Christopher Hitchens Debates Mark Roberts (Part 11/12)

[jeorosales]

Who comes to bring not peace but a sword ?.... classic hitchslap!

[greypalm]

For a moment there near the end I thought I was hearing Hitchens caught out for the first time. But nah... Hitch always has an unexpected third arm to box with :)

[SlayingMinion]

it kinda sounded like the theist was gonna cry at some point lol, GO HITCH \m/

[charjessiesmith]

You too? What luck! Ha ha haaaa.

[charjessiesmith]

You too? What luck! Ha ha haaaa.

[num3ric]

I think there's one thing non-belief can't achieve and it's community. There is definitely a dark side to this coin though; faith-based "communities" increases social segregation, to say the least. But let's say every religious person suddenly denied their faith, then I don't see them attending philosophy lectures each sunday. They might more likely be shopping in the mall for useless sh*#, living a more trivial life. However, the poison of religion greatly outweighs this benefit.

[mountainmanbear]

I'm going to make a prediction. The response to hitchens very last comment on this video is going to be along the lines of " your taking that put of context". Let's see if I'm right.

[greypalm]

@mountainmanbear

You were right ;)

[martin19441]

"You too? What luck"

[lashkaretoiba]

point taken. Are you english? most likely only a cambridge type could of caught my american idom. I shall pass on your linguistic advice.

[Birdieupon]

"most likely only a cambridge type could of caught my american idom"

That's could *have* and no I'm not from cambridge. We tend to assume that grammatical accuracy has already been covered before higher education lol!

[steveo3141]

4:20 OMG hitchens owns again. one of his better opponents but hitchens FTW! hitchens for president!

[ClumsyRoot]

One of the best bitch-slaps I've ever seen on YouTube.

Hewitt needs to stop inviting Hitchens to debate intellectual brainstems like Roberts and White--it's just embarrassing.

[MrSalamander7]

"We're on a mission from God."

-The blues Brothers

[lashkaretoiba]

I feel bad for roberts. Just let him believe what he wants. He's obviously not a threat to anyone. He's actually pretty rational even though he can't bring himself to say I DISBELIEVE IN GOD.

[steveo3141]

the problem isn't him, its what he teaches others and how THEY affect this world. they take it to the extremes and believe what they are doing is good, when really they are doing the opposite.

[lashkaretoiba]

Gay marriage and abortion.

Are the two places christians need to update their thought process. If they could do that I seriously wouldn't have a problem with them.

[steveo3141]

ya, i wish they would too, however, i doubt they ever will cuz their holy text says they should kill people who are gay (Leviticus 20:13) and abortion i think is a moral thing that i don't know of being mentioned in the bible other than when herrod kills all the babies born under his rule to prevent jesus from coming and usurping his reign. and also i believe when moses was being born they did that, but im not sure if that specific issue is ever addressed in the bible.

[lashkaretoiba]

Leviticus is a tough bridge to cross but if they aren't killing them anymore and only denying them the right to marriage there has to be some form of hope. they did stop enslaving people.

I agree, the bible never mentions abortion as a bad thing from what I've read. It must just be a life begins at birth thing for them.

Though they care not what happens to this life in the future once it is born.

Alot of contradictions then again the bible is riddled with them. So It makes sense.

[steveo3141]

but the fact that people are not killing homosexuals actually is doing the opposite of what the bible teaches. it says you SHOULD kill them, not just strip away their rights marry, they should be stoned (not the marijuana kind of stoned either). the fact that we are not killing homosexuals right now AS MUCH as we used to be says that people are choosing to NOT follow the bible and base their morals on something OTHER than the bible.

[lashkaretoiba]

So what if they cherry pick their bible? As long as they aren't burning homosexuals at the stake I could care less.

[steveo3141]

also, christians in early america did not stop enslaving people. what actually happened was thru the bible the black community churches started forming and black people started being told that their slavery was a tribute and service to both god and their masters and they were to be greatful (preached by the church back then). the church did this because of the many verses in the bible refering to slavery as a good thing or a chance to do a good thing for god. im sorry its immoral and unethical.

[lashkaretoiba]

Key word being "early". However, the English-christians helped abolished slavery in their country before America ever did.

[geeoogle]

From Jesus Christ Superstar (rock musical 1970). Pontius last sentence sums up this debate .."we both have truths...are mine the same as yours"

JC: I have got no kingdom in this world, I'm through, through, through.

JC: I may have a kingdom somewhere, if I only knew!

PP: Then you're a King?

JC: It's you who say I am! I know the truth, and find that I get damned!

