I'm a fan of Arvo Pärt, I'm aware of all those theorizations about what is Art (I'm a Visual Artist) and I have to praise Schoenberg's works, he was an artist such as Duchamp with his Fountain. You can see a lot of influence from Schoenberg on early Arvo Pärt's works, but since Schoenberg was able to 'not follow the rules' in some situations, Pärt was too. Arvo Pärt mastered working with resonance between pairs of notes, that what touches me emotionally, but I still praise Schoenberg's works.
@gilbertoagostinho I think higher resolution means three things: (1) get rid of the static in the sound; (2) make the visual clearer, perhaps you can only show part of the page at a time in order to make your points; (3) put some explanatory words to help the viewer understand what your chart is all about. This looks like it might be interesting, but it is unintelligible at this point. I anxiously await your improvements. Thanks.
This is what all music should aim for. I feel that most music, even good academic music, gets lost in the complexities. But Arvo Part's music has an arch that is equally strong from the beginning to the end. It has a conducting line that leads you. It has a focus that gives it immense emotional power.
I'm from Istanbul-Turkey... "Hezarfen Ensemble" play this masterpieces for us in "Borusan Music House" in Taksim-Istanbul 01.16.2010... This is the art of music... It was amazing... .. ... .. . .. . Close your eyes, think positive ideas and listen...You will clean your brain for a better life...
You can't discredit twelve-tone music without fully understanding it and the compositional process behind it. Schoenberg was a musical genius who pushed the limits of the interpretation of what was acceptable musically and developed many new compositional techniques that have resulted in vast developments in 20th century composition. Learn to respect genius whether you like it or not.
Are you able to suggest a web site to help me to learn about twelve-tone music? It would be beneficial to hear examples of the music as they refer to it. I looked it up on Wikipedia and with my 8th grade glee club understanding of music (with a super teacher) I am lost with the write up. I need "Twelve-tone for Dummies" :-)
Schoenberg was certainly not a faud. And Part will be one of many interesting composers of the present. I don`t think for a second he is any Bach, or Handel or !!!!!
Schöneberg´s music will be remembered as a curiosity - though i think that he was no fraud but was led astray by the intellectual vanity of idealism - in the sense of replacing thought, experience and sensibility with an "idea" - which was THE essential catastrophy of civilization in the 20th century.
When i first heard Pärt in the 80s my tears were partly ones of relief: This is the real thing.
@stuartk20 yes it is !!! and it seems we are some, not to understand what this analyzis is and mean :)) Arvo part music is one of the most constructed but the one which needs the less brain, the more heart.
Well, taking into account that this work was made following Schoemberg and Wienn school techniques, I think that you should re-consider your thoughts about Schoemberg. And also, you should listen to first Schoemberg works and first Arvo Part works, to get surprised.
the video ends before the piece is over... I want to see/hear the rest... It was so beautiful to read AND hear at the same time, like a very good book to read.
Hi Seymour! No, it is a kind of reduction of main melodic material. I aims to show that Part´s music is completly determinated, a true algorithm... although yet all emotive and beautiful. Kind of "mathematics as art"... :)
Indeed, Pärt's music is intensely mathematical. Yet it doesn't sound like Schoenberg (who is also very mathematical), in a way that Pärt's music is much more accessible.
I see maths as art too =P But this is like art + art! Art squared? lol
It's because Schoenberg was not even close to being an artist, he was a fraud. Whereas Part is at the same level as Bach, period. You can thumb down me as many times as you want, but darn it; Part is music, Schoenberg is shit.
I can. For example, I just did in my previous comment. And time did not stop, G-d did not strike me down, nor a dog bit me. And in fact, even if I do more terrible things than defining what's music based on personal preference, nothing in the world will happen. Ok, maybe some disapproving comments or thumb downs. But I still can and will.
No, you can't, and not because it is morally wrong, but because it is logically incorrect. "Definition" is a concept that has no meaning outside of the domain of logic, so the moment you use it, you are binding yourself to the laws of logic. By the laws of logic, "music" is defined *for* you, not by you. Much as people may hate gangsta rap or noise music or 12-tone music, that does not stop any of those genres from falling under the "music" definition.
