God is not a Rapist

[kilkolio]

watch out girls god will come into ur room and rape u

[kilkolio]

religion saves? more like religion slaves

[tomgunc]

To Driscoll: You said to thank Jesus. Please don't sell to me a story that has passed from man to man thousands of years ago. Just cause you got caught in a trap and bought into it doesn't mean that we have to. God is ONE, there is nothing but him and only Him. God has Angels and Prophets and perhaps other things we are not aware of.....but we know that God did not make a son or any family through a human being.

[westbororapist]

That was the opposite of predestination. that was instinct

[DejaPoo909]

According to the bible, God raped a virgin. Even if someone could prove to me that god is real, I would be a satanist because god is an ass.

[tomgunc]

@DejaPoo909 Dude I'm not Christian or a Catholic and I don't believe that Christ is the son of God....but for you to call the Creator of ALL ..... Sir you have some balls. I couldn't and wouldn't do that even if Bill Gates gave me all his money. There is nothing that could make me say that. Wow, I can't get understand why you would say that about God. Hope your life isn't as screwed as I forsee it. Good luck with life.

[DejaPoo909]

@tomgunc Well, it is all true. If I am wrong, then I will face the consequences, but my position will not change.

[jeremiahjbarnes06]

I love Driscoll. He has a lot of good teaching, but sometimes he says things and I just really? Like professing predestination, predestination doesn't jive with an all loving god. I think that the verses that speak of predestination make more sense if you see it as the church being predestined. I talked with a friend who has a bible degree and he says that if you look at the greek in makes more sense in that the church was predestined as well.

[faithandpractice]

Interesting that he says that God is not a rapist in the context of predestination. However let it be known that when it comes to the sovereignty of God, EVERYTHING is determined by God. Nothing happens that is outside the will of God. So then, why does rape happen? It is because God decreed it. It is His will.

[allfornot]

Maybe Pastor Driscoll was predestined by God to NOT learn to ALWAYS keep an eye on his child when loading his car! If you want a better explanation of what the emotional driscoll is trying to convince you of, watch Normal Geisler's "Why I am not a Calvinst" to see how wrong Driscoll is.

[knancy100]

Pastor Driscoll, okay, what if you had two children running toward the highway...would you only snatch one up? What kind of father would do that? I mean, IF he was capable of saving both little rebellious girls...what kind of Dad would, in the doctrine of predestination, only snatch up one daughter, knowing the other would get smashed by the truck.

[RP844985]

Proverbs 3:5-6 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

[CLSchillingMedia]

Okay, but what about the Christian parents who have a child who wonders out in the street, is hit by a truck, and then dies. Do we still call it predestination or do we then call it free will?

[cruiseylee]

lol, this guy is the core of delusion lol

[FollowerOfTheGods]

God may note be a rapist...

But the Old testament sure does make him out to love ordering it...

[OneFaithMinistries]

I do not like Mark Driscoll, but this is a very good illustration.

[belladonna4577]

the whole long story roughly around 1:49-3:58 shows that this man is obviously a loving father. knowing his daughter has free will to do what she wants, but if he somehow has knowledge that she is planning on doing anything that will kill or harm her, he will do anything in his power to save her from a horrible death &/or living the rest of her life critically injured & suffering. i'm sorry to say this but you are SERIOUSLY MISTAKEN about "god."

[belladonna4577]

god allegedly knows every detail about you before you are conceived. he knows the decisions you are going to make growing up, leading to your future. if god is so loving & merciful to all of his children, then why doesn't he try to stop people from making the wrong decisions that he KNOWS will lead us to this horrific place to be tortured forever? if god exists & truly loves us, than why doesn't he interfere in our lives, regardless of us having freewill & save people from eternal damnation?

[lessingtom]

This guy is lying when he says "Let me submit to you that God does occasionally for some in mercy impose his will but it is not as a rapist or a victim but a father on a child who is going to otherwise die." In fact, God MUST impose his will in salvation on ALL the elect because if He doesn't He's not sovereign and as RC Sproul says: If He's not sovereign then He's not God and all who worship a God who is not sovereign, like the unblessed Armenians, are not Christians but Atheists."

[RomansGalatians]

Actually, I would say that God usually imposes PHYSICAL force against those who hate Him.

It's not His normal mode of salvation. Of course Paul got knocked off his horse and blinded. But His salvation is usually not about crossing our wills, but about changing our hearts. Then, we freely choose. No will violation required.

