Derren Brown - Win on a Losing Ticket (part 2)

[surfinthetubesdawg]

Taking scavenger hunt digital? Challenge accepted.

[47amishassassin]

derren brown modern day jedi

[pannekoeken2]

its not setup ,its a kind of hypnosis ,look how he smashes his had so convincing and says "WIN"dow.you have to have guts and be very convincing and confident to do it but he can..seen several examples that were 100% not setup.

hes just amazing

[Unshonwe]

Okay guys, no one has answered how Derren did it... How did he do it???

[Jarathe]

Basic hypnosis: The hit knocks their wits off balance with a rush of adrenaline making them open to suggestion.

[sebby1991]

oHHHH JARED VERY NICE HAHA i didnt even notice hes fuckin amazing

[JaredEng]

this is the dog you're looking FOUR...

that's why we came to this WINdow....

[badsalad313]

I don't get it though.. if the computer clearly didn't tell her to pay out, how did they get the money?

[pimpinmyplaya92]

man...hes good

[intermender]

the thing that concerns is that guy actually wanted to do it again, and felt no guilt of remorse about cheating.

[l0lliepop]

i know.

[docshakaloo]

Cheating a business designed to take his money, I say more power to him.

[intermender]

yes that's a good point. Still, he doesn't have to play if he feels like that does he?

If he's going to choose to play, then he is accepting the contract of terms which although biased in favour of profit for the business, is perfectly legitamate.  What he did was not.

So then, whats the point of legal contracts if people are going to decide on their own what is legal AFTER they have KNOWINGLY entered into them?

The honourable thing would be to just not play instead of breaking a contract.

[CrownedKing2]

that is why we went to this WINdow

[sbgrant]

That's why we came to this WINdow

[jazzguitarist19]

kind of quietly say "everything will be ok" and then return to your conversation, like nothing happened. The grabbing of their shoulder makes them freeze up, allowing the words you say to drift into their sub conscious without them realising it. they then go away with a sense of confidence about their interview. it does work and i see how the way explained it sounds quite ridiculous but use your imagaination.

[jazzguitarist19]

The bang does induce confusion and will almost freeze up your mind so to speak. Then as she is in this semi panic stage (exaggeration i know) he says "this is the dog you're looking for" she wont consciously

remember this. its similar to a technique used where if someone is worried about say a job interview. you go to shake their hand whilst still talking, then as they lean in you stop mid convo and grab their shoulder or back of their hand with your other hand, then.... cont..

[joewatts]

*bang* "This is the dog you're looking for."

[noyourenot]

That is correct. It takes years of practice to be as good as him. Do not think you will learn the tricks and manipulate everyone, it's not gonna happen. Think about it: You may know all the rules of a golf game but it does not make you a master at playing golf. That takes years of practice and even then, it may not be enough.

[buybest2424]

its not about genius its about perfecting a craft. hes spent his whole life learning how to manipulate, maybe thats not the right word, but i envy him and want to be him.

[junky360]

no actually he was a devout christian untill his twenties then he started learning how to do this and the church shunned him so he became athiest.

[mattymoomoo01]

so true!

[MedullaPancreas]

he did pre-camera induction on all the tellers and set the anchor to the banging of the window. Than did some more languaging while banging the anchor with his hand.

[thelostkez]

Genius

[korvlada]

what if number 7 wins?

[laplaptop]

don't say what if.

[korvlada]

Huh?

[korvlada]

you stupid? what would he say if the dog number 7 won? is that a hard question for you?

[aimoto]

"these aren't the droids you're looking for"

[korvlada]

This is the dog you looking for

[kingofmilwaukee]

More than just WIN-dow, he also says this is the dog you are looking FOUR!!! H convinces her 4 is the winner when it was actually #1.

[iamcamillus]

he says, thats why we came to this WINDOW !

[kittens34]

omg he is so cheaky he said in the begining i dont do this any more looks like someone used to be a naughty boy derren

[superluser]

I used to work at a convenience store (in the US), and one of the things that I had to do is work the Lotto machine. There's a bar code reader and occasionally a verifier number that you have to enter (for scratch-off tickets so you can't scan them to see if they're winners before you sell them).

You scan the thing and then you pay out what the machine tells you to. If the machine tells you that it's not a winner, you don't pay out. Period. (cont'd)

[superluser]

If the customer says that it's a mistake, you send them to the regional lottery office. The reason being that if your machine hasn't verified the ticket value, you will not get reimbursed. If a cashier paid out on a losing ticket, that would be the last day that that person worked there.

I'm sure that the dog tracks are a little bit more careful about this than lotto machines.

[superluser]

Specifically, I would suspect that most totes are trained to only give out what the machines say, and that if there's ever anything suspicious to call a supervisor to handle it. That's how I was trained. I even had a motto: ``They're certainly not paying me enough to think, so I'm not going to think on the job.''

I would ask Militanthobophobe if totes are indeed trained that way.

