The Fair Tax will also eliminate the underground economy.People who have a side business and "forget" to claim that on their tax return will ultimately get taxed under The Fair Tax.There seems to be so many misconceptions about The Fair Tax. It comes from not understanding it throughly in the first place. Everyone should read both Fair Tax books and then compare.As for the Flat Tax it is no different than what we have today. It's just one Flat payroll tax across the board.
Have you actually read The Fair Tax books? It does away with every payroll tax that gets withheld from our paychecks today and places a 23% National Retail Sales Tax on "New" Goods and Services. Used products are NOT taxed at all. So we basically can control what we pay in taxes. Naturaly the rich guy will buy more New things so he wil pay more in taxes than a person that only buys used things. As for taxes you pay for groceries The Prebate Check everyone gets should offset the amount in tax pd
Guess what people do with your money when you invest it in their business. They spend it building their business...which means it gets taxed under a fair tax...which means you can't think five minutes in front of you.
Turn down the volume on your video's. I have to rush to turn down my volume. But I want to hear what you have to say. Or maybe you could find a better system to record with. Are you using your computer's video to post up to YouTube or a video?
Also, what value is a dollar to you if you don't spend it. If you have a billion dollars, but are 'so clevar' that you don't spend it, then you likely just have really expensive wallpaper or fire tinder. None of your arguments made sense to me.
You "destroy the flat tax in 2 minutes" yet it took me almost 14 minutes to watch your two videos on it. You're discussing the fair tax, not the flat tax - and the two are not the same - though both are better than what we currently have.
In your scenario where you have a quarter of a billion dollars in 2 years (doubled quarterly), you forgot to mention what would happen if you lost the money in the market. it's gone! Also you're investing in american companies, strengthening the economy.
So you make 1/4 of a billion dollars in capital gains. So what? you are not spending it on yourself. All of your capital gains goes back into investing in American companies (buying more stock), or investing in small business or giving out student loans (a savings account) or providing capital to the federal government (treasury bonds). This is precisely why we should have a fair tax in order to encourage this behaviour, and discourage rich people from living an opulent lifestyle.
boredjoewo) You don't get the concept of the flat tax thing at all - in fact if you did, you'd realize that it would make you, as the "rich guy" in the example even MORE rich! It's not designed to screw the rich, and raise up the poor at all. It also has nothing to do with your property or "living like a "$30,000 guy," since the tax would be at the RETAIL level only. So if you started with a million, you'd keep it. Duh! Why should you be penalized for figuring out how to do better in life?
Double my money every quarter :) Wow! Cool! Fantastic! Can let me know where this investment is? I bought gold 3 years ago and its only doubled in price.
Look, no tax is good nor bad, just for the most part necessary. So why don't you post your w2 and your SS number so I can see it? The answer from all but the stupid is, it's none of my business. BUT you send the same info to complete strangers in the government.
We need to change it. Almost anything else is better than what we have now.
I think it's more likely that I'll grow a 3rd arm and choke myself with it, than if a 7-figure annual earner only spend 30k a year. And it's equally unlikely that any stock investments will show a 25,600% increase in 2 years.
But, that aside, you seem to also forget that savings = credit. You keep your millions in the bank and that is now actual, real credit that is available for others to grow the economy with. It results in low REAL interest rates encouraging business expansion & job growth.
You are an idiot. Read The Fair Tax, first off its not a flat tax second the more money is invested the more jobs there will be, The more jobs the more money (for the poor). You are correct it is bad for the poor in one way it reduces the amount of them. The only problem I see with The Fair Tax is it will attract to much business / manufacturing to our country and we would need to import labor. One of the unseen advantages is The Fair Tax punishes illegal activity by way of a prebate system.
What the hell is your problem ?? Why are you trying to STEAL money from wealthy people ?? If a poor person gets a good idea they can profit as well...could be jealous and spiteful
if you have a flat tax you have to pay 17% on that million that you made not on what you spend but on what you make. You have intentually tried to confused the isssue instead trying to so the real facts. The flat tax makes you pay on what you make not on what you spend.
What a load. As if in your scenario that guy with 30K wouldn't have spent it all under the income tax.
The prebate has the effect of reducing the actual tax rate for the lower income individual while eliminating ALL payroll deductions and matching employer contributions. Leaving the employer with more money for raises and less paperwork.
This would tax the entire underground economy including Illegal Aliens, Drug Dealers, and the Mafia would become taxpayers instead of freeloaders.
You don’t seem to understand that a family earning $30000/ yr now would actually have more buying power with a fair tax. The idea also that the millionaire would live on a $30000 budget is laughable! The problem you have is you think only the evil rich should pay taxes. The fair tax requires all people to be participants in our system but only at your individual rate of consumption. Economic growth would be through the roof! Jobs would be created at an enormous pace since corporate taxes are nil
Under the Fairtax, the income tax will be removed and you will never have to worry about an IRS audit. The IRS can put you in prison or fine you for simple mistakes or errors on your tax returns. The poor can not afford the lawyers the rich have to defend their returns. Do you understand every item or loophole in the current system? I do not know anyone who does. The fairtax is much more fair for the poor, elderly and dumb than the system we have now.
You seem to suggest that the more money you make the more evil you are. Do you think that the government should have access to every dollar that someone makes? The $30,000 a year guy will bring home $30,000 a year. How much is his bring home pay now? Maybe $23,000? The fairtax will eliminate filing taxes. April 15 will just be another day. Non americans will pay into our tax system when they visit or sneak in. Drug dealers and criminals will pay into it as well when anything is bought.
Please understand that the flat-tax and fairtax are two seperate and different tax plans. Under the Fairtax, everyone will get a prebate for the taxes for the basic neccesities of life. Every head of household rich or poor will get a check covering those taxes. In theory, the $30,000 a year guy could live without paying any taxes. The tax will be inclusive. This means that a $100 toaster will cost you $100 and not $123. The millionaire is investing in businesses. This means more jobs.
I think you're confusing the Flat Tax with the FairTax. The only thing that's the same is that they have a constant percentage. Everything else is different. The prebate will totally untax the poverty level poor. Don't be so jealous of people who save their money. They're not hurting anyone. Why do you want to punish them?
As long as capital gains taxes are lower than income or sales taxes, that loophole you talked about of 'living the poor man's life' will always work. It works under our normal system. And the million dollar guy, yes, should make millions of dollars in the stock market if his investments help make better products for the 30,000 people to buy and give him the profits for. He's like a banker, in a sense, lending money through stock purchases, and his income here, like all income, isn't taxed.
The level of tax and government expenditure are fair points to discuss, but whatever tax level is decided on, any one form of taxation dsiprorpotionately affects certain groups according to circumstances more than others. This is the very reason why tax should be spread over a broad range of methods: consumption, income, corporate etc.
Your argument is ridiculous. You are assuming that millionaires wouldn't be large consumers and that the middle class would be. I'm sorry but you are just not being realistic. It's obvious you didn't take any economics classes and if you did then you should probably get your money back.
But you haven't enjoyed the income yet, and when you do you get taxed. In other words, when you add to the economic pot (save/invest) no tax, when you take out of the pot (consumption) you get taxed.
the flat tax is actually a non-progressive consumption tax, I believe what you're referring to is the fair tax. A consumption tax encourages savings and investment. You point to a person not paying taxes on their investment but what does that money do, you act as if investing that money has no beneficial effects on the economy. Say for instance I'm a billionare, and bank my money, it's still providing money for loans to business and people. Why punish productive behavior?
This is one of the most ignorant videos I've seen in a long time. Using his totally unrealistic stock example, if the $30K guy could just save $1K and use the same investment, their $1K would turn into over $250K after just 2 years. The $30K guy would never have to work again!!!! No capital gains tax, so he is free to keep the money. He misses the basic point of a consumption tax... which is that there is no point to have money if you never spend it. When it's spent, taxes are paid.
I'm not sure what investments he's talking about. Double every quarter? I've not come across one of those. Especially one that's sustainable over the long run.
So basically, according to your argument, under the Fairtax, America's employment rate will not only skyrocket, but there will be more jobs than there are people to fill them.
That means that business's will literally be competing for your employment.
If someone isn't happy making 30k, they will suddenly find themselves with more opportunity than ever to raise their standard of living.
If your right, business's will even pay for more people's school, just to fill their job positions.
You are confusing "flat tax" with "consumption/fair tax". Flat tax would not remove the IRS, it would only remove deductions and everyone would pay about 17%. Consumption tax is the tax where you pay 23% on all goods and services with food being rebated. 2ndly, millionaires right now pay hardly any tax via tax loopholes and offshore accounts and businesses. The people that pay all of the tax in America are those that make 300k/yr or less which is roughly 90-95% of the population.
