This song is the one reason why I will never listen to The Rolling Stones. Ity's too bad that Allan Klien is dead, I'd love to kick the fucker in the balls once or twice. Maybe even three times just for good measure. Fucking dick head.
What makes me angry is that Ashcroft claims that his version's greatest trump is the intro riff, a total "original" of his creativity. Not at all. It is rather a derivation of the chord sequence in Andrews' version. Sure that his song is great, but is not original, for God's Sake. Oldham based his orchestration on a very thin Stones/Staple Singers and created a gem. Ashcroft arranged it even better. Kudos to him. But Oldham is the man here. And gosh, even the sung part reminds me of the Stones'
I dont want to take the Rolling Stones side in this, but the sample uses the chord sequence, the strings, even the tubular bells and the drum beat. Its not a 50-50 decision. The Verve deserve atleast some credit for digging into an old dusty, dis used record collection and pulling out a lost gem from an ANdrew Loog Oldman record of all places. Because of them its one of the most recognised pieces of music of all time.
@Hasselnorris Agree with you that The Verve gets some credit for digging up Oldham's relic - but - The Verve did not sample. Sampling is just that - using something minimally...what they used of the Oldham version is 90% of the song repeated over and over and over. It's just not sampling.
That commenter is on track! Industrial and commercial music is supported with the monetary systems. Imagining entertainment industries not composed inside the capitalist monetary system; there would be anymore no controlling of tunes.
Get off Kleins back. Even multi millionaires have to make a buck. Ashcroft, being from Wigan, wont miss the money. Any dole wallahs worth his salt can manage on a tenner a week and be happy.
@shadycharacter220 Then what are copyright's for? Don't be so naive. Commercialized music is ALL about money, and the creator of the song has every right to laugh all the way to the bank. How does this sound...you create a brilliant song, then some some money grubbing guy comes along 20 years later and steals it for his commercialized song; all while laughing all the way to the bank. Does that seem right?
@surfbum5412 sounds good to me lol :) i disagree with copyright, and geniunely thing stealing other peoples ideas to make your own music is fine, it just makes sense to me, everyone steals to make art or music or literature all the time. if you make money out of it cus you either stole something else and made it into something which people LOVE, or you just marketed it better, so be it. its business, i dont like business but hey, thats why im sat here in my boxers arguing on youtube.
@shadycharacter220 If it wasn't about money neither of these artists would have signed with huge corporate machines. The Verve were with Virgin Records and the Stones were Atlantic, Columbia, and Virgin recrods throughout their career. Make no mistake about it, bands don't hand over the rights to their music to these corporations because they want to altruistically share their music with a larger audience.
@surfbum5412 lol im not saying musicians should restrain from making money from their art- go for it. sounds good. but taking money from another artist, cus they "stole" a bit of ur song... or whatever the hell they say it was. thats rediculous
Wow, when I kept hearing that the Verve "sampled" this song, I was under the impression they sampled it in the same way rappers "sample": by just using cut-and-paste and putting it directly into a new song. But it seems the melody was reperformed by a new string section in the Verve song.
@vipersquad They did! The sample is buried in the mix, it can be heard closely at the right channel of "Bittersweet Symphony" after the drum track. You will identify the bells.
Mick was totally against the idea of sueing The Verve, although he didn't have a say on it as fat-cat Klein holds the rights to all the Stones' recordings from the 60's.
I posted this on my facebook page saying, "Listen to this and you'll all recognise it as something a little more 'modern'.." Heh! Being a huge Stones fan, I loved the reactions! ..They were like, "NOOO WAAAY!!"
I don't get how the rolling stones got the credit... the verve used this version of the song, which sounds a lot different than the original. Did andrew oldham get any credit for this version?
Plus Jagger and Richards almost had nothing to do with the lawsuit. It was Allen Klein's company basically, since they own the Stones stuff from the 60s. Besides I would say that the real songwriter of BSS basic music shouldn't be Richards or Jagger but Andrew Oldham because I think it has almost nothing to do with The Stones' ''The Last Time''. Ok? So shut up talking shit about the Stones.
@carva9 I gotta hand it to you, good spot on that one. I bought into bad mouthing the Stones for a bit too, but it looks like you're right. That would be Klein's doing not the Stones if it was the 60s recordings, and nobody likes Klein. I agree with you about Oldham too, another good call. Hope this gets highest rated comment because it's the other thing people should know, besides that it should be a 50/50 split music and lyrics, like that kind of thing often is. Pretty standard co-write.
Also The Verve stupid singer said BSS is The Stones greatest hit since Brown Sugar (I know he was being sarcastic (and moronic)) but after Brown Sugar (1971) the Stones had #1 or 2 hits in the US and Britain as Angie (1973), Miss You (1978), Emotional Rescue (1980), Start Me Up (1981). Bitter Swipe never got even to the top 10 ever. And after that these losers never made (or copied) anything worth of hearing.
So, The Verve sampled a song that was a cover of a Rolling Stones song that they had based upon another song by The Staple Singers. Copying is part of creation. The Stones and the Beatles did it all the time. Then seems a little hypocritical for Jagger and Richards to kick up a fuss about Bitter Sweet Symphony. If everyone relaxed about copyright laws then the world would be a far more creative and happy place. I borrowed this copied from the film Rip: A Remix Manifesto. Give a shit.
@benpeps You are absolutely right. Rock and roll is filled with songs of dubious origin and questionable originality. So is the blues. It goes on. As Elvis Costello (and probably others) have said: good songwriters borrow, great songwriters steal. Just be creative. 50/50 split is fair, the Verve wrote lyrics to another writer's melody. Call it a co-write, don't take 100%. Especially if you are the Stones.
I always thought that The Verve just took the opening violins, but no, they stole the lot here.
I've changed my mind totally....all they really did was add the vocals. I love The Verve, but this guy deserved the royalties in this case, no question.
@judenihalmusic they did NOT just sample, they came to them, negotiated and BOUGHT the rights to use the song--after they made a better hit out of it, the owner(KLINE) became a wanker and said that they had used too much and demaded ALL royalties from the new song
@TOKE1666 ashcroft credits the opening violin riff to his string arranger wil malone. see "the story of bitter sweet symphony" posted by hharr001, go to 2:44-2:47.
Come to think about it. What if "The Verve" never copied this song? Would anyone today even know this version existed? It's a nice sounding orchestral version and would have been a waste if it only lasted one decade. If anything "The Verve" brought life back into this song.
When you steal something the original is gone and in the hands of another. However when you COPY something it is NOT stolen, the original is still there. So more or less the song "The Verve" did was a copy of this. Honestly the best course of action in my opinion would be that all involved with the original and copied version's should share an equal amount of the money. It's not like Ashcroft went around the world and stole all instances of Oldham's song lol. Just my opinion. Also I both songs.
@Reemii i love 60s music, massive fan of early floyd, the beatles, countless others etc, but frankly to say all modern music is not music is just a boring stereotype from people who don't open their eyes or indeed ears.
Maybe tune into somthing other than mtv2 before tarring an entire generation with the same brush?
