Gh-pregnancy/childbirth is a massive physiological change & leaves the body traumatised for some time afterwards & some things are permanently changed.
Itd be beyond ridiculous if you try to pretend otherwise.
Physical trauma aside, Im more concerned with the distress & mental trauma of telling a rape victim she has to continue with a resulting pregnancy. Forced sex, forced pregnancy- just as evil as eachother. Lets have a bit of compassion for the victim instead of boohooing over an embryo.
if ppl with yur degree of understanding of human sacrifice are counseillors or whatever, well thats downright disturbing
yu think a womans 'fucking stupid' for dying for her children?? thats either really cynical, or sadistic
of course pregnangy leaves the body traumatised, understood. im compassionate to rape victims, i think equally welfare and counseilling infrastructure need to be financially propped up
but as of 8wks thats no longer an embryo, its a lil person
duh it becomes a fetus at 8wks, the thing is yuve worded it slightly differently this whole discussion 'abortion kills embryos', well it kills feti too, and its more so that that bothers me
but what is open to interpretation is the degree of humanity of a fetus, sum would say its rapidly developing human traits make it a lil person
and a woman choosing to hav her conceived baby even if she'll die, real stupid huh? maybe yur mum wouldnt hav, but most caring mums would
at least have the decency to call childbirth an injury for crips sake. dont act like forcing a woman to carry to term isnt physically damaging. just admit to you that that physical damage is worth it to you. admit that you feel revictimizing women is worth it for the life of the fetus. dont pretend like you arnt treating the woman like a piece of property.
fair enough, i call it injury, psychological and physical. i know ppl that hav suffered from prenatal depression and that was completely voluntary pregnancy
ghz:woman choosing to hav her conceived baby even if she'll die, real stupid huh?
Are you kidding? No, most moms would NOT prefer to have a baby & die doing it! Do you have ANY idea how disturbed that thinking is? Its like being obsessed with aliens from outer space! You have irrationally connected to something that dosen't exsist in the realm of everything that is an integral part of our "human beingness," and you see nothing worng with it!
Gh "duh it becomes a fetus at 8wks, the thing is yuve worded it slightly differently this whole discussion 'abortion kills embryos', well it kills feti too"
Never mind your 'duh', it was ME who pointed out an embryo becomes a fetus at 8 weeks, not you. And I use the word embryo as that is the stage when most abortions are done by & there is only room for 500 characters a post, I cant keep putting 'an embryo & less commonly a foetus' can I?
Its NOT a 'lil person' & its pathetic term to use.
Gh "a woman choosing to hav her conceived baby even if she'll die, real stupid huh? maybe yur mum wouldnt hav, but most caring mums would"
What a complete load of shit. If you surveyed 100 women in the street & asked them if they would go ahead with a pregnancy knowing it would kill them, bet the massive majority would say no & look at you as though youre crazy.
How's it 'loving' to leave a baby motherless, assuming it survives? Im sticking with my original opinion on that- fucking stupid.
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vcmparlin
im glad you know the difference. what im getting at is that ive been talking about feti (that is to say gestated beyond 8wks), since before then im not adamantly opposed to abortion. however for much of this discussion you've chosen to refer to them as embryos, which downplays things and is untrue
well those abortion carried out before 8wks, so those you state are the vast majority, do not particularly bother me. a mindreader you may not be, but i hav continuously talked about the 8wk point, making it rather clear thats the point from which i disapprove of abortion. however you hav challenged my arguments about feti beyond 8wks, so throughout all of our discussion we've pretty much been talking about feti, not embryos. calling these embryos, that does downplay
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vcmparlin
lol, im not flattering myself, but i look at yurs, to make sure im clear as to what yur talking about. why 8wks? thats when an embryo becomes a fetus, thats also the time by which it has formed fingers, toes, eyes, brain activity and a heartbeat. THAT IS NOT EMOTIONALISING, just PURE FACT.
last sentence? hows that so, i havent spoken of pre8wks, so ive only spoken of feti, not embryos, let alone making embryos seem like infants. yur clutching at straws
Gh - go ahead and tell yourself that if it makes you feel better lol.
Youve been posting for ages, suddenly you leave a couple of posts mentioning 8 weeks and we're all supposed to automatically think of you as only talking about a foetus and only posting fact? I havent that short a memory.
Regardless of whether it has fingers or eyes or whatever, a womans rights come first. Fact.
for as long as ive been commenting, ive mentioned 8wks, at least the characteristics of an 8wk fetus. making it abundantly clear that as of that point i oppose abortion. i havent commented on abortions b4 this point, because i neither approve nor disapprove
whose rights come first? thats contentious, and this demonstrates yur complete inability to examine the other side of this. ghandi, JFK, martin luther king and mother teresa would disagree with you on that
those brilliant ppl, who b/w them saved the world, brought about the ultimate change in rights of the oppressed and won nobel peace prizes, cannot be discounted for their religions. their beliefs are at forefront of moral thinking, when you do better than them you can say their beliefs dont count
besides they were their various religions becos they believed what they did
gh:since before then im not adamantly opposed to abortion. however for much of this discussion you've chosen to refer to them as embryos, which downplays things and is untrue We refer to them as embryos, because 97% of all abortion are done in the embryonic stage. YOU prefer not to call them embryos because it dosen't have the shock effects of the word "baby", and its NEVER a baby. Now, who speaks the untruths?
vm:How's it 'loving' to leave a baby motherless Its "loving" simply because the baby breathed! ghiz, could then kick back in her Lazyboy, blind to anything the child will go through, and be completely happy with the idea that it took in oxygen. PERIOD!
Suze "vm:How's it 'loving' to leave a baby motherless?
Its "loving" simply because the baby breathed! ghiz, could then kick back in her Lazyboy, blind to anything the child will go through, and be completely happy with the idea that it took in oxygen. PERIOD!"
Surely not Sueezee? But that would be utterly BARBARIC!!! And completely unrealistic and naive! Not to mention pious and sheer, blind stupidity!
ghiz:but as of 8wks thats no longer an embryo, its a lil person A "lil person"? Oh my! It's not ANY size person, thats why abortion is legal. Your thiking it is a person, big or "lil", dosen't matter.
i respect most things you say, but you cant deny yur pro-abortion.thinking its ok for ppl to be executed makes one pro death penalty. you think its ok for feti to be aborted, yur pro abortion. im not denying yur prochoice but yur still pro abortion
btw, i, or those better than me, will make a difference, we'll make ppl know what a fetus is, and how its aborted, this will bring about anti-abortion legislation, ppl just dunno. i know sum v persuasive prolife ppl going into politix
ghiz: we'll make ppl know what a fetus is, Theyve known that for hundreds of years. Its why the Constitution uses the word human being for born people & why fetal rights aree excluded?
ghi:and how its aborted Everyone these days knws how a fetus is abortied. Did you think YOU were special in knowing, and no one else does? get over yourself.
ghiz: ppl just dunno
Oh please!! Who dosen't know ghiz? WHO? You need to get out more!
look i respect yur view, yuve womens best interests at heart
but from my pov, an 8wk fetus is a human being, it has characteristics eyes, fingers, brain activity, heartbeat. thats human enuff for me. so abortions only ok, if mums life in danger. it shouldnt be killed for anyother reason
of course i interfere, i feel morally bound like you'd if infant next door was being killed
ghiz:but from my pov, an 8wk fetus is a human being, it has characteristics eyes, fingers, brain activity, heartbeat Since when is YOUR pov what we go by? Why dont you know that eyes & fingers have NOTHING to do with the simple LEGAL term for a person with rights? And, how can an eye define a "oerson"?
lol, ive missed yur witty banter luv. what a punce you are, ppl havent know for hundreds of years, how old dya think ultrasound is?? only recently hav we come to find out, also NO, if you go about the streets of yur USA (i admit that is the most ignorant western country in the world per capita, so not the best example) and ask them what an 8wk, 12wk, 24wk fetus looks like and how its aborted, theyll mostly be clueless
Constitution, yur constitution allows ppl to shoot each other too
dont talk to us about ignorant. talkt about pot calling the kettle black. the pics you have are fake. a fetus is the size of a kidney bean nothing like the pics you prolifers like to throw out. the constitution allow people to shoot in self defense. which is why we allow abortion too.
did i ever mention size?? i mention other DEFINED characteristic, eg fingers, eyes, heartbeat
i acknowledge an 8wk fetus weighs about 8grams. but it still has v human characteristics, which bothers me. and size, well compare a newborn to a teenager, bit of a difference huh? yet its still wrong to kill either
in yur lovely USA, if a black person steps over the threshold, yuve got the right to shoot him, great innit? in our better governed countries it has to be reasonable
big differance between a newborn and an almost microscopic spot. i doubt if i were to set a woman and a testtube embryo side by side and somebody said choose one that most people would choose the embryo. what does being black have to do with this? i care about suffering and those who know what hurt is. that is what truly counts.
i never said you had to choose between the lives of either. they both hav the right to live, in fact the born even more so (ie a woman should be allowed to abort if birth will kill her). but the fetus shouldnt be killed so the woman can avoid giving birth
what does being black hav to do with this, no much at all. but when it comes to selfdefence law, it seems african american ppl are the victims of this law considerably more than caucasians
i said if you had a choice between pulling the plug on a comatose person or subjecting a woman to a sexual violation which would you choose? that was the question. i am done. your comparisons prove you know nothing of the vastness of trauma. i hope for your sake that your ignorance doesnt come to bite you in the butt someday.
i did address it. in the analogy i gave you, it wasnt a matter of death for the woman. you had the choice of either pulling the plug on the man or sentencing the woman to rape. it is outrageous that you consider having a penis inside you against your will is a sexual violation but you dont consider having someone living inside you agianst your will to be one. seriously now. if you believe that victimizing the woman is necessary for the fetus than just say so. but dont pretend like you anrt
robbing the woman of her humanity in the process. if that is worth it to you than fine. but saying the things you have been saying just makes you look immature and ignorant.
ghz:. furthermore that 'someone' inside you is a BABY, yur DNA, your son or daughter, and it cant help it Geez, you have GOT to understand that your thinking is rationally "OFF", and most normal people don tthink like you do! Your childish response in using words like BABY, son/daughter, & inside you, are sentimentalities that ONLY work for people who CANT use their heads .
gh: what if the fetus is female, wheres the womens rites there? fetuses have no rights. Pheeeew!!
