought, that the sun moved (during that time everyone belived that) OOPS this is logical thinking, maybe not your core comptenece
@captain2ahab: So you take a statement that they perceived the sun moving to believe that they thought the sun rotated around the earth? That's a logical fallacy, and you're reaching...If you look at the sky, the sun moves across the sky. If I say that the sun moves across the sky, it doesn't mean I'm saying that the sun rotates around the earth. To come to that conclusion is asinine, and it just proves that you're trying to reinforce your own presuppositions by believing your own false logic
@captain2ahab : Since you are unable to form an argument from your statement that the bible says "the sun turns around the earth" I take that to mean you have no idea what you are talking about....try to use logical argument with evidence next time.
I love how atheists create straw men arguments and then feel great when they refute them. Any decent scholar or even a well versed lay person can refute their childish and ignorant based assertions with ease. Unfortunately, they attack in these online comments to try to tell Christians they are fools as if all Christians are intellectual fools and have never dealt with the big questions they raise. These are no brainer arguments raised by the angry and cowardly. I know, I was once an atheist
@mbabbitt98011:The numerous contradictions in the Bible, the numerous accounts of extreme immorality (killing, murder, rape, pillaging, etc) supposebly either condoned or supported by "God" and the incredibly simplistic anthropomorphic image of "God" (that imo sounds like the imagination of a 4-year-old) in the Bible are enough reasons not to take the Bible seriously at all. There is NO way to make sense of the Bible as a whole. The flaw of Christians is that they don't look at the whole picture
The real issue with the Bible is : 1) The universe makes more sense if you reject what's in the Bible 2) There is no objective proof that any supernatural claim in the bible is true 3) The people who wrote the Bible were primitive and ignorant 4) Greek philosophers predating the New Testament show more insight and rationality 5) The Bible contradicts itself on endless occasions 6) ...
@zenowing : It's not just my position. Those are the only conclusions you can draw when you (1) look at the Bible as a whole and not just cherry-picked parts (2) compare it with other sources from the same era or older (3) compare it with some decent philosophers (say Kant or Spinoza) (4) take a look at the evidence for its supernatural claims (5)... The problem with Christians is that they barely (if at all) do any of this. There are enough sources to back me up on this, from Kant to Dawkins.
If an omnipotent God existed and wanted to tell us about his existence, he would do so in a way that no rational man would have any doubts about it and be absolutely clear about what he wanted. The mere fact that most rational people reject the concept and that those who do believe in such a God disagree on more than they agree, I can say with certainty that either this God doesn't exist or he's a moron not worth worshiping ;-)
@OutOfTheBoxThinker God doesn't have to prove anything to you. He has already told man of His existence, and while He wants all men to come to Him through Christ, the ball is now in your court. "Be still, and KNOW that I am God."
@Frettsy : IF he existed, IF he was omnipotent, IF he was benign and IF he wasn't an utter moron, he would have proven his existence in a way that didn't allow anyone to doubt it. By not doing so, he shows that he doesn't exist, he's not omnipotent, he's not benign or he's a moron. The first option makes most sense especially with regards to the Christian God. Believing in Santa Clause actually makes MORE sense than believing in your God.
@OutOfTheBoxThinker He has physically manifested Himself in the past, yet people still doubt. As I said, He does not have to prove His existence to anyone; in order for EVERYONE to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt, He would have to physically manifest Himself to EVERYONE - and yet, future generations would still deny Him, as they do now.
@Frettsy : "He" has not physically manifested "Himself". Every year, numerous people claim to have been in contact with aliens one way or another, yet that doesn't prove that aliens have manifested themselves. Similarly, just because a bunch of first century texts claim some Jew has risen from the dead and is the son of their imaginary God, that doesn't make it real. You should learn to distinguish fact from fiction.