If I just heard this piece of music, without having heard the whole Stones/Verve story, I don't think it would ever bring to mind "The Last Time" by the Rolling Stones. I guess I can hear it when I think about it, but it's so, so different than the Stones song. It would never occur to me that this was an interpretation of that.
@prime789 I kind of see Klein's point. I have no idea what the stripped down version of the Verve song sounds like, but the one that became a hit, the one that started being played on commercials and in movies...that's basically just Ashcroft singing over this track, and a little bit of other instrumentation thrown in. This piece really is the entire foundation of the Verve song; not just the strings- the beat, the melody and everything. I guess Klein felt that's not what he agreed to.
@Reemii the comment you replied to was stupid, but I hope you don't really believe what you wrote, because it makes you seem incredibly ignorant. There was great music in the 60s, but there was also a lot of very bad music. The same is true nowadays, and always will be.
I was having a little trouble connecting Bittersweet Symphony to this and still am. I hear it at times, but this has precious little to do with the original recording of This May Be the Last Time so I would think Andrew Oldham might have more of a claim than Richards and Jagger. Whatever. Bittersweet Symphony is far superior to anything the Stones ever did. Ever.
@hahahahaahaful I was. What I don't understand is how the Oldham version was even remotely connected to This could be the last time, this could be the last time, may be the last time, I don't know. Creative, I suppose. But The Verve made much better use of this music. And the way they used it was so much more connected to the point they made. They should have been given a medal, not penalized.
And the Verve stole the entire basis of their song from this recording. Stealing is, you know, theft. No doubt I could make better use of your money than you can, so hand over your wallet.
I bet your American. The most ridiculously ignorant and clueless people in the history of the world are somehow americans. They do most things on a bigger scale, the good and the bad, and dumb, backward, uncultured fucks like you they produce better than anyone. Either that or your just an attention seeking troll.
@hahahahaahaful That doesn't diminish my love for America or makes me fail to realise it's the greatest country on earth or love it. My business partner's American. and other friends of mine. My view is that is does everything on a bigger, often better, scale. Your religious culture for e.g. On the one hand Gospel gives us Al Green, J Brown, Franklin etc but also David Koresh and so on and creationism in science. I like think I see it as it is yet I stand by what I said about producing dumbfucks
NintendoDSVampire. People don't listen to the songs from the 1800's? Are you thick? It was all classical then. None of it recorded on anything. Just sheet music and orchestras. People still listen to classical today. And they will look back at a time when music as it is today was made for real. Not everyone's a thick, ignorant cunt like yourself.
yeah, now jagger and richards just come off as assholes. seriously. some guy cover's their "the last time"....a few years later, the Verve covers a COVER, and the rolling stones sue....................music managment greed, anyone? sounds like jagger and the band are royalty puppets for some greed mongering manager higher up in the record company. my god.
@kudjo24 The "some guy," Andrew Oldham, was their manager at the time. He would certainly have given them royalties, if any, from his orchestral album.
Also, I think it was less to do with the fact that Richard Ashcroft covered it and more to do with the fact that he didn't credit them. He tried to pass it off as his own, which, of course, you should never do. It's not right.
yeah, now jagger and richards just come off as assholes. seriously. some guy cover's their "the last time".......a few years later, the Verve covers a COVER, and the rolling stones sue....................music managment greed, anyone? sounds like jagger and the band are royalty puppets for some greed mongering manager higher up in the record company. my god.
@Reemii Ugh don't suggest that good taste is simply a matter of liking pop music from either one period of time or the other. So what if that's what sells a lot of music now? If you give a shit what popular media has to say about acts you don't like then that's just stupid and it's certainly no reason to say all music today is crap. A lot of indie artists do get recognition, and from the people that really appreciate their work. Don't such a pretentious dick with a chip on your shoulder.
@Reemii I'd just like to say that there are a lot of good metal acts out there. Like Dream Theater, Iron Maiden, Megadeth and others. THEY make awesome music and don't get recognition for it.
Good morning, do you like sixties? Listen and pod cast my program " great sound of 60' s " on the site plumfm. Greeting and made blooper in rock and roll.
Salut, vous aimez les sixties ? Ecoutez et podcatez mon émission "le super son des sixties" sur plum fm. Salut et faites gaffe au rock'n roll.
@AlbertoB1904 this isn't the only version of the song the stones were involved with. there is at least one other version, which includes Mick Jagger singing. and while the lyrics are changed, a lot of the melodic structure and cadence of those lyrics WERE ripped off by Richard Ashcroft.
@reddeadreview (cont. from below) it's impossible for 'The Last Time' to be "the most successful Stones hit since 'Brown Sugar'.....". 'The Last Time was from 1965, while 'Brown Sugar' was written in 1969.
@reddeadreview you are misinterpreting Richard Ashcroft's comment. He was not actually saying that 'The Last Time' was Richards' and Jagger's biggest hit since 'Brown Sugar'. In actuality, he was upset and bitter at the result of the lawsuit. He was being sarcastic. he was essentially saying 'Bittersweet Symphony' was the Stones' biggest hit since 'Brown Sugar', since due to the legal ruling, the writing credits for 'Bittersweet Symphony' were officially changed to 'Richards and Jagger'(cont
@Reemii well i agree with you partially and that part is that 60's music was good music but if you look at pendulum they are very creative with generated sounds and they dont have any sex in it
The Verve probably did it deliberatly partly to get publicity. Is it true Ashcroft isn't even credited as a song-writer on "Bitter Sweet Symphony" ? That's wrong: as his lyrics and the tune he sings are excellent and are an addition to what he plagarised from the Stones.
@nicknameSGB The Verve had succesfully and legally negotiated to use a sample from "The Last Time" but when Alan Klein saw how successful the record was his record company sued them saying they had used "too much", The record company won and Jagger & Richards got co-writing credit along with Ashcroft.
It's all legal bullshit but Ashcroft himself said it was the Stones most successful hit since "Brown Sugar"
i understand that the verve copied the music.....but the songs are composed also of the lyrics...so there is no comparison between this song and that of Verve...
@dengrego Uh no, considering Richard Ashcroft from The Verve (Incase you don't know wrote the lyrics to Bittersweet symphony and they made the classic part of Bittersweet symphony which this song doesn't use!!
the verve's version is way better than this wheter the stones own the rights for this song or not. oldham deserves royalties from this not ABKCO or the greedy stones...
@NintendoDSVampire Sure thing, ignoramus...The 60's is considered by just about every rock musician or soul musician to be the fucking pinnacle and YOU are telling us it was shit. Sure thing, IGNORAMUS.
@djfakt Wrong. Most rock musicians of the 60s STOLE their music from black singers. Plus the songs weren't all that good to begin with LOL it's pathetic.
@NintendoDSVampire Yeah, because all shit hop music today isn't music stolen from other bands at all. You must be deaf to think that artists from the 60's stole everything from blues musicians or to think their music sucks. There is a reason why the Rolling Stones and other british invasion bands are still around, because they had great music. In 50 years, no one will be listening to lil wayne, lady gaga, or justin bieber.