'fetuses hav no rights'- another brilliant piece of dogmatic rhetoric from the proabortion brigade
once upon a time, african american ppl had no rights, once upon a time aborigines had no rights, once upon a time women had no rights, the world is an ever changing thing, one day feti will hav rights too, we'll regret what we've done to them
i suppose ghandi's thinking was rationally OFF too?
gh:african american ppl had no rights So what? When they were given the name of human biengs, they got them, just like a fetus when born. Get off the slavery crap,,you cant win w/that.
gh:we'll regret what we've done to them No, only you irrational people will
gh:one day feti will hav rights & one day I'll be a super model!
i can giv you lists of prominent names (ft politicians, doctors, human rights campaigners, etc) that disagree with abortion to a greater degree than i do. im not saying ppl that are prochoice are nutters, but neither are those that are prolife
that 'slavery crap', along with what i wrote about women, is merely indicative of society's previous mistakes, ie current laws arent necessarily moral or right (in any country)
'twould be nice if you came up with sumthing substantial
gh:i can giv you lists of prominent names (ft politicians, doctors, human rights campaigners, etc) that disagree with abortion I can also give you a recipe for spaghetti, and it will be as valid as what you said.
gh:that 'slavery crapis merely indicative of society's previous mistakes There are no errors in abortion. gh:'twould be nice if you came up with sumthing substantial ya right, after you tell ME there are people against abortion & you talk of slavery? Oh please!
ghz:slavery Only ignorant people with NOTHING else to say, use the human BEINGS of slavery as a comparision. Its why abortion is legal...it dosent matter.loll get a REAL debate going with somehthing besides hunder yr old billshit. Oh wait...you CAN'T!! LOL
By the way I'm done with you... I wont respond again. Your "slavery" crap is boring & redundent. I guess you have NOTHING else... but stay stupid. we prefer you like that!
suezee just contradicted herself, if she's pro-roe then she's prolife. jane roe (or norma mccorvey, her legal name) has been adamantly prolife for the past 15yrs
btw that case was a travesty of justice, reflective of the inferior US justice system
You dont have to teach me ANYTHING regarding abortion! She lied about being raped in her court case,gave birth to the baby, put it up for adoption. Said she was raped again, married a man who abused her, divorcedhim, has ANOTHER baby that she GAVE to relatives. She was a drug addict, alcoholic, played w/ lesbianism.Later gave up another child.She was a carnival freak show barker, broke, & depressed.Shes a nutcase. You people have NOTHING, do you?
no she supports the legal case of roe vs wade not norma mccorvey herself. and she only became anti choice due to religion. i would rather cut my stomach open than be compelled to be pregnant against my will.
apparently yur not. africans were always people, they only got rights as people more recently though. same will happen with feti. they dont hav rights, but things will change
what ive been alluding to all along is that just because somethings legal, it doesnt make it moral, like abortion now, or slavery or womens rights once upon a time
there are more and greater points against abortion than in favour of it. this is merely one
do some research on the effects of rape. many of these women literally cannot get pap smears or even be touched for YEARS after rape. some have chronic bowel and bladder troubles from holding it because they dont want their genitals touched even by themselves. yet you think these women should have to give birth when they cant even stand to be in their own skin let alone have somebody living inside of them. some people only learn the error of their ways through experience. you seem to be one .
"what you dont seem to realise is that pregnancy is a perfectly natural phenomenon"
Strawman argument. So is sex, yet people have accepted that sex is absolutely great and pleasureful... except when it's forced. Pregnancy, on the other hand, is never pleasureful. It takes a larger toll on a woman's body, health and pursuit of happiness than anything else, pro-lifers only embrace it because of the RESULT, the process itself is horrific beyond words. Imagine if it were unwanted AND forced.
gh:ppl havent know for hundreds of years, how old dya think ultrasound is
You think they didn't know anything hundered of yrs ago because they didnt have ultrasounds? They knew exactly what was happening! Look it up.
gh:ask them what an 8wk, 12wk, 24wk fetus looks like and how its aborted, theyll mostly be clueless
So YOU are the only one who know what it looks like? Are you kidding? Its 2009..everyone knows. The age of computers fixed that! It dosent matter what it LOOKS like anyway
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Great accent. Yeah Sarah Palin's a moron
but the problem with abortion, even for rape victims is that technology has told us how human the fetus is. that is to say at 8 weeks its got eyes, toes, fingers, brain, it can feel pain
where's the fetus' right in killing it? what if the fetus is female, where's the women's rights there?
kill the fetus cos of who its rather is (in the case of rape)? hitler had ppl killed because of who their parents are
we arnt killing them because of who their parents are. we are simply protecting women against the violence of forced childbirth. an 8 week old fetus doesnt even have all its necessary organs or any truly functioning brain nor does the vast majority of science believe they can feel pain. half of sperm are female. does that mean they should automatically get rights? i hardly think so
she is not killing them because she hates the child. she is doing it to restore control over her own body which is her right. to deny choice for these women is subjecting them to two rapes. i have talked with rape crisis counselors, rape victims advocates and even rape victims themselves concerning this matter. these are their words not mine. i think i will go with the professionals on this one
firstly you cant conceivably argue that childbirth can be rape, its a baby, not sum pig. yur sick to think that
secondly, you hav to admit, the woman probably wont hate the child, but she's aborting it because she was raped, because she hates the father and the way the child was conceived. yur parents were the opposite of this, yet you and the fetus were once one and the same, innocent human life. why should you be given life but not it? pls answer that question for once
i sure can argue that childbirth is rape if it is FORCED! do you not understand the concept of force? childbirth and pregnancy are sexual in nature and anything that is forced in that area is a sexual violation. i never said i shoud be given life. if my parents had wanted to abort me that would have been their decision, not yours and not the govt. yes she is aborting it to restore what was taken. something very precious to her. the most precious thing she owns, herself
Forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy is perpetuating the rape because it denies her consent in her personal autonomy.
It isn't for you to decide what a victim should feel. Likewise, this isn't about leia, her parents, or anyone you want to make an emotional appeal to.
Why should a rape victim be forced to endure a pregnancy that could possibly result in her death? Who are you to decide who's life and emotional/psychological stability are risked? The woman is alive, and it is her body.
you said it mate. 'it isnt about you'. thats it, its not about the mother to decide she should be allowd to kill an equally innocent baby. who is she to take the life of an innocent child. the baby has those rights too. i thnk because of the distinct human characteristics at 8wks, its a human being as of then, therefor nobody should hav the right to take its life. rape is abominable, but its better for sum1 to giv birth, a natural phenomenon, than for sum1else to be executed
Do not attempt to twist my words. It is not for you to decide what the woman does with her body, as it is her body. It is not your choice a to the level of suffering that should be imposed on her to pacify your sensitivities. When you force a woman to carry a fetus from rape, you are forcing her to risk her life. You are not the one taking the risk, yet you are forcing her to do so.
You are committing what is coined the second rape-- the rape perpetrated by society. It is rape in and of itself, and merely perpetuates the trauma of the initial rape. In short, your insistence that a woman not have consent over her own body (which is what the rapist denied her), in turn makes YOU a rapist.
if believing in forced pregnancy makes me a rapist. then yur believing in abortion makes you a murderer
and forced pregnancy, in the western world certainly, does not risk a woman's life, 16 in 10 000 women die giving birth in the USA, and sum of those by choice. tru it may risk mental health, but doctors can tell if pregnancy will risk woman's life and if so, very rare, she should be allowed to abort, but only if
ghiz8: "if believing in forced pregnancy makes me a rapist, then yur believing in abortion makes you a murderer."
no it doesnt. we are not advocating women abort. we are advocating for choice. you leave no choice. we never even said we thought it was a good thing. not every rape victim would end up aborting but every rape victim WOULD be legally forced to give birth under your govt. she is not advocating murder. she is treating the fetus in regards to the womans bodily sovereignty.
yur not advocating abortion, but yur advocating its ok if feti aborted
im complicit since i agree with forced birth. if you agree with abortion, you are complicit, i believe its ok for women to be forced to giv birth, unless her lifes endangerd, so im a rapist. yu believe its ok for a fetus to be killed, by that same token yur a murderer
choice? what choice has the fetus?
until now yuve made great points, but dont be silly enuff to say im a rapist but yur not a murderer
the fetus doesnt get a choice. it had no right to live inside her to begin with. it isnt truly murder if it is for self defense. removing an uninvited person from your body by lethal means is not murder in the strict legal sense. i agree witht he decision to abort but that doesnt mean abortion will be the only recourse. your position leaves only one option.
i acknowledge abortion, when the mum will die, is ok and not murder. yur opinion the fetus has no right to live inside her. so what? sum of the most brilliant ppl ever such as ghandi, JFK, mother teresa and martin luther king beg to differ. they think it has more right to live in her than she has to kill it, its a very contentious point
sure my opinion leaves only 1 option, so im a rapist, but by yur own definition, yur a killer, as yu think its ok to kill fetus, dont deny it
dont speak for ghandi and others like him. their lives are irrelevant to this discussion. you dont know what their positions on abortion were. and they were not rape pregnancies. if they think they had a right to be inside their mothers against their will, then they are wrong. as for your argument that it is the same as killing a 6 month old to stop myself from being raped, it is NOT the same thing. even if i let the rape happen, the rape wouldnt result in someone LIVING INSIDE of me against
my will like the rape of forced pregnancy would. nor would the rape possibly put my life in danger like childbirth would. nor would the rapist be sucking nutrients out of my body like a fetus would. and as cruel and invasive as forced sex is, it is NO WHERE'S NEAR as invasive as having something growing inside you against your will.
ghandi and co, categoricly stated that they disapproved abortion all circumstances, so yes i do know their positions. and all i was saying that you believe x, so what? these ppl belive y
'sucking nutrients'- boohoo, dunno if yuve heard of it, they call it pregnancy, perfectly natural phenomenon
if i was raped and gave birth i would love my child every bit as much as those of love. sumtimes we just hav to accept our lot in life, make the most of it, so that others get a chance
yes boo hoo. THEY ARE MY BODILY RESOURCES. perfectly natural phenomenon? that doesnt make it good or desirable. and it sure as heck doesnt make it something that can be mandated. lots of things in nature are not desirable. sometimes we have to accept our lot in life? uh not when someone is victimizing us. we have every right to stop it and make our lives better. lots of people had horrible things happen to them and they lived. that doesnt justify putting the people
through those experiences in the first place. you know nothing of what you would feel if you got raped. YOU ADMIT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN RAPED!! i havent either thank god but i was stalked when i was a teen. nothing happened i got away but you bet your butt i would have aborted if he had caught me before he could reach me.
