the title of this video is somewhat misleading since D'Souza is not intellectually or mentally capable of debating HItchens on any level, the dumbass Dinesh is quite literally an ignorant fool who is way out of his (little) league here
@guilhermefreire48 if god is omnipotent, and created evryone, with the rules that decide if your save or go to hell, then some people get to miss the right religion oups,,,borne in the wrong place and time, well, either way do we have free will, your question make no sence it is a un sophisticated argument some people made long ago, and it is isnt use anymore, as you can see why
@guilhermefreire48 if god is omnipotent, and created evryone, with the rules that decide if your save or go to hell, then some people get to miss the right religion oups,,,borne in the wrong place and time, well, either way do we have free will, your question make no sence it is a un sophisticated argument some people made long ago, and it is isnt use anymore, as you can see why
@guilhermefreire48 and what if you dont want to live forever, what if you just wanna say to god, well, your plan isnt working for me, he did reveal himself to evryone, and you decide, nah, i dont want this, cause it suck, i know i dont wanna leave forever, it is a stupid human wishfull thinking that takes off values of evrething, cause if evrething is infinite, nothing as values, will god then say oups havent taught of that one, cause then you dont have free will, you dont even have free taught
The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."
You cannot reasonably think that God exists, or that the Universe is anthropocentric.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
@ranger1843 well if the moron Dinesh DID read any of the same books he is obviously too mentally retarded to understand them, the man is a complete and utter fool/ tool/ whiny asshole bitch who gets Hitchslapped over and over by the superior intellect of Hitchens, moron
@snickhill of course that only happened in your small mentally retarded brain...the rest of the universe understands what a complete fucking idiot this asshole is, moron
@yomammaabinman He has it spot on. Dawkins should stick to biology. If the God Delusion isn't the most boring book I have ever read. And I am an agnostic.
craig lane said it best about hitchens argument about the universe being doomed and all by saying that this is an atheistic view, for god life doesn not end when earth is destroyed but it is only part of it. most of our existance will be in heaven.
You see the hopelessness and inhumanity of atheism in the faces and lives of its devotees. We were made and fit by and for God and all attempts to negate that reality lead to misery.
I like Hitchens for his wit and intelligence but D'Souza won the debate here hands down. His arguments are much stronger and more on target, he is much more articulated. Hitchens arguments seems a bit childish and hafl baked. He also seems a bit intoxicated, which doesn't help. Maybe if he would have been sober he could have done a better job.
i am sorry but i had a copy of that debate but i think, de souza won the debate. bout hitler, you did not hear when mr. de souza stated that mr. hitler hired atheists to kill jews.
Go on Dinesh. Though your forefather left the original belief of your ancestors , yet their genes in you contains respects for whatever faith you have inherited,
Give the descendants of chimps in the form of white-man and their new demigods a good trashing.
The fine tuning argument is a COMPLETE FAILURE. Youve NEVER prooved that everything that appears to be desigend to us is or was infact designed by some sort of designer. Grow up, thats childish thinking. Science ALWAYS has better explanations, but the fearful, ignorant and arrogant still want to find gaps and claim that God is the best explanations. HOW DARE YOU make the claim that BILLIONS of galaxies, TRILLIONS of stars and Billions of solar systems were all desigend so that a
@mrabdrum species as ignorant, as horrible, as immoral, as greedy as ours can evolve. Lets not forget that more than 99.99...........% of the universe is deadly and doesnt support life. What fine tuning is this? This is not fine tuning. This is trying so desperately to make God an explanation for everything. Look at history and you'll notice that God was always used as the explanation for everything we didnt know about. Example? life. How did life come about? God was the answer for many years,
@mrabdrum but then Darwin came along and studied life and using science, he explained life in a brilliant theory. There are tons of other cases. So the religious people keep trying to find things that we cant explain and then say "oh look we cant explain this therefore God created/designed it. People, grow up, look at the universe, quit being arrogant. Be happy that stars had to be destroyed so that we can live.
These are two unrelenting buffoons. I refuse to take sides in this farce. I denounce them both and all those in the audience who laugh mockingly and applaud with animal abandon back and forth at each other like monkeys flinging dung.
@NDayatida One could laugh at the assertions of atheists who say God is a fairy tale all the while convoluting science to fit this fairy tale of a hypothesis called life without a beginning. You are the ones who believe in fairy tales.
Hitchens it a brilliant thinker, but I think he's made a mistake in stereotyping the Nazis as Christian. The Nuremberg trials have proven that Hitler had begun to destroy the Church in Germany in order to replace it with his own State Religion which was easier to control. Also, Hitler's "Positive Christianity" changed the Bible: removed many of Jesus' miracles, claimed that Jesus is an Aryan, etc.
@synal - Which shows there are educated fools (like Hitchens) & people so biased that they just repeat nonsense and shallow 'thinking'. The typical, sloppy Hitler-is-Christian is so easily refuted, he has no excuse.
Hitler wasn't Christian, he was catholic. I was born in Poland and my grandma told me of German nazi soldier coming through town. All wearing a cross on their neck, and it wasn't the nazi cross. American douche bags who think they know European history need to STFU sometimes. To Hitchens and atheists though it makes no difference as starting a new "nazi church" is still a religion making the point that religion sucks once again valid.
@LambdaQuarks So given his disregard for God, in that he's even willing to change the Bible/create his own religion simply to control people, what makes you think that he even believes any of it? And please get your facts right. Hitler invented a religion called "positive Christianity" and then promptly started destroying the Churches in Germany.
What is the difference? If he invented another religion then simply read my last sentence in my previous post. One religion sucks as much as any other and is just as false. All claims from all religions are on equal ground as they all have equal evidence for their validity, as in none at all.
@LambdaQuarks That is besides the point. I'm not contesting your faith in the non-existence of God. My statement is to contest the stereotyping of Hitler as Christian. There is insufficient evidence to conclusively prove that.
@synal There is more evidence to prove that Hitler was a catholic then there is for the existence of god. Also it isn't faith to say that there is no god, just pure reasonable logic.
@LambdaQuarks Where is your evidence that Hitler was catholic? All you have is faith, because your evidence is in your words, "grandma told me of German nazi soldier coming through town.All wearing a cross on their neck, and it wasn't the nazi cross." How does that prove that Hitler is catholic?! At least my statement is fair. I didnt even claim that he's atheist. All that I said is that it would be a mistake to stereotype him as "Christian"
I never said he was christian. He says himself he is a catholic in mein kamf. He spared churches and gained their trust. It isn't faith when someone sees something first hand and no one from Europe would claim he wasn't a catholic. Even Catholics say he was one in shame. Maybe you should do some research first, as if pictures with catholic priests waving together wouldn't be enough? Its physical evidence. By the way, I honestly couldn't care less which way he went. Religious he was.
@LambdaQuarks The Nuremberg trials have proven that Hitler had begun to destroy the Church in Germany in order to replace it with his own State Religion which was easier to control. Also, Hitler's "Positive Christianity" changed the Bible: removed many of Jesus' miracles, claimed that Jesus is an Aryan, etc.
@synal Hitler was a catholic. "God on our side" was written on every belt buckle of every nazi soldier. Plus, he is quotes a ton of times claiming that what he does is in the name of the LORD.
@mrabdrum That's true, but I really don't think that we should trust the words of a politician trying to appeal to a christian country. He hardly attended Church, he got his chief Nazi ideologue, Rosenberg, to invent the National Church system to destroy Christianity(point 18. The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bible and pictures of saints.) and to return Germany to Paganism. Hitler's positive Chrisianity claimed Jesus to be an Aryan, removed many miracles.
@mrabdrum Then why did he negate the catholic sacrament of marriage by forcing the SS officers to "re-marry" in the SS custom? Why did Nazi propaganda show videos of stained glass windows being broken only to reveal a swastika in the background? Why did Hitler praise northern mythologies, the northern gods and believed in aryan race, all of which have nothing to do with Catholicism but are considered highly pagan? Hitler's views on Christianity are well documented, you're just plain ignorant.
@Dodo251 Sir, Hitler has countless amounts of quotes claiming that what he did was the LORDS will, and on EVERY belt buckle of every Nazi soldier it said God on our side. I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU CALL THIS, BUT ITS NOT ATHEISM.
@mrabdrum Go read a few books and stop using the same old argument. Germany's populace at the time was mostly Christian and he knew full well how to gain their support. Politicians have their ways of deceiving the public, as is well observable throughout the history. By the way, documents revealing Hitler's true intentions with Christianity (as well as his loathful comments) were released so get educated.