You're forgetting the prebate. Everyone gets a monthly prebate based on household size. The person making $30,000 will end up not paying a penny in taxes, as long as he buys only basic necessities.
Under our current tax system, he has to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes -- which are covered in the revenues from the Fair Tax. Whatever deductions he can declare on his income tax return don't come close to the prebate.
No dumb fuck - he won't pay a penny -- unless he fucking doesnt get sick, pay rent, heat his house, or eat.
You dumb fuck - you idiots would put the highest sales tax on earth - on medical bills,on drugs, on rent, on utlility bills, on car insurance, EVERYTHING you fucking retard. What the fuck if the guy had dental bills? What if his kid got sick fuck face? Your bullshit tax would kick the shit of him idiot.
The Fairtax is absurd con game bullshit. They are NOT serious about passing it -- they know its bullshit.
They know renters will be pissed at hell, cause they pay 50-60% sales tax on their rent. People will be stunned that their utilitiy bill just went up 50%, gas cost 50% more, and medical bills are taxed 50%.
Plus -- its a lie that government can pay itself a high sales tax. Its just crazy.
Fairtax knows all this -- its their con game., They arent about to pass it.
Some people spend a whole hour just looking at the clock waiting for punch out time. Life has taught me that these type of people have a sense of "entitlement" . They have no initiative and cause division and decent among productive people. Once they realize they have to work to get rewarded they act like a victim and nothing seems fair to them. The Fair Tax Plan motivates people to work harder and save more money.
This video makes perfect sense. I mean I see multi-millionares all the time driving their 1998 Honda Civic through my neighborhood to get to the apartment complex down the street.
Spending a million a year is not hard at all if you have the money. A $30million house, a $100k car, a boat, parties, vacations.
Please don't let your wealth envy and jealousy of others success skew your argument.
And even if for some strange reason, the money never gets spent, great. It is still increasing the tax base by increasing GDP.
Also, you mentioned money going to China. Well, right now we can import stuff from China at almost no cost. Because our corporate income taxes are so high, US producers are put at a disadvantage by our tax system. Through this new system, all goods (imported or domestic) get taxed. AND, exported goods (not consumed here) do NOT get taxed. This further helps our economy.
Now the 1 million guy in the new system. Like you said, this person has a choice: save or spend.
If he spends, he pays a tax. If he does not spend he invests (the means of investment is not too relevant). When he does this, he helps our economy by creating new jobs, producing more, etc ... We do not tax him for helping the economy.
Now why do I know he will spend eventually: Because people do not make money to look at their bank balances. He or his children, or grandchildren WILL spend sometime.
Ok.ay. Let analyze your points. But first let's take your example and look at the current system.
Under the current system, the guy making 30K a year is a salaried worker. He pays a 7.2% payroll tax. In addition, he pays 15% income tax on his taxable income (which is about 21000). i.e. he pays about 5K in taxes. Plus his employer pays another 7.2% payroll tax (which essentially comes out of his salary).
Now the 1 million guy. There's a very good chance he does not make 1 million from a salary. He probably owns a business or something. Let's take a real life example. Steve Jobs (nothing against him).
Steve Jobs make a salary of $1 per year. He pays 7 pennies a year in payroll taxes. His wealth comes from the fact that owns billion of dollars of Apple stock. This does not get taxed until he sells. When he sells it gets taxed at 15% (cap gains). So under the current system, the 30K guy pays more.
Now the Fair Tax. In this system, the 30K guy gets his 5K back, plus he gets about $3k in a rebate. Even if prices did not go down 1 cent (i.e. a 23% tax was just added) he is still better off. But the truth is that there is a hidden corporate income tax that gets passed onto consumers. When this get's removed competitive forces will force companies to lower prices, basically bringing them back to their old levels. Now the 30K guy has 8K more, he can whatever he likes with it (invest or spend).
First, off to tell you how the FAIR TAX ( you are talking about the fair tax, not the flat tax, and you don't even know it! proves how informed you are!) benefits the poor, they receive a check every week from the federal goverment reiumbusing them for living expenses ( food, necessities) based on the # of tennants in a household. They essentially pay NO federal tax on anything they need to live. therefore, the only time they pay taxes would be on lifestyle. This enables poor to invest.
You REALLY need to go back and study the FairTax.... It's not even worth shooting your points down one by one until you know what you're talking about.
agreed with mhalavo.Boredjoewo,you are operating under the asumption that the millionaire does not deserve the money he earned, simply because he makes more than the other guy. Hell, if the poor guy could do the same as the millionaire and invest im sure he would. The 30k guy keeps all 100% of his check that he didn't have before ( minus any state/local income tax). It's clear the only real issue you have with the "fair tax" (not the "flat tax")is that it does not punish wealth and achievemnent
Your scenario is possible, but highly unlikely. Human nature is a powerful thing, and most people with a lot of money spend a lot of money. Not to mention more savings and investment is a good thing. More money in the marketplace does a lot more good than more money in hands of the government via taxes.
Anyways, people take you more seriously is you labelled your videos correctly. You're talking about a Fair Tax, not a Flat Tax.
If you want facts on how this plan benefits people who are not rich, read the freaking book you idiot. If you read the book, you would not have wasted your time making this video because you would know.
Because the 23-percent FairTax rate of $0.23 on every dollar spent is not imposed on necessities, an individual spending $30,000 pays an effective tax rate of only 15.5 percent, not 23 percent. That same individual will pay 17.3 percent of his or her income to federal taxes under current law.
Here is how the Fair Tax is fair to the poor. They take home ALL of their paycheck. They get a prebate check every month, giving them back the money they spent in taxes. Everything costs the same as it does now because there is no longer an imbedded tax in products and services like there is today.
Unless the rich ar eputting ALL of their money in a shoe box under the bed, they're saved money is still working for the economy. The banks use that money to give out loans to other people that will spend it on houses, cars, businesses, home improvements, etc.
Your logic is dependant on something that is totally untrue. If you make a million a year, you can easily spend more than a hundred grand in that year. Look at the movie stars in this country and how much they spend. It is a FACT that people with more money spend more money. Therefore they pay more taxes than the poor do. The poor will get all or most of it back, just like they do today. The rich will contunue to spend and invest in business that makes them more money.
If you have all that money, as a human, you are not going to stay at $30,000 per year to live. That would not be natural. You will eventually spend it. When you do, you will pay the tax. You pay taxes on your dozen or so cars, multi-million dollar house, etc. You are not going to stay at $30,000 per year.
The only way people can disagree with the Fair Tax is because of a lack of knowledge on what is proposes. It is not a reduction or increase in taxes. It is simply a way to afford the government in a different way. PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF. You don't have to wait for someone on YouTube!
I became a bilionaire in my video while delaying my taxes several years and it was my option to pay or not. I opted to pay at the same rate as a $30,000 income person for several years...or a $80,000 person while I made millions. What if I dont stop? When will I pay my taxes if I am a miser? What will the military do with a huge drop in taxes for 3-4 years? $0 for the military? $0 for social programs? I would hoarde my cash until my bank account burst then spend like a miser. Fair? No!
Why would anyone work so hard to make all those millions and never spend it. $0 for the military and social programs IF every rich person lives like you say they would. That will never happen.
There won't be a drop. There will be an incerase. this will make exports to other countries cheaper because it will eliminate the embedded 23% tax on our exports creating more and better jobs here.
It will tax the entire underground economy. Illegals and Mafia alike will have to pay taxes.
Right now, under the income tax, you are subsidizing the mafia.
@boredjoewo It is fair in that it does not tax your income,( unconstitutional ). How is it fair to tax on what you have worked for? Example if I Fix your car I have traded my knowledge, Skill, and time for your skill and knowledge, and time we are even no profit was made. The Fair Tax also does not double + tax on goods you only pay on new goods so only one tax on an item. The poor usually, or should buy second hand items so they would not be paying no tax on those items. I think thats fair.
@boredjoewo You said "you have paid all of your taxes in full, because you have spent everything... so you have paid your taxes and you have spent everything you have." WHAT! Assuming your stupid scenario is true. The guy making 30k is an idiot for spending it all. (poor planing) The guy who keeps his money in the stock market is allocating funds to businesses, who then use that money to expand and hire new employees. They then allocate the money through purchases, and pay THEIR taxes.
@boredjoewo Second, NAME ONE PERSON who DOUBLES their money EVERY QUARTER, or even every year in the stock market. Next lets assume that it is possible to turn a million dollars into 32 million in such a short time. They can't do anything with it. They cannot liquidize it because the ammount of sell orders would flood what ever this person invested so heavily in, and the stock prices would drop, and become a no some game. leaving the person with little more than a million dollars.
FLAT TAX, It's the FAIR tax, get it right. If you are going attempt a feeble minded attack on it, then you're going to have to put forth better arguments than these. You stammer to say Flat-Fair-Fair tax, you seem to know little of basic stock exchange and overall economics. Get yourself a good ol' Thomas Sowell book and educate yourself on basic economics.
