Did Obama sell out on health care?

[zezo6767]

OBAMA THE SELLOUT!!!! I SAY JESUS FOR PRESIDENT AT LEAST HE IS REAL A REAL LIBERAL SOCIALIST PEACEMAKER OH YEAH I SEE THE ONLY GOOD JESUS IS A DEAD JESUS SO THEY THE REPUBLICANS SAY WHY DID YOU CRUCIFY HIM I ASKED WE DIDNT LIKE HIS COMMUNIST SPEIL THEY SAID JESUS SAID THOSE WHO CRUSH THE POOR AND THE HELPLESS SHALL FEEL MY WRATH MY SWEET LORD THANK YOU.

[remotehog1]

and remember this the next time you think your electing a president that's gonna keep his word ,THEY'RE ALL THE SAME! DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN WOIRKING TOGETHER TO FUCK US ALL!, in the greatest country in the yada yada yada and all that crap.

[ModernPlague]

Obama = Bush's 3rd term.

Nothing Changed but the mask of the dude lyin' to you....

[x05runner]

I'm so sad now. Why OBAMA? Why must you go against your principles? Was that your principle or just words to fool the people into electing you?

I'm so naive to believe there could be an honest politician. Then again, it ain't OBAMA's fault, it's the people who voted for him.

Bet that will be re-played if he elects to run for a second term.

[leahbethm]

The people that will be fined are people that CAN afford it. The people that cannot afford it will now get subsidies in order to buy insurance!  So, the video is misleading.

[rkoliver1]

It's Bush's fault Olbermann had a moment of sanity!

[regulatedtodeath]

You can't blame monroeward for his opinions he is just a product of our society. Everyone wants something for free or because they feel entitled. I have always had to pay for mine (can not afford health insurance for my family only one with a $7500 deductible). Any one who can't see the Insurance industry needs fixing is either blind or a part of the problem. I have also seen the Govt. Bankrupt everything they do, so it stands to reason they can not run healthcare.

[imabeatlelover4]

IMPEACH OBAMA!!!

[jacofall7]

The "YOU LIE" guy was right.

[iSAW7]

Dude, the individual mandate is the epitome of the "nanny state". The new world is here truly here and we are all fucked, but it's for our own good? I don't want to eat tofu for the rest of my life like Madonna, I like cheeseburgers and steak!

[dunngar]

I agree.. Obama is a huge ass sellout.. he needs to be removed from office.. its too bad people can't take their vote back... But they do get to decide what kind of government we should have.. And a government without force is the government people want.. How about no government at all? That sounds even sweeter.. but people would have to fight for it..

[marmejean]

@dunngar Obama has called troops because he expects a civil war in America before the winter is up

[dunngar]

i dont believe that at all marme.. where did you hear this?

[nycxvincent]

@dunngar That's why you don't let the general public, usually comprised of stupid people who think voting for a Black president is cool (who by the way, is only half black), vote. American's are too stupid.

[dunngar]

Corporations and Government have aligned themselves against people.. How much longer will it be before people do something before we are all owned by them with tags on us like we were animals

[Budvb]

I am starting to think China, really isn't that bad of a place to live!

[lendada13]

@Budvb then go...............go now

[Budvb]

Why don't we mandate Corporation to employ all people at very high wages! Why don't we mandate all people to local jails where Health Care is fully free from your local neighbors that pay taxes to take care of these individuals in Jails and Prisons!

The End of America is coming.... due to Socialism and lack of true education of what we are doing to each other, through the use of an over powered Government!

[lou1785]

They'll take anything right now because its not about the what the people want - its what they want - regardless of how bass-akwards the bill is.

Just pass it - lie and distort if you have to - the elections are coming soon - I want my name on an elementary school - I want to be in the revisionist Libiot textbooks - I'm selfish, arrogant, corrupt, and inept -

........... Its not about the people, its not about H/C - its about Power, Ego, and Control.

Nov. 2, 2010 - House cleaning begins

[SeraphimTheApologist]

Wow Keith Olberman and I finally agree on something!!!

[Sabu113]

Because Obama wrote up the healthbill. -.-.

Though I think everyone here should go look up adverse selection. If you're going to use an insurance based system then you should understand what that entails.

[monroeward]

@Sabu113 Well said, sir!

[freesk8]

Force.

