The Aid Climbing Rant

[ecotahoe]

I think you have diminished the skill involved with performing at a higher technical standard. Kayaking is similar even free climbing indicates danger in most rating systems. Climbing, in general, is so arbitrary that as long as people are agreeing on an ethic then we can leave them be. The wall would only be truly free in a non stop free solo ascent and that would be even more pointless and impossible withoud decades of development. Anchors, Ropes, Gear woohoo have fun its a lark anyway.

[1138thz]

Question: When someone free climbs long rows of pin scars, uses the fixed pro left by the aid climbers on the first ascent have they really free climbed it?

For a truly free ascent shouldn't you shun pin scars as artificial features and fixed pro altogether? I'm just kidding actually, freeing old aid routs from the ground up is fair game(a great game). I can't say the same for so called 'free climbs' that were rap bolted, manicured and strung together with pre-placed pro.

[AlSwearengen15]

This video is funny. I agree with russellsteapot. Maybe aid climbing needs to revise its scale to be more focused on difficulty. I dont really know, I'm a free climber. I think aid climbing is interesting though. I'd like to try it someday.

[traemccombs]

The drilling bit I disagree with, but I see nothing wrong with doing clean aid. It's a mechanical fun. And yes, it allows those of us who weren't born 5'7" and weighing 101lbs to be able to access areas that may be otherwise inaccessible.

Entertaining point nonetheless. It's just sad to see the divisiveness this guy feels and perhaps that's come from others who were as vehement about some other position.

Anyhoo, I haven't climbed in years so I should shut my fat old buttocks up. :)

[1138thz]

@traemccombs

I hear ya, I can't comp hard free climbing to aid but I can say move thirty feet from a shitty copper head up a blank face using only hooks and tiny HB offsets towards what you think 'might' be a good placement and it gives us a good buzz. If I showed up at the bottom of an aid rout and was ready to blast off and some serious free climbers showed up wanting to 'free it' I would step aside and cheer them on! If they pulled it off I'd buy the beer. Then I'd aid climb it clean.

[tylerjbellows]

@traemccombs It's almost summer, and clearly you're yearning, so give in to it. Don't make excuses.

[Tarzan07330]

this dude has his shit together!! i back him up 100%!!!!

[joedag90]

In response to all the comments and not the video, people need to learn to stfu and enjoy what you do. I free climb and want to start aid climbing. I love every aspect of climbing, and I LOVE not being an asshole to other people. I bet that many of the people here are your regular gym rats. Btw, I am interested in clean aid, not leaving pin scars and using pitons.

Good video, stupid viewers

[irock1839]

SMASH THE STATE IS WAY RIGHT!!

[hiyaneil]

Dear mikenumber6, Yes i'm sure your mum could jumar a rope. However, jumars are not used when leading an aid route.

[mikenumber6]

Also, why it's not banned I have no idea. I hear concern over the effect of chalk eroding the rock, and scratch marks left by people dry-tooling summer rock routes that is ruining the route. Here people are drilling and bolting into the rock! Drilling!!! Disgraceful.

[mikenumber6]

The problem here is the word climbing. If you haul yourself up using jummars then it's not really climbing is it? It's dragging! Should be called aid dragging. My mum could climb something as smooth as a pool table with jummers. What's the point? If you can't climb it then admit it, say you're not good enough, go away, train and get better then come back. If you do something you know you can do you have achieved nothing. Do something you don't think you can do and find a way to do it. Then you

[paulsn]

maybe the problem is that people try to compare apples to pears... it's not the same thing. the motivation that drives aid climbers is different from the motivation that drives free climbers. you can argue about bolting and permanently altering the natural structure, but you can't argue about the motivation that drives people to do what they do. it's "i wanna get to the top" oder "i wanna get to the top using nothing but..."? if you say one things BETTER than the other, ur being an asshole.

[sanarkhos]

I have a great feeling of accomplishment when I free climb a route. I think this is the main reason I don't like aid climbing.

Just today I was leading a route, placing tiny 'aid' wires in a seam. I didn't climb far above them, but a 2KN wire isn't going to break just because I fall 6ft. Get over your A5 routes you silly daredevils.

[cmasurat]

climbing free is the way to be!

It's all about "adapting one's personal capacities and dimensions to the natural features of the rock." Lynn Hill

[ben092582]

love this stuff, but seriously i think aid is great. it's kind of like those blue spaces in the front of parking lots. :)

[mtheyssen]

Climbing for status and self-confirmation. Shallow....and sad. A few more years and the younger stronger climbers will be making fun of this guy because he is only a 5.12 climber. Why, because he is teaching this behavior.