@hurricannamedditka Fairtax is a farce, -- read their fine print. Besides the massive tax on people -- on rent, on food, on utilities, on everything -- its a massive tax on city and state governments. Your city, your county, your state, will have to pay massive taxes on every dime they spend. That may sound great to you, but
1) they hide this
2) they hide this
3) they hide this
4) city and states would have to raise massive revenue to pay it
Fairtax is perversly named -- its the opposite of fair. What's fair about putting the highest sales tax on earth -- on renters? Why the hell should renters pay the highest sales tax ON EARTH on their rent? WHy? Home owners dont have to pay the fairtax on house payment -- but renters would pay through the nose. Fair my ass.
Whats fair about cancer victims having to pay the highest sales tax on earth, on their chemo and surgery? Nursing home patients would get clobbered with this idiocy too
Here is how the poor are benefiting from you not paying your taxes but investing in stocks:
While your money is being invested, it is allowing businesses to use the money to expand and grow... this growth creates more jobs, giving the poor higher pay. The higher pay, allows them the opportunity to invest - or blow it on luxuries.
As long as you're not hiding your money, it's being productive to the economy - and everyone benefits.
You don't have a clue what's really wrong with Fairtax - but you know its stupid. Thats a start.
But you don't even know what a flat tax is. You keep saying flat tax. Flat tax in an income tax. Fairtax is a bogus bullcrapola farce about a sales tax.
Two different things.
Of the two -- flat tax is logical, if unfair. Fairtax is a crock, its wacko unfair, and can't possibly work at all. It would be fun to watch, tho. Its so stupid I would love to watch them try it.
Yes Fairtax is nonsense. BUt its nonsense cause it doesnt work. THe rate would have to be 60% at least.
Google fairtax absurdity -- the consumption tax is stupid. How the hell can a cancer patient, or nursing home patient, pay 50,000 in sales tax on 150,000 operation and chemo?
Plus - the morons at Fairtax want you to believe they can make the federal government pay ITSELF a huge tax. About 500 billion.
Neal Boortz wrote -- "The federal government itself becomes a major taxpayer."
All money spent would be taxed. It does not matter who spends the money. That means the government would also be paying into the tax system. 23% federal sales tax will equil the 33% we pay now on income because people would have more money to spend and more people would be paying taxes. You already pay taxes on operations. It's called an imbedded tax that is included in the price. Learn the facts about the Fair Tax because you, and all Americans would benefit from it.
Your basic complaint is that the rich get richer. But that in itself is not a problem. The problem is to make money flow in such a way that it encourages people to dedicate time of their lives in the most useful fashion. All of your scenarios make money go towards the most profitable endeavors. But profitability is indicative of usefulness. So while you are right about the numbers you haven't shown why that would be a detriment rather than a benefit.
These politicians mock you and your political stupidity. They laugh at you at there fancy cocktail party's with there rich donors. They know you will not take the few hours needed to realize what is really happening. In fact they count on your ignorance and stupidity. The best slaves are the ones that believe they are free.
All of the Federal Income Tax's you pay goes to a Private Bank in the form of interest (profit)on loans to the government. Not one penny goes to the Government, not one fucking penny. In fact this PRIVATE bank is owned by the wealthiest people on the planet. Further more you personally owe them over $70,000.00, and you WILL pay these men...period. You know this bank as the Federal Reserve Bank.
Funny Karl but not substantive.If it is so dumb say something of substance.If you invested like me we would both have a few billion dollars and we would pay as much tax as we want or as little due to our economic circumstance. The poor do not get that option and I get to remove that money almost 100% out of the commerce flow until I acquire as much money as I want. I can basically print money until i reach the sky. How does this benefit society at all? Wouldnt this hurt the military?
Billionaires deserve every penny.Sometimes investors get huge profits from the stock market, but they also undergo a huge amount of risk.Investors provide money that is used for developing new technology and research.When corporations receive a large influx of capital from investors they are able to expand, open factories, etc. This gives poor people an opportunity to get a new job.Boeing gets money from investors.They use the money to develop new fighter jets which are purchased by the military
No one does that! Even if they did put ALL of their money into a bank, that money is used by the bank to give loans to other people to buy a house, or to start a business, or to buy a car. Unless they're putting ALL of their money in a shoe box under the bed, that money is working for the economy and for the people of the USA.
The tax system sucks, it is slowing economic growth, and discriminates against productivity, savings, investment, and family.
SS is a fraud, it is wasting peoples money and slowing economic growth.
We need a Free Choice Flat Tax system and Personal Accounts.
FCFT: 17% rate, 13200 standard exemptions, 4000 child/dep exemption, child tax credit, EITC. No death, capital gains, dividend, etc, tax. Stop complaining about the "rich". Such a tax code would benefit EVERYONE.
How about widespread starvation how about widespread disease how about your house worth less because you live next to a city of huts in America. The weathiest nation ever. Doesnt that sound WRONG at any level to you?No taxes no government doing good just you living in a desert with no roads and no police and no fire department and no ambulance service and no college hospitals and so many things that very little money from all of us provides? Promote the general welfare...where is that from?
boredjoewo Your comment stands as a testament to the stupidity of the American public when it cames to income tax's. You have no idea what you are talking about.
During the worst of violence in NYC (15 years ago) a number of private city-protection organizations were formed. There is also a number of private ambulance companies. First NYC subway system was built privately ILLEGALLY and in secret. You think these services must be provided by the government or they won't exist. The reality is otherwise. First they are created privately, then the government decides to strong arm their way into taking them over.
The bottom line is that me being super rich has the option to pay taxes or not. You being the poor guy do not have that option. And as a result the services that the poor would take advantage of can be killed if my thought were popularised. So the fairness is for me and unfairness for the poor. This will move money up the chain and it will not come back down the chain. Is this part of Ron Paul and other Republican's dream of killing Social Security?
You seem to be missing the concept of the prebate. Everyone gets a check in the mail every month, covering the sales tax up to the poverty line. Live at the poverty line and you don't pay federal taxes. That rule applies if you're a billionaire or live week by week.
would the Fair Tax kill the military if the rich people lived at $30k for a couple of years? I would live at $30k per year for a few and basically pay chump change for taxes. who would pay for all of our upcoming wars Republicans want us to start? BTW doesnt making 1/4 of a billion dollars and not paying any more taxes than you sound fishy? how imbalanced would it have to be before it did? 2 billion or 5 billion with no taxes compared to you with $30,000 and your peanut rebate? Laughable!
PLUS this plan taxes money out of the hands of the masses and helps the top 2%. my 1/4 of a billion would have me buy a few TVs however all of those 6,000 people making $30,000 could buy upwards of 5,000 TVs conservatively for instance. Removing cash from the masses makes our market smaller and hurts business. How does one 1/4 billionaire be more worthy than thousands of people with decent money to a nation that is more MARKET than anything else?Money moves up and it stays there see voodoo econ
The super rich are very mixed on their opinion of the FairTax, it's very polarizing. The super rich don't pay taxes on gains unless those gains are realized (they cash out an investment, to buy something, maybe a different investment... maybe a BMW). Many go years with paying taxes on a profit. When they do liquidate, they usually pay 15% long term capital gains. Under the FairTax, when they go to spend that money, they'll pay 23% on it. A lot of heat on Huckabee comes from the super rich.
No one has addressed the potential quantity of money that the rich would wake out of the taxation equation by keeping their cash in investments and keep them there without paying taxes potentially for generations. I do not see how this is a massive fleecing or even stealing from the nation. ALSO why is it that these people do not want to share with their massive good fortune? To not share when you have plenty defies goodness on many levels religious or moral or practical.
Who's to say that this fictional multi-millionaire doesn't give a large chunk to charity?
The money isn't sitting under a mattress. If he's getting the returns you say he is, he's helping employ countless of working class people. Usually 60% of the gains from capital investment, goes to the user of the capital.
Without capital investment, a skilled carpenter has no tools. What good are his skills without tools? Who reaps the greater reward for those tools?
I didnt. I made $250 million and sat on it for years without morethan $30k in expenses and the taxes associated with that amount. How will the federal government buy boms without my money? How will the federal government exist?
you have to eat, so does every illeagal, tourist, and person in the states. see everyone pays not just the citizens like it is now. i don't know about you but i'm tired of feeding the illeagals.
without the illegals we would have 0 populatrion growth so our "market" would not be growing which would kill our corporations. This is a huge reason why illegals are allowed here. Plus would you want to pay a union Electrician $40/hr to wire your house or an illegal about $10/hr? You dont buy things from China do you? Come on and contradict yourself!!!! do it and make me laugh!!! Hate the illegals and love the Chinese killing our jobs so you have $1 tube socks? hahah laughable!
well i don't know about you but i wouldn't mind a pay raise. it would raise cost (cause and effect) but since your making more it would be about equal to what it is now if illegals weren't allowed now. As for buying from china i really don't have a choice unfortunately since 99.9% of stuff is made there, that's a moot point.
think about this maybe you don't understand the financial backing that the tax payers are paying for now. you pay for there hospital visits, there jail time, housing, and food. So how is are system better now than if fair tax is? were going bankrupt. the fair tax would bring back business's cause they would benefit from the tax burden meaning more jobs.
