Naomi and Tavis, Part II

[stealthswimmer]

lol @ her calling the Great Depression a "market shock." It was caused by bad management and bad monetary policy, not the market.

Does she even realize how factually incorrect she is? She's hot, but I wouldn't trust her arguments concerning economics.

[Advocate1234]

The quote from Milton Friedman was taken out of context. When she says that she quoted economists, she's being intellectually dishonest.

We need to drill, it is basic economics. We are 2 billion dollars short of demand, so the price is rising.

Then she went on to blaming Katrina on Fossil Fuels.

The Great Depression was caused by the fed cutting the money supply and then FDR objectively prolonged it for years. He admitted he was a failure!

What an abject idiot!

[dojinho]

Well Mr. smart man, please elaborate on how she's quoted Friedman out of context and how she's being dishonest. She has QUOTED whereas you are just making a remark that is totally without merit. If you're going to trash someone for their work, try to be a little bit more convincing by coming up with actual arguments, not mere complaints. Your comment is totally meaningless! BTW: if you drill off-shore, you will have 42 days worth of oil for the US market and only in ten years!

[Advocate1234]

I made 8 videos on her doing just that. What more can I do? But...

1) Tienanmen Square was started entirely by people who wanted civil liberties, none of them advocated more government controls.

2) Britain overwhelmingly supported Thatcher.

3) Friedman gave the same advice to many Communist countries about inflation that he gave to Pinochet. Does that make him a communist?

4) The book where she quotes Friedman was about his opposition to the Draft...etc.

Everything in her book is wrong.

[dojinho]

She never said Tiananmen was started by people who advocated more government control! What has that got to do with her thesis?

What do you mean by the word "Britain"? Do you count the people of Britain as well as the rich and elite?

Friedman gave advice to Pinochet, a terrible dictator! What else needs to be said?

Most of all, you still didn't provide any quote sir! This after saying that she does such a terrible job at quoting people!

The number of videos you make is not an argument!

[Advocate1234]

She flat out said publicly in her book and in public that "The New Left" were protesting against "Neoliberal" economic policies in Tienanmen Square. She said they protested the extent of Capitalism and the Free Market.

I count all of Britain. Look at the polls.

Friedman gave advise to dictators around the world, and for him doing so brought over 1 million people out of poverty.

She did take the quote out of context: The "only a crisis...actual...real change" was not about a "Shock Doctrine"

[dojinho]

Yeah, you're right! Friedman's advice helped bring millions of people out of poverty. They were dead but completely out of their misery! How many people died at the hand of dictators folowing the economics advice of Friedman in Indonesia and East Timor, Chili, Argentina, Bresil, all the places under the experiment of his doctrine? How many were cast in poverty for each one who benifitted?

Now please understand that a quote doesn't just need to be enclosed in "" to be valid!

[Advocate1234]

Millions of people in China and India were brought out of poverty because of Friedman.

Chile is THE economic superpower of South America because of Friedman.

Millions more were brought out of poverty.

East Timor?! Okay Chomsky - you don't even know the difference between Capitalism and and two governments fighting over land after Portugal left.

[dojinho]

When you say that millions of people are out of poverty "because" of Friedman, you forget to mention that many more millions are even more poverty struck also thanks to him! The disparity between rich and poor is increasing, and that is what matters. The elite and a small circle of people benefit greatly and the others eat dirt! The military dictatorship of Pinochet brought about a catastrophic economy, and now that the economy is better you thank Friedman? You really choose what makes you happy

[Advocate1234]

No, none of the people are stuck in poverty because of him. Singapore, China, India, brought millions out of poverty because of Friedman. If you want to see where the masses are worse off, it is exactly the kinds of societies that departed from Capitalism.

Chile was a complete economic success, in fact it was the first country to come out of the 1982 world debt crisis. Do Canadians learn all their history from Chomsky and Klein...because your knowledge of history is lacking.

[stealthswimmer]

agreed, some of these folks directly go against facts and people just take their word for it.

[dojinho]

I'm talking about the actions of a government who took its advice from their good pal, Friedman, and then went on to commit genocidal atrocities. Whatever ones ideas on economy or politics, how can one be associated with such a monster is completely beyond me. But I'll take the Chomsky comparison as a compliment.

[Advocate1234]

Let me get this straight. Friedman sees countries around the world suffering from inflation. He sees governments who have no idea how to get rid of it. They ask for his advise on how to get rid of inflation. He gives it. And that makes HIM a murder, when his economic policies worked?!

I called you Chomsky - because it is embarrassing how poorly Leftists know how to argue that they just throw East Timor into debates when it isn't relevant to the conversation but they heard about it from him

[dojinho]

How the hell did you come to the conclusion that his policies worked? All he did for the longest time was make things worse and then blame his friends the dictators for not applying his policies with enough rigor! Things got better when they got away from his policies slightly! Now how is it that the US is still the most protectionist country in the world? Do US politicians fear the Friedman doctrine? It'll probably come eventually but it will take a major shock, the whole purpose of the book!

[Advocate1234]

Because Chile is the economic superpower of South America, and even the "socialists" now advocate Free Market policies.

The U.S. is not the most protectionist Country in the world. It is just an asinine statement. We are #5 of the economic freedom index.

[dojinho]

I know perfectly well you didn't call me Chomsky as a compliment! You failed to mention that the inflation in those countries was caused by the Friedman doctrine in the first place! What poor leftist around the world are advocating is to stop killing and torturing people and then claim that the enterprise benifited them years later! That level of hypocracy is hard to fathom. Friedman's policies worked for the rich, and only the rich! Is that a success story to you?

[Advocate1234]

Now you're just making stuff up. Inflation under Allende was 200%!!

