@rivermikerat Osama Bin Laden has shaved off the beard, changed his name to Barrak Hussain Obama, & got a job working as a puppet in the Whitehouse. The LAST place you'd expect to find him. "The truth is stranger than fiction". PHOTOFIT software used in many court cases can't tell the difference. Even the lines on the palms of their hands are an exact match. Check any photos/videos you can find.
@Galv140577 Yeah. Ok. I think the tinfoil hat designed by Bush doesn't fit too well, man. You might want to loosen it a bit. Or get rid of it completely and come live in the real world for awhile. You might find the change from fantasy refreshing.
@rivermikerat Like fuck you do. It dooesn't take any training to realise that large heavy steel support columns in a very large skyscraper will actually put up a very large amount of RESISTANCE to falling debris & slow it down ~CONSIDERABLY.
@Galv140577 Yes. And, if you watch the video, you can see that they DO, in fact, provide considerable resistance for the first four or five floors. After that, gravity wins. Mother nature being stronger than anything man can design and all.
You do know that those large skyscrapers used to sway by 10-15 feet in heavy winds, right?
@rivermikerat THIS is a simulation. In reality the tower fell 10x quicker. To make a simulation match what ACTUALLY happened you'd need to include explosives in your model
@Galv140577 THIS may have been a simulation. But what the videos of the coverage. IF there were explosives in the building, you'd expect to have witnesses in the thousands to strange wires all over the building, holes in walls, strange burn marks in the drywall, fresh drywall patches, new paint, etc. And not a single person mentioned ANY of that. You'd also expect to see the buildings cleared out for at least a week so that the demolition teams could go in and rig it.
@rivermikerat It's not impossible that they were very sly is it?
You don't seem to grasp the simple fact that the 9/11 attacks were not just one of the biggest grossing globally aired TV productions of all time (yes the media profitted from it & were in on it) it was also one of the greatest thefts of all time. We are talking $TRILLIONS. With that kind of money at their disposal don't you think they could have been sly enough to pull it off. Fact is they did pull it off. Osama IS now Obama!!
The problem with the "demolition conspiracy" is the fact that for the buildings to have been wired for demo, it would have taken months to complete. And if they did it in such a way that none of the workers would notice, it would have been more like a year. They would have had to rip into walls, cut into support columns, emplace demolitions, and then replace drywall, patch, tape and paint. And if you've ever seen new drywall, you know that would have been obvious.
@rivermikerat the buildings were shut down for the first time in their history prior to 911. sniffer dogs were removed and no power for security cameras.
@drewsiboberinski Yes, I know. The security system and building power were both shut down, also. Which means the power to override the magnetic door locks was gone. No control over the magnetic door locks means no access. And, since I'm a state-certified security and access control installer and technician, I feel eminently qualified to make that statement.
Also, if the building was wired for demo, how come none of the witnesses mentioned "weird wiring trailing all over the building." ?
@drewsiboberinski They would have been able to access public areas, but not any of the suites. Remember, those were mostly financial services companies in those buildings. Their computers would have given people access to billions of dollars.
you need to think domino theory and you'll be getting somewhat closer. Unfortunately, most of these conspiracy sims don't take real world occurrences into account. Look for sims produced by the preeminent company in the world on catastrophic building failures: Failure Analysis. They're the best and they describe what most likely happened the best I've seen. Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure what exactly happened in their, structurally.
Wouldn't material from the core tend to build up near the center during this crush down? Wouldn't that eventually cause the top to get off center in some direction or other?
But I have finally noticed it took 83 seconds to come down. That is good. So how did the north tower do it in less than 18? This could get amusing.
This scenario is not intended to indicate the actual 'collapse' time. It includes parameters set to produce a collapse time to enable you to read the enclosed details. The timing is the result of energy deficiencies, which in reality would cause the collapse to halt much earlier in progression. It is artificially allowed to continue.
If you look at the linked video's, you'll find other scenarios. My web-site also goes into further details.
"Wouldn't material from the core tend to build up near the center during this crush down? Wouldn't that eventually cause the top to get off center in some direction or other?"
I think you are quite right, though it's fairly clear that the cap itself in both descents never actually made it anywhere near the ground in any intact form. This in itself raises very serious questions due to the mass of the 'pile driver' being so much reduced.
His approach is valid, though why he is focussed upon a physical rather than virtual model is 'rather odd' to say the least.
I encourage people to watch the video (part 3 only, the rest is a bit redundant) then grab my energetics data. You'll find my model includes many additional and necessary factors.
I should point out that this physics based model is "exactly" to scale in every way.
{{ His approach is valid, though why he is focussed upon a physical rather than virtual model is 'rather odd' to say the least. }}
People that trust computers are hilarious.