I have no political ideology. I have no religious affiliation. I hold no dogmas and avoid any kind of prejudice as much as I can. All my views are exclusively based on more than a decade of research in areas varying from biology, mathematics and physics to history, psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc. In my experience, both religious and political leaders are nothing but spin doctors who seek control by pretending they have a clue when they don't
@OutOfTheBoxThinker then your religious affiliation is atheism and your prejudice is against Christ. my views are based on more than two and a half decades of research and experience in all the areas you mentioned. I'm with you on most political leaders, certainly some religious leaders are the same as well, but I don't think sweeping generalizations such as yours are very accurate at all. if you want to see a religious leader that knows his stuff, check out RC Sproul, youtube user LigonierVideo
@Frettsy : 1) atheism isn't a religion but the lack of religion. 2) I'm actually agnostic in between atheism and pantheism. Both perspectives are logically valid and can't be disproven in any way, so I don't favor either view. 3) I reject claims about Jesus divinity because the evidence doesn't support that claim, not because of prejudice. I've encountered pretty much all arguments used by Christian apologists and none is even close to convincing when looking at them unprejudiced and rationally.
Praise God Almighty for your faith in His Son our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ,what a wonderful,uplifting,and blessing you are to us all Brother,.....,God bless you !
There is a huge difference between "inspiration" and "inerrancy". Most British evangelical scholars don't hold to inerrancy and I'd guess the figure is a bit different but maybe not so far in the US. Inerrancy is so elastically defined as to become a pointless doctrine to my mind---we don't need inerrancy to prop up inspiration do we?
The fact is, that if your scriptures said, "and little ants wrote all this working as diligently as you know they do," there simply would be a much smaller following. The issue here is credibility of a perfect source vs. an imperfect source. And getting my 100 dogs to sit once and sit 1000 times in 500 places at 300 different times - well, yes, there's going to be a time it ain't gonna sit - it's called probability. Your argument here is classic strawman.
@yogurtking I know you wrote this comment 6 months ago but I do not understand how this is a classic strawman argument. I do not see where he has misinterpreted the opposing argument and used some similar but more simplistic argument to refuted it. It seems he answered the question given that the bible is filled with mistakes made by men by saying that with God there would be no mistakes made by those men He inspired. Or am I missing something?
@imkluu : If the Bible is filled with imperfection (numerous contradictions, primitive bronze age morality, a very simplistic anthropomorphic concept of a deity and other kinds of nonsense), what reason do we have to take it as anything but a primitive work of mythology other than prejudice as a consequence of relgious indoctrination? There is really no reason to take the Bible seriously when it's so incredibly flawed.
Almighty God, the Big Bang, Evolution, Reincarnation and Pendulum Dowsing are related subjects.
Listening to my selection of short videos will help you come to terms with the Holy Bible and Holy Quran and encourage atheists to reconsider the existence of Almighty God.
I also say if an angel came with the bible and said God wrote this, people would still question it and say, how can we know an angel brought it..how can we know God wrote this? Where is the proof? It would just be the same old thing...no matter how it came it be. People that want to doubt will find ways to do so.
If God wanted his 'word' to be written down. Why did he reveal himself to illiterates in a backwater part of the world?
WestonPDX100 3 months ago
@WestonPDX100 See that's the awesomeness of God. He can use any vessel to do his will, plus I imagine if God only used 'smart' men to write the Bible then there's the risk that they'd claim this work was a result of their own genius or future men would say that the bible was not divinely inspired & should be attributed to the intellect of these smart men. Now if you have a bunch of uneducated farmers & fishermen do the job you know they had to have looked to some divine source for such wisdom
JudiM 1 month ago
@JudiM It's more likely that the actual authors of the bible were trying to sell their product to the common man, so they made the main characters poor and uneducated.
WestonPDX100 1 month ago
@WestonPDX100 this comment really examplifies what moonglow38 (above) said - and i don't mean that as an insult. But that's ok because, we are all entitled to our own opinions :)
JudiM 1 month ago
@JudiM We are asked to take Christianity on faith based on countless levels of hearsay. The authors of the NT are asking us to trust their accounts of events they did not witness, and the characters in their stories are asking them to take the word of Mary Magdeline, a 'sinner'. Accepting any extraordinary claim under these circumstances is not rational.
