Really a shame about Aero Union. In my opinion, they own the most airworthy and efficient air tankers. Hopefully there'll be a solution to whatever is going on.
I've been reviewing a lot of videos in order to mention a few in my upcoming kids' book on interesting cargo and their planes. This is one of the most engaging I've seen. Is the plane a P2 Neptune?
@kurthgal It's a Lockheed P3 Orion from Aero Union Corp. They have one of the largest contracts with the USFS for aerial firefighting. These aircraft were originally designed and built for Naval submarine reconnaissance.
The Lockheed P2 Neptune is a twin engine gasoline radial engine aircraft that also was used for Naval reconnaissance. The P3 is a 4 engine turboprop that was essentially a successor to the P2. Both are amazing airplanes that have been converted from their original purpose of Naval reconnaissance to aerial firefighting.
@MandolinHymns nothing became of that because of the C-130 scandal. contract C-130s were being used in the off season out of country to move military equipment for other countries.
And for the record I'm not bashing the US military, but am saying that 'handing the keys of the shop' over to the military {And in particular the air force} to fight wildland fires is the WORST idea since Ford said "Let's make the Edsel".
While the great next gen tanker debate continues, has anybody thought of going to airline boneyards to look at former commuter airliners that are sitting in sun not doing anything because the airlines have retired them? granted the toys that Evergreen with their 747 and the DC-10 bomber are nice, but they are gas guzzlers and need specialized airports, vs what one can do with a regional plane such as the CRJ regional jets or the Dash-8 turbo prop? the French can do it why can't we?
@WorldTravelA320 The CRJs and the Dash-8s fly to fast during the drop to do any good. the 747 and the DC-10s do the same thing. the best tanker out there currently is the P-3 and the S-2. until there is a replacement like the P-3 there wont be another good tanker out there anytime soon
@ktmdudeone um... Did you know Neptune Aviation is testing a jet {The BAE 146-200) for use as a NexGen platform {the plane has been making mock runs both dry and loaded with water, around Missoula Airport}, they have also expressed interest in using the Dash 8 as a possible replacement for their old P-2 Neptunes.
@WorldTravelA320 Yes I am aware of that. I work for the forest service at a tanker base. Minden Air out of Minden, NV are also converting one. The BAE146 is not the answer either. here in southern California there are only 2 tanker bases that in can land at. Fox Tanker Base and San Bernardino Tanker Base. We need a purpose built air tanker. Having the USAF take care of the tankers is not an option. if we go to war the USAF will pull the tankers and use them to fly cargo & troops.
@ktmdudeone I agree with you but the problem is: Unless there is a person with a ton of money and pull to get through the FAA and the agencies red tape, it isn't gonna happen. the established General Aviation manufacturing companies won't risk building a purpose built aircraft in this country, their main source of revenue is building private planes, and corporate jets, they won't bet their future on a built from the ground up tanker. Boeing and Airbus are too busy with airliners to be any good
@ktmdudeone So that leaves only three options in the next couple of seasons: 1. Heavy helicopters can cost twice as much as a heavy tanker in fuel and maintence, and don't have the endurance like a heavy tanker but have flexibility by hovering over water.
2. Grin and bear it, and modify regional airlines and modify tactics to work with those planes.
3. Say Screw it and Place all hope on the armed forces to fight fires. THIS SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION unless it is absolutely last ditch.. .
@ktmdudeone you say the Dash Eight flies too fast to be an effective weapon in the wildland arsenal but yet it's approach speed is 122 mph {for the Q-400 model anyway, earlier models that still retain a short field capability are slower on approach} and with a 90 mph stall speed, it could be very effective. It would be a much better idea to convert a fleet of Dash-8's {all members of that family} when it comes time for the current generation of tankers to retire then hand the job to the USAF
You maybe able to pick up more loads with the CL-415 like you said. But its only water. Not retardant. These guys lay down a line and the fire will not burn though. Where water has to be directed on the flame and only puts it out. Retardant last a lot longer than water also. So what you may pick up quicker with water out of a body of water. The retardant does a better job and requires less passes.
If you haven't seen a CL-415, you aint seen nothing. It can drop 3000 pounds of water every few minutes, providing there's a water source nearby (lake, river, ocean). It fills its tanks by skimming the water surface. No firefighting airplane in the world even comes close. It's in a class by its own.
@QAFtuvok101 I've seen em... not really a fan. They have their place and usefulness, I'm just not in awe of them at all. By the way, if you want to talk weight, the P-3 carries 24,000 lbs of retardant. :p
@kickZtailout What's important is the amount droped per hour. The P-3 may carry 24 000 lbs, but how many drop can it do in an hour ? The CL-415 can fill its tanks in about 10 seconds by skimming the surface of any water body (river, lake, ocean, reservoir). It does'nt need to go back to its base to refill. But they have a big inconvenient : they are'nt built un the good ole youessova.
3:20 Without Bombardier 415, formely known as CL-415 or "Super Scooper", this is indeed "Mission : Impossible". But hey, the US can't buy them : they are not "Made in USA", and if they did buy them, it would greatly reduce the number of work days for the firefighters, and their income.
