Naomi Klein on Avi Lewis, Milton Friedman, The Take, and Keynesian Economics (2009-4)

[squamish4244]

The problem with Friedman is he became an idealogue. He laid out policy prescriptions like a rulebook and his stance only hardened with his increasing popularity. It was his way or the highway - everyone else had it wrong.

[jozzo6]

@squamish4244 And what was wrong with his "policy"?

[Zatzzo]

friedman was just another free market lunatic. just one epic fail.

[publicanimal]

She's an idiot. She says "Friedman's ideas weren't original. He was part of the University of Chicago tradition". HE DEFINED THE CHICAGO TRADITION YOU NUMBSKULL.

[LogicalFlawDetector]

What a dumb bitch! 

[H1TMANactual]

LOL Naomi Kelin is the biggest fail on the planet. Who even takes her seriously??

[squamish4244]

@H1TMANactual A lot of people can't take Friedman seriously anymore either.

[H1TMANactual]

@squamish4244 Maybe not YOU. Which is irrelevant. All economist take him seriously.

[amamerc]

Her appearance and her voice belie her imperfect nature. I think she may be conveying some guilt in her voice. The first bit of the Shock Doctrine is almost unbearable to read, but gets better afterward, after you become inured to her style. 6:40+ shows you that Keynesianism isn't perfect. A system which calls for endless money printing and spending is very far from perfect, to say the least. And no idealism can fix corruption and ignorance.

[StevenSilverman]

Milton Friedman's ideas do not advocate bank bailouts, unneccessary military adventures and big, expensive govt (which is lobbied by corporations). Naomi Klein is perverting his legacy after his death in an anti-intellectual and inflammatory way. Her writing is based on limited, selective facts and is not an academic study in any way - see Johan Norbergs critque on the web.

[Ooftyman]

"You don't have any Keynesian disciples in that way..."

...Uh... BABHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAAAA­AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHHAHA...

[AntiChrista4WPeace]

Milton Friedman=Edward Bernays=Cancer of Society

=New Operational quest.

=Naomi Klein!

NamasTE.

[davehutchinson67]

To me..the first few comments appear to be from the extreme righties...the apologists for the neo cons and their extreme policies. Sad for all of you kiddies...But her representations are based in FACT, not fantasy. She tells of the history...FACTS...not innuendo, not supposition, not some left wing fantasy..and quite frankly, I'm a little tired of the right/left dichotomy. It's time we took back our country from these crazy corporate loons..

[paulstroie]

Milton Friedman is mad on her?=)) LOLOLOLOLOL... does she realize Milton died in 2006???(God bless him)

[TheFlano98]

How about anyone who thinks her stupid should maybe read her book?

[baronmorris]

Naomi Klein is smarter than all of her critics. She is awesome. You are not.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@nonpartpundit Canadians are fairly conservative? Hmmm, my experience with them has not been one of their bastion of conservative thought. And I stand by my statement. She is dangerous to freedom and true capitalism

[GnomesAmok]

@SuperGuitarman69

LOL @ "dangerous to freedom" you know people who say that shit are the ones who are really "dangerous to freedom"

[SuperGuitarman69]

@GnomesAmok Hardly, she is a part if a larger problem... Washington DC is full of these type of people who have infiltrated our government, that is bashing our economy with their ideology... Which makes the dollar worthless and our freedoms economically and civil at stake.. Do the country a favor... Be quite and don't vote... We are in this mess due to people like you

[GnomesAmok]

@SuperGuitarman69

No sir. I think you are dangerous to freedom. I think your ideology is bashing our economy, I think people like you who don't think about the consequences of your politics and only care about themselves and the "debt" and their taxes are the reason we are in this mess. In fact, I dont just think, I know it, based on the evidence: history. Recessions are caused over and over by market-based solutions which only produce enormous market failures. Alan Greenspan admitted it.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@GnomesAmok Do you know anything about economics? You think I am political?? I have a degree in economics.. I am NOT paid by any political party.. And Alan Greenspan and Bernanke are the enemy of the United States of America.. Do you understand that your average business man. Including Apple and Exxon are citizens of the United States? They are NOT the enemy.. They are our friends.. The enemy is government and the Federal Reserve.. At will they effect the economy.. Every single time Part 1

