According to the Bible, no one who dies as a child goes to hell. Perhaps you are smarter and more moral and just than God and, children should indeed go to hell, who can say for sure?
Atheist: I don't believe in a creator of the universe. Question: How then does the universe happen to exist? Atheist: I don't have any answer for that, I just don't believe in a creator of the universe. Atheist: I don't believe in sin. Question: Why do educated scientists create WMDs and educated bankers scam the common people? Atheist: I don't have any answer for that, I just don't believe in sin. CONCLUSION: Atheism = blind faith belief in the grossest of all known human superstitions.
@smithcas86 We do not judge our fellow being by its teeth. That said, I spent ten years in Texas, among my extensive travels of USA, and I must say that the fact that the people there have been drastically let down by their public education system is strikingly evident in everyday conversation.
The backdrop image offends me! How dare these atheists mock our religious imagery! That is a sacred painting by Michaeldolmio and one of the most famous symbols of Pastafarianism.
I don't think predestination, eterenal torment nor the idea that children go to hell are scriptural. I think these were adopted into the church at different times for political reasons.
Some religious people are extremely sycophantic. It's sickening to hear them, and they debate each other and often whatever view is more sycophantic is seen as what is correct. If it doesn't give the most glory to god the view is wrong. They are slaves.
My own view of this question, as a Christian and a thinking person, is that there is some chance that long, long ago all of our souls were in fire and that God in His great mercy and wisdom came up with a plan that would allow some to be forever freed from said fire. And at the heart of God's ability to make it happen is that there are principles that are immutable ... and for that reason a lot of souls will have to return to fire as the Laws involved make no allowances.
@guyNbluejeans christian and thinking person dont belong in the same sentence. oh unless it's "A christain may be smart but is by no means a thinking person"
@guyNbluejeans christian and thinking person dont belong in the same sentence. oh unless it's "A christain may be smart but is by no means a thinking person"
@guyNbluejeans If you combine a carnal minded view of scripture with blind ego, fear, a hidden thirst for vengence, selfrigthouse pride and spark the religiouse engine with a pharisitical spirit, you end up with a determend hell believer or wisher. Anyone who thinks they are saved and that many more than them will forever burn in hell is selfrightiouse. Christ showed more compassion to sinners than He did the selfrightiouse.
This idea wouldn't make God the creator but simply the finder of a bunch of doomed souls. Christians come up with all kinds of crazy ideas to justify eternal torment. This is a greek pagan idea that existed long before christianity and was used by the middle age church who incorporated many pagan ideas into the church to frighten people to be slaves to the church. It has no place in christian teaching. It is a twisting of scripture that makes no sence.
@Dave I just tossed my idea out there is all. I've never understood the notion of being eternally tortured in fire but I believe it to be so. Jesus would never lie and He said in the Bible that such is the case, that hell is a real place.
And back in '98 I had a very bad and strange thing happen to me in which I was right at the verge of going into hell but Jesus had me prepared and thus it didn't happen. But I can say for sure from a personal experience hell is real. Too complicated to get..
I'm not saying that the bible doesn't teach a punishment for sin. There are people who experience hell in near death experiences and it is still a terrible experience. How terrible varies from one person to the next. The bible also talks about the judgement which comes after. Here God sends one to have eternal life or to perish in eternal destruction. According to the bible one can escape this period of torment and then eternal destruction by accepting christ.
@guyNbluejeans- Please. "there are plenty of YouTube vids showing atheists that claim to have died and were placed in hell"- there are plenty of videos of people dying claiming to encounter alien beings instead, or...nothing at all. So what? Salvation isn't based on morality of a person's actions according to the bible. Otherwise your actions could save you and people would rightly be judged on the basis of true morality not faith in a savior figure. I would say
@guyNbluejeans- believers embrace the belief....out of fear. Fear of a mythical eternal torture. What better way to get people to follow you than to use fear. Like a dictator. The other problem with the bible is that it places god as deciding peoples fate before creation. So according to the text, they really have no decision where they end up because it was decided before they existed. So he create a hell, yet chooses people to send there. The issue of predestination.
@rooio3 They say one ought not confuse God's all-knowingness with what a person chooses to do. Yes; fear is a powerful means to get someone to behave in a particular way. But that's just how it is. There's God's will & that's not to be dismissed or mocked. Just between me & you, Jesus paid me a visit back in '98 and gave me this warning about my love 4 porn: "Just because you belong to me doesn't mean I won't punish you."
These years later I still sin with porn but am now diabetic and dying.:-(
@guyNbluejeans-"They say one ought not confuse God's all-knowingness with what a person chooses to do"- according to scripture it IS dependent on god's sole decision, not simple "foreknowing". According to romans ,made very clear, he purposely subjected creation to futility by his own will, not because of the willing choice of creation. Then you have jesus depicted in the texts saying clearly no one can come to him unless they are drawn by god's decision, not their own.
@rooio3 I can't say that you're not making some solid points and raising good questions. Nevertheless, I have discovered situations relating to scripture that at one time made no sense but, as the years went by, I did figure some things out. For example, when Jesus says that some will meet Him who have preached His word and He'll say to them He never knew them. Wow! YET, just look at people like robert tilton. he was a guy that screwed many old folks out of their $, so what else could Jesus do?!
@guyNbluejeans- then you have other texts saying believers were chosen & predestined, before creation. And their good works were prepared (not foresaw) in advanced by god. That's not depiction of simply foreknowledge. scripture say god purposely created people for destruction and others for salvation for the sole purpose of showing how powerful he is, not because it's fair. The bible, particularly the new testament, clearly depict god choosing believers, not the other way around.
@rooio3 With regard to fairness. To me fairness counts big-time! And all I can say is that to a large degree I have lived my life as a fool and, on occasions, as a REAL SOB! YET, God, in His immense mercy and kindness hasn't thrown me out into the clutches of satan! THEREFORE, if He has been so generous and merciful to the likes of me, then certainly other folks will also get His immense blessing in endless beauty and love courtesy of the invaluable gift of what Jesus Christ did on the cross!!
@guyNbluejeans So, basicly what you're saying is that it doesn't matter what you do in life; all the matters is wheather or not you accept God before you die? If I thought God were real, he would be immoral.
@guyNbluejeans- Such is the mentality of the composers of the texts. They weren't concerned with connecting such a god with morality, but rather depicting it as some tyrannical power being that subjects everything to its will, therefore replacing morality with their version of such a deity. As for you're odd little story, it proves nothing but you're own self guilt torture brought on by your beliefs. Which beg the question if this delusion you had was the direct result of your
@guyNbluejeans- fanatical paranoia about a santa-like deity who seems to be more concerned about pornography than the many dying people across the globe. Is it not the same thing kids did to themselves when they thought a real santa existed, so they had to be good, then felt bad if they assume they weren't? It's nonsense. You simply took events in your life then placed your own perception on them off you're religious influence.
@rooio Do you not believe that SIN is real? If you've intellectualized sin as something that doesn't exist, or that it's no big deal, then there's no point in us having a discussion.
Sin is serious business! I wish more than anything that I'd never sinned!
You, sir, need to drop the ego trip of thinking your sense of goodness about who you are and see things trumps that of the Holy Trinity, as it most certainly does NOT!
Jesus is a zillion winning lottery tickets and more! Get right with Him!
@guyNbluejeans- My stance on the scripture texts come from my studies of ancient religions and the background of the core beliefs of the bible, as well as key archeological findings regarding biblical claims. I know what the bible teaches because I have read all the books of the bible, including non canonical material. I'm aware of the many different denominal teachings of other denominational splits with this religion in particular. It isn't hard for someone to learn what
@guyNbluejeans- is said in the bible when they can simply read it like all other believers of the texts. In this age, it isn't hard to find what certain denominations believe regarding their particular doctrines, all spun on certain passages of the biblical texts. But what many people don't seem to know, is the background and sources of the emergence of the texts within the region, rather than the texts themselves. You say you lived as a fool, yet god hasn't thrown you into "the
@guyNbluejeans- clutches of satan". Yet, the concept of satan of earlier ancient Israel is very different from the latter emergence of Judaism and christianity. Satan was not some antagonistic being, which emerged later as the religion changed. Which is what I meant concerning people's unawareness of earlier beliefs of these religions and the metamorphosis the religions undergo. The same is said for the term "sin". An act that violates an established group moral rule is
@guyNbluejeans- not called a sin accept in religious cultures. And it has different meaning in different religions. Breaking a law in the U.S. is not called a sin, yet has the same concept of punishment. It is something most commonly seen in social species of animals as a way for group survival. So it isn't a shock to see a more developed form of it (due to increased intelligence) in the human species, who are also a social species. Yet we see there are many different forms of
@guyNbluejeans- morality, no absolute one. And it even changes within religious establishments as well. Concepts of wrong and right did not begin with Israel. We see them in the earlier civilization of the ancient Sumerians who began much of the explosion of the middle east development. So, I would say you have a limited view of this concept on the basis of you're limited view of your religion. That's not an ego trip, but using logic and reason.
So I take it these folks in the video refuse to believe in the Bible because they feel God would be too unfair to cast a soul into the flames of eternal hell on account of how a person lived their life and/or what they believed was the true religion, is that correct?
Well, there are plenty of YouTube vids showing atheists that claim to have died and were placed in hell and screamed out to Jesus ... and He gave them a second chance. It's all heavy stuff, but at least Jesus is fair and kind....