WestonPDX100 1 month ago
@WestonPDX100 The NT is not all 2nd hand accounts. Matthew & John were wriiten by 2 of Jesus disciple who knew him before he was crucified. Peter who is the author of 1st & 2nd Peter was also 1 of Jesus' disciples. We are all sinners it's thru accepting Jesus christ we are all saved Rom3:22-25 as was MaryMagd. Paul was converted by Jesus himself after crucifiction Act9:1-22. Saying all of this is irrelevant if you dont have FAITH-you either believe the writers were inspired by God or you don't.
JudiM 1 month ago
@WestonPDX100 One more thing how do you know everything else in history is true since you were not there personally. After all just like the bible historian get the majority of their info from what was written by those who lived at the time. With your logic we could consider pretty much anything we did not witnessed out ourselves as hearsy.
JudiM 1 month ago
@JudiM No one knows who wrote the gospels. There is speculation, but no definitive answer. There is evidence that two of the gospels were written by the same person, or that one was copied from the other. Most, if not all human history from 2,000 years ago is 'sketchy' we can't be sure of even major events, much less the day to day activity of an individual. I would also point out that if you are being consistent, you'd have to believe all supernatural accounts if you believe one of them.
WestonPDX100 1 week ago
the bible is full of mistakes
"yes what is the problem"
The problem is, that christians claim, the bible comes from god. god is perfect. there cannot be mistakes
captain2ahab 7 months ago
@captain2ahab: The man that the bible is written about is Perfect. Gods will is perfect. Who are you to question what God wants us to hear? Your perceived "mistake" may not be a mistake.
MrSB1274 6 months ago
@MrSB1274 This is bullshit. Your argumentation is bullshit. in the bible it is written that the sun turns around the earth...which is not true. it just shows, that the bible was written by men, men which thought, the sun would turn around the earth because durong that time, people believed it.
so there is no "it-is-a-riddle-from-god-to men" it is just a book of myths.
captain2ahab 5 months ago
@captain2ahab : It wasn't an argument, it was a statement. And the fact that you think its bullshit, is just opinion. Where does the bible say the sun turns around the earth?
MrSB1274 5 months ago
@MrSB1274 joshua 10: 1-15
and: Kings 7:23.
The Tanakh/Old Testament also describes a flat earth. It describes the creation of a flat circle 'chug' (a 'drawn circle'), not a ball or sphere which is 'dur'. In every Biblical mention of the Earth the word 'chug' is used, yet the Bible never uses it to describe a ball or spheroid, when the correct 'dur' is used.
captain2ahab 5 months ago
@captain2ahab: I asked you to describe where the bible says that "the sun turns around the earth." Joshua describes a miracle where god extended the daylight to help Israel destroy its enemies.It doesn't describe the sub turning around the earth in that the sun orbits the earth. If you dont believe God controls everything in the universe, you wont get the point that he can do anything he wishes to that universe. 1 kings 7:23 is not talking about the earth. but the "sea" in solomons temple, OOPS
MrSB1274 5 months ago
@MrSB1274
"So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies"
if i tell something to stop, it means it moved before. so the writers of the fairy tale book thought, that the sun moved (during that time everyone belived that) OOPS this is logical thinking, maybe not your core comptenece
captain2ahab 5 months ago
@captain2ahab: So you take a statement that they perceived the sun moving to believe that they thought the sun rotated around the earth? That's a logical fallacy, and you're reaching...If you look at the sky, the sun moves across the sky. If I say that the sun moves across the sky, it doesn't mean I'm saying that the sun rotates around the earth. To come to that conclusion is asinine, and it just proves that you're trying to reinforce your own presuppositions by believing your own false logic
MrSB1274 5 months ago
@captain2ahab : Since you are unable to form an argument from your statement that the bible says "the sun turns around the earth" I take that to mean you have no idea what you are talking about....try to use logical argument with evidence next time.