[SuperGuitarman69]

@GnomesAmok Part2 they step in to "so called" create "fairness" or "equality" it messes up the win win scenario's of the market.. Let me give you a simple minded example.. If you buy a loaf of bread.. You don't lose you get the bread.. The owner of the store wins he makes a profit.. The maker of the bread win he sells it to the market. The maker of the wheat wins he sells it to the bakery.. You economic illiterates out there who actually think business owners are evil make me sick to my Part2

[SuperGuitarman69]

@GnomesAmok Part3 stomach with your ignorance.. You are TOLD to hate them.. That they are evil.. By whom? By the elite who own the banks.. Who is their #1 supporters.. The leftists.. The liars that will tell you they are for the poor.. Who NEED the poor to stay poor to get votes.. Now, onto something else you need to understand.. Class warfare.. You say, "soak the rich, they have the money". Now the reality.. Not ONE SINGLE DIME collected in income taxes is appropriated. What does that Part 3

[SuperGuitarman69]

@GnomesAmok Part4 That means that the government cannot legally use that money for anything.. Income taxes ARE ILLEGAL.. It has NEVER came before the supreme court.. Now, where does that money go if it is not appropriated.. Ready? Get ready to here your class warfare end.. TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE TO PAY THE INTEREST ON THE DEBT WE CAN NEVER PAY OFF!!!! It is a ponzi scheme. When Bernanke or Greenspan speak? They are lying.. SO YOUR IGNORANCE IS THE DANGER YOU ASSHOLE..

[GnomesAmok]

@SuperGuitarman69

You are a selfish toolbag

[treysparker]

She doesnt know anything about Friedman and yet attacks his views lol. Shes a joke.

[qwertypoiu4321]

Naomi Klein is an incoherent moron.

[hugoegbert79]

Trolls could not be less interesting if they tried.

[arzoyan]

Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated MARKET SYSTEM OF ARTIFICIAL SCARCITY ,a tyrannical,destructive system to perpetuate poverty and exploitation in the interest of the ruling class. Capitalism from its Genocidal killings of native Americans to the mercantile plundering and enslavement of African natives to its Millitaristic rise of European Powers to World wars and Financial serfdom of the world has been a DISASTEROUS imposition .

[Braindrain3]

I have no idea why all of you are so against an economic system that is set up to benefit all, not just the top 1%? What freedman promoted was a system run from the top down where in theory the tope 1% would create jobs and so on. Look at the US economy today, where is this theory in practice? No Where. It is a complete failure unless you are part of the top 1% than its Xmas every day and for all others it is hell. Try to refute it, you can't. Peace and equality

[cordrenkin]

I also have a degree in economics and this chick is just laughable. Chile was running hyperinflation and was on the verge of collapse in the 1970's, and where is it now? Low inflation, one of the highest gdp per capita in latin america and also the best credit rating. There are no more "true" keynesian economists left. The stagflation in the 1970's across europe and the U.S. put an end to that. the phillips curve is gone, and empirical eveidence for spending multipliers is just not there

[kkm312]

Expert after expert, not to mention what we can all SEE and have experienced, shows that this 'supply side economic model' is a complete failure.

The U Chgo economics department should be cordoned off and treated like a toxic waste dump for 10,000 years.

[kkm312]

Of course, Friedman (& Ayn Rand) acolytes are upset. Greenspan (almost) admitted it: his entire world view has proven to be FALSE. Anyone who's looked at what happened in Argentina could see the parallels to what's being employed now in the US.

[kkm312]

Of course, Friedman (& Ayn Rand) acolytes are upset----Greenspan (almost) admitted it: his entire world view has proven to be FALSE. Anyone who's looked at what happened in Argentina could see the parallels to what's being employed now in the US.

[ebw343]

Naomi Klein is to economists as an astrologer is to astronomers.