@xHoboMcGeex Yes they will, although all of them are absolutely horrible. The bands of the 50s and 60s were mostly horrid in the eyes of this generation. Notice how no one listens to songs from the 1800s anymore. Why? They are old and outdated and mostly have no vocals. The songs of the 50s-60s are boring and have slow beats, thats why only a minority of people like them. This song and most other songs will die off soon. btw I like music from 2000-2007... -_-
@NintendoDSVampire: biggest selling artist of all time were 50 and 60's artists.
as an expression of pop culture the 50's and 60's are by a mile the golden years with the 70' and early 80's began a declining curve of both sales and originality - why do you think today's young musicians are obsessed by this era? research the origins of hip-hop - electro - metal - dance they all have roots in the 60's. Open your ears! some people live on a diet of processed junk food.
@MrCountrypop Wtha re you talking about? Todays artist DONT listen to 60s music. Wth do you see MSI listening to THe Rolling Stones? They mostly listen to 80s and 70s music. MOST of today's music first started in the 70s and late 60s, NOT the 60s in general. 60s music is horrible.
@NintendoDSVampire lol the late 60's don't count as part of that decade do they.
MSI are derivative and unimportant they lift from various sources all which have roots in the 60's. geez if thats what you listen too your not qualified to comment....lol..try to get by the plastic fantastic. good food tastes horrible when your used to junk.
@NintendoDSVampire You really let your personal opinions blind you. Classical and opera music from the 1800 are still pretty big and are still finding new audiences with every generation. So does the music from the 60's or any other decade as well. You really underestimate the amount of people who still like this. It's not only people born in the 40's - 50's but also younger people. What sounds old and outdated to you can sound great to another person. Opinions opinions.
@atticthoughts Are you serious? Wth do you hear 1800s music on hit lists? NO ONE listens to it, it died a LONG time ago. The music from the 60s are dying. If you actually opened your eyes and gtho out of the 60s you would realize- it's dying. The beats are being taken to make better things and those better things almost always overshadow the older things. The Verve totally destroyed this song and made people remember that instead of this.
@NintendoDSVampire I'm not talking about (s)hit list music. There are other channels for music as well you know and for people who actually are interested in music will find them more rewarding. There is an audience. Music is a language that for the most part is timeless i.e the 60's spirit may be dead but not the music. Again, you let your personal opinion blind you because you simply don't like 60's music. That's fine. I'm not stuck in the 60's. Every decade has something good to listen too.
@atticthoughts In suppose so, but I think it thins down to a select few that were the best of their time, you don't see the decent small time bands of the 60s anymore, only the best.
@NintendoDSVampire I totally agree with that. To be fair, the music of the 60's weren't any better than any other the decade. They also had their share of shit music but the good stuff survived and that goes for any other decade as well. :)
@NeverAloneForever The verve took this beat and made it better. Eminem took their beat from the song "Stan" and no one even knows about the original version.
@NintendoDSVampire I think "Thank You" by Dido is quite known. I hear it on the radio here and there. I like Marshall but I feel more for the original. So, what does that have to do with what is better? And what do you mean by their? I believe Eminem is a his in that context. As for the Verve making it better. All they did was overdub violins and add vocals. That explains alot by the way. Referring to it as a beat. An entire orchestrated piece referred to as a beat. Yay . . .
@NintendoDSVampire . . . and might I state how irrelevant popularity is in what's better. It really has no fucking thing to do with it. Either you're a contrarian or a tool. My guess is you're like some kind of music critique Armand White.
Jagger and Richards do NOT own the rights to The Last Time. Therefore, they don't collect any royalties from The Verve. Do some research on Allen Klein, ABKCO records, and how The Rolling Stones do NOT have rights to their songs pre-1971.
"The Verve was subsequently forced to give ABKCO 100 percent of the royalties[4] from "Bitter Sweet Symphony", and Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were given songwriting credits along with Ashcroft."
@3amPhoneCall actually, keef himself said, concerning the copyright infringement, "so, what do we do, just let 'em rip us off"?
like he never pinched a riff from bo diddely or chuck berry. matter of fact, that is a serious bone of contention with berry himself, who has said "fuck keith richards"
what gets me is where did the Stones get this riff from? I bet it came conscious or subconsciously from non copyrighted blues or classical track. Thanx to the Stones the music industry is virtually dead as record companies will not produce anything that is not way out or totally unique, to make sure they dont get sued. I havent bought an album in years, the new bands suck & its not their fault, but greedy guys like Jagger & Richards who want to dominate music forever, boycott them!!!!
This is EXACTLY the same sound as the extended variation of Bittersweet symphony from single #2. Never ever heard this before so could not say really, but the SAtones still ripped them off! grr.
@M80sgirl Of course you are not the first that search "the last time" and hear it and then put comments about how its nothing like bittersweet symphony, people should do some research after talking bullshit.
@MarioMoreno Yeah I know. You are completely right and I'm usually very good at researching topics (even ones like these that aren't exactly life changing) before I form an opinion, but I guess I just got lazy. And I also agree with Oldham being the genius and the stones' version not being the best.
This song doesn't sound anything like Last Time as far as I'm concerned. Now that I know it is, I can see that perhaps a few bits sound the same, but the main hook of the song (the bit used in Bittersweet Symphony) seems to be entirely original. The Andrew Oldham Orchestra were being very honest when they said that that was the song they were trying to do.
as much as i like the stones, they shouldn't get writer's credits for bittersweet symphony. in what way shape or form could they possibly have claimed FULL writer's credits, when it sounds nothing like 'the last time'?
@Jimbobadoogle This is an Andrew Oldham arrangement based on a Stone’s tune. While it takes a leap of the imagination to hear “The Last Time” in Oldham’s tune, he credited The Stones nonetheless. The Verve sampled Oldham’s arrangement, slapped on some embellishments / vocals and voilà… “Bittersweet…” was born. Ashcraft's vocals and lyrics add significantly to the vibe in “Bittersweet…”, but, in my opinion, it became a hit primarily because of the atmosphere created in Oldham’s piece.
@Jimbobadoogle As I understand it, The Verve paid for the sample, so they probably should have gotten a cut. If somebody got screwed in the big picture, it seems to me that it was The Stones when they lost the rights to all of their music prior to 1971 to Allen Klein. It wasn't The Stones that sued The Verve.
@Jimbobadoogle - (sorry to keep using your post, last reply, I promise). Should The Staple Singers have gotten royalties from the stones mega-hit “The Last Time”? Of course not: 1) The Staples were doing their version of a trad gospel song 2) Aside from the line “may be the last time, I don't know”, the Stone’s “The Last Time” is a quite different song from what The Staples recorded 3) The opening riff of the Stone’s tune is powerful enough by itself to warrant a chunk of the royalties.
@Chintendoeddman Watch the documentary "RiP: A Remix Manifesto".
The Rolling Stones covered "The Last Time" (a traditional song originally recorded by The Staples). This is a Symphony version of that Song.