I agree with you here 100% boredjoewo. I would love to see people pay illegals minimum wage and give them employee benefits. Then we'd see who's complaining about the illegals. These are some of the hardest working people in the United States, and
Why should illegals that don't pay into the tax system get benefits? The Fair Tax would cause them all to pay taxes and if they wanted the benefits or prebate checks, they'd have to become legal. There is no benefit to being illegal.
let me end by saying that this whole American fear of illegals is nothing more than an act of racism. When we refer to illegals we are directly addressing illegal Latin Americans, more specifically Mexicans. Yet we fail to acknowledge all of the Asian or European illegals who come to the US and over stay their visas.
Right! We are talking about illegal Mexicans because they are here illegally by the millions and not paying taxes, taking jobs, filling up the prisons that are paid for with tax dollars.
@boredjoewo If my tube socks cost one dollar as opposed to, say, four dollars, than I'll finance China anyday. Heaven forbid the United States tube sock industry goes broke....
Joe. I can't say I agree with your analysis of the FairTax. I strongly support the FairTax. However, I do agree with you on Universal Health Care. I support HR 676, The United States National Health Care Act, introduced by John Conyers D-Michigan. It's interesting to see that Laurence Kotlikoff, one of the developers of the FairTax also says that to further boost the US economy, a single payer universal health care system is needed. In my opinion HR 676 is the best plan.
You guys mention that the $30k person will see a 5-10% boost which is $1500 to $3000 while I made $250 million!!! How much tax do you want to pay then you spend that or in my video scenario dont.This is a Socialistic movement of cash from the poor to the rich. Just as the bank bailout was a Socialistic bailout of banks by the taxpayer. Protect the billionaires! The Fair Tax is neither because the poor see unavoidable taxes while the rich can avoide them optionally.I did
Let's look at the single parent earning $30k and spending it all. Under the current proposed FairTax, after prebate, their effective tax rate is 12.5%. Let's assume this person pays no income tax, just the regressive 7.5% FICA tax. Under the FairTax, they'd be 5% worse off. However, most of the products they buy are domestically produced (rent, groceries, etc) and have an unknown embedded tax up to 8-22%. So prices will go down. Estimates say they'll be 5-10% better off under the FairTax.
Where does the embedded tax come from? If it is attatched to the product/producer, what's to stop the cost from being put on to the consumer? Why will prices go down?
According to the research done over a 10 year period, the 22% is embedded corporate taxes... corporate taxes passed on to the consumer. Corporations don't pay income taxes. If there is no longer an income tax, the 22% is not passed on to the consumer. The market drives prices down, then add the 23% consumption tax. Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve says that in order to boost our economy and bring jobs back, we need some type of consumption tax instead of the current system.
At the very least employers match the 7.5% FICA on all labor involved in creating their product. Think of a loaf of bread: the baker, the miller producing the flour, the farmer growing the wheat, the company producing the wheat seeds, fertilizer, water, etc. The supply chain is endless, all paying taxes and passing them to the next. Hidden.
Now think about the extra accountants at every level to comply to taxes. The lobbyists to "tweak" the tax system.
My biggest problem with the current tax system is that taxes paid are hidden. The consumer truly has no clue what their total taxes are because of this. A politician could offer the bottom 50% a tax break and instead tax the corporations to make up the difference. At the end of the day, the bottom 50% would pay for that tax break in higher prices at Walmart, it's just hidden.
The same market forces that keep milk (something almost everyone needs) from costing $20 a gallon, will either force lower prices or increased wages. If company A decides to just pocket the difference, company B will see that as an opportunity to gain market share and company B will either lower their prices or increase their wages to attract company A's best employees.
How come the banks involved in the recent meltdown were free market people prior to the meltdown and then when profits at the Bank of America dropped 95% they became Socialists awfully fast and wanted that regulatory bailout. Perfect example of the rich getting richer and the rich being protected while the poor bail out the rich time and time again. The Free Market sounds good until the rich need a crutch then they are Socialists all the way to the bank!
It's funny you should mention that. Why was CountryWide bought by BofA? Because the defaults on bad loans, were actually an asset to BofA under the tax code. WTF? Any tax system that makes incompetence a valued asset is flawed.
Free Market is not the problem here, in a truly free market these companies would have been punished by the market, instead due to government involvement and the tax code they are rewarded.
The Fair Tax will also eliminate the underground economy.People who have a side business and "forget" to claim that on their tax return will ultimately get taxed under The Fair Tax.There seems to be so many misconceptions about The Fair Tax. It comes from not understanding it throughly in the first place. Everyone should read both Fair Tax books and then compare.As for the Flat Tax it is no different than what we have today. It's just one Flat payroll tax across the board.
gcjc41 3 weeks ago
Have you actually read The Fair Tax books? It does away with every payroll tax that gets withheld from our paychecks today and places a 23% National Retail Sales Tax on "New" Goods and Services. Used products are NOT taxed at all. So we basically can control what we pay in taxes. Naturaly the rich guy will buy more New things so he wil pay more in taxes than a person that only buys used things. As for taxes you pay for groceries The Prebate Check everyone gets should offset the amount in tax pd
gcjc41 3 weeks ago
Guess what people do with your money when you invest it in their business. They spend it building their business...which means it gets taxed under a fair tax...which means you can't think five minutes in front of you.
SangriaStud28 4 months ago
I don't most people that make one million dollars would spend so little
MrFryMan 5 months ago
Turn down the volume on your video's. I have to rush to turn down my volume. But I want to hear what you have to say. Or maybe you could find a better system to record with. Are you using your computer's video to post up to YouTube or a video?
Writerdust 5 months ago
Also, what value is a dollar to you if you don't spend it. If you have a billion dollars, but are 'so clevar' that you don't spend it, then you likely just have really expensive wallpaper or fire tinder. None of your arguments made sense to me.
AtlasShruggedify 6 months ago
You "destroy the flat tax in 2 minutes" yet it took me almost 14 minutes to watch your two videos on it. You're discussing the fair tax, not the flat tax - and the two are not the same - though both are better than what we currently have.
In your scenario where you have a quarter of a billion dollars in 2 years (doubled quarterly), you forgot to mention what would happen if you lost the money in the market. it's gone! Also you're investing in american companies, strengthening the economy.
AtlasShruggedify 6 months ago
learn to read.
TheRaistlinmajerie 7 months ago
So you make 1/4 of a billion dollars in capital gains. So what? you are not spending it on yourself. All of your capital gains goes back into investing in American companies (buying more stock), or investing in small business or giving out student loans (a savings account) or providing capital to the federal government (treasury bonds). This is precisely why we should have a fair tax in order to encourage this behaviour, and discourage rich people from living an opulent lifestyle.
poonhounds2 8 months ago
But what the Flat Tax does NOT do is screw the poor and let all millionaires go tax free, which is the endless nightmare that we have today.
themredweirdoshow 9 months ago
boredjoewo) You don't get the concept of the flat tax thing at all - in fact if you did, you'd realize that it would make you, as the "rich guy" in the example even MORE rich! It's not designed to screw the rich, and raise up the poor at all. It also has nothing to do with your property or "living like a "$30,000 guy," since the tax would be at the RETAIL level only. So if you started with a million, you'd keep it. Duh! Why should you be penalized for figuring out how to do better in life?
themredweirdoshow 9 months ago
Double my money every quarter :) Wow! Cool! Fantastic! Can let me know where this investment is? I bought gold 3 years ago and its only doubled in price.
Look, no tax is good nor bad, just for the most part necessary. So why don't you post your w2 and your SS number so I can see it? The answer from all but the stupid is, it's none of my business. BUT you send the same info to complete strangers in the government.
We need to change it. Almost anything else is better than what we have now.
dueyftw2 9 months ago
I think it's more likely that I'll grow a 3rd arm and choke myself with it, than if a 7-figure annual earner only spend 30k a year. And it's equally unlikely that any stock investments will show a 25,600% increase in 2 years.