MrSB1274 5 months ago
@MrSB1274 Wow, buddy you don't know your own holy book. Just read about how joshua tells the sun to stop and we can proceed the discussion
captain2ahab 5 months ago
I love how atheists create straw men arguments and then feel great when they refute them. Any decent scholar or even a well versed lay person can refute their childish and ignorant based assertions with ease. Unfortunately, they attack in these online comments to try to tell Christians they are fools as if all Christians are intellectual fools and have never dealt with the big questions they raise. These are no brainer arguments raised by the angry and cowardly. I know, I was once an atheist
mbabbitt98011 11 months ago
@mbabbitt98011:The numerous contradictions in the Bible, the numerous accounts of extreme immorality (killing, murder, rape, pillaging, etc) supposebly either condoned or supported by "God" and the incredibly simplistic anthropomorphic image of "God" (that imo sounds like the imagination of a 4-year-old) in the Bible are enough reasons not to take the Bible seriously at all. There is NO way to make sense of the Bible as a whole. The flaw of Christians is that they don't look at the whole picture
OutOfTheBoxThinker 10 months ago
great vid, I have always explained this issue similarly. I may have to make a video response.
Frettsy 1 year ago
The real issue with the Bible is : 1) The universe makes more sense if you reject what's in the Bible 2) There is no objective proof that any supernatural claim in the bible is true 3) The people who wrote the Bible were primitive and ignorant 4) Greek philosophers predating the New Testament show more insight and rationality 5) The Bible contradicts itself on endless occasions 6) ...
OutOfTheBoxThinker 1 year ago
@OutOfTheBoxThinker You mean - 'your real position on The Bible is...'.
A link to your thesis would be helpful.
zenowing 10 months ago
@zenowing : It's not just my position. Those are the only conclusions you can draw when you (1) look at the Bible as a whole and not just cherry-picked parts (2) compare it with other sources from the same era or older (3) compare it with some decent philosophers (say Kant or Spinoza) (4) take a look at the evidence for its supernatural claims (5)... The problem with Christians is that they barely (if at all) do any of this. There are enough sources to back me up on this, from Kant to Dawkins.
OutOfTheBoxThinker 10 months ago
If an omnipotent God existed and wanted to tell us about his existence, he would do so in a way that no rational man would have any doubts about it and be absolutely clear about what he wanted. The mere fact that most rational people reject the concept and that those who do believe in such a God disagree on more than they agree, I can say with certainty that either this God doesn't exist or he's a moron not worth worshiping ;-)
OutOfTheBoxThinker 1 year ago
@OutOfTheBoxThinker God doesn't have to prove anything to you. He has already told man of His existence, and while He wants all men to come to Him through Christ, the ball is now in your court. "Be still, and KNOW that I am God."
Frettsy 1 year ago
@Frettsy : IF he existed, IF he was omnipotent, IF he was benign and IF he wasn't an utter moron, he would have proven his existence in a way that didn't allow anyone to doubt it. By not doing so, he shows that he doesn't exist, he's not omnipotent, he's not benign or he's a moron. The first option makes most sense especially with regards to the Christian God. Believing in Santa Clause actually makes MORE sense than believing in your God.
OutOfTheBoxThinker 1 year ago
@OutOfTheBoxThinker He has physically manifested Himself in the past, yet people still doubt. As I said, He does not have to prove His existence to anyone; in order for EVERYONE to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt, He would have to physically manifest Himself to EVERYONE - and yet, future generations would still deny Him, as they do now.
Frettsy 1 year ago
@Frettsy : "He" has not physically manifested "Himself". Every year, numerous people claim to have been in contact with aliens one way or another, yet that doesn't prove that aliens have manifested themselves. Similarly, just because a bunch of first century texts claim some Jew has risen from the dead and is the son of their imaginary God, that doesn't make it real. You should learn to distinguish fact from fiction.
OutOfTheBoxThinker 10 months ago
@OutOfTheBoxThinker dude, you Think so Out Of The Box.