The Verve looped this track and changed the pitch.
The Publishers of the Rolling Stones sued the Verve and got full royalties (even though it is not a Rolling stones track but a cover of a cover). They then sold the song to Nike for a commercial.
@BadCheese00 This cover is like a very slow version of "The Last Time". If you start listening at 1:05 to 1:29, it's a very stretched out version of when the Rolling Stones sing "This may be the last time, this may be the last time, may be the last time, I don't know" line.
This song is the one reason why I will never listen to The Rolling Stones. Ity's too bad that Allan Klien is dead, I'd love to kick the fucker in the balls once or twice. Maybe even three times just for good measure. Fucking dick head.
bobbie4 10 months ago
What makes me angry is that Ashcroft claims that his version's greatest trump is the intro riff, a total "original" of his creativity. Not at all. It is rather a derivation of the chord sequence in Andrews' version. Sure that his song is great, but is not original, for God's Sake. Oldham based his orchestration on a very thin Stones/Staple Singers and created a gem. Ashcroft arranged it even better. Kudos to him. But Oldham is the man here. And gosh, even the sung part reminds me of the Stones'
Garotoso 10 months ago
I dont want to take the Rolling Stones side in this, but the sample uses the chord sequence, the strings, even the tubular bells and the drum beat. Its not a 50-50 decision. The Verve deserve atleast some credit for digging into an old dusty, dis used record collection and pulling out a lost gem from an ANdrew Loog Oldman record of all places. Because of them its one of the most recognised pieces of music of all time.
Hasselnorris 10 months ago
@Hasselnorris Agree with you that The Verve gets some credit for digging up Oldham's relic - but - The Verve did not sample. Sampling is just that - using something minimally...what they used of the Oldham version is 90% of the song repeated over and over and over. It's just not sampling.
mimpdog 10 months ago
That commenter is on track! Industrial and commercial music is supported with the monetary systems. Imagining entertainment industries not composed inside the capitalist monetary system; there would be anymore no controlling of tunes.
SlimeAmTheBest 10 months ago
Get off Kleins back. Even multi millionaires have to make a buck. Ashcroft, being from Wigan, wont miss the money. Any dole wallahs worth his salt can manage on a tenner a week and be happy.
horse69outside 11 months ago
Fuck the Verve! Stones Rule!
telecasterhst69 11 months ago
@telecasterhst69 i watch your comment. and then i see, you don' know what music means.
dirtyhour 11 months ago
i actually like this son along with verve's version, there is great possibility for remixes in this cover.
I like how the timing is slightly different and the different progressions
AakwardAardvark 11 months ago
its music, not money. to take money from someone cus theyve used a bit of ur song and made something new makes you a fucking cunt. imo
shadycharacter220 11 months ago
@shadycharacter220 Then what are copyright's for? Don't be so naive. Commercialized music is ALL about money, and the creator of the song has every right to laugh all the way to the bank. How does this sound...you create a brilliant song, then some some money grubbing guy comes along 20 years later and steals it for his commercialized song; all while laughing all the way to the bank. Does that seem right?
surfbum5412 10 months ago
@surfbum5412 ... and hypothetically if a profession wants the public to hear what they created, they would give it for free.
SlimeTron5000 10 months ago
@surfbum5412 sounds good to me lol :) i disagree with copyright, and geniunely thing stealing other peoples ideas to make your own music is fine, it just makes sense to me, everyone steals to make art or music or literature all the time. if you make money out of it cus you either stole something else and made it into something which people LOVE, or you just marketed it better, so be it. its business, i dont like business but hey, thats why im sat here in my boxers arguing on youtube.
shadycharacter220 10 months ago
@shadycharacter220 If it wasn't about money neither of these artists would have signed with huge corporate machines. The Verve were with Virgin Records and the Stones were Atlantic, Columbia, and Virgin recrods throughout their career. Make no mistake about it, bands don't hand over the rights to their music to these corporations because they want to altruistically share their music with a larger audience.
surfbum5412 10 months ago
@surfbum5412 lol im not saying musicians should restrain from making money from their art- go for it. sounds good. but taking money from another artist, cus they "stole" a bit of ur song... or whatever the hell they say it was. thats rediculous
shadycharacter220 10 months ago
Wow, when I kept hearing that the Verve "sampled" this song, I was under the impression they sampled it in the same way rappers "sample": by just using cut-and-paste and putting it directly into a new song. But it seems the melody was reperformed by a new string section in the Verve song.
vipersquad 11 months ago
@vipersquad They did! The sample is buried in the mix, it can be heard closely at the right channel of "Bittersweet Symphony" after the drum track. You will identify the bells.
SlimeTron5000 10 months ago
@SlimeTron5000 Thanks! I'll give it a listen when I get a chance and pay close attention to the right speaker.
vipersquad 10 months ago
Mick was totally against the idea of sueing The Verve, although he didn't have a say on it as fat-cat Klein holds the rights to all the Stones' recordings from the 60's.
I posted this on my facebook page saying, "Listen to this and you'll all recognise it as something a little more 'modern'.." Heh! Being a huge Stones fan, I loved the reactions! ..They were like, "NOOO WAAAY!!"
TheRowlandstone73 11 months ago
I don't get how the rolling stones got the credit... the verve used this version of the song, which sounds a lot different than the original. Did andrew oldham get any credit for this version?
phatato 11 months ago
its just good to see someone getting ripped off, yknow
buddddayboy 11 months ago
Plus Jagger and Richards almost had nothing to do with the lawsuit. It was Allen Klein's company basically, since they own the Stones stuff from the 60s. Besides I would say that the real songwriter of BSS basic music shouldn't be Richards or Jagger but Andrew Oldham because I think it has almost nothing to do with The Stones' ''The Last Time''. Ok? So shut up talking shit about the Stones.
carva9 11 months ago
@carva9 I gotta hand it to you, good spot on that one. I bought into bad mouthing the Stones for a bit too, but it looks like you're right. That would be Klein's doing not the Stones if it was the 60s recordings, and nobody likes Klein. I agree with you about Oldham too, another good call. Hope this gets highest rated comment because it's the other thing people should know, besides that it should be a 50/50 split music and lyrics, like that kind of thing often is. Pretty standard co-write.
blakedawg76 11 months ago 2
Also The Verve stupid singer said BSS is The Stones greatest hit since Brown Sugar (I know he was being sarcastic (and moronic)) but after Brown Sugar (1971) the Stones had #1 or 2 hits in the US and Britain as Angie (1973), Miss You (1978), Emotional Rescue (1980), Start Me Up (1981). Bitter Swipe never got even to the top 10 ever. And after that these losers never made (or copied) anything worth of hearing.
carva9 11 months ago
Can somebody tell if The Verve has ever had a US # 1 hit on Billboard? Just curious.