But if he does violently force His hand, He has every right.

[belladonna4577]

@RomansGalatians [if i read your comment wrong, i'm sorry] but you are basically saying that just because he created us, he has every right to do whatever he wants? including, striking people blind, mute & in some cases taking millions of lives because he was angry. lets say my daughter does something that makes me very mad, for example, once she threw a temper tantrum [most kids do] & started throwing toys & broke a few things. do you think it would be correct of me to viciously punish her?

[RomansGalatians]

@belladonna4577 Your daughter is a human, just like you. You did not create her. You didn't create a bug, as far as that goes. God is as far above us as we are to vase.

Among humans, we should not use others as a means to an end. However, God may use us for His own end: to glorify Himself

Just take Him at His Word. Quit making human analogies, using human logic, and trying to apply human moral codes to God. You have no human rights to assert against your Maker. He can USE us as He pleases

[StrumstickJoe]

@RomansGalatians I didn't think god was right in the head - but your version of him is complete lunacy.

I wouldn't have a friend (not even an imaginary one) who demanded that I kneel and worship him.

It's crap isn't it?

It's iuman-made rubbish.

Man created gods in his own image.

[RomansGalatians]

@StrumstickJoe God is a loving Father, kinder and gentler than anyone that you will ever know.

Keep in mind that my comments are in response to someone who fancies that they can rail charges against Him.

You would do much better if you appealed to God's grace, rather than trying to assail his house and trying to TAKE what is His. He is extraordinarily gracious, and if you ask Him, He just might have mercy on you.

But demand your rights against Him? LOL. Wrong way to pray, bro. Wrong way.

[StrumstickJoe]

@RomansGalatians

[StrumstickJoe]

@RomansGalatians 3) ..then pray: Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray that you cure them all, Amen.

Let me know if it works

[StrumstickJoe]

@RomansGalatians 2) What does “assail his house and take what is his” mean? (it’s nonsense)

I don’t understand your last line – dies it have relevance to what I said?

Although, talking of prayer… Read:Mark 11:24:, the words of JC himself:

“Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours” then pray…

[StrumstickJoe]

@RomansGalatians 1) You: “God is a loving father”

Bible: “Whoever does any work on the sabbath day must be put to death” exodus 31:15 (There is a mass of this vindictive stuff in there! In fact – it is full of it!)

How and why would I appeal to god’s grace, when I am firmly of the belief that there is no such thing as a god?

[RomansGalatians]

@belladonna4577 Yet God lavishes us with His grace and love.

But don't for one second start to think that your sinful, wicked self has any right of claim to bring against Him.

[RomansGalatians]

@belladonna4577 "just because He created us . . ." Sheesh.

Just because He gave us everything that we have: our mind, will, soul, eyes, ears . . . and even the ability to apreciate Him and praise Him for what gifts He has given us.

Yeah, just 'cuz of that.

[MsYellow2222]

@RomansGalatians God has given all of us gifts technology or what ever it might be.

[RomansGalatians]

Sure, on occassion God imposes His will externally, with force.  Blam, walls of Jericho flattened.

But the issue of Pre-destination lies primarily in the INTERNAL control of our hearts, which in turn directs our will.

The important thing here is that God is not limited to internal changing of hearts. He is also sovereign over good old-fashioned, external, physical force. And He has every right there, too.

Whine about it; maybe He'll change His mind.

[juralkable]

NAME ONE VERSE WHERE IT SAYS THAT GOD IS NOT MERCIFULL

[geelongmazz]

god raped my dog and killed my cat. he isa rapist!, if he created us, that means he created rapists, which thus means that intern he is a rapist too. he should burn in hell being for thus no mortal man is capable of doing and allowing thisieth to happenth. fuck you GOD! notice how i put in weird bullshit words like they use in the bible to make it seem more real. heres a quote that should be in the bible "on the first day there was man then they created god." ahmen fuck you god!

[nippa69er43]

@geelongmazz wow, wow, wow, wow omg i think i just cracked a fat, u are like jesus but a real one not just some made up wanker who takes it in the ass. that truely is some great shit you said there i want to join your group. god really is a fuckign faggot i agree. speechless about wat u said tho that shit was off the hook. FUCK YEA!