"so what? these people believe Y"
they are opinions. let them follow their own opinions and i will follow mine.
make the most of it? i will make the most of my life by
yur being 'victimised' by a fetus, basically a human being infant from i say 8wks, others say less. you oughnt to be able to stop at the expense of anothers life, regardless of whether they liv within you or not. you make the fetus seem like a vicious bully, i find that disgraceful on yur part
prolifers get attcked since many are pro-dp, but not all
well less than 1% abortions are from rape, and many pro-abort women are mums, yet they had no problem 'nutrient sucking'
strawman. i do nothing of the sort. i accurately describe the situation. it is a foreign object inside of me against my will. i "ought" to be able to decide what happen to my reproductive system. it is not for you to establish what i "ought" to allow happen to me. it isnt an infant. just as an embryo is not a fetus. we are not "pro-abort.' and those pro choice women CHOSE to carry to term. many women i know have become pro choice because they
were the victims of forced pregnancies. there is a reason these women are so passionate about choice. because they have EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE of this topic.
experiental knowledge, well most women do, but not you, or so it would seem by yur anti-maternal writing syle
an 8wk embryo IS a fetus, and from that point it oughtnt to be aborted, unless risking life. its not a foreign object, it still has 23 yur chromosomes. i doubt yur mum referred to you as a foreign object, no difference at all
i can say you oughtnt to kill an infant, well not much difference here, so i can say can kill fetus
it IS a foreign object. it isnt normally there and it has foreign dna. my mother chose to have me. an unwanted fetus is anything but comfortable. nobody wants to have something growing inside them against their will. im not anti-maternal. i am anti-FORCED maternity yes. once again, the infant analogy is weak.
if its a foreign object, then yu were too. it has 23 of yur mums chromosomes, as you did of yur mum. it may hav foreign dna, but it has the same amount of yur dna. given having one british parent is enuf to hav british pasport, its not foreign object
so what yur mum chose to hav yu, are you more important than rapist child
infant analogy aint weak, at 8wks a fetus has fingers, eyes, heartbeat, measurable brain activity, v human traits, at 20wks it can survive on its own
uh yeah i was a foreing object. BUT I WAS A WANTED FOREIGN OBJECT!!!! do you not understand that? it isnt a violation of my being if i am inside her consensually. i never said i am more important than a rapists child. that is a strawman. i simply stated that if the fetus is INSIDE her against her will, she has a right to remove it. it DOESNT MATTER IF IT IS HUMAN!!! there is no right to be inside someone against their will period. end of story. if i dont want someone in me i wont
there is the right to be inside a person if you can't help it, thats what our lot advocate
and yuve contradicted yurself, yur not more important than rapists child, but yur not violating, it is, see by saying yu hav the right it doesnt, yur implying yur more important
since its human its right to be alive beats hers to total freedom of her body. FULL STOP
a strawman argument is when you distort the opponents argument to help your argument sound more appealing. what constitutes if they cant help it? would a schizophrenic man have a right to rape me because he doesnt know what he is doing? if someone was in a coma and they needed me to donate blood to save him, should i be compelled to do so? i wasnt violating BECAUSE I WAS INVITED. the fetus of a rape victim isnt if she is forced to carry it.
well no a schizophrenic wouldnt hav rite to rape you, for one thing his life doesnt depend upon it, unlike a fetus, but if he did rape you he oughtnt to be sent to prison but receive psychiatric treatment
unlike you i dont think the fate of someones life should depend on an invitation
HOLY CRAP!!! i have no problem with giving szhizophrenic people treatment but that doesnt excuse criminal behavior. i totally think he should be punished. so if his life did depend on me should he be able to use my body for himself, like donate a kidney or blood? if he was dangling off a ledge and i thought it too dangerous to go out to try to get him, should i be forced to go out anyway?
if, by helping him, yur risking yur own life you dont hav to help him, but i would be disgusted if you didnt
if helping him meant not risking yur life, then yes you should hav to help him
pregnancy, the vast majority of the time these day, doesnt mean risking a womans life, if it does, then she should be allowed to abort. but in the US only 16 in10 000 women die in pregnancy, sum of them by choice, very noble
what if it wasnt just my life that i was concerned with? what if i was just concerned with hurting myself? i could fall off the edge and live but be paralyzed or suffer brain damage from the fall. alot of things could happen but i could still technically live.
a rape victim IS being physically harmed by using her body to sustain the fetus. she is in danger. birth is not like breakin a nail. it harms a womans body. lets not even get into cesereans. forced childbirth is a physical injury.
duh! of course its not breaking a nail, which hurts too. but she's not at risk of brain damage or paralysis, and seldom in danger of death, when she is, then ok, abortion is her choice
i dont appreciate you saying forced childbirth is physical injury, if thats the case, then so is voluntary childbirth
yes voluntary childbirth is an injury. but it ESPECIALLY is if it is forced. something causing extreme pain and forcing contractions on you IS an injury. not to mention many women have to get episiotomies or c-sections which is MAJOR surgery. and someone being inside of you against your will is injury enough. not all rapes leave physical damage but it is still an assault because it is forced. same with forced childbirth.
its because one is voluntary and one isnt. that isnt hard to understand. birth is traumatic and extremally painful. to have it forced on you is barbaric. i would never let anyone force me to be an incubator and then force childbirth upon my body. i would rather throw myself off a bridge.
it isnt "just" killed. women dont usually make these decisions casually. if i killed myself the fetus would go down with me. you talk about bodily injury. dont even try to argue that c-sections or episiotomies arnt injuries. they are and they can happen to any woman.
I think they are BOTH physical injuries. My sister in law just had her baby and they had to cut down her vagina into her ass so the baby didn't rip it. They had to put in stiches and after having the baby (also before having it) she was constipated and when she finally went to the bathroom it tore open her stitches! She said her boobs were in so much pain before the kid was born but it got unbearable after the kid was born. She said her periods are ferocious now
I would not risk severe pain for death for someone I didn't know and I really don't care if you would be disgusted or not. I wouldn't expect some stranger to risk their physical well being for me!
Gh "but in the US only 16 in10 000 women die in pregnancy, sum of them by choice, very noble"
I would argue that if a woman goes ahead with a pregnancy knowing it will kill her, that does not make her very noble, that makes her very fucking stupid.
i know that already, and i in no way blame a woman for a miscarriage, defs not on cos obese, medication, or stressed
if you bothered reading properly yule notice that i was responding to Companionablels sarcastic comment
being obese, medicated or stressed, does not mean you intend to harm the life of another human being, even within you. and it does not make you reckless or culpable.
miscarriage isnt manslaughter, abortion is murder. i know my stuff. what a dumb comment
i know of women that smoked or took medicines to miscarry or they knew that their weight increased their risk of miscarriage but they didnt care. what then? how would you know if a miscarriage was intentional or not? how would you police something like this.
it is legite. in el salvador if a woman goes into a hospital because she had a miscarraige they actually send in a SWAT team that solely specializes in abortion cases to FORCE her to undergo an invasive vaginal exam to check for any signs that she induced it herself. women can get up to 30 years in prison for having an abortion.
which one? the invasive vaginal exam? how else do you expect to monitor the state of something the size of a grain of rice that lives inside a womans body? and what do you think the punishment for abortion should be? not to mention women can use ACUPUNCTURE to induce miscarriage. so, how do you intend to enforce this?
wow... really good research. good to have you on our side, and its not necessarily about voting democrat (which i am btw) but its about voting for the best possible choice.
OOOPS! Wrong woman....Sorry! However, extemporaneous speaking is not your niche hon. A script would help quite a bit. What worries me is the Nobama, Reed, and Pelosi trifecta in control of the government. Can you say Russia? A single party in control of Congress and the White House is NOT a good thing.
Everything said in this video is the truth! I know, the truth can hurt sometimes.
Don't worry about the Democrats being in control of the government. Now you know how we Democrats have felt for the last eight years not least because Bush and his cronies STOLE the presidency from us and they then did everything to abuse their power.
The country will be in good hands with Obama. He's a good man and truly wants the best for all of us. Relax, chill out, look forward to a brighter future!
Ok, Don't let the hillbilly accent fool you. She's a British citizen who lives in France. She's doing a great job commenting on something she can't vote on at all. So don't be fooled by the act folks ;)
I don't find it interesting at all that you are rude and obviously a mean person as you insult so easily. You avoid thinking as you attempt to "Spin" discussions to suit your liking.
They say the economy is the biggest issue now. It will get worst when big business raises the prices of everything to cover his tax "Big Business". If you don't pay taxes don't expect a tax break.
I like Mr. Obama. I will not be disappointed when (if) he wins.
I did verify that Sarah Palin as Governor ONLY charges the false rape reporters the cost of the kits which are around $1500.00 I will report back with the link to this report because the full explanation wont fit in 350 charactors. Now you can be quiet now that the full story is reported.
Ok Go ahead and quadruple tax on the rich and you will see them all move their companies into other country's and take the jobs away with them. Raise tax on a large corporation and they will pass it right down to the customer. They collect tax they don't pay them. YOU and I will!
Look if you have to put me in a box I would much rather be a Christian then a Republican or Democrat. Throw them all in jail if they break the law. So if I work at Taco Bell then later become president everyone can accuse me for being for "Big Taco" Gesh. Check gas prices were down to 68 bucks a barrel, Will you give Bush credit for bringing prices down as fast as you accuse him of raising?
I did not say that they had to pay their own I said why is the first place they go is the Government? I would think if your broke you would ask family first then ask your church. If your pregnant do you ask Government to buy your pregnancy test? I hate rape more then anyone. I have 2 teenage daughters and a wife. My guess is that some rape cases turnout to be made up and the government loses income from those cases. This kit must cost a fortune because theydon't charge for an investigation.
Police are paid for by the government. Police are there to stop and solve crimes. Crime investigation is paid for by the government. Rape is a CRIME. Therefore it was, in all places except Wasilla, paid for by the government.
You just don't get it, do you? RAPE IS AGAINST THE LAW! And law enforcement IS paid for by the government
But I don't want to converse with you any more because you are the most UN Christian, unfeeling person I have ever come across.