[JonasFrimodt]

"he was part of the chicago school tradition" WTF+?????? he defined the chicago school you ignorant bitch

[grapevine808]

Naomi Klein has the intellect of a 7 year old child.

[ebw343]

@grapevine808

That's really rude to 7 year old kids.

[ebw343]

@grapevine808

That's really rude to 7 year old kids.

[19TEC85]

7:36 LOL !!!!! You should spend your way out of it? Lets all spend our way to prosperity ! Why is their any poor countries? Don't they know all they need to do is print up a bunch of papers with numbers and spend their way out of poverty!

[higfny]

the first words to spring to mind is "intellectual lightweight".

[SuperGuitarman69]

Why does anyone listen to her? Why is she mainstream? I have a degree in economics. She has no economics experience. If a country would follow her pop suedo economic ideas, they would surely fail. I wish a country would.

[ophelieramboud]

@SuperGuitarman69 C'mmon man, she does not write about economics; she writes about economic journalism (you and I, and all the economists understand this big diference), and I think her books are functional. Her economic ideology is respectable, just as yours. If you read the shock doctrine, Naomi explains she was adivsed in monetary policy, so do not try to find notable economic ideas by reading her book. Just enjoy criticism!!

[SuperGuitarman69]

@ophelieramboud I have no dog in the fight of opinions. What I object to is she actually tries to speak on economics as an expert. Trying to take down Milton Friedman etc... She does not have the credentials to ride on to do so. Milton Friedman won the Nobel Price. For actual economic theories. I am sorry to sound harsh, but perhaps before every interview she should make that disclaimer and concede her actual knowledge of the subject. I respect actual economists even to which I disagree

[spgtgb]

@SuperGuitarman69 The subject is not just economics the subject is public policy and the role of government.

Your argument is analogous to saying that one that is not an atomic bomb expert does not qualify to criticize bomb's affects on society.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@spgtgb Incorrect. She is passed off as an economist. This isn't necessarily her fault. But the left (masters of illusions) passes her off as this. Then try to compare her to an intellectual "true" genius such as Milton Friedman. The thing of it is though. When you are able to do back and forth self analysis between differing view points between Friedman and Klein it is obvious to anyone with common sense that Milton is correct and she is off her rocker. That is the beauty of the net.

[FletchforFreedom]

To the contrary, Klein is specifically advocating one economic system and demeaning another which might have some credibility of she had any background in economics and had not repeatedly demonstrated a lack of integrity with regard to her statements. Economics encompasses public policy and the role of government so your analogy does not hold. Further, the issue is not that she is not qualified as a layman to criticise economics but that her criticisms are so idiotic.

[spgtgb]

@FletchforFreedom This not the way I see it. She is providing and graphic depiction of the extremes a system can go to achieve it objectives. M. Freidman was looking for a way to validate his economic theories. I have no issue with that. I take exception with the fact that he chose to do it on the backs of the Chilean people when they could have no say on it.

[FletchforFreedom]

Jeez! Not the "on the backs of the Chilean people" lie again. It's a fabrication; it NEVER happened. Friedman was NEVER an advisor to Pinochet nor did Pinochet adopt Friedman's (or ANY neo-liberal policies). He asked Friedman ONE question to which he responded in a letter with anti-inflationary suggestions which ultimately ended the hyperinflation begun by Allende's policies. Freidamn vocally CONDEMNED the oppressive policies of the regime.  Naomi Klein is a proven liar.

[spgtgb]

@FletchforFreedom I feel bad that what I write here agitates you as it is obvious from your responses. I said all I had to say on this matter. Other readers -- if they want to bother--- can do heir own research and decide for themselves.

[FletchforFreedom]

No need to feel bad. Eductae yourself. Stupid people have been making the ignorant ill-informed claim about Friedman since even before Klein's book came out. Anyone possessing two brain cells and access to the interbet can do the research and quickly discover, as I said, that Klein has no scruples about lying her ass off. She even includes the one bit of correspondence between them (well after Pinochet took power) in her book (though she implies, dishonestly, that there was much more).

