The impossible Hamster (and economic growth)

[Kingofcats9010]

Thats me in a hundred years

[zbox720]

Economic growth can continue with better usage of earth's resources and a growing population. If we ever manage to start galactic exploration and colonies then economic growth could continue forever.

[flyingtoothpaste]

@zbox720 'if' :)

[bidoofidous]

This has to be the worst possible explaination of Economic Growth I have ever seen... thanks for your help :( (ps the hamster was cute though (>_<)

[TheCrimsonification]

Fat fucking rodent. Really fat fucker. Fer real .............FAT!!

[GazGuitarz]

joeyxdope 1 - What is......'a free economy'? One without chains? There is no such beast.

[SamuliGloersen]

Growth of economy is not comparable to growth in mass rather growth in mass * velocity. All mass is in existence. The faster the existing mass circulates the more the economy grows. In other words as that hamster grows bigger and bigger it should also move the mass it accumulates as fast as two smaller hamsters would. But it wont.

In other words: bigger the hamster, the slower the mass and the smaller the economy! That hamster represents a planned soviet style economy - not a free one.

[joeyxdope]

we live in a world where we trade green paper for mechanical touchscreen toys that display cat videos at the touch of a finger. emotions are manufactured and everything dies. life is nothing but a rat race into a pit of fire. sometimes i feel like spending my green paper on a revolver and a bullet and blowing my worthless brains out of my worthless head out onto the worthless pavement. the only thing saving me from death are the few people i love. other than that, nothing is worth arguing.

[symbal777]

@joeyxdope wow joey, you just brightened my day... fucking downer

[bisbeejim1]

Please name the economist and politician who believes this way.

[mphello]

Because politicians and economists are anti-communist anti-socialist religious extremist fanatics. I don't agree with everything in the philosophies of the multitude of different socialist political groups and laws. e.g. I do not oppose all war. I support war to reverse inequity, not maintain it. But, at least I can read the works of Karl Marx critically as I would of Elizabeth Cady Stanton or Benjamin Franklin or Tom Regan or Wittgenstein or Nitzche.

[espada9]

What a fucking moronic analogy. Economists do NOT all agree on the same economic models or solutions. Nearly ALL economists agree when considering economic growth that it is usually commensurate with consumer population and purchasing power.

Consumerism is for willing slaves, so is Socialism.

[pistol987]

what can you say... pretty much sums it up!

[RadioIlluminaticom]

How pathetic. The elite that created this problem now blames capitalism. Frst they collaps the ecconimic system with their FIAT currency scam. Then they point fingers at capitalism and pretend to be the saviors of the ecconomy by luring us into a one world socialistic diktatorship. Search on youtube "money as debt" and "obama deception". and "fall of the republic"

[TheFumbels]

i say we should nuke that asshole :D

[squirrelystoner]

Super Hamster Kill it before it MULTIPLIYS.....O_o

[RecordableID]

Got a real good laugh as the hamster grew ^^ Good way to make the problem understandable though

[bdhcarbon]

because economics is not limited by the physical. So the analogy breaks down easily.

[0000AllFitness0000]

@bdhcarbon economics is not limited by the physical? So what your say is that our resources are unlimited? Or perhaps just the money is unlimited, since it represents nothing but the abstract. Maybe that's where we fell off the wagon...

[bdhcarbon]

@0000AllFitness0000 No im not saying that any specific resource is unlimited. Hubbard is correct in that there is a finite source of crude. There are only so many elements on the planet. But...

A box of resources today is different than a box of resources 10000 years ago (,Cultivation tools, seeds saving, rocks and ability to sharpen metal, 1000 years ago, 100 years ago, even 30 years ago, 100 years from now. Thorium today is usless waste today but in 100 years, our economy will run on it.

[bdhcarbon]

@0000AllFitness0000 Also, you are completely missing the value of patents, distribution chains, marketing, innovation and the economics of supply and demand.

Tell me, what is the Mona Lisa really worth? maybe $10 worth of paint, wood and some canvas but go try to buy it for that.

What is your computer really worth in the physical? $20-30?

A patent is physical? No, its the bounds by which we protect innovation. Which is why Windows7 software costs $150 and not what its 'physical worth'.

[0000AllFitness0000]

@bdhcarbon Not to insult you because you are obviously very smart, but you are completely deluded. I mean...money is not wealth. It might be fine to have 10 trillion dollars but if there is no more trees or water then what is it really worth? I think that's what this video is referring to, not the man-made currency which can go on infinitely since it isn't real. Money isn't real...you do know that right?