Chris here is a joke for you......Why dont you just go out and get some Rogaine and a "Vette" like the other mid life crisis guys. Your so full of shit.

[stevetimetravlr]

Not really very funny, more like kind of stupid.

[TylerV636]

The aid route to the left of the casual route could be "grand traverse" which I think is A4. I think this route went free though and was only called 11b. I could be wrong there though - I don't know much about the area other than reading the guide books.

[ChapmanBertelli]

I bummed around the valley in 1980++, a grade yet to be established. Soloing the shield with whatever I had but enjoying the freedom where no one gave a toss about the number. Just how it was done. Grades suck when one thinks of the times. My tongue is stuck to my cheek watching this.

[stoopidkid2]

google "articulo mortis" by Russ walling. People dont spray about loosing partners.

plus dropping ropes on people is a real doosche move.

[againstheapproaching]

A funny over-simplification, as you know.

[PaulWolf2007]

It´s good to have a rating system but I dont think there is as much drive in aid climbing to do harder routes. El Cap is really a training ground for the Himalayas, and the idea is to learn how to cover terrain and move fast, not to minimize the safety. Check out some of the incredible walls - Charakusa, Trango, Mt Asgard on Baffin Island, etc - then jump off with a wingsuit. Look at the bigger picture don´t just chase numbers.

[joelrobertandersen]

hahaha i love this debate. I think people should do it as long as they have fun doing it. I do understand and respect what chris is saying here though. some people say that using a rope is cheating too. I say just pack out what you packed in and tread light. =^) if you have a fun story to tell afterwords then great.

[GaiaMind]

Aid ratings do have an inherant difficulty of the moves. That is why routes like Reticent wall and roulette are rated "A3 R" or "A5 R", the "R" indicates ground fall potential, but in the A5 indicates a particular difficulty and commitment.

Are you telling me that on an FA in a remote mountain range, 26 pitches up in 30F weather, I should be able to send 5.13 with swollen, bruised hands, or just go down 6 pitches short of a summit if I only have to drill 5 batholes?

It's all relative bro.

[spikeddem]

@GaiaMind Yeah, that's exactly what he is saying . . .

[barberoso]

People climb free routes with R and X ratings all the time and are fine. So should we strip R & X ratings on free climbs? No, because the rating gives the climber valuable info before getting on the rock. Same with aid ratings. There's a skill & risk difference between A2, A3, A4 & A5. In preping for an aid climb I'd wanna know the security of placements, which the rating conveys.

[pestobrother]

It's just a logical argument, funny also, but mostly logical. If it hurts your feelings you are reading too much into it.

[stevetimetravlr]

I would say hard aid is damn hard and dicey. People who have to put other climbers down do so to make their dick look bigger, doesn't work. Climbing encompasses all disciplines, none being more macho then another. Best to be multidisciplines, and take your dick out of your hand.

[tisaacso3625]

climbers are a bunch of egotistical wankers behind their laid back fa sades.

[slickrock5065]

nice rant but what a donk. i keep expecting the camera to pan down and see this guy with an audience of wide eyed fricking tween noob climbers. different strokes fordifferent folks man. suck it.

[captron8]

I thought climbing was between you and the mountain not peer pressure, and extrinsic values,

[elwapbr]

I don't think any serious aid climbers would really contest what he's saying. I mean it's kinda silly to have a rating system based on the objective hazard of the route, where equipment is becoming better each year. but nearly all climbing, not just aid, is contrived. the process and the challenge of that process are what most of us find rewarding. the only time we ever fight is when someone claims their style, or their routes, is better than someone else's. at the end of the day, who cares?

[Mixolydian87]

Maybe because your wrong in assuming the A0/A5 scale is based on danger to the climber.

The aid system has more traditionally become associated with "danger of the climb" but you are missing the fact that the aid system is based on the quality of the holds.

And not the chances of injury.

It's not based on "objective hazards"

[TageOne]

Wait, so for aid climbing you use the gay ladder things? I've always wondered what those were for.

[freeskierwi]

100% agreed, an aid climb is only as difficult as you make it. to rate an aid route hard, you have to purposely set crappy protection...with the gear today, anything is climbable via aid and requires zero physical/mental talent compared to free

[benbradley3992]

who cares as long as they dont wreck the rock with hammers and pitons let them make their outrageous death defying claims. We can smile and know their wrong

[freeskierwi]

"who cares as long as they dont wreck the rock with hammers and pitons" hammers and pitons do wreck the rock

[RafMaxwell]

And some people turn to aid climbing when they resign themselves to not being any good at free climbing, for whatever reason. Then they can still spray like a free climber does when they send a hard or long route...except its not as hard.