@Dodo251 Yea yea yea the same typical crap I hear all the time. People who do bad are not true Christians... And people who do good are true Christians. This bullshit has to stop son. Don't tell me to get educated because I am educated. I made all A's throughout my highschool years. Hitler claimed he believed in God, and used God to justify his retarded actions. Every soldier had to wear a buckle that said God on our Side. Again, whatever this is, its not Atheism.
@Dodo251 Yea yea yea the same typical crap I hear all the time. People who do bad are not true Christians... And people who do good are true Christians. This bullshit has to stop son. Don't tell me to get educated because I am educated. I made all A's throughout my highschool years. Hitler claimed he believed in God, and used God to justify his retarded actions. Every soldier had to wear a buckle that said God on our Side. Again, whatever this is, its not Atheism.
@Dodo251 Yea yea yea the same typical crap I hear all the time. People who do bad are not true Christians.. And people who do good are true Christians. This bullshit has to stop son. Don't tell me to get educated because I am educated. I made all A's throughout my highschool years. Hitler claimed he believed in God, and used God to justify his retarded actions. Every soldier had to wear a buckle that said God on our Side. Again, whatever this is, its not Atheism.
@guilhermefreire48 LOL? "The real God"? Which one would that be? Zeus, Thor, Jesus ,Allah, Mythra, or one of the other thousands of mythical gods? Hitler believed in a God, therefore he was not an Atheist. An Atheist is a person WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.
@mrabdrum An occultist is far from a christian for exemple.What we christians mean by God is the whole existence,the whole structure of reality.Omnipotence,omnipresence,eternity.The most simple and perfect immaterial being.Not some silly thing like Thor,or a Black Sun.
@guilhermefreire48 Well, the argument was whether or not Hitler was an Atheist. I don't care which God he believed in. The fact is that he did believe that he had devine authority to do what he did. From that fact, it follows that he was not an Atheist.
@guilhermefreire48 no imbecile, Thor is the exact same thing, an imaginary being conjured up by those weak of mind who lack the ability or patience to understand the things that are incomprehensible. Your god, your jesus, why exactly are those stories from 2000 years ago valid in you mind as opposed to the stories of the quran, or the rigveda? Fool, it's amazing how there are so many idiots in this world that are too retarded too think lmao
@guilhermefreire48 lmfao, every christian idiot,who is too feeble-minded to see the truth in their deluded can't take one little insult, and at least I had a reason to call you that dumbass, your response is just a waste of time..just admit you're an idiot, I gave valid points, and you did nothing to rebuke them but pick on a little tidbit that really has nothing to do with the main point
@guilhermefreire48 Your immaterial omnipotent being is silly. If you are christian then you believe in the old and new testament correct? Why would such a powerful being not protect children from slavery? Your so called holy book tells you how to treat your slaves and even mentions that you can beat them as long as they survive. If you dont like that and cherry pick your bible then you are a heretic in your own faith because you are not obeying the word of god
@eddyg545 Understanding the Bible is not as simple as some fundamentalists would like us to believe.For instance slave also meant he who obeys a King.You also need to understand that the Bible has a lot of allegories,Jesus for exemple often spoke in parables.In Isaiah we read about violently killing the children of the enemy,it takes a second look to realize that the enemy is evil personified and that his children are the sins.
@eddyg545 Plato's Cavern is a myth just like the parable of the Leaven tolf by Jesus, but we can actually lean much about reality from both can't we? You shouldn't mistake every christian for a fundamentalist. If even St. Aquinas and Saint Agustine made mistakes how could we understand the Bible by reading it partially and just once?
@guilhermefreire48 to you thor might sound silly,because you are indoctrinated in christianity, christianity for me look as silly as for you thor is looking, lets face it, one got a hammer, the other send his son, to be sacrifice for the sin of other, wich he couldve just forgive, since he is omnipotente, but really he send himself, cause he is the same person, and the notion that evryone has to pay the price, for something only inddividual did is a stupid one, plus adam and eve is a mythe,
@lapmarty Look in the end you'll have to choose between being a servant in heaven,or revolting against the structure of reality. Accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and God's forgiveness or not. It's your call.
@lapmarty There are some books I recommend to all people with serious doubts: Orthodoxy and The Everlanting Man - Chesterton,The Abolition of Man and Miracles - C.S Lewis, The Idiot - Dostoyevsky, Mystics & Miracles - Bert Ghezzi, Pensees - Pascal, Nearer, My God - William F. Buckley Jr., Socrates Meets Jesus - Peter Kreeft
I believe it's almost impossible to read these books and remain an atheist.
@guilhermefreire48 Iv read 3 in your list, and i dont consider myself a pure atheist as i am open to a god we could callled einstein god, one that dont inetervene in human affair, and didnt have special plan obviously for us,
i think otherwise we are just re-doing the same mistake again,to think that we are the center of the universe once more, wich everytime we did, we were proven wrong,
and lately all research pointed out at a multiverse, wich again, put us really really far from teh center
@lapmarty So you don't deny God, just christianity. I must say that the life of Jesus Christ is very well documented, his followers called him the son of God, his adversaries called him a mage. Why not trust the man who said "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"
@lapmarty Doesn't christian tradition also remind us of how little we are? Isn't humility a cadinal virtue? Tolkien didn't choose a hobbit to carry the ring out of nothing. "Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. "Matthew 19:14
@lapmarty "inetervene in human affair, and didnt have special plan obviously for us" I also have to diagree with that, as Eistein said "God doesn't play dice", creation happened for a reason, even the smallest things have meaning, otherwise we would end up with the old Gnostic illusion of the evil god.
@guilhermefreire48 einstein has been proven wrong about mecanic quantic, and ``god is reallt playing dice`` mecanic quantic is the most succesfull theory of all time, it has been proven to be amazingly accurate, in fact your using a computer now, build on this discovery,
you have a old anthopocentric reflex, any god worth having, would have done it with a greater sheme in mind, then a primitive primate species in one tiny corner of the universe,
@lapmarty Being at the spiritual center is not being in the material center of the universe. Our lives still have meaning, we are not cosmic dust, we have souls. Love, sacrifice, hope, trust... All humans grasp a glimpse of the cosmic order's intent,even being so little we can feel it.
@TheEmitt Hitler created a fake christ and distributed a fake bible.He said the jewish christ was a lie and tried to intitute a fake idol.In a christian country it had to be done for the nazi propaganda to work.That is hardly true christianity.
@noshabibis God is everywhere, if you open your eyes and heart for a second you will see. Look at a tree,the skies, the sun, and see the beauty of his work.
Pray, and you will see that he answers through the happenings of your life.
@guilhermefreire48 Uhhhhh yeah i can pray to a huge rat and say that he created everything. Looks like you skipped Biology and other Science classes during your high school years.
@noshabibis There is just one little problem.When you say rat you mean a material being, no one here is defining God as a material being.
Flying Spaguetti,huge rat...those are all linked to images of material things.So they have cannot describe omnipotence,omnipresence,eternity, and etc. Looks like you skipped all you philosophy classes.
@noshabibis The personal relationship with God is the biggest proof, if you still need another one here it is: 1- Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence; 2- The universe has a beginning of its existence; Therefore: 3- The universe has a cause of its existence. 4- If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God; Therefore: 5- God exists.
wait so Hitchens is saying that he believes there is no God because God surely would have made more than one planet with sustainable life. what an argument way to go you fucking idiot
he's arguing that it must be an idiotic and wasteful god. he goes on to say that even on this planet extinction is the norm rather than the exception. he mistakenly says the sun will boil up into a red dwarf. it won't. it will expand in to a red giant and engulf the earth
Atheists have the hedge on smarts? That literally made me "LOL". Atheism can't explain why anything philosophical or moral exists, and yet they claim to have the hedge on smarts? Try watching "Collision" or read Doug Wilson's responses to Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Chris Hitchens. Try watching Greg Bahnsen demolish Ben Stein, or James White putting the intellectual smackdown on David Silverman. At least Christians don't deny the obvious...
Hitchens' answer to the question of a fine-tuned unvierse without a fine-tuner was to deny the value of life (which sadly got a laugh), but his answer only served to support D'Souza's point that historically the greatest destroyer of human life has not been religion, but atheism which, as D'Souza pointed out, in a philosophy where there is no God, life has no value and mass murder is permitted.