[Nickts03]

It's interesting that Pastor Mark uses the illustration of his child to represent the elect. Remember, if there are some who are elect, then there are some who are NOT elect, which, following his illustration, means that while he chose to rescue his daughter, he chose to NOT rescue his other child, or to PUSH the other child into traffic, because the doctrine of predestination means that God chose to condemn some people beforehand, and save some.

[40518221]

@Nickts03 Absolutely, He chooses not to rescue others.

I think this is where making us look like poor innocent unaware children isn't very accurate. We're born in sin and continue to choose it despite warnings. God owes us no rescue, so the fact he rescues us despite us not even asking for it first is even more amazing.

[Godless4life]

To equate not being perfect to deserving endless torture has got to be mental illness!

For a parent to demand a blood sacrifice for even one false choice is sick.

For a parent to say too a child you didn't listen to me so now the dog must die!

I can't love you since you didn't listen either the dog dies or you go in the oven.

We would lock such a parent up in a mental ward!

We wouldn't give them a Parent of the year award for that!

But you Christian praizse that type mentality?

SICKNESS

[40518221]

@Godless4life

I don't see the metaphor you are trying to draw here.

God isn't just a parent. He is the eternal, perfect creator and king of the universe.

The punishment for sin fits the crime for several reasons:

The crime was committed against the God of the universe, not just a human.

The crime was committed with at least some, if not a very thorough, knowledge that it was wrong.

The crime was continually repeated despite warnings.

God will do fair justice since his glory depends on it.

[Godless4life]

@40518221

For one the Jesus figure does use the parent analogy. Matthew 6:9 The word Father is the Greek word patēr and means father, parent.

Secondly if this God is the creator of the universe it would be a kin to you saying an Inchworm commited a crime against you. That the ichworm didn't worship and praise you so you as an All Loving being are going to set the inchworm on fire.

After all the only purpose of inchworms is to worship and praise you.

This is screwed up thinking!

[40518221]

@Godless4life

If you read my previous comment you'll find I said God wasn't "just" a father - although he is at least that.

I think the difference to an inchworm is that I didn't make that worm. I didn't make it to bear my image and likeness in it's ability to be in relationship with me. I don't deserve anything from it, unlike God, who deserves everything from me because of His innate worth and glory.

If by 'screwed up' you mean contrary to what we're used to thinking, then yes, I agree.

[Godless4life]

@40518221

So you really think your God looks HUMAN!

You seriously think what made the universe looks HUMAN?

This means it isn't a Consciousness or force since neither have physical form and there is no likeness bullshit!

What your God would be, the only thing it could be is an ALIEN RACE!

How many animals have you killed to forgive a child?

[40518221]

@Godless4life

1. Jesus now looks human, yes, but he didn't when he created the world. He was eternal God who 'took on flesh' and became human (without stopping being fully God)

2. An alien race would, by definition, be part of this universe, and as such could not have created it.

3. No, I haven't had to kill any animals, because Jesus has died once for all, the sacrifice to end all sacrifices. He proved it by rising to life again, as hundreds of eye witnesses attested to at the time.

[Godless4life]

@40518221

Something that is Eternal is outside of this Universe and as such is IMPOSSIBLE!

Everything in the Universe is a product of the matter and energy of the Universe. There is Nothing that is outside the Universe that exists in the Universe!

For this reason your God is Impossible!

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

NOTE: FOR HE (MAN) IS ALSO FLESH!!!

[40518221]

@Godless4life

Your reasoning sounds circular.

Can you explain your basis to claim nothing exists outside the universe?

I suggest a Hebrew word study for 6:3, it's not saying 'also' as well as God...

Logically, either something eternal caused the universe to exist (or the chain of action-consequences prior to it) or that the universe is itself eternal. We know from science that our universe is not eternal. That leaves one logical option: something eternal caused it to exist.

[Godless4life]

@40518221

Clearly you are unaware of Quantum Physics and the discoveries about the universe that we have made because of it.

If there would be some consciousness behind the Universe that does not denote the Christian God or any other God as we use the term. Since you can not assume a consciousness would care about human existence! That is human Arrogance / PRIDE!

What a consciousness behind the Universe would point to iis more of a Deistic not a Theistic God thing!

[Godless4life]

@40518221

Yet not one of those SO CALLED eye witnesses Ever came forward in a single writting outside of religious BULLSHIT!

The idea that your God is a Spirit thing only shows you do not understand how ancient people thought and wrote.

Over and over your God is called a Physical being!

Physically walking among people!

