Я так понимаю, что современный F-16 не смог одолеть старенький советский МИГ-29А разработки 80-х в схватке. Что ожидать от исхода поединка с современным Мигом?
Such a dig from the engine MiG is only when the afterburner is turned off! I wonder why the pilot was flying without the afterburner? The unaided eye can see that the F-16 is easy to catch up with the MiG.
In Russia, the MiG-29 fighter is the best close air combat, which means he is the best maneuverability of a fighter in the world
My grandfather flew in one back when he was in the force in the USSR; TERRIBLE handling and engine efficiency, definitely NOT a pilot's aircraft in any way.
Just another soviet-produced piece of junk to try to catch up with the lightweight fighter program of the west back in the day.
It is the only engine capable of operating in all flight modes including zapridelnyh at angles of attack. His engine was madefor this. Though he is not cost-effective, but one of the safest in the world.
not all do... just the mig 29.. thats how the engine was in the first place (only when they release the throttle ... and that was a problem because the enemy pilot could see them easier following the trail of smoke....
the F 16 does the same at one point.. all hets do but not that much...
So nice is te american model but it´s not compare with russian power. Two turbins is more best as one!!!! Is the chilean comentary for all the world.....
malaysia mig29 vs singapore f16 in dogfight training..result mig win..thats y singapore order the new f15c special for fight with malaysia mig if war happen.
What are u guys talking about, the F-16 won this dog easily, he was sitting on the MiG's 6 o'clock for the whole fight. The 16's turn radius made all the difference from the 1st merge. Poor performance from the MiG's pilot though from a BFM standpoint.
To much of a joke. Anyone that really knows fighters and Dog Fighting and BFM's knows that you just dont do turn and then turn and then turn come the 16 had missle lock in the first 25 seconds.... if it was a real training fight.
@sanchez613R Umm yeah the F-15 kicked the living shit out of the MiG-29 idiot. No F-15 has ever been lost in air to air combat, and has killed over 10 MiG-29s. If I recall correctly, NATO shut shit down in Serbia pretty fast.
@BAACCOOOOCk BRAVO you were fighting downgraded mig's in iraq and yugoslavia .. Yugoslavia owned mig-29ub training version with no radar and mig-29b a downgraded version too .. In iraq you were fighting mig-29 the original 1989 model ... You crazy bitches ha?? If a f-15 goes in fight with a modern mig-29 well i don't know what the poor f-15 will do ..
@BAACCOOOOCk hahaha you fight downgraded mig-29 and you are happy ... Every military analyst will tell you that f-15 are not capable any more to fight against su-35 , mig -35 , su-27,su-30, mig-29 ... And i am talking about modern versions .. goodbye
@TheKifinas You said MiG-29, then changed to Sukhois. The F-15E, F-22, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, and the F-35 are better than any Russian made jet. Talk shit on older F-15s but they have a flawless 104-0 track record, and no Russian jets can match that at all. BTW, the F-15, even older versions, can see a modern MiG or Sukhoi 80 miles before the MiG or Sukhois know it, resulting in an AIM-120 AAMRAM blowing up the prized Russian jet.
@BAACCOOOOCk i just mentioned them ... 80 miles???? look at the avionics of the su and mig their maximum search range of 350 km . And the su-35 can track planes to a range of 400 km and don't say me that it can't track f-22 or f-35 because it can . Also your country putted your planes against russian planes in a simulation and you lost very badly ...
@TheKifinas Yeah ummm no that simulation was B.S. and the U.S. has a very different report. The American radars can track a piece of shit Sukhoi from 80 miles before the Sukhoi can, and shoot at the bastard with an AIM-120. There are only 24 SU-35s that have been built, and no one wants to buy more because they suck. There are over 2,000 F-16s that are in service, and the F-22 and F-35 in that simulation, according to the U.S. killed 30 enemy aircraft without being detected, flawless.
@BAACCOOOOCk and then you woke up .... all over the intenet you can see this report .. Just admit it and stop posting ... You are not better in every aspect ...
@TheKifinas Search Red Flag 2008 on youtube and there will be a video explaining how the F-16, F-15, and F-22 beat Indian pilots in Su-30s, and how the F-22 has a 28-30 sustained turn DPS and how the Sukhoi only has a 21-23 DPS. It also explains how the American F-22 can fly in stalled air, and why the Sukhoi can not. The F-35 is a little bitch fighter but it is good. It can fire at targets behind them, and this was also adapted in to the F-22. If you want I will also link an article for you.
@TheKifinas I will send it in a message, the guy says Su-30s are good but compared to the F-22 it does not cut it. Watch both of the videos, part one and two in the article. By the way, the videos you sent me were not kosher because the F-35 was there merely to test the functionality of the Helmet mounted HUD, not to dogfight, The F-35 in actually meant for strike and stealth, and in a dogfight, it can shoot at anyone whether they are behind them or in front. Also, the F-15 beat the Su-30.
@PakiEagle1 I agree, although I do not know the details of this exercise, the mig in this clip was dead to rights the entire engagement. The problem is even the best ACE stands zero chance without a wingman.
@Huselius77 Expain how the MiG won with the F-16 on its tail the entire time. If the MiG could shoot at targets directly behind it, I can enterain your logic, but beings the MiG was defensive the entire time I think its obvious that the MiG lost.
if you watch from 5:30 to 5:35, and see how he did MIG escaped easly , whats that till you , tell you if it was a really battle , then you would see F16 in pieces on the ground time a go
@davidmartin74 Dude, he didn't get away. The F-16 turned above him to bleed off airspeed in order to prevent an overshoot. By doing so he also gained the altitude advantage. If this was a real fight the MiG would have been shot down within the first 8 seconds. MiG-29s have faced F-16s in actual combat 19 times, and every single time the MiG was shot down. There's no way this fight would have ended well for the MiG considering it was defensive EVERY SECOND. Learn to deal.
@Ljub001 No, Serbian MiG-29s shot down by NATO F-16s in 1997 were destroyed by AIM-120 AMRAAMS. They were not sitting on the ground. Nor were the ones shot down over North Africa or in South East Asia.
@AeroSharkTech 1999 is year you talking about, and i was talking about this video, not about that specific situation. While you metion this, Serbia had only 3 mig29, one fall due some engine problem, other one was shot down by f16, now thers only ONE mig29... Nato had more than 20 aircrafts in that operation so bring one f16 on 5-10 migs and we will see what hapens. I still don claim that mig29 is better just talking about facts. grets
@Ljub001 Yep, type-o. 1999, however NATO clearly documented and proved via six different aircraft and early warning radar systems that F-16s had engaged 2 separate MiG-29s on two separate occasions. One of the engagements involved multiple missile launches. And as far as the 20 aircraft you are referring to, only 4 of them were flying CAP while the others were flying strike missions. I take what the Serbs say with a grain of salt considering they tried to mask civilian killings.