@Deborah8050 . Even if atheism permits mass murder, i'd be an atheist if it offers the truth. But incidently I have been an atheist since school and I haven't killed anyone.
It's funny reading comments by people posting here, ridiculing D'Souza and his supporters, and making fun of the supporters ignorance of science and even their grammar, when their own posts are FULL of grammatical mistakes and their knowledge of science and physics is apparently non-existent! I'll tell you what: Go Google "the Brain and Quantum non-locality" or even "statistical probability of the Big Bang resulting in life" and then come back and make your posts, geniuses!
Dinesh is no more than an opportunistic shithead who is riding the crest of American religious fervor and minting money off it. I dislike him, because he acts so sure of himself only to try to impress millions of brainwashed Americans.
@ib422000 and hitchens does what exactly? They both support what side they are on equally. A debate is a debate, you don't have to agree with the person you aren't supporting, yanno?
Hitchens has a problem not just with religion, but with facts, he always qoutes other "scientists" and avoids physics and other evidence. They fear authority, and appeal to the human selfishness and unwillingness to be "constrained" to a moral authority. If proved beyond a reasonable doubt, they still would argue pointness facts that require as much faith as a believer.
@aranflewen Probably because hes weak minded and needed purpose in his life in other interviews he keeps saying it gives purpose to life so that must be it.
@aranflewen Hes unnable to accept new information and leave the old useless information behind maybe because he was taught growing up it was the truth. Most religious people fear death they cant accept dying and not existing so they turn to religion or stick with religion, those are the people who cant man up to reality so they believe in a fairy tale.
@lilsm555 excuse me, my query implies on his religious affiliation switch. I am not yet on the mode of interacting about atheism so please, be clear enough to read the words I stated ok? you better try to listen before declaring hasty generalizations.
@aranflewen LOL! you asked me what kind of weak minded are you saying? which doesnt make sense obviously if you have been to 1st grade english you would know that and i answered. If you have a problem with what i said IDC the truth hurts, deal with reality and grow up.
Hitchens has an idea of how the universe should be constructed- he doesn't like the present architecture. He also has an idea of the way regimes should conduct themselves- He doesn't like certain ones. Why should we care what he thinks? Maybe I like the universe. Maybe I like Catholic Fascism. Is he the standard or is God? He has no argument; just a bunch of flowery words and moral sentiments. How much better to accept your creator and live accordingly. "Oh how I love thy law".
This debate got off track. D'Souza mentions the fine tuning of the universe and then Hitchens doesn't like the person who fine tuned it. In essence says he could do better. Just hubris.
@barbourjohn You're a bit off John. Hitchens is simply saying that D'Souza "evidence" for God is contradictory. D'Souza is saying god is a married bachelor and Hitchens is demonstrating how such a definition does not make sense.
"If God does not exist, then everything is permissible."
Simply wrong Dinesh. More like "If God exists, then everything is permissible." Because if there is a God, and if he tells a groups believers to kill a group of infidels (like he did several times in the OT), then the believers cannot oppose him. If there is a God who makes all the rules in the universe, then, because he is the rule maker, he is allowed to make any rule he wants. Anything goes, according to him.
@TheCaptianKirk True, God can make any rule He wants. I wonder why He keeps you alive? Maybe it's because He is a God of love and mercy. Maybe God had a purpose in the Old Testament. Perhaps it had something to do with preparing the world for a Savior. Maybe our first parents actually rebelled against a God who made everything good. Maybe God even used this to bring about a better purpose by showing us His mercy. Maybe He set his followers free in order to love and heal.
Dinesh, you've been Hitchslaped. The sick part is you don't even recognise it. It's sad that Dinesh was given the last word in the video, because even I can refute that lame argument.
This is like watching two blind men debate a painting. Their grasp of physics is what you'd get from watching a single programme about space - and then beating your head on a table to get rid of half of it. At least Hitchens acknowledges that. D'Souza's argument that Darwinism doesn't explain why (say) gravity is "perfectly calibrated" for life on Earth is so stupid it boggles the mind: life on Earth has evolved to fit that calibration of gravity, not the other way around.
Love how Atheists always point out stuff like "The Vatican ordered Hitler's birthday to be celebrated in every church under his regime" Because if they had done the opposite, the SS would have taken that so welll.....
Argh I want to believe in God but I just can't- to answer D'Souza's question for every Earth that succeeds in developing life there are an infinitesimal amount of planets which DON'T for the exact parameters he said. If we looked hard enough I'm sure we could find other intelligent life in the universe.
D'Souza does as good as he could, but he argues from a bad premise. the Roman Catholic Church is beyond defending when it comes to fascism, and other tyrannies. Doug Wilson did a MUCH better job and showed up Hitchens for the lightweight that he is (and all atheists are).
@ASonOfLiberty1776 .lol all atheists are?religion is meaningless.You were born into whatever religion oyu are by chance.lolmm now i know immjust a stupid atheist but yet no once in the public sphere of so called academics has given even a remotely good answer against that.The diea of a personal god who interferes in your life is an eqaulyl idiotic idea given what we know now about dna,moelcular biology and also the fact that you speak to yourself.
@ASonOfLiberty1776 .and all atheists are?lol nice. so called self proclaimed geniuses in the public sphere are very often are soft.Its because the real academics,on both side of the arguement, d not waste much of their time debating and publishing feble book after feeble book,so the public doesnt hear from them.Given how idiotic the public like you and i are,it wouldnt matter if they even tried to,
Dinesh is truly amazing, very brilliant, and very well read. Its sad to see only atheistic comments on this video. I used to be an atheist, until I saw Dinesh debate and read his book. He totally won this debate, and I believe all the atheistic comments on here are very subjective, close minded, and untruthful. I know i'll get alot of shit for this comment, but it had to be said....
I carry no brief for D'souza, but, I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
Ultimately, the purpose of religion is not to provide a block on which to build our hate for each other, but just the opposite. Read the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao-Te-Ching, the Bodhicaryavatara, or Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, and you'll understand what religion is intended to be. Expressing a hate for religions, just like a hate for other people, only shows a lack of a willingness to understand, which is what we all owe one another.
@gtroxell39, to point to a small passage of a so called 'holy book", and claim that this passage is the essence of what religion, or even a particular religion, is supposed to be is cherry picking at its best. to see the horrible things in the bible and then point to the sermon on the mount is to be dishonest. that is like reading Mein Kampf, and instead of observing the hatred that is displayed for the Jews, you instead point to the parts that speak of making Germany a strong nation. dishonest
@gtroxell39 I'm one to concede that many people's hate for religion is shallow. Also, that people often lack understanding. As for these texts that call for a reading, well, I say they call for a very CLOSE reading and cross examination. And alertness I might as well add. We cannot permit ourselves to fall dreamily into an uncritical awareness while in our pursuit for the truth. For moralizing, too, isn't what it appears to be on the surface. The depths always repel understanding.
Using historical events to prove the existence of God is unsatisfactory. God, as an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent being (sticking to the traditional conception for consistency) would neither need to act within time, nor influence human action in order to facilitate some desirable end.
"Quite some design and quite some designer" Hitchens scowls. What, if there was a god, then life would be easy? Then Mars and Venus could be teeming with life and we could all drink and party all the time. Atheists use this flawed argument all the time: if God was real, life would be easy. Hence, since life is not easy, there is no god. Hitchens' mother committed suicide. We all go through things in our life that are inexplicably difficult, but God can save you from your pain.
@tpstrat14 .god can not save you from pain.pain happens as a part of life.The idea that there is a personal god who interferes in your life is just idiotic.The idea of a cretaor of the unviserse who doesnt interfere is far fetched but i guess kind of makes sense to your view.
Twas just revealed to me that Hitch writes & edits for VANITY FAIR! My God a FASHION magazine, really Hitch? Man that's disappointing. I'm sure it pays well but what about all the royalties from your books? I'm embarrassed to admit, but that does ruin your cred. a bit. Get well soon (& get a new job : )
Have you ever even read Vanity Fair? Sorry..that was a pointless question, only posed to highlight you disingenuity. You obviously have not, it's a pretty good read and only a portion of it is devoted to Fashion.
From Wiki:
''Vanity Fair is a magazine of pop culture, fashion, and politics published by Condé Nast. The present Vanity Fair has been published since 1983 and there have been editions for four European countries as well as the U.S. edition.''