Years ago on the 49er fire, aircraft like these saved our strike team members lives, and the beautiful sight of the planes cutting through the smoke is something I'll never forget. Thanks for posting this video. Its a great tribute to all the pilots that risk their lives every time they fly.
doing "quick starts" you can get all 4 engine running in 2-3 minutes,4 minutes worst case. Although your really hating life if you have a start malfunction
@CrewChiefD Not sure what your cute acronym means, but my quarterbacking comes not from an armchair, but one in the airplane. I'm sure you can agree my assessment is accurate?
@Bullseye569 they don't completely shut down, typically they leave #3 turning. They fire up #2 just prior to leaving the pit and they start 1 and 4 while on the way to the runway. No time is lost, and fuel is conserved.
Ahhh yes, Aero Union and their P-3s... the Cadillacs of the tanker fleet. Loved em since I saw their first one show up at Hemet when I was 11 years old. Gorgeous machines. This video may be old school, but it's still bad ass.
Is this Arizona these Orions ?
FF9118 4 months ago
Three thumbs up to the skill of the pilots, and one magnificent aircraft
rickey5353 5 months ago
music sucks
Twostones00 5 months ago
Really a shame about Aero Union. In my opinion, they own the most airworthy and efficient air tankers. Hopefully there'll be a solution to whatever is going on.
AustinBeede 5 months ago
what is the stupid music sound track for?
PeterNGloor 5 months ago
Now that Aero Union is done, or at least their P3s, what will the next great aerial firefighting aircraft be?
Drew99GT 6 months ago
What are the songs on this video?
NMRBEND 6 months ago
Nice! R.I.P. Aero Union!
quercuz 6 months ago
Great Vid , We sure could use some Help like this in Florida. It's dry as a powderhouse and wildfires galore.
charlie29943 10 months ago
Thanks!
kurthgal 1 year ago
I've been reviewing a lot of videos in order to mention a few in my upcoming kids' book on interesting cargo and their planes. This is one of the most engaging I've seen. Is the plane a P2 Neptune?
kurthgal 1 year ago
@kurthgal It's a Lockheed P3 Orion from Aero Union Corp. They have one of the largest contracts with the USFS for aerial firefighting. These aircraft were originally designed and built for Naval submarine reconnaissance.
Drew99GT 1 year ago
The Lockheed P2 Neptune is a twin engine gasoline radial engine aircraft that also was used for Naval reconnaissance. The P3 is a 4 engine turboprop that was essentially a successor to the P2. Both are amazing airplanes that have been converted from their original purpose of Naval reconnaissance to aerial firefighting.
Drew99GT 1 year ago
A while back I heard about a plan to convert surplus A-10's into tankers.
Anything ever come of that?
MandolinHymns 1 year ago
@MandolinHymns nothing became of that because of the C-130 scandal. contract C-130s were being used in the off season out of country to move military equipment for other countries.
ktmdudeone 11 months ago
And for the record I'm not bashing the US military, but am saying that 'handing the keys of the shop' over to the military {And in particular the air force} to fight wildland fires is the WORST idea since Ford said "Let's make the Edsel".
WorldTravelA320 1 year ago
While the great next gen tanker debate continues, has anybody thought of going to airline boneyards to look at former commuter airliners that are sitting in sun not doing anything because the airlines have retired them? granted the toys that Evergreen with their 747 and the DC-10 bomber are nice, but they are gas guzzlers and need specialized airports, vs what one can do with a regional plane such as the CRJ regional jets or the Dash-8 turbo prop? the French can do it why can't we?
WorldTravelA320 1 year ago
@WorldTravelA320 The CRJs and the Dash-8s fly to fast during the drop to do any good. the 747 and the DC-10s do the same thing. the best tanker out there currently is the P-3 and the S-2. until there is a replacement like the P-3 there wont be another good tanker out there anytime soon
ktmdudeone 1 year ago
@ktmdudeone um... Did you know Neptune Aviation is testing a jet {The BAE 146-200) for use as a NexGen platform {the plane has been making mock runs both dry and loaded with water, around Missoula Airport}, they have also expressed interest in using the Dash 8 as a possible replacement for their old P-2 Neptunes.
WorldTravelA320 1 year ago
@WorldTravelA320 Yes I am aware of that. I work for the forest service at a tanker base. Minden Air out of Minden, NV are also converting one. The BAE146 is not the answer either. here in southern California there are only 2 tanker bases that in can land at. Fox Tanker Base and San Bernardino Tanker Base. We need a purpose built air tanker. Having the USAF take care of the tankers is not an option. if we go to war the USAF will pull the tankers and use them to fly cargo & troops.
ktmdudeone 1 year ago
@ktmdudeone I agree with you but the problem is: Unless there is a person with a ton of money and pull to get through the FAA and the agencies red tape, it isn't gonna happen. the established General Aviation manufacturing companies won't risk building a purpose built aircraft in this country, their main source of revenue is building private planes, and corporate jets, they won't bet their future on a built from the ground up tanker. Boeing and Airbus are too busy with airliners to be any good
WorldTravelA320 1 year ago
@ktmdudeone So that leaves only three options in the next couple of seasons: 1. Heavy helicopters can cost twice as much as a heavy tanker in fuel and maintence, and don't have the endurance like a heavy tanker but have flexibility by hovering over water.
