Gregg Dissembles On Reconciliation

[TedinLasVegas]

Yeah, what are you smoking? I'm fairly certain whatever you're on, its illegal.

[thejoyofvictor]

You know what's not constructive? Filibustering every single major bill that comes your way. Are you complaining about a senate maneuver named reconciliation? how about complaining about another senate maneuver called filibustering? It's essentially what republicans have been doing in this current congress. Knowing this, it's totally hypocritical of you to say that you won't get a chance to give this bill an up or down vote. It's hard to do this when your party threatens to not vote for cloture.

[ver506]

This guy is so dull. Evrytime he talks he sounds like he's whining..maybe he's always whining!

[TedinLasVegas]

No, that's just because he's using his intellect and liberals find intellect boring.

[ver506]

Oh OK, that explains it!

[greyflcn]

re: TedinLasVegas

==No, that's just because he's using his intellect and liberals find intellect boring.==

How is it "intelligent" to misrepresent Obama's proposal?

Obama's calling for a semi-private federal corporation to offer the option to purchase Insurance from them. And given the economies of scale, they can keep costs down.

Has nothing to do with de-privatizing healthcare providers.

[TedinLasVegas]

Um, maybe you weren't paying attention.

It wasn't D'ohBama's policy that Gregg was talking about, it is D'ohBama's politics (method of attaining the policy) that Gregg, and any intelligent person, is upset about.

How does the D'ohBama one hand call for bipartisanship and then take the least bipartisan avenue to achieve policy and that dialectic not get attacked, except by Republicans?

A partisan media that refuses to call D'ohBama to the carpet.

[greyflcn]

re: TedinLasVegas

Well last I checked, Dem's have been taking the bipartisan route this whole time so far. Making major concessions on all these large bills.

And Repub's haven't been budging an inch.

If Repubs refuse to be part of the solution, then that's their own fault.

[Mychaels]

Forget it. When the republicans are involved it will get fucked up.

[sirdaveysockrocker]

government between me and my dr? BETTER than an INSURANCE HATCHET MAN between me and my dr. at least in britian, NO ONE gets turned down for ANY MEDICAL PROCEDURE. so YES, PLEASE put the government between me and my dr so i can LIVE. "only socialized medicine will ever save the day, c'mon everybody, lemme hear that dirty word. SOCIALISM!"

[LeGioNoFZioN]

as a Canadian who has socialized medicine, let me assure you, it isn't the answer. But Americans are too stupid and too greedy to understand that.

what is needed is a new system because none of the existing ones work well enough. Equal shitty treatment is just as bad as your system, but the intellectually honest ones aren't going to say anythin yet. I don't hate my system, but I would have preferred the "vaunted" american ingenuity create a new model for a system we could steal to improve ours

[taoofmichael]

I am all for a new model for universal health care.

I dont think it should be completely free for everybody. I think everyone should have to pay something. That gives them a buy-in. And it gives the govmt some leverage (and a lot more money to work with,) to get PREVENTATIVE CARE into the forefront of the problem.

It should be VERY AFFORDABLE. BUT NOT FREE, in my view.

There are other improvements we can make on the existing systems in every other industrialized nation.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I would agree with you there. I think the first place has to be education. the fees and costs invovled with becoming a doctor must be lowered. Once many people can be doctors, it reduces the costs of employing them because of the flood of qualified folks. that is the first step and no one left or right has the political balls to pull that off.

[taoofmichael]

I think the "free market" of educational institutions will solve that problem on its own.

Right now, the big medical schools have everybody by the balls. With universal heath care, more people will get into med school who are interested in healing, and patients, instead of just money. Smaller med schools will thrive. I see good things for the future of American health care. At least a lot better than the status quo.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I think a free market of educational instaitutions would, but there really isn't any competition in it today.

the reason medical schools have this position is because of the governments and unions of days gone by. For true social justice medicine cannot be a position of the opulent, it throws every other effort into array. with universal care you all will deal with what we started to deal with in the 90's. Good luck......

[taoofmichael]

I have no illusions about the difficult transition the USA is beginning -- in health care, energy, and the wider economy. It is going to be a long hard road. But we have to do it. And it will be a much more humane and stable system in the future for our grandchildren.

With universal healthcare, small med schools will be able to get in the game, because there will be so much more demand for doctors, nurse-practitioners, etc.

I am behind Obama. It will be hard. But it is long overdue.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I wish I had your optimism, but living through the opposite does not leave me any more confidant your government will do any better than any other country that has gone in the same path.

I wish Obama well, but I am far more skeptical than you of the costs both fiscally and in terms of lives affected. I just can't ignore the flaws in the system, and perhaps I expected too much of him.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

... it just exacerbates the brain drain. Without regulating the costs for med school, people in that profession NEED to make insane amounts of money just to cover off the educational debts, some close to $100 000. The brain drain happened in the UK in the 70's through to the late 80's and it happened in Canada from the mid 90's to current day. Good luck when it happens to you next. sometimes people need to learn life's hard lessons on their own. I think your country needs to feel....