As for the argument that Stalin, Moa, Hitler etc.. being able to kill more people than the all of the people killed through religious conflicts because the morality of God had bridled them to spare more lives is ridiculous. It is not a question of morality it is a question of killing technology and targets. If there was a more effective way for christians to kill muslims during the crusades they would have. And had there been a higher population there would be more deaths.
@stimulantguy you seem to ignore the Population difference back in the times of the Crusades. Christians do NOT by the words of Christ go and kill enemies. We are to love them unless they threaten our lives. You also don't know what the King of the crusades would do with any nuclear arms if he had access to that tech... I don't completely deny that they'd nuclear, but suggesting that someone might have in the past does one thing, make nations to compete with techological power"
@remieres Christopher Hitchens is the ULTIMATE SHOCK JOCK!!!!!! I love him. More crass than Howard Stern, more British than Noam, more convincing than Rush Limbaugh, more obnoxious than Bill O'Reilly, more captivating than any televangelist & less of a flamer than Anderson Cooper!
Everyone gets BULLIED, all of his opponents go down! Even if he gets cornered he can command his superior articulation to TWIST scientific evidence & come roaring back! - Long live the Hitchslap!!!
@stimulantguy And, I don't even believe that more people have been killed by atheists than by theists. What about the roughly 10 million chinese and other asians slaughtered by Japan all in the name of their emperor who they believed to be God? And Hitler was not an atheist!!! That shit really needs to stop.
@VitalSigns1 If Adolf Hitler were an atheist, would it really matter? He was also also presumably a vegetarian, and I don't hear anyone making the case that vegetarians are somehow predisposed to xenophobia.
@stimulantguy It is as ridiculous an argument as those who blame religion for sex crimes (as if those did not happen in those regimes...) Personal beliefs, so long as they don't encourage harm, should be respected.
D'Souza is full of shit. If the Universe was altered a slightly different amount, we'd simply have a different TYPE of Universe, with a different TYPE of life. He got it into his head that this particular Universe is all perfect, and that if altered in the slightest bit then everything would cease to exist. Well he's wrong. If the Universe were all perfect, how come the some of the scientific constants aren't nice round numbers? Why is gravity 9.8 m/s^2, instead of 10??
@VitalSigns1 It's also flawed in the sense that D'Souza assumes that the physical constants could possibly be different than they are. They wouldn't really be constants if they could, would they?
@Annulable That's another good point. I really think D'Souza is playing the same game every other theist plays, and that is rehashing the same old argument about our supposed "perfect" universe and intelligent design. He never explains HOW the universe is perfect. It clearly isn't. He's being completely intellectually dishonest and draws his conclusion on a faulty premice. There's nothing in our Universe that demands an intelligent designer.
Hm? The Hitch does occasionally let his ego get out of whack, nobody's denying that. But considering how insanely intelligent the man is; I think he has a right. Also it's a pretty impressive that a man who 'Says nothing' was awarded the post of The Worlds Fifth top public intellectual.
Also, he TRIED to segue into Atheism within Marxism and Maoism; he has REPEATEDLY destroyed any and all arguments that they were caused by Atheism, that's why D'Souza wouldn't let him finish.
the title of this video is somewhat misleading since D'Souza is not intellectually or mentally capable of debating HItchens on any level, the dumbass Dinesh is quite literally an ignorant fool who is way out of his (little) league here
oneirishpoet 2 weeks ago
@oneirishpoet You sound like you have a giant Hitchens dick in your mouth LOL.
H1TMANactual 1 week ago
It God just revealed himself and talked with everyone,forced everyone to believe,would we truly have free will?
guilhermefreire48 3 weeks ago
@guilhermefreire48 if god is omnipotent, and created evryone, with the rules that decide if your save or go to hell, then some people get to miss the right religion oups,,,borne in the wrong place and time, well, either way do we have free will, your question make no sence it is a un sophisticated argument some people made long ago, and it is isnt use anymore, as you can see why
lapmarty 1 week ago
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@guilhermefreire48 if god is omnipotent, and created evryone, with the rules that decide if your save or go to hell, then some people get to miss the right religion oups,,,borne in the wrong place and time, well, either way do we have free will, your question make no sence it is a un sophisticated argument some people made long ago, and it is isnt use anymore, as you can see why
lapmarty 1 week ago
@guilhermefreire48 and what if you dont want to live forever, what if you just wanna say to god, well, your plan isnt working for me, he did reveal himself to evryone, and you decide, nah, i dont want this, cause it suck, i know i dont wanna leave forever, it is a stupid human wishfull thinking that takes off values of evrething, cause if evrething is infinite, nothing as values, will god then say oups havent taught of that one, cause then you dont have free will, you dont even have free taught
lapmarty 1 week ago
The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."
guilhermefreire48 3 weeks ago
You cannot reasonably think that God exists, or that the Universe is anthropocentric.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
See ' God says sorry. '
lacontrabasse 3 weeks ago
I like Hitchens a lot (RIP); but, wow! Dinesh seems to have read all of the same books as Hitchens, plus a few on physics and cosmology.
ranger1843 1 month ago
@ranger1843 well if the moron Dinesh DID read any of the same books he is obviously too mentally retarded to understand them, the man is a complete and utter fool/ tool/ whiny asshole bitch who gets Hitchslapped over and over by the superior intellect of Hitchens, moron
oneirishpoet 2 weeks ago
paki defending western-style christianity? :D...i have seen everything now
feyzu66 1 month ago
@feyzu66 You racist fuck.
TheAzureSky1 1 month ago
rare case of Hitchens getting pwned
snickhill 1 month ago
@snickhill of course that only happened in your small mentally retarded brain...the rest of the universe understands what a complete fucking idiot this asshole is, moron
oneirishpoet 2 weeks ago
RIP
syndetonation 1 month ago
Lots of people who base their live son faith not evidence in the comments, in most other debate videos the truth prevails
yomammaabinman 1 month ago
7:10 actually
yomammaabinman 1 month ago
If you hate on dawkins, I hate on you 7:20
yomammaabinman 1 month ago
@yomammaabinman He has it spot on. Dawkins should stick to biology. If the God Delusion isn't the most boring book I have ever read. And I am an agnostic.
H1TMANactual 1 week ago
go back to india dinesh - there's lots of religions there to play with.
sashang0 1 month ago
@sashang0 fuck you
nsshero 1 month ago
Christianity and Islam are two sides of one big ugly evil coin.
ThePseudoBasher 2 months ago
There are a lot of fucking idiots commenting on this page. A LOT.
stratocaster1986able 2 months ago 5
craig lane said it best about hitchens argument about the universe being doomed and all by saying that this is an atheistic view, for god life doesn not end when earth is destroyed but it is only part of it. most of our existance will be in heaven.
KingOCleveland 2 months ago
You see the hopelessness and inhumanity of atheism in the faces and lives of its devotees. We were made and fit by and for God and all attempts to negate that reality lead to misery.
tigerbaiter1 2 months ago
@tigerbaiter1 I'm an atheist and I feel as fine as can be. I don't need to believe in some guy in the sky to be happy.
TheEmitt 2 months ago
D'Souza is spewing alot of bullshit here.
Geography138 2 months ago 6
I like Hitchens for his wit and intelligence but D'Souza won the debate here hands down. His arguments are much stronger and more on target, he is much more articulated. Hitchens arguments seems a bit childish and hafl baked. He also seems a bit intoxicated, which doesn't help. Maybe if he would have been sober he could have done a better job.
zodyce 2 months ago
D'Souza you soldier of Christ!
shaKAZZpeare 3 months ago
Waste of time debating with childish atheists who can't and won't ever face the real issue and change the subject.
randellmd 3 months ago 2
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Amazing argument Long live christianity!
IBfreshTV 3 months ago
god is personal ...only you can experience the holy spirit
TheJasonDR 3 months ago
6:37 lol@ his laugh
dromeasaur 3 months ago
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dromeasaur 3 months ago
3:27 Hitchens turns real fast. WTF?
stratocaster1986able 4 months ago
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stratocaster1986able 4 months ago
i am sorry but i had a copy of that debate but i think, de souza won the debate. bout hitler, you did not hear when mr. de souza stated that mr. hitler hired atheists to kill jews.
aranflewen 4 months ago
Hitchens clearly wins this one.