Germany sold all there MIG'S because that was old model of Mig-29. Compare newest F-16 with newest Mig-29. The Poles have written several articles on this topic (they have both) - read them first. That "Useless soviet junk" ripping apart your useless american junk.
@Huselius77 actually the MiG-29 LOST! the F-16 can pull a tighter minimum radius turn than the Mi-29 meaning it could beat it in a dogfight. and because of the fact that it has a better radar AND a lower RCS it could beat it in BVR combat as well. the F-16 is FAR superior to the MiG-29, despite the fact that the MiG-29 was built SPECIFICALLY to destroy the F-16. US aircraft>everything.
Interesting commercial products, but they don't compare to the specially designed Israeli Lavi, which threatened to put F-16 out of business since the 80s, the Americans HAD to pay Israel to shut the project down, and save the F16 industry.
fanny o no fanny e la verita se mi capisci anche il mig 21 e all livello del f22 con un radar di ultima generazione migs and sukoy nr 1 .others shet.this its realty
@zoran3119 Google: "For heaven's sake please don't buy the Mig 35" to see why it came in last place in MMRCA. The F-16 was far superior aircraft, including sustained, instant, recovery from bleed rates, and radar.
Russia aircraft have a long way to go to catch up to the West's.
@asusucks mig -29A > F-16 ie F-16 is not a fighter and will get shot down. The MIG-29SMT and M upgrades drastically improved its performance. In terms of strike aircraft with range the F-16 is better because it uses a single engine. But in dog fighting the MIG-35 will pwn it. Different Roles they both have. But both need to be retired.
@AFosterBoy Purchasing the MiG-35 would mean dependece on a single market. They have already gotten MiG-29k from Russia and alsoSu-30's for air force.....Thus going european they would get different technology transferred to their local industry. No one would by american planes due to their stupid legal agreements. Plus their over priced without transfer of technology. You have to be a real dick to do assness like that
@AFosterBoy I suggest that you read the report of the MMRCA competition. The F-16 was superior to the Mig 35 in all areas that mattered most in dogfighting & A2A combat in general: sustained, instant, and recovery from bleed the F-16 excelled. in addition, the F-16's AESA radar made the Mig's look primitive. Seriously, Google: "For heaven's sake don't buy the Russian Mig 35" to get a basic idea of how bad the Mig is compared to Western fighters. + Russia was the only country that
was willing to transfer all technology, and offer it's fighter for only a faction of the price of all others, says a lot about the poor state of Russian fighter tech compared to the West's.
@SnemeisProductions Too bad it never happened! Now that's a fact! Not only that, but the F-16 is still judged today to be a better aircraft than even the suped-up Mig 29, the Mig 35.LOL
It was the researcher’s experience that the aircraft have comparable initial turning performance. However, the MiG-29 suffers from a higher energy bleed rate than the F-16. This is due to high induced drag on the airframe during high-G maneuvering. F-16 pilots that have flown against the Fulcrum have made similar observations that the F-16 can sustain a high-G turn longer. This results in a turn rate advantage that translates into a positional advantage for the F-16.
a Fulcrum pilot would not know exactly which F-16 the radar had locked and he can engage only one F-16 at a time.A Viper pilot can launch AMRAAMS against multiple MiG-29s on the first pass and support his missiles via data link until the missiles go active.He can break the radar lock and leave or.. The Alamo is a semi-active missile that must be supported by the launching aircraft until impact.Just as the the Fulcrum pilot gets in range to fire an Alamo, the AMRAAM is seconds away from impacting
R-27 had active guided version, hampered by poor radar on early 29s. It was quite comparable to Sparrow.
AMRAAMs should rather be compared with R-77s, and take note: when both types were introduced, F-16s (Taiwan rare ADF variant aside) were not capable of BVR engagements AT ALL. Of course, you can go on an compare MiG-15 to F-22 and brag about western superiority - but what's the point ?
Russian pilots call their fellow pilots from the West even eight years ago to try to close combat with them and the offer is still valid... yet no one from the West did not agree and as for now, unfortunately there is no notice that someone would dare, and therefore only remains to hope that at some other meetings will be more such performances. Once again, the damage which is staged.
My respond will be a little bit long so I will mark it with abc :-)
a)I dont consider myself to be an expert but I do follow military aviation technique for over 30yrs.That said, my opinion is that F15 i F16 until the ’80 were absolutely the best planes in everything, and then mig29 and Su27 appeared proving to be the best aircraft for close aerial combat. At the Paris LE Bourget Aero show in 1989 a lot of new manoeuvres were performed and among them Pugachev’s cobra as well.
b)Since these elements were disputed by many experts that cannot be used in real combat a few yrs later Pugachev in order to prove that these elements can be used, he called Western colleagues to try close combat. Over the yrs that became practise with Russian pilots with mig29 and Su27. Unfortunately I have not found anywhere in any articles, interviews... that Western pilots expressed the desire to try close combat with Russians.
c)When asked by journalist the only respond was: We have 1000 F15 and F16 and Russian only few. So, don’t know what kind of proof you want but if you read any interviews with Russian and Western pilots or retrospective articles made by journalist from all over the word right after aero shows, in some you would find those statements of Russian pilots.
d) Maybe the word “staged” is too strong,its not about who has won and who lost the duel.Point is to see real challenge.Let me ask you this:If the Russian pilots who operate on newest mig29 had the F16 from the’80 to trained on and see what the flaws are and how to defeat it and then show close aerial combat those two aircrafts in front of their audience ...Who do you think would win?
Considering that US pilots get 4 times the amount of flight time and experience per year when compared to their Russian counterparts. That US pilots participate in Red Flag every year while Russians have nothing even remotely close to combat training, I'll bet on the US pilots.
And perhaps hudred times better than Ethiopians - so frakin' what ? Until 1986 it wouldn't help them anyway, but in good old fashioned way you insist on comparing apples with oranges.
In their respective modernizations, Falcons and Fulcrums are evenly matched (airframes, armament, avionics, and "who wins" is decided by tactics, support infrastructure (tankers, AWACS) to lesser extend - pilot skill.
BTW: name ONE war were SOVIET pilots had to confront enemy BVR :D
@SantaClaws488 Plenty of times. Take the U2 that was shot down over Russian airspace in the 60's. Granted, the missles were SAM's - but the U2 was flying at around 100,000 feet - well into BVR territory. This exact scenario was repeated in China who used the Soviet SA-2 missile. Even an old Iraqi Mig 25 managed to score a BVR kill of an F/A-18 Hornet! Also, the Mig 31 was designed explicitly for BVR engagement and tests prove that it is highly effective in this role.
"Falcons and Fulcrums are evenly matched (airframes, armament, avionics"
Uh, no.
Again, quoted from a COL who's flown both.
"The lack of SA-building tools for MiG-29 pilots will become an even bigger factor if they have more aircraft to keep track of. Poor radar and HUD displays, poor cockpit ergonomics and poor handling qualities added to the Fulcrum pilot’s workload and degraded his overall SA."
I have much more if you want it.. But it'll ruin all your impressions of the Mig.