[climbingfool2008]

Alright already. Who gives a damn? What I'm trying to point out is that climbing doesn't need an Ethics Police Death Squad to make sure we're all climbing at the top of our form and extending the sport to it's most logical and most ridiculous extention... climbing blindfolded and hog-tied with a gun toting, sneering, blond-coiffed ethics nazi shouting, "Make dass move, or you die!"

[scully6020]

obviously you give a damn...

[tarbooshchristophine]

I'm deeply in love with Chris and Dan!

[jammanator]

I have to agree with CK's take on aid. Luckily the only place people really still aid climb is in yosemite, and its dying out.

[jasonlloydstevens]

This is funny! I was an aid climber too and I agree with him. His "Rant" describes well the flawed rating system. Aid climbing is still hard, though, and I'll keep doing it! DAMN FUNNY!

[climbingfool2008]

The "logical extension" of this guy's argument is we shouldn't be allowed to climb stuff if it's not pushing the sport. We should be ashamed to climb a 5.2 because there's elitist assholes who are sportclimbing 5.14s. He and his snickering yes men find it amusing to drop a rope on someone? Yeah, that's my idea of COMEDY.

[michaelcottone]

I think his point was that aid climbing is contrived. There is nothing wrong with climbing 5.2's. But no one would claim that they are extremely difficult. It is the same with aiding. There is nothing wrong with aid climbing in and of itself. The problem comes when aid climbers claim that their routes were "death-defying." When a climber chisels in pro, or hooks, yet makes the placement intentionally awful so the climb is "harder", the climb becomes contrived.

[climbingfool2008]

This guy sounds as idiodic as surfers who don't want "non-locals" playing in their waves. It's all about having fun and getting up the damn thing. Who cares how it's done? We don't Big-Brother-Climbing-Police to keep us "pure." The great Warren Harding said, "Put up scaffolds if you have to."

[calinash]

part 3 did i forget to mention that most hard aid pitches A$ A5 even A3 or A2 are of top free-climbing difficulty 5.14 5.13 so only a very limited number of people can do them. Let Aid climbers Climb their aid climbs and sport climbers climb their sport climbs and if somebody wants to free an aid pitch go ahead but don't add bolts in rappel that's not cool . if you can drill them on lead by hand still on the redpoint( no hangdogin) that's ok.

[ken4ord]

That is sort of stupid, isn't the aid climber who is putting in a bolt hang dogging. Why have a different set of rules? I feel like the same sort of unwritten rules should apply, see if the first ascentionist has a problem with more protection being added.

[calinash]

part 2 of previous comment: Aid gives you the opportunity to climb a virgin line on a big-wall without having to on-sight 5.14.

[calinash]

this whole argument is missing the point the guy isn't talking about the fact that Aid is easy. Hard Aid is as hard as hard free-climbing but not in the same way. free is hard physically and aid is hard technically and mentally. You need just as much skill to climb it the difference is you can learn it faster because it doesn't rely on years of physical conditioning.

[crippledfatty]

so... free-climbing is harder

[climber5150]

This guy takes it in the turd cutter. What a woman, look at the beverage he is drinking.

Dude, you are a TOOL BAG. Get off your soap box. If I ever see you in the valley I'm going to kick your ass.

[mfunkbarley]

Love it!

Great rant, don't agree with all of the "logic."

and with that this is one of the best video's I watched yet.

More climbers need to be like this guy.

[drunkjanne]

If he thinks drilling is bad i sure hope he solo's bolted sportroutes...

[irock1839]

a RURP! in sandstone! mud!

[robaderchi]

What a fag!!! A5 is about not drilling, and the use of non enhanced body weight placements. Not death pitch's you ass! Most free climbs on Elcap would have not gone free if it wasn't for aid climbers.

[alpinejerr]

Dude..You dropped your rope,and its no big deal.You lost all credability right from the start!And while your rant on the aid climbing grade system carries weight.Your altruistic attitude about free climbing,as the end all be all,makes you look like a chump!As an alpinist I free ice,rock,neve,and snow. I climb with rope ,solo and partnered.I do aid and what ever (except bolts) it fricken takes to get to the top!Free climbing is one skill set in the realm of climbing not the pinacle!

[splitterchoss]

no, free climbing actually is the pinnacle. it's the best style, with free soloing being the absolute purist form. and sheesh people, chill out, it's all in good fun. maybe everyone is so fired up because he is striking close to home?

[SymAmineC8H11N]

@splitterchoss isn't aid climbing just a technique used on surfaces that have very little to no holds & are completely vertical??