Derukugi2 4 months ago
Go on Dinesh. Though your forefather left the original belief of your ancestors , yet their genes in you contains respects for whatever faith you have inherited,
Give the descendants of chimps in the form of white-man and their new demigods a good trashing.
mrbignoise1 4 months ago
i wonder if they got like a love hate relationship goin or if they just flat out wanna kill eachother
JerzeeDevil09 4 months ago
The fine tuning argument is a COMPLETE FAILURE. Youve NEVER prooved that everything that appears to be desigend to us is or was infact designed by some sort of designer. Grow up, thats childish thinking. Science ALWAYS has better explanations, but the fearful, ignorant and arrogant still want to find gaps and claim that God is the best explanations. HOW DARE YOU make the claim that BILLIONS of galaxies, TRILLIONS of stars and Billions of solar systems were all desigend so that a
mrabdrum 5 months ago
@mrabdrum species as ignorant, as horrible, as immoral, as greedy as ours can evolve. Lets not forget that more than 99.99...........% of the universe is deadly and doesnt support life. What fine tuning is this? This is not fine tuning. This is trying so desperately to make God an explanation for everything. Look at history and you'll notice that God was always used as the explanation for everything we didnt know about. Example? life. How did life come about? God was the answer for many years,
mrabdrum 5 months ago
@mrabdrum but then Darwin came along and studied life and using science, he explained life in a brilliant theory. There are tons of other cases. So the religious people keep trying to find things that we cant explain and then say "oh look we cant explain this therefore God created/designed it. People, grow up, look at the universe, quit being arrogant. Be happy that stars had to be destroyed so that we can live.
mrabdrum 5 months ago
These are two unrelenting buffoons. I refuse to take sides in this farce. I denounce them both and all those in the audience who laugh mockingly and applaud with animal abandon back and forth at each other like monkeys flinging dung.
Peteromich 5 months ago
d disingenuous d'souza makes my ears itch...
uknichu 5 months ago
@NDayatida One could laugh at the assertions of atheists who say God is a fairy tale all the while convoluting science to fit this fairy tale of a hypothesis called life without a beginning. You are the ones who believe in fairy tales.
quickboat22 5 months ago
Hitchens it a brilliant thinker, but I think he's made a mistake in stereotyping the Nazis as Christian. The Nuremberg trials have proven that Hitler had begun to destroy the Church in Germany in order to replace it with his own State Religion which was easier to control. Also, Hitler's "Positive Christianity" changed the Bible: removed many of Jesus' miracles, claimed that Jesus is an Aryan, etc.
synal 6 months ago
@synal - Which shows there are educated fools (like Hitchens) & people so biased that they just repeat nonsense and shallow 'thinking'. The typical, sloppy Hitler-is-Christian is so easily refuted, he has no excuse.
harry4health 5 months ago
@synal
Hitler wasn't Christian, he was catholic. I was born in Poland and my grandma told me of German nazi soldier coming through town. All wearing a cross on their neck, and it wasn't the nazi cross. American douche bags who think they know European history need to STFU sometimes. To Hitchens and atheists though it makes no difference as starting a new "nazi church" is still a religion making the point that religion sucks once again valid.
LambdaQuarks 5 months ago
@LambdaQuarks So given his disregard for God, in that he's even willing to change the Bible/create his own religion simply to control people, what makes you think that he even believes any of it? And please get your facts right. Hitler invented a religion called "positive Christianity" and then promptly started destroying the Churches in Germany.
synal 5 months ago
@synal
What is the difference? If he invented another religion then simply read my last sentence in my previous post. One religion sucks as much as any other and is just as false. All claims from all religions are on equal ground as they all have equal evidence for their validity, as in none at all.
LambdaQuarks 5 months ago
@LambdaQuarks That is besides the point. I'm not contesting your faith in the non-existence of God. My statement is to contest the stereotyping of Hitler as Christian. There is insufficient evidence to conclusively prove that.
synal 5 months ago
@synal There is more evidence to prove that Hitler was a catholic then there is for the existence of god. Also it isn't faith to say that there is no god, just pure reasonable logic.
LambdaQuarks 5 months ago
@LambdaQuarks Where is your evidence that Hitler was catholic? All you have is faith, because your evidence is in your words, "grandma told me of German nazi soldier coming through town.All wearing a cross on their neck, and it wasn't the nazi cross." How does that prove that Hitler is catholic?! At least my statement is fair. I didnt even claim that he's atheist. All that I said is that it would be a mistake to stereotype him as "Christian"
synal 5 months ago
@synal
I never said he was christian. He says himself he is a catholic in mein kamf. He spared churches and gained their trust. It isn't faith when someone sees something first hand and no one from Europe would claim he wasn't a catholic. Even Catholics say he was one in shame. Maybe you should do some research first, as if pictures with catholic priests waving together wouldn't be enough? Its physical evidence. By the way, I honestly couldn't care less which way he went. Religious he was.
LambdaQuarks 5 months ago
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@LambdaQuarks The Nuremberg trials have proven that Hitler had begun to destroy the Church in Germany in order to replace it with his own State Religion which was easier to control. Also, Hitler's "Positive Christianity" changed the Bible: removed many of Jesus' miracles, claimed that Jesus is an Aryan, etc.
synal 5 months ago
@synal Hitler was a catholic. "God on our side" was written on every belt buckle of every nazi soldier. Plus, he is quotes a ton of times claiming that what he does is in the name of the LORD.
mrabdrum 4 months ago
@mrabdrum That's true, but I really don't think that we should trust the words of a politician trying to appeal to a christian country. He hardly attended Church, he got his chief Nazi ideologue, Rosenberg, to invent the National Church system to destroy Christianity(point 18. The National Church will clear away from its altars all crucifixes, Bible and pictures of saints.) and to return Germany to Paganism. Hitler's positive Chrisianity claimed Jesus to be an Aryan, removed many miracles.
synal 4 months ago
@mrabdrum Then why did he negate the catholic sacrament of marriage by forcing the SS officers to "re-marry" in the SS custom? Why did Nazi propaganda show videos of stained glass windows being broken only to reveal a swastika in the background? Why did Hitler praise northern mythologies, the northern gods and believed in aryan race, all of which have nothing to do with Catholicism but are considered highly pagan? Hitler's views on Christianity are well documented, you're just plain ignorant.
Dodo251 4 months ago
@Dodo251 Sir, Hitler has countless amounts of quotes claiming that what he did was the LORDS will, and on EVERY belt buckle of every Nazi soldier it said God on our side. I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU CALL THIS, BUT ITS NOT ATHEISM.
mrabdrum 4 months ago
@mrabdrum Go read a few books and stop using the same old argument. Germany's populace at the time was mostly Christian and he knew full well how to gain their support. Politicians have their ways of deceiving the public, as is well observable throughout the history. By the way, documents revealing Hitler's true intentions with Christianity (as well as his loathful comments) were released so get educated.
Dodo251 4 months ago
@Dodo251 Yea yea yea the same typical crap I hear all the time. People who do bad are not true Christians... And people who do good are true Christians. This bullshit has to stop son. Don't tell me to get educated because I am educated. I made all A's throughout my highschool years. Hitler claimed he believed in God, and used God to justify his retarded actions. Every soldier had to wear a buckle that said God on our Side. Again, whatever this is, its not Atheism.
mrabdrum 4 months ago
@Dodo251 Yea yea yea the same typical crap I hear all the time. People who do bad are not true Christians... And people who do good are true Christians. This bullshit has to stop son. Don't tell me to get educated because I am educated. I made all A's throughout my highschool years. Hitler claimed he believed in God, and used God to justify his retarded actions. Every soldier had to wear a buckle that said God on our Side. Again, whatever this is, its not Atheism.
mrabdrum 4 months ago
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@Dodo251 Yea yea yea the same typical crap I hear all the time. People who do bad are not true Christians.. And people who do good are true Christians. This bullshit has to stop son. Don't tell me to get educated because I am educated. I made all A's throughout my highschool years. Hitler claimed he believed in God, and used God to justify his retarded actions. Every soldier had to wear a buckle that said God on our Side. Again, whatever this is, its not Atheism.
mrabdrum 4 months ago
@mrabdrum Hitler was a Black Sun worshiper.An occultist sicko.His imaginary god has nothing to do with the real God.
guilhermefreire48 3 months ago 15
@guilhermefreire48 LOL? "The real God"? Which one would that be? Zeus, Thor, Jesus ,Allah, Mythra, or one of the other thousands of mythical gods? Hitler believed in a God, therefore he was not an Atheist. An Atheist is a person WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.