Yes, in fact, he can. Definitions create signifigance. If enough members of a language community agree on a definition then it's right. This agreement indeed can involve the individual's agreement or refusal thereto and need not merely be handed to them. That is, it can be at least partly by them and not merely for them. Moreover, there's no agreement regarding how many community members is "enough". It might take only one. "Music" is a case in point of no agreement or no definition.
Clearly, you have no acquaintance with Heidegger, therefore you are in no position to argue the definition of "the"..........(smile) I see here lots of small weeines, and let's face it, if you have much of a sense of power in the real world, you ain't gonna be here arguing fine points. That being said, NO classical video may exist here without some dick trying to gain a sense of personal relevance by giving it a negative critique. It is a law of the universe.
@parazsdavid You can't define what is (art) music and what's not based on personal preferences. "Each artistic medium should seek that which makes it unique among the possible mediums and then purify itself of anything other than expression of its own uniqueness as a form. - Clement Greenberg". Art ask questions about itself, it's own history, art is autonomous. Even today with the raise of "ignorant art" they're dialogging with art history. [PS: You can do that with pop (cultural) music]
Saying Schoenberg is bad just makes you look foolish to everyone that is respected musically. So you discredit yourself by saying it. Just something to consider in the future if you want anyone to listen to you.
Of course Schoenberg is not bad, but "twelve tones composition" was not a very good idea. Very vaguely formulated by Schoenberg, it generated a set of very limiting, and rather incomprehensible, "languages" that contributed a big deal to the marginalization of classical music.
"...contributed a big deal to the marginalization of classical music." Really? What do you base this on? (Not asking to be an arsehole - I'm legitimately interested.)
Combine 12 tones with a idiom full of abrupt changes, sudden ppp and fff, strident clashes of sound ... you know: the bread an butter of "new" music, and the result is under everybody's eyes: empty concert halls.
Se essa "Análise gráfica" faz sentido pra você, seria legal compartilhar como ela faz sentido pra você.
LeoSupimpa 11 months ago
Hola!! Soy músico argentino. Estoy haciendo un análisis de esta obra. Necesitaría saber si me puedes conseguir esta partitura. Muchas gracias!!
Juansantiagoo 1 year ago
I'm a fan of Arvo Pärt, I'm aware of all those theorizations about what is Art (I'm a Visual Artist) and I have to praise Schoenberg's works, he was an artist such as Duchamp with his Fountain. You can see a lot of influence from Schoenberg on early Arvo Pärt's works, but since Schoenberg was able to 'not follow the rules' in some situations, Pärt was too. Arvo Pärt mastered working with resonance between pairs of notes, that what touches me emotionally, but I still praise Schoenberg's works.
sergioh91 1 year ago
Some Higher Resolution wouldn't hurt, right?
gilbertoagostinho 1 year ago 4
@gilbertoagostinho Yes, I need to do this...
didgig 1 year ago
Comment removed
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@gilbertoagostinho I think higher resolution means three things: (1) get rid of the static in the sound; (2) make the visual clearer, perhaps you can only show part of the page at a time in order to make your points; (3) put some explanatory words to help the viewer understand what your chart is all about. This looks like it might be interesting, but it is unintelligible at this point. I anxiously await your improvements. Thanks.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
This is what all music should aim for. I feel that most music, even good academic music, gets lost in the complexities. But Arvo Part's music has an arch that is equally strong from the beginning to the end. It has a conducting line that leads you. It has a focus that gives it immense emotional power.
mrpossibilities 1 year ago 2
@mrpossibilities I agree completely - the focus never wavers from the emotional thread
fargarden 1 year ago
Thank you!
sophryu 1 year ago
this is some of the best modern music ever composed
milangeorg 1 year ago 3
I don't like... for example
koan74 1 year ago
nyc11104...totally agree with you
Nicolette57 2 years ago
I'm from Istanbul-Turkey... "Hezarfen Ensemble" play this masterpieces for us in "Borusan Music House" in Taksim-Istanbul 01.16.2010... This is the art of music... It was amazing... .. ... .. . .. . Close your eyes, think positive ideas and listen...You will clean your brain for a better life...
meliktas1980 2 years ago 2
Eloquent words for a radiant and essential media for the human condition and in which to understand ourselves and the transcendent.
bizintin 2 years ago
How can one not like this music?
cephalicus 2 years ago
Amusia?