I have never heard anyone give an arguement that convinces me that people deserve eternal torment. There may be a time of punishment in accordance with each person's sin as they await the final judgement where some will be destroyed. This destruction is fair because it is the same state of existance we were in before God created us. A state of nonexistance. According to the bible accepting christ leads to eternal life. Hell does not lead to eternal life.
im a christian and no one is going to change that but for people who dis and or rip on christians please stop because we dont like being forced on atheistism or whatever it bugs us to i just wanted to share that with you
in responce to email from minor, keep searching investigating doubting, until you yourself have found out what it is u are looking for. ur parents may be angry n upset, but nevermind its important to realise that what you belive is true. God bless
@gasmask4poop my god, the sun, says you´re wrong and therefore you are gonna suffer a lot, unless of course you change and believe in the sun, the only god. by the way, to talk to the sun we are blessed enough to have his mediators, who thankfully, lead our lifes and tell us what´s wrong and right, and thanks to them we have realized that wiping our ass is a transgression to the sun, so the right thing to do is walking around full of shit. we were so wrong about clean asses.....
@wirikuta14 Actually I think your a little off, your little god is called time and random chance and given enough of this anything can come from nothing. You see you actually do believe in a religion, the religion of philosophical naturalism.
*Check out my videos "Religion is ridiculous" (specifically Christianity)...good stuff, rate it! Christians I CHALLENGE you to watch with an open mind. Atheists watch the videos and give them a thumbs up! Help spread the truth!!
And even if there are in the bible a few things which are related to historical facts? Today I watched the 3 musketeers. Richelieu and King Louis the 13th were historical persons. Does this prove the story is true? In the last 5ooo years a lot of stories about gods were written. Some of them lasted only a short time, others longer. The gods from egypt like Ammon lasted more than 3000 years.
THIS is why religion and church and Sunday school are really child abuse centers. Teaching kids that they are born sinners and have an eternal oven waiting for them is just inexcusable. Fuck anyone who believes in a single word of a single religion. Fuck all of you....
@wolfwilliams I agree, And Christianity is the most fucked-up of all religions , I have a book that lists over 140 self-contradictions in the bible . If the REAL God of the Universe was gonna give us a book to live by it It would NOT have any self-contradictions and it Would be Logical and Scientific and Perfect in every way . The Bible is a fucken joke and Definelty NOT Holy !
@wolfwilliams It's exactly why I consider religion a mental disorder. The idea that a voice in your head can make you do things, such as mentally abuse children, clearly points to some mental ailment that needs to be categorized as a disorder of the mind.
@MrMoonlight222 Jesus? Jesus Maldonado, my next-door neighbor? I doubt he knows the road to heaven, but I'll ask. Hang on...................... Nope. He's never heard of it. Aside from you being wrong about that, you're wrong about sinful natures. Humans are like any other animal; we're born with a survival instinct. As we grow, we get civilized and hopefully we learn behaviors that soften our harsher impulses. But sin? Go fuck yourself over sin. Sin is fiction. Go wipe your ass with your bible.
@TOMHYLE88 I was raised Methodist, not Catholic, but 6 of one, half dozen of the other... And what do you expect, me to be polite? Religion has fucked this world, and the people who follow religions have been the hammer. I have no use for idiots who are stupid enough to believe in fairy tales and then try to shape whole societies around them. You might as well build a temple to Bugs Bunny. The real problem with you people is that we've been too kind to you for too long. Go fuck yourself.
@wolfwilliams I usually fuck myself everyday, but I don't have to go anywhere to do it; I do it right here in the bed I'm writing from (ewwww! he ha ho; I'm not the one who brought it up!)
I didn't say anything about you being Catholic, because I don't know you. I noted you seem to have a powerful mental "complex" on this issue; I did go so far as to presume that that complex came out of trauma, as my extensive research and experience in that area gives me to believe is usual.
@wolfwilliams I'm not sure what the source of your assumptions about me is ("you people"), but I assure you that you do not know me, and that the truth about me is free for the asking. But feel free to continue in your insulting, baseless assumption, whatever it is; it is obvious you have bigger challenges in life than being polite to me, so I forgive you.
@wolfwilliams BTW, assuming Wolf Williams is your real name, I salute your using it; I don't understand about screen names; some kind of new fangled industrial tribal social thing that left old me behind; our evil corporate masters are pushing their agenda of social change so fast these days it's hard for me to keep up with, but it's basically all in "1984" more people should read "1984" to know what's going on and "the Prince" to know how our masters think. The Bible is past; history is,.....
@wolfwilliams ....the Bible is past; history is important, of course, as we do not wish to be condemned to repeat it, but we live in Hellish times, and dwelling in the past is no way to address them, alas.
@wolfwilliams You are correct that the Bible is literature and jokes (if written) and fiction (if written) are types of literature, but they are not the type of literature the Bible is. The type of literature the Bible is, is clearly "history"; a record of events. There's nothting particularly holy about most of it, and certainly, as with all histories, it is distorted through the cultural lense and sometimes through the propegandistic aims of its authors and editors. Very definitely history
@TOMHYLE88 Spare the lecture. If it's history at all it is history of a very peculiar sort, and very suspect in its accuracy. It's popular today only because humans are too fucking stupid to recognize a racket when they see one, and because the KJV is well written as translation. It casts a long shadow over Western Lit., I'll give it that, but that means zilch in terms of credibility for the horseshit "history" it contains. If it's 20% accurate as an historical document, I'd be surprised.
@wolfwilliams well, do some research and prepare to be surprised. Your assignment is to read a magazine called Biblical Archaeology Review. It is not a religious magazine. It is a scientific magazine. The Bible is not a peculiar history. it is a very typical history. Like "all histories, it is distorted through the cultural lense and sometimes through the propegandistic aims of its authors and editor." like ALL histories.
@TOMHYLE88 Good for the bible, then. Let's grant it, oh, say, 90% accuracy on the historical stuff. Yeah for it. But that's hardly the point of the book. The supernatural mumbo jumbo in there is the real heart of the matter, and you know that. Fine, a temple was built here and there. A few armies waged a few wars. Irrelevant. But when you start off with a story as stupid as the Adam/Eve nonsense, you don't get the bulk of your credibility back after that. Just mentioning 'God' means you lose.
@wolfwilliams No, I don't "know that" the "real heart" of the Bible is its cosmological and ethical content. What I have in fact said is that the real heart of the Bible is its historical content, and I cannot understand why anyone considers it a holy book.
"Just mentioning 'God' means you lose".....Wow; way to testify to your own closed mindedness.
@TOMHYLE88 I am proudly and absolutely closed-minded when it comes to religion. Fuck all of them, and fuck the people who are stupid enough to fall in line behind that bullshit. You want to be nice and offer respect to that nonsense, go right ahead. I have no use for people who live their lives based on fairy tales. You want to keep space in your brain for that shit, go right ahead. I hope you also keep room for the possibility that Daffy Duck created the universe. It amounts to the same thing.
@wolfwilliams I'm sad that you are thinking and speaking out of such a place of hurt and anger. There is a world of beauty and depth available through religion, but I'm sure that you know best for your self. One must sometimes draw away from what is damaging, gain safety, calm down, and heal, before one can truly analyze what happened to cause the damage, let alone to reapproach the damaging situation for any other values it might have, like a surfer who goes back to The Sea after a shark bite
@TOMHYLE88 One, go be sad for someone else. Two, no hurt here. I've spent the last 25 years traveling and living in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, and I can tell you one thing for certain: Nowhere does religion do an ounce of good. The only "depth" it provides is to sink believers deeper into stupid traditions and superstitious habits. Don't play amateur psychiatrist with me, kid. Go live a little and get beyond the propaganda that religion and spirituality are somehow worthwhile pursuits.
@wolfwilliams and just on a pesonal note, and try to remember that you don't actually know what kind of person I am, the fact is that I am 41 years old, and "we' (society, normal people, etc.) have never been kind to me at all, so that shows how much you don't know.
@wolfwilliams and just on a pesonal note, and try to remember that you don't actually know what kind of person I am, the fact is that I am 41 years old, and "we' (society, normal people, etc.) have never been kind to me at all, so that shows how much you don't know.
@rooio3 Just so you know I'm not sure if Christine Hayes did most of those videos but I have provided some comments on problems that she has with her claims about the Exodus and ancient similarities in ancient writings between the canaanites and earlier Israelites. She makes some enormous extrapolations and assumptions not to mention her area of expertise is not in middle east archaeology and yet she makes everybody think she is an expert in that area. (cont...)
@cctman- The evidence of exodus does not originate with...Christine Hayes. That should be self evident. She simply talk about the findings established in archeology. None of these things originate with her, they were long established based on the data themselves. Everyone who studies archeology, especially egyptian archeology, will tell you such claims of exodus are nonexistent. Biblical archeology attempt to correlate biblical claims with findings, which is why it has fallen out
@rooio3 As I pointed out earlier she only discusses her selected findings that support her theories. Anything else to the contrary she throws it out. Typical of evolutionists and even more so with atheists.
@cctman- of favor, due to obvious bias, with modern archeology who grew tired of trying to explain away inconsistencies in order to keep the biblical account together. What they do now, which is what they should have done, is try to explain the best possible scenario of the region on the basis of the evidence itself, regardless of whether or not they reflect claims made in a certain set of texts.