[superluser]

Also note that she says that he told her to pay out. He never actually told her to pay out, so she's probably referring to how he told her to pay out before the cameras started rolling.

[Fukkensaved]

I worked for the dog tracks for a few months, and unfortunately, we didn't have a barcode on the tickets to check the tickets like lotto machines. This is definitely possible if you've studied NLP, and the powers of suggestion. It certainly seems absurd when you're watching it, but when you're being suggested upon, it's completely different. There's actually a lot more going on that it seems.

[korvlada]

what if number 7 wins?

[246trinitrotoluene]

the whole point of NLP is to fool the mind

not everyone is fooled, but as you become better at it, you will have greater chance of success.

[SilverIncubus]

As you re-watch this video you may immediately or after a few times notice just how he uses both the confusion technique during a time when their attention becomes overwhelmed by both mental and physical actions and then suggests with authority and using indirect NLP to have her agree with what they are both saying and to even hallucinate them having the winning ticket. Does that make more sense?

[Militanthobophobe]

Sorry no, there's still nowhere for her to get an actual cash figure that he should give him. should he get £10 or $10000 there are so many bet types she won't know.

[Militanthobophobe]

There is a barcode on each ticket that allows the computer to check that ticket against a database of all the tickets issued in the last few weeks to check what money is due on it.

People cannot just lie.

[Militanthobophobe]

Have you ever bet with a tote?

The tote is totalised.

There are no odds on the ticket.

You get the odds when the dogs start running, not when you make the bet.

When the results come in the pool is divided up amongst the winners by the computer.

She does not know what money he is due from the ticket alone.

the computer says what to pay.

this is my job.

have you ever worked as a tote?

[blllllllllleugh]

because it says on the ticket how much is put on and the odds so they know how much to pay out... you cant just go up and say how much you put on or you could lie

[Militanthobophobe]

Something's odd about this one.

I work in a greyhound track as a tote - my waistcoats red not green like the totes in this one.

I used datatote machines like the ones the totes are using in the video but currently my track used scientific games machines.

[Militanthobophobe]

One thing that all the explanations given doesn't address is that when you're a tote (not a bookie) you never do any math or decide how much to hand over.

You take the ticket, run it over the bar code reader and the the screen says how much to pay out or "not a winner"

[Militanthobophobe]

You don't even look at the ticket, it could say dog 4 or dog 24, it doesn't matter, the computer says the winnings on the ticket are 10 euro you hand over 10 to the ticket holder.

I never even look to see what dog won, doesn't matter, I just run it over the scanner.

Sure he might have derailed her train of thought but where did she get the number for how much she should hand over?

[Militanthobophobe]

You're generally not paying out the same ammount all the time since most totes print multiple bets on a single ticket so a series of payouts might go along the lines of:

€2.40,€24,€10,€16.50,€4.80,€4.­80

assuming that the win came in at 2.40 per euro bet.

[Militanthobophobe]

So you don't get into much of a rythm of paying out 10 euro for every ticket you're handed.

So what if he convinces her the ticket's for dog FOR or that it's a WINner.

Computer reads €0.00 in big letters and if she's been working there for more than a month she's stopped listening to who the winners are or what the winnings per euro are since doing so is pointless.

[Militanthobophobe]

He never gives her any suggestion of what amount he's won so how does she decide what to give him?

I hate to say this about Darren Brown but: Setup beforehand.

[thaflash1988]

Maybe, I wonder if the first time he went over he said something like "ok we're just doing a show for channel 4.. go along with us etc".. Maybe maybe not. It's good that we can hear from someone who wrks as a tote :)

[Wh1teNinja69]

@Militanthobophobe uh.. say you bet 10 dollars on a dog with a 4:1 odds of winning. if your dog wins, you get $40.

[jeshua22]

WIN-dow. Brilliant.

[nickTall]

wtf...

[robhemmen]

magic word: WIN do

[gaminkalv]

he didn't say window in the other time he did it.

[robhemmen]

Thats a correct obervation, but he used other words that time(it sounded like):

Knowing.. BANG this is the one you looking for!

[robhemmen]

I meant: DOG

Knowing this is the dog yoü're looking for

[gamedude507]

i think something happens when he hits the wall...because he did it both times

[thaflash1988]

I think its a pattern interrupt. If someone bangs on a window u suddenly think "WTF is going on here".

Induces confusion then instructs them to pay out.

[richardmoores]

I got into a club for free last weekend using Derren Brown's mind trick. I just stared the ticket woman in the eyes and confidently informed her that I've already paid.

[thaflash1988]

didn't she ask to see ur ticket lol

[cranro]

WINdow lol

[poleag]

"Very profitable."

[yodalantern]

hahaha at the end.... Ummm.... YEa XD

LOVE PEACE UNITY RESIST THE NEW WORLD ORDER

[dragonste]

that is just absoluty amazing... i wonder how many ppl are trying to do that now days Haha

[longone999]

it's not a set up for tv you lot... i know someone who was on one of the derren brown shows. it's trick of the mind - he reads people's faces and uses subliminal messages, hypnosis.