mrabdrum 3 months ago
@mrabdrum An occultist is far from a christian for exemple.What we christians mean by God is the whole existence,the whole structure of reality.Omnipotence,omnipresence,eternity.The most simple and perfect immaterial being.Not some silly thing like Thor,or a Black Sun.
guilhermefreire48 3 months ago 24
@guilhermefreire48 Well, the argument was whether or not Hitler was an Atheist. I don't care which God he believed in. The fact is that he did believe that he had devine authority to do what he did. From that fact, it follows that he was not an Atheist.
mrabdrum 3 months ago
@guilhermefreire48 no imbecile, Thor is the exact same thing, an imaginary being conjured up by those weak of mind who lack the ability or patience to understand the things that are incomprehensible. Your god, your jesus, why exactly are those stories from 2000 years ago valid in you mind as opposed to the stories of the quran, or the rigveda? Fool, it's amazing how there are so many idiots in this world that are too retarded too think lmao
itsanawesomeguy 3 months ago
@itsanawesomeguy Imbecile?Can't you see how hateful you are?Sadly you can't tell waht is good and what is bad anymore.
guilhermefreire48 3 months ago 6
@guilhermefreire48 lmfao, every christian idiot,who is too feeble-minded to see the truth in their deluded can't take one little insult, and at least I had a reason to call you that dumbass, your response is just a waste of time..just admit you're an idiot, I gave valid points, and you did nothing to rebuke them but pick on a little tidbit that really has nothing to do with the main point
itsanawesomeguy 3 months ago
@guilhermefreire48 They're all silly! It's the same claim branded with a different label, YHWH and Jesus.
khoops66 2 months ago
@guilhermefreire48 "The most simple and perfect immaterial being.Not some silly thing like Thor,or a Black Sun."
HAHAHAHAAH
SiriusMined 1 month ago
@guilhermefreire48 Your immaterial omnipotent being is silly. If you are christian then you believe in the old and new testament correct? Why would such a powerful being not protect children from slavery? Your so called holy book tells you how to treat your slaves and even mentions that you can beat them as long as they survive. If you dont like that and cherry pick your bible then you are a heretic in your own faith because you are not obeying the word of god
eddyg545 1 month ago
@eddyg545 Understanding the Bible is not as simple as some fundamentalists would like us to believe.For instance slave also meant he who obeys a King.You also need to understand that the Bible has a lot of allegories,Jesus for exemple often spoke in parables.In Isaiah we read about violently killing the children of the enemy,it takes a second look to realize that the enemy is evil personified and that his children are the sins.
guilhermefreire48 3 weeks ago
@eddyg545 Plato's Cavern is a myth just like the parable of the Leaven tolf by Jesus, but we can actually lean much about reality from both can't we? You shouldn't mistake every christian for a fundamentalist. If even St. Aquinas and Saint Agustine made mistakes how could we understand the Bible by reading it partially and just once?
guilhermefreire48 3 weeks ago
@guilhermefreire48 to you thor might sound silly,because you are indoctrinated in christianity, christianity for me look as silly as for you thor is looking, lets face it, one got a hammer, the other send his son, to be sacrifice for the sin of other, wich he couldve just forgive, since he is omnipotente, but really he send himself, cause he is the same person, and the notion that evryone has to pay the price, for something only inddividual did is a stupid one, plus adam and eve is a mythe,
lapmarty 1 week ago
@lapmarty Look in the end you'll have to choose between being a servant in heaven,or revolting against the structure of reality. Accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and God's forgiveness or not. It's your call.
guilhermefreire48 1 week ago
@lapmarty There are some books I recommend to all people with serious doubts: Orthodoxy and The Everlanting Man - Chesterton,The Abolition of Man and Miracles - C.S Lewis, The Idiot - Dostoyevsky, Mystics & Miracles - Bert Ghezzi, Pensees - Pascal, Nearer, My God - William F. Buckley Jr., Socrates Meets Jesus - Peter Kreeft
I believe it's almost impossible to read these books and remain an atheist.
guilhermefreire48 1 week ago
@guilhermefreire48 Iv read 3 in your list, and i dont consider myself a pure atheist as i am open to a god we could callled einstein god, one that dont inetervene in human affair, and didnt have special plan obviously for us,
i think otherwise we are just re-doing the same mistake again,to think that we are the center of the universe once more, wich everytime we did, we were proven wrong,
and lately all research pointed out at a multiverse, wich again, put us really really far from teh center
lapmarty 1 week ago
@lapmarty So you don't deny God, just christianity. I must say that the life of Jesus Christ is very well documented, his followers called him the son of God, his adversaries called him a mage. Why not trust the man who said "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"
guilhermefreire48 1 week ago
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guilhermefreire48 1 week ago
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@lapmarty Doesn't christian tradition also remind us of how little we are? Isn't humility a cadinal virtue? Tolkien didn't choose a hobbit to carry the ring out of nothing. "Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. "Matthew 19:14
guilhermefreire48 1 week ago
@lapmarty "inetervene in human affair, and didnt have special plan obviously for us" I also have to diagree with that, as Eistein said "God doesn't play dice", creation happened for a reason, even the smallest things have meaning, otherwise we would end up with the old Gnostic illusion of the evil god.
guilhermefreire48 1 week ago
@guilhermefreire48 einstein has been proven wrong about mecanic quantic, and ``god is reallt playing dice`` mecanic quantic is the most succesfull theory of all time, it has been proven to be amazingly accurate, in fact your using a computer now, build on this discovery,
you have a old anthopocentric reflex, any god worth having, would have done it with a greater sheme in mind, then a primitive primate species in one tiny corner of the universe,
the universe dont need us, get over it
lapmarty 1 week ago
@lapmarty Being at the spiritual center is not being in the material center of the universe. Our lives still have meaning, we are not cosmic dust, we have souls. Love, sacrifice, hope, trust... All humans grasp a glimpse of the cosmic order's intent,even being so little we can feel it.
guilhermefreire48 1 week ago 2
@guilhermefreire48 You do realize that Hitler was a Christian right?
TheEmitt 2 months ago
@TheEmitt Hitler created a fake christ and distributed a fake bible.He said the jewish christ was a lie and tried to intitute a fake idol.In a christian country it had to be done for the nazi propaganda to work.That is hardly true christianity.
guilhermefreire48 2 months ago 7
@guilhermefreire48 Your argument is full of holes much like your contention that the moon is made of swiss cheese.
Seigu007 2 months ago
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noshabibis 2 months ago
@guilhermefreire48 and which one is the "REAL" god? If you answer, wheres the proof so it can be the "REAL" god?
noshabibis 2 months ago
@noshabibis God is everywhere, if you open your eyes and heart for a second you will see. Look at a tree,the skies, the sun, and see the beauty of his work.
Pray, and you will see that he answers through the happenings of your life.
guilhermefreire48 2 months ago 6
@guilhermefreire48 Uhhhhh yeah i can pray to a huge rat and say that he created everything. Looks like you skipped Biology and other Science classes during your high school years.
noshabibis 2 months ago
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guilhermefreire48 2 months ago
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@noshabibis There is just one little problem.When you say rat you mean a material being, no one here is defining God as a material being.
Flying Spaguetti,huge rat...those are all linked to images of material things.So they have cannot describe omnipotence,omnipresence,eternity, and etc. Looks like you skipped all you philosophy classes.
guilhermefreire48 2 months ago 10
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guilhermefreire48 2 months ago
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@noshabibis The personal relationship with God is the biggest proof, if you still need another one here it is: 1- Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence; 2- The universe has a beginning of its existence; Therefore: 3- The universe has a cause of its existence. 4- If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God; Therefore: 5- God exists.
guilhermefreire48 2 months ago 9
wait so Hitchens is saying that he believes there is no God because God surely would have made more than one planet with sustainable life. what an argument way to go you fucking idiot
JMLizardKing1971 6 months ago
@JMLizardKing1971
he's arguing that it must be an idiotic and wasteful god. he goes on to say that even on this planet extinction is the norm rather than the exception. he mistakenly says the sun will boil up into a red dwarf. it won't. it will expand in to a red giant and engulf the earth
halcyondaze82 5 months ago
wait... atheists are still around? when will those people evolve? it's been millions of years already!!
wirechair 6 months ago
@NDayatida
Atheists have the hedge on smarts? That literally made me "LOL". Atheism can't explain why anything philosophical or moral exists, and yet they claim to have the hedge on smarts? Try watching "Collision" or read Doug Wilson's responses to Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Chris Hitchens. Try watching Greg Bahnsen demolish Ben Stein, or James White putting the intellectual smackdown on David Silverman. At least Christians don't deny the obvious...