@rooio3 I'm sorry... but have you even read any books by Biblical archaeologists? That's a serious question. If so by whom? Which books? And let me make this clear so I understand what your inferring. Are you claiming that most Biblical archaeologists believe that their is not enough evidence to support the Exodus?
@cctman-"Shes chooses to pick and choose the scholars that side with her points."- no she doesn't. She pointed out clear differences between different scholar opinions and....presented them. You simply don't like what she present. I give little credence to apologetics, who often produce more difficulties than they solve due to harsh and imbalanced polemics. The problem with "biblical " focus is the lack of knowledge concerning the other cultures and religions of
@cctman- the region besides the Israelites, to show the many influences and identity of all combined, which is also reflected in archeology. That's where she shines. For biblical archeologists, I know of those who conducted excavations- Edward Robinson, Charles Warren, Frederick J. Bliss, William F. Albright, Elihu Grant, Benjamin Mazar, James Bennett Pritchard, Ruth Amiran, G. Ernest Wright, William G. Dever, Gabriel Barkay, Trude Dothan, Amihai Mazar,
@cctman- Israel Finkelstein, David Ussishkin, Aren Maeir, Yosef Garfinkel, Avraham Biran, Nahman Avigad, Adam Zertal, John Garstang. Many of theses archeologist specialize in bronze age Israel and also Near Eastern archeology for the obvious fact that the two are interconnected to the region. As for archeological support of the exodus, we know there is no egyptian documentation for the exodus. Excavations of the Sinai Peninsula by biblical archeologists have turned up nothing.
@cctman- There has been almost 200 years of archaeological research in Egypt and Israel, and virtually every modern archaeologist who has investigated the story of the exodus, agrees that the way the bible describes the exodus is not the way it happened, or never happened at all. This is old news. The question is, what evidence are you claiming support the exodus? And specifically what evidence in the field of archeology support any supernatural claims of the bible,as opposed to sites?
@rooio3 Mind giving me a reference to back your claim? "...and virtually every modern archaeologist who has investigated the story of the exodus, agrees that the way the bible describes the exodus is not the way it happened..."
@cctman- Uh, for starters, why don't you start by looking up the archeologists who investigated and conducted excavations. Do the work yourself like everyone else, it's not hard to find. There's over a 200 year period of exploration of the area. Do you know how to conduct a proper research, or does someone have to hold your hand for that too? Some of the archeologists I listed were involved in these excavations. Try harder please.
@rooio3 Don't try to spin your way out of this... Don't try to back your claim on an elephant hurling debate tactic. You made a claim now provide the evidence for it or acknowledge your either lying, misleading everyone and or have no clue what your talking about.
@cctman- Don't need to spin a way out of something that never was. I didn't make a claim, you did. I stated what what the archeological record show, and your ignorance of it. That was an indication to you to....do...proper......research. Thought that was clearly understood. I see I have to spell it out. I already gave you a clue, but I'm not going to do the work for you. Stop being lazy. If I can research the material without someone 'babying' me, so can you.
@rooio3 Furthermore I could not find one debate anywhere or forum where Christine Hayes opens herself up for critique to apologists or Hebrew scholars. I could care less if she spent her entire life at Yale, Harvard or Princeton. She needs to stay in areas of her expertise and not speculate into Biblical history where she has absolutely no authority in these matters. I would welcome a debate from her anytime on these maters. But I would imagine she will continue to hide behind a class room door.
@rooio3 On a side note... I would caution you with a word of advice on taking people as authority figures that have no expertise in these subject matters. Christine Hayes is a perfect example of this. Do you actually have any evidence from an actual Hebrew scholar or Biblical archaeologist on these matters against the Exodus interpretation given by the Bible?
@cctman- Please, tell me what you think an actual hebrew scholar or biblical archaeologist says regarding the exodus and the findings in archeology? I would find this particularly interesting. Because according to researched done by archaeologists and egyptologists for century, Israel had its origins in Canaan, not Egypt, leaving no room for the exodus of the wandering in the desert. What data exactly have biblical archeologist found that others haven't? Please tell me.
@cctman- In the videos with Christine Hayes, she also talk about biblical scholars views of the texts. Which indicate to me you never watched most of the videos, or you rarely paid attention to them at all. Her focus is on religious studies, so she deal with Near Eastern Studies, not just Israel. She is a specialist in the history and literature of Judaism in Late Antiquity, & served as a professor of Hebrew Studies. You won't find her on forums or debates about
@rooio3 Actually what she discusses is selected Biblical scholars. Shes chooses to pick and choose the scholars that side with her points. And I know for a fact she excludes much of the details, theories, recent findings, archaeological support for the Bible and only picks on what she thinks she can debunk. If she was so sure of herself I would love for her to step out in a public debate forum. I'm sure Craig would have a field day running circles around her.
@cctman- whether god is real or not. Not every scientist, or biologist, or professor take part in such debates. You didn't comment on her video dealing specifically with the exodus (at the bottom of the list) or the other video of the archeological findings regarding the exodus I posted (separately above my video list post) which has nothing to do with her nor is she featured in that video, which tell me you probably didn't watch those videos, just the first one you commented on.
Stupid kids biblical study , you actually study the bible . And yeah you like to teach religion but you have no idea what it is. Religion sucks I literally resent it. I'm a Christian and that's not a religion its a relationship with god. I'm 14 and I understand that . And everything is inevitable god has already set it up so stop worrying.
People go to hell because reject eternal life. Notice that Jesus said that the sins of men will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Children would SEEM exempt from this by reason of innocence.
@zzzzz4203 Just another one of the convenient "catch-all" outs that religion gives itself, like the ludicrous "god works in mysterious ways" silliness. "Hey! If all people are born in sin, then dead babies must go to hell, right?" ... "No, no, no! We exempt them because they are innocent." ... "Oh, okay then. As long as there are exemptions we're all good here." .... What a crock of shit this whole thing is. Any 6-yr-old with half a brain sees through the whole charade.
1. The Bible teaches clearly that we are NOT innocent. We are born in a fallen world because of our great... grand parents.
2. The BIble addresses sin being passed on to others through relationship representation through federal headship. Rom 5:12
3. A babes salvation is not addressed specifically in scripture however, we know King David said he would look to seeing his child in heaven when lamenting his child's death. But that could apply to only the saved.
I'm not Christian, but I've read the entire bible more than once, and it portrays children as innocent and blameless. People wouldn't be deserving of Hell until they come to an age when they are able to truly understand right and wrong, basically when their conscience kicks in. By the way, I don't argue FOR any religion, so please don't attack me as though I am. I call both Christians and Athiests out when I know they've gotten something wrong.
@TaysieGraves I'm not commenting back to you to start an argument. Just a heads up. But, doesn't the bible say that jesus said to dash the little children among the rocks. And doesn't it also say to stone unruly children? It's been awhile since I've read the actual versus.
@SuperMegaFl0yd "Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" (Psalm 137:9) I really don't know what that's trying to say lol, other than people are going to be happy when they dash your kids against rocks. Then there's this one: "Moses said to honor your father and mother and whoever curses father or mother, let him die the death" (Mark 7:10) I don't know what to make of them. The books in the Bible seem to contradict each other a lot.
@TaysieGraves Haha, very true. What gets me is that Christians are the people who say that the bible is the inherent, irrefutable word of god. Yet, when you show them verses like that they also say, "It's metaphorical. That shouldn't be taken literally. Yadda yadda yadda."
@TaysieGraves It's really not that cut and dry. It depends on people's stance on original sin, for one, and there are tons of conflicting passages in regards to this. In the early years of Christianity it was widely believed the unbaptized babies went to hell. That was still the normal view of it back when conquistadors would baptize and then slaughter native children in South America. As our morality shifted so too did the consensus on this question, it seems.
@dawn0293 And some say Hitler was a christian. The standard I would use on HItler is the same by which I would use for any conquistador. If they followed that act then obviously they were not Christian as that is not Christ like.
"Chasing people around with whips?" What? Where in the world did you get that? Did she just make that up? A 9 month old child is safe. There is no iniquity in a child until they learn it later in life. The Bible clearly teaches this. God is going to torture you forever? You don't know ANY Bible... Seriously, stop trying or keep on arguing with your own "beliefs" of God and the Bible, because you aren't talking about true Christianity, or the Word.
@tubehab- "Chasing people around with whips?" What? Where in the world did you get that?"- Jesus chasing the moneychangers out of the temple with a whip. "God is going to torture you forever? You don't know ANY Bible"- so there is no eternal torment? No lake of fire spoken of in the book of revelation? No second death, thus no resurrection? What then is the need for "salvation"? What do people need to be saved from? Do YOU know what's in your own bible? That's the question.
@rooio3 God isn't going to torture anyone. Hell, Lake of Fire, Gehenna, Hades, and all those English words describe a condition. Everything from a graveyard, condition of your body, all the way to Hell/Lake of Fire, condition of your spirit after death, describe separation from God. If there is a with God, there is a without God. Being without God is the worst condition possible for the spirit which would be like "burning in fire". A person puts themselves into that condition.
@tubehab-"condition of your spirit after death, describe separation from God."- Not according to the biblical text. If a person's "spirit" can continue after death, that would make them immortal. Which make no sense when the biblical texts describe the main "gift" of god to be....immortality. If a persons spirit can survive, there is no need for a "resurrection of a spirit body" described in the bible. Me thinks you don't understand your own bible and invent your own interpretation.