I don't see where conservation of momentum is a factor in your spreadsheet. The north tower came down in less than 18 seconds. That means a mass falling from the top had to break the supports and ACCELERATE the mass of every level below. The quantity of steel was not the same on every level of the building.
"I don't see where conservation of momentum is a factor in your spreadsheet."
Conservation of momentum is implemented through the velocity change following addition of the impacted floor mass. (Sheet: Main)
"That means a mass falling from the top had to break the supports and ACCELERATE the mass of every level below"
No. The acceleration of the impacted mass of a single floor only. The supports beneath each floor, if included, are 'broken' upon impact between the cap mass and the next floor.
"The quantity of steel was not the same on every level of the building."
True, and the simulation takes account of that. Absolute masses don't seem to be available, so the steel mass distribution is calculated based on the column thickening from roof to base.
By the way, how can the falling top portion remain intact while the stationary portion below gets crushed? Won't they have to crush each other simultaneously?
So even if we give the top portion an arbitrary 2 to 1 advantage. 13 stories would crush 26 stories before running out of material to crush with. That would leave almost 70 stories still standing.
That is the nice thing about computer physics. It can do the IMPOSSIBLE. It is built on mathematical assumptions and MASS don't do MATH.
"how can the falling top portion remain intact while the stationary portion below gets crushed? Won't they have to crush each other simultaneously?"
In reality, yes. The cap is modelled as a singular mass which does not deform, although an amount of mass loss is permitted.
This assumption acts in favour of continued collapse.
A future version will include modelling the cap in the same form as the tower below (floors and supports). The future version will also include elastic collisions.
"So even if we give the top portion an arbitrary 2 to 1 advantage. 13 stories would crush 26 stories before running out of material to crush with. That would leave almost 70 stories still standing."
It's not quite that simple, but in essence you are correct. The future version will still make assumptions, in that it will limit the extent of the simulation of cap deformation to collapse of the structural supports.
The issue in full modelling is that it rapidly becomes FEA. Not the plan.
"So even if we give the top portion an arbitrary 2 to 1 advantage. 13 stories would crush 26 stories before running out of material to crush with. That would leave almost 70 stories still standing."
It becomes rapidly over-complex to account for the effect of specific sub-structure mass loss when modelling the cap as a deformable entity.
"That is the nice thing about computer physics. It can do the IMPOSSIBLE. It is built on mathematical assumptions and MASS don't do MATH."
Nothing can do the impossible, but I agree that virtual simulations can exhibit behaviours not possible in reality. For example, we can flip the direction of gravity with ease.
However, as long as the limitations are understood, the results of correctly modelled 'reality' are very useful tools in understanding.
Ryan Mackey seems to under the impression that he has contacted me. Whoever he is conversing with, it's not me. I don't approve of JREF, but I notice you have been commenting on the HardFire challenge thread.
Could you direct Ryan to the following forum so he can converse with me directly please:
Elapsed: 83 seconds.
Is this nigger serious ?
Tautoulogic 4 weeks ago
roflmao
Psy0psAgent 2 months ago
Core collums magically disapears... 911 was an inside job.
The911watch 2 months ago
@The911watch 911 was an inside job in that Bush & Co. helped bin Ladin plan it. THAT is all.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat Osama Bin Laden has shaved off the beard, changed his name to Barrak Hussain Obama, & got a job working as a puppet in the Whitehouse. The LAST place you'd expect to find him. "The truth is stranger than fiction". PHOTOFIT software used in many court cases can't tell the difference. Even the lines on the palms of their hands are an exact match. Check any photos/videos you can find.
No "body" was ..."burried at sea"
Galv140577 2 months ago
@Galv140577 Yeah. Ok. I think the tinfoil hat designed by Bush doesn't fit too well, man. You might want to loosen it a bit. Or get rid of it completely and come live in the real world for awhile. You might find the change from fantasy refreshing.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
inside job to terrorise iraq amongst other things. america is corrupt
drewsiboberinski 2 months ago
How do the thick steel core columns just disappear? lol
FAIL
Galv140577 1 year ago
@Galv140577 What thick core steel columns? Look at the blueprints. The structural steel went up the outside, not the center.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat Yes exactly. LOOK at the blueprints. YOU are wrong.
Galv140577 2 months ago
@Galv140577 I HAVE looked at them. Moreover, *I* have the training to understand them. Obviously, YOU don't.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat Like fuck you do. It dooesn't take any training to realise that large heavy steel support columns in a very large skyscraper will actually put up a very large amount of RESISTANCE to falling debris & slow it down ~CONSIDERABLY.
Galv140577 2 months ago
@Galv140577 Yes. And, if you watch the video, you can see that they DO, in fact, provide considerable resistance for the first four or five floors. After that, gravity wins. Mother nature being stronger than anything man can design and all.