And what is the name of that other big hit they had after Bitter Shit Symphony?
carva9 11 months ago
The Verve can suck it. Write your own music next time.
bgg222 11 months ago
The Rolling Stones copied everything off The Beatles anyway.
dead0piggy 11 months ago
So, The Verve sampled a song that was a cover of a Rolling Stones song that they had based upon another song by The Staple Singers. Copying is part of creation. The Stones and the Beatles did it all the time. Then seems a little hypocritical for Jagger and Richards to kick up a fuss about Bitter Sweet Symphony. If everyone relaxed about copyright laws then the world would be a far more creative and happy place. I borrowed this copied from the film Rip: A Remix Manifesto. Give a shit.
benpeps 11 months ago
@benpeps You are absolutely right. Rock and roll is filled with songs of dubious origin and questionable originality. So is the blues. It goes on. As Elvis Costello (and probably others) have said: good songwriters borrow, great songwriters steal. Just be creative. 50/50 split is fair, the Verve wrote lyrics to another writer's melody. Call it a co-write, don't take 100%. Especially if you are the Stones.
blakedawg76 11 months ago
@blakedawg76 Elvis Presley's "Love Me Tender" was actually an American Civil War song called "Aura Lea".
Aeolis7 11 months ago
actually i prefer the version of the verve, but indeed they took a lot of the rolling stones. they're both good ;p
elleke333 1 year ago
I always thought that The Verve just took the opening violins, but no, they stole the lot here.
I've changed my mind totally....all they really did was add the vocals. I love The Verve, but this guy deserved the royalties in this case, no question.
DoctorMeatDic 1 year ago
@DoctorMeatDic
Royalties are fine, the 50/50 was a fair deal. But to take 100% of the earnings? Bullshit.
MikaTheAss 1 year ago 21
@DoctorMeatDic
the violin riff is original of the verve, the overture is from the stones. its a fair split.
10lettername 11 months ago
@10lettername Good point, but more than fair, Ashcroft did write the lyrics didn't he?
blakedawg76 11 months ago
@blakedawg76 true true
10lettername 11 months ago
The Verve didn't steal it, Klien's a dick!
MrPhyrestorm 1 year ago 2
I like how The Verve "sampled" this into his song.
judenihalmusic 1 year ago 2
@judenihalmusic they did NOT just sample, they came to them, negotiated and BOUGHT the rights to use the song--after they made a better hit out of it, the owner(KLINE) became a wanker and said that they had used too much and demaded ALL royalties from the new song
warcraftpeon 11 months ago
Why is anyone shocked a Jewish man (Klein) exploited the situation for money? I'm sorry stereotypes exist for a reason.
phatato 11 months ago
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judenihalmusic 1 year ago
the verve's version is definatly better, even though there is a very similar resemblance, the verve got ripped off!
salamanderrr23 1 year ago 2
Fucking Jews who ripped all the money from The Verve...
yessicaflores79 1 year ago
@yessicaflores79 Wow. Nice.
romeosdistress 1 year ago
i-dont-give-a-dam-about-everyones-pussy-ass-bitching-all-i-want-to-know-is-who-the-fuck-did-the-original-violin-tune-that-made-the-verve,water-rave,and-all-the-others-such-a-big-hit
TOKE1666 1 year ago
@TOKE1666 ashcroft credits the opening violin riff to his string arranger wil malone. see "the story of bitter sweet symphony" posted by hharr001, go to 2:44-2:47.
wallofvideo 1 year ago
@TOKE1666 Thanks for bringing some common sense into the "discussions"
eoj2495 11 months ago
any chance you could post some of the other tracks from the andrew oldham album? no one else appears to have done so.
wallofvideo 1 year ago
@Reemii sex has always been in music. tiger in my tank, jelly roll, back door man.
Pomeray8 1 year ago
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matiasguitar1988 1 year ago
Come to think about it. What if "The Verve" never copied this song? Would anyone today even know this version existed? It's a nice sounding orchestral version and would have been a waste if it only lasted one decade. If anything "The Verve" brought life back into this song.
jssi03 1 year ago
@jssi03 Wasn't copied. The Verve asked to sample the background music and it was agreed.
barricader6 1 year ago
When you steal something the original is gone and in the hands of another. However when you COPY something it is NOT stolen, the original is still there. So more or less the song "The Verve" did was a copy of this. Honestly the best course of action in my opinion would be that all involved with the original and copied version's should share an equal amount of the money. It's not like Ashcroft went around the world and stole all instances of Oldham's song lol. Just my opinion. Also I both songs.
jssi03 1 year ago
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jssi03 1 year ago
@Reemii taste does not mean agreeing with you, I find you incrediubly arrogant, not everybody has to share your "taste".
I don't know if you're intelligent enough to know this, but taste is individual and different to each and everyone of us
johndoex94 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire honestly I don't you're that wrong, I ,personally, cannot listen to the beatles.
I think that most of you are wrong when you tell NintendoDSVampire that he is wrong in not liking them, why can't you just let him be!?!?!?
It's the same for all of the beatles fans, they think that the beatles are the root of all good music and all other bands are a step below them!
johndoex94 1 year ago
this doesnt sound anything like the stones song actually.. they are just using the same chords.. :S
LordEizen 1 year ago
haha drums are almost exactly the same..
LordEizen 1 year ago
hahaha bitter sweet symphony xD
LordEizen 1 year ago
@Reemii i love 60s music, massive fan of early floyd, the beatles, countless others etc, but frankly to say all modern music is not music is just a boring stereotype from people who don't open their eyes or indeed ears.
Maybe tune into somthing other than mtv2 before tarring an entire generation with the same brush?
DarkShroom 1 year ago
If I just heard this piece of music, without having heard the whole Stones/Verve story, I don't think it would ever bring to mind "The Last Time" by the Rolling Stones. I guess I can hear it when I think about it, but it's so, so different than the Stones song. It would never occur to me that this was an interpretation of that.
MckyMseNTarotCrds 1 year ago
@JonFrumTheFirst, your comment: "Verve stole the entire basis of their song from this recording. Stealing is, you know, theft."
IS NOT TRUE.
The Verve DID NOT STEAL this song. They asked permission and agreed to a 50/50 split.
Klien argued that they "sampled to much" - AFTER - the song became a hit.
If had been a minor hit, he wouldn't have cared & taken the 50/50.
The Verve were ripped off!
It's Ashcroft's lyrics.
The live, stripped down, no strings version, displays a great song.
prime789 1 year ago 54
@prime789 I kind of see Klein's point. I have no idea what the stripped down version of the Verve song sounds like, but the one that became a hit, the one that started being played on commercials and in movies...that's basically just Ashcroft singing over this track, and a little bit of other instrumentation thrown in. This piece really is the entire foundation of the Verve song; not just the strings- the beat, the melody and everything. I guess Klein felt that's not what he agreed to.
MckyMseNTarotCrds 1 year ago
@prime789 Thumbs up to this guy everyone who has a brain !
+ That song is just great but I prefer The Verve's one a little, even if it's a bit repetitive .
PsychaMasutra64 1 year ago
@prime789 i dont like how the verve is being ripped off!! Love how they produced a masterpiece out of this, AND they had that 50/50 agreement...