But, that aside, you seem to also forget that savings = credit. You keep your millions in the bank and that is now actual, real credit that is available for others to grow the economy with. It results in low REAL interest rates encouraging business expansion & job growth.
cheesebone82 9 months ago
A flat tax is not a consumption tax. Under a flat tax capital gains would be taxed as income. No one is proposing a "flat fair tax".
notyourfriendbuddy 10 months ago
You are an idiot. Read The Fair Tax, first off its not a flat tax second the more money is invested the more jobs there will be, The more jobs the more money (for the poor). You are correct it is bad for the poor in one way it reduces the amount of them. The only problem I see with The Fair Tax is it will attract to much business / manufacturing to our country and we would need to import labor. One of the unseen advantages is The Fair Tax punishes illegal activity by way of a prebate system.
walthomas 10 months ago
What the hell is your problem ?? Why are you trying to STEAL money from wealthy people ?? If a poor person gets a good idea they can profit as well...could be jealous and spiteful
flauze 10 months ago
I love strawmen!
pkninja47 10 months ago
if you have a flat tax you have to pay 17% on that million that you made not on what you spend but on what you make. You have intentually tried to confused the isssue instead trying to so the real facts. The flat tax makes you pay on what you make not on what you spend.
4evertexan 10 months ago
What a load. As if in your scenario that guy with 30K wouldn't have spent it all under the income tax.
The prebate has the effect of reducing the actual tax rate for the lower income individual while eliminating ALL payroll deductions and matching employer contributions. Leaving the employer with more money for raises and less paperwork.
This would tax the entire underground economy including Illegal Aliens, Drug Dealers, and the Mafia would become taxpayers instead of freeloaders.
theunbubba 11 months ago
You don’t seem to understand that a family earning $30000/ yr now would actually have more buying power with a fair tax. The idea also that the millionaire would live on a $30000 budget is laughable! The problem you have is you think only the evil rich should pay taxes. The fair tax requires all people to be participants in our system but only at your individual rate of consumption. Economic growth would be through the roof! Jobs would be created at an enormous pace since corporate taxes are nil
terleeher 1 year ago
Under the Fairtax, the income tax will be removed and you will never have to worry about an IRS audit. The IRS can put you in prison or fine you for simple mistakes or errors on your tax returns. The poor can not afford the lawyers the rich have to defend their returns. Do you understand every item or loophole in the current system? I do not know anyone who does. The fairtax is much more fair for the poor, elderly and dumb than the system we have now.
dawgs30606 1 year ago
You seem to suggest that the more money you make the more evil you are. Do you think that the government should have access to every dollar that someone makes? The $30,000 a year guy will bring home $30,000 a year. How much is his bring home pay now? Maybe $23,000? The fairtax will eliminate filing taxes. April 15 will just be another day. Non americans will pay into our tax system when they visit or sneak in. Drug dealers and criminals will pay into it as well when anything is bought.
dawgs30606 1 year ago
Please understand that the flat-tax and fairtax are two seperate and different tax plans. Under the Fairtax, everyone will get a prebate for the taxes for the basic neccesities of life. Every head of household rich or poor will get a check covering those taxes. In theory, the $30,000 a year guy could live without paying any taxes. The tax will be inclusive. This means that a $100 toaster will cost you $100 and not $123. The millionaire is investing in businesses. This means more jobs.
dawgs30606 1 year ago
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dawgs30606 1 year ago
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I think you're confusing the Flat Tax with the FairTax. The only thing that's the same is that they have a constant percentage. Everything else is different. The prebate will totally untax the poverty level poor. Don't be so jealous of people who save their money. They're not hurting anyone. Why do you want to punish them?
urgener 1 year ago
As long as capital gains taxes are lower than income or sales taxes, that loophole you talked about of 'living the poor man's life' will always work. It works under our normal system. And the million dollar guy, yes, should make millions of dollars in the stock market if his investments help make better products for the 30,000 people to buy and give him the profits for. He's like a banker, in a sense, lending money through stock purchases, and his income here, like all income, isn't taxed.
TomQuiNEstPasLa 1 year ago
show me someone that makes 1 million a year and only spends 30k a year and I will show you a liar
Zandrof694 1 year ago
The level of tax and government expenditure are fair points to discuss, but whatever tax level is decided on, any one form of taxation dsiprorpotionately affects certain groups according to circumstances more than others. This is the very reason why tax should be spread over a broad range of methods: consumption, income, corporate etc.
DRDFOX 1 year ago
Your argument is ridiculous. You are assuming that millionaires wouldn't be large consumers and that the middle class would be. I'm sorry but you are just not being realistic. It's obvious you didn't take any economics classes and if you did then you should probably get your money back.
mbanderson83 1 year ago
But you haven't enjoyed the income yet, and when you do you get taxed. In other words, when you add to the economic pot (save/invest) no tax, when you take out of the pot (consumption) you get taxed.
What's not to get?
TalonJohn 1 year ago
the flat tax is actually a non-progressive consumption tax, I believe what you're referring to is the fair tax. A consumption tax encourages savings and investment. You point to a person not paying taxes on their investment but what does that money do, you act as if investing that money has no beneficial effects on the economy. Say for instance I'm a billionare, and bank my money, it's still providing money for loans to business and people. Why punish productive behavior?
goatsepr0n 1 year ago
This is one of the most ignorant videos I've seen in a long time. Using his totally unrealistic stock example, if the $30K guy could just save $1K and use the same investment, their $1K would turn into over $250K after just 2 years. The $30K guy would never have to work again!!!! No capital gains tax, so he is free to keep the money. He misses the basic point of a consumption tax... which is that there is no point to have money if you never spend it. When it's spent, taxes are paid.
lucious1224 1 year ago 2
Go read the book called The Fair Tax Book By Neal Boortz. and then make another video after you understand how it will all work.
Cause with the fair tax act the I.R.S. will be no more cause u will pay the only tax that there is and that's the 23% every time you buy something.
TheTwallace2009 1 year ago
I'm not sure what investments he's talking about. Double every quarter? I've not come across one of those. Especially one that's sustainable over the long run.
This isn't a very well constructed argument.
gamerfromcanada 1 year ago
You moron, name one investment that "doubles every quarter".
stam9998 2 years ago
So basically, according to your argument, under the Fairtax, America's employment rate will not only skyrocket, but there will be more jobs than there are people to fill them.
That means that business's will literally be competing for your employment.
If someone isn't happy making 30k, they will suddenly find themselves with more opportunity than ever to raise their standard of living.
If your right, business's will even pay for more people's school, just to fill their job positions.
klivekaiser 2 years ago
You main point is centered on the idea that rich people will invest money like crazy so that they can be even more rich.
Consider this though, Lets say that everyone making over 500k only spend 500k and invests all the rest of it.
That is an insane amount of money suddenly flooding the stock market.
The business receiving that money, will use that to expand their business.
You can only expand so much before you have to create new jobs.
klivekaiser 2 years ago
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jacksmittie 2 years ago
You are confusing "flat tax" with "consumption/fair tax". Flat tax would not remove the IRS, it would only remove deductions and everyone would pay about 17%. Consumption tax is the tax where you pay 23% on all goods and services with food being rebated. 2ndly, millionaires right now pay hardly any tax via tax loopholes and offshore accounts and businesses. The people that pay all of the tax in America are those that make 300k/yr or less which is roughly 90-95% of the population.
georgio941 2 years ago
No dumb ass, Im not "forgetting" the prebate. You forgot that not everyone is a fucking idiot.
So the prebate covers the tax on all necessities? No it doesn't dumb fuck. Rent is a necessity -- so are medical bills, dental bills - utilities--
But your fucking Farce Tax is a huge tax -- the worlds fucking highest sales tax - on RENT. You retard.
Your Farce tax is on ALL medical cost, ALL utility cost, ALL insurance payments, ALL food, ALL fucking everything.
Bullfuckingshit
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
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MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
Prebate --are you fuching kidding me? Gesus you people are stupid.
The fuching prebate is 188 month It doesnt fuching go up or down - -no matter if you have cancer - which would get 50K in sales taxes.
Who the fuch is going to pay 50K in sales taxes on their surgery and chemo?
Here is a clue idiot -- cancer treatment is a fuching necessity if you have cancer.
The whole Fairtax plan is a Magic Pony that shits gold.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
You're forgetting the prebate. Everyone gets a monthly prebate based on household size. The person making $30,000 will end up not paying a penny in taxes, as long as he buys only basic necessities.
Under our current tax system, he has to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes -- which are covered in the revenues from the Fair Tax. Whatever deductions he can declare on his income tax return don't come close to the prebate.
hesdjjim 2 years ago
No dumb fuck - he won't pay a penny -- unless he fucking doesnt get sick, pay rent, heat his house, or eat.
You dumb fuck - you idiots would put the highest sales tax on earth - on medical bills,on drugs, on rent, on utlility bills, on car insurance, EVERYTHING you fucking retard. What the fuck if the guy had dental bills? What if his kid got sick fuck face? Your bullshit tax would kick the shit of him idiot.