@tubehab- That is according to christian theology. No such thing existed in the concepts of early ancient Israel. After a person died, that was it. Many of the concepts of ancient Israel were influenced from religions of the ancient near east where they originate. There isn't any such thing to begin with. All of this branched out of polytheism mythology, as discovered by archeological data. Israel simply adapted and modified these ideas into their own emerging religion.
I look to the day when we have a redeemed earth. One like the original created order. See Revelations. No disease, famine, death, no entropy. If God promised that we would return to the original perfect creation then how prefect would that be if we still had diseases, lions tearing apart lambs, tumors, blood shed in the animal kingdom. It's a good argument against gap and long age theorists.
waiting for those who call upon him. Reject him, he will aurally reject you. This is a spiritual battle for human souls. Hell exist and so does heaven. Without having your name written in the book of life, no one can enter period. I pray many will think and see, seek him. Confess your sin and know you are sinner and need of a Savior, less one can see their true sinful nature, they won't repent.
God does love, out of that love he gave man free will. That choice will determine your eternal destiny. Life is in the blood, without it life can continue to live. Because man sin from the creation, that curse continued. Jesus who lived a perfect life without sin, was willing to take our place and pay the price to purchase us back, so we don't have to face the wrath of God. He has to punish because he alone is holy God, without any sin in his present. Repent and seek him today. He is always
I can see how Lucifer loves this kind of debate and confusions. He loves leaving behind such deception in human conscience. He does exist, regardless what anyone desire to believe or not. Just because one can see, doesn't mean his filthy influence isn't working in those who reject the truth of Jesus Christ. All will see him, all will confess is he the Son of Living God. Lucifer time is very short, so is agents, demons & fallen angels. Without Jesus, all will land in Hell, eternal separation.
ug, WHY did I have to go and read Comfort's blog after this? He compares child rape to ... adult consensual sex "fornication" as also being evil "in god's eyes". He also automatically deletes comments that don't capitalize the word god. fuck that d bag.
Why don't you worship me instead, and build churches in my name. Do it and I'll buy you a box of cookies. That's more than God will ever do for ya. :)
@Apanzon I'll tell you what when you have a daughter that almost dies in the hospital which is considered the worst day of your life and then 8 months later you find your new adopted daughter you had been waiting on for 5 years was born the exact same day/time all the while you are being provided for without a job by Christians helping you in your life all followed by numerous other answered prayers then come to me and talk to me about worshiping something else. Testimony is everything.
@cctman "Testimony is everything." And coincidence means nothing.
" I can't explain something I don't believe to be true, namingly that they are myths.Want to try again?"
Well sure, since I didn't say that in the first place. And I'll keep it a simple example : Psalm 14:1. How do you explain that the bible, that claims itself to be from a god of truth, states : everyone who says 'there is no God', does no good?
Atheists do good all the time, so how do you explain a 'God of truth' who lies?
@cctman This somehow proves that the preposterous claims of your religion is true?
Perhaps you should take it up with the christians whose children have been molested by priests and pastors; or whose children suffered and died despite their prayers; or who have ruined themselves financially by donating to evangelists.
@punnet2 Or perhaps you could just open up a Bible and read about this thing called SIN and this thing in Genesis called THE FALL. That would be a start.
@cctman Sorry, but I have read genesis. Any book that by chapter 2 is talking about clay men and talking snakes holds very little credibility.
Any anyone who accepts such ridiculous fairy tales based on non-sequiturs and selective reasoning (as you demonstrated in your previous post) is running on rather low credibility himself, and really shouldn't be dispensing advice.
@punnet2 Really? LOL! So any book by chapter one first sentence that starts with millions of years ago... and refers to our great... parents coming from slime that fell of a rock 4.5 billion years ago holds very little credibility. Any anyone who accepts such ridiculous fairy tales based on non-sequiturs and selective reasoning (as you demonstrated in your previous post) is running on rather low credibility himself, and really shouldn't be dispensing advice.
@cctman Certainly, if your job is to go running scared when your position fails. I pointed out to you that your original argument about your daughter's recovery and the charity of a some congregants did not amount to a valid argument. Your response was simply to preach from your book of ancient myths. Now having been shown that this too is fallacious, you respond with ... nothing.
@punnet2 Exactly what are you trying to say? Are you saying that my argument from my personal testimony is not valid when someone asks me how I know a God exists? And by what criteria must I adhere too? Yours?
@cctman That's exactly what I'm saying -- wasn't it obvious from my first reply?
-Selective reasoning: You focus on your own child's recovery, but ignore all the other children who suffer and die (despite prayers). Were those children just not good enough?
-Non-sequitur: Neither a child's recovery nor an act of charity counts as proof of a 6,000 year-old earth, a virgin-born zombie god, or any of the other nonsense in your bible.
Actually this has nothing to do with selective reasoning. Scripture clearly tells us that God blesses who he wants and creates and takes life from whom he desires when he desires. So your argument fails because the reasoning I use is not actually selective but very consistent with scripture.
The original question wasn't asking for proof for everyone it was asked of proof for me. There is a big difference. So not a Non-sequitur. Try again!
@cctman Tell me; If your daughter had not survived (as so many other children do not survive), or if the xians hadn't helped you, or if none of your prayers were "answered", would you consider your personal testimony just as strong? Because you're essentially saying now:
"When (something good) happens, obviously god gets the credit! But...when (something good) fails to happen, well...scripture says it doesn't always happen!"
This has everything to do with selective reasoning.
@punnet2 That's a difficult one... I can say it would be very difficult and I'm not sure what I would do. I guess take one day at a time. I did in all honesty try to prepare myself for that very possibility of losing my daughter. I remember coming at peace between myself and God and praying if it was of his will then I would accept his decision. What hope else would there be apart from my belief in God to see her again if she did die?
@cctman Your ambivalence betrays the weakness of your position: By all indication you already believed in god so would have spun the outcome to confirm your faith either way; but likely had the outcome been tragic you would have simply kept it out of your "testimony".
As far as hoping to see her again had she died: It may be pleasant to think you will see a lost loved one again, but there is no rational basis for believing it to be possible. Hope is not equal to truth.
@punnet2 "...but likely had the outcome been tragic you would have simply kept it out of your "testimony"" I'm curious as I already told you that before she was out of the danger zone so to speak I made peace in prayer that it was OK between myself and God if He had taken her. I would have still placed my trust in Him. So knowing I said this... Who are you to fortune tale the outcome of the situation as if I had lost her and reacted a different way?
@cctman Thank you for clarifying. Your present assessment appears to be: you made your peace with the possibility of your daughter dying only after it was clear she was not going to die. Got it.
@punnet2 "... but there is no rational basis for believing it to be possible." There is no rational basis for things you do every day of your life, yet we still perform these actions. Why would a mother jump in front of traffic to save her child if she knew she would be killed anyway? Rationally it doesn't make sense. It goes against the instinct to survive and yet she does it anyway. Hope is not truth but truth is assumed to often when it is not that which we perceive. i.e. Big Bang happened!
@cctman A mother acting (even in vain) is actually in keeping with the survival instinct -- to pass one's genes on. But I think you just admitted you have no rational grounds for believing in an afterlife, and believe only because you want to.
Are you implying on the other hand that the big bang theory isn't based on actual evidence?
@cctman-"There is no rational basis for things you do every day of your life, yet we still perform these actions."- organism can still form meaning for themselves, even if their existence has none, as long as they are alive. Just because humans form meaning out of their lives, does not mean the universe has to have purpose. And it doesn't mean humans can't create purpose for themselves if there is none in the universe. You're basing all your reasoning off biblical texts as if
@cctman-they are accurate reflections of reality. We know historically and archeologically they are not. Especially certain stories found in the first books. The creation and flood stories are simply Israelite adaptations o
According to the Bible, no one who dies as a child goes to hell. Perhaps you are smarter and more moral and just than God and, children should indeed go to hell, who can say for sure?
richardaberdeen 1 minute ago
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Atheist: I don't believe in a creator of the universe. Question: How then does the universe happen to exist? Atheist: I don't have any answer for that, I just don't believe in a creator of the universe. Atheist: I don't believe in sin. Question: Why do educated scientists create WMDs and educated bankers scam the common people? Atheist: I don't have any answer for that, I just don't believe in sin. CONCLUSION: Atheism = blind faith belief in the grossest of all known human superstitions.
richardaberdeen 3 minutes ago
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richardaberdeen 4 minutes ago
Only fools despise knowledge and wisdom, you're not as smart as you think you are, Jesus will judge you, I hope you can see this, I love you
MultiBadog 2 hours ago
She has bad teeth
sooper2dooper3 2 days ago
@sooper2dooper3 She lives in Texas. Be grateful she has any teeth and can form cogent sentences.
(snark)
smithcas86 1 day ago
@smithcas86 We do not judge our fellow being by its teeth. That said, I spent ten years in Texas, among my extensive travels of USA, and I must say that the fact that the people there have been drastically let down by their public education system is strikingly evident in everyday conversation.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
The backdrop image offends me! How dare these atheists mock our religious imagery! That is a sacred painting by Michaeldolmio and one of the most famous symbols of Pastafarianism.
Libervurto 5 days ago
I don't think predestination, eterenal torment nor the idea that children go to hell are scriptural. I think these were adopted into the church at different times for political reasons.