Nickah37 11 months ago 2
@Reemii the comment you replied to was stupid, but I hope you don't really believe what you wrote, because it makes you seem incredibly ignorant. There was great music in the 60s, but there was also a lot of very bad music. The same is true nowadays, and always will be.
01AlanBennett 1 year ago
I was having a little trouble connecting Bittersweet Symphony to this and still am. I hear it at times, but this has precious little to do with the original recording of This May Be the Last Time so I would think Andrew Oldham might have more of a claim than Richards and Jagger. Whatever. Bittersweet Symphony is far superior to anything the Stones ever did. Ever.
dw45761 1 year ago
@dw45761 Try listening to the songs at the same time; they're almost in the same key.
hahahahaahaful 1 year ago
@hahahahaahaful I was. What I don't understand is how the Oldham version was even remotely connected to This could be the last time, this could be the last time, may be the last time, I don't know. Creative, I suppose. But The Verve made much better use of this music. And the way they used it was so much more connected to the point they made. They should have been given a medal, not penalized.
dw45761 1 year ago
@dw45761 If you can't hear it, I can't help you.
And the Verve stole the entire basis of their song from this recording. Stealing is, you know, theft. No doubt I could make better use of your money than you can, so hand over your wallet.
JonFrumTheFirst 1 year ago
I bet your American. The most ridiculously ignorant and clueless people in the history of the world are somehow americans. They do most things on a bigger scale, the good and the bad, and dumb, backward, uncultured fucks like you they produce better than anyone. Either that or your just an attention seeking troll.
Underground906 1 year ago
@Underground906
"you're"
Very classy way of representing your country there.
-- an American
hahahahaahaful 1 year ago
@hahahahaahaful That doesn't diminish my love for America or makes me fail to realise it's the greatest country on earth or love it. My business partner's American. and other friends of mine. My view is that is does everything on a bigger, often better, scale. Your religious culture for e.g. On the one hand Gospel gives us Al Green, J Brown, Franklin etc but also David Koresh and so on and creationism in science. I like think I see it as it is yet I stand by what I said about producing dumbfucks
Underground906 1 year ago
@Underground906 You can't say you love America but hate Americans. That's like saying you love a box of Chips Ahoy but hate the cookies.
hahahahaahaful 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
NintendoDSVampire. People don't listen to the songs from the 1800's? Are you thick? It was all classical then. None of it recorded on anything. Just sheet music and orchestras. People still listen to classical today. And they will look back at a time when music as it is today was made for real. Not everyone's a thick, ignorant cunt like yourself.
Underground906 1 year ago 3
yeah, now jagger and richards just come off as assholes. seriously. some guy cover's their "the last time"....a few years later, the Verve covers a COVER, and the rolling stones sue....................music managment greed, anyone? sounds like jagger and the band are royalty puppets for some greed mongering manager higher up in the record company. my god.
kudjo24 1 year ago
@kudjo24 Shut up will ya? It was a blatant rip off. I mean fucking hell. It's exactly the fucking same.
Underground906 1 year ago
@kudjo24 The "some guy," Andrew Oldham, was their manager at the time. He would certainly have given them royalties, if any, from his orchestral album.
Also, I think it was less to do with the fact that Richard Ashcroft covered it and more to do with the fact that he didn't credit them. He tried to pass it off as his own, which, of course, you should never do. It's not right.
dollydot123 1 year ago
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yeah, now jagger and richards just come off as assholes. seriously. some guy cover's their "the last time".......a few years later, the Verve covers a COVER, and the rolling stones sue....................music managment greed, anyone? sounds like jagger and the band are royalty puppets for some greed mongering manager higher up in the record company. my god.
kudjo24 1 year ago
Comment removed
kudjo24 1 year ago
@Reemii Who are you to judge the presence of creativity?
MDbam 1 year ago
@Reemii fuck you
aaridge 1 year ago
Where is this record avaliable? I really want a copy of this
Dafanmon2500 1 year ago
I absolutely love this composition. However, it sounds nothing like The Last Time.
huskyjerk 1 year ago
@Reemii Ugh don't suggest that good taste is simply a matter of liking pop music from either one period of time or the other. So what if that's what sells a lot of music now? If you give a shit what popular media has to say about acts you don't like then that's just stupid and it's certainly no reason to say all music today is crap. A lot of indie artists do get recognition, and from the people that really appreciate their work. Don't such a pretentious dick with a chip on your shoulder.
Harlequin374 1 year ago
@Reemii I'd just like to say that there are a lot of good metal acts out there. Like Dream Theater, Iron Maiden, Megadeth and others. THEY make awesome music and don't get recognition for it.
dragonman0000001 1 year ago
Futurama
Mittens2201ca 1 year ago
This is now only minorly popular due to the Verve and Bittersweet Symphony.
So F*** it... :-P
TheVerve480 1 year ago
oeehoeee i love this version!
popdani 1 year ago
the fact that the verve got robbed only makes bittersweet more sincere
camelotgeorge33 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Good morning, do you like sixties? Listen and pod cast my program " great sound of 60' s " on the site plumfm. Greeting and made blooper in rock and roll.
Salut, vous aimez les sixties ? Ecoutez et podcatez mon émission "le super son des sixties" sur plum fm. Salut et faites gaffe au rock'n roll.
supersondessixties 1 year ago
this is pretty cool
musictunes100 1 year ago
BITTERSWEET SYMPHONY
finkeLpro 1 year ago
@Reemii Don't be so elitist because your taste differs. You're clearly just too lazy to find the good stuff because there's plenty of it.
Harlequin374 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AlbertoB1904 this isn't the only version of the song the stones were involved with. there is at least one other version, which includes Mick Jagger singing. and while the lyrics are changed, a lot of the melodic structure and cadence of those lyrics WERE ripped off by Richard Ashcroft.
captaingrundy 1 year ago
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captaingrundy 1 year ago
@reddeadreview (cont. from below) it's impossible for 'The Last Time' to be "the most successful Stones hit since 'Brown Sugar'.....". 'The Last Time was from 1965, while 'Brown Sugar' was written in 1969.
captaingrundy 1 year ago
@reddeadreview you are misinterpreting Richard Ashcroft's comment. He was not actually saying that 'The Last Time' was Richards' and Jagger's biggest hit since 'Brown Sugar'. In actuality, he was upset and bitter at the result of the lawsuit. He was being sarcastic. he was essentially saying 'Bittersweet Symphony' was the Stones' biggest hit since 'Brown Sugar', since due to the legal ruling, the writing credits for 'Bittersweet Symphony' were officially changed to 'Richards and Jagger'(cont
captaingrundy 1 year ago
@Reemii well i agree with you partially and that part is that 60's music was good music but if you look at pendulum they are very creative with generated sounds and they dont have any sex in it
boomknuffelaar 1 year ago
i love this version great song.
gsg9angel 1 year ago
i love the verve song bittersweet symphony they didnt make a penny from it, look on the covers it tells you the owners , jagger and richards.
gsg9angel 1 year ago
The Verve probably did it deliberatly partly to get publicity. Is it true Ashcroft isn't even credited as a song-writer on "Bitter Sweet Symphony" ? That's wrong: as his lyrics and the tune he sings are excellent and are an addition to what he plagarised from the Stones.
nicknameSGB 1 year ago
@nicknameSGB The Verve had succesfully and legally negotiated to use a sample from "The Last Time" but when Alan Klein saw how successful the record was his record company sued them saying they had used "too much", The record company won and Jagger & Richards got co-writing credit along with Ashcroft.