I see me and Sarah are against abortion and so we are both un-Christian?..The term Christian means Christ-Like so when you can prove that Jesus wants us to brutally murder his creation and keep in mind just because rape is envolved that innocent child is still 100 percent YOUR CHILD. Killing your children IS-UN Christian. I think you need to remove the cross from your neck and start reading the Bible. Capitalism over Socialism thats what were voting on Nov 4th
You can always spot a liberal because they can't make a point without including a personal insult. It doesn't require brainwashing to look up in the dictionary the meaning of the words Socialism and Communism.
Personal insult? Excuse me, but not only did you personally insult me with your heartless comment about women having to pay for their own forensic tests after being violently raped but you insulted all women-kind.
If Biden was a top of the ticket it would make more sense. Republicans believe "self accountability" Democrats think Government is responsible for their success. Socialism is one step closer to Obama's Goal Communism. Income redistribution is Socialism...I like capitalism.
Yes, I can see you are being brainwashed! Think for YOURSELF, stop all this communism nonsense that they are feeding you.
So what if the very richest have to pay an extra 3% tax, that is not socialism. The fact is that things need to CHANGE and the Democrats will make that change.
Obama's only experience is being an attorney for ACCORN. Thats right he knew that his goal was to be president and the only way he could win is by getting Federal Funds for ACCORN... 34 million to be exact and while he kept the support up then they would support him NOW
Congratulations! You are exactly where the Republicans want you to be....maybe where you have been the last eight years..BRAINWASHED and with your mind off the important issues.
The country is in a mess and McCain has voted for 9O% of all Bush's policies to get us into this mess.
Obama's experience has been helping people. McCain's experience has been backing Bush and supporting a war over oil.
And Biden has a zillion times more experience than Sarah Palin.
Economy Bush's fault? DotCom bubble in 01 allowed by Clinton. 9/11 Terrorist allowed to plot/plan in USA under Clinton. Katrina Louisana Dems ran the state for 40 years never fixed their levys. Housing Bubble popped has been talked about since 1970 Yes all occured while Bush was president but not his fault. What happened under Clinton Black Hawk thats all..oh and gays in military. Had these disaters happened 1 year earlier BILL would be blammed.
Yes, the economy IS Bush's fault. He is still in the pockets of Exon and all the oil companies and has spent BILLIONS on a false war. Several Republican senators had SHARES in Exon and made a fortune. Shedding blood for oil and borrowing billions from China.
Wake up! Just because your parents voted Republican doesn't mean you have to. CHANGE. Vote Obama! How much more proof do you need?
"Obama's only experience is being an attorney for ACCORN. Thats right he knew that his goal was to be president and the only way he could win is by getting Federal Funds for ACCORN.. 34 million to be exact and while he kept the support up then they would support him NOW"
You're full of shit, and you can't even spell. It's ACORN. "The only way he could win"?! What utter rubbish. The vast majority of Obama supporters have never benefited from ACORN; indeed, most have never HEARD of it. YOU FAIL.
Womens rights? Abortion? Obama is a good Christian Man? Ask this question...What would Jesus do? Dont abort the innocent child Abort the rapest he is guilty not the child. Jesus wouldnt kill the baby so please dont say Obama is a good christian man. Remember "Thou shall not kill" Also Alaska has 10 men to every 1 woman that is why rape is high there. Why does everyone think government should pay for everything? Rape Kit??? Maybe Government should pay for my cab if I get drunk?
Rape is a CRIME. It is the ONLY crime with an investigation not paid for by the state. So you justify rape, I see , and you want to protect the rapist by giving him an excuse that he is a man. Getting drunk is your CHOICE. Being violently raped is NOT a choice any woman would make. Jesus would be shocked by your answer! Go say a prayer and ask for forgiveness for what you said.
"What would Jesus do? Dont abort the innocent child Abort the rapest he is guilty not the child. Jesus wouldnt kill the baby so please dont say Obama is a good christian man. Remember 'Thou shall not kill'"
Jesus never said "thou shalt not kill"; that was in the Old Testament where, despite that commandment, Yahweh (supposedly) often ordered people to kill innocent children and infants. Look at all the incidents in Deuteronomy where Yahweh ordered the Israelites to kill men, women and children.
Mightyprods...Jesus never said to go to Cesar (Government) for anything other then to pay taxes. You need help in anyway he would send you to the Elders of the church. Where you could get money if needed and most important PRAYER which is far more important for a full recovery.
Furthermore, the ONLY Biblical mention of punishment for killing a fetus is in Exodus 21: "If men strive (fight), and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her (she miscarries), and yet no mischief follow (she survives): he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."
However, if she dies, the man who fatally injured her must be put to death. So the Bible clearly DOESN'T consider abortion to be murder.
Sarah Palin´s only good reasons are to feed her ego! She lies! She cannot be trusted at all. She lies with a smile.
See her television interviews for yourself, oh ignorant one! She believes that even in the case of rape or incest a woman should not abort. What "experience" does Sarah Palin have? Being a hockey mom? Wow, like she could really run a country.
Only the rich or the really stupid will be voting for McCain/Palin.
This has been flagged as spam show
To all the pro-life and pro-choice, watch this award winning documentary and see where you stand at the end.
Look up 180 movie on youtube or 180movie.com
standingontruth1 4 months ago in playlist Abortion rights
Right on, sister.
xubarze 1 year ago
Comment removed
saharacloud 1 year ago
man she is hot and right for blonde girl... i wud just vote for whoever says :P
tigersoup 1 year ago
Gh-pregnancy/childbirth is a massive physiological change & leaves the body traumatised for some time afterwards & some things are permanently changed.
Itd be beyond ridiculous if you try to pretend otherwise.
Physical trauma aside, Im more concerned with the distress & mental trauma of telling a rape victim she has to continue with a resulting pregnancy. Forced sex, forced pregnancy- just as evil as eachother. Lets have a bit of compassion for the victim instead of boohooing over an embryo.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 10
vcmparlin
if ppl with yur degree of understanding of human sacrifice are counseillors or whatever, well thats downright disturbing
yu think a womans 'fucking stupid' for dying for her children?? thats either really cynical, or sadistic
of course pregnangy leaves the body traumatised, understood. im compassionate to rape victims, i think equally welfare and counseilling infrastructure need to be financially propped up
but as of 8wks thats no longer an embryo, its a lil person
ghiz8 2 years ago
Gh - lets stop the dramatics please - abortion is not 'human sacrifice'. Nor am I being sadistic or cynical. Im a realist.
Yes a woman is fucking stupid for continuing with a pregnancy that she knows will kill her, in my opinion. What on earth is gained in this scenario?
At 8 weeks an embryo actually becomes a foetus, not a 'lil person'. We become a 'lil person' upon birth.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 4
vcmparlin
duh it becomes a fetus at 8wks, the thing is yuve worded it slightly differently this whole discussion 'abortion kills embryos', well it kills feti too, and its more so that that bothers me
but what is open to interpretation is the degree of humanity of a fetus, sum would say its rapidly developing human traits make it a lil person
and a woman choosing to hav her conceived baby even if she'll die, real stupid huh? maybe yur mum wouldnt hav, but most caring mums would
ghiz8 2 years ago
at least have the decency to call childbirth an injury for crips sake. dont act like forcing a woman to carry to term isnt physically damaging. just admit to you that that physical damage is worth it to you. admit that you feel revictimizing women is worth it for the life of the fetus. dont pretend like you arnt treating the woman like a piece of property.
leiapeison 2 years ago
fair enough, i call it injury, psychological and physical. i know ppl that hav suffered from prenatal depression and that was completely voluntary pregnancy
ghiz8 2 years ago
ghz:woman choosing to hav her conceived baby even if she'll die, real stupid huh?
Are you kidding? No, most moms would NOT prefer to have a baby & die doing it! Do you have ANY idea how disturbed that thinking is? Its like being obsessed with aliens from outer space! You have irrationally connected to something that dosen't exsist in the realm of everything that is an integral part of our "human beingness," and you see nothing worng with it!
sueezee 2 years ago
Gh "duh it becomes a fetus at 8wks, the thing is yuve worded it slightly differently this whole discussion 'abortion kills embryos', well it kills feti too"
Never mind your 'duh', it was ME who pointed out an embryo becomes a fetus at 8 weeks, not you. And I use the word embryo as that is the stage when most abortions are done by & there is only room for 500 characters a post, I cant keep putting 'an embryo & less commonly a foetus' can I?
Its NOT a 'lil person' & its pathetic term to use.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 2
Gh "a woman choosing to hav her conceived baby even if she'll die, real stupid huh? maybe yur mum wouldnt hav, but most caring mums would"
What a complete load of shit. If you surveyed 100 women in the street & asked them if they would go ahead with a pregnancy knowing it would kill them, bet the massive majority would say no & look at you as though youre crazy.
How's it 'loving' to leave a baby motherless, assuming it survives? Im sticking with my original opinion on that- fucking stupid.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
vcmparlin
im glad you know the difference. what im getting at is that ive been talking about feti (that is to say gestated beyond 8wks), since before then im not adamantly opposed to abortion. however for much of this discussion you've chosen to refer to them as embryos, which downplays things and is untrue
ghiz8 2 years ago
Gh - Whatever. I am not a mindreader - I dont know what you are or arent adamantly opposed to unless you tell me.
vmcparlin 2 years ago
An most abortions are done between 1 - 9 weeks so embryo is the best term to use.
vmcparlin 2 years ago
vcmparlin
well those abortion carried out before 8wks, so those you state are the vast majority, do not particularly bother me. a mindreader you may not be, but i hav continuously talked about the 8wk point, making it rather clear thats the point from which i disapprove of abortion. however you hav challenged my arguments about feti beyond 8wks, so throughout all of our discussion we've pretty much been talking about feti, not embryos. calling these embryos, that does downplay
ghiz8 2 years ago
Gh-a mindreader you may not be, but i continuously talked about the 8wk point, making it clear thats the point from which i disapprove of abortion"
Dont flatter yourself that I trawl through every post you make. Why 8 weeks? Whys that the magic cut-off point?
"youv challenged me about feti so throughout our discussion we've been talking about feti not embryos. calling these embryos does downplay"
Bollocks, youre just trying to upgrade an embryo to a baby to further emotionalize. Fail.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
vcmparlin
lol, im not flattering myself, but i look at yurs, to make sure im clear as to what yur talking about. why 8wks? thats when an embryo becomes a fetus, thats also the time by which it has formed fingers, toes, eyes, brain activity and a heartbeat. THAT IS NOT EMOTIONALISING, just PURE FACT.
last sentence? hows that so, i havent spoken of pre8wks, so ive only spoken of feti, not embryos, let alone making embryos seem like infants. yur clutching at straws
ghiz8 2 years ago
Gh - go ahead and tell yourself that if it makes you feel better lol.