I have no impression to ruin whatsoever; it's actually you who have trouble matching facts in timeline. And quote random biased opinions. MiG-29, when introduced, was superior to any contemporary F-16 which had *no* BVR capability at all. And not long after that MiG development was put on hold for over 2 decades, for obvious reasons. In the mean time F-16 evolved from cheap WVR escort / ground attack to versatile 4+ GEN aircraft.
Whatever, you brag about the Mig29 data link when all it was when it first came out was truly another radio so that ground controllers could vector the Mig as per Russian SOP. Congratulations, their "data link" performed the same function as a VHF radio.
Like everything that the Russians make, it's hyped up way beyond what it is capable of and ignorant people think it's ground breaking tech.
Nice instead of responding with facts you just make yourself look stupid. Here's some advice. Just don't respond because "dream on" makes you look like a dumb ass when anyone can research the info and see you're wrong.
e) Since I thing it would be normal for mig29 to win in front of their audience,would that be real 1on1 challenge?Would it be more enjoyable to watch the best Western pilots with most recent f16 and the best Russian pilots on most recent mig29, no matter who wins?
Well, it was - taxpayer wouldn't notice but would be unhappy if new and expensive bird lost. And numerous training engagements were conducted by PAF, pitching F-16s against MiGs-29s in semi realistic (i.e. not airshow) conditions. And results were inconclusive to say the least. Mostly due to experience in flying and guiding MiGs vs. new pilots on F-16s, this time without E-3, F-15s and with the same access to ground control.
If F-16Cs and MiG-29s face off in aerial combat, both would detect each other on the radar at comparable range. Armed with the AIM-120 AMRAAM, the F-16s would have the first shot opportunity at more than twice the range as the Fulcrums. A single F-16 would be able to discriminately target individual and multiple Fulcrums. The MiG-29’s radar will not allow this. If there is more than one F-16 in a formation, cont.
Someone noticed smoke from the MiG engine, which is one of the weaknesses of the first variant of this aircraft (can be seen at greater distances in clean sky).On the other hand, this F16 is one of last modification (block 52 or block 60) and this gives him a chance in close combat against this MiG.
Would be a great spectacle that is not staged.But we should be realistic:the fool can expect that the Poles are so stupid,and pushed a finger in the eye to themselves and allies,and really test the aircrafts.
@lassecfc Yes, every jet has cruise nuclear missiles to score a hit 20km of distance, the max you can do is 8km and that's stupid to fire a missile at that distance. Also, there's no comparison between russian jet tech and USA's. We've seen it in Vietnam where F86s got easily trashed by the migs. Or we can compare the maneuverability of a F22 and a SU37/35/47 or the T50.
Uh, if you're at your corner speed or bucket speed you don't slow down. And high yoyos aren't going to work b/c the 29 has worse acceleration and T:W than the F16. Low yoyo are used to extend distance, which is not what eh wants to do. He was trying to force an overshoot.
foolish staging, pole didn't ever try to shake 16th off, just rolled like falconry decoy, no speed manipulation, no vertical maneuver. all he need to do havin 2 times lesser wing-load is to speed down and then roll half-barrel. every time 16th loses him go he just starts another wide and smooth turn. lol
Too bad that in actual combat seeing MiG-29's exaust means that for a while the other aircraft has been tracked by Fulcrums IRST and R-73 is probably few hundred meters away.
Not to mention, that modern variants of MiG-29, F-16s etc. would wipe each other at BVR in any reasonably comparable scenario.
@AnteyPL Of course, but BVR engagements wouldn't make much of a show for spectators. We're talking WWII style dogfights for the public to observe using guns only. That's the purpose of staging this in such a small area at a low altitude.
The Russians have NEVER scored a single BVR kill. F16s have much better SA, datalink and ergonomics in their cockpit. That's why the Dutch smoked Mig29s over Kosovo. If you're going to talk about not having radar, you just mentioned below how the Mig29 supposedly has better datalink, which is what would negate having radar because they should be able to feed from other planes or ground controllers.
Reason why Western AF smoke everything is E-3 + AIM-120 + overwhelming superiority in numbers against poorely maintained, old variants of substandard version equipment. If you had given Dutch MiG-29s (which, again, had datalinks and other stuff you dream about in '80s era F-16s) in such position, result would be exactly the same. Most nations - except USSR - simply didn't have infrastructure (feeders for datalinks, ground control, Awacs etc) around which MiG-29 was built.
Considering that Mig29s are using PESA awhile US planes have already converted to AESA, no the results would not have been the same.I like how you say "overwhelming superiority in numbers" when it was 2 F15s and 4F16s versus 3 Migs. The Mig29s didn't even shoot.
And Like I said, the Russian missiles have NEVER scored a BVR kill.
MiG-29s don't use PESAs at all. First variants had good'ol Cassegrain antenna intherited from MiG-23.
Second, very few, if any, USAF F-16 use AESA radars, Third, it doesn't matter - it's who has AWACS that wins. Fourth: is there any reason why you compare early versions of Fulcrums to latest versions of Falcons which - by the way - incorporated many of innovations introduced on Fulcrum c.a decade earlier ?
Fifth: before AMRAAM/R-77/MICA BVR was generally a humbug.
"Lt. Col. Johann Köck, commander of the German MiG-29 squadron from
September 1995 to September 1997, was outspoken in his evaluation of the Fulcrum. “It has no range, its navigation system is unreliable and the radar breaks often and does not lend it self to autonomous operations”, he said. He added that the best mission for NATO MiG-29s would be as a dedicated adversary aircraft for other NATO fighters and not as part of NATO’s frontline fighter force. "
when MIG 29 pilots maid experience change with F16 pilots they was surprised by the roll rate of F16 banging their heads left and right in the canopy not expected to bee so agressive .this translate in rapid change of directions to avoid gun shots
Low speed is good just for Show, because in real fights you end up in a low energy state(SITTING DUCK for anybody else )and too regain it MUST go Down ,not Up ( predictibile to adversary,not desired) ,high speed is good for maneuver to evade missile in high G susteain break turn (3-9 line up with the missile) too break up RADAR ,release chaff or flare in this time all the way,put some distance ,or position for an attack
@simageorge63 ???Do you think it is easy to lock on somebody?At low speed and altitude.Mig 29 turns incredible and no airplane can match him i close dogfight.
But most important thing all people should know.Mig29 is probably the best dogfight jet only when the adversary pilots are equally skilled.
You're joking right? Two times the Mig29 tried to force an overshoot and failed miserably because the F16 not only turns better both instantaneously/sustained, but has better T:W which is why he was able to high yoyo both times and avoid the over shoot. The funniest part is that F16 is flying dirty with a center tank while the 29 is flying clean.
@SantaClaws488 mig29 can turn 360 degrees sideway in 400meters.mig29 can fly 150km/h without stalling.Mig29 can brake sound barrier when climbing.mig 29 can withstand 9G. german pilots kicked american ass in first exercises after soviet union collapsed.