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
The Fairtax is absurd con game bullshit. They are NOT serious about passing it -- they know its bullshit.
They know renters will be pissed at hell, cause they pay 50-60% sales tax on their rent. People will be stunned that their utilitiy bill just went up 50%, gas cost 50% more, and medical bills are taxed 50%.
Plus -- its a lie that government can pay itself a high sales tax. Its just crazy.
Fairtax knows all this -- its their con game., They arent about to pass it.
Its pure bs
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
Where do you get that sales tax will be added to renting a home? Did you just make that up so you could try to scare people?
jboritzki 2 years ago
Some people spend a whole hour just looking at the clock waiting for punch out time. Life has taught me that these type of people have a sense of "entitlement" . They have no initiative and cause division and decent among productive people. Once they realize they have to work to get rewarded they act like a victim and nothing seems fair to them. The Fair Tax Plan motivates people to work harder and save more money.
erinandfrankiewest 2 years ago
Fairtax is pure bullshit -- for a lot of reasons.
Just one -- Fairtax pretends it can collect the worlds largest sales tax -- FROM the government, and count that as income TO the government.
Here is a clue -- the government has to PAY it - its therefore not INCOME to itself, retard.
Thats just ONE example of the pure bullshit that Fairtax is.
Fairtax leaders KNOW this. They are lying to theri sheep.
They know a national sales tax would have to be 65% to replace all other taxes
MarkDouglasC 2 years ago
This video makes perfect sense. I mean I see multi-millionares all the time driving their 1998 Honda Civic through my neighborhood to get to the apartment complex down the street.
Spending a million a year is not hard at all if you have the money. A $30million house, a $100k car, a boat, parties, vacations.
Please don't let your wealth envy and jealousy of others success skew your argument.
Your video is really what is laughable.
dkraemer3 3 years ago
And even if for some strange reason, the money never gets spent, great. It is still increasing the tax base by increasing GDP.
Also, you mentioned money going to China. Well, right now we can import stuff from China at almost no cost. Because our corporate income taxes are so high, US producers are put at a disadvantage by our tax system. Through this new system, all goods (imported or domestic) get taxed. AND, exported goods (not consumed here) do NOT get taxed. This further helps our economy.
kkkaaasss1986 3 years ago
Now the 1 million guy in the new system. Like you said, this person has a choice: save or spend.
If he spends, he pays a tax. If he does not spend he invests (the means of investment is not too relevant). When he does this, he helps our economy by creating new jobs, producing more, etc ... We do not tax him for helping the economy.
Now why do I know he will spend eventually: Because people do not make money to look at their bank balances. He or his children, or grandchildren WILL spend sometime.
kkkaaasss1986 3 years ago
Ok.ay. Let analyze your points. But first let's take your example and look at the current system.
Under the current system, the guy making 30K a year is a salaried worker. He pays a 7.2% payroll tax. In addition, he pays 15% income tax on his taxable income (which is about 21000). i.e. he pays about 5K in taxes. Plus his employer pays another 7.2% payroll tax (which essentially comes out of his salary).
kkkaaasss1986 3 years ago
Now the 1 million guy. There's a very good chance he does not make 1 million from a salary. He probably owns a business or something. Let's take a real life example. Steve Jobs (nothing against him).
Steve Jobs make a salary of $1 per year. He pays 7 pennies a year in payroll taxes. His wealth comes from the fact that owns billion of dollars of Apple stock. This does not get taxed until he sells. When he sells it gets taxed at 15% (cap gains). So under the current system, the 30K guy pays more.
kkkaaasss1986 3 years ago
Now the Fair Tax. In this system, the 30K guy gets his 5K back, plus he gets about $3k in a rebate. Even if prices did not go down 1 cent (i.e. a 23% tax was just added) he is still better off. But the truth is that there is a hidden corporate income tax that gets passed onto consumers. When this get's removed competitive forces will force companies to lower prices, basically bringing them back to their old levels. Now the 30K guy has 8K more, he can whatever he likes with it (invest or spend).
kkkaaasss1986 3 years ago
First, off to tell you how the FAIR TAX ( you are talking about the fair tax, not the flat tax, and you don't even know it! proves how informed you are!) benefits the poor, they receive a check every week from the federal goverment reiumbusing them for living expenses ( food, necessities) based on the # of tennants in a household. They essentially pay NO federal tax on anything they need to live. therefore, the only time they pay taxes would be on lifestyle. This enables poor to invest.
coitalyeti 3 years ago
You REALLY need to go back and study the FairTax.... It's not even worth shooting your points down one by one until you know what you're talking about.
mhalavo 3 years ago
agreed with mhalavo.Boredjoewo,you are operating under the asumption that the millionaire does not deserve the money he earned, simply because he makes more than the other guy. Hell, if the poor guy could do the same as the millionaire and invest im sure he would. The 30k guy keeps all 100% of his check that he didn't have before ( minus any state/local income tax). It's clear the only real issue you have with the "fair tax" (not the "flat tax")is that it does not punish wealth and achievemnent
coitalyeti 3 years ago
Your scenario is possible, but highly unlikely. Human nature is a powerful thing, and most people with a lot of money spend a lot of money. Not to mention more savings and investment is a good thing. More money in the marketplace does a lot more good than more money in hands of the government via taxes.
Anyways, people take you more seriously is you labelled your videos correctly. You're talking about a Fair Tax, not a Flat Tax.
Flat Tax = income
Fair Tax = consumption
lastdual 3 years ago
If you want facts on how this plan benefits people who are not rich, read the freaking book you idiot. If you read the book, you would not have wasted your time making this video because you would know.
beluur08 3 years ago
Because the 23-percent FairTax rate of $0.23 on every dollar spent is not imposed on necessities, an individual spending $30,000 pays an effective tax rate of only 15.5 percent, not 23 percent. That same individual will pay 17.3 percent of his or her income to federal taxes under current law.
jboritzki 3 years ago
Here is how the Fair Tax is fair to the poor. They take home ALL of their paycheck. They get a prebate check every month, giving them back the money they spent in taxes. Everything costs the same as it does now because there is no longer an imbedded tax in products and services like there is today.
jboritzki 3 years ago
Unless the rich ar eputting ALL of their money in a shoe box under the bed, they're saved money is still working for the economy. The banks use that money to give out loans to other people that will spend it on houses, cars, businesses, home improvements, etc.
jboritzki 3 years ago
Your logic is dependant on something that is totally untrue. If you make a million a year, you can easily spend more than a hundred grand in that year. Look at the movie stars in this country and how much they spend. It is a FACT that people with more money spend more money. Therefore they pay more taxes than the poor do. The poor will get all or most of it back, just like they do today. The rich will contunue to spend and invest in business that makes them more money.
jboritzki 3 years ago
If you have all that money, as a human, you are not going to stay at $30,000 per year to live. That would not be natural. You will eventually spend it. When you do, you will pay the tax. You pay taxes on your dozen or so cars, multi-million dollar house, etc. You are not going to stay at $30,000 per year.
kimbeanie 3 years ago
The only way people can disagree with the Fair Tax is because of a lack of knowledge on what is proposes. It is not a reduction or increase in taxes. It is simply a way to afford the government in a different way. PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF. You don't have to wait for someone on YouTube!
hurricannamedditka 3 years ago
I became a bilionaire in my video while delaying my taxes several years and it was my option to pay or not. I opted to pay at the same rate as a $30,000 income person for several years...or a $80,000 person while I made millions. What if I dont stop? When will I pay my taxes if I am a miser? What will the military do with a huge drop in taxes for 3-4 years? $0 for the military? $0 for social programs? I would hoarde my cash until my bank account burst then spend like a miser. Fair? No!
boredjoewo 3 years ago
Why would anyone work so hard to make all those millions and never spend it. $0 for the military and social programs IF every rich person lives like you say they would. That will never happen.
jboritzki 3 years ago
@boredjoewo
There won't be a drop. There will be an incerase. this will make exports to other countries cheaper because it will eliminate the embedded 23% tax on our exports creating more and better jobs here.
It will tax the entire underground economy. Illegals and Mafia alike will have to pay taxes.