RaRaLandEQ 2 years ago
Comment removed
cephalicus 2 years ago
I can't put my finger on it, it just sounds so pure, evokes something I can't quite grasp but I know is beautiful...
SingHouse 2 years ago
Beautifully stated. I enjoy when someone has the ability to express feelings I share in a way that is truth.
bizintin 2 years ago
likewise buddy.
SingHouse 2 years ago
This sounds like music I've heard in a documentary on Auschwitz or some other concentration camp. Sure does fit the mood as melancholic.
ErniePyleHoosier 2 years ago
why is this a 'graphical analysis'? All I see is a score where I can barely make out the notes, a bit of green highlighting.
SingHouse 2 years ago 18
Yep. Four us complete noobs, it would be better to see at leas which note is playing.
Just my $ 0.02
conejoinmutablea 2 years ago
go play runescape.
Cloudsrange 2 years ago
desde chile a estonia......
unos de mis compositores favoritos.
lastima que en chile se le da poca importancia a los ciclos mas contemporaneos de muisca.....
nofuuunnn 2 years ago
Bellisimo... Y en Mexico no hay quien lo oiga... demasiado ocupados con el reggaeton...
conejoinmutablea 2 years ago
no todos amigo...
gasparperalta 2 years ago
You can't discredit twelve-tone music without fully understanding it and the compositional process behind it. Schoenberg was a musical genius who pushed the limits of the interpretation of what was acceptable musically and developed many new compositional techniques that have resulted in vast developments in 20th century composition. Learn to respect genius whether you like it or not.
lwalker8 2 years ago 6
Are you able to suggest a web site to help me to learn about twelve-tone music? It would be beneficial to hear examples of the music as they refer to it. I looked it up on Wikipedia and with my 8th grade glee club understanding of music (with a super teacher) I am lost with the write up. I need "Twelve-tone for Dummies" :-)
bizintin 2 years ago
Schoenberg was certainly not a faud. And Part will be one of many interesting composers of the present. I don`t think for a second he is any Bach, or Handel or !!!!!
shnimmuc 2 years ago
Schöneberg´s music will be remembered as a curiosity - though i think that he was no fraud but was led astray by the intellectual vanity of idealism - in the sense of replacing thought, experience and sensibility with an "idea" - which was THE essential catastrophy of civilization in the 20th century.
When i first heard Pärt in the 80s my tears were partly ones of relief: This is the real thing.
mossfitz 2 years ago 6
I have no effin idea what you guys are talking about but that is one sublime ass piece.
stuartk20 2 years ago 23
@stuartk20 i would venture to say that it is even more sublime than ass
PerhapslessMystery 1 year ago
@stuartk20 yes it is !!! and it seems we are some, not to understand what this analyzis is and mean :)) Arvo part music is one of the most constructed but the one which needs the less brain, the more heart.
barbecru 10 months ago
Well, taking into account that this work was made following Schoemberg and Wienn school techniques, I think that you should re-consider your thoughts about Schoemberg. And also, you should listen to first Schoemberg works and first Arvo Part works, to get surprised.
ElArteDeLaFuga 2 years ago
Part and Bach say the same thing.
parazsdavid 3 years ago
the video ends before the piece is over... I want to see/hear the rest... It was so beautiful to read AND hear at the same time, like a very good book to read.
Keytaster 3 years ago
great work!
macplo 3 years ago
Do you have that image online somewhere? We can't read it at all :(
virgildisgrace 3 years ago
Unfortunately I've not been yet able to compress the original very big file to somewhat more legible. But I go on trying...