Youve been posting for ages, suddenly you leave a couple of posts mentioning 8 weeks and we're all supposed to automatically think of you as only talking about a foetus and only posting fact? I havent that short a memory.
Regardless of whether it has fingers or eyes or whatever, a womans rights come first. Fact.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 3
vcmparlin
for as long as ive been commenting, ive mentioned 8wks, at least the characteristics of an 8wk fetus. making it abundantly clear that as of that point i oppose abortion. i havent commented on abortions b4 this point, because i neither approve nor disapprove
whose rights come first? thats contentious, and this demonstrates yur complete inability to examine the other side of this. ghandi, JFK, martin luther king and mother teresa would disagree with you on that
ghiz8 2 years ago
gh "whose rights come first? ... ghandi, JFK, martin luther king & mother teresa would disagree with you on that"
The womans of course! Because she's the only actual person-with rights. Unlike you Ive examined all sides, thats why I concluded prochoice is best.
You've been personally communicating with the dead? Wow!
All of these people were pro-life because of their religious beliefs, so that discounts them automatically as far as Im concerned.
The majority of people are pro-choice.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 3
vcmparlin
those brilliant ppl, who b/w them saved the world, brought about the ultimate change in rights of the oppressed and won nobel peace prizes, cannot be discounted for their religions. their beliefs are at forefront of moral thinking, when you do better than them you can say their beliefs dont count
besides they were their various religions becos they believed what they did
ghiz8 2 years ago
gh:since before then im not adamantly opposed to abortion. however for much of this discussion you've chosen to refer to them as embryos, which downplays things and is untrue We refer to them as embryos, because 97% of all abortion are done in the embryonic stage. YOU prefer not to call them embryos because it dosen't have the shock effects of the word "baby", and its NEVER a baby. Now, who speaks the untruths?
sueezee 2 years ago 8
vm:How's it 'loving' to leave a baby motherless Its "loving" simply because the baby breathed! ghiz, could then kick back in her Lazyboy, blind to anything the child will go through, and be completely happy with the idea that it took in oxygen. PERIOD!
Wow!
sueezee 2 years ago 5
Suze "vm:How's it 'loving' to leave a baby motherless?
Its "loving" simply because the baby breathed! ghiz, could then kick back in her Lazyboy, blind to anything the child will go through, and be completely happy with the idea that it took in oxygen. PERIOD!"
Surely not Sueezee? But that would be utterly BARBARIC!!! And completely unrealistic and naive! Not to mention pious and sheer, blind stupidity!
vmcparlin 2 years ago
ghiz:but as of 8wks thats no longer an embryo, its a lil person A "lil person"? Oh my! It's not ANY size person, thats why abortion is legal. Your thiking it is a person, big or "lil", dosen't matter.
sueezee 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
i respect most things you say, but you cant deny yur pro-abortion.thinking its ok for ppl to be executed makes one pro death penalty. you think its ok for feti to be aborted, yur pro abortion. im not denying yur prochoice but yur still pro abortion
btw, i, or those better than me, will make a difference, we'll make ppl know what a fetus is, and how its aborted, this will bring about anti-abortion legislation, ppl just dunno. i know sum v persuasive prolife ppl going into politix
ghiz8 2 years ago
ghiz: we'll make ppl know what a fetus is, Theyve known that for hundreds of years. Its why the Constitution uses the word human being for born people & why fetal rights aree excluded?
ghi:and how its aborted Everyone these days knws how a fetus is abortied. Did you think YOU were special in knowing, and no one else does? get over yourself.
ghiz: ppl just dunno
Oh please!! Who dosen't know ghiz? WHO? You need to get out more!
sueezee 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
look i respect yur view, yuve womens best interests at heart
but from my pov, an 8wk fetus is a human being, it has characteristics eyes, fingers, brain activity, heartbeat. thats human enuff for me. so abortions only ok, if mums life in danger. it shouldnt be killed for anyother reason
of course i interfere, i feel morally bound like you'd if infant next door was being killed
ghiz8 2 years ago
ghiz:but from my pov, an 8wk fetus is a human being, it has characteristics eyes, fingers, brain activity, heartbeat Since when is YOUR pov what we go by? Why dont you know that eyes & fingers have NOTHING to do with the simple LEGAL term for a person with rights? And, how can an eye define a "oerson"?
sueezee 2 years ago 3
suezee
lol, ive missed yur witty banter luv. what a punce you are, ppl havent know for hundreds of years, how old dya think ultrasound is?? only recently hav we come to find out, also NO, if you go about the streets of yur USA (i admit that is the most ignorant western country in the world per capita, so not the best example) and ask them what an 8wk, 12wk, 24wk fetus looks like and how its aborted, theyll mostly be clueless
Constitution, yur constitution allows ppl to shoot each other too
ghiz8 2 years ago
dont talk to us about ignorant. talkt about pot calling the kettle black. the pics you have are fake. a fetus is the size of a kidney bean nothing like the pics you prolifers like to throw out. the constitution allow people to shoot in self defense. which is why we allow abortion too.
leiapeison 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
did i ever mention size?? i mention other DEFINED characteristic, eg fingers, eyes, heartbeat
i acknowledge an 8wk fetus weighs about 8grams. but it still has v human characteristics, which bothers me. and size, well compare a newborn to a teenager, bit of a difference huh? yet its still wrong to kill either
in yur lovely USA, if a black person steps over the threshold, yuve got the right to shoot him, great innit? in our better governed countries it has to be reasonable
ghiz8 2 years ago
big differance between a newborn and an almost microscopic spot. i doubt if i were to set a woman and a testtube embryo side by side and somebody said choose one that most people would choose the embryo. what does being black have to do with this? i care about suffering and those who know what hurt is. that is what truly counts.
leiapeison 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
na-ah-ahhh
i never said you had to choose between the lives of either. they both hav the right to live, in fact the born even more so (ie a woman should be allowed to abort if birth will kill her). but the fetus shouldnt be killed so the woman can avoid giving birth
what does being black hav to do with this, no much at all. but when it comes to selfdefence law, it seems african american ppl are the victims of this law considerably more than caucasians
ghiz8 2 years ago
i said if you had a choice between pulling the plug on a comatose person or subjecting a woman to a sexual violation which would you choose? that was the question. i am done. your comparisons prove you know nothing of the vastness of trauma. i hope for your sake that your ignorance doesnt come to bite you in the butt someday.
leiapeison 2 years ago 6
leiapeison
good job addressing what i just said
ghiz8 2 years ago
i did address it. in the analogy i gave you, it wasnt a matter of death for the woman. you had the choice of either pulling the plug on the man or sentencing the woman to rape. it is outrageous that you consider having a penis inside you against your will is a sexual violation but you dont consider having someone living inside you agianst your will to be one. seriously now. if you believe that victimizing the woman is necessary for the fetus than just say so. but dont pretend like you anrt
leiapeison 2 years ago 6
robbing the woman of her humanity in the process. if that is worth it to you than fine. but saying the things you have been saying just makes you look immature and ignorant.
leiapeison 2 years ago 6
Comment removed
ghiz8 2 years ago
ghz:. furthermore that 'someone' inside you is a BABY, yur DNA, your son or daughter, and it cant help it Geez, you have GOT to understand that your thinking is rationally "OFF", and most normal people don tthink like you do! Your childish response in using words like BABY, son/daughter, & inside you, are sentimentalities that ONLY work for people who CANT use their heads .
gh: what if the fetus is female, wheres the womens rites there? fetuses have no rights. Pheeeew!!
sueezee 2 years ago 5
suezee
'fetuses hav no rights'- another brilliant piece of dogmatic rhetoric from the proabortion brigade
once upon a time, african american ppl had no rights, once upon a time aborigines had no rights, once upon a time women had no rights, the world is an ever changing thing, one day feti will hav rights too, we'll regret what we've done to them
i suppose ghandi's thinking was rationally OFF too?
ghiz8 2 years ago
gh:african american ppl had no rights So what? When they were given the name of human biengs, they got them, just like a fetus when born. Get off the slavery crap,,you cant win w/that.
gh:we'll regret what we've done to them No, only you irrational people will
gh:one day feti will hav rights & one day I'll be a super model!
sueezee 2 years ago
suezee
i can giv you lists of prominent names (ft politicians, doctors, human rights campaigners, etc) that disagree with abortion to a greater degree than i do. im not saying ppl that are prochoice are nutters, but neither are those that are prolife
that 'slavery crap', along with what i wrote about women, is merely indicative of society's previous mistakes, ie current laws arent necessarily moral or right (in any country)
'twould be nice if you came up with sumthing substantial
ghiz8 2 years ago
gh:i can giv you lists of prominent names (ft politicians, doctors, human rights campaigners, etc) that disagree with abortion I can also give you a recipe for spaghetti, and it will be as valid as what you said.
gh:that 'slavery crapis merely indicative of society's previous mistakes There are no errors in abortion. gh:'twould be nice if you came up with sumthing substantial ya right, after you tell ME there are people against abortion & you talk of slavery? Oh please!
sueezee 2 years ago
suezee
yur stumped ha luv? a list of names that disagree with abortion is just as valid as a list that agrees, or in yur opinion a recipe
'there are no errors in abortion', you say so, others dont. once upon a time some ppl said slavery was brilliant, look how things hav changed
slavery is not only example, 200yr ago, ppl with epilepsy were strapped down with a spoon in their mouth, in a mental institution, that's wrong
point is just becos sumthings legal, its not moral, eg slavery
ghiz8 2 years ago
ghz:slavery Only ignorant people with NOTHING else to say, use the human BEINGS of slavery as a comparision. Its why abortion is legal...it dosent matter.loll get a REAL debate going with somehthing besides hunder yr old billshit. Oh wait...you CAN'T!! LOL
sueezee 2 years ago 3
By the way I'm done with you... I wont respond again. Your "slavery" crap is boring & redundent. I guess you have NOTHING else... but stay stupid. we prefer you like that!