You Worship a blood thrusty ALIEN RACE!

[40518221]

@Godless4life

There were many mentions of the resurrection outside the bible, eg Josephus. You should do a search.

You have to realise how these 'ancient people thought and wrote' - they relied far more on oral tradition, which is why not every man and his dog has a biography of their life mentioning the years everyone was talking about Jesus rising again.

Meanwhile, my God is called a spirit: immaterial yet living and personal. Most clearly Jesus said 'God is Spirit' in John 4:24

[Godless4life]

@40518221

Clearly you buy into typical Christian warped thinking.

Josephus can not be called a Witness to your Jesus since he was not born until after this Jesus is claimed to have been dead!

Flavius Josephus 37 CE - circa 100 CE

Given the direction of years lower to higher this indicates that CE is what we would call AD. Since people who lived in the BC time frame are written from the oldest state at their birth and lowest at their death!

[Godless4life]

@40518221

As for this word Spirit that doesn't denote a casper like thing.

The greek word is pneuma and means a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze.

It is only by analogy or figuratively that this superhuman / diivine meaning is applied. Yet you Christian's take it LITTERALLY! Which is clearly inaccurate and not going by what is the real meaning but one you make up because it suits your dogma!

Now who is it using circular reasoning?

[Godless4life]

@40518221

To Demand someone Think as you say or be tortured that is directly in line with what a Rapest does!

A rapest says have sex with me or i will force you.

Your God says love me / Think what i say or I'll torture you!

The two are from the same abusive vein!

Further more you can not say that someone who doesn't think like Your Religion demands will send themself to a burning pit of fire given no one would do this in life!

No one Tortures themself!

Not One Person!

[Godless4life]

@40518221

What really shows mental illness in Christian's is the idea that if you are not perfect that it is good and just and right for a God to demand a Blood Sacrifice.

How many animals blood have you demanded be spilled t pay for the sins of a child?

If us acting this way is wrong, evil, Sinful then why does it suddenly become good and Righteous for a God to behave in exactly the same manner?

With more power comes More responcibility Not LESS!

[Godless4life]

Being lucky enough to grab a child from in front of a car in not predestination.

Predestination means to decide before hand!

You made no decission before your daughter was born to set up those chain of events only for you to pull her back at the last minute.

If this God predestinates where we go this Heaven or Hell then we have no choice since it is Predestinated!

It is deturmined before we are born!

Hence No Freewill!

There is no two ways about this!

[K1LLB1LLY]

thats so lame that you have to defend your god of this

[upgradecheese]

God is a Rapist 

[rubencardenas121]

This is one of the best and most accurate illustrations of God's grace in election (which he owes to no sinner who has ever lived on this planet or ever will, even me). Grace is always a tremendously scandalous and beautiful thing.

[cornwallsteve]

@rubencardenas121 God owes salvation to noone - you are right, but he is patient waiting for people to choose him. IT will bever be laid to God's charge in eternity that he could have done more to save anybody. The responsibility for out life rests with us, and our response to his provision and call. God says he puts before us life and death, then tells us to choose life. There is no scandal in God, or his methods!

[40518221]

@cornwallsteve

The only problem is that we don't, and can't, choose life because our sin has ruined us. The more we sin the 'harder' our hearts grow toward God and we won't choose him on our own. That's why we need his grace. That's why in heaven we won't be boasting that we made the right choice while everyone else didn't. We'll only be thanking God for saving us when we couldn't save ourselves.

[cornwallsteve]

@40518221 (Acts 17) God has made of one blood all nations of men in order to dwell on all the face of the earth.. That they should seek the Lord, if lest by any means they might feel after him, and find him, though he is not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being... Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God... And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent:

God's will is for ALL men to repent.

[cornwallsteve]

@rubencardenas121 Driscoll it seems, believes in double predestination - And he teaches that nothing happens without God making it happen - Go figure.... What about the brutal rape and murder of innocent children... Who contrived these events? Certainly not God!

[40518221]

@cornwallsteve

It's very hard to consider isn't it?

I think you need to start with the realisation that God is not the same as us. He can allow something to happen even though it is evil and He very much hates it. He has his reasons and will put all things right in the end. God is good, all the time.