Aside that MiG-29 introduced JHMCS, datalink and integrated avionics when F-16 didn't even had BVR capability and it's concepts were promptly copied worldwide ( only earlier aircraft with front sector camera was F-14 but it didn't have laser rangefinder) I'd say, you're bit biased.....
F16 didn't have BVR capability? Smoking crack much? F16 C/D Block had BVR out of the box.
Like I said, you can google those quotes about 500 flight hours in both aircraft and see how bad the Mig 29 is. There is a reason why it's been shot down 11 times with no answer. There's a reason why your country GAVE away their Mig29s for F16s.
You don't honestly believe that flying within visual range of spectators and under airshow safety restrictions is any reasonable measure of aircraft performance ? Also note, that polish MiG-29s and F-16 are basically generation aside and F-16s are factory-new while MiGs are basically 20+ years old.
@MarkoJagodinac : I think it is easy to lock on somebody in a F 16 vs another russian fighter
,yes,due to a inteligent (ergonomy ) aranjament of a dash board in cockpit.Russians have more to work on ergonomy .They thinking,more on comonality layout in cockpit on every type of fighter ,soo not want to dramatic change .
Я так понимаю, что современный F-16 не смог одолеть старенький советский МИГ-29А разработки 80-х в схватке. Что ожидать от исхода поединка с современным Мигом?
shuljup 7 hours ago
Pro Patria Semper..that is also Latin american motto
hispanicuscorpus 1 day ago
I dont care who won... i love the f16 and mig 29
nerfdrifter22 5 days ago
the f-16 obviously won that because it was on the migs tail the whole time
SuperKemp77 1 week ago
Russian jets are the best. That f16 could not even keep up with the old MIG.
snakesinmypants 2 weeks ago
Such a dig from the engine MiG is only when the afterburner is turned off! I wonder why the pilot was flying without the afterburner? The unaided eye can see that the F-16 is easy to catch up with the MiG.
In Russia, the MiG-29 fighter is the best close air combat, which means he is the best maneuverability of a fighter in the world
kPoJluK2008 2 weeks ago
my money would be on the pilot with better training and tactics
msalak87 2 weeks ago
Look at that gas-guzzling piece of shit...look at that HUGE trail of fuel...do you have any idea how much it's wasting? xD
Useless soviet junk.
Spjungen 3 weeks ago
Lol mig is a piece of shite
My grandfather flew in one back when he was in the force in the USSR; TERRIBLE handling and engine efficiency, definitely NOT a pilot's aircraft in any way.
Just another soviet-produced piece of junk to try to catch up with the lightweight fighter program of the west back in the day.
Spjungen 3 weeks ago
@Spjungen Before to say that MIG is a piece of shit you must fly at least on Cessna 152 before!!! You don't have any idea about jet combat!
zanfozanfani 2 weeks ago
I wonder why russian fighters always leave smoke trails... That is unburnt carbon and not very efficient right?
leangle1988 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@leangle1988
"I wonder why russian fighters always leave smoke trails... That is unburnt carbon and not very efficient right?"
No, this is a very old model of the engine, which is not the best part. Problem was solved long time ago, this plane is pretty old.))
HomelandProtector 2 weeks ago
@leangle1988
It is the only engine capable of operating in all flight modes including zapridelnyh at angles of attack. His engine was madefor this. Though he is not cost-effective, but one of the safest in the world.
kPoJluK2008 2 weeks ago
@leangle1988
not all do... just the mig 29.. thats how the engine was in the first place (only when they release the throttle ... and that was a problem because the enemy pilot could see them easier following the trail of smoke....
the F 16 does the same at one point.. all hets do but not that much...
it was nothing wrong with the engine
RoveRomania 1 week ago
Hey Guys , i think this year , there is an air exersise for the first time between Russia and USA.
The Russian will use the Mig 29 smt , Su 35 bm and the Americans will use the F22 and F16 or F15 .
Almugaded86 1 month ago
✈-----❇✈ peow peow
oloplol321 1 month ago 10
Mig have better construction characteristics but still it depends whos in aircraft.
Ljub001 1 month ago
So nice is te american model but it´s not compare with russian power. Two turbins is more best as one!!!! Is the chilean comentary for all the world.....
xrig0 1 month ago
"Na bliski dystans F-16 nie ma ze mną szans". Kapitan petr baca Pilot mig-29 słowackich sił powietrznych
MakarowskiVideo 1 month ago
malaysia mig29 vs singapore f16 in dogfight training..result mig win..thats y singapore order the new f15c special for fight with malaysia mig if war happen.
fazrul78 1 month ago
What variant of F-16 is that? I've never seen one with the added girth on the plane.
tmax5150 1 month ago
What are u guys talking about, the F-16 won this dog easily, he was sitting on the MiG's 6 o'clock for the whole fight. The 16's turn radius made all the difference from the 1st merge. Poor performance from the MiG's pilot though from a BFM standpoint.
FLANKERATOR 1 month ago
To much of a joke. Anyone that really knows fighters and Dog Fighting and BFM's knows that you just dont do turn and then turn and then turn come the 16 had missle lock in the first 25 seconds.... if it was a real training fight.
jamestexas2444 1 month ago
Mig 29 outturns the F-16 clearly
motormonkeyNL 2 months ago
F-16 i love u : )
BORNVEVO 2 months ago
MIG 29 LOSE...
F-16 IS THE BOSS
ChileInvencible1 2 months ago
1999:Serbia VS NATO - MiG-29 vs F-16,Mirage-2000,F-15,F-14....Winner - MiG-29.
sanchez613R 2 months ago
@sanchez613R Umm yeah the F-15 kicked the living shit out of the MiG-29 idiot. No F-15 has ever been lost in air to air combat, and has killed over 10 MiG-29s. If I recall correctly, NATO shut shit down in Serbia pretty fast.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk when did that happened
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk BRAVO you were fighting downgraded mig's in iraq and yugoslavia .. Yugoslavia owned mig-29ub training version with no radar and mig-29b a downgraded version too .. In iraq you were fighting mig-29 the original 1989 model ... You crazy bitches ha?? If a f-15 goes in fight with a modern mig-29 well i don't know what the poor f-15 will do ..
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk Where your come from?Europastan?NATO sucks...
sanchez613R 2 months ago
@sanchez613R USA brother, and talk shit on NATO but their track record and size are pretty significant.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
F-16 just showed who's boss.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk the boss is the mig ... lol
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas Well if the MiG is the boss here then the Falcon is the CEO who just fired the boss. lol
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk that was a display ... in real combat the mig would out manuevre the f-16 and destroy it ..