[spgtgb]

@FletchforFreedom You seem to be a troubled person. You should consider professional help.

[FletchforFreedom]

You;re projectibg. I appreciate the concern but there is nothing "troubled" bout being informed and having a grasp of the concepts under discussion. It's really quite simple. One can choose to believe essentially anything said by Naomi Klein or one can demonstrate the ability to do basic research, think rationally and have a connection to reality. The options are mutually exclusive.

[shaqdaddy11]

@SuperGuitarman69 I cant agree with you more. I just finished my MBA and while talking to a friend of mine, i mentioned Milton Friedman. My friend says "oh hes a nobody, you should see how Naomi Klein destroys his ideas". So i figured ok Naomi Klein must be an economist. So i start listening to her speeches n interviews and she make no real economic sense. So im thinking "what the hell kinda economist is she". Well, when i see her wiki page turns out shes has no economic edu at all.

[shaqdaddy11]

@SuperGuitarman69 Yet, she is held up as some sort of expert on economics and business. what a joke.

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 you must have received your economics degree from a cereal box. Have you taken the time to read the Shock Doctrine or researched Keynesian economics and theory and applied that to real world results? Have you compared Keynesianism to freedman economic theory and its real world consequences? If you have than the results are clear. If you fail to recognize the clear distinction between the two than your degree is as worthless as your opinion.

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 The US actually followed her "ideas" with Keynesianism during the New Deal and that was the most prosperous period in US history. Massive growth in middle class, low unemployment, high wages, purchasing power, etc., etc. Now, shrinking middle class, stagnated and decreasing wages, high unemployment, high costs, etc. etc. Do the math.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 Keynesian philosophy has ruined the country. We are swimming in a mountain of debt. And are you implying she was around for the "new deal" (raw deal)? You must be joking. Gold was roughly 22 an ounce and was for hundreds of years. Health care and education was affordable, now it is through the roof. Gold is now at 1400 an ounce and we have hyper inflation within 100 years. Keynesian economics is poison. It will go down as one of the worst economic ideas in the history of economics.

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 You have just validated my point. When exactly has the mountain of debt, health care and education costs gone through the roof? Over the last 30yrs with the implementation of Freedman's laissez faire economic reforms. Tax cuts, privatization and militarism has destroyed the US and will continue to do so. Have you paid attention to causes of this recession? I was not implying she was around for the new deal, just the fact that what she speaks of was prevalent within the time.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 Are you complete moron? Oh sorry rhetorical question. The only thing our government has responsibility to provide is defense. 2/3rds of our entire discretionary spending is on SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. We are bankrupt. Taxes on income is unconstitutional. Not one cent of income taxes are appropriated. It goes directly to pay the INTEREST on the debt. So tax breaks? FUCK OFF on that BS argument. The Federal Reserve and Keynes flawed philosophy needs to go. We are in this... part 1

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 mess because we have not had free markets since FDR. Anything we have achieved in this country in the private sector has not been because of government, it has been in spite of it. Look, I am a graduate of economics. I deal in empirical evidence and facts. You are not qualified to discuss theses issues. You and Marxist thinkers like you have been proven WRONG! I among many others are no longer going to remain silent. You are to be ridiculed and chastised. You are to be exposed!

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 Where do you get off saying that I am not qualified to discuss economics? What do you know about me? Just because you have a specific degree does not mean that you are qualified or even have the ability to remain objective. The problem with "economists" such as yourself is that you believe in a certain gospel and do not have the ability to remain objective and analyze your own policies and results. If you did, than the mess that the US is in would easily be solved.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 No. That is where you are completely wrong. Let me give you a break down on the science of economics. Unfortunately, there is simply not a monetarily beneficial place that economists can thrive. Unless you are involved in business. And most businesses will search for talent with those who have degrees in business not economics. So, you will find economists who will get in bed with political factions. They will sell their souls for money. Knowing what they are spouting part 1