Frettsy 10 months ago
@Frettsy : I picked my name for a reason ;-)
I have no political ideology. I have no religious affiliation. I hold no dogmas and avoid any kind of prejudice as much as I can. All my views are exclusively based on more than a decade of research in areas varying from biology, mathematics and physics to history, psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc. In my experience, both religious and political leaders are nothing but spin doctors who seek control by pretending they have a clue when they don't
OutOfTheBoxThinker 10 months ago
@OutOfTheBoxThinker then your religious affiliation is atheism and your prejudice is against Christ. my views are based on more than two and a half decades of research and experience in all the areas you mentioned. I'm with you on most political leaders, certainly some religious leaders are the same as well, but I don't think sweeping generalizations such as yours are very accurate at all. if you want to see a religious leader that knows his stuff, check out RC Sproul, youtube user LigonierVideo
Frettsy 10 months ago
@Frettsy : 1) atheism isn't a religion but the lack of religion. 2) I'm actually agnostic in between atheism and pantheism. Both perspectives are logically valid and can't be disproven in any way, so I don't favor either view. 3) I reject claims about Jesus divinity because the evidence doesn't support that claim, not because of prejudice. I've encountered pretty much all arguments used by Christian apologists and none is even close to convincing when looking at them unprejudiced and rationally.
OutOfTheBoxThinker 10 months ago
Praise God Almighty for your faith in His Son our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ,what a wonderful,uplifting,and blessing you are to us all Brother,.....,God bless you !
darizzle7 1 year ago
There is a huge difference between "inspiration" and "inerrancy". Most British evangelical scholars don't hold to inerrancy and I'd guess the figure is a bit different but maybe not so far in the US. Inerrancy is so elastically defined as to become a pointless doctrine to my mind---we don't need inerrancy to prop up inspiration do we?
philosofeyes 1 year ago
The fact is, that if your scriptures said, "and little ants wrote all this working as diligently as you know they do," there simply would be a much smaller following. The issue here is credibility of a perfect source vs. an imperfect source. And getting my 100 dogs to sit once and sit 1000 times in 500 places at 300 different times - well, yes, there's going to be a time it ain't gonna sit - it's called probability. Your argument here is classic strawman.
yogurtking 1 year ago
@yogurtking I know you wrote this comment 6 months ago but I do not understand how this is a classic strawman argument. I do not see where he has misinterpreted the opposing argument and used some similar but more simplistic argument to refuted it. It seems he answered the question given that the bible is filled with mistakes made by men by saying that with God there would be no mistakes made by those men He inspired. Or am I missing something?
imkluu 1 year ago
@imkluu : If the Bible is filled with imperfection (numerous contradictions, primitive bronze age morality, a very simplistic anthropomorphic concept of a deity and other kinds of nonsense), what reason do we have to take it as anything but a primitive work of mythology other than prejudice as a consequence of relgious indoctrination? There is really no reason to take the Bible seriously when it's so incredibly flawed.
OutOfTheBoxThinker 10 months ago
@yogurtking How is the argument classic strawman?
imkluu 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Almighty God, the Big Bang, Evolution, Reincarnation and Pendulum Dowsing are related subjects.
Listening to my selection of short videos will help you come to terms with the Holy Bible and Holy Quran and encourage atheists to reconsider the existence of Almighty God.
jrnjames1 2 years ago
Comment removed
LasVegasBibleStudy 2 years ago
I also say if an angel came with the bible and said God wrote this, people would still question it and say, how can we know an angel brought it..how can we know God wrote this? Where is the proof? It would just be the same old thing...no matter how it came it be. People that want to doubt will find ways to do so.
moonglow38 2 years ago 7
STR has been really helpful!!
Rechtstudent101 2 years ago 5
AMEN!
Koomo0069 2 years ago 3
Thank you Greg! Im learning a lot listening to you! God Bless you
Armando7654 2 years ago 14
great video
iToyRobot 2 years ago 4