[cornwallsteve]

@40518221 You say someone can't come to God as their sin prevents it, and so God must draw a man to salvation. Well the Bible tells us that God has enlightened EVERY MAN who comes into the world - (John 1:9) Are you saying that the enlightenment Christ gives all men is deficient in some way? Of course not. But in folly men resist the Holy Spirit unnecessarily. (Acts 7:51)

cornwallsteve 4 minutes ago

[retardbosse]

He's totally a rapist

[robaquarian]

even if marks sick god did exist hell would be preferable. then have to be a child and slave to the megalomaniac. who would want to spend eternity with this asshole? god is worse then a rapist. if you think you deserve hell just for being born you are a week minded idiot. mark teaches fear guilt and blind obedience the guise of being "cool".he is just as bad as the repressive christian assholes of the middle ages. who would want to be in heaven with dip shits like this for eternity?

[robaquarian]

his god is a rapist and a psychopath. in the bible god orders rape as war booty in Numbers 31. he is also a baby killer,and sadist that loves human sacrifice. why should he care if his daughter runs into the street, wont his god save her? if hes a nice guy why let any kids die? i say kill the father and fuck obedience. christianity appeals to the weak minded. human beings do not deserve death and damnation. what kind of loving god demands adulation with the threat of eternal torture?

[lokhtar]

God was one angry manipulative fuck when he was a bachelor. Then he raped that biatch and got stuck supporting the kid. Who turned out to be a hippy. I've read the book.

[occultdude17]

"God imposes his will not as a rapist on a victim, but as a father on his child."

Um... so God's a paedophile too? Who is he, Josef Fritzl? That's the most fucked up argument I've ever heard. It doesn't matter HOW God abuses us or WHAT his reasons are, it's still wrong.

God is an abusive prick, case closed.

[5355vbxjbj76rvn]

Josef Fritzl committed incest - not (AFAIR) paedophilia.

Why does this man make hell and death and judgement sound so inviting :) ?

[Stoerm27]

@occultdude17 You never actually paid any attention to the rest of the video did you? You may disagree with Predestination and that is ok, but you completely misunderstood what Pastor Mark was saying or twisted it to what you wanted to hear. Stop trying to twist truth you only force yourself to look ignorant of it.

[daddylister]

it,s amazing what people will say to get some $ and get on tv...wow rofl .

[daddylister]

yeah............. your on tv...... but it still don,t change the fact the bibble is full of crap.......AND your god is a rapist. i,ve read the bible and the crap about the angel giving mary some bullshit msg, but i,ve also read a lot of convicts debts and there full of shit as well very similar. another thing, what god lets people blow thereselfs and other people up in his name....... tbh god is for the week, sad and brain washed sheep. keep your rapist and keep your suicide bomber

[Hoylus]

Quick thought -

why doesn't God save everyone from the truck?

Some of the kids he let's run into the road?

Some father if so...

[SPECKofGOD]

no clue of who or what God is.

[lewisner]

Is this a satire or does he really believe this crap?

[jleu777]

Actually that is HALF OF predestination.

I'd like to hear the illustration from the point of view that his daughter was one of the UN-elect in which he could have easily prevented his daughter from dying but let her get smashed by the truck. Then say "thats predestination! thats the goodness of God"

[1689Baptist]

Then she would have been smashed by the truck. The problem with you is you realy dont think you deserve to go to hell some how God owes you something.

[jleu777]

One month thinking up a response and thats all u came up with? Sad

1st his statment doesnt even deny the rapist claim

2nd its a pure emotional argument but he left off the ugly half of predestination so even that is a lie.

Your god is still a rapist: he forces people to believe and love him with no choice.

And UNLOVING. Because if his daughter was smashed by the truck when he could have easily saved her he surely doesnt love her.

[1689Baptist]

1month?This is the first time I have seen this.Rapist? Well God reached down snatched me from hell I sure didnt think it was rape.If you think it was rape maybe you need to get saved.

[1689Baptist]

There is no ugly half of predestination. God will save ALL His children from wrath, there will never be even one of His children go to hell. All those that go to hell (get smashed by a truck) are not His children they were never His children & they cannot choose to be His child,b/c they HATE God.They deserve the wrath of God. So,UGLY,NO, everything God does is Glorious, PRAISE HIS NAME FOREVER.

[1689Baptist]

Also you have this idea that God loves everyone,and Jesus will cry on judgement day as the sinners whom He loves are cast into hell,NO,NO,NO, God HATES ALL who are not His children.All of creation will rejoice on that day when God rids the earth of sinners.

