Chopin: Ballade no. 4 in f minor

[forgottenbooks]

I have this recording on CD, and I'm pretty sure it was recorded in 1949.

[MrAlshaikh77]

the best of chopin

[Kachukeland]

@rocklikeluda lol, you got pwned

[debussyman88]

@Kachukeland lol mmm im a pianist so...i couldnt resist..

[forgottenbooks]

This is infinitely more attractive than all the "cleaner" recordings by other artists.

[Kachukeland]

@forgottenbooks that's what I think, too. If you play the music EXACTLY as it is written, the piece will usually feel a bit "soulless." I think a few mistakes never takes away from a great interpretation!

[nikosjsb]

Ricter's performance is much better, especially at the difficult to understand the "phrases" final part.

[forgottenbooks]

I like the emphasis he lays on the F note at 10:06.

[forgottenbooks]

Isn't this his 1949 recording?

[cuoylyf]

GREAT!!!!!

[inazuma3gou]

As far as I am concerned, this is HOROWITZ: Ballade no 4 f minor.

It ain't Chopin, but sure is interesting.

[Kachukeland]

@inazuma3gou lol, i see

[Arfat]

@inazuma3gou This was written by chopin, you moron

[Kachukeland]

@Arfat he's just commenting on Horowitz's interpretation. He's aware that Chopin wrote the piece, but Horowitz takes so much liberty with his performance that it may as well be called Horowitz Ballade no. 4.

It's true that Horowitz adds/changes things, but I really like what he does to the piece, and I think Chopin would appreciate it.

[DurcheinanderWelt]

@inazuma3gou You're stupid, the Componist's Chopin. The Pianist HOROWITZ ahaha i'm 15 years old and know that. But it wouldn't care as much it does if you had'nt written your comment in such a agressive touch but Chopin made Love made real Music although i like to listen to other things. Chopin became part of my Life. So we should all just be happy that music like this had been born. Greetings from Switzerland

[inazuma3gou]

@DurcheinanderWelt As Kachukeland correctly indicated below, the notes are written by Chopin, but Horowitz brings so much to the interpretation such that the piece becomes Horowitian. Horowtiz brings so many colors, which I've never heard from other pianists. Don't you agree?

I was trying to use humor. But, as a performer you should know that the beautify (or other forms of reactions) is in the eyes of the beholder.

[DurcheinanderWelt]

@DurcheinanderWelt Okay sorry my answer sounds a bit too heavy as it should! I'm sorry. (and i'm sorry about my english) Yes i totally agree it's just an endless dream i'm always thinking of that one day i could play just a little little little bit like Horowitz but it's a dream. I just want to say although i understand what you mean, without Chopin, Horowitz would have had nothing (maybe he would had it written himself...) with what he could have expressed his feelings.(: you understand?

[gengenthebomb]

I think Roger Woodward's version is the best

[umdala]

I love Rubinstein's version, but the older I get, the less intrigued by his recordings I become - too pedestrian and sugary. Horowitz and Perahia's interpretations are so individual and gripping. As for not following the score exactly, neither did Chopin in his day, and though he himself said Liszt took liberties with his works, he loved the way Liszt played them. Imparting personality upon the work is key to a moving performance.

[christy900r]

elegant performance and lyrics.

[FredilYupigo]

What a thought-provoking recording.

That's all I can say for now. I'll have to listen to it a few dozen more times.

[Hendo1145]

His emotion left me speechless, specifically from 8:03 - 8:33

[pipeorganloverNJP]

At 2:28 was it the recording's fault or was it a mistake?

[Kachukeland]

@pipeorganloverNJP I heard no mistake. what are you referring to?  (perhaps you are referring to the part where he brings out the counter melody?)

[pipeorganloverNJP]

@Kachukeland Between 2:29 to be precise. He either missed a note or the recording is inconsistent.

[tdennison22]

@pipeorganloverNJP Let me clarify this - it's right in between 2:28 and 2:29 after the trill, he plays a high D flat and then the higher B flat. I had to look at the music and sure enough, it's an arpeggiated 2 note chord (D flat and B flat). So that lower note your hearing is correct, most musicians play both those notes together (me included), but there's actually an arpeggio written. Horowitz plays it textbook.

[Raggedy9]

@pipeorganloverNJP It's not a mistake. Horowitz chooses to begin the trill on the upper note (A-flat) rather than the principal note (G). It startled me too (he really emphasizes the A-flat) but it's not incorrect, just an unusual choice. I think he did it to connect the preceding B-flat to the G.

There are some amazingly poetic nuances in this performance.

[pipeorganloverNJP]

@Raggedy9 Actually I was referring to around 2:29 (after the trill), where it sounds like it falls to a low note abruptly. In other renditions, except for Arrau's, the high note is played twice, like in the subsequent repeat of the tune.

[Kachukeland]

@pipeorganloverNJP i don't hear it.