UVULASARDIENTES 3 years ago
Very interesting, thanks
yourforte 3 years ago
i don't understand this.
smokinbill 3 years ago
wow! could you upload it in high quality?
galliard1981 3 years ago
Hi Seymour! No, it is a kind of reduction of main melodic material. I aims to show that Part´s music is completly determinated, a true algorithm... although yet all emotive and beautiful. Kind of "mathematics as art"... :)
didgig 3 years ago 2
Indeed, Pärt's music is intensely mathematical. Yet it doesn't sound like Schoenberg (who is also very mathematical), in a way that Pärt's music is much more accessible.
I see maths as art too =P But this is like art + art! Art squared? lol
stevtomato 3 years ago 4
THATS IT! Arvo Part is Art^2
(although art+art would be 2art, but no need to split hairs)
milkykitty69 3 years ago
It's because Schoenberg was not even close to being an artist, he was a fraud. Whereas Part is at the same level as Bach, period. You can thumb down me as many times as you want, but darn it; Part is music, Schoenberg is shit.
parazsdavid 3 years ago
You can't define what's music and what's not based on personal preferences.
stevtomato 3 years ago 4
I can. For example, I just did in my previous comment. And time did not stop, G-d did not strike me down, nor a dog bit me. And in fact, even if I do more terrible things than defining what's music based on personal preference, nothing in the world will happen. Ok, maybe some disapproving comments or thumb downs. But I still can and will.
parazsdavid 3 years ago
lol, alright.
stevtomato 3 years ago
No, you can't, and not because it is morally wrong, but because it is logically incorrect. "Definition" is a concept that has no meaning outside of the domain of logic, so the moment you use it, you are binding yourself to the laws of logic. By the laws of logic, "music" is defined *for* you, not by you. Much as people may hate gangsta rap or noise music or 12-tone music, that does not stop any of those genres from falling under the "music" definition.
henrebotha 2 years ago 4
Yes, in fact, he can. Definitions create signifigance. If enough members of a language community agree on a definition then it's right. This agreement indeed can involve the individual's agreement or refusal thereto and need not merely be handed to them. That is, it can be at least partly by them and not merely for them. Moreover, there's no agreement regarding how many community members is "enough". It might take only one. "Music" is a case in point of no agreement or no definition.
Apostate1970 2 years ago
Grief. Another one of those arguments that ends up disputing the meaning of the word "the". Pointless intellectual wank.
Zumbruk 2 years ago
I really don't see how "intellectual" is an insult here.
henrebotha 2 years ago
Clearly, you have no acquaintance with Heidegger, therefore you are in no position to argue the definition of "the"..........(smile) I see here lots of small weeines, and let's face it, if you have much of a sense of power in the real world, you ain't gonna be here arguing fine points. That being said, NO classical video may exist here without some dick trying to gain a sense of personal relevance by giving it a negative critique. It is a law of the universe.
BeauJames59 2 years ago
@parazsdavid You can't define what is (art) music and what's not based on personal preferences. "Each artistic medium should seek that which makes it unique among the possible mediums and then purify itself of anything other than expression of its own uniqueness as a form. - Clement Greenberg". Art ask questions about itself, it's own history, art is autonomous. Even today with the raise of "ignorant art" they're dialogging with art history. [PS: You can do that with pop (cultural) music]
sergioh91 1 year ago
Saying Schoenberg is bad just makes you look foolish to everyone that is respected musically. So you discredit yourself by saying it. Just something to consider in the future if you want anyone to listen to you.
lwalker8 2 years ago
Of course Schoenberg is not bad, but "twelve tones composition" was not a very good idea. Very vaguely formulated by Schoenberg, it generated a set of very limiting, and rather incomprehensible, "languages" that contributed a big deal to the marginalization of classical music.
dododav 2 years ago
"...contributed a big deal to the marginalization of classical music." Really? What do you base this on? (Not asking to be an arsehole - I'm legitimately interested.)
henrebotha 2 years ago 2
Combine 12 tones with a idiom full of abrupt changes, sudden ppp and fff, strident clashes of sound ... you know: the bread an butter of "new" music, and the result is under everybody's eyes: empty concert halls.
Fortunately things are changing a bit.
dododav 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
mossfitz 2 years ago
is this based on Schenkerian analysis?
SeymourGlss 3 years ago