PRO-ROE PRO-WOMAN PRO-CHOICE FOREVER, DARLING
sueezee 2 years ago 5
brilliant
suezee just contradicted herself, if she's pro-roe then she's prolife. jane roe (or norma mccorvey, her legal name) has been adamantly prolife for the past 15yrs
btw that case was a travesty of justice, reflective of the inferior US justice system
ghiz8 2 years ago
gh:suezee just contradicted herself hahahha, WHO in the hell are you talking to?????
gh:if she's pro-roe then she's prolife. jane roe
hahahahhaha. God, I LIVE to confront dumbasses! It makes my day!
"Roe" is known a Supreme Court decision ...........NOT a person!!!!!
gh:that case was a travesty of justice liar. Too bad you have NOTHING valid to fight abortion with. NOTHING!
sueezee 2 years ago 2
gh:(or norma mccorvey, her legal name)
You dont have to teach me ANYTHING regarding abortion! She lied about being raped in her court case,gave birth to the baby, put it up for adoption. Said she was raped again, married a man who abused her, divorcedhim, has ANOTHER baby that she GAVE to relatives. She was a drug addict, alcoholic, played w/ lesbianism.Later gave up another child.She was a carnival freak show barker, broke, & depressed.Shes a nutcase. You people have NOTHING, do you?
sueezee 2 years ago 2
yur silence is truly touching
dw i couldnt resist either
ghiz8 2 years ago
no she supports the legal case of roe vs wade not norma mccorvey herself. and she only became anti choice due to religion. i would rather cut my stomach open than be compelled to be pregnant against my will.
leiapeison 2 years ago
ghz:african american ppl had no rights YES!! Now your learning, dipshit!!!!! Afircans were PEOPLE after they got rights. Fetuses cant do that!
sueezee 2 years ago 2
suezee
apparently yur not. africans were always people, they only got rights as people more recently though. same will happen with feti. they dont hav rights, but things will change
what ive been alluding to all along is that just because somethings legal, it doesnt make it moral, like abortion now, or slavery or womens rights once upon a time
there are more and greater points against abortion than in favour of it. this is merely one
ghiz8 2 years ago
do some research on the effects of rape. many of these women literally cannot get pap smears or even be touched for YEARS after rape. some have chronic bowel and bladder troubles from holding it because they dont want their genitals touched even by themselves. yet you think these women should have to give birth when they cant even stand to be in their own skin let alone have somebody living inside of them. some people only learn the error of their ways through experience. you seem to be one .
leiapeison 2 years ago
"what you dont seem to realise is that pregnancy is a perfectly natural phenomenon"
Strawman argument. So is sex, yet people have accepted that sex is absolutely great and pleasureful... except when it's forced. Pregnancy, on the other hand, is never pleasureful. It takes a larger toll on a woman's body, health and pursuit of happiness than anything else, pro-lifers only embrace it because of the RESULT, the process itself is horrific beyond words. Imagine if it were unwanted AND forced.
Headhunter004 2 years ago 4
gh:ppl havent know for hundreds of years, how old dya think ultrasound is
You think they didn't know anything hundered of yrs ago because they didnt have ultrasounds? They knew exactly what was happening! Look it up.
gh:ask them what an 8wk, 12wk, 24wk fetus looks like and how its aborted, theyll mostly be clueless
So YOU are the only one who know what it looks like? Are you kidding? Its 2009..everyone knows. The age of computers fixed that! It dosent matter what it LOOKS like anyway
sueezee 2 years ago 7
Comment removed
ghiz8 2 years ago
well well what do ya know?
I VOTED AND WE WON!!!
HOW KOOL IS THAT?
i'm odd pay no mind to me! tehe
waitnotthere 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Great accent. Yeah Sarah Palin's a moron
but the problem with abortion, even for rape victims is that technology has told us how human the fetus is. that is to say at 8 weeks its got eyes, toes, fingers, brain, it can feel pain
where's the fetus' right in killing it? what if the fetus is female, where's the women's rights there?
kill the fetus cos of who its rather is (in the case of rape)? hitler had ppl killed because of who their parents are
ghiz8 3 years ago
we arnt killing them because of who their parents are. we are simply protecting women against the violence of forced childbirth. an 8 week old fetus doesnt even have all its necessary organs or any truly functioning brain nor does the vast majority of science believe they can feel pain. half of sperm are female. does that mean they should automatically get rights? i hardly think so
leiapeison 3 years ago
leiapeison
we are so killing them becos of who their parents are. yur parent loved each other, yur mum lovd yur dad, they were perfctly happy to hav ya
but a raped woman does not love her assailnt, she hates him, so their child is killed? where's the justis for the kid??
childbirth, i hate to say if but women are designed to giv birth, there's less chance of them dying in birth, than flying british airways
and ultrasound show human characteristics, fingers, brain, cowring in ultrasnd
ghiz8 3 years ago
she is not killing them because she hates the child. she is doing it to restore control over her own body which is her right. to deny choice for these women is subjecting them to two rapes. i have talked with rape crisis counselors, rape victims advocates and even rape victims themselves concerning this matter. these are their words not mine. i think i will go with the professionals on this one
leiapeison 3 years ago
leiapeison
firstly you cant conceivably argue that childbirth can be rape, its a baby, not sum pig. yur sick to think that
secondly, you hav to admit, the woman probably wont hate the child, but she's aborting it because she was raped, because she hates the father and the way the child was conceived. yur parents were the opposite of this, yet you and the fetus were once one and the same, innocent human life. why should you be given life but not it? pls answer that question for once
ghiz8 3 years ago
i sure can argue that childbirth is rape if it is FORCED! do you not understand the concept of force? childbirth and pregnancy are sexual in nature and anything that is forced in that area is a sexual violation. i never said i shoud be given life. if my parents had wanted to abort me that would have been their decision, not yours and not the govt. yes she is aborting it to restore what was taken. something very precious to her. the most precious thing she owns, herself
leiapeison 3 years ago
Forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy is perpetuating the rape because it denies her consent in her personal autonomy.
It isn't for you to decide what a victim should feel. Likewise, this isn't about leia, her parents, or anyone you want to make an emotional appeal to.
Why should a rape victim be forced to endure a pregnancy that could possibly result in her death? Who are you to decide who's life and emotional/psychological stability are risked? The woman is alive, and it is her body.
CompanionableIlls 3 years ago 9
Companionablellls
you said it mate. 'it isnt about you'. thats it, its not about the mother to decide she should be allowd to kill an equally innocent baby. who is she to take the life of an innocent child. the baby has those rights too. i thnk because of the distinct human characteristics at 8wks, its a human being as of then, therefor nobody should hav the right to take its life. rape is abominable, but its better for sum1 to giv birth, a natural phenomenon, than for sum1else to be executed
ghiz8 3 years ago
Do not attempt to twist my words. It is not for you to decide what the woman does with her body, as it is her body. It is not your choice a to the level of suffering that should be imposed on her to pacify your sensitivities. When you force a woman to carry a fetus from rape, you are forcing her to risk her life. You are not the one taking the risk, yet you are forcing her to do so.
CompanionableIlls 3 years ago 4
You are committing what is coined the second rape-- the rape perpetrated by society. It is rape in and of itself, and merely perpetuates the trauma of the initial rape. In short, your insistence that a woman not have consent over her own body (which is what the rapist denied her), in turn makes YOU a rapist.
CompanionableIlls 3 years ago 4
Companionablells
if believing in forced pregnancy makes me a rapist. then yur believing in abortion makes you a murderer
and forced pregnancy, in the western world certainly, does not risk a woman's life, 16 in 10 000 women die giving birth in the USA, and sum of those by choice. tru it may risk mental health, but doctors can tell if pregnancy will risk woman's life and if so, very rare, she should be allowed to abort, but only if
ghiz8 3 years ago
ghiz8: "if believing in forced pregnancy makes me a rapist, then yur believing in abortion makes you a murderer."
no it doesnt. we are not advocating women abort. we are advocating for choice. you leave no choice. we never even said we thought it was a good thing. not every rape victim would end up aborting but every rape victim WOULD be legally forced to give birth under your govt. she is not advocating murder. she is treating the fetus in regards to the womans bodily sovereignty.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
yur not advocating abortion, but yur advocating its ok if feti aborted
im complicit since i agree with forced birth. if you agree with abortion, you are complicit, i believe its ok for women to be forced to giv birth, unless her lifes endangerd, so im a rapist. yu believe its ok for a fetus to be killed, by that same token yur a murderer
choice? what choice has the fetus?
until now yuve made great points, but dont be silly enuff to say im a rapist but yur not a murderer
ghiz8 2 years ago
the fetus doesnt get a choice. it had no right to live inside her to begin with. it isnt truly murder if it is for self defense. removing an uninvited person from your body by lethal means is not murder in the strict legal sense. i agree witht he decision to abort but that doesnt mean abortion will be the only recourse. your position leaves only one option.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
i acknowledge abortion, when the mum will die, is ok and not murder. yur opinion the fetus has no right to live inside her. so what? sum of the most brilliant ppl ever such as ghandi, JFK, mother teresa and martin luther king beg to differ. they think it has more right to live in her than she has to kill it, its a very contentious point
sure my opinion leaves only 1 option, so im a rapist, but by yur own definition, yur a killer, as yu think its ok to kill fetus, dont deny it
ghiz8 2 years ago
dont speak for ghandi and others like him. their lives are irrelevant to this discussion. you dont know what their positions on abortion were. and they were not rape pregnancies. if they think they had a right to be inside their mothers against their will, then they are wrong. as for your argument that it is the same as killing a 6 month old to stop myself from being raped, it is NOT the same thing. even if i let the rape happen, the rape wouldnt result in someone LIVING INSIDE of me against
leiapeison 2 years ago
my will like the rape of forced pregnancy would. nor would the rape possibly put my life in danger like childbirth would. nor would the rapist be sucking nutrients out of my body like a fetus would. and as cruel and invasive as forced sex is, it is NO WHERE'S NEAR as invasive as having something growing inside you against your will.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
ghandi and co, categoricly stated that they disapproved abortion all circumstances, so yes i do know their positions. and all i was saying that you believe x, so what? these ppl belive y
'sucking nutrients'- boohoo, dunno if yuve heard of it, they call it pregnancy, perfectly natural phenomenon
if i was raped and gave birth i would love my child every bit as much as those of love. sumtimes we just hav to accept our lot in life, make the most of it, so that others get a chance
ghiz8 2 years ago
"sucking nutrients-boohoo"
yes boo hoo. THEY ARE MY BODILY RESOURCES. perfectly natural phenomenon? that doesnt make it good or desirable. and it sure as heck doesnt make it something that can be mandated. lots of things in nature are not desirable. sometimes we have to accept our lot in life? uh not when someone is victimizing us. we have every right to stop it and make our lives better. lots of people had horrible things happen to them and they lived. that doesnt justify putting the people
leiapeison 2 years ago
through those experiences in the first place. you know nothing of what you would feel if you got raped. YOU ADMIT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN RAPED!! i havent either thank god but i was stalked when i was a teen. nothing happened i got away but you bet your butt i would have aborted if he had caught me before he could reach me.