Davedude2000 5 days ago
Some religious people are extremely sycophantic. It's sickening to hear them, and they debate each other and often whatever view is more sycophantic is seen as what is correct. If it doesn't give the most glory to god the view is wrong. They are slaves.
mrpayne123 6 days ago
My own view of this question, as a Christian and a thinking person, is that there is some chance that long, long ago all of our souls were in fire and that God in His great mercy and wisdom came up with a plan that would allow some to be forever freed from said fire. And at the heart of God's ability to make it happen is that there are principles that are immutable ... and for that reason a lot of souls will have to return to fire as the Laws involved make no allowances.
Get right with Jesus!!!
guyNbluejeans 1 week ago
@guyNbluejeans christian and thinking person dont belong in the same sentence. oh unless it's "A christain may be smart but is by no means a thinking person"
DatJohnWayne 6 days ago
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@guyNbluejeans christian and thinking person dont belong in the same sentence. oh unless it's "A christain may be smart but is by no means a thinking person"
DatJohnWayne 6 days ago
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@guyNbluejeans If you combine a carnal minded view of scripture with blind ego, fear, a hidden thirst for vengence, selfrigthouse pride and spark the religiouse engine with a pharisitical spirit, you end up with a determend hell believer or wisher. Anyone who thinks they are saved and that many more than them will forever burn in hell is selfrightiouse. Christ showed more compassion to sinners than He did the selfrightiouse.
SwordofManticorE 6 days ago
@guyNbluejeans
This idea wouldn't make God the creator but simply the finder of a bunch of doomed souls. Christians come up with all kinds of crazy ideas to justify eternal torment. This is a greek pagan idea that existed long before christianity and was used by the middle age church who incorporated many pagan ideas into the church to frighten people to be slaves to the church. It has no place in christian teaching. It is a twisting of scripture that makes no sence.
Davedude2000 6 days ago
@Dave I just tossed my idea out there is all. I've never understood the notion of being eternally tortured in fire but I believe it to be so. Jesus would never lie and He said in the Bible that such is the case, that hell is a real place.
And back in '98 I had a very bad and strange thing happen to me in which I was right at the verge of going into hell but Jesus had me prepared and thus it didn't happen. But I can say for sure from a personal experience hell is real. Too complicated to get..
guyNbluejeans 6 days ago
@guyNbluejeans
I'm not saying that the bible doesn't teach a punishment for sin. There are people who experience hell in near death experiences and it is still a terrible experience. How terrible varies from one person to the next. The bible also talks about the judgement which comes after. Here God sends one to have eternal life or to perish in eternal destruction. According to the bible one can escape this period of torment and then eternal destruction by accepting christ.
Davedude2000 6 days ago
@guyNbluejeans- Please. "there are plenty of YouTube vids showing atheists that claim to have died and were placed in hell"- there are plenty of videos of people dying claiming to encounter alien beings instead, or...nothing at all. So what? Salvation isn't based on morality of a person's actions according to the bible. Otherwise your actions could save you and people would rightly be judged on the basis of true morality not faith in a savior figure. I would say
rooio3 6 days ago
@guyNbluejeans- believers embrace the belief....out of fear. Fear of a mythical eternal torture. What better way to get people to follow you than to use fear. Like a dictator. The other problem with the bible is that it places god as deciding peoples fate before creation. So according to the text, they really have no decision where they end up because it was decided before they existed. So he create a hell, yet chooses people to send there. The issue of predestination.
rooio3 6 days ago
@rooio3 They say one ought not confuse God's all-knowingness with what a person chooses to do. Yes; fear is a powerful means to get someone to behave in a particular way. But that's just how it is. There's God's will & that's not to be dismissed or mocked. Just between me & you, Jesus paid me a visit back in '98 and gave me this warning about my love 4 porn: "Just because you belong to me doesn't mean I won't punish you."
These years later I still sin with porn but am now diabetic and dying.:-(
guyNbluejeans 6 days ago
@guyNbluejeans-"They say one ought not confuse God's all-knowingness with what a person chooses to do"- according to scripture it IS dependent on god's sole decision, not simple "foreknowing". According to romans ,made very clear, he purposely subjected creation to futility by his own will, not because of the willing choice of creation. Then you have jesus depicted in the texts saying clearly no one can come to him unless they are drawn by god's decision, not their own.
rooio3 3 days ago
@rooio3 I can't say that you're not making some solid points and raising good questions. Nevertheless, I have discovered situations relating to scripture that at one time made no sense but, as the years went by, I did figure some things out. For example, when Jesus says that some will meet Him who have preached His word and He'll say to them He never knew them. Wow! YET, just look at people like robert tilton. he was a guy that screwed many old folks out of their $, so what else could Jesus do?!
guyNbluejeans 3 days ago
@guyNbluejeans- then you have other texts saying believers were chosen & predestined, before creation. And their good works were prepared (not foresaw) in advanced by god. That's not depiction of simply foreknowledge. scripture say god purposely created people for destruction and others for salvation for the sole purpose of showing how powerful he is, not because it's fair. The bible, particularly the new testament, clearly depict god choosing believers, not the other way around.
rooio3 3 days ago
@rooio3 With regard to fairness. To me fairness counts big-time! And all I can say is that to a large degree I have lived my life as a fool and, on occasions, as a REAL SOB! YET, God, in His immense mercy and kindness hasn't thrown me out into the clutches of satan! THEREFORE, if He has been so generous and merciful to the likes of me, then certainly other folks will also get His immense blessing in endless beauty and love courtesy of the invaluable gift of what Jesus Christ did on the cross!!
guyNbluejeans 3 days ago
@guyNbluejeans So, basicly what you're saying is that it doesn't matter what you do in life; all the matters is wheather or not you accept God before you die? If I thought God were real, he would be immoral.
Ciara62789 2 days ago
@guyNbluejeans- Such is the mentality of the composers of the texts. They weren't concerned with connecting such a god with morality, but rather depicting it as some tyrannical power being that subjects everything to its will, therefore replacing morality with their version of such a deity. As for you're odd little story, it proves nothing but you're own self guilt torture brought on by your beliefs. Which beg the question if this delusion you had was the direct result of your
rooio3 3 days ago
@guyNbluejeans- fanatical paranoia about a santa-like deity who seems to be more concerned about pornography than the many dying people across the globe. Is it not the same thing kids did to themselves when they thought a real santa existed, so they had to be good, then felt bad if they assume they weren't? It's nonsense. You simply took events in your life then placed your own perception on them off you're religious influence.
rooio3 3 days ago
@rooio Do you not believe that SIN is real? If you've intellectualized sin as something that doesn't exist, or that it's no big deal, then there's no point in us having a discussion.
Sin is serious business! I wish more than anything that I'd never sinned!
You, sir, need to drop the ego trip of thinking your sense of goodness about who you are and see things trumps that of the Holy Trinity, as it most certainly does NOT!
Jesus is a zillion winning lottery tickets and more! Get right with Him!
guyNbluejeans 3 days ago
@guyNbluejeans- My stance on the scripture texts come from my studies of ancient religions and the background of the core beliefs of the bible, as well as key archeological findings regarding biblical claims. I know what the bible teaches because I have read all the books of the bible, including non canonical material. I'm aware of the many different denominal teachings of other denominational splits with this religion in particular. It isn't hard for someone to learn what
rooio3 1 day ago
@guyNbluejeans- is said in the bible when they can simply read it like all other believers of the texts. In this age, it isn't hard to find what certain denominations believe regarding their particular doctrines, all spun on certain passages of the biblical texts. But what many people don't seem to know, is the background and sources of the emergence of the texts within the region, rather than the texts themselves. You say you lived as a fool, yet god hasn't thrown you into "the
rooio3 1 day ago
@guyNbluejeans- clutches of satan". Yet, the concept of satan of earlier ancient Israel is very different from the latter emergence of Judaism and christianity. Satan was not some antagonistic being, which emerged later as the religion changed. Which is what I meant concerning people's unawareness of earlier beliefs of these religions and the metamorphosis the religions undergo. The same is said for the term "sin". An act that violates an established group moral rule is
rooio3 1 day ago
@guyNbluejeans- not called a sin accept in religious cultures. And it has different meaning in different religions. Breaking a law in the U.S. is not called a sin, yet has the same concept of punishment. It is something most commonly seen in social species of animals as a way for group survival. So it isn't a shock to see a more developed form of it (due to increased intelligence) in the human species, who are also a social species. Yet we see there are many different forms of
rooio3 1 day ago
@guyNbluejeans- morality, no absolute one. And it even changes within religious establishments as well. Concepts of wrong and right did not begin with Israel. We see them in the earlier civilization of the ancient Sumerians who began much of the explosion of the middle east development. So, I would say you have a limited view of this concept on the basis of you're limited view of your religion. That's not an ego trip, but using logic and reason.
rooio3 1 day ago
@rooio3 What a nice person you are, giving these lengthy (and very eloquent) explanations. The god love generosity above all else. Way to be.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
So I take it these folks in the video refuse to believe in the Bible because they feel God would be too unfair to cast a soul into the flames of eternal hell on account of how a person lived their life and/or what they believed was the true religion, is that correct?
