Lebanese Muslims dismayed by Swiss rejection of minarets

[youtuuuuuuuification]

we don't have that right? hahaha fuck off, hopefully the damn mosques will be knocked down soon

[monsterzeroJr]

The banning of the minarets = small problem.

European perception of Islam as the enemy of Europe = major problem

You can build minarets or destroy them, but you can't repair the reputation of Islam in Europe. Well, at least we won't be alive to see it.

[JSLegoMaster]

1:21 we dont give a dam fuck if you accept it or not, this is switzerland and not a muslim republic, love it or leave it, this is switzerland =P

[JSLegoMaster]

0:13 "They dont have that right"

You dump fuck we have the right of our own country, switzerland belongs to the swiss people and we decide what our rights are, that way we have become a 100% neutral and pecefull and very rich country which muslim countries infact do not managed to =P

[xKiLLerWookiee]

"minaretts are there for god, churches too"

so, wheres the problem to build clock towers in islamic countries?

you dont have the right to bann them, clock towers are there for god

[koussa888]

starting off the the video in lebanon and then moving to another arab country is a smart idea when u are reporting a LEBANESE issue

[heirihunziker]

you wanna boycott our Swiss products? LOL i'm afraid you couldn't afford them in the first place...

you know, that kinda reaction just shows that you truly are what we think you are.

[swissmaid]

I think every country has the right to set limits to anything. Look at your lot in Arabia, they are not allowed to build churches there,, wow, but they complain when in the West. GO HOME!!! Look at video, Islam is so racist against other faiths.:

"stupid imam of Haram Mosque in Mecca calls Shia Apostates.. ."..

-( exact name!)

[MrFridayNight79]

Well done Swiitzerland!! down with that woman hating death-cult, its illegal to have a church in Saudi, the hypocrites! the sooner the oil runs out or we find a fuel substitute we can turn our backs on these "people" once and for all.

[drydust999]

Every time I see one of these muslims getting pissed of it makes me fuckin HAPPY

Hail Switzerland!! Hail liberty!!

[greggieboy71]

You don't like the country's rules camel molesters, go back to Dirker Dirker land where you can erect Minarets to yr hearts content. We don't want the world looking like mecca. Stop whining and keep your dirty hateful terrorising religion to yourselves. Didn't Mohummed have a 12yr old wife?

[dadecountyhustler305]

@greggieboy71 Dont be ignorant the prophet Muhammad didn't have a 12 year old wife...

She was 6 years old not 12... and he was in his 50's hahahahah

[leonidas512]

Silent majority? LOL Swiss is a country rules by DIRECT democracy, so it WAS the silent majority who voted via referendum to go fuck yourself, a typical disinformation tactic used by muslims, and yeah Swiss has 100% energy independance from oil, (52% nuclear power, 40% hydro electric , and some other experiments with windpower). So the muslims can go fuck themselves!!

[ameroffsky]

I'm a Lebanese Muslim, and I am not dismayed by the Swiss decision to ban minarets.

I don't blame the Swiss people for wanting to protect their culture and way of life. Also, I have to say that Islam in recent years has become very militant and it will take some time for secularism to gain ground again.

It's normal that forms of Islam that are offensive to Westerners will not be acceptable over there.

[naybobdenod]

These moaning muslims make me sick.When you live in a democracy you have the RIGHT to vote and your vote counts.57.5 % voted against the building of minarets so whats the problem.

If you really want to integrate then become an apostate and go to a church or would you fear for your life.

Get over it

[fj1764]

its their country, 57% majority.Case closed

[125RTY]

good for swiss. hey mudslim we don't believe in your pig god and your pig prophet. i think i will go buy swiss chocolates.

[mizzoulibertarian]

Perhaps muslims should ask "Why?" so many swiss supported this.

[mamanmatty]

Id love the UK to be filled with Swiss. The UK could do with more people who stand up for their way of being and living.

[justtopissuoff]

Leb Muzzies are scum. Look what they did to the Christians in Lebanon with their Palestine brethren.

[125RTY]

right, the christian lebs welcomed thes epal arab muzz scums into their country and these scums have almost taken it over. this should serve as a warning to all countries. DON'T LET MUSLIMS IMMIGRATE TO YOUR COUNTRY.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

The Swiss Minaret Ban: The Other Side of the Story. Part 1....

watch?v=wuuK4gCGtD8

(Documentation re: bias, killing & repression of Christians in "Islamic" countries!)

ISLAM IS NOT TOLERANT!

The Swiss vote wasn't "PC" but the Swiss

have a right to define the landscape of their own country....