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas HaHa, most likely not considering in past engagements MiG-29s are 0-2 against the F-16 and 0-9+ against the F-15.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk hahaha you fight downgraded mig-29 and you are happy ... Every military analyst will tell you that f-15 are not capable any more to fight against su-35 , mig -35 , su-27,su-30, mig-29 ... And i am talking about modern versions .. goodbye
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas You said MiG-29, then changed to Sukhois. The F-15E, F-22, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, and the F-35 are better than any Russian made jet. Talk shit on older F-15s but they have a flawless 104-0 track record, and no Russian jets can match that at all. BTW, the F-15, even older versions, can see a modern MiG or Sukhoi 80 miles before the MiG or Sukhois know it, resulting in an AIM-120 AAMRAM blowing up the prized Russian jet.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk i just mentioned them ... 80 miles???? look at the avionics of the su and mig their maximum search range of 350 km . And the su-35 can track planes to a range of 400 km and don't say me that it can't track f-22 or f-35 because it can . Also your country putted your planes against russian planes in a simulation and you lost very badly ...
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas Yeah ummm no that simulation was B.S. and the U.S. has a very different report. The American radars can track a piece of shit Sukhoi from 80 miles before the Sukhoi can, and shoot at the bastard with an AIM-120. There are only 24 SU-35s that have been built, and no one wants to buy more because they suck. There are over 2,000 F-16s that are in service, and the F-22 and F-35 in that simulation, according to the U.S. killed 30 enemy aircraft without being detected, flawless.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk and then you woke up .... all over the intenet you can see this report .. Just admit it and stop posting ... You are not better in every aspect ...
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas Yeah and the report read the F-15 at Red Flag along with the F-22 won.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk oh god qhat are you talking about ... just write f-35simulation and google it .. you will see ..
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas Search Red Flag 2008 on youtube and there will be a video explaining how the F-16, F-15, and F-22 beat Indian pilots in Su-30s, and how the F-22 has a 28-30 sustained turn DPS and how the Sukhoi only has a 21-23 DPS. It also explains how the American F-22 can fly in stalled air, and why the Sukhoi can not. The F-35 is a little bitch fighter but it is good. It can fire at targets behind them, and this was also adapted in to the F-22. If you want I will also link an article for you.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
@BAACCOOOOCk you gone against a single model with all of your models ... link the article ..
TheKifinas 2 months ago
@TheKifinas I will send it in a message, the guy says Su-30s are good but compared to the F-22 it does not cut it. Watch both of the videos, part one and two in the article. By the way, the videos you sent me were not kosher because the F-35 was there merely to test the functionality of the Helmet mounted HUD, not to dogfight, The F-35 in actually meant for strike and stealth, and in a dogfight, it can shoot at anyone whether they are behind them or in front. Also, the F-15 beat the Su-30.
BAACCOOOOCk 2 months ago
Holly shit, never new the F-16 could turn like that.
MavHunter20XX 2 months ago
MiG win. Offcourse/ )))
Huselius77 2 months ago 15
@Huselius77 hey how do you say mig won MIG was on F16 nose and could be easily shot down.. do you know dogfight????!!!!
PakiEagle1 2 months ago
@PakiEagle1 I agree, although I do not know the details of this exercise, the mig in this clip was dead to rights the entire engagement. The problem is even the best ACE stands zero chance without a wingman.
Burnz2much 2 months ago
@Burnz2much yes but both were having no WM
PakiEagle1 2 months ago
@Huselius77 Mig won the loose....... f-16 all the way
PILUPACKSXXX 1 month ago
@Huselius77 Expain how the MiG won with the F-16 on its tail the entire time. If the MiG could shoot at targets directly behind it, I can enterain your logic, but beings the MiG was defensive the entire time I think its obvious that the MiG lost.
AeroSharkTech 1 month ago
@AeroSharkTech
if you watch from 5:30 to 5:35, and see how he did MIG escaped easly , whats that till you , tell you if it was a really battle , then you would see F16 in pieces on the ground time a go
davidmartin74 1 month ago
@davidmartin74 Dude, he didn't get away. The F-16 turned above him to bleed off airspeed in order to prevent an overshoot. By doing so he also gained the altitude advantage. If this was a real fight the MiG would have been shot down within the first 8 seconds. MiG-29s have faced F-16s in actual combat 19 times, and every single time the MiG was shot down. There's no way this fight would have ended well for the MiG considering it was defensive EVERY SECOND. Learn to deal.
AeroSharkTech 1 month ago
@AeroSharkTech Man we cant know that cose were on the ground.
Ljub001 1 month ago
@Ljub001 No, Serbian MiG-29s shot down by NATO F-16s in 1997 were destroyed by AIM-120 AMRAAMS. They were not sitting on the ground. Nor were the ones shot down over North Africa or in South East Asia.
AeroSharkTech 1 month ago
@AeroSharkTech 1999 is year you talking about, and i was talking about this video, not about that specific situation. While you metion this, Serbia had only 3 mig29, one fall due some engine problem, other one was shot down by f16, now thers only ONE mig29... Nato had more than 20 aircrafts in that operation so bring one f16 on 5-10 migs and we will see what hapens. I still don claim that mig29 is better just talking about facts. grets
Ljub001 1 month ago
Comment removed
AeroSharkTech 1 month ago
@Ljub001 Yep, type-o. 1999, however NATO clearly documented and proved via six different aircraft and early warning radar systems that F-16s had engaged 2 separate MiG-29s on two separate occasions. One of the engagements involved multiple missile launches. And as far as the 20 aircraft you are referring to, only 4 of them were flying CAP while the others were flying strike missions. I take what the Serbs say with a grain of salt considering they tried to mask civilian killings.
AeroSharkTech 1 month ago
@AeroSharkTech Yes, ofcourse I was talking about that migs were outnumbered, how many of them we cant know confidently, but point is still there.
I dont know which is better, until I fly with both of them.From land they look same, if u get what i mean.
Ljub001 1 month ago
@Ljub001 Yeah, I get you buddy. ;)
AeroSharkTech 1 month ago
@AeroSharkTech rofl that bit at the end was an excellent cherry on a top comment
fluffysnakeful 1 month ago
@Ljub001 1999 Serbia had 12 MiG-29, mostly defective.exactly is 2 miga29 broke f15 but with so much distance to their radar did not even notice
svetlan67 2 days ago
@Huselius77 mig? we must have been watching different fight
tapp40 1 month ago
@Huselius77 : No way Jose F16 locked 15 times on Mig 29 thats way Germany sold all there MIG'S !!
sargon08 3 weeks ago
@sargon08
Germany sold all there MIG'S because that was old model of Mig-29. Compare newest F-16 with newest Mig-29. The Poles have written several articles on this topic (they have both) - read them first. That "Useless soviet junk" ripping apart your useless american junk.