Right now, under the income tax, you are subsidizing the mafia.
theunbubba 11 months ago
@boredjoewo It is fair in that it does not tax your income,( unconstitutional ). How is it fair to tax on what you have worked for? Example if I Fix your car I have traded my knowledge, Skill, and time for your skill and knowledge, and time we are even no profit was made. The Fair Tax also does not double + tax on goods you only pay on new goods so only one tax on an item. The poor usually, or should buy second hand items so they would not be paying no tax on those items. I think thats fair.
walthomas 10 months ago
@boredjoewo You said "you have paid all of your taxes in full, because you have spent everything... so you have paid your taxes and you have spent everything you have." WHAT! Assuming your stupid scenario is true. The guy making 30k is an idiot for spending it all. (poor planing) The guy who keeps his money in the stock market is allocating funds to businesses, who then use that money to expand and hire new employees. They then allocate the money through purchases, and pay THEIR taxes.
asleeperj 10 months ago
@boredjoewo Second, NAME ONE PERSON who DOUBLES their money EVERY QUARTER, or even every year in the stock market. Next lets assume that it is possible to turn a million dollars into 32 million in such a short time. They can't do anything with it. They cannot liquidize it because the ammount of sell orders would flood what ever this person invested so heavily in, and the stock prices would drop, and become a no some game. leaving the person with little more than a million dollars.
asleeperj 10 months ago
FLAT TAX, It's the FAIR tax, get it right. If you are going attempt a feeble minded attack on it, then you're going to have to put forth better arguments than these. You stammer to say Flat-Fair-Fair tax, you seem to know little of basic stock exchange and overall economics. Get yourself a good ol' Thomas Sowell book and educate yourself on basic economics.
asleeperj 10 months ago
@boredjoewo - If you are not getting the chance to enjoy your own income than you should not be required to pay a tax on it - period.
StateExempt 4 months ago
@hurricannamedditka Fairtax is a farce, -- read their fine print. Besides the massive tax on people -- on rent, on food, on utilities, on everything -- its a massive tax on city and state governments. Your city, your county, your state, will have to pay massive taxes on every dime they spend. That may sound great to you, but
1) they hide this
2) they hide this
3) they hide this
4) city and states would have to raise massive revenue to pay it
5) they hide this
12FlyMe 1 year ago
Fairtax is perversly named -- its the opposite of fair. What's fair about putting the highest sales tax on earth -- on renters? Why the hell should renters pay the highest sales tax ON EARTH on their rent? WHy? Home owners dont have to pay the fairtax on house payment -- but renters would pay through the nose. Fair my ass.
Whats fair about cancer victims having to pay the highest sales tax on earth, on their chemo and surgery? Nursing home patients would get clobbered with this idiocy too
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Cap gains tax is as low as 5%, or 10%. The TOP tax rate on cap gains is 15. I don't know where you got 17.
I totally agree with you that Fairtax is a terrible idea-- but I know Fairtax is a farce, literally a farce.
One thing - Fairtax and flat tax are completely different.
MarkDouglasC 3 years ago
Here is how the poor are benefiting from you not paying your taxes but investing in stocks:
While your money is being invested, it is allowing businesses to use the money to expand and grow... this growth creates more jobs, giving the poor higher pay. The higher pay, allows them the opportunity to invest - or blow it on luxuries.
As long as you're not hiding your money, it's being productive to the economy - and everyone benefits.
TBEau1 3 years ago
The flat rate tax system proposed by the Adam Smith Institute in London is on income tax not sales tax so that negated your argument.
ncollier1 4 years ago
You don't have a clue what's really wrong with Fairtax - but you know its stupid. Thats a start.
But you don't even know what a flat tax is. You keep saying flat tax. Flat tax in an income tax. Fairtax is a bogus bullcrapola farce about a sales tax.
Two different things.
Of the two -- flat tax is logical, if unfair. Fairtax is a crock, its wacko unfair, and can't possibly work at all. It would be fun to watch, tho. Its so stupid I would love to watch them try it.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
You obviously don't know a thing about the Fair Tax.
jboritzki 3 years ago
Yes Fairtax is nonsense. BUt its nonsense cause it doesnt work. THe rate would have to be 60% at least.
Google fairtax absurdity -- the consumption tax is stupid. How the hell can a cancer patient, or nursing home patient, pay 50,000 in sales tax on 150,000 operation and chemo?
Plus - the morons at Fairtax want you to believe they can make the federal government pay ITSELF a huge tax. About 500 billion.
Neal Boortz wrote -- "The federal government itself becomes a major taxpayer."
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
All money spent would be taxed. It does not matter who spends the money. That means the government would also be paying into the tax system. 23% federal sales tax will equil the 33% we pay now on income because people would have more money to spend and more people would be paying taxes. You already pay taxes on operations. It's called an imbedded tax that is included in the price. Learn the facts about the Fair Tax because you, and all Americans would benefit from it.
jboritzki 3 years ago
Your basic complaint is that the rich get richer. But that in itself is not a problem. The problem is to make money flow in such a way that it encourages people to dedicate time of their lives in the most useful fashion. All of your scenarios make money go towards the most profitable endeavors. But profitability is indicative of usefulness. So while you are right about the numbers you haven't shown why that would be a detriment rather than a benefit.
docmoriarti 4 years ago
These politicians mock you and your political stupidity. They laugh at you at there fancy cocktail party's with there rich donors. They know you will not take the few hours needed to realize what is really happening. In fact they count on your ignorance and stupidity. The best slaves are the ones that believe they are free.
putittogether 4 years ago
Simple math for dumb Americans:
Middle Class tax's in America. (thats the workingman)
Federal 28%
State 9%
City 7%
Property and misc 6%
Inflation 4% (if you don't know thats a tax then you got a lot to learn about your money)
That comes to 54% of your income as a regular working person, not rich, by any means. Sound like a good deal to you?
putittogether 4 years ago
All of the Federal Income Tax's you pay goes to a Private Bank in the form of interest (profit)on loans to the government. Not one penny goes to the Government, not one fucking penny. In fact this PRIVATE bank is owned by the wealthiest people on the planet. Further more you personally owe them over $70,000.00, and you WILL pay these men...period. You know this bank as the Federal Reserve Bank.
putittogether 4 years ago
We should tax idiots who post dumb videos on YouTube, and men who wear blue shirts.
karl75771 4 years ago
Funny Karl but not substantive.If it is so dumb say something of substance.If you invested like me we would both have a few billion dollars and we would pay as much tax as we want or as little due to our economic circumstance. The poor do not get that option and I get to remove that money almost 100% out of the commerce flow until I acquire as much money as I want. I can basically print money until i reach the sky. How does this benefit society at all? Wouldnt this hurt the military?
boredjoewo 4 years ago
Billionaires deserve every penny.Sometimes investors get huge profits from the stock market, but they also undergo a huge amount of risk.Investors provide money that is used for developing new technology and research.When corporations receive a large influx of capital from investors they are able to expand, open factories, etc. This gives poor people an opportunity to get a new job.Boeing gets money from investors.They use the money to develop new fighter jets which are purchased by the military
karl75771 4 years ago
Let them eat cake? then their heads were chopped off. History? Ever hear of it?
boredjoewo 3 years ago
@boredjoewo I'm not getting this comment of yours at all....
TomQuiNEstPasLa 1 year ago
No one does that! Even if they did put ALL of their money into a bank, that money is used by the bank to give loans to other people to buy a house, or to start a business, or to buy a car. Unless they're putting ALL of their money in a shoe box under the bed, that money is working for the economy and for the people of the USA.
jboritzki 3 years ago
It is fair because if you are PRODUCTIVE you benefit!
Why should society permanently subsidize slackers?
Not to mention, we are in a globalized economy now. International tax competition will increasingly DEMAND our tax code be pro-growth.
As for the FairTax (get it right)... it is even better!
Economic growth is the best thing the government can encourage to benefit the poor and middle class.
Yairio 4 years ago
The tax system sucks, it is slowing economic growth, and discriminates against productivity, savings, investment, and family.
SS is a fraud, it is wasting peoples money and slowing economic growth.
We need a Free Choice Flat Tax system and Personal Accounts.
FCFT: 17% rate, 13200 standard exemptions, 4000 child/dep exemption, child tax credit, EITC. No death, capital gains, dividend, etc, tax. Stop complaining about the "rich". Such a tax code would benefit EVERYONE.