ASonOfLiberty1776 6 months ago
Hitchens' answer to the question of a fine-tuned unvierse without a fine-tuner was to deny the value of life (which sadly got a laugh), but his answer only served to support D'Souza's point that historically the greatest destroyer of human life has not been religion, but atheism which, as D'Souza pointed out, in a philosophy where there is no God, life has no value and mass murder is permitted.
Deborah8050 6 months ago
@Deborah8050 . Even if atheism permits mass murder, i'd be an atheist if it offers the truth. But incidently I have been an atheist since school and I haven't killed anyone.
screenflicker1 6 months ago
It's funny reading comments by people posting here, ridiculing D'Souza and his supporters, and making fun of the supporters ignorance of science and even their grammar, when their own posts are FULL of grammatical mistakes and their knowledge of science and physics is apparently non-existent! I'll tell you what: Go Google "the Brain and Quantum non-locality" or even "statistical probability of the Big Bang resulting in life" and then come back and make your posts, geniuses!
chkray 6 months ago
I like Dinesh. He's quick on his feet and makes a good point in defense of faith.
danielsnelen 7 months ago
Dinesh is no more than an opportunistic shithead who is riding the crest of American religious fervor and minting money off it. I dislike him, because he acts so sure of himself only to try to impress millions of brainwashed Americans.
ib422000 7 months ago
@ib422000 and hitchens does what exactly? They both support what side they are on equally. A debate is a debate, you don't have to agree with the person you aren't supporting, yanno?
JennayyyCx3 5 months ago
@JennayyyCx3
A debate gives you the information needed to take a position..not be wishy washy.
I stand by my view of Dinesh....he got the whiff of money to be made by being a fundamentalist in America, and caught the wave.
Hitchens has made his point very convincingly..Dinesh whines.
ib422000 5 months ago
I love how souza gets destroyed by the public!
HAHAHA
retonete 7 months ago
Hitchens has a problem not just with religion, but with facts, he always qoutes other "scientists" and avoids physics and other evidence. They fear authority, and appeal to the human selfishness and unwillingness to be "constrained" to a moral authority. If proved beyond a reasonable doubt, they still would argue pointness facts that require as much faith as a believer.
76infidel 7 months ago
Go back to your own "Uniwerse".
cloudanu 7 months ago
I hate when religious people use big words and dont know what they are saying.
lilsm555 7 months ago
why did Mr. de souza converted to evangelical christianity? just asking.
aranflewen 7 months ago
@aranflewen Probably because hes weak minded and needed purpose in his life in other interviews he keeps saying it gives purpose to life so that must be it.
lilsm555 7 months ago
@lilsm555 WHAT KIND OF WEAK MINDED ARE YOU SAYING? PLEASE CLARIFY IT TO ME, OK?
aranflewen 7 months ago
@aranflewen Hes unnable to accept new information and leave the old useless information behind maybe because he was taught growing up it was the truth. Most religious people fear death they cant accept dying and not existing so they turn to religion or stick with religion, those are the people who cant man up to reality so they believe in a fairy tale.
lilsm555 7 months ago
@lilsm555 excuse me, my query implies on his religious affiliation switch. I am not yet on the mode of interacting about atheism so please, be clear enough to read the words I stated ok? you better try to listen before declaring hasty generalizations.
aranflewen 7 months ago
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lilsm555 7 months ago
@aranflewen LOL! you asked me what kind of weak minded are you saying? which doesnt make sense obviously if you have been to 1st grade english you would know that and i answered. If you have a problem with what i said IDC the truth hurts, deal with reality and grow up.
lilsm555 7 months ago
Hitchens has an idea of how the universe should be constructed- he doesn't like the present architecture. He also has an idea of the way regimes should conduct themselves- He doesn't like certain ones. Why should we care what he thinks? Maybe I like the universe. Maybe I like Catholic Fascism. Is he the standard or is God? He has no argument; just a bunch of flowery words and moral sentiments. How much better to accept your creator and live accordingly. "Oh how I love thy law".
barbourjohn 7 months ago 2
@barbourjohn with your logic we could justify Hitler's Germany. Job well done.
TheCaptianKirk 7 months ago
This debate got off track. D'Souza mentions the fine tuning of the universe and then Hitchens doesn't like the person who fine tuned it. In essence says he could do better. Just hubris.
barbourjohn 7 months ago
@barbourjohn You're a bit off John. Hitchens is simply saying that D'Souza "evidence" for God is contradictory. D'Souza is saying god is a married bachelor and Hitchens is demonstrating how such a definition does not make sense.
TheCaptianKirk 7 months ago
The Hitch! He is God!
tubingtheworld 7 months ago
"If God does not exist, then everything is permissible."
Simply wrong Dinesh. More like "If God exists, then everything is permissible." Because if there is a God, and if he tells a groups believers to kill a group of infidels (like he did several times in the OT), then the believers cannot oppose him. If there is a God who makes all the rules in the universe, then, because he is the rule maker, he is allowed to make any rule he wants. Anything goes, according to him.
TheCaptianKirk 7 months ago
@TheCaptianKirk True, God can make any rule He wants. I wonder why He keeps you alive? Maybe it's because He is a God of love and mercy. Maybe God had a purpose in the Old Testament. Perhaps it had something to do with preparing the world for a Savior. Maybe our first parents actually rebelled against a God who made everything good. Maybe God even used this to bring about a better purpose by showing us His mercy. Maybe He set his followers free in order to love and heal.
barbourjohn 7 months ago
@barbourjohn
“God can make any rule He wants”
So you agree with me that with God everything is permissible?
“I wonder why He keeps you alive?”
Same reason why Zeus keeps me alive.
“Maybe our first parents actually rebelled against a God who made everything good”
He didn't make everything good. He created evil.
“He is a God of love and mercy”
I disagree. He condones slavery and human sacrifice. He encourages murder and genital mutilation. This is a deplorable god. Not a god of love.
TheCaptianKirk 7 months ago
Dinesh, you've been Hitchslaped. The sick part is you don't even recognise it. It's sad that Dinesh was given the last word in the video, because even I can refute that lame argument.
amnt2more 7 months ago
@amnt2more I'd be interested in hearing your refutation. Also, how exactly was he "hitch-slapped" in this video? I didn't recognize it either.
OmegaTep 6 months ago
nobody wants to hear what you have to say, dinesh
nicky2coats 7 months ago
Thank you for posting this, tothesource1.
writersblock26 7 months ago
christopher hitchens is a terrible debater. he soaks up so much time saying nothing.
chris11sholtz 7 months ago
This is like watching two blind men debate a painting. Their grasp of physics is what you'd get from watching a single programme about space - and then beating your head on a table to get rid of half of it. At least Hitchens acknowledges that. D'Souza's argument that Darwinism doesn't explain why (say) gravity is "perfectly calibrated" for life on Earth is so stupid it boggles the mind: life on Earth has evolved to fit that calibration of gravity, not the other way around.
QuasiGood 7 months ago
Love how Atheists always point out stuff like "The Vatican ordered Hitler's birthday to be celebrated in every church under his regime" Because if they had done the opposite, the SS would have taken that so welll.....
Rensune 8 months ago
Argh I want to believe in God but I just can't- to answer D'Souza's question for every Earth that succeeds in developing life there are an infinitesimal amount of planets which DON'T for the exact parameters he said. If we looked hard enough I'm sure we could find other intelligent life in the universe.
JermzzzyFTW 8 months ago
THis man did not ask a question, Hitchens is a fool.
Alaric1213 8 months ago
D'Souza does as good as he could, but he argues from a bad premise. the Roman Catholic Church is beyond defending when it comes to fascism, and other tyrannies. Doug Wilson did a MUCH better job and showed up Hitchens for the lightweight that he is (and all atheists are).