HomelandProtector 2 weeks ago
@Huselius77 actually the MiG-29 LOST! the F-16 can pull a tighter minimum radius turn than the Mi-29 meaning it could beat it in a dogfight. and because of the fact that it has a better radar AND a lower RCS it could beat it in BVR combat as well. the F-16 is FAR superior to the MiG-29, despite the fact that the MiG-29 was built SPECIFICALLY to destroy the F-16. US aircraft>everything.
hotpocketpoison 1 week ago
@hotpocketpoison I really thought that you were making sense , until the last sentence of your post.
pareli100 6 days ago
@pareli100 it ALL makes sense ;)
hotpocketpoison 6 days ago
mayday mayday !
vuxuanhung 2 months ago
F16
simageorge63 2 months ago
who won?
azulgrana13 2 months ago
@azulgrana13 who stay in behind
simageorge63 2 months ago
I enjoyed this Battlefield 3 gameplay
Boultonnn 2 months ago 22
@Boultonnn gay idiot
ToxicNileX 2 months ago
@ToxicNileX Merry Christmas, buddy!
Boultonnn 2 months ago
@Boultonnn lol
cant seem to recognize is troll or plain stupid
ToxicNileX 2 months ago
@ToxicNileX Haha, 'Plane stupid' I get it, hehe! Was that a joke from you're Christmas cracker?
Boultonnn 2 months ago
@Boultonnn No. Please don't. You guys are worst than the Call of Duty ones.
zillajratomicray 1 month ago
Interesting commercial products, but they don't compare to the specially designed Israeli Lavi, which threatened to put F-16 out of business since the 80s, the Americans HAD to pay Israel to shut the project down, and save the F16 industry.
VERGIS92 2 months ago
fanny o no fanny e la verita se mi capisci anche il mig 21 e all livello del f22 con un radar di ultima generazione migs and sukoy nr 1 .others shet.this its realty
zoran3119 3 months ago
@zoran3119 Google: "For heaven's sake please don't buy the Mig 35" to see why it came in last place in MMRCA. The F-16 was far superior aircraft, including sustained, instant, recovery from bleed rates, and radar.
Russia aircraft have a long way to go to catch up to the West's.
asusucks 3 months ago
@asusucks mig -29A > F-16 ie F-16 is not a fighter and will get shot down. The MIG-29SMT and M upgrades drastically improved its performance. In terms of strike aircraft with range the F-16 is better because it uses a single engine. But in dog fighting the MIG-35 will pwn it. Different Roles they both have. But both need to be retired.
AFosterBoy 3 months ago
@AFosterBoy Purchasing the MiG-35 would mean dependece on a single market. They have already gotten MiG-29k from Russia and alsoSu-30's for air force.....Thus going european they would get different technology transferred to their local industry. No one would by american planes due to their stupid legal agreements. Plus their over priced without transfer of technology. You have to be a real dick to do assness like that
AFosterBoy 3 months ago
@AFosterBoy I suggest that you read the report of the MMRCA competition. The F-16 was superior to the Mig 35 in all areas that mattered most in dogfighting & A2A combat in general: sustained, instant, and recovery from bleed the F-16 excelled. in addition, the F-16's AESA radar made the Mig's look primitive. Seriously, Google: "For heaven's sake don't buy the Russian Mig 35" to get a basic idea of how bad the Mig is compared to Western fighters. + Russia was the only country that
asusucks 3 months ago
was willing to transfer all technology, and offer it's fighter for only a faction of the price of all others, says a lot about the poor state of Russian fighter tech compared to the West's.
asusucks 3 months ago
great boolshets. mig its superior of evry american and others airs.migs nr1
zoran3119 3 months ago
@zoran3119 LOL. U R 2 funny.
asusucks 3 months ago
F16 is a beautiful ferrari while the Mig is brutal lamborghini :)
JednaPiroga 3 months ago
Remember that the Mig 29 was built for taking down the F 16.
Freaky facts
SnemeisProductions 3 months ago
@SnemeisProductions Too bad it never happened! Now that's a fact! Not only that, but the F-16 is still judged today to be a better aircraft than even the suped-up Mig 29, the Mig 35.LOL
asusucks 3 months ago
f-16 is shit front of mig-29
1243dante 3 months ago
MIG 29 IS MUCH BETTER THAN F16
ALAAELDEN10 3 months ago
@4:00 i believe the F16 did a High-Yoyo to keep tail-gating the mig29
skyfrank 3 months ago
Put those jets at 30000 ft and that MIG would eat the falcon alive.
JayRebel 3 months ago
It was the researcher’s experience that the aircraft have comparable initial turning performance. However, the MiG-29 suffers from a higher energy bleed rate than the F-16. This is due to high induced drag on the airframe during high-G maneuvering. F-16 pilots that have flown against the Fulcrum have made similar observations that the F-16 can sustain a high-G turn longer. This results in a turn rate advantage that translates into a positional advantage for the F-16.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
a Fulcrum pilot would not know exactly which F-16 the radar had locked and he can engage only one F-16 at a time.A Viper pilot can launch AMRAAMS against multiple MiG-29s on the first pass and support his missiles via data link until the missiles go active.He can break the radar lock and leave or.. The Alamo is a semi-active missile that must be supported by the launching aircraft until impact.Just as the the Fulcrum pilot gets in range to fire an Alamo, the AMRAAM is seconds away from impacting
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
R-27 had active guided version, hampered by poor radar on early 29s. It was quite comparable to Sparrow.
AMRAAMs should rather be compared with R-77s, and take note: when both types were introduced, F-16s (Taiwan rare ADF variant aside) were not capable of BVR engagements AT ALL. Of course, you can go on an compare MiG-15 to F-22 and brag about western superiority - but what's the point ?
AnteyPL 3 months ago
Russian pilots call their fellow pilots from the West even eight years ago to try to close combat with them and the offer is still valid... yet no one from the West did not agree and as for now, unfortunately there is no notice that someone would dare, and therefore only remains to hope that at some other meetings will be more such performances. Once again, the damage which is staged.
majipatujak 3 months ago
@majipatujak
"Russian pilots call their fellow pilots from the West even eight years ago to try to close combat with them and the offer is still valid."
Provide one ounce of proof. Not that it matters because why would you show all your tech and tactics just for a pissing contest?
Oh wait, there was a challenge for a 1v1 that was accepted. We just watched a video of it. Oh but because the Mig lost it must have been "staged".
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
My respond will be a little bit long so I will mark it with abc :-)
a)I dont consider myself to be an expert but I do follow military aviation technique for over 30yrs.That said, my opinion is that F15 i F16 until the ’80 were absolutely the best planes in everything, and then mig29 and Su27 appeared proving to be the best aircraft for close aerial combat. At the Paris LE Bourget Aero show in 1989 a lot of new manoeuvres were performed and among them Pugachev’s cobra as well.
majipatujak 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
b)Since these elements were disputed by many experts that cannot be used in real combat a few yrs later Pugachev in order to prove that these elements can be used, he called Western colleagues to try close combat. Over the yrs that became practise with Russian pilots with mig29 and Su27. Unfortunately I have not found anywhere in any articles, interviews... that Western pilots expressed the desire to try close combat with Russians.
majipatujak 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
c)When asked by journalist the only respond was: We have 1000 F15 and F16 and Russian only few. So, don’t know what kind of proof you want but if you read any interviews with Russian and Western pilots or retrospective articles made by journalist from all over the word right after aero shows, in some you would find those statements of Russian pilots.
majipatujak 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
d) Maybe the word “staged” is too strong,its not about who has won and who lost the duel.Point is to see real challenge.Let me ask you this:If the Russian pilots who operate on newest mig29 had the F16 from the’80 to trained on and see what the flaws are and how to defeat it and then show close aerial combat those two aircrafts in front of their audience ...Who do you think would win?
majipatujak 3 months ago
@majipatujak
Considering that US pilots get 4 times the amount of flight time and experience per year when compared to their Russian counterparts. That US pilots participate in Red Flag every year while Russians have nothing even remotely close to combat training, I'll bet on the US pilots.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
And perhaps hudred times better than Ethiopians - so frakin' what ? Until 1986 it wouldn't help them anyway, but in good old fashioned way you insist on comparing apples with oranges.