[LightButDark575]

Your statement is very flawed...God loves ALL because ALL are God's children. He made every human being in his image and likeness. To say that He hates something He created out of love is complete idiocy.

[1689Baptist]

LightButDark575

Then you dont understand God

[daddylister]

nice post, i totaly 100% agree that god is a rapist the bible trys to hide it but the fact is he raped and his son is the son of a rapist.

[tkjaros]

I'm sorry, I know I'm gonna get a bunch of replies...

He doesn't even respond well to the objection. It's a red herring.

The conclusion one makes is that, if God is a rapist, at least he is a good, polite, caring rapist.

[MrDwigt]

You call correcting a misappropriated analogy a "red herring"? The point is that a rapist imposes his will to do harm. a father imposes his will to save. God save us from ourselves. The rapist analogy says the exact opposite.

[tkjaros]

MrDwigt, what if the child does not want to be saved? Suppose that the child grows up and makes godless, wicked choices. That child, and other children, "since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them OVER to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done" (Rom 1:28). I'm tiring over Calvinists' poor analogies and poor rhetoric to win people.

Furthermore, the god of Calvinism is not all-loving. He is some-loving. My God is more powerful than that.

[CASSMAN777]

Where in the Bible does it say God is all loving?

[AnonFore4]

I love you!

[MrDwigt]

No one wants to be saved by sheer grace. That is humiliating. especially in few that God had to do it at infinite cost to himself. Everyone is in the same boat. So... yeah... nobody with an iota of pride wants to be saved, on God's terms at least.

Your God is more powerful huh? How can a nebulous all-loving well-intentioned god be powerful if he doesn't take any initiative?

[tkjaros]

MrDwigt, the nebulous all-loving well-intentioned god is powerful enough to take initiative. You see just because I believe man has a part to play, doesn't mean I believe man started the salvation process.

It is God who took initiative by providing the ultimate sacrifice. It is he who initiates by offering us the free gift, as well as commanding us all to repent. That seems like initiation to me!

[MrDwigt]

Good. Then you and I are not very different in the end. Both you and Calvinists agree God takes the initiative. Both Calvinists and you agree that man is active, participatory in the process.

From there it seems philosophical speculation to me. It gets to questions of "self-actualization", "free will", "different wills of God", and all the other philosophical mind farts that both teams use to cloud that fact that obviously there is a little mystery in God's sovereignty & mans responsibility.

[dreamissbehaved]

His analogy is right, but what is the point of evangelists/missionaries if some people are just "elected"?

The other problem with this is that most teachers get this "election" business from Romans: 9-11 when it clearly talks the re-adoption of Israel. Reading that passage, I don't see how you could interpret it ANY OTHER way. It is clearly about Israel.

[Mulder18]

Moreover, Predestination is not similar to physical restraint as his analogy suggests. Calvinism maintains that God's "irresistible grace" not only prevents the consequences of our actions, but also changes our internal disposition. When you save your daughter, she sees your love and must choose to respond in obedience of disobedience in the future. However, a better analogy would be hypnotizing your children so they "love you" and "choose" not to disobey.  That is force, not love.

[simone56]

I would even clarify that statement more to say rape is not love at all, but an act of selfish lust. This is NOT what God is doing when he saves the elect, it is the ultimate act of love to sacrifice yourself for those who are not deserving like us.

[Mulder18]

Of course, for Calvinists you have no choice but to run into traffic because people are just too "evil." However, evil makes no sense unless you have free choice. Calvinist is absurd.

[vivalanation734]

Your grammar is absurd.

[simone56]

So if you had the choice not to sin could you... of course not, because what you miss is that your free will is controlled by the sinful nature if it is not in submission to God.

Adam and Eve had a choice in the garden, and you know what we would not have done any differently. By their decison they gave God no choice but to die on a cross because our ways were so wicked and vile.

Now I don't say I am a total Calvinist, ut I definitely do not describe to the thoughts of Armenialism either.

[watruf1]

Do you comprehend the spiritual analogy? People " run into the streets" because they want to. Driscoll's example explains that mans will is corrupted by sin. All of mankind is like that little girl who wants to run into traffic. By their own "free will" they choose sin. They do not choose Christ because they have already chosen what matters most to them: sin.