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 is misleading and inaccurate. There are others that do not care about truth they just come from ideology and will flat out mislead and lie to push a civil agenda. That would be the leftist economist. No, I study empirical evidence, facts, policy effects and human behavior. Unswayed by political favor. Klein isn't that. She is an adgendist who unwittingly swims in water that is too deep for her. The dollar is about to fall. This is NOT opinion it its fact. I am NOT a Republican Part2

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 I am of independent of all of that. Now, the current Paul Ryan plan? It is only scooping a dixie cup amount of water out of and ocean of debt. It simply will not do anything. But, I am seeing promise in the Republican party for going in the correct direction. The Democratic party is still wanting to go in the same direction. That can only mean 1 of 2 things. 1) They are completely stupid and nieve or 2) They genuinely want to see America fall. I am now believing #2 may be truth!

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 I am curious. What was your position during the Bush administration? Did you support his tax cuts to the wealthy and increased spending ie. wars, military buildup, police state, etc.? The mountain of debt that you speak of today is a direct consequence to Bush's increased spending and decreased revenue. That is the problem with right wing governments, they increase spending and cut taxes which grows the deficit.

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 Leftist government than get elected and must clean up the mess from the previous administration and get vilified for doing so and blamed for the current situation. We see this with Obama right now and he finally just explained how he inherited such a deficit from wars and tax cuts which drain government coffers of $1trillion a year. You do the math! Often times there is the ability to compromise on issues but ideology gets in the way and democracy is wasted with blaming others

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 You dont even know the truth in that. Fact, Obama has increased the deficit by 4 trillion dollars. It will increase by 2 trllion THIS year. No he is Bush on acid. He has blamed Bush for everything since the beginning. Income taxes go directly to the interest for the Federal reserve. Capital gains stiffles growth in production, taxes are ALWAYS bad. Spending is the problem. We have to STOP unconstitutional entitlement spending! NOW. Please stop posting me. I fear for my country

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 If that is your honest belief than you should be frieghtened! Too many americans are brainwashed into believing these fallacies and untruths that the nation is in absense of unity and direction. What has Obama done to increase the deficit by 4trillion? Where is your evidence? I don't support Obama but I know figures. 4trillion dollar increases in deficit will come from wars and tax cuts. Your nations failure to compromise and see the truth will lead to its demise.

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 Your belief that taxation is bad is solely based on popular conditioning. Ask europeans, south americans, Canadians, what their stance is on taxation. They all support it and pay the highest taxes in the world! Ask yourself what does taxation mean to the people. It means universal health care, education, infrastructure, EI, pensions, social programs, etc. Are these representative of the US where individualism reins free? I think not. Where r ur priorities?

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 They say they are ok with it because they are programmed to. Universal healthcare is expensive, rationed, and of low quality. FACT! Their public services suck. Ever fly Air Canada? SUCKS! The free market reigns over government services. Our post office sucked until they implemented FedEx's program. And healthcare? Yeah I seen a guy on a pundit show talking about how couldn't afford healthcare. He had on a 100 dollar shirt. Stop with this now. You want that LEAVE!

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Braindrain3 The problem is this. Leftist/liberal/socialist/comm­unist/progressive. Take your pick. I will define it for you. I think of a normal person then I take away common sense, rational, accountability, moral fortitude, responsibility, deductibility and on and on and on. You wind up with that! To achieve this you must retrain a persons natural instincts.

[Braindrain3]

@SuperGuitarman69 What is wrong with caring for others? I see it like this. You have things completely backwards and that is the problem with ideology and misinformation. I think of a normal person, then take away common sense, rational, accountability, moral fortitude, responsibility, deductibility and morality and you have a conservative. Someone that cares for nothing but themselves, and only thinks about #1. Usually these people are bible thumpers yet the fail to grasp the most basic tenet.

[code933k]

@SuperGuitarman69 Sorry for the irruption: No body knows what "natural instincts" are -properly speaking- at this point in time. And if we have a vague notion, they are impossible to enumerate anyway. However, if what you try to point is Smith's "self-interest", that's philosophically and mathematically debunked to start with.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@code933k It is of natural origin to care for ones survival and the survival of the ones you care about. It is not up to the state to provide anyone of anything. People can take care of themselves. We are in this mess BECAUSE of the state. Freedom, true freedom will be beneficial to all. The state advocates theft and the taking away of natural God given freedom. If you adhere to the nanny state propaganda? You are a weak minded fool! You advocate the theft of anothers sweat!