It's all legal bullshit but Ashcroft himself said it was the Stones most successful hit since "Brown Sugar"
reddeadreview 1 year ago
i like it :)
and i couldn't be bothered reading ur arguement cos it looked silly.
but i like all music :D:D
120877477 1 year ago
@Reemii
you realize they said the same thing when the stones came out?
you are mostly right though...
artfulgoat 1 year ago
i agree with Reemii
dengrego 1 year ago
@Reemii Well yeah I do agree since everything has gone pop music SUCKS. But back in the early 2000s music was fresh and pretty amazing.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
A prime example of the greed in this world.
Why is it always about the money?
This and Bittersweet Symphony are both beautiful and Ashcroft should be credited for his lyrics to Oldhams version of the song.
Harusama 1 year ago
hey, andrew oldham should deserves some royalties too! not richards or jagger!
musmusmusmus1 1 year ago
i understand that the verve copied the music.....but the songs are composed also of the lyrics...so there is no comparison between this song and that of Verve...
AlbertoB1904 1 year ago
the verve just copied. I think they are just a verry crappy coverband now
dengrego 1 year ago
@dengrego Uh no, considering Richard Ashcroft from The Verve (Incase you don't know wrote the lyrics to Bittersweet symphony and they made the classic part of Bittersweet symphony which this song doesn't use!!
ThayHybrid 1 year ago
the verve's version is way better than this wheter the stones own the rights for this song or not. oldham deserves royalties from this not ABKCO or the greedy stones...
eddgiles 1 year ago
Bittersweet symphony??? oh damn!!!!!
andymccartney772006 1 year ago
This version absolutly sucks the verve's version is 10 times better
stephenson99 1 year ago
@stephenson99 Bittersweet Symphony wouldn't exist without this.
disturbedrocks992 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@disturbedrocks992 Yes but this version is TRASH. Honestly all music from the 60s sucks in comparison to nowadays
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire You obviously don't know anything about music
NolimitsPunkAsscom 1 year ago
@NolimitsPunkAsscom Actually your quite wrong. I love music, but I DO KNOW for sure that 60s music is horrible. I say 1970s+ was all amazing.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire Sure thing, ignoramus...The 60's is considered by just about every rock musician or soul musician to be the fucking pinnacle and YOU are telling us it was shit. Sure thing, IGNORAMUS.
djfakt 1 year ago
@djfakt Wrong. Most rock musicians of the 60s STOLE their music from black singers. Plus the songs weren't all that good to begin with LOL it's pathetic.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire Yeah, because all shit hop music today isn't music stolen from other bands at all. You must be deaf to think that artists from the 60's stole everything from blues musicians or to think their music sucks. There is a reason why the Rolling Stones and other british invasion bands are still around, because they had great music. In 50 years, no one will be listening to lil wayne, lady gaga, or justin bieber.
xHoboMcGeex 1 year ago
@xHoboMcGeex Yes they will, although all of them are absolutely horrible. The bands of the 50s and 60s were mostly horrid in the eyes of this generation. Notice how no one listens to songs from the 1800s anymore. Why? They are old and outdated and mostly have no vocals. The songs of the 50s-60s are boring and have slow beats, thats why only a minority of people like them. This song and most other songs will die off soon. btw I like music from 2000-2007... -_-
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire
lol.
i'm glad lady gaga makes it for you. at least she makes it for someone.
miguelbaptista 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire: biggest selling artist of all time were 50 and 60's artists.
as an expression of pop culture the 50's and 60's are by a mile the golden years with the 70' and early 80's began a declining curve of both sales and originality - why do you think today's young musicians are obsessed by this era? research the origins of hip-hop - electro - metal - dance they all have roots in the 60's. Open your ears! some people live on a diet of processed junk food.
MrCountrypop 1 year ago
@MrCountrypop Wtha re you talking about? Todays artist DONT listen to 60s music. Wth do you see MSI listening to THe Rolling Stones? They mostly listen to 80s and 70s music. MOST of today's music first started in the 70s and late 60s, NOT the 60s in general. 60s music is horrible.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire lol the late 60's don't count as part of that decade do they.
MSI are derivative and unimportant they lift from various sources all which have roots in the 60's. geez if thats what you listen too your not qualified to comment....lol..try to get by the plastic fantastic. good food tastes horrible when your used to junk.
MrCountrypop 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire You really let your personal opinions blind you. Classical and opera music from the 1800 are still pretty big and are still finding new audiences with every generation. So does the music from the 60's or any other decade as well. You really underestimate the amount of people who still like this. It's not only people born in the 40's - 50's but also younger people. What sounds old and outdated to you can sound great to another person. Opinions opinions.
atticthoughts 1 year ago
@atticthoughts Are you serious? Wth do you hear 1800s music on hit lists? NO ONE listens to it, it died a LONG time ago. The music from the 60s are dying. If you actually opened your eyes and gtho out of the 60s you would realize- it's dying. The beats are being taken to make better things and those better things almost always overshadow the older things. The Verve totally destroyed this song and made people remember that instead of this.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire I'm not talking about (s)hit list music. There are other channels for music as well you know and for people who actually are interested in music will find them more rewarding. There is an audience. Music is a language that for the most part is timeless i.e the 60's spirit may be dead but not the music. Again, you let your personal opinion blind you because you simply don't like 60's music. That's fine. I'm not stuck in the 60's. Every decade has something good to listen too.
atticthoughts 1 year ago
@atticthoughts In suppose so, but I think it thins down to a select few that were the best of their time, you don't see the decent small time bands of the 60s anymore, only the best.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire I totally agree with that. To be fair, the music of the 60's weren't any better than any other the decade. They also had their share of shit music but the good stuff survived and that goes for any other decade as well. :)
atticthoughts 1 year ago
@atticthoughts Lol they were better than the pop music nowadays.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire Better than what?
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
@NeverAloneForever ?
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire
"The beats are being taken to make better things and those better things almost always overshadow the older things".
For reference.
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
@NeverAloneForever The verve took this beat and made it better. Eminem took their beat from the song "Stan" and no one even knows about the original version.
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire I think "Thank You" by Dido is quite known. I hear it on the radio here and there. I like Marshall but I feel more for the original. So, what does that have to do with what is better? And what do you mean by their? I believe Eminem is a his in that context. As for the Verve making it better. All they did was overdub violins and add vocals. That explains alot by the way. Referring to it as a beat. An entire orchestrated piece referred to as a beat. Yay . . .