You do know that those large skyscrapers used to sway by 10-15 feet in heavy winds, right?
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat THIS is a simulation. In reality the tower fell 10x quicker. To make a simulation match what ACTUALLY happened you'd need to include explosives in your model
Galv140577 2 months ago
@Galv140577 THIS may have been a simulation. But what the videos of the coverage. IF there were explosives in the building, you'd expect to have witnesses in the thousands to strange wires all over the building, holes in walls, strange burn marks in the drywall, fresh drywall patches, new paint, etc. And not a single person mentioned ANY of that. You'd also expect to see the buildings cleared out for at least a week so that the demolition teams could go in and rig it.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat It's not impossible that they were very sly is it?
You don't seem to grasp the simple fact that the 9/11 attacks were not just one of the biggest grossing globally aired TV productions of all time (yes the media profitted from it & were in on it) it was also one of the greatest thefts of all time. We are talking $TRILLIONS. With that kind of money at their disposal don't you think they could have been sly enough to pull it off. Fact is they did pull it off. Osama IS now Obama!!
Galv140577 2 months ago
The problem with the "demolition conspiracy" is the fact that for the buildings to have been wired for demo, it would have taken months to complete. And if they did it in such a way that none of the workers would notice, it would have been more like a year. They would have had to rip into walls, cut into support columns, emplace demolitions, and then replace drywall, patch, tape and paint. And if you've ever seen new drywall, you know that would have been obvious.
rivermikerat 1 year ago
@rivermikerat the buildings were shut down for the first time in their history prior to 911. sniffer dogs were removed and no power for security cameras.
drewsiboberinski 3 months ago
@drewsiboberinski Yes, I know. The security system and building power were both shut down, also. Which means the power to override the magnetic door locks was gone. No control over the magnetic door locks means no access. And, since I'm a state-certified security and access control installer and technician, I feel eminently qualified to make that statement.
Also, if the building was wired for demo, how come none of the witnesses mentioned "weird wiring trailing all over the building." ?
rivermikerat 3 months ago
@rivermikerat Firstly, "magnetic door locks means no access", how did the men in overalls get in to do "maintenance"
Yes, there were witnesses re strange things going on during power down. Watch:
watch?v=rbhZCqNZP2U
drewsiboberinski 3 months ago
@drewsiboberinski They would have been able to access public areas, but not any of the suites. Remember, those were mostly financial services companies in those buildings. Their computers would have given people access to billions of dollars.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat the buildings were half occupied. The infrastructure was out of date. Many floors were empty. Did you watch watch?v=rbhZCqNZP2U
drewsiboberinski 2 months ago
@rivermikerat define "public areas" OMG
drewsiboberinski 2 months ago
@rivermikerat ???
drewsiboberinski 3 months ago
@drewsiboberinski Have you ever seen the process of wiring a building for demo? It takes weeks, not hours.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
@rivermikerat it takes months of preparation:
watch?v=k3DRhwRN06I
drewsiboberinski 2 months ago
you need to think domino theory and you'll be getting somewhat closer. Unfortunately, most of these conspiracy sims don't take real world occurrences into account. Look for sims produced by the preeminent company in the world on catastrophic building failures: Failure Analysis. They're the best and they describe what most likely happened the best I've seen. Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure what exactly happened in their, structurally.
rivermikerat 1 year ago
Wouldn't material from the core tend to build up near the center during this crush down? Wouldn't that eventually cause the top to get off center in some direction or other?
But I have finally noticed it took 83 seconds to come down. That is good. So how did the north tower do it in less than 18? This could get amusing.
psikeyhackr 2 years ago
This scenario is not intended to indicate the actual 'collapse' time. It includes parameters set to produce a collapse time to enable you to read the enclosed details. The timing is the result of energy deficiencies, which in reality would cause the collapse to halt much earlier in progression. It is artificially allowed to continue.
If you look at the linked video's, you'll find other scenarios. My web-site also goes into further details.
femr2 2 years ago
"Wouldn't material from the core tend to build up near the center during this crush down? Wouldn't that eventually cause the top to get off center in some direction or other?"
I think you are quite right, though it's fairly clear that the cap itself in both descents never actually made it anywhere near the ground in any intact form. This in itself raises very serious questions due to the mass of the 'pile driver' being so much reduced.
femr2 2 years ago
@psikeyhackr The core was mostly loosely reinforced concrete. All that dust that covered Manhatten for days? There's your core material.
rivermikerat 2 months ago
So why can't all of the engineering schools physically model that straight down collapse if a plane could really cause that?
Search Youtube for: WTC MIToo
If a skyscraper cannot collapse like that shouldn't the schools that train people to design those buildings know it? Why so much silence?