Well, there are plenty of YouTube vids showing atheists that claim to have died and were placed in hell and screamed out to Jesus ... and He gave them a second chance. It's all heavy stuff, but at least Jesus is fair and kind....
guyNbluejeans 1 week ago
@guyNbluejeans and there is even more christian who say that they became athiest because religion is a fairy tale
DatJohnWayne 6 days ago
@guyNbluejeans
I have never heard anyone give an arguement that convinces me that people deserve eternal torment. There may be a time of punishment in accordance with each person's sin as they await the final judgement where some will be destroyed. This destruction is fair because it is the same state of existance we were in before God created us. A state of nonexistance. According to the bible accepting christ leads to eternal life. Hell does not lead to eternal life.
Davedude2000 6 days ago
this is bullsh*t, how dare all of you mock my church of the fonz?
raidersSolja 1 week ago
fuck of you scum
Grifflaw 1 week ago
witness pure idiocy below me. Enjoy.
dkthg 1 week ago
im a christian and no one is going to change that but for people who dis and or rip on christians please stop because we dont like being forced on atheistism or whatever it bugs us to i just wanted to share that with you
Falsetruthinlies 1 week ago
@Falsetruthinlies You do realize your asking the irrational to think rationally right?
cctman 1 week ago
in responce to email from minor, keep searching investigating doubting, until you yourself have found out what it is u are looking for. ur parents may be angry n upset, but nevermind its important to realise that what you belive is true. God bless
punkhed101 1 week ago
I SEE MY GOD IN THE BACKGROUND.....THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! HAIL TO THE NOODLEY ONE!
gasmask4poop 1 week ago
@gasmask4poop my god, the sun, says you´re wrong and therefore you are gonna suffer a lot, unless of course you change and believe in the sun, the only god. by the way, to talk to the sun we are blessed enough to have his mediators, who thankfully, lead our lifes and tell us what´s wrong and right, and thanks to them we have realized that wiping our ass is a transgression to the sun, so the right thing to do is walking around full of shit. we were so wrong about clean asses.....
wirikuta14 1 week ago
@wirikuta14 haha
gasmask4poop 1 week ago
@wirikuta14 Actually I think your a little off, your little god is called time and random chance and given enough of this anything can come from nothing. You see you actually do believe in a religion, the religion of philosophical naturalism.
cctman 1 week ago
@cctman nooooo! I worship spiderman for God´s sake!
wirikuta14 1 week ago
*Check out my videos "Religion is ridiculous" (specifically Christianity)...good stuff, rate it! Christians I CHALLENGE you to watch with an open mind. Atheists watch the videos and give them a thumbs up! Help spread the truth!!
gasmask4poop 1 week ago
If hell existed, children would be an overrepresented group there, youth =/= innocence...
unapologeticmind 1 week ago
And even if there are in the bible a few things which are related to historical facts? Today I watched the 3 musketeers. Richelieu and King Louis the 13th were historical persons. Does this prove the story is true? In the last 5ooo years a lot of stories about gods were written. Some of them lasted only a short time, others longer. The gods from egypt like Ammon lasted more than 3000 years.
daswenzel 1 week ago 6
THIS is why religion and church and Sunday school are really child abuse centers. Teaching kids that they are born sinners and have an eternal oven waiting for them is just inexcusable. Fuck anyone who believes in a single word of a single religion. Fuck all of you....
wolfwilliams 2 weeks ago 30
@wolfwilliams Hear, hear!
uscjd2004 1 week ago
@wolfwilliams I agree, And Christianity is the most fucked-up of all religions , I have a book that lists over 140 self-contradictions in the bible . If the REAL God of the Universe was gonna give us a book to live by it It would NOT have any self-contradictions and it Would be Logical and Scientific and Perfect in every way . The Bible is a fucken joke and Definelty NOT Holy !
nicktesla45 1 week ago
@wolfwilliams It's exactly why I consider religion a mental disorder. The idea that a voice in your head can make you do things, such as mentally abuse children, clearly points to some mental ailment that needs to be categorized as a disorder of the mind.
elspoko 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams Everyone is born with a sinful nature. The Bible says so. The only way to make it to Heaven is through Jesus.
MrMoonlight222 1 day ago
@MrMoonlight222 Jesus? Jesus Maldonado, my next-door neighbor? I doubt he knows the road to heaven, but I'll ask. Hang on...................... Nope. He's never heard of it. Aside from you being wrong about that, you're wrong about sinful natures. Humans are like any other animal; we're born with a survival instinct. As we grow, we get civilized and hopefully we learn behaviors that soften our harsher impulses. But sin? Go fuck yourself over sin. Sin is fiction. Go wipe your ass with your bible.
wolfwilliams 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams wow, way to take an extremist view and use it to hate all religions and all religious people. What must the priest have done to you?
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@TOMHYLE88 I was raised Methodist, not Catholic, but 6 of one, half dozen of the other... And what do you expect, me to be polite? Religion has fucked this world, and the people who follow religions have been the hammer. I have no use for idiots who are stupid enough to believe in fairy tales and then try to shape whole societies around them. You might as well build a temple to Bugs Bunny. The real problem with you people is that we've been too kind to you for too long. Go fuck yourself.
wolfwilliams 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams I usually fuck myself everyday, but I don't have to go anywhere to do it; I do it right here in the bed I'm writing from (ewwww! he ha ho; I'm not the one who brought it up!)
I didn't say anything about you being Catholic, because I don't know you. I noted you seem to have a powerful mental "complex" on this issue; I did go so far as to presume that that complex came out of trauma, as my extensive research and experience in that area gives me to believe is usual.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams I'm not sure what the source of your assumptions about me is ("you people"), but I assure you that you do not know me, and that the truth about me is free for the asking. But feel free to continue in your insulting, baseless assumption, whatever it is; it is obvious you have bigger challenges in life than being polite to me, so I forgive you.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams BTW, assuming Wolf Williams is your real name, I salute your using it; I don't understand about screen names; some kind of new fangled industrial tribal social thing that left old me behind; our evil corporate masters are pushing their agenda of social change so fast these days it's hard for me to keep up with, but it's basically all in "1984" more people should read "1984" to know what's going on and "the Prince" to know how our masters think. The Bible is past; history is,.....
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams ....the Bible is past; history is important, of course, as we do not wish to be condemned to repeat it, but we live in Hellish times, and dwelling in the past is no way to address them, alas.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@TOMHYLE88 Why even mention the bible? It's a joke. It's fiction.
wolfwilliams 1 day ago
@wolfwilliams You are correct that the Bible is literature and jokes (if written) and fiction (if written) are types of literature, but they are not the type of literature the Bible is. The type of literature the Bible is, is clearly "history"; a record of events. There's nothting particularly holy about most of it, and certainly, as with all histories, it is distorted through the cultural lense and sometimes through the propegandistic aims of its authors and editors. Very definitely history
TOMHYLE88 23 hours ago
@TOMHYLE88 Spare the lecture. If it's history at all it is history of a very peculiar sort, and very suspect in its accuracy. It's popular today only because humans are too fucking stupid to recognize a racket when they see one, and because the KJV is well written as translation. It casts a long shadow over Western Lit., I'll give it that, but that means zilch in terms of credibility for the horseshit "history" it contains. If it's 20% accurate as an historical document, I'd be surprised.
wolfwilliams 21 hours ago
@wolfwilliams well, do some research and prepare to be surprised. Your assignment is to read a magazine called Biblical Archaeology Review. It is not a religious magazine. It is a scientific magazine. The Bible is not a peculiar history. it is a very typical history. Like "all histories, it is distorted through the cultural lense and sometimes through the propegandistic aims of its authors and editor." like ALL histories.
TOMHYLE88 21 hours ago
@TOMHYLE88 Good for the bible, then. Let's grant it, oh, say, 90% accuracy on the historical stuff. Yeah for it. But that's hardly the point of the book. The supernatural mumbo jumbo in there is the real heart of the matter, and you know that. Fine, a temple was built here and there. A few armies waged a few wars. Irrelevant. But when you start off with a story as stupid as the Adam/Eve nonsense, you don't get the bulk of your credibility back after that. Just mentioning 'God' means you lose.
wolfwilliams 12 hours ago
@wolfwilliams No, I don't "know that" the "real heart" of the Bible is its cosmological and ethical content. What I have in fact said is that the real heart of the Bible is its historical content, and I cannot understand why anyone considers it a holy book.
"Just mentioning 'God' means you lose".....Wow; way to testify to your own closed mindedness.
TOMHYLE88 11 hours ago
@TOMHYLE88 I am proudly and absolutely closed-minded when it comes to religion. Fuck all of them, and fuck the people who are stupid enough to fall in line behind that bullshit. You want to be nice and offer respect to that nonsense, go right ahead. I have no use for people who live their lives based on fairy tales. You want to keep space in your brain for that shit, go right ahead. I hope you also keep room for the possibility that Daffy Duck created the universe. It amounts to the same thing.
wolfwilliams 11 hours ago
@wolfwilliams I'm sad that you are thinking and speaking out of such a place of hurt and anger. There is a world of beauty and depth available through religion, but I'm sure that you know best for your self. One must sometimes draw away from what is damaging, gain safety, calm down, and heal, before one can truly analyze what happened to cause the damage, let alone to reapproach the damaging situation for any other values it might have, like a surfer who goes back to The Sea after a shark bite
TOMHYLE88 11 hours ago
@TOMHYLE88 One, go be sad for someone else. Two, no hurt here. I've spent the last 25 years traveling and living in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, and I can tell you one thing for certain: Nowhere does religion do an ounce of good. The only "depth" it provides is to sink believers deeper into stupid traditions and superstitious habits. Don't play amateur psychiatrist with me, kid. Go live a little and get beyond the propaganda that religion and spirituality are somehow worthwhile pursuits.
wolfwilliams 11 hours ago
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TOMHYLE88 10 hours ago
@wolfwilliams Wow, Here's a hug, buddy.