Chile has the wealthiest "poor" in all of South America.

China realized that Free Market Capitalism worked, and is bringing its poor out of poverty.

[jec98006]

When did it work? Did it work for all the people that Pinochet tortured? Is it working for the people of New Orleans? The Iraqis? The Afghans? NO.. It's working for the wealthy who take over resources and profit from them.

[Advocate1234]

Chile is the Economic Superpower of South America.

New Orleans was run by Leftists for decades and should have been a socialist utopia. In case you haven't read our Constitution, we have Federalism. The States run by Leftists fail.

The Afghans are objectively better than they were under Al Qaeda, so are the Iraqis than under Saddam.

Nevertheless, you citing of Afghanistan and Iraq is absurd - they don't even have rule of law yet.

[dojinho]

Mr. Friedman's quote cannot be taken out of context! The quote provides all the context you need; it is self-explanatory! Of course he didn't call it the shock doctrine! He called it liberal economics! Now why does this kind of economics apply only to other societies and not to the US? Why is there so much protectionism in the US, all the opposite of a free market? Why are all successful economies rely on protectionism and see a major decline when they stop? I'm referring mainly to Japan...

[Advocate1234]

When he specifically listed that one of the "real change" he was referring to was opposition to the military draft. I don't know how much more out of context one could get.

Furthermore, every country in the world that follows free market policies benefits.

Economic sanctions oppress societies because they deprive target Countries of free market capitalism. Protectionism is placing economic sanctions on yourself.

[SLUBBERD]

My one concern is that if this woman is right...she's going to piss off a lot of people and may go the way of Anna Politkovskaya.

[SLUBBERD]

I was stunned to learn about how the ANC were totally screwed over in the handover of power to Nelson Mandela's government. Many of the political stories of the last 25-30 years are covered in this book and believe me, when you've read it - you'll never trust another thing they say on a news programme again. I have always been a questioning soul anyway...but now I'm beginning to see through a lot of the BS. Thanks Naomi.

[frepi]

She's beautifull

[frepi]

And on top of it all, Naomi Klein is absolutelly lovely

[johnnyk67]

"And on top of it all, Naomi Klein is absolutelly lovely" [sic]

Repeat much Frepi? I pretty much stated the same damn thing two days earlier! I believe I was the first on this thread to say so.

They're are many interviews on YouTube which feature the lovely Klein and, not surprisingly, are very informative. We need to view and rate. It's so important to get her message out.

[JustinLawn]

The Shock Doctrine was an awesome book. It should be required reading for all members of humanity.

[GoblinGirl]

I've read The Shock Doctrine, and it's a pretty awesome book. She eviscerates the Milton Friedman right wing ideology brilliantly.

[o0xst]

goooood point about the schools at around 4:30...charter schools rather than private jesus camp schools...

i live in oklahoma city, we have a charter school that is one of the best schools in america, and okc is one of the most intellectually depraved, radially anti-intellectual places on the planet.

[rebelrebel2]

Great book. A must read for anyone who actually cares about this country or cares about humanity.

[galilei2k4]

Naomi Klein is Canadian, but she's still more American than George Bush.

I was already sold on Naomi Klein before seeing this, but now I'm sold on Tavis Smiley too. He's letting her speak, but he's asking great questions. I hadn't heard Naomi talk about using Shock and a positive vision like this before, and I'm not sure it would have gotten there w/out Smiley. Certainly not if she was on the defensive the whole time. Anyone know where I can catch more of him online?

[gworthey]

Agree on Naomi.

Totally disagree on Tavis. I don't think he even read the book. ("How to use this same doctrine to advantage those who have not?" ??? That's like asking how can we use cold-blooded evil to help the victims.)

[simionimio]

Play atention to that "...WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS HOW DO WE USED DESASTERS TO BRING MORE PEOPLE INTO THE POLITICAL PROCESS". That's the main thing because the average citizen is so reticent to take party and just until through a common conflict that we discovered what really is in game and in the hands of those who we have put the power and the weight of our collective decisions.

[DONTMATTERWHATYOUR]

She's Canadian. I don't think she can be your president.

[johnnyk67]

:|

Lovely gal, she is.

[johnnyk67]

We need Naomi Klein as our president. I hope she runs one day.

[GoblinGirl]

She's Canadian, so she can't run (sadly).

[johnnyk67]

Thanks for ruining my day, GoblinGirl!

[GoblinGirl]

Sorry. Hated to be the bringer of bad news...

[johnnyk67]

I feel like a real jackass, eh.

[GoblinGirl]

Don't. We all screw up once in a while. We still dig her book, right?

[johnnyk67]

Oh yes, and that Shock Doctrine video is excellent as well. A great intro to the book.

I like you GoblinGirl. You seem real nurturing. Thanks!

[GoblinGirl]

I'm here to help.

I dug The Shock Doctrine a lot. Fascinating (and terrifying) stuff, and Klein spared no one. She even got some great digs at Clinton for his deregulation, GOP-lite policies and how the US (under Clinton's administration) signed onto punishing Russia after the Cold War with these "shock" policies (which led to Putin's ascendance). Oops...

[themonkeywrench]

She has American parents and the requirements say that you could be president even if you were born abroad as long your parents were U.S. citizens.

I think there is hope! ;)

[GoblinGirl]

Didn't know that. Then go President Klein!!!

[johnnyk67]

"Didn't know that. Then go President Klein!!!"

Fuck yeah. That's what I be sayin'... straight up! At least a position in Obama's cabinet, no?

[GoblinGirl]

Treasury Secretary Naomi Klein...

[UTBESUX]

She is so on target!

[pimplywimp]

she's the best!