[purerhodium]

@pipeorganloverNJP I think I know what you mean. Yes, I do believe he missed a note - he plays only an E-flat instead of an E-flat and a G. Doesn't quite bother me though, although it does alter the main melody line there.

[Kachukeland]

@purerhodium ooooohhhhh! I get what he's saying now. It's not a mistake, he just brought out the counter melody. The main melody trails off as the counter melody plays loudly, then the counter melody trails off as the main melody comes back, then the two melodies play simultaneously at the end... i love it!

So, horowitz didn't actually change a note or make any mistakes, he just emphasized a part that not many other performers do. At about 8:23, he emphasized another hidden counter melody.

[tdennison22]

@Raggedy9 @pipeorganloverNJP Let me clarify this - it's right in between 2:28 and 2:29 after the trill, he plays a high D flat and then the higher B flat. I had to look at the music and sure enough, it's an arpeggiated 2 note chord (D flat and B flat). So that lower note your hearing is correct, most musicians play both those notes together (me included), but there's actually an arpeggio written. Horowitz plays it textbook.

[paradajz13]

this is pure fantasy.

[tipirnapa]

good recording, flawless..

[Gothic1982]

Somehow, although this interpretation is not as clean as Zimerman's, I prefer this one - there is more emotion to Horowitz's playing.

[Kachukeland]

there are more mistakes in Horowitz performances, but there's a reason he was called the Last Romantic. Such great interpretations.

[pipeorganloverNJP]

@Gothic1982 My thoughts exactly.

[arwena55]

I don't like it, it is about nothing this playing, this interpretation, I am able just to listen 3 minutes, it is a misunderstanding, he is searching a way, but he is lost, complete failure, omg, it gets worse.I quit

[Kachukeland]

if you can't handle it, you can watch a short version i uploaded. It's called Horowitz Highlights, and it's all the best parts.

...quitter... lol

[arwena55]

I used to enjoy Horowitz, although he cheats often, but here he is empty. I am trying to motivate myself to at least listen to the whole piece, but around 3:00 gets really horrible, he has no idea what to do here, so he thought, well, I will make some mess and we will see. pretentious decadence with some aspiration to move a listener at last (?), weird.

[preposterous3637]

i don't get horowitz so i can't appreciate his playing like the commentators below me can...nice interpretation...i wish he played a bit more fluid...sometimes it sounds too clean and choppy

[pipeorganloverNJP]

@preposterous3637 But that's Horowitz's style. He doesn't use the pedal really often and his playing is generally more staccato than other pianists. I'm not sure if staccato is the right word, but you get the idea. And somehow I like his style the most.

[Snuggelz220290]

stunningly original and beautifull presentation of one of Chopin's masterworks...

without any doubt my favorite interpretation.

[jazzlover06]

Looking at the music, it is clear Horowitz doesn't heed Chopin's markings... Good for him!! Such great interpretation would lend itself well to composition; you up for it Horowitz?! (Please please please please pretty please?)

[RAINBOWHORSES]

Two minutes thirty seconds in, my heart melted.

[elements201]

Horowitz is a beast.

[JakeMDavey]

@rocklikeluda "song"...

[cjmg85]

Just listened to an entire Richter performance. Powerful as he plays (especially that coda!) I still prefer Rubinstein above them all. He just has the right touch. Again though, probably because that's what I'm must used to hearing.

[jazzlover06]

Try Ashkenazy... he reckons with these guys too.

[cjmg85]

Interesting recording, especially the coda, but I must say I like Rubinstein the best. Maybe that's just because it's the recording that I'm most used to listening to, though. Zimmerman isn't bad, and I have yet to listen to Richter (except for the coda, which was pretty darn good).

[opuspocus5553]

wow he adds so much and theres hardly any regard for chopin's markings and his tempos are all over the place- yet he makes it so captivating! and he adds notes wherever he wants to! haha! like the last 4 chords he changes the left hand from just octaves to these hugeee full chords.

[Kachukeland]

that's right, I love his last four chords so much that I use his chords when I play it. I think what he does is:

1st chord - add a fifth between the octaves in the left hand

2nd chord - play a root, fifth, and tenth in the left hand

3rd and 4th chord - play a fifth between the octaves in the left hand

If you play the piano, these chords are FUN to play just by themselves! You feel so... powerful!

anyway, sorry about getting so excited, heh heh. Thanks for the comment. : )

[sinding81]

horowitz is too much, also for chopin. horowitz doesn't care about anyone, he likes himself in his notes. he's pure heart

[NordicHealer]

For all those criticising this performance keep in mind it was recorded "live" with no retakes & recorded when Horowitz was 80 yra old! With that in mind it is indeed a Great performance filled with unexpected pianistic sorcery & special coloristic wizzardry that greatly heightens Interest & makes his creation Fresh, Unique, astounding... something the "others" cannot ever seem to do. If you like the PLAINER, PREDICTABLE, Letter Of The Law type performances then by all means stay with Rubinstein

[Kachukeland]

...that's why Horowitz was called 'the Last Romantic'. Hooray! : )

[darkkerrigan]

Perahia's performance of this will always be my favorite =)

[Karamellstreifen]

beautiful

[GrandPatzer]

What do you think of Perahia's video of his Chopin concert here on YouTube?

