Wow, what a shame! During heavy maintenance inspections do the flight controls have a rig check performed on them? Looks as though flight controls were stuck. The aircraft might have nosed over, but it appears it was pushed back from when the crew ejected.
@discofishing yup thats exactly what happened, the control lock in the back seat wasnt removed and the A/C pitched up uncontrollably. same thing happened to an experimental turbine powered carabou
Schuncks 110 is correct. Lambert Field. I thought it happend in the later 70's though. They were there to film the 5000th Phantom when this production aircraft took off. The front seater was Pete Pilcher. Can't remember who the back seater was though.
What I understood was the kneeboard of the back seater got caught in front of the stick and jammed the stick all the way back. The front seater was trying to frantically push the stick forward and the back seater couldn't get the kneeboard out. The plane over-rotated, stalled at a low altitude and they both punched out. Nice quick reactions on the boys' part.
@Moe145 If this is a production, operational Phantom the stick for the RIO has no influence on flight controls. It's part of the weapons systems. I would know, I rebuilt many microbundle wire harnesses for the rear scopes the RIOs used to beat the shit out of with their boots, me upside down, with the AME's pulling the seats and me spending hours with all my weight on my neck.
Ended up crippled with scoliosis because of it, but hey when you're 18 you think nothing can hurt you.
This happened on takeoff at Mc Donnell Douglas St.Louis Lambert Airport,just south of the flight ramp cameras were rolling to take photos for some demo,late 60s I think.
Not this particular stall. The plane suffered engine failure at a low altitude, and altitude is required to recover from a stall. Read Farong36's comments, he explains it quite well.
Not sure of the base, but we used this clip as part of our ejection seat training. As I understood it, the aircraft had just come out of maintenance and the crew was performing a Functional Check Flight when they had engine failure. The pilot is zooming for altitude (so he can eject safely). He is not over rotating the nose, he's trying to survive!! The film actually ends with both the uninjured pilot and RIO standing over the remains of one of the ejection seats.
You just made that up. A slow speed engine failure would not result in a zoom climb either unless the pilot is dumb and untrained. Don't act like you know what you don't, please.
First: it's slightly slowed down film. Not terribly slow but slow none-the-less (most likely converted 8mm film). The airplane is airborne and the HIGHLY EXPERIENCED pilot is using available energy to initate the zoom even with a dead engine. Ejection seats work better with more altitude, which he gets from the zoom. The plane is already dead, he's using remaining energy to save his crew's life.
Are those Martin Baker seats in the F-4? I can't remember. What I do remember is that on the back of Air Force Flying Safety magazine in the early 1980's they always had a commendation for a flight crew...yada, yada....and they were always flying an F-4. It didn't take a genius to see the pattern. F-4's were dangerous aircraft.
Yes, JetMechMA, F-4's (at least non-development ones) were fitted with MB MK-H7 seats. There were slight differences between the Naval and Air Force seats, but essentially, they were identical. Compared to the ACESII seat used today, the MK-H7 appeared rather Rube Goldberg-ish. But it saved a lot of lives!
Farong36: MK-H7 appeared rather Rube Goldberg-ish. But it saved a lot of lives!
I can dig that! Do you know, do the QF-4's have same Martin Baker seats or have they been refitted with ACESII ? It just occured to me...just wondering. Actually I'm not sure if there are any QF's that haven't been shot down by now. I wonder if they are going to QF any of the F-16's. I thought it a shame when they QF'd the F-86's. What a loss. Sad.
Last time I saw a QF-anything was at Tyndall AFB and they were F-102's. Duct taped missle bays and panels missing. What a sad ending for a proud aircraft. We were actually using F-4s to shoot down drones (a firebee).
As to the QF-4's...I'm not sure about what they are using now but there'sa ton of other types that could be used before the Falcons (T-38, F-5, A-6 etc.), although the F-16 is a logical follow-up plan.
JetMechMA: Goggle QF-4 and you may find some information on the (apparently) no longer used drone. From what I saw, the F-16 is the new drone. I tried to upload a link but it wouldn't "take".