In their respective modernizations, Falcons and Fulcrums are evenly matched (airframes, armament, avionics, and "who wins" is decided by tactics, support infrastructure (tankers, AWACS) to lesser extend - pilot skill.
BTW: name ONE war were SOVIET pilots had to confront enemy BVR :D
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
Soviet A2A missiles have never scored a BVR kill either.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
Again - Phoneix and Sparrows also failed repeatedly.
Where & when Soviets had *ever* had to fight BVR ? In Chechenya ? :D
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyP
What are you talking about? The Iranians scored numerous kills with the Pheonix and Israelis have shot down lots of planes with US missiles.
When have Russian missiles ever scored a BVR kill? I'm not talking about Russian pilots, I'm talking about their equipment. The answer is never.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488 Plenty of times. Take the U2 that was shot down over Russian airspace in the 60's. Granted, the missles were SAM's - but the U2 was flying at around 100,000 feet - well into BVR territory. This exact scenario was repeated in China who used the Soviet SA-2 missile. Even an old Iraqi Mig 25 managed to score a BVR kill of an F/A-18 Hornet! Also, the Mig 31 was designed explicitly for BVR engagement and tests prove that it is highly effective in this role.
scrfce123 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@scrfce123
That's why I said
"Soviet A2A missiles have never scored a BVR kill either."
And the F18 Hornet kill was an IR missile.
SantaClaws488 2 months ago
@SantaClaws488 What did you just say? ....Dude Go do some reading
AFosterBoy 3 months ago
@AFosterBoy
I've read plenty. Heaven forbid I trust the opinions of a pilot who's flown both aircraft.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
"Falcons and Fulcrums are evenly matched (airframes, armament, avionics"
Uh, no.
Again, quoted from a COL who's flown both.
"The lack of SA-building tools for MiG-29 pilots will become an even bigger factor if they have more aircraft to keep track of. Poor radar and HUD displays, poor cockpit ergonomics and poor handling qualities added to the Fulcrum pilot’s workload and degraded his overall SA."
I have much more if you want it.. But it'll ruin all your impressions of the Mig.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
I have no impression to ruin whatsoever; it's actually you who have trouble matching facts in timeline. And quote random biased opinions. MiG-29, when introduced, was superior to any contemporary F-16 which had *no* BVR capability at all. And not long after that MiG development was put on hold for over 2 decades, for obvious reasons. In the mean time F-16 evolved from cheap WVR escort / ground attack to versatile 4+ GEN aircraft.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
Whatever, you brag about the Mig29 data link when all it was when it first came out was truly another radio so that ground controllers could vector the Mig as per Russian SOP. Congratulations, their "data link" performed the same function as a VHF radio.
Like everything that the Russians make, it's hyped up way beyond what it is capable of and ignorant people think it's ground breaking tech.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
Comment removed
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
Dream on :-)
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
Nice instead of responding with facts you just make yourself look stupid. Here's some advice. Just don't respond because "dream on" makes you look like a dumb ass when anyone can research the info and see you're wrong.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AnteyPL
And, btw, the F-16 successfully shot the AIM-7 in 1977. The F-16 did have BVR out of the box. Go google it.
"f-16 aim-7"
First link from google.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
e) Since I thing it would be normal for mig29 to win in front of their audience,would that be real 1on1 challenge?Would it be more enjoyable to watch the best Western pilots with most recent f16 and the best Russian pilots on most recent mig29, no matter who wins?
majipatujak 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
Well, it was - taxpayer wouldn't notice but would be unhappy if new and expensive bird lost. And numerous training engagements were conducted by PAF, pitching F-16s against MiGs-29s in semi realistic (i.e. not airshow) conditions. And results were inconclusive to say the least. Mostly due to experience in flying and guiding MiGs vs. new pilots on F-16s, this time without E-3, F-15s and with the same access to ground control.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
If F-16Cs and MiG-29s face off in aerial combat, both would detect each other on the radar at comparable range. Armed with the AIM-120 AMRAAM, the F-16s would have the first shot opportunity at more than twice the range as the Fulcrums. A single F-16 would be able to discriminately target individual and multiple Fulcrums. The MiG-29’s radar will not allow this. If there is more than one F-16 in a formation, cont.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
Someone noticed smoke from the MiG engine, which is one of the weaknesses of the first variant of this aircraft (can be seen at greater distances in clean sky).On the other hand, this F16 is one of last modification (block 52 or block 60) and this gives him a chance in close combat against this MiG.
majipatujak 3 months ago
@majipatujak
In close combat both planes and pilots are pounded and dead. Period. It's conventional version of MAD.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
Would be a great spectacle that is not staged.But we should be realistic:the fool can expect that the Poles are so stupid,and pushed a finger in the eye to themselves and allies,and really test the aircrafts.
majipatujak 3 months ago
The Russians have NEVER scored a single BVR kill.TRUE
simageorge63 3 months ago
@simageorge63 OFC!! we never see a BVR fight against russian fighter
lassecfc 2 months ago
@lassecfc Yes, every jet has cruise nuclear missiles to score a hit 20km of distance, the max you can do is 8km and that's stupid to fire a missile at that distance. Also, there's no comparison between russian jet tech and USA's. We've seen it in Vietnam where F86s got easily trashed by the migs. Or we can compare the maneuverability of a F22 and a SU37/35/47 or the T50.
r4f4st4n1 2 months ago
Mig-29 FOREVER!
Flanker751 3 months ago
its not the machien that count but the pilot chears :)))
KRAJISNIK21 3 months ago
f16 coalition airforce down MIG 29 over Yugoslavia
simageorge63 3 months ago
@simageorge63
And Iraqi MiG-21s downed Iran's F-14s .... so freakin' what ?