[Cynim]

I'm Swiss and have voted against this ban. But after taken some perspective, what have we banned ? nothing more than a decorative building that (in Switzerland !! I MUST stress that !) serves absolutely nothing and for which it is difficult to obtain a building permit anyway ! IT IS NOT AS IF we have banned mosques or the right to practise Islam !!!!! THAT IS ONE THING MUSLIMS MUST UNDERSTAND !!! ^^ think twice before critisizing and boycotting us !!

[MrBrolydeath]

if it is only a decorative building then are you opposing beauty?

Or do you as a swiss not care for the lives of muslims who might want a minaret on their mosque

perhaps you should have voted otherwise and spared your countries shame.

[Cynim]

I'm not saying I don't care about the lives of the muslims ! I'm only saying that it shouldn't be as big a deal as it is ! to me, it's not a significant aspect of the PRACTICE of the islamic religion, in Switzerland.

and we might be ashamed... but it's not as if other countries aren't ashamed about other things, be it Muslim or Western. I know that's a silly remark, but still...!

[bucksmasher1]

Islam is based on fiction . There is nothing good about it. Ban the minarets . Just the thought of  loud speakers blaring that damn call to prayer out of them is good enough reason.

[ossielmais]

what about church bells, are you against them too?

[bucksmasher1]

I hate church bells . I moved to the mountains to get away from a catholic church that rings those damn things every hour. All religions are man-made. Thier rituals are annoying bullshit. No god has ever been involved with humans. There is no proof. The story of mohammad meeting an angel in a cave is a lie. Angels do not exist. Adults shouldn't believe in fairytales. Did you go to the hajj to lick the sacred meteorite? More religious lunacy. People are retarded.

[ossielmais]

"People are retarded. "

well you clearly show your high levels of education, right there.

[NewMovement1]

Support Geert Wilders!! and Brigitte Gabriel !! If you don't like the ban then get the f**k out of the country !!!

[ossielmais]

well, your 'swiss people' are welcome in my country ?

[MaryRose007]

@JewsWrecckNations

Does your brain work? Do you understand what I'm saying? Where did I ever say the mission is to end Europe and Europeans? I told you the whole idea is to live together peacefully, not wipe each other out like you're promoting.

[MaryRose007]

@JewsWrecckNations

Where what ends? The Islamic presence in Europe you mean? If that's what you mean, then there is no end to it my friend. Muslims will exist in Europe just like Christians exist in the Middle East just like Buddhists exist in Africa, etc. etc. Wherever these minorities go, they take their systems of believe with them. That's how the world lives peacefully... when it promotes tolerance over Xenophobia. The presence of minorities and their rights shouldn't end at all!

[MaryRose007]

Holly shit even the most radical of Muslims don't say Christian minorities don't belong in the Middle East. Christian minorities have lived in Muslim-dominated countries in the Middle East for centuries, and they regard it as their homeland. I've never seen a Muslim radical group ever suggest that Christians don't belong there.

I think today is Bin Laden's luckiest day; we finally found a Christian who can out-do him in extremism.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

Sure, they like to keep them around because most are successful businessmen, doctors, etc. and pay a great deal of "Jizya"

Also, the "Dhimmi" are convenient

"whipping boys" when the Imams,

Mullahs & the government want to distract the populace from their own shortcomings in justice, governance and relilgion!

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

About the "Dhimmi" and "Jizya" nonesense, I'm sorry to disappoint you that Christians in the Middle East are not any more successful than Muslims. The idea that most of them are successful businessmen and doctors who earn a lot and pay a lot is bullshit. They are about the same level of education/income as Muslims in their society. If they were successful businessmen who are being milked by the system, they'd simply leave!

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

Secondly, what archaic stone age do you come from? What "Jizya" and "Dhimmis" are you talking about? When was the last time you visited Christians in the Middle East and experienced their lives? They're not call "Dhimmis"; they're called CITIZENS. They don't pay "Jizya", they pay the exact same TAXES that Muslims pay (in countries where there is an income tax).

Your claims are similar to some lunatic Muslim claiming that the Brits still burn witches to this day!

[BoudiccaBlanc]

I spend as little time in the Middle-East as possible. If I didn't have to travel there for business purposes...I wouldn't go there at all!

When Muslims riot over stupid things like a cartoon; make speechs such as the prime minister of Turkey's (The domes are our helmets...") ..Or fly planes into skyscrapers...

Actions speak louder than words. Their actions, more or less, portray them as intolerant and unwilling to accept the modern world.