[SuperGuitarman69]

@code933k It is of natural origin to care for ones survival and the survival of the ones you care about. It is not up to the state to provide anyone of anything. People can take care of themselves. We are in this mess BECAUSE of the state. Freedom, true freedom will be beneficial to all. The state advocates theft and the taking away of natural God given freedom. If you adhere to the nanny state propaganda? You are a weak minded fool! You advocate the theft of anothers sweat!

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 You know better that to say what you said about economics. Marx addresses the cost of production. You address you holy-enlightenment regarding economics, and slight N.Klein for her views. What you don't say and you know better if you actually are a college graduate, is that she is discussing the causes and effects for SOMETHING OTHER THAN PRODUCTION. economics is a a REAPER'S BEAN COUNTER. She's talking about what we do after you idiots are de-valued for you worthless opinions.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@waterspindle wrong. The opinions are her opinions. You have facts and agenda. She is agenda. Which us worthless to the point of being dangerous. Those who want to live in the marxist world have to be the most dangerous however. I am not a huge youtube person. But I think with the utter stupidity out there it is necessary to bury that idiotic agenda premise

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 she is discussing Keynesian Economics, macroeconimics, microeconomics .... we could discuss Military Keynesianism. But you are throwing us back to what....one, two or three centuries of what is arguably a dead end: Marxian Economics. But you don't specify that either, but an ambiguity citing only "marxist". socio-political ambiguity aside, you are not adding to the discussion and I'm tired of wasting my virtual type-setting time.

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 and then we can see what keynesian is, THEN walk into the warped chicago school, then BESIDES THAT, she is approaching the events that led to different mindsets ... she illustrates something about that. What I tend to dislike is that people walk all over individuals who explain the problems YET champion the few vampires who profit from the massive errors (or intentional power-madness) of a line of thinking. Friedman's dead. But fixing the mistakes will take some time now...

[SuperGuitarman69]

@waterspindle I am a free market Austrian economist. I base my views on facts, historical and empirical evidence. Keynes has been proven wrong time and time again. Stability comes from free market not from regulation. This is NOT an opinion it is fact. If banks out businesses make mistakes? They need to fail and go bankrupt. Hands off for the government. International free market that you so hate has nothing to do with exploitation. That is on the backs of the leaders never the market

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 So you claim to base your views on history, yet criticize people who talk about it in a way that you don't disagree with...fair enough... don't we all ? You fail. Why? Because you are not willing until badgered to state or posit what view you do hold. Me? Seriously? "Till my bad angel fire my good one out" -Shakespeare... society allows itself economically to be destroyed. New economic theories arrive ONLY to take advantage of the suffering of others. You are indeed a punter.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@waterspindle markets will succeed only when left alone. The left has an agenda. Which has been time and time again. It benefits banks. Not the Sam Waltons of the world.. No the ubber elite. Free markets benefit all. Without government interference. There is right and there its wrong. I used to be wrong until I learned. A differing opinion from mine? There is no such thing. There is fact amassed by empirical evidence.

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 re: US economics...the market has not been "left alone". Ayn Rand suggested the same thing, and assumed this would happen. oops. Second, the word "elite" has multiple meanings. I refuse to guess what you mean. The best reason to leaved a debate is when someone claims their opinions are empirical and right. The danger is that you purport your superiority and then fail to show any reasoning. Just a superiority complex.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@waterspindle No the best reason to leave a debate is when you clearly do not know what you are talking about. You are an agenda slave. A leaf that blows in the wind. And the reason we are in this mess IS BECAUSE THE MARKET WAS NOT LEFT ALONE. You apparently can't read out comprehend. Another tell tale sign if the agenda pusher. You are absolutely correct; the debate is over. I simply do not tolerate the agenda pusher