PP: But what IS truth? Not easy to define! We both have truths! Are yours the same as mine?

[Stipoon]

Weasle news in GTA4 =)

[Phi1618033]

Jesus comes to bring not peace but a sword! At least, that's what he preaches in the gospel. But I suppose we can either ignore that part or rationalize it somehow.

[andyrooney11]

The radio show host reminds me of Lazlo from GTA3...I like Hitchens's argument more.

[ClumsyRoot]

There are few things more nauseating than the false humility of Christians...

[paulschnaars81581]

In the middle of this segment Hitchens traps him again: he reveals that the cornerstone of Robert's beliefs and the assumptions from which he proceeds all come from an inner experience, i,e, "my experience with God" Roberts says, that is essentially immune to scrutiny and, even though entirely real in a certain sense for the believer, is inevitably resorted to as retreat beyond the reach of criticism. Also: just as Hitch was digging in they cut him off and went to break.

[pmacgilli]

The beauty of the "in my experience" argument is that it is also impossible to use as an effective defence. I am fairly sure that when people use it they feel the smallest twinge of guilt. Probably not unlike what I feel when I defend something I know I am not knowledgeable enough to defend even though I am getting away with it.

[RebelRay]

I find it so irritating that Hitchens keeps interrupting when others speak.

[Snarkonymous]

I find it so irritating when one of the debaters takes the opportunity for him to talk as a license to drone on and on about more points than his opponent has time or memory to debate.

[hleaf]

Regardless of one's belief, as someone who enjoys a good argument, it's a treat to hear Hitchens gently lead Roberts down what seems to be a logical path, and then absolutely coldcock him.

[CBUEngineer]

They didn't do it because they are good humanists? Well that makes them look kind of bad, doesn't it? That pretty much means that they wouldn't do it without a religous or biblical mandate. That's pretty much the saddest thing I have ever seen. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is the best example.

The announcer asked if the tribes followed the "Christian teachings" then flips it to jesus. Since the "Christian teachings" greatly includes moses and the old testement, Hitchens is right.

[spatulasnout]

Yeah, well I'd love to be with you then next time someone says--that comes up to both of us and says, "I'm hearing voices--and it's God!" -- You're going to throw your arms around him and say, "You too!?? What luck!"

:D

[KaminaGurren]

Wow, Hitchens really started laying on the pwnage in this segment. I guess he was sick of being forced to argue in circles because the Christian duo had a meaningless, unshakable, Biblical answer for everything. This is an interesting debate, but also painful to watch.

[wubbadubdub]

i almost skipped this debate because i can't stand that "morning glory, evening grace" shit, but i'm glad i hung in there -- hitchens is gold on the radio (never debate the man, but especially while he's free to smoke and drink)

[buffnstuff22]

Dr. Roberts was educated at Harvard. I'm sure mosts christians don't have 1/3 of intellect that Dr. Roberts possesses.

With all that education and intelligence, he still could not keep up with Professor Hitchens.

Religion is manmade.

[sashascall]

He couldn't keep up because he is not a professional debater. It has nothing to do with knowledge. Hitchens does this on a regular basis, this is probably Roberts' first time. You can tell because his ideas are sound, he just has a harder time getting them out.

[kingthamus]

I believe as a christian; I disbelieve as a historian.  That isn't a sound position, is it?

[steveo3141]

it goes back to the saying "man created god in his own image, biggoted, sexist, violent, while still being fatherly, loving and kind" interesting features for a being of higher conicousness to possess if you ask me......

[lashkaretoiba]

More like a hypocrite if you ask me.

[ClumsyRoot]

Hitchens, sounding a bit exasperated at Dr. Roberts ever-changing argument: "I never know with which proposition I'm arguing." LOL! He absolutely EVISCERATED Roberts. Fun stuff.

[snotbog1]

Attn Christians:

May we all learn from this debate that if you don't base your authority solely on the word of God, then this debate is an example of what will happen. Insructive and frustrating at the same time.

[Rhology]

You said it! Roberts has been eaten alive, chewed up, spit out, and then spat upon. Pitiful performance, and against an opponent who is no great shakes.

[phantompsyk]

Listen, you can agree or disagree with Hitchens, and that is your right, but he is considered by Theists and Atheists as a skilled debater. So please attack him on what he says, not his ability, if that is in fact what you are saying.

[snotbog1]

I was commending Hitchens, not attacking him. It's Roberts that got scalped in this debate. Hitchen's ability is marvelous. It is WHAT HE SAYS that I disagree with.