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

Maybe you shouldn't travel there at all... Oh I forgot, BUSINESS and MONEY justify everything, including doing business with intolerant Muslim tyrants (which propagates their causes and builds their tyranny stronger). Do you see how ridiculous your sense of ethics is? You're willing to tolerate Islamic intolerance when there is MONEY involved.... and then you preach about tolerance and "modern world"!

[BoudiccaBlanc]

You're very wrong. I don't aid, or abet tyrants. That is not the business that I am involved in.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

I've read the Qu'ran, the Sunnah and the Hadiths. It doesn't appear to be an ideology that respects the rights of those who disagree.

We've seen proof of that with the Copts in Egypt. The Christians in Lebanon have left in droves....

ISLAM! CLEAN UP YOUR OWN HOUSE...

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

I believe you; you've read the Quran & the rest of Islamic material (yeah right!), & you concluded that they're intolerant. No disagreement there, but you're neglecting the fact that you're just as intolerant and just as archaic when you call for intolerance towards Muslims and portray them as evil tyrants. Muslims don't claim to be a beacon of tolerance and modernity to begin with, but you do. It's not them who has to live up to these claims, it's YOU, and you're failing at it.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

Believe what you want. (you will anyhow, because you appear to lack understanding of another's views...or at the very least respecting those views.

I don't know what my knowledge of the Qu'ran has to do with the refusal of the Swiss to accomodate those (< 5% of the popular) who wish to impose a "foreign" architectural style upon the Swiss landscape!

What agenda do support, MaryRose?

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

By the way, it wasn't Muslims who wiped out over a quarter million civilians with a couple of bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It wasn't Muslims who wiped out the Native Americans and stole their continent. It wasn't Muslims who attempted to commit genocide against the Jews. It wasn't Muslims who defaced other people's religious icons. These are all actions carried out strictly by White Europeans with Christian roots and self-proclaimed secular democracies.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

The USA would have lost 1 million+ men subduing Japan (estimates). The Japanese murdered over a million people in China, Burma, Thailand, the Philippines and in the S. Pacific. (I am not including military deaths).

The United States did what it had to do to win the war. War isn't pretty. Losing a war to the likes of Hitler and the Emperor would have spelled disaster for all of the free world.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

As far as "White Europeans with Christian roots and self-proclaimed secular democracies" go...You might as well throw the Soviet and Chinese communists into the same group. Don't forget to add the Turks in Armenia and Muhammad in Arabia, against the Jews! Don't forget how "intolerant" the Japanese were to those who did not share their ethnicity or culture! As far as religious icons...India's architecture was defaced by the Muslims as were the Buddhas in Afghanistan! All of the above...

[BoudiccaBlanc]

...All of the above pale in comparison to the fate of Native Americans and Aboriginals!

Sadly, that's the history of humanity. Those with superior numbers and technologies overpower and control those whom they defeat!

I'm not saying that it's morally right...

imo...Only God, the creator of life has the right to end life!...

Unfortunately that's the way it's been for thousands of years! :-(

The above said....

[BoudiccaBlanc]

I don't know why is subsequent posts you are ranting about Clinton, Lebanon, Bush, and the Coptic church (which is being persecuted...as the Egyptian government ignores pleas for justice!)

What any of this has to do with the Swiss people rejecting (by a narrow margin, I might add) an architecture that appears "foreign" to them...Is beyond me!

MaryRose...Do you have some sort of hatred for White People? You seem to blame them for just about everything!

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

The subjects of our discussion have branched off into so many things that it's difficult and fruitless to keep track now.

However, I think I found an area of agreement between us. You're not saying that Might Makes Right, but you're recognizing that this is the reality of life, be it in America, Europe, Middle East, or anywhere else.

A I getting you right?

If I am, then I think we can reach a useful conclusion to this mess discussion.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

MaryRose,

Yes, this discussion is a mess! There is no point in continuing it.

You are correct, I don't believe that might makes right.

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

Since we're in agreement on recognizing the sad reality of the world that "might makes right", then I think nations need to stop arguing thier cases on basis of ethics & morality.

Such arguments make it appear as if nations have the "right" to inflect such actions on one another (or segments of their own population).

It's as if this "right" is based on some principled ethical stand & moral justification. This argument has no basis in the reality of human behavior.

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

A much more honest (and therefore more sustainable and longer-lasting) argument would be based on Means-To-Ends Machiavellian approach: I WANT to take an action, and I have the MEANS (power) to do it, then I WILL take the action regardless of principles.

I know it sounds totally horrific, but I honestly think that such an argument is significantly closer to the truth of things than ethics-based arguments.

Do you agree?

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

And it wasn't a Muslim president or an Imam or a Mulla who bombed a pharmaceutical plant killing civilians and depriving people of their source of medicine just to cover for his own sexual scandal. It was Pres. Clinton who did that to the Sudanese people during the Lewinski scandal and the Kenn Starr report release.