[bdhcarbon]

@0000AllFitness0000 while its a great academic argument to allow that money is not real, try living in the real world for the last 2000 or so years on that academic argument.

I agree that there is a carrying capacity of the earth for any given life form because that life form is utilizing specific set of resources. Im a biologist living in Wisconsin and know all about the Isle Royale National Park having actually visited there.

But as I explained before, humans are not just any ol' animal

[bdhcarbon]

@0000AllFitness0000 As I said before, a box of resources today is different than 1000 years ago and 1000 years from now. Humans are amazingly innovated and have exploited resources that once where not resources.

Imagine your an upland gorilla and live amongst termite mounds but no way to harvest them so you ignore them be for generations. Then one smart monkey innovates a stick 'tool' to extract termites with enough EROI that its becomes a new resource. Bang the populating doubles overnight.

[bdhcarbon]

@0000AllFitness0000 If we all lived like hunters and gatherers, your right we are well over our carrying capacity of the earth. But we have increased our resources and that capacity is moot. If we extract oil, uranium and harness the power of DNA and modern medicine, we are now well under the carrying capacity.

I would even contend that because we have left our planet multi times, our carrying capacity has increased almost infinitely, or at least potentially infinitely.

[bdhcarbon]

@0000AllFitness0000 Dont get me wrong. Its a shame that we are losing biodiversity on the planet. Its a shame we are losing soil. I dont want to end up like the movie 'Soylent Green' and work daily for that to not happen. Technology and innovation is our best asset as humans. If gorillas were better at innovation, they would have invented the hoover vac. That's why we have 6Billion+ of us and there only 1000's of them.

The impossible hamster analogy breaks down for reasons i stated.

[mphello]

@bdhcarbon No, the hamster analogy is still correct. You don't even need this analogy. Infinite growth cannot occur on a finite planet. Call it zero-sum or the pigeonhole principle, if you want.

Also, technology will NOT get around the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Creating more localized order (breeding animals rather than going vegan, as we should; breeding humans rather than not) creates greater disorder (non-usable energy) elsewhere.

[RobbieApok]

fuck the world, i want that hamster

[wadosbn4lyf]

It has to grow for ever higher standards of living and consumption.

[AceGec3D]

HEY GUYS!!

ITS A NINE BILLION TON HAMSTER!

[wrenbrrd]

lol, awesome! Great vid. Nice analogy.

[NorthernCharmer]

mjambi - There is nothing liberal about the idea of economic growth.  Some believe it is driven by the private sector, others believe it is also driven by economic stimulation and the managed economy. What they agree on is the need for growth. Neither recognise that you cannot forever draw on resources and dump your waste in the finite place that is Earth. There is only one fragile planet. Growth in fits and starts will still destroy us. So no more humans or hamsters.

[mjambi]

As with most liberal arguments, it SOUNDS very reasonable - but go back and look at the INITIAL premise. Then watch the video again. False Premise: NOBODY believes in "endless economic growth" ! The way Capitalism can & does work (the video is Anti-Capitalism) is by booms & busts. FAILURES ("limits") Naturally occur in the system. Hamster stops growing NATURALLY - no magic stop-growing pill needed! But not always: sometimes they do grow too fast, & DIE. Naturally.  Then more hamsters.

[mineraalwater01]

we need a recourse based economy, the monetary system will be the end of us all

[Committee4Melbourne]

So are you proposing a one child policy globally to stop population growth?

Of course you are not because that would be silly and futile.

But your animation argues against building infrustructure to support a growing population, by pretending somehow we can stop it.

You people are the most dangerous threat to our childrens future.

[theones77]

i just got a hamster. i hope it doesnt do this :S

[mayhem380]

Spore Epic Hamster? :D

[JOCECIL]

see the video " the story of stuff" (la historia de las cosas)

[webkinzloveme4]

aww its cute, i want it. :D

[starkitty77]

Clever analogy!

[woodswoman783]

My brother is on the board of a bank and they can't seem to get this. They don't want to invest in small businesses that will stick around, they want to invest in mini-malls and "get rich quick" schemes. It took bringing in a small group of investors to get businesss like our cobbler and our local saw mill going. Meanwhile the mini-mall stands empty and the latest scheme maker has taken the money and disappeared with his mistress. Invest local with your cash-stop buying from chainstores.

[Michkuty]

lol hamsterzilla :O

[Vampiremuzz]

i miss my hamster ;(

[ssijak]

it would be better to compare this hampster to human population growth...

[whatoneknows]

The best metaphor I've seen for economic growth yet!

[TianWuJie]

sweet bro

[treon123456]

hahaha......lol.....hahaha!coo­l!

[Mesina2]

lol?