[steveo3141]

so then what do you have to let your religion stand on? nothing, maybe some enlightening experiences that are common to all other humans. plus doesn't the bible say that it is infallible because its the word of god? if that is so then you SHOULD be able to base ALL your authority on it.

[lashkaretoiba]

Like I said. If they cherry-pick I really couldn't give two shits.

[snotbog1]

It is clear from my leading comment that I do base my authority on the word of God. I was critisizing Roberts for not doing that very thing. He would have done much better against Hitchens if he didn't try so hard to "pal up" to him. In a debate, Hitchens isn't interested in making a new "pal". He comes to win and I must say he did win this debate.

[snotbog1]

I'm a follower of Christ and must say that Hitchens tore Roberts up in this debate. When a Christian veres off of what the word of God says and starts takin all this personal feelings crap, they get in trouble and drag Chrsit and his word through the mud.....sad

[AnunC8]

I agree. He is in some ways part of this modern movement of pseudo-Christians who identify themselves as faithful, but haven't thought much further. He is obviously more learned in Christian ways, but when one tries to reconcile that with the "God is love and I don't need to have read the bible to understand that" philosophy, he has to draw unfounded assumptions. He is trying his own theory of God it seems, which without the word of said God, is like trying to guess what the color of nothing is.

[snotbog1]

well said bro'

[baineswarner]

Hitchen's is brilliant in this debate. Some of the uncomftable silence's in the studio are so funny you can imagine both of them staring at each other trying to find an answer.

[oneearth22222]

I can't help wondering how Roberts and Hewitt can close their minds so completely to what Hitchens is saying. It's true that people rarely change their minds during an argument....who knows, maybe they only need to mull it over before they decide to change their beliefs.

[Danni4815162342]

I really can't believe we're still debating this bullshit in 2007?

Any educated person knowns most of the bible stories just can't be right.

[honktonksponk]

there is a differnce between meaning and historical truth

[TBlake34]

Damn...Hitchens really put the stake in their hearts here. All the wine must have finally kicked in.

[jpayne100]

There is a certain discernment that comes with following a calling that would preclude running up to people exclaiming "I'm on a mission from God!"

[drgigolo]

"and you throw your arms around them and say you too? what luck!"

[asonjdj]

I dont know why i waste my time listening to this stuff, it only serves to annoy and frustrait me how immune to reason so many people are. These two guys (Not Hitchens) appeared to be smart good people who are simply blinded by there own convictions. My brain is just not set up that way, guess i'll ponder that while burning in hell.

[CadaverSplatter]

It requires proof and scrutiny when it is someone else's religion, but for our own we are prepared to leave questions unanswered.

[Anarkokommunist]

Hitchens rules!^^

[yeahscotty]

Hilarious, Hitchens makes them squirm in this section.

[lollygager3664]

He is here at his most aggresive and eloquent.

[ClumsyRoot]

Great stuff. Roberts was literally stuttering.

[Canaximander]

It makes one ponder if early religion was simply us gathering around the schitzophrenic and joining in. Further, it makes one question how far we have really come.

[eruagnostic]

Who follows the teachings of Jesus?

Matt.28,18b-20

[eljonny15]

Matthew

28 .... 18 "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All Authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."" 19 ""Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"" 20 ""teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."

[skedaddleMLS]

"And Jesus came and spoke to them asking "who has brought the punch & pie?"

[eljonny15]

I am an athiest, but I can't even see any point in those three verses where you would derive that quote.

[eljonny15]

Ok. I didn't mean that in defense of what the hell ever. I realize that eruagnostic was probably just being sarcastic lol. It does indeed annoy me when people misquote any document or person, but I just think too much lol. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[eruagnostic]

How has anything been misquoted? Those verses have been used through out history as an excuse to force Christianity on others.

[eljonny15]

I'm saying you didn't make a direct quote. "Who follows the teachings of Jesus?" Is an open-ended interpretation of bible verses that are indeed used as an excuse and driving point to force Christianity on others. I understand; I get it now. You listed the reference points for a set of bible verses and gave an interpretation instead of citing the bible verses themselves thereafter giving an interpretation, and some people wouldn't get what you're trying to say at first sight.

[eruagnostic]

Yes.. it was a reference point - not a quote from those verses.

[eljonny15]

Right. I simply took a very quick look at it at first and thought you were trying to literally derive a quote from those verses, which I obviously now see what you're saying. Basically, I didn't think about it for more than ten seconds lol. It was around 5AM, so I was a little out of it and very tired. But anyways... Yeah. All cleared up. No worries.