Talk about cleaning up your own house!

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

And your example of Lebanese and Copts is plainly dishonest.

Lebanon was NEVER a Muslim country. The Lebanese who left (Christians and Muslims) did so because they plagued themselves with a nasty civil war. Mind you, the Christians Lebanses acknowledge that they were the ones who started the civil war, and they do so while bulging with pride. SOME Christian Lebanese (intolerant ones like you) started a civil war, and ended up running away. How is that the fault of Muslims?

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

As for the Coptics in Egypt, I think you'd be disappointed in your fellow Christians to know that Amba Shnoda (the HIGHEST religious & political authority of the Coptic Church, or the "Egyptian Pope") declined George Bush's request to declare that the Copts are suffering religious persecution. Bush promised him immense support, and the Egyptian Pope told him to buzz off because the Copts are just FINE without the involvement of WHITE Christians!

Please educate yourself better.

[MaryRose007]

Actually, the Muslims in question ARE Swiss citizens. So, it is their country, STUPID!

Secondly, and more importantly, your username is disgustingly and disturbingly racist. If you want anyone to take your views seriously, you need to stop being such a racist pig.

Third, you diss Muslims, you diss Jews, what's next? You're gonna diss yourself?

[EuropeenFront]

congratulation Swisserland.

God of Love Bless Swiss People.

Ban evil islam to have apeaceful world.

[iamnotsoren]

OH shut the fuck up. They are not "Nazis" merely because they speak German, don't be retarded. They are not banning Muslim religious places or practices, they are merely banning minarets, those large rocketship-like objects you sometimes see outside of mosques. This isn't the holocaust, and the word "anti-semetic" or "anti-semitism" is a prejudice or hostility towards Jews, views which, judging from your display name, you perhaps hold.

[MaryRose007]

@iamnotsoren

Jews aren't the only Semites in this world. You can't hog the entire race for yourself... unless you don't consider non-Jewish Semites as people! The mere claim of exclusivity and ownership of the term is racist as it attempts to strip non-Jews of their Semitic racial background.

[iamnotsoren]

Wikipedia: "While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, since the term was invented it has been used to refer exclusively to hostility toward Jews."

Don't give me this nonsense about how I don't consider non-Jewish Semites as people, or that I am trying to "hog the entire race for [myself]". I was merely responding to a ridiculous distortion of the situation and an inaccurate use of the term. I'm not Jewish, also.

[MaryRose007]

@iamnotsoren

I know you're not Jewish. I didn't mean you personally. I meant the general you.

Secondly, don't quote Wikipedia. I am contesting the official definition of antisemitism. I'm saying the official definition itself is RACIST and I don't recognize it as a valid definition.

[iamnotsoren]

Well if you want to contest the word's official meaning then that's fair enough, but that is the generally agreed meaning.

[AcePilot101]

Muslims can take their religion and shove it.

They are intolerant, discriminate against women and hate Israel.

[jeffmonc]

Europeans get rammed over by PC bs and finally pushing back just a little and see what happens. The controlled media goes batshit.

[Kuner1]

@jeffmonc

The media can shove their political correctness up their rectums. Europe will cleanse itself from this plague, whether they like it or not.

[jove04]

This referendum is like putting a referendum on Americans in the 1950's if black slavery should continue or not. Of course the majority were racists. So, they would vote for slaving blacks. How come a majority is given a referendum to pass a judgment on the minority on some thing they don't understand? Moron brain washed Swiss junkies.

[Achilles1389]

Shut up you moron. Its called democracy! The will of the majority populace and in this case the majority indegenous populace! democracy is only good for you pc liberal fascists when the vote result suits your agenda! - which is everything anti Christian and anti European! Watch how the UN tries to stiffle the democratic will of the swiss people. In the end, those that try to stiffle and subdue the will of the people will be brought to hard permanent justice.

[Cocalighto]

It's not because you live in a corporate state that only serves the interest of the campaign-financers that you have to hate real democracies that allow their people to decide what's best for them.

[Kozmo260]

"In Egypt, Christians are persecuted. In Pakistan, construction of new churches is severely restricted. In Saudi Arabia, it isn't allowed at all. So why is a ban on minarets -- not on mosques -- so much more terrible than that?"

[fromwilliams]

Can you be Swiss and Muslim?

of course you can!

[rulerwithcounsel]

so dissapointed, muslims didnt get there way? boo-hoo! Its not your COUNTRY! get real. No one minds minarets in Lebanon, DO THEY? Whats wrong with the Swiss democratically expressing their views? Thats freedom!!! Go the Swiss.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

You people don't understand....