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire . . . and might I state how irrelevant popularity is in what's better. It really has no fucking thing to do with it. Either you're a contrarian or a tool. My guess is you're like some kind of music critique Armand White.
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
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Underground906 1 year ago
@Underground906 You are pathetic. No one listens to it anymore, they only use it as backround musiv for cartoons and movies
NintendoDSVampire 1 year ago
@NintendoDSVampire ''is'' NOT horrible.... you just don't like it.. it is that simple my friends... we are all different in the same way.. =)
LordEizen 1 year ago
its bitter sweet symphony's original.
STuN45 1 year ago
Someone told me this was originally a Staple Singers track. can someone tell ?
The flipside of Stones single "Last time" is "PLAY WITH FIRE" , sounds more like that.
wpDM34 1 year ago
Jagger and Richards do NOT own the rights to The Last Time. Therefore, they don't collect any royalties from The Verve. Do some research on Allen Klein, ABKCO records, and how The Rolling Stones do NOT have rights to their songs pre-1971.
3amPhoneCall 1 year ago 15
@3amPhoneCall I once thought that it was open domain since it was based on a negro spiritual. Apparently not.
Anyway, So the Stone's own all of their songs post-1971?
NeverAloneForever 1 year ago
@3amPhoneCall you are right about that, lots of missunderstandings in this case,
ABKCO is involved in a lot, have to do more research on the brittish group
Bad Finger, they had problems to,with there own matereal.
wpDM34 1 year ago
@3amPhoneCall The ruling wasn't that Richards and Jagger own the rights, it was that they are credited with the writing.
wolves750 1 year ago
@3amPhoneCall
"The Verve was subsequently forced to give ABKCO 100 percent of the royalties[4] from "Bitter Sweet Symphony", and Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were given songwriting credits along with Ashcroft."
miguelbaptista 1 year ago
@3amPhoneCall actually, keef himself said, concerning the copyright infringement, "so, what do we do, just let 'em rip us off"?
like he never pinched a riff from bo diddely or chuck berry. matter of fact, that is a serious bone of contention with berry himself, who has said "fuck keith richards"
edslides1 1 year ago
what gets me is where did the Stones get this riff from? I bet it came conscious or subconsciously from non copyrighted blues or classical track. Thanx to the Stones the music industry is virtually dead as record companies will not produce anything that is not way out or totally unique, to make sure they dont get sued. I havent bought an album in years, the new bands suck & its not their fault, but greedy guys like Jagger & Richards who want to dominate music forever, boycott them!!!!
naleyan 1 year ago
The chord arrangements are different to The Last Time.
Oldham deserves some royalties for the Verve's song - but the Stones deserve fuck-all.
pretzelberg 1 year ago
The real genius is this andrew oldham for coming up with this great instrumental version of the last time.
The stones version is not that good, and the verve just sampled this
this andrew oldham should get something out of bittersweet symphony, it was his riff they sampled
MarioMoreno 1 year ago
This is EXACTLY the same sound as the extended variation of Bittersweet symphony from single #2. Never ever heard this before so could not say really, but the SAtones still ripped them off! grr.
ThayHybrid 1 year ago
does anyone know where i can download this song from?
carlosjtown 1 year ago
Ok I was basing it off the original Rolling Stones version, but now hearing this I totally hear Bittersweet Symphony.
M80sgirl 1 year ago
@M80sgirl Of course you are not the first that search "the last time" and hear it and then put comments about how its nothing like bittersweet symphony, people should do some research after talking bullshit.
MarioMoreno 1 year ago
@MarioMoreno Yeah I know. You are completely right and I'm usually very good at researching topics (even ones like these that aren't exactly life changing) before I form an opinion, but I guess I just got lazy. And I also agree with Oldham being the genius and the stones' version not being the best.
M80sgirl 1 year ago
I was wondering how such a classical tune was created in my generation..
Now I know its a sample.
speeddddrt 1 year ago
thanks......you know why.
Dominicus3 1 year ago
This song doesn't sound anything like Last Time as far as I'm concerned. Now that I know it is, I can see that perhaps a few bits sound the same, but the main hook of the song (the bit used in Bittersweet Symphony) seems to be entirely original. The Andrew Oldham Orchestra were being very honest when they said that that was the song they were trying to do.
jozxyqk1 1 year ago
what a melody
Deceitfulness 1 year ago 2
If you listen to this I can tell this is not "Last time " it`s the flipside "Play with fire"
wpDM34 1 year ago
@wpDM34 You're wrong mate.
spackhollogay 1 year ago
as much as i like the stones, they shouldn't get writer's credits for bittersweet symphony. in what way shape or form could they possibly have claimed FULL writer's credits, when it sounds nothing like 'the last time'?
Jimbobadoogle 1 year ago
@Jimbobadoogle This is an Andrew Oldham arrangement based on a Stone’s tune. While it takes a leap of the imagination to hear “The Last Time” in Oldham’s tune, he credited The Stones nonetheless. The Verve sampled Oldham’s arrangement, slapped on some embellishments / vocals and voilà… “Bittersweet…” was born. Ashcraft's vocals and lyrics add significantly to the vibe in “Bittersweet…”, but, in my opinion, it became a hit primarily because of the atmosphere created in Oldham’s piece.
rda6565 1 year ago 3
@Jimbobadoogle As I understand it, The Verve paid for the sample, so they probably should have gotten a cut. If somebody got screwed in the big picture, it seems to me that it was The Stones when they lost the rights to all of their music prior to 1971 to Allen Klein. It wasn't The Stones that sued The Verve.
rda6565 1 year ago
@Jimbobadoogle - (sorry to keep using your post, last reply, I promise). Should The Staple Singers have gotten royalties from the stones mega-hit “The Last Time”? Of course not: 1) The Staples were doing their version of a trad gospel song 2) Aside from the line “may be the last time, I don't know”, the Stone’s “The Last Time” is a quite different song from what The Staples recorded 3) The opening riff of the Stone’s tune is powerful enough by itself to warrant a chunk of the royalties.
rda6565 1 year ago
This doesn't sound like Bittersweet Symphony ok. Who though it did?
Chintendoeddman 1 year ago
@Chintendoeddman Watch the documentary "RiP: A Remix Manifesto".
The Rolling Stones covered "The Last Time" (a traditional song originally recorded by The Staples). This is a Symphony version of that Song.
The Verve looped this track and changed the pitch.
The Publishers of the Rolling Stones sued the Verve and got full royalties (even though it is not a Rolling stones track but a cover of a cover). They then sold the song to Nike for a commercial.
moriluk 1 year ago 3
@Chintendoeddman you must be fucking mad, Bittersweet Symphony is sampled from this you utter plonker !!
i mean can you not hear the strings in the background ????
josephmonk1990 1 year ago
@BadCheese00 This cover is like a very slow version of "The Last Time". If you start listening at 1:05 to 1:29, it's a very stretched out version of when the Rolling Stones sing "This may be the last time, this may be the last time, may be the last time, I don't know" line.
kcxinkun 1 year ago
how is this song a cover of the last time? it sounds nothing alike.
BadCheese00 1 year ago