Galen Institute/Hudson Institute - Politicians, Public Options, and Patients

[cyberoid]

Isn't the Hudson Institute supported by contributions by corporations (including health insurers) and wealthy individuals? Oh yeah, they really deserve our attention.

[megarational]

As for "government making decisions about what treatments are allowed", of course the gov't will decide what is covered under gov't insurance plans. That's no different than private insur. co.s deciding what is covered under their plans. And if certain procedures are not covered under a public plan people are free to buy supplementary insurance to cover those procedures not covered by the public plan. Of course this video never mentions any of that.

[drbrianleecrowley]

@megarational Well of course additional insurance for publicly insured medical services is NOT available in Canada, as you'd know if you listened to the talk.

[megarational]

I know that full well since I've lived in Canada for about 50 years.

The supplementary insurance is for procedures not covered by public insurance.

So what's your point?

Why would you want to buy supplementary. private insurance for procedures you are already covered for under your public plan?

[drbrianleecrowley]

Well as the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in the Chaoulli case, you might well want the option of private insurance when the government takes your money, makes you wait ion a queue, doesn'e effectively deliver the service, but forbids you from going elsewhere for the service. My point is that in the absence of choice for us as consumers, the government calls all the shots.

[megarational]

You lost the argument so you just lapse into the predictable & hyperbolic tea-bagger type rhetoric.

As for "choice", in Canada you are free to see any doctor & go to any clinic or hospital you chose.

Compare that to the U.S where insurance co.s & HMO's tell you what doctor you can see, what procedures you are allowed, whether you can go to a hosp., what hosp you half to go to, how long you can stay, what lab must be used etc.

[drbrianleecrowley]

I am not sure how quoting a landmark Supreme Court of Canada case on this very issue constitutes "losing the argument" or "hyperbolic rhetoric". The fact is that your arguments were presented to the SCC and were rejected.

[megarational]

So you are saying the Supreme Court protects Canadians right to choice.

Good.

So let's not hear any more b.s. about Canadians having no choice.

[megarational]

The essential principles of a health care system is that everyone, regardless of income, should have access to quality h.c., and that people should not be financially punished for needing to access health care services.

Does this video offer any suggestions as to how this could be accomplished outside of government intervention? No.

[megarational]

He says that with a publicly funded system there is no accountability.

Of course there is. The government is accountable at election time to the people who have to use the system.

[megarational]

This video is one of the smoothest and most sophisticated con jobs I have seen.

One eg. tipoff of the type of deceptions is when he says that in Canada "lotteries" are being used to trim Doctors list of patients. I found only 2 medial lotteries in Canada, one for Gander, an isolated NE coast community of 10,000, & the other for Norwood Ontario, also an isolated town of 4200 people. The prob.of physician shortages in remote, small communities is in both Canada & the U.S.

[megarational]

In the U.S. private insurance corporations have the health care system by the balls. They tell you what doctor your can see, what treatment you can receive, whether you can go to the hospital and if so how long you can stay. Even what lab the doctor has to use.

In Canada, there is no such bureaucratic interference in your health care.

[drbrianleecrowley]

@megarational In Canada if the system doesn't give you what you want or need, you have exhausted all your options, unless you want to travel outside the country. I go into some detail about the monopoly nature of the system. You have not explained why this analysis is incorrect. Monopolies by their nature serve the interet of those who control them, not their customers....

[megarational]

Not sure what you mean by "your options are limited".

Canada has excellent h.c. and modern facilities.

Also, as I said above, anyone is free to purchase supplementary private insurance to cover procedures not covered by the universal h.c. financing system.

If you want to talk about exhausted options, you need to talk to the millions upon millions of Americans who can't afford skyrocketing h. c. premiums and the growing number of uninsured & under insured.

[drbrianleecrowley]

You may think that it is acceptable for people to be made to wait months and sometimes years from services they are "entitled" to under our system. I don't agree. Neither does the Supreme Court of Canada, which said the Canadian system, which takes our money in taxes and then doesn't deliver services, is violating our rights under the Charter. As they said, a place in a queue is not health care. Was the SCC judgment a sophisticated con job too?

[megarational]

Horseshit.

eg: i live in a small Canadian city & have had to see a doc. several times over this past yr.

Even without an appointment I went to any walk-in clinic & very seldom had to wait more than an hour at most.

You or anyone else can check that out. Just get a phone directory for any Canadian city (outside the province of Quebec which has a poorer prov. h.c. system), phone any walk-in clinic (some are even open 24/7 365 days/yr, and ask what the wait time is.

[drbrianleecrowley]

In my experience, those who lapse into obscenity are the ones who have lost the argument. In the video and my talk, which is posted, I offer lots of sources of reliable statistics from authoritative sources to back up my points. You respond with personal anecdote and invective. I think there's probably not much point in continuing this.

[megarational]

Like I said.

Horseshit.

Once again, if you want to find out the facts, just phone any walk in clinic in any Canadian city (outside of Quebec) and ask what the wait time is.

There is no shortage of sources that exaggerate Canadian wait times (YouTube propaganda videos are full of them).

It's all a red herring anyway as far as the U.S. h.c. bills are concerned, because nothing in those bills would make the U.S. system like that of Canada's.

Do Canadians prefer their h.c. system? next comment...

[megarational]

2009 poll by Nanos Research:86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to..health care. 2009 Harris/Decima poll: 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system.. Strategic Counsel survey in 2008: 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S

[megarational]

One final comment on wait times in Canada. If you need surgery right away you get it right away. U.H.C. was first introduced in Can. in the 50's, but the increased wait times for some specialists & some surgeries is a much more recent phenomena, showing that the prob. is independent of the financing system.

The fallacy in propaganda is that there are no solutions that don't involve losing the massive advantages & cost efficiency of the single payer system.

Solutions are underway.

[cyberoid]

@drbrianleecrowley Your comments regarding European healthcare systems are completely false based on my personal experience. They're mostly exemplary and in fact end up saving social capital because doctors and other providers are held accountable for quality service delivered promptly, as prompt care reduces prolonged and more expensive treatment. You have it completely wrong. As for the Hudson Institute, it's a shill for powrerful interests -- or didn't you know? Do your research next time.