When will all of you (including Saudi Arabia) allow freedom of worship in your own countries?

"Tolerance" is a two-way street. Europe has been tolerant. Now it's your turn.

Stop harrassing the Copts in Egypt. Allow Christian churches in Saudi Arabia,. Stop the Arab on Black violence in the Sudan!

Give the Haiga Sophia back to the Greek Orthodox Church!

Understand?

[ageage123]

so were gunna halt all human rights action/tolerance in the west and europe just because the middle east isnt up to par??? great idea!

[MoMoney717]

Thank you for being the only person with a brain on here...

[ageage123]

thanks... some people just dont get it unfortunately!

[BoudiccaBlanc]

The Swiss don't believe that minarets are what they want to see in their towns, villages and landscape.

Muslims comprise less than 5% of the Swiss population. Why should the other 95% be subjected to the architectural whims of a minority?

The Swiss made the right decision...It's called "democracy in action"

Muslims have been treated well in Switzerland. Is it so much to ask that their mosque-minaret architecture conform to the norms of Swiss cultural sensibilites?

I don't think so.

[ageage123]

the issue has nothing to do with minarets... i dont know why people keep bringing up minarets.... minarets are about as offensive as grain silos, or even better, church steeples! theres only 4 minarets in switzerland.... the issue is about islam and how the nationalist party dislikes everything to do with islam and muslims

[BoudiccaBlanc]

@ ageage123..."the issue has nothing to do with minarets... i dont know..."

Are you Swiss?

Are you aware that after the last minaret was approved that 150+ applications were submitted for more minarets from little mosques in various locations?

This vote was a referendum by the Swiss to decide the urban, suburban & rural asthetics of their country. The Swiss decided that they wanted their country to look like Switzerland; not the Balkans or Istanbul.

They voted...DEMOCRACY !!!!

[MaryRose007]

Hitler too got to power through a democratic vote. I guess the people of Germany voted, which leads me to the logical conclusion that the attempt to annihilate Jews was a perfectly democratic thing to do.

Oh wow, what a fresh outlook on Democracy you just gave me!

[BoudiccaBlanc]

post #1 @MaryRose007...

Hitler !!! How convenient of you to confuse a national initiative regarding an architechural feature that is "foreign" to the Swiss landscape. (Not to mention the tourist trade.) with Hitler...the old-reliable

"boogie-man" to silence an alternative view!

Hitler gained power through intimidation and the fact that the Weimar Republic was collapsing due to it's inability to repay it's war reparations as well as it's inability to control inflation. *

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

It isn't a matter of convenience or the boogie-man tactic. My point was to respond to those who say that the Swiss people spoke, and no one can question their choice because its Democracy that brought this about. Its as if confiscating minority rights is immoral when done in a monarchy but totally ethical when done in a democracy. It seems like Democracy becomes infallible only when it fits the beneficiary (Whites) but its so flawed when they dont benefit from its results.

[BoudiccaBlanc]

@MaryRose 007

Why do you think that the Swiss people could care less what their country looks like.

You're just spouting off "PC" drivel. The Swiss have a very long history of individual rights. If they don't want a particular architecture in their country..what's it to you?

I happen to spend quite a bit of time in Switzerland. I like it just the way it is. The country isn't that densely populated and it's a delightful place to ski and to hike.

VIVA SWISSE !!!!!!

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

An example of this is Hitler who was elected and Hamas who too was elected. How come Hitler is vilified even though his leadership came about by elections? How come Hamas is not recognized as a legit gov't of Palestinian territories even though it came to power through internationally-observed elections? The German and Palestinian people spoke, democracy shouldnt be questioned since its infallible (you know, like the case of the Swiss people).

[MaryRose007]

@BoudiccaBlanc

So, the whole point is if the Swiss or Europeans want to be racists supremacists who have no tolerance for minorities, then please do so by all means, but please be HONEST about it. Don't bullshit me into this how-date-you-question-Democrac­y line of reasoning. You're no more ethical than any other dictatorship that wants to take away minority rights, and I can't question your actions because it's a "democracy"!

Do you see who's looking for convenience now?

[BoudiccaBlanc]

#2 MaryRos007....

*(Most of the investment for post-WW1 Germany was from the USA. After the start of the Great Depression, Americans no longer had the money to invest.)

A minaret is not necessary for worship! The Muslim citizens of Switzerland (<5% of the population) are not being denied "freedom of religion" !!!

The majority of Swiss citizens have decided that a Middle-Eastern architectural feature (minarets) do not reflect the cultural landscape of Switzerland.