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 you keep using that word agenda. I don't think it means what you think it means. Corporate and military interests have an agenda. Banks have agendas. Your agenda is not significant. It is way more fruitful to talk about agendas than take them as your own. But you say you have one. Well, this sounds to me like a fundamentalist conservative view on economics. But then, I can only guess. You fail to show what agenda it is you claim to hold. I'll keep my "no agenda" thank you.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@waterspindle agenda? Agenda for military is to keep America safe. Agenda of banks and corporations is to make a profit. (coincidentally why you have a computer and or country its the wealthiest in the world). profit is a Nobel agenda. It pays for homes, food, coffee, better life on and on. The leftist, so called "progressive", socialist, communist etc.. their agenda is for everyone making the same amount breath in breath out die and get replaced. I am a conservative/ libertarian.

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 So according to you, you are a "conservative / libertarian free market Austrian economist." Huh... Funktioniert die amerikanische Wirtschaft auf Sie? Konservative Unwissenheit wird Bigotterie; sind Sie auch ein Rassist? Oder einfach nur schlecht mit Zahlen?

[waterspindle]

@SuperGuitarman69 oh. also, you claim atheism is a cult, I can guess that you're also Frauenfeind. How do people who hate women date? It was a bit of a laugh but your other comments/viewpoints are very clearly ignorant and not something I want to encourage. I was interested for a minute; like people slow down to see a train wreck....

[SuperGuitarman69]

@waterspindle I think you have a problem on focusing. You ramble quite a bit. That is fairly typical of a leftist. I understand why people are still leftist. They are bombarded with the lie by media, Hollywood, movies, congress etc... But anyone with any semblance of common sense and integrity cannot fall into the trap. Only the disturbed or weak fall for it. You are an atheist I take it? Explains a lot right there.

[Ejwoods08]

@SuperGuitarman69 she doesn't have economics experience? First of all, she studied at the London School of Economics. Secondly, and more importantly, she has performed an extensive amount of research *in the field*. Your economics degree proves nothing more than that you've taken classes at a university. I would venture to guess that you have not read the book. You don't understand that socialist economies have worked - Scandinavia is a fine example - and you spell pseudo wrong. Get out of here.

[johnsurs22]

@Ejwoods08 Listen, I don't mean to get into a huge argument with you, and I don't doubt that Naomi Klein has experience with economics. Some socialists economies are working, so that's fine. I haven't read the book, so I won't argue that either. However, I have seen her interviews, and I am a huge fan of Milton Friedman. I can tell you that a lot of what she says is completely misguided. The first thing that comes to mind is her notion that somehow Milton Friedman uses crises to manipulate peopl

[johnsurs22]

@Ejwoods08 e into following free markets. Rather, he points out examples of failed Communist states like the Soviet Union, where people have suffered a crisis due to an oppressive government and have gone to favor market states. Her understanding of capitalism is completely wrong. No person that actually studies economics would call our current system capitalism. Milton Friedman would call it corporatism, the proper term. Capitalism is about fairness, profit, and loss. Our system bails out the

[johnsurs22]

@Ejwoods08 big companies, whereas Milton Friedman would prefer to see them fail as they should. And these misunderstandings are only the beginning of her naïvety. Nothing I have said thus far is even remotely disputable, so I don't understand how you could defend the economic merit of this woman who picks on a dead Nobel Laureate of Economics and probably the most influential economist of the 20th century. I am a pure free marketist, but I can at least talk to those that aren't. That said, run

[johnsurs22]

@Ejwoods08 away like mad from this woman. She will only feed you poor information, and you are wasting your time trying to defend her.

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

@SuperGuitarman69 you misspelled pseudo.... Evidently your degree was rather specific.

[Visfen]

@SuperGuitarman69 The danger of that statement is that to think proving the anti-free market crowd wrong would be enough, but it isn't. It isn't even a case of making the best argument. It's certainly not the case that the best science matters.

It is the case that they simply like the government meddling in these things as an esthetic view. There's little logic to it. If you examine the arguments they are rationalizations, not actual arguments.