[kensmind]

I haven't figured out the entire trick but here's how the FIRST part works. He's used NLP to convince the guy that his winning ticket is USELESS. Remember when he showed the guy HOW NLP works, the guy grabs his elbow, NOT HIS WRIST. Same thing on the first part of the trick. He's got the guy believing his ticket is a losing ticket, a "USELESS" ticket. He's reinforced that word. He then takes the winning ticket over to the window and withdraws the money.

[17Spade]

oooooooohhh.. someone needs to be fired lol.

[VimisiDigitalMedia]

just an educated guess here from my Magician friend... This is shot out of sequence, and then edited to make it appear in the order that we see it. The scanning bar code is altered (torn or creased or stained) to not scan, and that's the reinforcement to the viewer that the ticket is wrong. The ticket is correct, and could even be from a previous race. He's just holding it back to use it for similar odds. It's TV folks!

[scorpio1066]

i keep an open mind - having been on both mckenna and bandlers NLP seminars - however if it were that easy they would by out of business - remember - its all showmanship and TV.

[KMocker]

plus the tickets are scanned in and the register tells you what to pay out- this is not true- he probably slipped her some money or a winning ticket was pulled from his pocket- buy every dog to win and put @1 in top pocket #2 in another etc then swicth ticet when approaching the teller- the scam is on US to buy his stuff.

[lennyhipp]

then why in each case did the teller first say "this is not a winning ticket!"? I don't know how the trick is done, but you're not "on the right track"! [pardon the pun!']

[KMocker]

he is influenceing us to buy his CD DVD's or whatever this is his SCAM on us. There could be a scam at the track that a secret code is bang the window and say this is a winner and payout then the teller says opps I made a mistake but her draw would not match her recipts and she would get fired for stealing- If you try this I bet you get nothing but a manager who points out you are a loser no matter how much baning you do.

[Mameuchup]

I wonder if he's ever paid the ladies back.

[princesslori431]

wtf.

[thaflash1988]

I'd have loved to know what he said when he went to the window on his own :)

It is possible he could have said something like "ok, you know your on TV now, just go along with me" and that's why she smiled (I don't think this happened though) OR she could have just smiled because it was natural for her to do that after becoming confused.

If influence techniques work for something like this, imagine what else it could work for :)

[larkspur]

I agree that the first lady was staged but the second wasn't. He said "this is the dog you're looking FOR"- and the second time around, four is the number of the winning dog. Hearing that could've made her think she read 4 instead of 1.

I can believe that it's possible for this routine to work in real life, but I doubt it would be successful in more than a small percentage of cases.

[Shadowhannyy]

When he goes back to second time to get a payout on the losing ticket, I noticed that she was also kind of hesitant to give the ticket back, like she was waiting for something, and when Derren did the pattern interrupt and said, "This is the dog you're looking for," she smiled(and kept on smiling through the whole thing).

[MysteryGuitarMan]

No man, nobody was in on it. It's all psychology 101.

Well, maybe 201.

[Shadowhannyy]

What I think happened is, in the first video, with the first teller at least, she was "in" on it. Notice how he goes to her to withdraw the money the first time on a losing ticket. She gives him the two quid and that builds up the other guy's confidence.

[cha0t1c0n3]

Not necessarily. Darren could have just went right up to her window, checked his pockets, say something like "nevermind", and returned with 2 quid of his own cash.

That's literally pocket change. Surely Derren could spare 2 quid?

[vinezy123]

The other guy has nothing to do with it, he only adds to the confusion. Derren confuses the lady by using NLP and then gives an order. She becomes sooooooo confused that she is releived by him telling her what she should be doing, and so gives them what he orders! He is amazing, and scary! It just goes to show how easily people can be led by anything! I havnt seen this before, thanx!!

[Shadowhannyy]

Now, the second lady wasn't in on it in my opinion. She didn't hesitate giving the ticket back, she exhibited a confused response when Derren hit the window, etc. I could be wrong, or I could be right, it's just an opinion, so I hope no one jumps down my throat.

[lewiskirby]

vinezy123 you cannot use NLP to confuse someone it doesn't work like that.

[Deganveran]

You have obviously never read "The Februrary Man". NLP can be used to confuse someone and change their desires ect. You just have to know how to do it. SOme NLP masters specialize in confusing and shutting down the mind.

[Thecreatureofthemind]

1. He tell's her that is the winning ticket, because he is looking her in the eye she believes him.

2. Derren hit's his hand on the window both times and says "This is the dog you're looking for. That's why we came to this WIN-dow." He stressed the WIN.

Amazing guy.

[thaflash1988]

Your right about the 2nd one. Derren knows that the guy wont be able to do it before he goes up. When he bangs on the window, she becomes confused so when he says "this is the dog you are looking for" it's taken as a command - all she's doing is looking for the dog that's losing (while she thinks its the one that's won) and by then he's said "WINdow".

In the other video he doesn't say WINdow though so maybe all that's needed is the command.