AnteyPL 3 months ago
with high yoyo ,low yoyo nulify his advantage see mirage3 (israIel)vs hawker hunter on dogfights (HISTORY CHANNEL)
simageorge63 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488:you dont kill enemy flying tight circles around him because you slow down , you kill him whit rockets and bulets .
simageorge63 3 months ago
@simageorge63
Uh, if you're at your corner speed or bucket speed you don't slow down. And high yoyos aren't going to work b/c the 29 has worse acceleration and T:W than the F16. Low yoyo are used to extend distance, which is not what eh wants to do. He was trying to force an overshoot.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
0:02 helice de mierda xD
342Rodry 4 months ago
foolish staging, pole didn't ever try to shake 16th off, just rolled like falconry decoy, no speed manipulation, no vertical maneuver. all he need to do havin 2 times lesser wing-load is to speed down and then roll half-barrel. every time 16th loses him go he just starts another wide and smooth turn. lol
CbIHKA73 4 months ago
@CbIHKA73 At this speed and altitude f16 has no chance.
MarkoJagodinac 4 months ago
was this staged. that mig got waxed. that was way too easy.
drod103164 4 months ago
That Mig is smokin' like a chimney. Easy to spot/ predict at close, visual ranges.
jonesy97 4 months ago
@jonesy97
Too bad that in actual combat seeing MiG-29's exaust means that for a while the other aircraft has been tracked by Fulcrums IRST and R-73 is probably few hundred meters away.
Not to mention, that modern variants of MiG-29, F-16s etc. would wipe each other at BVR in any reasonably comparable scenario.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL Of course, but BVR engagements wouldn't make much of a show for spectators. We're talking WWII style dogfights for the public to observe using guns only. That's the purpose of staging this in such a small area at a low altitude.
jonesy97 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
The Russians have NEVER scored a single BVR kill. F16s have much better SA, datalink and ergonomics in their cockpit. That's why the Dutch smoked Mig29s over Kosovo. If you're going to talk about not having radar, you just mentioned below how the Mig29 supposedly has better datalink, which is what would negate having radar because they should be able to feed from other planes or ground controllers.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
Reason why Western AF smoke everything is E-3 + AIM-120 + overwhelming superiority in numbers against poorely maintained, old variants of substandard version equipment. If you had given Dutch MiG-29s (which, again, had datalinks and other stuff you dream about in '80s era F-16s) in such position, result would be exactly the same. Most nations - except USSR - simply didn't have infrastructure (feeders for datalinks, ground control, Awacs etc) around which MiG-29 was built.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
Considering that Mig29s are using PESA awhile US planes have already converted to AESA, no the results would not have been the same.I like how you say "overwhelming superiority in numbers" when it was 2 F15s and 4F16s versus 3 Migs. The Mig29s didn't even shoot.
And Like I said, the Russian missiles have NEVER scored a BVR kill.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
MiG-29s don't use PESAs at all. First variants had good'ol Cassegrain antenna intherited from MiG-23.
Second, very few, if any, USAF F-16 use AESA radars, Third, it doesn't matter - it's who has AWACS that wins. Fourth: is there any reason why you compare early versions of Fulcrums to latest versions of Falcons which - by the way - incorporated many of innovations introduced on Fulcrum c.a decade earlier ?
Fifth: before AMRAAM/R-77/MICA BVR was generally a humbug.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
@AnteyPL
"Lt. Col. Johann Köck, commander of the German MiG-29 squadron from
September 1995 to September 1997, was outspoken in his evaluation of the Fulcrum. “It has no range, its navigation system is unreliable and the radar breaks often and does not lend it self to autonomous operations”, he said. He added that the best mission for NATO MiG-29s would be as a dedicated adversary aircraft for other NATO fighters and not as part of NATO’s frontline fighter force. "
By all means google it.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
The f-15 has killed a few of these in its time. :)
DailyStaley 4 months ago
when MIG 29 pilots maid experience change with F16 pilots they was surprised by the roll rate of F16 banging their heads left and right in the canopy not expected to bee so agressive .this translate in rapid change of directions to avoid gun shots
simageorge63 4 months ago
Low speed is good just for Show, because in real fights you end up in a low energy state(SITTING DUCK for anybody else )and too regain it MUST go Down ,not Up ( predictibile to adversary,not desired) ,high speed is good for maneuver to evade missile in high G susteain break turn (3-9 line up with the missile) too break up RADAR ,release chaff or flare in this time all the way,put some distance ,or position for an attack
simageorge63 4 months ago
@simageorge63 ???Do you think it is easy to lock on somebody?At low speed and altitude.Mig 29 turns incredible and no airplane can match him i close dogfight.
But most important thing all people should know.Mig29 is probably the best dogfight jet only when the adversary pilots are equally skilled.
MarkoJagodinac 4 months ago
@MarkoJagodinac
You're joking right? Two times the Mig29 tried to force an overshoot and failed miserably because the F16 not only turns better both instantaneously/sustained, but has better T:W which is why he was able to high yoyo both times and avoid the over shoot. The funniest part is that F16 is flying dirty with a center tank while the 29 is flying clean.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488 mig29 can turn 360 degrees sideway in 400meters.mig29 can fly 150km/h without stalling.Mig29 can brake sound barrier when climbing.mig 29 can withstand 9G. german pilots kicked american ass in first exercises after soviet union collapsed.
MarkoJagodinac 3 months ago
@MarkoJagodinac
From a pilot who's flown both, this says otherwise.
f-16. net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1836-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-32. html
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@MarkoJagodinac
Or just google this in quotes
"I've got over 500 hours in the MiG-29 and 2000 hours in the F-16"
The Mig29 has always been crap. That's why 11 have been shot down and it's only kills are a cesna and a fratricide.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
Aside that MiG-29 introduced JHMCS, datalink and integrated avionics when F-16 didn't even had BVR capability and it's concepts were promptly copied worldwide ( only earlier aircraft with front sector camera was F-14 but it didn't have laser rangefinder) I'd say, you're bit biased.....
AnteyPL 3 months ago
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SantaClaws488 3 months ago
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@AnteyPL
F16 didn't have BVR capability? Smoking crack much? F16 C/D Block had BVR out of the box.
Like I said, you can google those quotes about 500 flight hours in both aircraft and see how bad the Mig 29 is. There is a reason why it's been shot down 11 times with no answer. There's a reason why your country GAVE away their Mig29s for F16s.
SantaClaws488 3 months ago
@SantaClaws488
You don't honestly believe that flying within visual range of spectators and under airshow safety restrictions is any reasonable measure of aircraft performance ? Also note, that polish MiG-29s and F-16 are basically generation aside and F-16s are factory-new while MiGs are basically 20+ years old.
AnteyPL 3 months ago
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@MarkoJagodinac : I think it is easy to lock on somebody in a F 16 vs another russian fighter
,yes,due to a inteligent (ergonomy ) aranjament of a dash board in cockpit.Russians have more to work on ergonomy .They thinking,more on comonality layout in cockpit on every type of fighter ,soo not want to dramatic change .
simageorge63 3 months ago
Dejense de comentarios idiotas, hasta que no se enfrenten en la realidad no sabremos cual es el mejor.
Martingjimenez 4 months ago
Su-37"Terminator" es mucho mejor que el F-35.
TsSperu 4 months ago
@TsSperu no its not.
asusucks 4 months ago
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TsSperu 4 months ago