[LeGioNoFZioN]

... the pain in order to change direction. Its a shame your leaders went for the easy answer instead of asking the tough questions and doing something really good for the people.

[taoofmichael]

I dont think Obama's team has come down on any hard and fast answers yet. Looks like single-payer is out, but some kind of co-pay Medicaid type thing will probably be the choice.

When The USA goes to universal health care, we wont have to worry so much, like UK and Canada did, about brain drain. Where are the money-doctors going to go? No other industrialized nation doesnt have universal health care.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

the issue isn't universal health care, but how existing systems apply it. the doctors will go where the best money is wherever it is. thats what happened to us. I don't see it going down any different for you guy

[taoofmichael]

I appreciate the rational, fact-based debate that I get from you. I wish we all could have these sorts of rational discussions. Maybe we could actually get some problems solved for human beings around the world.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I agree, the current left-right partisan crap really bothers me. I am a conservative West Indian Canadian and the amount of times sensible things I have said get twisted into "republican" arguments. I argue positions I hold based on experience and logical merit. If my argument is fallacious then I admit as much. sadly today people are too focused on labels and not the content of our ideas and character. the sad end of another civilization, we sit upon the precipice distracted by semantics

[taoofmichael]

Right on Zion. I am a progressive -- Carter, Gore, Kerry, Obama (notice I skipped Clinton, who I consider a moderate Republican,) because I think the policies they espouse are the best policies. Anti-Vietnam war (obviously correct.) Anti-Reaganite trickle-down deregulatory economics (obviously correct.) Anti-Iraq War, etc.

But I value debate. And love it when the opposition has a logical argument. I do learn from it, and adjust my views constantly.

Republican talking points drive me nuts.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

thank you Tao, it is quite pleasant to meet someone on the other end of the spectrum who values reason and intellectual honesty. I'm sure if more people followed our lead we could actually get some positive things done.

I'm neither anti war nor pro war, I think some battles need to be fought, or at least for consistancy's sake support for certain allies should be done, but only when the circumstances support such action. Iraq was a mistake, vietnam I feel differently about. cheers.

[taoofmichael]

Yes. You would probably be surprised by some of my policy views. For instance: I freely admit that the welfare system in the US, and in many other countries, has perpetuated the poverty problem. I am for empowerment, not hand-outs. We progressives do learn from history. I do have a great deal of confidence in Obama. He is a very smart guy. So is his wife. I am not expecting miracles. This is a big ship, and it has been steaming at great speed. It will take a while to turn around.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I'm not really surprise you seem very reasoned from the limited communication we have had so far. I do hope you are right and I wish you guys the best with your new direction. I would like nothing more than to have the apprehensions I have had about Obama overturned by successes and great strides forward.

[gmanry]

While I don't agree with reconciliation on the part of the Democrats, the Republicans are in no position to talk as they basically used that threat to shut the Democrats out for a few years.

This is a bunch of whining.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

true and the democrats did that to republicans before, this is not the first time this has happened, its simply a continuation of a cycle. the fallacy is believing one side right and one wrong, it is always a case by case basis, with both sides making more mistakes than advances. I have no stake in your politics, I am an outsider, as such I have a much more objective approach. Leraving power in any one's hands for too long will result in corruption.

[davis80smusic]

no healthcare system is perfect, but the US's consistenly gives the worst and most expensive - UNLESS YOU HAVE LOTS OF MONEY - if you are pretty well off you are sitting pretty - for the middle and lower middle and lower classes, meaning the huge majority, they will get better cheaper healthcare if it's nationalized - I talk to my British and European friends and they all say the same thing, we are being made fools of by big medicine!

[CynicalSavior]

It's so funny now to hear the GOP cry that things should be done on a "bi-partisan" basis.

The game isn't quite as fun when you're on the losing end of the stick is it?

[milkgodnl]

Every other post-industrial country in the world spends a SMALLER portion of their GDP on healthcare .. and this Republican is claiming that we will be spending even a *larger* share in this sector? .. He must think us Americans cannot run a more efficient healthcare system .. and by 'efficient' I mean one requiring a smaller share of GDP ..

[whoo689]

A tree free market would enable choice in choosing an insurer. You would be able to select from a wider range of plans that cover different treatments. If government largely got out of the way, drug costs and hospital/doctor visit expenses plummet. It's no coincidence that the amount of spending on healthcare as a percentage of GDP went up rapidly not long after government got widely involved starting in the 60s. Before, it was only 4-5% of GDP, much cheaper.

[whoo689]

I find it silly that so many people think the answer to so many problems caused by excessive regulation is just MORE regulation. Or creating more federal agencies. Obama laments the fact that we spend 15% of GDP on healthcare, and what's one of his grand solutions to coverage and lowering costs? Spend an additional $634(or 643) Billion in the next 10 years on more gov't healthcare! How does that lower the gdp drain? What a bunch of doubletalk. It's so transparent.