Yairio 4 years ago
How about NO income tax? I look forward to the deception.
putittogether 4 years ago
How about widespread starvation how about widespread disease how about your house worth less because you live next to a city of huts in America. The weathiest nation ever. Doesnt that sound WRONG at any level to you?No taxes no government doing good just you living in a desert with no roads and no police and no fire department and no ambulance service and no college hospitals and so many things that very little money from all of us provides? Promote the general welfare...where is that from?
boredjoewo 4 years ago
boredjoewo Your comment stands as a testament to the stupidity of the American public when it cames to income tax's. You have no idea what you are talking about.
putittogether 4 years ago
During the worst of violence in NYC (15 years ago) a number of private city-protection organizations were formed. There is also a number of private ambulance companies. First NYC subway system was built privately ILLEGALLY and in secret. You think these services must be provided by the government or they won't exist. The reality is otherwise. First they are created privately, then the government decides to strong arm their way into taking them over.
docmoriarti 4 years ago
The bottom line is that me being super rich has the option to pay taxes or not. You being the poor guy do not have that option. And as a result the services that the poor would take advantage of can be killed if my thought were popularised. So the fairness is for me and unfairness for the poor. This will move money up the chain and it will not come back down the chain. Is this part of Ron Paul and other Republican's dream of killing Social Security?
boredjoewo 4 years ago
You seem to be missing the concept of the prebate. Everyone gets a check in the mail every month, covering the sales tax up to the poverty line. Live at the poverty line and you don't pay federal taxes. That rule applies if you're a billionaire or live week by week.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
would the Fair Tax kill the military if the rich people lived at $30k for a couple of years? I would live at $30k per year for a few and basically pay chump change for taxes. who would pay for all of our upcoming wars Republicans want us to start? BTW doesnt making 1/4 of a billion dollars and not paying any more taxes than you sound fishy? how imbalanced would it have to be before it did? 2 billion or 5 billion with no taxes compared to you with $30,000 and your peanut rebate? Laughable!
boredjoewo 4 years ago
PLUS this plan taxes money out of the hands of the masses and helps the top 2%. my 1/4 of a billion would have me buy a few TVs however all of those 6,000 people making $30,000 could buy upwards of 5,000 TVs conservatively for instance. Removing cash from the masses makes our market smaller and hurts business. How does one 1/4 billionaire be more worthy than thousands of people with decent money to a nation that is more MARKET than anything else?Money moves up and it stays there see voodoo econ
boredjoewo 4 years ago
The super rich are very mixed on their opinion of the FairTax, it's very polarizing. The super rich don't pay taxes on gains unless those gains are realized (they cash out an investment, to buy something, maybe a different investment... maybe a BMW). Many go years with paying taxes on a profit. When they do liquidate, they usually pay 15% long term capital gains. Under the FairTax, when they go to spend that money, they'll pay 23% on it. A lot of heat on Huckabee comes from the super rich.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
No one has addressed the potential quantity of money that the rich would wake out of the taxation equation by keeping their cash in investments and keep them there without paying taxes potentially for generations. I do not see how this is a massive fleecing or even stealing from the nation. ALSO why is it that these people do not want to share with their massive good fortune? To not share when you have plenty defies goodness on many levels religious or moral or practical.
boredjoewo 4 years ago
Who's to say that this fictional multi-millionaire doesn't give a large chunk to charity?
The money isn't sitting under a mattress. If he's getting the returns you say he is, he's helping employ countless of working class people. Usually 60% of the gains from capital investment, goes to the user of the capital.
Without capital investment, a skilled carpenter has no tools. What good are his skills without tools? Who reaps the greater reward for those tools?
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
I didnt. I made $250 million and sat on it for years without morethan $30k in expenses and the taxes associated with that amount. How will the federal government buy boms without my money? How will the federal government exist?
boredjoewo 4 years ago
you have to eat, so does every illeagal, tourist, and person in the states. see everyone pays not just the citizens like it is now. i don't know about you but i'm tired of feeding the illeagals.
QuietBullet 4 years ago
without the illegals we would have 0 populatrion growth so our "market" would not be growing which would kill our corporations. This is a huge reason why illegals are allowed here. Plus would you want to pay a union Electrician $40/hr to wire your house or an illegal about $10/hr? You dont buy things from China do you? Come on and contradict yourself!!!! do it and make me laugh!!! Hate the illegals and love the Chinese killing our jobs so you have $1 tube socks? hahah laughable!
boredjoewo 4 years ago
well i don't know about you but i wouldn't mind a pay raise. it would raise cost (cause and effect) but since your making more it would be about equal to what it is now if illegals weren't allowed now. As for buying from china i really don't have a choice unfortunately since 99.9% of stuff is made there, that's a moot point.
QuietBullet 4 years ago
think about this maybe you don't understand the financial backing that the tax payers are paying for now. you pay for there hospital visits, there jail time, housing, and food. So how is are system better now than if fair tax is? were going bankrupt. the fair tax would bring back business's cause they would benefit from the tax burden meaning more jobs.
QuietBullet 4 years ago
I agree with you here 100% boredjoewo. I would love to see people pay illegals minimum wage and give them employee benefits. Then we'd see who's complaining about the illegals. These are some of the hardest working people in the United States, and
ayalao 3 years ago
Why should illegals that don't pay into the tax system get benefits? The Fair Tax would cause them all to pay taxes and if they wanted the benefits or prebate checks, they'd have to become legal. There is no benefit to being illegal.
jboritzki 3 years ago
let me end by saying that this whole American fear of illegals is nothing more than an act of racism. When we refer to illegals we are directly addressing illegal Latin Americans, more specifically Mexicans. Yet we fail to acknowledge all of the Asian or European illegals who come to the US and over stay their visas.
ayalao 3 years ago
Right! We are talking about illegal Mexicans because they are here illegally by the millions and not paying taxes, taking jobs, filling up the prisons that are paid for with tax dollars.
jboritzki 3 years ago
0 population growth? So Americans dont' have unprotected sex and therefor ehave babies? Where do you get your information?
jboritzki 3 years ago
@boredjoewo If my tube socks cost one dollar as opposed to, say, four dollars, than I'll finance China anyday. Heaven forbid the United States tube sock industry goes broke....
TomQuiNEstPasLa 1 year ago
Joe. I can't say I agree with your analysis of the FairTax. I strongly support the FairTax. However, I do agree with you on Universal Health Care. I support HR 676, The United States National Health Care Act, introduced by John Conyers D-Michigan. It's interesting to see that Laurence Kotlikoff, one of the developers of the FairTax also says that to further boost the US economy, a single payer universal health care system is needed. In my opinion HR 676 is the best plan.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
Wonderful comments btw!
You guys mention that the $30k person will see a 5-10% boost which is $1500 to $3000 while I made $250 million!!! How much tax do you want to pay then you spend that or in my video scenario dont.This is a Socialistic movement of cash from the poor to the rich. Just as the bank bailout was a Socialistic bailout of banks by the taxpayer. Protect the billionaires! The Fair Tax is neither because the poor see unavoidable taxes while the rich can avoide them optionally.I did
boredjoewo 4 years ago
Let's look at the single parent earning $30k and spending it all. Under the current proposed FairTax, after prebate, their effective tax rate is 12.5%. Let's assume this person pays no income tax, just the regressive 7.5% FICA tax. Under the FairTax, they'd be 5% worse off. However, most of the products they buy are domestically produced (rent, groceries, etc) and have an unknown embedded tax up to 8-22%. So prices will go down. Estimates say they'll be 5-10% better off under the FairTax.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
Thanks for the info. Some questions..
Where does the embedded tax come from? If it is attatched to the product/producer, what's to stop the cost from being put on to the consumer? Why will prices go down?
crock703 4 years ago
According to the research done over a 10 year period, the 22% is embedded corporate taxes... corporate taxes passed on to the consumer. Corporations don't pay income taxes. If there is no longer an income tax, the 22% is not passed on to the consumer. The market drives prices down, then add the 23% consumption tax. Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve says that in order to boost our economy and bring jobs back, we need some type of consumption tax instead of the current system.
denimblueindigo 4 years ago
At the very least employers match the 7.5% FICA on all labor involved in creating their product. Think of a loaf of bread: the baker, the miller producing the flour, the farmer growing the wheat, the company producing the wheat seeds, fertilizer, water, etc. The supply chain is endless, all paying taxes and passing them to the next. Hidden.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
Now think about the extra accountants at every level to comply to taxes. The lobbyists to "tweak" the tax system.
My biggest problem with the current tax system is that taxes paid are hidden. The consumer truly has no clue what their total taxes are because of this. A politician could offer the bottom 50% a tax break and instead tax the corporations to make up the difference. At the end of the day, the bottom 50% would pay for that tax break in higher prices at Walmart, it's just hidden.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
Why will prices go down?
The same market forces that keep milk (something almost everyone needs) from costing $20 a gallon, will either force lower prices or increased wages. If company A decides to just pocket the difference, company B will see that as an opportunity to gain market share and company B will either lower their prices or increase their wages to attract company A's best employees.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago
How come the banks involved in the recent meltdown were free market people prior to the meltdown and then when profits at the Bank of America dropped 95% they became Socialists awfully fast and wanted that regulatory bailout. Perfect example of the rich getting richer and the rich being protected while the poor bail out the rich time and time again. The Free Market sounds good until the rich need a crutch then they are Socialists all the way to the bank!
boredjoewo 4 years ago
It's funny you should mention that. Why was CountryWide bought by BofA? Because the defaults on bad loans, were actually an asset to BofA under the tax code. WTF? Any tax system that makes incompetence a valued asset is flawed.
Free Market is not the problem here, in a truly free market these companies would have been punished by the market, instead due to government involvement and the tax code they are rewarded.
SublimeSimplicity 4 years ago