Ryan Mackey a NASA scientist did a HARDFIRE #3 program discussing a SCALED collapse model. It is in Google video.
psikeyhackr 2 years ago
Please visit the website and grab the energetics calculation spreadsheet.
femr2. ucoz. com
I hope you are aware that all details in this physics based model are very much to scale.
watch?v=LI540LMFj2M
watch?v=Rt0G4iOPkC8
femr2 2 years ago
I think Ryan may be hearing from me soon.
His approach is valid, though why he is focussed upon a physical rather than virtual model is 'rather odd' to say the least.
I encourage people to watch the video (part 3 only, the rest is a bit redundant) then grab my energetics data. You'll find my model includes many additional and necessary factors.
I should point out that this physics based model is "exactly" to scale in every way.
Riiiiight then. I'll get hold of Ryan :o)
femr2 2 years ago
{{ His approach is valid, though why he is focussed upon a physical rather than virtual model is 'rather odd' to say the least. }}
People that trust computers are hilarious.
I don't see where conservation of momentum is a factor in your spreadsheet. The north tower came down in less than 18 seconds. That means a mass falling from the top had to break the supports and ACCELERATE the mass of every level below. The quantity of steel was not the same on every level of the building.
psikeyhackr 2 years ago
"I don't see where conservation of momentum is a factor in your spreadsheet."
Conservation of momentum is implemented through the velocity change following addition of the impacted floor mass. (Sheet: Main)
"That means a mass falling from the top had to break the supports and ACCELERATE the mass of every level below"
No. The acceleration of the impacted mass of a single floor only. The supports beneath each floor, if included, are 'broken' upon impact between the cap mass and the next floor.
femr2 2 years ago
"The quantity of steel was not the same on every level of the building."
True, and the simulation takes account of that. Absolute masses don't seem to be available, so the steel mass distribution is calculated based on the column thickening from roof to base.
femr2 2 years ago
"People that trust computers are hilarious."
Ryan does not seem to have a problem with virtual models (and neither do NIST btw).
He also seems to think he has been in contact with me. He has not. I am still awaiting contact from him here:
femr2. ucoz. com/forum/ 17-19-1
femr2 2 years ago
By the way, how can the falling top portion remain intact while the stationary portion below gets crushed? Won't they have to crush each other simultaneously?
So even if we give the top portion an arbitrary 2 to 1 advantage. 13 stories would crush 26 stories before running out of material to crush with. That would leave almost 70 stories still standing.
That is the nice thing about computer physics. It can do the IMPOSSIBLE. It is built on mathematical assumptions and MASS don't do MATH.
psikeyhackr 2 years ago
"how can the falling top portion remain intact while the stationary portion below gets crushed? Won't they have to crush each other simultaneously?"
In reality, yes. The cap is modelled as a singular mass which does not deform, although an amount of mass loss is permitted.
This assumption acts in favour of continued collapse.
A future version will include modelling the cap in the same form as the tower below (floors and supports). The future version will also include elastic collisions.
femr2 2 years ago
"So even if we give the top portion an arbitrary 2 to 1 advantage. 13 stories would crush 26 stories before running out of material to crush with. That would leave almost 70 stories still standing."
It's not quite that simple, but in essence you are correct. The future version will still make assumptions, in that it will limit the extent of the simulation of cap deformation to collapse of the structural supports.
The issue in full modelling is that it rapidly becomes FEA. Not the plan.
femr2 2 years ago
"So even if we give the top portion an arbitrary 2 to 1 advantage. 13 stories would crush 26 stories before running out of material to crush with. That would leave almost 70 stories still standing."
It becomes rapidly over-complex to account for the effect of specific sub-structure mass loss when modelling the cap as a deformable entity.
Simpler forms will be considered.
femr2 2 years ago
"That is the nice thing about computer physics. It can do the IMPOSSIBLE. It is built on mathematical assumptions and MASS don't do MATH."
Nothing can do the impossible, but I agree that virtual simulations can exhibit behaviours not possible in reality. For example, we can flip the direction of gravity with ease.
However, as long as the limitations are understood, the results of correctly modelled 'reality' are very useful tools in understanding.
femr2 2 years ago
Ryan Mackey seems to under the impression that he has contacted me. Whoever he is conversing with, it's not me. I don't approve of JREF, but I notice you have been commenting on the HardFire challenge thread.
Could you direct Ryan to the following forum so he can converse with me directly please:
femr2. ucoz. com/forum/17-19-1
femr2 2 years ago
Damn Femr. You take the cake here. I've never seen a video customized in this manner. Great design! Thanks for the info.
bweazel 2 years ago
watch?v=-50X5BhYhx0
watch?v=GP01lPIUZTc
watch?v=27vmgy9wAVo
Each video links to 12 others.
I hope they are all of interest to you.
femr2 2 years ago