[SuperGuitarman69]

@Visfen I agree with you. That was very well said my friend.

[scw3967]

@SuperGuitarman69 Anyone who thinks that an economy can work when everyone cooperates doesn't know one thing about economics, or human nature for that matter.

[selfrealizedexile]

French-Canadian brunettes can be really hot, but this woman's ideology is complete facepalm.

[bathory714]

My god, this woman is frighteningly historically and economically illiterate. 

[Sivels]

You can see in her eyes that she's a radical feminist socialist.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

this woman is a national embarassment to all Canadians. She must love our new Mayor Ford in Toronto.

[bonfirejovi]

Klein is an economic illiterate who has no idea what Keynesian or Neoclassical economics is. She is aware that Keynesian economics is mainstream right? Neoclassical economics dominates micro-economics and Keynesian economics dominates marco. Stigler and Friedman were both Nobel Laureates who demand a huge amount of respect while this woman is a female Michael Moore that relies on pop journalism. She is an economic illiterate to the max.

[apatalis]

@bonfirejovi damn right!!!!! She doesn't have a clue...

[LeGioNoFZioN]

@bonfirejovi I could not agree with you more. she is a Canuck disgrace

[razerfish]

She has no understanding of Friedman, what free market economics is. She confuses central planning and the State with the free market, and draws absurd conclusions based on misunderstanding of simple ideas. She is the intellectual equivalent of Michael Moore.

[bonfirejovi]

@razerfish It is true, she is an economic illiterate who cannot seem to accept that Keynesianism is a proven failure... whether it be the stagflation or Japan's lost decade. Johan Norberg does a great refutation of her rubbish.

[theatreunderpressure]

All of you criticizing her are threatened by her acumen. It's scary when someone is right, isn't it?

[abbadabbadolittle]

@theatreunderpressure The sheeple can't handle the truth. Her book is fabulous. Friedman was a corporatist, free market, no regulation scumbag who destroyed the economies of many countries with his Chicago boys idiology.His policies could only be applied to countries through brutal CIA sponsored coo's, torture and murder. If the evil Friedman was such a great capitalist why do our tax dollars always sponsor his dirty deeds?

[19TEC85]

@abbadabbadolittle Because he wasn't very free market in monetary policy. Friedman was a statist in monetary policy, pro FED most his life, pro inflation, pro government. I'm free market, Friedman was moderate at best.

[abbadabbadolittle]

@19TEC85 Really, he was totally against Gov. interference as far as social programs or regulating the market. He was a hypocrite at best. No regulation, no social safety nets, free market blah, blah, blah. Yet he had no problem using our tax dollars to prop up other countries, help to sponsor coups with the use of the CIA or further his corporatist agenda.

[19TEC85]

@abbadabbadolittle Yeah but in the eyes of real free market supporters like myself, he was moderate. He didn't call for abolishing the Federal Reserve until the very end of his life. He supported 'fixing it'. Real free market supporters want to abolish the CIA and corporate welfare.

[sil3ntxOblivion]

out of the intellectual Naomis i've ever heard of (2), i much prefer Naomi Wolf over Naomi Klein, b/c at least Wolf doesn't mix together bullshit with truth :)

that n at least Wolf is bipartisan in support and libertarian in principle.

[JohnColt]

God, she is boring. She has all the intellectual power of Sarah Palin.

[jjrglobal]

Klein has a knack for avoiding the truth and making shit up against it

[angelwithbighorns]

Naomi Klein is a scholar and she speaks the truth

[bonfirejovi]

@angelwithbighorns LOL, even Stiglitz recognized that she is far from being a scholar. I would go one further and describe her as a pseudo intellectual who just happens to have no understanding of economics or the history of Keynesianism.

[ZHSamuels]

This woman is an idiot and that is why she is adored by the left.

[TimeWarp66]

She has no idea what Keynsian or free market economics are or mean. This "woman" is a lightweight to the max!

[sil3ntxOblivion]

@TimeWarp66 i hope u weren't trying to suggest the two economics are the same? that's lunacy, but if not i agree to the max.