It's about force.

This is not a peaceful party, nor a peaceful effort.

[bigbooboobaby]

Obama is such a fraud!

[voyeurdug]

Actually, the healthcare system in what used to be North Vietnam was very good, and very inexpensive. (Don't know, but doubt it's survived the end of the war, there.) It was like a state HMO, augmented by "private" physicians at the upper levels, and volunteer medics and nurses at the lowest levels.

[0bamaHatersClub]

Obama is just another scumbag piece of shit!

[jxwhit8]

What? I think that Dean and Olberman woke up one morning I discovered the real role they were playing as "useful idiots". Good for them for seeing some of the light at the end of the tunnel.  Maybe they will start leaning to the side of liberty before it is too late.

[monroeward]

@jxwhit8 Liberty? Is that what you imagine we've been having all along?

There might have been something different on the table if all of the Republicans (and Lieberman) didn't keep pissing all over everything.

[jxwhit8]

Huh??? you made alot of assumptions. Try All of the progressive socialists in Congress pissing away liberty (including repubs and dems).

[monroeward]

As far as I know, there is one socialist in the congress, and that is Bernie Sanders. What's been happening to the health care bill is that it's been whittled away by corporate interests-- that's the OPPOSITE of capitalism.

[jxwhit8]

I correct myself as well....

I meant Marxist instead of Socialist (although they are very similar). You look at political parties as if they mean anything. I can only think of a handful of Republicans that support free market ideals. I cant think of a single Democrat.

[jxwhit8]

Having a health care bill in the first place is the OPPOSITE of capitalism.

[monroeward]

In short, I DO believe in market interests, but it can't have control of everything. People's health is one arena in which the profit motive needs to be REMOVED. Top economists from the left and the right agree that what we have is unsustainable and ultimately detrimental to the country. There was a discussion between... shit, I can't remember their names- One was a left wing economist, and one was a very right wing economist, and they AGREED that what we have is unsustainable and bad for the c

[monroeward]

country.

If I can find the link, I'll post it here.

[monroeward]

Here's the link- Yeah, it's from NPR, but it's a discussion between Paul Krugman and (Jeremy?) Butler.

Krugman is leftish, but a Nobel prize winner in Econ, and Butler is from the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. It's interesting to listen to.

I don't remember if either one of them thought much of the public option (clearly Butler didn't)

[monroeward]

If we need think beyond "Party" lines, we should also be able to look beyond Capitalism--> Socialism (Socialism is much more what Marx had in mind, rather than what "communism" turned into)

[jxwhit8]

I great presentation on Health Care and market solutions....

the right scoop posted a Stossel program (7 videos)....

watch?v=D4ndu_y2yLQ

THere is no middle ground.... it regulated and socialized or it is not.

[monroeward]

Those are almost always red-flag words. "There is no middle ground?"

Regulated and socialized are not necessarily the same thing. Actually, they CAN'T be the same thing. If we are under socialism (which we are clearly nowhere NEAR), then there is no need for regulation. Regulation implies oversight of a different system altogether.

[monroeward]

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between actual economists and anything to do with a sight that posts Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. I'm sure you must be a fan, but those guys are pure fabricators of right wing extremist propaganda. They are, in short, LIARS.

Jesus, man... start getting information from somewhere else. Those guys aren't economists, historians, or even smart. They just get paid to make shit up and enrage people who don't know any better.

[jxwhit8]

@monroeward John Stossel?? you didnt get the right link. In order for Socialism to work...you need heavy regulation. They arent separate. regulation is the first step to socialism. Economically, you make no sense. You need to read up on Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, and Peter Schiff. You clearly dont understand how far away from a free market our health care system really is NOW...or why it is broken.

[monroeward]

Interesting. The link I got was to the "right scoop" The link didn't work, so I tried to look at it another way. If it has anything to do with that site, I disagree.

I know that Rothbard comes from the Austrian school of economics, and that bsays it all right there. Those guys think that ANYTHING other than complete market control is socialism. I know Hayek is the same way.

It's been thirty years of those kinds of economics that led to the crash of our system. Its been shown, demonstrably, that.

[jxwhit8]

i just searched for Stossel and got to their site. I watched the Stossel episode and TV and wanted you see it. Stossel is a libertarian. And yes... anything the government has their fingers in is Socialized to a degree. We havent experienced true free market health care since before the forties. That is when the insurance paid Corporate system really began (the real problem) started. Health care should be left to the individual with no intervention from any collective organiziation.