[Mulder18]

Sorry about the typos in my original post. My larger point still holds. Calvinism maintains the doctrine of total depravity. This means that man, by his very nature, cannot help but sin. The problem here is that such a person is not responsible for their actions. If someone goes insane and they curse their parents, we rightly blame the disease and not the agent. Thus, neither should be blame the agent who is born into a state of depravity.

[xChAn3lx]

What he is trying to say is that we as people are soo sinful that we know what is wrong but we still go ahead and sin.. God did not predestine rape.. Rape happens as a result of sin because someone soo greedy they just want to fufill their own fleshly desires..

When God calls us to him he gives us a choice... life or death.. even if we are adopted into the family.. if u were a mother.. even to an adopted kid.. u would do ur best to make sure that he/she is safe at all times.. thats how God is

[Argle2]

He didn't finish his analogy. He forgot the part where he lets another kid (that he says he cares about but doesn't...?) run into the street and DIE.

("But that other kids' not his child" -- We're all adopted. God has the means to adopt anyone/everyone)

Also, the rape thing is rape vs true sex. Aka, forcing us to love God vs us choosing to respond to and love God.

[ambassadorinchainz]

hahaha the question was not if God predestines rape it was that if God predestines people to be saved rather than the arminian view that people choose God's grace, isnt that God forcing himself upon us. Hence the term rape.

[Battle4Truth]

Who was the welling known teacher? Rob bell?

[xxchapstique]

Norman Geisler

[PunkStevo7]

a great explanation of biblical truth

[michaeljanet2008]

Passionate, yes. Effective in answering the question? No. The question was/is: If God predestines everything, then he predestines rape. His illustration with his daughter, while passionate and wonderful as an act of mercy toward his child, has nothing to do with the original question: If God predestines everything, then does he predestines rape? Calm down for a moment, dude, and articulate yourself in ways that actually have substance, not simply angst and emotional energy.

[thereguritence]

I agree. He missed the point.

[Dougeroma]

If God predestines everything then does He predestine rape? Yes or evil would not be. God predestined the fall of the human race in Adam from which such sins as rape flow. Why pick rape as a particular evil? Rape is a mere peccadillo compared to the murder of the Son of God. And yet that most evil of acts was predestined by God (Acts 2:23;4:28) to come to pass thru wicked hands. A fortiori - if God predestined the greatest evils then He surely predestined the lesser ones (Lam.3:37-38).

[DesertlifeChurch]

i love this! soaked with truth! my life is living proof this is true. those who mock- realize this my, running into streets screaming "i dont believe in trucks" wont change the reality that they exist. note: its the same with God.

[geelongmazz]

biggest scam ever made and still goin y dont u stupid people wake up and stopin ur time theres no god (b sides me) has he ever done anything 4 get out of the dream world u might as well all b a big group of stoners.....NO SUCH THING NOOOOOO GOD!!!!! LOSERS STUPID

[Nascar24ms]

good luck being right forever..

[terriergal]

Jesse, I agree up until that last sentence about free will. God indeed works through his word to convert our wills unto him. But I would challenge you to freely now 'reject' him if your will is indeed free.

[vernaholic]

you ever noticed that calvinists use an analogy of a parent for the "elect" but never for the ones that arent?

And then i run to the road and kicked her in front of the huge truck

for me as her parent i get to choose that i have other kids i love and she wasnt worth my time

makes sense right haha

true love requires freedom period

otherwise its not true love

[StaticFilter2]

I'm not arguing, so please don't take it as that. Can you tell me how you came to know the Lord?

[vernaholic]

if you mean how i came to know of him i was raised in a christian home

now if you mean personally

i asked him in my heart something like the sinners prayer

i felt ya know the tug of the holy spirit

how come you ask?

[terriergal]

By what message did you feel that tug?

[terriergal]

Free will uhuh That's why Paul says he is now a bondservant of Christ.

[vernaholic]

if youve ever studied the old testament about earrings

back when a slave would be let go if he felt like he wanted to stay a slave to his master than go out on his own he would either keep his earrings or put earrings in his ears

when paul says he is "now" a bondservant of Christ doesnt mean he always was even when he was trying to kill christians

believe me i used to be a calvinist and besides open theism i think it is the next best explanation even better than armenism

[Oct31st1517]

Wrong. Calvinism and gnosticism are 2 different schools of thought. You cannot refute our doctine with scripture, so you have to make something up like this. Would you like to debate mo on calvinism?