[Kachukeland]

I just watched it, and it was amazing! His coda was nearly flawless, and his voicing was great. but I wish he would use more rubato in his performance. The piano he was playing was a GREAT piano. I'm jealous that I don't get to try that piano! lol

how do you feel about Perahia in comparison to Horowitz?

[GrandPatzer]

Perahia in comparison to Horowitz? I just adore Horowitz's interpretations, however, I think I might prefer the Perahia one. Horowitz had amazing control over dynamics, and he used a great range here. I feel like Perahia's rendition kinda reached out to me. I don't know why. I don't even know what a coda is...

[GrandPatzer]

But it's strange with me. I might one day like Horowitz's rendition more. I remember coming across the Perahia piece, and I quickly changed it cause I wasn't liking the piece. My taste for music grows in range all the time.

[Kachukeland]

that's cool, it's good to have vast tastes and changing opinions. Thats a good formula for progress. : )

btw, the coda is the part at the end right after the 5 soft, slow chords. The part that comes in loud and fast and scares you when you're not expecting it is the coda. (my favorite part!) : )

[darkkerrigan]

I am a huge Perahia fan and have even met him in person! I also have his video on favorites, but to be honest, his CD recording of this is amazing. This Ballade is my favorite of the four, and I do agree with you that I wish he had more rubato in his video - he does in his recording of it =) I also loved Perahia's technique when he was younger - it changed as he got older and his sound also. But he will always go down as one of the greatest for me.

[Oneirovore]

I'm going to recommend Zimerman, but I do also appreciate this one.

[comateensnyc]

Thanks for posting this.

Jeez, what an relentlessly un-lovely intepretation...tense, rushed, brittle, inaccurate, a mess. He seems to barge through all the most beautiful parts of the piece like he's trying to get it over with.

I'm a big fan of Horowitz, but I can't seem to get behind this peformance. For my money I think Rube recorded the all-round finest interpretation of this music ever heard.

But, what can one say? There's Horowitz, take it or leave it.

[sab3156]

Still... this recording has its charm and its Horowitzesque-beauty.

[sab3156]

Whoever considers this to be a great recording hasn't hear Rubinstein or Richter playing this piece.

Buy the Rubinstein Collection vol. 45 if you want to hear the Ballades played with divine essence.

[Kachukeland]

oh, yes,  I love Richter's coda. I have heard few Rubinstein Ballade recordings, but I've always liked Horowitz's the best, especially for his Ballade No. 1 and 4

[sab3156]

Interesting. I feel very strongly that Rubinstein's recordings are the most sublime, but Horowitz's has its own charm and uniqueness to it, as always. So it's still a very commendable performance.

[andriusha07]

listen to alexei sultanov

[hiqnative]

But where is the love? Sounds like he's improvising the interpretation. A strong interpretive agility comes across as always with Horowitz, but I think it is, dare I say, disrespectful of Chopin's depth. Rubinstein remains the most moving interpretation for me.

[glinzek]

Typical Horowitz performance. I can't say that I like it, as much as I have been a Horowitz fan for years. I prefer the Rubenstein -- he understands Chopin to a degree that I find almost mystical

[mltube]

It is a short-breathed intepretation. I got bored after just one minute of listening. There is no story line here. Wait for another 10 - 20 years, and then try Richter.

[4751606]

What a wonderful recording!!! Thanks for sharing out!!

[willistara]

thank you very much, Kachukeland...

i love this!

[Kachukeland]

I'm glad you like him. : )

[retrogamerdave]

It has some weird accents and the flow is a bit "jagged", if you will, and it doesn't sound like Horowitz is in complete control, like when he plays Ballade no. 1. Sadly, I find this recording a bit disappointing.

[Kachukeland]

really? well, what about the coda? did you like it?

[retrogamerdave]

well, the coda was definitely in a class of its own, very different from how I've heard anybody else play it, and I give Horowitz credit for that. I don't think that I really liked it, though. I mean, Horowitz's whole interpretation is eccentric, and not that that's necessarily bad, but I'm picky about Chopin and this recording just hasn't "clicked" for me yet. Maybe it will someday.

[chopin5440]

Kissin is a natural for Chopin. I enjoy the perfection of his playing. He does this piece well. but, I want the ballades played with liberty and abandon. Horowitz supplies this. I'll check out the Fliter recording. Thanks again.

[chopin5440]

Thanks again for the music.. What year was this performed? do you know or have any ideas?

[Kachukeland]

"Recorded in concer 1981"

That's all it says about this track. I wish I knew more, but most of all, I wish they recorded it on camera so I could see his hands and everything.

There is only one other recording I've heard that's as good as Horowitz's, and that's Ingrid Fliter. She plays it much differently, but they're both very good. I can't choose which is better, they're apples and oranges, you know. :)