"so what? these people believe Y"
they are opinions. let them follow their own opinions and i will follow mine.
make the most of it? i will make the most of my life by
leiapeison 2 years ago
protecting my body from harmful use. it doesnt get anymore degrading then having ones body occupied against ones will.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
yur being 'victimised' by a fetus, basically a human being infant from i say 8wks, others say less. you oughnt to be able to stop at the expense of anothers life, regardless of whether they liv within you or not. you make the fetus seem like a vicious bully, i find that disgraceful on yur part
prolifers get attcked since many are pro-dp, but not all
well less than 1% abortions are from rape, and many pro-abort women are mums, yet they had no problem 'nutrient sucking'
ghiz8 2 years ago
'you make the fetus seem like a vicous bully"
strawman. i do nothing of the sort. i accurately describe the situation. it is a foreign object inside of me against my will. i "ought" to be able to decide what happen to my reproductive system. it is not for you to establish what i "ought" to allow happen to me. it isnt an infant. just as an embryo is not a fetus. we are not "pro-abort.' and those pro choice women CHOSE to carry to term. many women i know have become pro choice because they
leiapeison 2 years ago
were the victims of forced pregnancies. there is a reason these women are so passionate about choice. because they have EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE of this topic.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
experiental knowledge, well most women do, but not you, or so it would seem by yur anti-maternal writing syle
an 8wk embryo IS a fetus, and from that point it oughtnt to be aborted, unless risking life. its not a foreign object, it still has 23 yur chromosomes. i doubt yur mum referred to you as a foreign object, no difference at all
i can say you oughtnt to kill an infant, well not much difference here, so i can say can kill fetus
forgiv me for pro-abort(ion), i ran out
ghiz8 2 years ago
it IS a foreign object. it isnt normally there and it has foreign dna. my mother chose to have me. an unwanted fetus is anything but comfortable. nobody wants to have something growing inside them against their will. im not anti-maternal. i am anti-FORCED maternity yes. once again, the infant analogy is weak.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
if its a foreign object, then yu were too. it has 23 of yur mums chromosomes, as you did of yur mum. it may hav foreign dna, but it has the same amount of yur dna. given having one british parent is enuf to hav british pasport, its not foreign object
so what yur mum chose to hav yu, are you more important than rapist child
infant analogy aint weak, at 8wks a fetus has fingers, eyes, heartbeat, measurable brain activity, v human traits, at 20wks it can survive on its own
ghiz8 2 years ago
uh yeah i was a foreing object. BUT I WAS A WANTED FOREIGN OBJECT!!!! do you not understand that? it isnt a violation of my being if i am inside her consensually. i never said i am more important than a rapists child. that is a strawman. i simply stated that if the fetus is INSIDE her against her will, she has a right to remove it. it DOESNT MATTER IF IT IS HUMAN!!! there is no right to be inside someone against their will period. end of story. if i dont want someone in me i wont
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
there is the right to be inside a person if you can't help it, thats what our lot advocate
and yuve contradicted yurself, yur not more important than rapists child, but yur not violating, it is, see by saying yu hav the right it doesnt, yur implying yur more important
since its human its right to be alive beats hers to total freedom of her body. FULL STOP
and wtf is strawman?
ghiz8 2 years ago
a strawman argument is when you distort the opponents argument to help your argument sound more appealing. what constitutes if they cant help it? would a schizophrenic man have a right to rape me because he doesnt know what he is doing? if someone was in a coma and they needed me to donate blood to save him, should i be compelled to do so? i wasnt violating BECAUSE I WAS INVITED. the fetus of a rape victim isnt if she is forced to carry it.
leiapeison 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
well no a schizophrenic wouldnt hav rite to rape you, for one thing his life doesnt depend upon it, unlike a fetus, but if he did rape you he oughtnt to be sent to prison but receive psychiatric treatment
unlike you i dont think the fate of someones life should depend on an invitation
ghiz8 2 years ago
HOLY CRAP!!! i have no problem with giving szhizophrenic people treatment but that doesnt excuse criminal behavior. i totally think he should be punished. so if his life did depend on me should he be able to use my body for himself, like donate a kidney or blood? if he was dangling off a ledge and i thought it too dangerous to go out to try to get him, should i be forced to go out anyway?
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
if, by helping him, yur risking yur own life you dont hav to help him, but i would be disgusted if you didnt
if helping him meant not risking yur life, then yes you should hav to help him
pregnancy, the vast majority of the time these day, doesnt mean risking a womans life, if it does, then she should be allowed to abort. but in the US only 16 in10 000 women die in pregnancy, sum of them by choice, very noble
ghiz8 2 years ago
what if it wasnt just my life that i was concerned with? what if i was just concerned with hurting myself? i could fall off the edge and live but be paralyzed or suffer brain damage from the fall. alot of things could happen but i could still technically live.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
if you could fall off the cliff and suffer brain damage, or be paralysed, then no you dont have to help. but id still be disgusted if you didnt help
ghiz8 2 years ago
a rape victim IS being physically harmed by using her body to sustain the fetus. she is in danger. birth is not like breakin a nail. it harms a womans body. lets not even get into cesereans. forced childbirth is a physical injury.
leiapeison 2 years ago
leiapeison
duh! of course its not breaking a nail, which hurts too. but she's not at risk of brain damage or paralysis, and seldom in danger of death, when she is, then ok, abortion is her choice
i dont appreciate you saying forced childbirth is physical injury, if thats the case, then so is voluntary childbirth
ghiz8 2 years ago
yes voluntary childbirth is an injury. but it ESPECIALLY is if it is forced. something causing extreme pain and forcing contractions on you IS an injury. not to mention many women have to get episiotomies or c-sections which is MAJOR surgery. and someone being inside of you against your will is injury enough. not all rapes leave physical damage but it is still an assault because it is forced. same with forced childbirth.
leiapeison 2 years ago 3
leiapeison
i find it abhorrent that you think giving birth voluntarily is any more painful than giving birth voluntarily
theres no difference in the baby, if its the child of a rapist or a lover
ghiz8 2 years ago
its because one is voluntary and one isnt. that isnt hard to understand. birth is traumatic and extremally painful. to have it forced on you is barbaric. i would never let anyone force me to be an incubator and then force childbirth upon my body. i would rather throw myself off a bridge.
leiapeison 2 years ago 2
leiapeison
well thats extremely unfortunate, but if that were the case, at least YOU hav the choice as to whether you want to live or die
the problem with abortion is the fetus isnt given that choice, its just killed
ghiz8 2 years ago
it isnt "just" killed. women dont usually make these decisions casually. if i killed myself the fetus would go down with me. you talk about bodily injury. dont even try to argue that c-sections or episiotomies arnt injuries. they are and they can happen to any woman.
leiapeison 2 years ago
I think they are BOTH physical injuries. My sister in law just had her baby and they had to cut down her vagina into her ass so the baby didn't rip it. They had to put in stiches and after having the baby (also before having it) she was constipated and when she finally went to the bathroom it tore open her stitches! She said her boobs were in so much pain before the kid was born but it got unbearable after the kid was born. She said her periods are ferocious now
MARLANAEMARTINEZ 2 years ago 5
I would not risk severe pain for death for someone I didn't know and I really don't care if you would be disgusted or not. I wouldn't expect some stranger to risk their physical well being for me!
MARLANAEMARTINEZ 2 years ago 4
Gh "but in the US only 16 in10 000 women die in pregnancy, sum of them by choice, very noble"
I would argue that if a woman goes ahead with a pregnancy knowing it will kill her, that does not make her very noble, that makes her very fucking stupid.
vmcparlin 2 years ago 2
lei: BUT I WAS A WANTED FOREIGN OBJECT!!!! do you not understand that?
I dont think she does. Not even an inkling!
sueezee 2 years ago 2
So I gather that you consider it a gross injustice when women suffer miscarriages? You know, that's involuntary manslaughter.
CompanionableIlls 3 years ago
manslaugher has at least sum intent to harm, or recklessness. a miscarriage, i sincerely hope, always, lacks these things
ghiz8 3 years ago
obesity, certain medications, even stress can cause miscarriages. do some research.
leiapeison 3 years ago
leiapeison
i know that already, and i in no way blame a woman for a miscarriage, defs not on cos obese, medication, or stressed
if you bothered reading properly yule notice that i was responding to Companionablels sarcastic comment
being obese, medicated or stressed, does not mean you intend to harm the life of another human being, even within you. and it does not make you reckless or culpable.
miscarriage isnt manslaughter, abortion is murder. i know my stuff. what a dumb comment
ghiz8 3 years ago
i know of women that smoked or took medicines to miscarry or they knew that their weight increased their risk of miscarriage but they didnt care. what then? how would you know if a miscarriage was intentional or not? how would you police something like this.
leiapeison 3 years ago
leiapeison
im not even going to grace that with a response. pls stick to a semi reasonable argument
ghiz8 3 years ago
it is legite. in el salvador if a woman goes into a hospital because she had a miscarraige they actually send in a SWAT team that solely specializes in abortion cases to FORCE her to undergo an invasive vaginal exam to check for any signs that she induced it herself. women can get up to 30 years in prison for having an abortion.
leiapeison 3 years ago
leiapeison
well i think that is an abominable breach of womens rites
ghiz8 3 years ago
which one? the invasive vaginal exam? how else do you expect to monitor the state of something the size of a grain of rice that lives inside a womans body? and what do you think the punishment for abortion should be? not to mention women can use ACUPUNCTURE to induce miscarriage. so, how do you intend to enforce this?
leiapeison 3 years ago
gosh ur accent so annoying but i agree with you a lot and it shows a lot that your voting for a democrat when yuo were a repulican
Obama 2008 foo
Proden3 3 years ago
I love your accent. It just adds to the "I'm not taking anymore shit" attitude.
you go girl.
percheron1654 3 years ago 2
wow... really good research. good to have you on our side, and its not necessarily about voting democrat (which i am btw) but its about voting for the best possible choice.