TOMHYLE88 2 hours ago
@wolfwilliams and just on a pesonal note, and try to remember that you don't actually know what kind of person I am, the fact is that I am 41 years old, and "we' (society, normal people, etc.) have never been kind to me at all, so that shows how much you don't know.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
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@wolfwilliams and just on a pesonal note, and try to remember that you don't actually know what kind of person I am, the fact is that I am 41 years old, and "we' (society, normal people, etc.) have never been kind to me at all, so that shows how much you don't know.
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@zzzzz4203
jesuswordsonly(dot)com
thedagonjones 2 weeks ago
"let he without sin cast the first stone" no1 deserves hell
weetoable 2 weeks ago
Im a kid you douche
ThePokeFinder 2 weeks ago
@cctman- More archeological data on the exodus story
watch?v=QDDs8HgOZ4o&list=UU0cu3VCCiXgjJYtsGCQ6Hkw&index=25&feature=plcp
rooio3 2 weeks ago
@cctman- If you like here a some vids that go more in-depth on what is found and the biblical texts:
watch?v=Rmah-qoa_R4&feature=channel_video_title
watch?v=JlVyWzqu45w
watch?v=VjqJ6oJJnZk
watch?v=orEFbIlmulM
watch?v=mPL81kbArfE
watch?v=8OBH1j3ayLc
watch?v=ykPIdohcKbE&feature=related
watch?v=Yvu-leOT3y8
rooio3 2 weeks ago
@rooio3 Just so you know I'm not sure if Christine Hayes did most of those videos but I have provided some comments on problems that she has with her claims about the Exodus and ancient similarities in ancient writings between the canaanites and earlier Israelites. She makes some enormous extrapolations and assumptions not to mention her area of expertise is not in middle east archaeology and yet she makes everybody think she is an expert in that area. (cont...)
cctman 1 week ago
@cctman- The evidence of exodus does not originate with...Christine Hayes. That should be self evident. She simply talk about the findings established in archeology. None of these things originate with her, they were long established based on the data themselves. Everyone who studies archeology, especially egyptian archeology, will tell you such claims of exodus are nonexistent. Biblical archeology attempt to correlate biblical claims with findings, which is why it has fallen out
rooio3 1 week ago
@rooio3 As I pointed out earlier she only discusses her selected findings that support her theories. Anything else to the contrary she throws it out. Typical of evolutionists and even more so with atheists.
cctman 1 week ago
@cctman- of favor, due to obvious bias, with modern archeology who grew tired of trying to explain away inconsistencies in order to keep the biblical account together. What they do now, which is what they should have done, is try to explain the best possible scenario of the region on the basis of the evidence itself, regardless of whether or not they reflect claims made in a certain set of texts.
rooio3 1 week ago
@rooio3 I'm sorry... but have you even read any books by Biblical archaeologists? That's a serious question. If so by whom? Which books? And let me make this clear so I understand what your inferring. Are you claiming that most Biblical archaeologists believe that their is not enough evidence to support the Exodus?
cctman 1 week ago
@cctman-"Shes chooses to pick and choose the scholars that side with her points."- no she doesn't. She pointed out clear differences between different scholar opinions and....presented them. You simply don't like what she present. I give little credence to apologetics, who often produce more difficulties than they solve due to harsh and imbalanced polemics. The problem with "biblical " focus is the lack of knowledge concerning the other cultures and religions of
rooio3 1 week ago
@cctman- the region besides the Israelites, to show the many influences and identity of all combined, which is also reflected in archeology. That's where she shines. For biblical archeologists, I know of those who conducted excavations- Edward Robinson, Charles Warren, Frederick J. Bliss, William F. Albright, Elihu Grant, Benjamin Mazar, James Bennett Pritchard, Ruth Amiran, G. Ernest Wright, William G. Dever, Gabriel Barkay, Trude Dothan, Amihai Mazar,
rooio3 1 week ago
@cctman- Israel Finkelstein, David Ussishkin, Aren Maeir, Yosef Garfinkel, Avraham Biran, Nahman Avigad, Adam Zertal, John Garstang. Many of theses archeologist specialize in bronze age Israel and also Near Eastern archeology for the obvious fact that the two are interconnected to the region. As for archeological support of the exodus, we know there is no egyptian documentation for the exodus. Excavations of the Sinai Peninsula by biblical archeologists have turned up nothing.
rooio3 1 week ago
@cctman- There has been almost 200 years of archaeological research in Egypt and Israel, and virtually every modern archaeologist who has investigated the story of the exodus, agrees that the way the bible describes the exodus is not the way it happened, or never happened at all. This is old news. The question is, what evidence are you claiming support the exodus? And specifically what evidence in the field of archeology support any supernatural claims of the bible,as opposed to sites?
rooio3 1 week ago
@rooio3 Mind giving me a reference to back your claim? "...and virtually every modern archaeologist who has investigated the story of the exodus, agrees that the way the bible describes the exodus is not the way it happened..."
cctman 4 days ago
@cctman- Uh, for starters, why don't you start by looking up the archeologists who investigated and conducted excavations. Do the work yourself like everyone else, it's not hard to find. There's over a 200 year period of exploration of the area. Do you know how to conduct a proper research, or does someone have to hold your hand for that too? Some of the archeologists I listed were involved in these excavations. Try harder please.
rooio3 3 days ago
@rooio3 Don't try to spin your way out of this... Don't try to back your claim on an elephant hurling debate tactic. You made a claim now provide the evidence for it or acknowledge your either lying, misleading everyone and or have no clue what your talking about.
cctman 3 days ago
@cctman- Don't need to spin a way out of something that never was. I didn't make a claim, you did. I stated what what the archeological record show, and your ignorance of it. That was an indication to you to....do...proper......research. Thought that was clearly understood. I see I have to spell it out. I already gave you a clue, but I'm not going to do the work for you. Stop being lazy. If I can research the material without someone 'babying' me, so can you.
rooio3 1 day ago
@rooio3 "if I can research the material without someone 'babying' me, so can you" I love you. Are you a girl? If not, do you have a sister :)
TOMHYLE88 1 day ago
@cctman Exodus is a story in a book. Which archaeologists are saying the events in Exodus occured, just not the way The Bible described it?
Ciara62789 2 days ago
@rooio3 Furthermore I could not find one debate anywhere or forum where Christine Hayes opens herself up for critique to apologists or Hebrew scholars. I could care less if she spent her entire life at Yale, Harvard or Princeton. She needs to stay in areas of her expertise and not speculate into Biblical history where she has absolutely no authority in these matters. I would welcome a debate from her anytime on these maters. But I would imagine she will continue to hide behind a class room door.
cctman 1 week ago
@rooio3 On a side note... I would caution you with a word of advice on taking people as authority figures that have no expertise in these subject matters. Christine Hayes is a perfect example of this. Do you actually have any evidence from an actual Hebrew scholar or Biblical archaeologist on these matters against the Exodus interpretation given by the Bible?
cctman 1 week ago
@cctman- Please, tell me what you think an actual hebrew scholar or biblical archaeologist says regarding the exodus and the findings in archeology? I would find this particularly interesting. Because according to researched done by archaeologists and egyptologists for century, Israel had its origins in Canaan, not Egypt, leaving no room for the exodus of the wandering in the desert. What data exactly have biblical archeologist found that others haven't? Please tell me.
rooio3 1 week ago
@cctman- In the videos with Christine Hayes, she also talk about biblical scholars views of the texts. Which indicate to me you never watched most of the videos, or you rarely paid attention to them at all. Her focus is on religious studies, so she deal with Near Eastern Studies, not just Israel. She is a specialist in the history and literature of Judaism in Late Antiquity, & served as a professor of Hebrew Studies. You won't find her on forums or debates about
rooio3 1 week ago
@rooio3 Actually what she discusses is selected Biblical scholars. Shes chooses to pick and choose the scholars that side with her points. And I know for a fact she excludes much of the details, theories, recent findings, archaeological support for the Bible and only picks on what she thinks she can debunk. If she was so sure of herself I would love for her to step out in a public debate forum. I'm sure Craig would have a field day running circles around her.
cctman 1 week ago
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rooio3 1 week ago
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@cctman- whether god is real or not. Not every scientist, or biologist, or professor take part in such debates. You didn't comment on her video dealing specifically with the exodus (at the bottom of the list) or the other video of the archeological findings regarding the exodus I posted (separately above my video list post) which has nothing to do with her nor is she featured in that video, which tell me you probably didn't watch those videos, just the first one you commented on.
rooio3 1 week ago
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Makaveli7Soldier 2 weeks ago
Stupid kids biblical study , you actually study the bible . And yeah you like to teach religion but you have no idea what it is. Religion sucks I literally resent it. I'm a Christian and that's not a religion its a relationship with god. I'm 14 and I understand that . And everything is inevitable god has already set it up so stop worrying.