@JoshG1976AZ yes, go ahead and ignore the fact that this guy actually had ejection seat training, and comment with something you've heard on the discovery channel, or read on wikipedia. at zero altitude - you can *hope* to survive, but as you can see from the video, when the pilot is at about the ejection hight, the chute has only just fully inflated. at low altitude and even a slight dive - you're a gonner!
@canals22 First: READ what I wrote; "as I understand it.." I never stated the cause I cited was a solid fact. If you "were there" then I concide the facts and thank you for the clarification.
Second: Was it necessary to be crass? Just supplying the correct information is sufficient, you don't need to be insulting.
Third: Bottom line is the zoom manuever saved the crew's life and gave our training film a great introduction.
@canals22 that's kind of funny because anyone who ever got close enough to a Phantom to breathe that smoke (I was PQS'd as an AQ on two versions, a plane captain on one) calls it a stabilator, you access it through the doghouse.
however incidents due to fod left inside panels during maintenance is certainly common with the proliferation of loser "armchair CDI's" in the fleet. AQ1 Max Lines, if you're out there.... you, Buckley and that spool of safety wire... well fuck you. you have no idea.
Niceee
B)
iugey 3 weeks ago
Nice fail
XxIceCavexX 3 months ago
Wow, what a shame! During heavy maintenance inspections do the flight controls have a rig check performed on them? Looks as though flight controls were stuck. The aircraft might have nosed over, but it appears it was pushed back from when the crew ejected.
discofishing 7 months ago
@discofishing yup thats exactly what happened, the control lock in the back seat wasnt removed and the A/C pitched up uncontrollably. same thing happened to an experimental turbine powered carabou
hundvonkrieg 3 months ago
it was very important that pilot pull up so he can gain alt so he can safe ejected last atoms of engine power were put ti rich max alt for safe eject
bilmez1 10 months ago
aww..that was bad..
SchneiderVesperine 11 months ago
Schuncks 110 is correct. Lambert Field. I thought it happend in the later 70's though. They were there to film the 5000th Phantom when this production aircraft took off. The front seater was Pete Pilcher. Can't remember who the back seater was though.
nn8c 1 year ago
What I understood was the kneeboard of the back seater got caught in front of the stick and jammed the stick all the way back. The front seater was trying to frantically push the stick forward and the back seater couldn't get the kneeboard out. The plane over-rotated, stalled at a low altitude and they both punched out. Nice quick reactions on the boys' part.
Moe145 1 year ago
@Moe145 If this is a production, operational Phantom the stick for the RIO has no influence on flight controls. It's part of the weapons systems. I would know, I rebuilt many microbundle wire harnesses for the rear scopes the RIOs used to beat the shit out of with their boots, me upside down, with the AME's pulling the seats and me spending hours with all my weight on my neck.
Ended up crippled with scoliosis because of it, but hey when you're 18 you think nothing can hurt you.
batvette 8 months ago
This happened on takeoff at Mc Donnell Douglas St.Louis Lambert Airport,just south of the flight ramp cameras were rolling to take photos for some demo,late 60s I think.
schnucks110 2 years ago
What air base is that at ? Pensacola NAS ?
jhorak202 2 years ago
is it not able to recover after one of these or any stalls?
puttefnasken 2 years ago
Not this particular stall. The plane suffered engine failure at a low altitude, and altitude is required to recover from a stall. Read Farong36's comments, he explains it quite well.
ouroboris 2 years ago 3
@puttefnasken zero airspeed+ zero altitude = crash
jimmyc451 3 months ago
Take-off Fail
Familyguy098 2 years ago
That would would rock.
brunerjared 3 years ago
Does anyone know what base this happened at ?
jhorak202 3 years ago
Not sure of the base, but we used this clip as part of our ejection seat training. As I understood it, the aircraft had just come out of maintenance and the crew was performing a Functional Check Flight when they had engine failure. The pilot is zooming for altitude (so he can eject safely). He is not over rotating the nose, he's trying to survive!! The film actually ends with both the uninjured pilot and RIO standing over the remains of one of the ejection seats.