-Obama 2008-
lqdswrds 3 years ago
OOOPS! Wrong woman....Sorry! However, extemporaneous speaking is not your niche hon. A script would help quite a bit. What worries me is the Nobama, Reed, and Pelosi trifecta in control of the government. Can you say Russia? A single party in control of Congress and the White House is NOT a good thing.
51times9 3 years ago
Everything said in this video is the truth! I know, the truth can hurt sometimes.
Don't worry about the Democrats being in control of the government. Now you know how we Democrats have felt for the last eight years not least because Bush and his cronies STOLE the presidency from us and they then did everything to abuse their power.
The country will be in good hands with Obama. He's a good man and truly wants the best for all of us. Relax, chill out, look forward to a brighter future!
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
Ok, Don't let the hillbilly accent fool you. She's a British citizen who lives in France. She's doing a great job commenting on something she can't vote on at all. So don't be fooled by the act folks ;)
51times9 3 years ago
Actually, no, yo are wrong. I am an American citizen. And I have already voted.
OBAMA...our new next president!
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
Even if he weren't Christian he's still our only hope to move America forward.
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
"I'm voting Obama cuz hes a good christian, solid family man"
So you wouldn't be voting for Obama if he weren't christian?
Obama/Biden '08
explizidace 3 years ago
"Problems with the economy have nothing to do with McCain or Bush for that matter. Just a scare tactic."
You are wrong;
McCain voted along-side Bush 90% of the time.
explizidace 3 years ago
Wow! What is she thinking!
i wonder what she would do if it happend to her? not funny!
yeah i think women rock! i'm one! would you like to get payed for the same work as a man? oh yes i would!
so i voted OBAMA! he is one cool cat!
waitnotthere 3 years ago
Agree. Obama is the way to go.
apmail6 3 years ago 2
yep he is Man i hope he wins!!!!!!
go man go!
waitnotthere 3 years ago
I wasn't trying to pass a spelling test.
I don't find it interesting at all that you are rude and obviously a mean person as you insult so easily. You avoid thinking as you attempt to "Spin" discussions to suit your liking.
They say the economy is the biggest issue now. It will get worst when big business raises the prices of everything to cover his tax "Big Business". If you don't pay taxes don't expect a tax break.
I like Mr. Obama. I will not be disappointed when (if) he wins.
CosworthUSA 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Reasons for abortions
In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
20 years of listening to Rev. Wright preach Anti-American beliefs and racial white hatred make him a Christian???
Obama has 140 Days of experience in the senate.
When is CNN going to test him like they did Palin?
Paylin has years of active experiance. She manages 21 Billion budget, Manages 27000 employees.
She also sent allot of money back to every citizen in Alaska.
Problems with the economy have nothing to do with McCain or Bush for that matter. Just a scare tactic.
Palin is great!!!
CosworthUSA 3 years ago
interesting how Palin and Bush supporters can never spell......
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
Yes she's just great believing that rape victims should pay for what happened to them.
And believing that those women should bore their rapists child.
gotta love that!
not.
Obama<3
NeverBounceSideways 3 years ago 2
I did verify that Sarah Palin as Governor ONLY charges the false rape reporters the cost of the kits which are around $1500.00 I will report back with the link to this report because the full explanation wont fit in 350 charactors. Now you can be quiet now that the full story is reported.
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Ok Go ahead and quadruple tax on the rich and you will see them all move their companies into other country's and take the jobs away with them. Raise tax on a large corporation and they will pass it right down to the customer. They collect tax they don't pay them. YOU and I will!
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Look if you have to put me in a box I would much rather be a Christian then a Republican or Democrat. Throw them all in jail if they break the law. So if I work at Taco Bell then later become president everyone can accuse me for being for "Big Taco" Gesh. Check gas prices were down to 68 bucks a barrel, Will you give Bush credit for bringing prices down as fast as you accuse him of raising?
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
I did not say that they had to pay their own I said why is the first place they go is the Government? I would think if your broke you would ask family first then ask your church. If your pregnant do you ask Government to buy your pregnancy test? I hate rape more then anyone. I have 2 teenage daughters and a wife. My guess is that some rape cases turnout to be made up and the government loses income from those cases. This kit must cost a fortune because theydon't charge for an investigation.
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Police are paid for by the government. Police are there to stop and solve crimes. Crime investigation is paid for by the government. Rape is a CRIME. Therefore it was, in all places except Wasilla, paid for by the government.
You just don't get it, do you? RAPE IS AGAINST THE LAW! And law enforcement IS paid for by the government
But I don't want to converse with you any more because you are the most UN Christian, unfeeling person I have ever come across.
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
I see me and Sarah are against abortion and so we are both un-Christian?..The term Christian means Christ-Like so when you can prove that Jesus wants us to brutally murder his creation and keep in mind just because rape is envolved that innocent child is still 100 percent YOUR CHILD. Killing your children IS-UN Christian. I think you need to remove the cross from your neck and start reading the Bible. Capitalism over Socialism thats what were voting on Nov 4th
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
You can always spot a liberal because they can't make a point without including a personal insult. It doesn't require brainwashing to look up in the dictionary the meaning of the words Socialism and Communism.
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Personal insult? Excuse me, but not only did you personally insult me with your heartless comment about women having to pay for their own forensic tests after being violently raped but you insulted all women-kind.
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
If Biden was a top of the ticket it would make more sense. Republicans believe "self accountability" Democrats think Government is responsible for their success. Socialism is one step closer to Obama's Goal Communism. Income redistribution is Socialism...I like capitalism.
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Yes, I can see you are being brainwashed! Think for YOURSELF, stop all this communism nonsense that they are feeding you.
So what if the very richest have to pay an extra 3% tax, that is not socialism. The fact is that things need to CHANGE and the Democrats will make that change.
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
Obama's only experience is being an attorney for ACCORN. Thats right he knew that his goal was to be president and the only way he could win is by getting Federal Funds for ACCORN... 34 million to be exact and while he kept the support up then they would support him NOW
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Congratulations! You are exactly where the Republicans want you to be....maybe where you have been the last eight years..BRAINWASHED and with your mind off the important issues.
The country is in a mess and McCain has voted for 9O% of all Bush's policies to get us into this mess.
Obama's experience has been helping people. McCain's experience has been backing Bush and supporting a war over oil.
And Biden has a zillion times more experience than Sarah Palin.
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
Economy Bush's fault? DotCom bubble in 01 allowed by Clinton. 9/11 Terrorist allowed to plot/plan in USA under Clinton. Katrina Louisana Dems ran the state for 40 years never fixed their levys. Housing Bubble popped has been talked about since 1970 Yes all occured while Bush was president but not his fault. What happened under Clinton Black Hawk thats all..oh and gays in military. Had these disaters happened 1 year earlier BILL would be blammed.
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Yes, the economy IS Bush's fault. He is still in the pockets of Exon and all the oil companies and has spent BILLIONS on a false war. Several Republican senators had SHARES in Exon and made a fortune. Shedding blood for oil and borrowing billions from China.
Wake up! Just because your parents voted Republican doesn't mean you have to. CHANGE. Vote Obama! How much more proof do you need?
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
"Obama's only experience is being an attorney for ACCORN. Thats right he knew that his goal was to be president and the only way he could win is by getting Federal Funds for ACCORN.. 34 million to be exact and while he kept the support up then they would support him NOW"
You're full of shit, and you can't even spell. It's ACORN. "The only way he could win"?! What utter rubbish. The vast majority of Obama supporters have never benefited from ACORN; indeed, most have never HEARD of it. YOU FAIL.
HeyFreethinker 3 years ago
Womens rights? Abortion? Obama is a good Christian Man? Ask this question...What would Jesus do? Dont abort the innocent child Abort the rapest he is guilty not the child. Jesus wouldnt kill the baby so please dont say Obama is a good christian man. Remember "Thou shall not kill" Also Alaska has 10 men to every 1 woman that is why rape is high there. Why does everyone think government should pay for everything? Rape Kit??? Maybe Government should pay for my cab if I get drunk?
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Rape is a CRIME. It is the ONLY crime with an investigation not paid for by the state. So you justify rape, I see , and you want to protect the rapist by giving him an excuse that he is a man. Getting drunk is your CHOICE. Being violently raped is NOT a choice any woman would make. Jesus would be shocked by your answer! Go say a prayer and ask for forgiveness for what you said.
Mightymiteprods 3 years ago
"What would Jesus do? Dont abort the innocent child Abort the rapest he is guilty not the child. Jesus wouldnt kill the baby so please dont say Obama is a good christian man. Remember 'Thou shall not kill'"
Jesus never said "thou shalt not kill"; that was in the Old Testament where, despite that commandment, Yahweh (supposedly) often ordered people to kill innocent children and infants. Look at all the incidents in Deuteronomy where Yahweh ordered the Israelites to kill men, women and children.
HeyFreethinker 3 years ago
Mightyprods...Jesus never said to go to Cesar (Government) for anything other then to pay taxes. You need help in anyway he would send you to the Elders of the church. Where you could get money if needed and most important PRAYER which is far more important for a full recovery.
tsrcomputer 3 years ago
Furthermore, the ONLY Biblical mention of punishment for killing a fetus is in Exodus 21: "If men strive (fight), and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her (she miscarries), and yet no mischief follow (she survives): he shall be surely punished according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."
However, if she dies, the man who fatally injured her must be put to death. So the Bible clearly DOESN'T consider abortion to be murder.
HeyFreethinker 3 years ago
Don't think for a minute that there weren't good reasons for what Sarah has done! At least she votes!
Besides you should be talking about McCain. What a great American!
You are also wrong about her position on abortion.!
Obama is not a good Christian at all! Unless you think 20 years of listening to Wright preach White hatred and Anti-American beliefs.!
Obamas history is with Wright, Acorn, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko, Franklin Raines.
Obama has about 300 days of experience!
CosworthUSA 3 years ago
Sarah Palin´s only good reasons are to feed her ego! She lies! She cannot be trusted at all. She lies with a smile.
See her television interviews for yourself, oh ignorant one! She believes that even in the case of rape or incest a woman should not abort. What "experience" does Sarah Palin have? Being a hockey mom? Wow, like she could really run a country.
Only the rich or the really stupid will be voting for McCain/Palin.
bobgold 3 years ago
It's so true! She should focus on her "hockey mom's career" and forget about politic
bobgold 3 years ago
AMEN
timothyscottgilbert 3 years ago