ASonOfLiberty1776 8 months ago
@ASonOfLiberty1776 .lol all atheists are?religion is meaningless.You were born into whatever religion oyu are by chance.lolmm now i know immjust a stupid atheist but yet no once in the public sphere of so called academics has given even a remotely good answer against that.The diea of a personal god who interferes in your life is an eqaulyl idiotic idea given what we know now about dna,moelcular biology and also the fact that you speak to yourself.
laudrup90 7 months ago
@ASonOfLiberty1776 .and all atheists are?lol nice. so called self proclaimed geniuses in the public sphere are very often are soft.Its because the real academics,on both side of the arguement, d not waste much of their time debating and publishing feble book after feeble book,so the public doesnt hear from them.Given how idiotic the public like you and i are,it wouldnt matter if they even tried to,
laudrup90 7 months ago
Dinesh is truly amazing, very brilliant, and very well read. Its sad to see only atheistic comments on this video. I used to be an atheist, until I saw Dinesh debate and read his book. He totally won this debate, and I believe all the atheistic comments on here are very subjective, close minded, and untruthful. I know i'll get alot of shit for this comment, but it had to be said....
JohnLions 8 months ago
i love hitchens, but he didn't let D'Souza embarrass himself
felipealvarez1982 8 months ago
I carry no brief for D'souza, but, I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general atheistic social perspectives
shieldsff 8 months ago
Ultimately, the purpose of religion is not to provide a block on which to build our hate for each other, but just the opposite. Read the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao-Te-Ching, the Bodhicaryavatara, or Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, and you'll understand what religion is intended to be. Expressing a hate for religions, just like a hate for other people, only shows a lack of a willingness to understand, which is what we all owe one another.
gtroxell39 8 months ago 22
@gtroxell39, to point to a small passage of a so called 'holy book", and claim that this passage is the essence of what religion, or even a particular religion, is supposed to be is cherry picking at its best. to see the horrible things in the bible and then point to the sermon on the mount is to be dishonest. that is like reading Mein Kampf, and instead of observing the hatred that is displayed for the Jews, you instead point to the parts that speak of making Germany a strong nation. dishonest
vicmackey2008 7 months ago
@gtroxell39 I'm one to concede that many people's hate for religion is shallow. Also, that people often lack understanding. As for these texts that call for a reading, well, I say they call for a very CLOSE reading and cross examination. And alertness I might as well add. We cannot permit ourselves to fall dreamily into an uncritical awareness while in our pursuit for the truth. For moralizing, too, isn't what it appears to be on the surface. The depths always repel understanding.
Peteromich 5 months ago
Using historical events to prove the existence of God is unsatisfactory. God, as an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent being (sticking to the traditional conception for consistency) would neither need to act within time, nor influence human action in order to facilitate some desirable end.
gtroxell39 8 months ago
D'Souza's argument from incredulity and his blithe comments about his magic sky father are incredibly irritating. Hitchens wins this debate with ease
viletree 8 months ago
"Quite some design and quite some designer" Hitchens scowls. What, if there was a god, then life would be easy? Then Mars and Venus could be teeming with life and we could all drink and party all the time. Atheists use this flawed argument all the time: if God was real, life would be easy. Hence, since life is not easy, there is no god. Hitchens' mother committed suicide. We all go through things in our life that are inexplicably difficult, but God can save you from your pain.
tpstrat14 8 months ago
@tpstrat14 .god can not save you from pain.pain happens as a part of life.The idea that there is a personal god who interferes in your life is just idiotic.The idea of a cretaor of the unviserse who doesnt interfere is far fetched but i guess kind of makes sense to your view.
laudrup90 7 months ago
Fine tuned Universe? Mmm just shows how stupid these nutjobs are.
jgsouter 8 months ago
@VitalSigns1 Nobody ever dose. What he said about Stalin and Marxist was intresting.
8496ricko 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Twas just revealed to me that Hitch writes & edits for VANITY FAIR! My God a FASHION magazine, really Hitch? Man that's disappointing. I'm sure it pays well but what about all the royalties from your books? I'm embarrassed to admit, but that does ruin your cred. a bit. Get well soon (& get a new job : )
timjdong 9 months ago 3
@timjdong
Have you ever even read Vanity Fair? Sorry..that was a pointless question, only posed to highlight you disingenuity. You obviously have not, it's a pretty good read and only a portion of it is devoted to Fashion.
From Wiki:
''Vanity Fair is a magazine of pop culture, fashion, and politics published by Condé Nast. The present Vanity Fair has been published since 1983 and there have been editions for four European countries as well as the U.S. edition.''
BelfastAtheist 8 months ago
I still overall agree with hitchens but nevertheless Dinesh dose make a good point
8496ricko 9 months ago
@8496ricko No, he really doesn't. I don't see how anything that he says is a good argument for the existence of God.
VitalSigns1 9 months ago
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Exlemic 9 months ago
Wow, it takes real ignorance to call Dinesh a Catholic. If you were truly wise you would know your "enemies" more.
daev2009 9 months ago
As for the argument that Stalin, Moa, Hitler etc.. being able to kill more people than the all of the people killed through religious conflicts because the morality of God had bridled them to spare more lives is ridiculous. It is not a question of morality it is a question of killing technology and targets. If there was a more effective way for christians to kill muslims during the crusades they would have. And had there been a higher population there would be more deaths.
stimulantguy 10 months ago
@stimulantguy you seem to ignore the Population difference back in the times of the Crusades. Christians do NOT by the words of Christ go and kill enemies. We are to love them unless they threaten our lives. You also don't know what the King of the crusades would do with any nuclear arms if he had access to that tech... I don't completely deny that they'd nuclear, but suggesting that someone might have in the past does one thing, make nations to compete with techological power"
remieres 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@remieres Christopher Hitchens is the ULTIMATE SHOCK JOCK!!!!!! I love him. More crass than Howard Stern, more British than Noam, more convincing than Rush Limbaugh, more obnoxious than Bill O'Reilly, more captivating than any televangelist & less of a flamer than Anderson Cooper!
Everyone gets BULLIED, all of his opponents go down! Even if he gets cornered he can command his superior articulation to TWIST scientific evidence & come roaring back! - Long live the Hitchslap!!!
Idahoprospector 9 months ago
@stimulantguy And, I don't even believe that more people have been killed by atheists than by theists. What about the roughly 10 million chinese and other asians slaughtered by Japan all in the name of their emperor who they believed to be God? And Hitler was not an atheist!!! That shit really needs to stop.
VitalSigns1 9 months ago
@VitalSigns1 If Adolf Hitler were an atheist, would it really matter? He was also also presumably a vegetarian, and I don't hear anyone making the case that vegetarians are somehow predisposed to xenophobia.
writersblock26 9 months ago
@writersblock26 good job watching Colbert
ArseneIncubus 8 months ago
@stimulantguy Ignorance can abound no matter what you say you believe or don't believe. This argument is stupid...
tpstrat14 8 months ago
@stimulantguy It is as ridiculous an argument as those who blame religion for sex crimes (as if those did not happen in those regimes...) Personal beliefs, so long as they don't encourage harm, should be respected.
Rensune 8 months ago
@Rensune Well, rape predated all the monotheisms and probably the animist religions, too.
writersblock26 7 months ago
D'Souza is full of shit. If the Universe was altered a slightly different amount, we'd simply have a different TYPE of Universe, with a different TYPE of life. He got it into his head that this particular Universe is all perfect, and that if altered in the slightest bit then everything would cease to exist. Well he's wrong. If the Universe were all perfect, how come the some of the scientific constants aren't nice round numbers? Why is gravity 9.8 m/s^2, instead of 10??
VitalSigns1 10 months ago
@VitalSigns1 It's also flawed in the sense that D'Souza assumes that the physical constants could possibly be different than they are. They wouldn't really be constants if they could, would they?
Annulable 9 months ago
@Annulable That's another good point. I really think D'Souza is playing the same game every other theist plays, and that is rehashing the same old argument about our supposed "perfect" universe and intelligent design. He never explains HOW the universe is perfect. It clearly isn't. He's being completely intellectually dishonest and draws his conclusion on a faulty premice. There's nothing in our Universe that demands an intelligent designer.
VitalSigns1 9 months ago
Christopher Hichens is soo full of himself, he goes on and on, saying nothing. Dinsesh kicked his ass.
TRAC4US 10 months ago
@TRAC4US
Hm? The Hitch does occasionally let his ego get out of whack, nobody's denying that. But considering how insanely intelligent the man is; I think he has a right. Also it's a pretty impressive that a man who 'Says nothing' was awarded the post of The Worlds Fifth top public intellectual.
Also, he TRIED to segue into Atheism within Marxism and Maoism; he has REPEATEDLY destroyed any and all arguments that they were caused by Atheism, that's why D'Souza wouldn't let him finish.