[1138thz]

@splitterchoss e

It is funny, but his point about the way some do aid is true (turning A4 into A2). I heard that in the 80's some Japanese climbers graced the dihedral wall with a load of 1/4in X 1/2 inch deep direct aid bolts on a section that had been done clean XX times. From what I saw in JA they shit on their own rocks too. There's a 1500ft tall face North of Kurobe dam that was so loaded with soft pins that it made me sick when combined with the chopsticks and sushi litter that abounds.

[room490]

@alpinejerr,

Dude, chris didn't drop the rope, some other dude in the crowd did.

You've misunderstood what you viewed

[johnlee001]

I'm new to climbing and the climbers I've met to date and the videos I've seen are of very humble but competent, friendly yet daring in their climbs and stories... this is the first that I've heard so much pompous crap... For all I know everything this guy is saying may be true but man does his verbal diarrhea make me want to hang my head in shame... for all climbers (trad, free, indoor, sport etc...)

[irock1839]

oh, lighten up...he's just having fun

[HarryJVaughn3]

Well if you don't think Hard aid should be rated on a death scale. How about the size of your nuts scale. Only having climbed moderate aid pitches, I can only imagine A4+ requiring big brass balls, even if you won't die, not a lot of people have the nerve to even go there to find out.

[HarryJVaughn3]

right or wrong, I enjoy listening to this guy rant. " we have a confirmed A5 pitch, here's the corpse." classic line.

[irock1839]

This is one of my favorite videos on YouTube. Everything he says about the aid rating system is true. Aid climbing is a god-awful slow way of almost cheating at climbing...plus it involves a SHIT TON of equipment, is super expensive, and places almost no emphasis on training or ability.

"...he dropped his rope and STARTLED AN AID CLIMBER"

"...we have a confirmed A5 pitch......here's the corpse."

"i'm reformed....i sat in the meadow and sprayed!"

[AlohaMilton]

Chalk is aid gear... I'm just saying, its kinda lame how people are always spraying on about that 5.13 or whatever that they just freed, and I can see the white crap under their fingernails. They don't fool me a bit. Dried out blood is really the only acceptable substitute to your bare skin, and it has to be your own blood.

[Meahtots]

really?  that a ridiculous argument.

[AlohaMilton]

dude, joke. Go see a doctor your funny bone is broke.

[splitterchoss]

chris is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. he's just having some fun here.

[Jackle61]

Good thing they took his drink away from him. Even though I agree with a lot of what he says,it's not pretty when pompous people have too many. Or maybe it's just the way he comes across.

[northcave]

Aid is dead? Thats just rediculous. Its like sport climbers saying a trad climber taking a rest on the placement is "not proper climbing". It is a different discipline.

There is a place for both free and aid climbing. I'd say Aid is a good extension towards true mountaineering. You're climbing to get to the top, not because of its grade or kudos or chance of death. Please lets not make climbing as clicky as every other sport.

[russellsteapot]

this is actually a really effective argument. nothing contentious about this video. it's plausible that the grading system hinders the sport.

[elvis237]

RUBBISH!

[tomdarch]

In an all knowing, 3rd person narrator sense, no, most aid is not hard. But go try it - it feels scary as hell.  Nothing like making what seems like a series of bomber placements, then looking down and realizing that the pieces that didn't fall out are total crap and you're now way above your last good piece. Chris is right on about the BS of supposed A5 ratings - and right on that your brain will scream "I'm gonna die!" while you're up there!

[SOEdigital]

Well said!

Amen to that!

[freeridr]

A-fucking-men brother. Aid climbing is dead. Nobody cares about SuperRadBro's new El Cap "A4+" connect-the-rivet-ladders route that will never get repeated. Soon the mags will quit giving Hot Flashes to these rock-raping idiots. Great rain-rant. Cochamo?

[mgoose288]

the guy who aid climbs it is obviously wrong. Are you seriously going to make a virtual ladder up a wall and then call it hard??

[kma0818]

LMAO Got an chance to hang with chris for a short time in vegas many moons ago. While I was an load mouth young punk and Chris was a little above that I could listen to hours on his "rants" he is classic. And beware all nay sayers he is the real deal. He is the true sprit of climbing. Dangerous and adventure. Climbing was never meant to be safe...

Kurt Arend

[armstrongw5]

wassup style police.

[stoehnercd]

Its all good the movement that you are trying to make towards free climbing...I can appreciate that, but dude not everyone can learn to climb 5.14 in their lifetime, and whos wrong the guy who realizes he can't climb it and (quits) or the guy that aids it out and summits? It seems logical that quitters never win man, and never advance themselves as climbers.