Farong36 3 years ago 16
You just made that up. A slow speed engine failure would not result in a zoom climb either unless the pilot is dumb and untrained. Don't act like you know what you don't, please.
b1cc2 2 years ago
First: it's slightly slowed down film. Not terribly slow but slow none-the-less (most likely converted 8mm film). The airplane is airborne and the HIGHLY EXPERIENCED pilot is using available energy to initate the zoom even with a dead engine. Ejection seats work better with more altitude, which he gets from the zoom. The plane is already dead, he's using remaining energy to save his crew's life.
Farong36 2 years ago 15
@Farong36 read my comment above...
canals22 1 year ago
@b1cc2 the pilot made the choice to zoom climb to gain altitude
skittlepower95 1 year ago
Farong36
Are those Martin Baker seats in the F-4? I can't remember. What I do remember is that on the back of Air Force Flying Safety magazine in the early 1980's they always had a commendation for a flight crew...yada, yada....and they were always flying an F-4. It didn't take a genius to see the pattern. F-4's were dangerous aircraft.
JetMechMA 2 years ago
Yes, JetMechMA, F-4's (at least non-development ones) were fitted with MB MK-H7 seats. There were slight differences between the Naval and Air Force seats, but essentially, they were identical. Compared to the ACESII seat used today, the MK-H7 appeared rather Rube Goldberg-ish. But it saved a lot of lives!
Farong36 2 years ago
Farong36: MK-H7 appeared rather Rube Goldberg-ish. But it saved a lot of lives!
I can dig that! Do you know, do the QF-4's have same Martin Baker seats or have they been refitted with ACESII ? It just occured to me...just wondering. Actually I'm not sure if there are any QF's that haven't been shot down by now. I wonder if they are going to QF any of the F-16's. I thought it a shame when they QF'd the F-86's. What a loss. Sad.
JetMechMA 2 years ago
Last time I saw a QF-anything was at Tyndall AFB and they were F-102's. Duct taped missle bays and panels missing. What a sad ending for a proud aircraft. We were actually using F-4s to shoot down drones (a firebee).
As to the QF-4's...I'm not sure about what they are using now but there'sa ton of other types that could be used before the Falcons (T-38, F-5, A-6 etc.), although the F-16 is a logical follow-up plan.
Farong36 2 years ago
JetMechMA: Goggle QF-4 and you may find some information on the (apparently) no longer used drone. From what I saw, the F-16 is the new drone. I tried to upload a link but it wouldn't "take".
Farong36 2 years ago
Farong36
I just hope that those rich guys who do such things buy enough F-16 airframes to keep them alive at air shows. Lets hope so.
JetMechMA 2 years ago
@Farong36 The Martin Baker seat is a zero zero seat. You can punch out on the run way & still survive.
JoshG1976AZ 1 year ago
@JoshG1976AZ yes, go ahead and ignore the fact that this guy actually had ejection seat training, and comment with something you've heard on the discovery channel, or read on wikipedia. at zero altitude - you can *hope* to survive, but as you can see from the video, when the pilot is at about the ejection hight, the chute has only just fully inflated. at low altitude and even a slight dive - you're a gonner!
code123ns 1 year ago
@Farong36 you're full of shit.. this aircraft crashed because the elevator control jammed, due to a screwdriver left in the tail.
"We were there"
canals22 1 year ago
@canals22 First: READ what I wrote; "as I understand it.." I never stated the cause I cited was a solid fact. If you "were there" then I concide the facts and thank you for the clarification.
Second: Was it necessary to be crass? Just supplying the correct information is sufficient, you don't need to be insulting.
Third: Bottom line is the zoom manuever saved the crew's life and gave our training film a great introduction.
Farong36 1 year ago
@canals22 that's kind of funny because anyone who ever got close enough to a Phantom to breathe that smoke (I was PQS'd as an AQ on two versions, a plane captain on one) calls it a stabilator, you access it through the doghouse.
however incidents due to fod left inside panels during maintenance is certainly common with the proliferation of loser "armchair CDI's" in the fleet. AQ1 Max Lines, if you're out there.... you, Buckley and that spool of safety wire... well fuck you. you have no idea.
batvette 8 months ago
Amazing thrust though, look how long it stayed suspended in the air
Ovechkin81 3 years ago
ya, in reality tha pilot got scared.
zeek997733 3 years ago