[rickyboy222]

our will is toward sin and death. The elect were predestined for the likeness of Christ (rom 8:29) and then the elect present God's grace to others for the Holy spirit to convert. God saving you from hell is not rape. Nothing like. If someone is running to sin (your will) and God saves you, changes your heart and gives you grace, that is good, not bad.

[Oct31st1517]

Jesse, I don't say this often to people, but I think I heard enough of your teaching to say, YOU ARE A HERETIC. Love is voluntary? My children love me BY NATURE because I am their father. Your God is a begger, and a wimp. Not the sovereign LORD of the universe. My the Holy Spirit open your eyes and grant you repentence. Amen.

[fineputinpogo]

it all has to do with what happens first: grace or faith. and to think faith can somehow happen before grace is ridiculous. God gives grace. we don't choose grace.

[revholland1]

Man's will is in bondage to sin. 'But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.' 'No man can come unto me except the Father which sent me draw him.' Check out these verses, please!

[kokoshig1]

Who was that Bible teacher on the radio?

[thedudeabides76]

I hate this God that created people only to destroy them. Why preach if the people are already chosen? Why try to avoid sin if you are chosen. Why bother trying if you are already damned before you were born. This evil God, is a murderer not a rapist. God wants everyone to be saved. He knows who wont accept forgiveness and who will, but they werent predestined for anywhere. That pyramid necklace is weird too.

[terriergal]

We preach and testify about God because that is what saved people do and that is how God ordained that his elect should be saved. Read Romans 9.

[vernaholic]

you ever noticed that there is alot in the bible that contradicts ya know like salvation by grace and then the books of james continually says works

thats how i view romans 9 soo much of the new testament "seems" to contradict not that it does just the way i understand it is probably wrong

tell me how you connect God with calvinism when God is love and some people have no chance of life

i hope this doesnt come off bad just trying to get ya thinking

love in christ

vern

[terriergal]

Why do you pray to a God who has no power to change any human's will?

Read Romans 9.

[vernaholic]

dont you think there was thousands of people praying for hitler to stop the holocaust as just one of many examples i believe God can move on someones heart but force someone i dont think he would

i have read romans 9 and the rest of the bible that seems to contradict it out of the whole bible you have one chapter that you interpret as predestination

what about the rest

Use common sense and say to your self "God is love" and think of how a loving God would predestine people to hell

[Firebird3509576]

Common sense or God sense??? Once again... looking through the eyes of fallen man. Also, remember first rule of hermeneutics is context. You mentioned James and Romans. James was written to a predominately Jewish Church that would have understand salvation related in terms of works because of Judaism. Rome was a Jewish church that became Gentile during the Diaspora and thus the discourse in 9-11 is showing continuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Good questions!

God Bless

[Firebird3509576]

Another good question. Prayer changes us more than it does God (immutability). Our will is aligned with God's as we pray. Pray has a bad rep. of being this thing where ask God for all this stuff. Prayer is supposed to be an intimate time spent with God that helps us understand God's will for us. That helps us ask for the right things. However, reconciling free-will with predestination, as you hinted at, is more complicated, than 500 words allows.

Good question, it's stimulating.

God Bless!

[fron052]

I read Romans 9 and it does not say God doesn't have the power to change human will it doesn't even talk about that. Romans 9 is saying that ppl can't make God do what ever they want and shouldn't expect God to. The point of Romans 9 is that God is God and is free to do as God chooses. Paul isn't saying that God chooses to send ppl to hell just that God doesn't depend on man's desires or efforts in his choice.

[Firebird3509576]

Good Question! !!The question is whether or not you truly believe in a sovereign God? If you believe that God is sovereign, then there is no question b/c He is God & capable & justified in doing whatever He wants. The problem is that Calvinism infringes upon our sense of justice. "How can God really be just and allow..." (fill in the blank). However, we understand the infinite justice of God through finite minds and that is where the problem begins. Does that make any sense bro'??

[vernaholic]

i believe God is sovereign in every sense of the word

however he gives us free will.I dont believe he had to but that he chose to

one of the biggest problems with calvinism is that it says God controlled every choice making someone kill or love

now if you control every choice and you make someone do something bad arent you to blame at least a little

God is just and calvinism just seem like total opposites regardless of the mindset

[fron052]

I've read the book of james and it says nothing about doing good things/works and then God will love u or forgive/forget ur sins and let u in to heaven. Cuz that's what works means. James wrote his book to remind Christians to practice their faith, it in no way contradics salvation by grace.