[monroeward]

Supply side economics works, but ONLY in an economy that has a FAR higher tax rate than what we've ever had in the United States. In a situation like that, sure, business could use a break every once in a while.

You've said I have socialist views... what you are advocating is a sort of fascism, where the control comes from big business. That has led to the financial disaster we're in now.

[jxwhit8]

fascism? There is no fascism in the free market, because consumers are able to choose and compete without the threat of force or the worry of government intervening unless laws are broken. Fascism is only possible when Government and Corporations are in bed with each other (which is opposite of the free market) A health insurance MANDATE is FORCE, thus fascism. This is what Obama is advocating.

[monroeward]

Laws have been broken. Government and Corporations are in bed with each other-- Halliburton? Pharma? Insurance companies?

Old definitions don't necessarily apply anymore. If you're beyond seeing the relevance of political parties, see that fascism isn't just what Mussolini started in Italy in the30's. Your starry eyed perception of our wonderful free market is naive.

Obama isn't really advocating for ANYTHING, other than change. Whats on the table now is whatever congress managed to shit out.

[monroeward]

If you believe that further privatization is the answer to the health care crisis, I'm guessing YOU must have what you consider to be pretty good health insurance, and you haven't had any catastrophic illness.

[jackbelias]

Anyone with a job can get good health insurance. I even managed to secure nice PPOs in my younger years while working for shit paying employers.

There is no health care crisis, most people simply prefer not to pay for insurance because they know they can check in when sick, get treated, then skip on the bill.

What you want is true fascism, and we Americans should treat you like the bundt when you rally and protest.

[monroeward]

You are so full of shit.

You also don't know what fascism is. Call me a socialist? Sure, I can accept that.

Things have changed since your younger years. Fewer and fewer companies are able to offer H.I., and many don't try.

Perhaps YOUR second paragraph might indicate a crisis? If you look verrry closely, you'll see that what you describe is NOT a series of isolated and unrelated events, you douchebag

[jackbelias]

You are so typical of democratic youth revolutionary fanatics. All you have to do is work, you can buy healthcare through employers. You just dont want to work.

This American nation was founded for the evolutionary elite who can do for themselves. This true humanist society has no room for your almost human species.

You fixed a problem by reducing the quality of healthcare and making it 30 times more expensive? Are you retarded?

[monroeward]

I do indeed understand economics. We need heavy (or just moderate, even) regulation in capitalism, or the incentives of greed and power are irresistible to those who have access.

[lendada13]

@monroeward WOW Couldn't have said it better myself.................

[rubearo]

@monroeward please don't use the word jesus because liberals do not believe in jesus or any higher power..maybe allah but doubt it...that is why they can operate entirely without morals, decency, honor, principals, ethics..which makes them just about the worst form of human life i can imagine, but it does explain their cowardly, hypocritical behavior..out with the socialists and the devil himself barry obama..he is a pig of the worst kind

[jxwhit8]

In my mind there is no "party" line. There are Conservative Free Market principles or not. Political Parties have nothing to do with it. It is either Constitutional or it is not. Mandating the populice to purchase anything is unconstitutional.

We are caught up in party lines... this is why we have the issues we have today, because we are divided up in teams instead of discussing actual issues.

[monroeward]

Good, that's where health care needs to be!!

[rubearo]

@monroeward congress is full of socialists...there are even 13 on the republican side...many many more on the democratic side...and they are all dangerous to american and they are traitors, theives, liars, and should be behind bars, not trying to gain complete control of a country that no longer welcomes them or sees them as americans

[monroeward]

Pardon... I meant to say the opposite of SOCIALISM! My mistake...

[monroeward]

I think, to begin with, the fact that Obama was so anemic in his support of the public option indicates some support for market interests.

Market interests themselves have had free reign in this country for some thirty years now, and to disastrous effect-- or at least the ABUSE of the marketplace. Adverse selection is a reality. If healthcare is left to for-profit interests, and advances in medicine continue to such a degree, the system will come to an absolute halt.

[PizzaGod]

OMG, I agree with Howard Dean and Keith Olberman.

Man, I thought it was just winter..........