[MISSBEBEBLUE]

.....Earth to whoo689....Earth to whoo689...come in, please

[davis80smusic]

Look at Europe - sure there are some waits, nothing is perfect - but be honest, you can't look at the statistics, comparing US health to European health, and not come to the conclusion that they do it better - we tried free-market solutions and THEY FAILED - time to try universal healthcare -

[carrierexchange]

My point exactly. If universal healthcare fails you can dump that as well. Though, I doubt it.

[davis80smusic]

so how come Europe and the rest of the industrialized world (who, by the way are laughing at people like you and wondering how you got fooled by the same rich fuckers who are keeping you poor and unhealthy) can get it done, not perfectly, but far better than the current American system, how come they can do it and we cant? we tried your way it didnt work it will never work

[437thx1138]

The Govt between you and your doctor or a paid cost reduction specialist between you and your doctor. I'll take the Govt. Cheaper if nothing else. And can't be any worse.

[sachaput]

Gregg favored reconciliation back when the GOP could push things through, but finds it evil now. You knew that the Fox folks would never call him on it.

[SubmarinerAndroid]

Gregg, summarized:

"No."

[JerezJulio]

Wow, what a bullet Obama dodged when this crackpot declined.

This is the moderate republican, can you imagine what a radical republican would be.

Judge you can pound in the sand all you want, we got 60 votes now.

[JerezJulio]

well we got 60 votes now.

[brabon1]

what gregg and wingnuts leave out, is right now, insurance companies, run by mba's get between a patient and his/her doctor

the idea that there is true choice is assanine

glad he isnt on the cabinet

the repugs have no power

let them bitch and moan

[zeroepyon]

He looks like he's reading.

[Richardgwm]

Gregg had the opportunity to be in the President's cabinet, but chose to stick with the obstructionists.

[yanikv]

Why doesnt he just say it. "I dont want darkies and poor folks to get real health care!" "Cant they continue to survive on band-aids and prayer, like they've been doin for decades?" "Why does anything need to change?"

[wimscheers]

You don't need to fully nationalize healthcare, just provide a decent basic care for little money. As the private companies will not be as cost effective, their only choice left is to stay competitive by going for quality. the poor get their low cost healthcare without getting screwed. the rich can still go their luxurious, expensive hospitals with cable tv.

[greyflcn]

re: wimscheers

Actually what's being proposed isn't providing federal healhcare.

It's providing the ability to purchase Insurance from a semi-private federal corporation.

And merely due to the economies of scale, the rates be significantly lower than what fully-private Insurance companies offer.

Much in the same way that the US Post Office operates. It doesn't provide "Free" postal service. It merely offers a low cost alternative to private services, due to it's massive economies of scale.

[whoo689]

If you want lower-cost health care, there's one simple answer: downsize DC! Government intervention getting in the way is precisely the reason it's so damn expensive. The market and insurance companies didn't just magically raise prices on their own. Much of the reason they have such high rates is having to cover so damn much. I mean, 90% of the treatments any insurance plan is required to cover most people won't use. they'll only use a fraction of those treatments or drugs. It's silly.

[grudgekeeper]

whoo, you theory is shot out of the water on this simple premis. You actually beleive that unregulated insurance companies will not raise their rates as high as they possibly can for profit. Most free market capitalist philosophies depend on morality to kick in when it comes to pricing and customer care. The past 8 to 10 years have proven this false. This is the reason we are where we are right now.

[MISSBEBEBLUE]

...and that we should trust the CEO of unregulated corporations because they have proven to be so trustworthy and to have the American people's best interest at heart.....right

[greyflcn]

re: whoo689

==The market and insurance companies didn't just magically raise prices on their own. ==

Sorry but libertarianism only applies well towards markets that are Open, Transparent, and Elastic.

[micahgee]

yup the markets arent free!

[route99]

Too bad Gregg didn't mind using reconciliation to pass Bush's tax cuts or to attempt to drill into ANWR. As long as we're securing tax cuts for billionaires or securing oil rights for ExxonMobile it's okay to bend the rules.

How dare those Democrats use that tactic provide health coverage for millions of Americans who were priced out by the GOP backed insurance companies. The hypocrisy!

[hellshade2]

glad you brought this up because i was going to...

[maineladydi]

Insurance companies are running (or should I say ruining) healthcare. We need national healthcare and the righties will one day realize that our present system is a huge mess and is extremely wasteful..

[toosinbeymen]

Gee, I wonder why that is. Maybe Rs' lack of participation on the stimulus where only 3 Rs voted for it after having an enormous affect on what was contained in it. Excessive affect, IMHO.

Face it, Rs are just obstructionists. End of story.

[greenfive]

Im glad I dont have an insurance company to stand in the way of my Doctor.I thought GOPer's were religious people who feared God, why don't they create Universal healthcare then?

[masterhook]

also love how the GOP does not want the government to get between you and your doctors unless its about abortion or medical pot then its there job to get in the way. 100% hypocrisie

[zeroepyon]

Great comment.

[Bigaphid]

Is having health care vs. not having health care one of the choices Gregg wants us to continue to have? This guy is a great America.