2. Grin and bear it, and modify regional airlines and modify tactics to work with those planes.
3. Say Screw it and Place all hope on the armed forces to fight fires. THIS SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION unless it is absolutely last ditch.. .
WorldTravelA320 1 year ago
@ktmdudeone you say the Dash Eight flies too fast to be an effective weapon in the wildland arsenal but yet it's approach speed is 122 mph {for the Q-400 model anyway, earlier models that still retain a short field capability are slower on approach} and with a 90 mph stall speed, it could be very effective. It would be a much better idea to convert a fleet of Dash-8's {all members of that family} when it comes time for the current generation of tankers to retire then hand the job to the USAF
WorldTravelA320 1 year ago
You maybe able to pick up more loads with the CL-415 like you said. But its only water. Not retardant. These guys lay down a line and the fire will not burn though. Where water has to be directed on the flame and only puts it out. Retardant last a lot longer than water also. So what you may pick up quicker with water out of a body of water. The retardant does a better job and requires less passes.
deliriumknight 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you haven't seen a CL-415, you aint seen nothing. It can drop 3000 pounds of water every few minutes, providing there's a water source nearby (lake, river, ocean). It fills its tanks by skimming the water surface. No firefighting airplane in the world even comes close. It's in a class by its own.
QAFtuvok101 1 year ago
@QAFtuvok101 I've seen em... not really a fan. They have their place and usefulness, I'm just not in awe of them at all. By the way, if you want to talk weight, the P-3 carries 24,000 lbs of retardant. :p
kickZtailout 1 year ago
@kickZtailout What's important is the amount droped per hour. The P-3 may carry 24 000 lbs, but how many drop can it do in an hour ? The CL-415 can fill its tanks in about 10 seconds by skimming the surface of any water body (river, lake, ocean, reservoir). It does'nt need to go back to its base to refill. But they have a big inconvenient : they are'nt built un the good ole youessova.
QAFtuvok101 1 year ago
3:20 Without Bombardier 415, formely known as CL-415 or "Super Scooper", this is indeed "Mission : Impossible". But hey, the US can't buy them : they are not "Made in USA", and if they did buy them, it would greatly reduce the number of work days for the firefighters, and their income.
QAFtuvok101 1 year ago
Years ago on the 49er fire, aircraft like these saved our strike team members lives, and the beautiful sight of the planes cutting through the smoke is something I'll never forget. Thanks for posting this video. Its a great tribute to all the pilots that risk their lives every time they fly.
OB1974 1 year ago
Awesome video? The cockpit footage is very interesting. What is the pilot pumping at 3:25?
4Him4u2 1 year ago
@4Him4u2 That's the Elevator trim wheel
silveradotruc03 1 year ago
doing "quick starts" you can get all 4 engine running in 2-3 minutes,4 minutes worst case. Although your really hating life if you have a start malfunction
silveradotruc03 1 year ago
Too bad they have to shut down to reload - what a waste of time. They should consider adopting the policies of neighboring agencies.
Great plane, but unfortunate footage selection: drops too high at 2:25 and too low at 3:46.
Bullseye569 1 year ago
@Bullseye569 Wow hey everybody look,its the FLOPP armchair quarterback!
CrewChiefD 1 year ago
@CrewChiefD Not sure what your cute acronym means, but my quarterbacking comes not from an armchair, but one in the airplane. I'm sure you can agree my assessment is accurate?
Bullseye569 1 year ago
@Bullseye569 yes they are a little high at 2:25 but they are not to low at 3:46 there was very good coverage during that drop.
ktmdudeone 1 year ago
@Bullseye569 they don't completely shut down, typically they leave #3 turning. They fire up #2 just prior to leaving the pit and they start 1 and 4 while on the way to the runway. No time is lost, and fuel is conserved.
kickZtailout 1 year ago
FANTASTIC VIDEO! KEEP IT UP LEAD47!
CrewChiefD 1 year ago
Ahhh yes, Aero Union and their P-3s... the Cadillacs of the tanker fleet. Loved em since I saw their first one show up at Hemet when I was 11 years old. Gorgeous machines. This video may be old school, but it's still bad ass.
kickZtailout 1 year ago
Comment removed
QAFtuvok101 1 year ago
Best air tanker video i've seen! Keep em coming!
whiteape992 2 years ago
Fucking sick.
Stay safe out there.
motokid032 2 years ago
That looked like Fox Field (Lancaster)
Envenomator1 2 years ago
after watching this again there are shots from fox and other tanker bases
ktmdudeone 2 years ago
What Tanker base is this?
ktmdudeone 2 years ago