Chiefbigcorn 2 weeks ago
@Chiefbigcorn did god set up the massacre at columbine?and 9/11?
castelgandalf 2 weeks ago
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People go to hell because reject eternal life. Notice that Jesus said that the sins of men will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Children would SEEM exempt from this by reason of innocence.
zzzzz4203 2 weeks ago
@zzzzz4203 What exactly is blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Not believing? If so do you think a non-believer can ever come back to Christ and be saved?
littlebit19801 2 weeks ago
@zzzzz4203 Just another one of the convenient "catch-all" outs that religion gives itself, like the ludicrous "god works in mysterious ways" silliness. "Hey! If all people are born in sin, then dead babies must go to hell, right?" ... "No, no, no! We exempt them because they are innocent." ... "Oh, okay then. As long as there are exemptions we're all good here." .... What a crock of shit this whole thing is. Any 6-yr-old with half a brain sees through the whole charade.
wolfwilliams 1 week ago
@wolfwilliams
1. The Bible teaches clearly that we are NOT innocent. We are born in a fallen world because of our great... grand parents.
2. The BIble addresses sin being passed on to others through relationship representation through federal headship. Rom 5:12
3. A babes salvation is not addressed specifically in scripture however, we know King David said he would look to seeing his child in heaven when lamenting his child's death. But that could apply to only the saved.
cctman 1 week ago
@cctman Everything you just wrote is white noise to me. If you buy into that biblical nonsense, then you're just adding to the problem.
wolfwilliams 1 week ago
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zzzzz4203 2 weeks ago
Is it just me or does god sound like an abusive parent?
beutifulgoth 2 weeks ago
I'm not Christian, but I've read the entire bible more than once, and it portrays children as innocent and blameless. People wouldn't be deserving of Hell until they come to an age when they are able to truly understand right and wrong, basically when their conscience kicks in. By the way, I don't argue FOR any religion, so please don't attack me as though I am. I call both Christians and Athiests out when I know they've gotten something wrong.
TaysieGraves 2 weeks ago
@TaysieGraves I'm not commenting back to you to start an argument. Just a heads up. But, doesn't the bible say that jesus said to dash the little children among the rocks. And doesn't it also say to stone unruly children? It's been awhile since I've read the actual versus.
SuperMegaFl0yd 2 weeks ago
@SuperMegaFl0yd "Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!" (Psalm 137:9) I really don't know what that's trying to say lol, other than people are going to be happy when they dash your kids against rocks. Then there's this one: "Moses said to honor your father and mother and whoever curses father or mother, let him die the death" (Mark 7:10) I don't know what to make of them. The books in the Bible seem to contradict each other a lot.
TaysieGraves 2 weeks ago
@TaysieGraves Haha, very true. What gets me is that Christians are the people who say that the bible is the inherent, irrefutable word of god. Yet, when you show them verses like that they also say, "It's metaphorical. That shouldn't be taken literally. Yadda yadda yadda."
SuperMegaFl0yd 2 weeks ago
@TaysieGraves It's really not that cut and dry. It depends on people's stance on original sin, for one, and there are tons of conflicting passages in regards to this. In the early years of Christianity it was widely believed the unbaptized babies went to hell. That was still the normal view of it back when conquistadors would baptize and then slaughter native children in South America. As our morality shifted so too did the consensus on this question, it seems.
dawn0293 2 weeks ago
@dawn0293 And some say Hitler was a christian. The standard I would use on HItler is the same by which I would use for any conquistador. If they followed that act then obviously they were not Christian as that is not Christ like.
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman I was talking about original sin, you appear to be discussing something completely different.
dawn0293 2 weeks ago
@dawn0293 My bad... what do you mean by that then so I can give an informed reply...
cctman 2 weeks ago
@TaysieGraves what about the part when god orders the killing of the amalekites including children and babies?
castelgandalf 2 weeks ago
@castelgandalf i dont care cuz i'm doing to kill myself this week
TaysieGraves 2 weeks ago
"Chasing people around with whips?" What? Where in the world did you get that? Did she just make that up? A 9 month old child is safe. There is no iniquity in a child until they learn it later in life. The Bible clearly teaches this. God is going to torture you forever? You don't know ANY Bible... Seriously, stop trying or keep on arguing with your own "beliefs" of God and the Bible, because you aren't talking about true Christianity, or the Word.
tubehab 3 weeks ago
@tubehab- "Chasing people around with whips?" What? Where in the world did you get that?"- Jesus chasing the moneychangers out of the temple with a whip. "God is going to torture you forever? You don't know ANY Bible"- so there is no eternal torment? No lake of fire spoken of in the book of revelation? No second death, thus no resurrection? What then is the need for "salvation"? What do people need to be saved from? Do YOU know what's in your own bible? That's the question.
rooio3 3 weeks ago
@rooio3 God isn't going to torture anyone. Hell, Lake of Fire, Gehenna, Hades, and all those English words describe a condition. Everything from a graveyard, condition of your body, all the way to Hell/Lake of Fire, condition of your spirit after death, describe separation from God. If there is a with God, there is a without God. Being without God is the worst condition possible for the spirit which would be like "burning in fire". A person puts themselves into that condition.
tubehab 3 weeks ago
@tubehab Thank god for that!
FarseerRK 3 weeks ago
@tubehab But god doesn't exist, so there's nothing to be separated from.
punnet2 3 weeks ago
@tubehab-"condition of your spirit after death, describe separation from God."- Not according to the biblical text. If a person's "spirit" can continue after death, that would make them immortal. Which make no sense when the biblical texts describe the main "gift" of god to be....immortality. If a persons spirit can survive, there is no need for a "resurrection of a spirit body" described in the bible. Me thinks you don't understand your own bible and invent your own interpretation.
rooio3 3 weeks ago
@tubehab- That is according to christian theology. No such thing existed in the concepts of early ancient Israel. After a person died, that was it. Many of the concepts of ancient Israel were influenced from religions of the ancient near east where they originate. There isn't any such thing to begin with. All of this branched out of polytheism mythology, as discovered by archeological data. Israel simply adapted and modified these ideas into their own emerging religion.
rooio3 3 weeks ago
@earlysda cool story bro
CrikeyTomatoes 3 weeks ago
I am Christian totally. But if this were true at all, I would leave at once. There is no way and no where in the Bible that it mentions that.
xhemexx 3 weeks ago
I look to the day when we have a redeemed earth. One like the original created order. See Revelations. No disease, famine, death, no entropy. If God promised that we would return to the original perfect creation then how prefect would that be if we still had diseases, lions tearing apart lambs, tumors, blood shed in the animal kingdom. It's a good argument against gap and long age theorists.
cctman 3 weeks ago
waiting for those who call upon him. Reject him, he will aurally reject you. This is a spiritual battle for human souls. Hell exist and so does heaven. Without having your name written in the book of life, no one can enter period. I pray many will think and see, seek him. Confess your sin and know you are sinner and need of a Savior, less one can see their true sinful nature, they won't repent.
sungmee45 3 weeks ago
@sungmee45 he didn't return in the lifetime of the people listening to him as he said he would. his promises cannot be trusted.
castelgandalf 3 weeks ago
God does love, out of that love he gave man free will. That choice will determine your eternal destiny. Life is in the blood, without it life can continue to live. Because man sin from the creation, that curse continued. Jesus who lived a perfect life without sin, was willing to take our place and pay the price to purchase us back, so we don't have to face the wrath of God. He has to punish because he alone is holy God, without any sin in his present. Repent and seek him today. He is always
sungmee45 3 weeks ago
I can see how Lucifer loves this kind of debate and confusions. He loves leaving behind such deception in human conscience. He does exist, regardless what anyone desire to believe or not. Just because one can see, doesn't mean his filthy influence isn't working in those who reject the truth of Jesus Christ. All will see him, all will confess is he the Son of Living God. Lucifer time is very short, so is agents, demons & fallen angels. Without Jesus, all will land in Hell, eternal separation.
sungmee45 3 weeks ago
ug, WHY did I have to go and read Comfort's blog after this? He compares child rape to ... adult consensual sex "fornication" as also being evil "in god's eyes". He also automatically deletes comments that don't capitalize the word god. fuck that d bag.
MadBasstid 3 weeks ago
Why don't you worship me instead, and build churches in my name. Do it and I'll buy you a box of cookies. That's more than God will ever do for ya. :)
Apanzon 3 weeks ago
@Apanzon you are so awesome. your magical toes are as delicate as butter. praise be your name. now gimme some cookies. hhahaha
MadBasstid 3 weeks ago
@Apanzon I'll tell you what when you have a daughter that almost dies in the hospital which is considered the worst day of your life and then 8 months later you find your new adopted daughter you had been waiting on for 5 years was born the exact same day/time all the while you are being provided for without a job by Christians helping you in your life all followed by numerous other answered prayers then come to me and talk to me about worshiping something else. Testimony is everything.
cctman 3 weeks ago
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@cctman "Testimony is everything." And coincidence means nothing.
" I can't explain something I don't believe to be true, namingly that they are myths.Want to try again?"
Well sure, since I didn't say that in the first place. And I'll keep it a simple example : Psalm 14:1. How do you explain that the bible, that claims itself to be from a god of truth, states : everyone who says 'there is no God', does no good?
Atheists do good all the time, so how do you explain a 'God of truth' who lies?
TheHigherVoltage 3 weeks ago
@cctman So, I take it your(?) daughter is ok now? I'm glad to hear that. Plz raise her into a good, open minded person. :)
Apanzon 3 weeks ago
@cctman This somehow proves that the preposterous claims of your religion is true?
Perhaps you should take it up with the christians whose children have been molested by priests and pastors; or whose children suffered and died despite their prayers; or who have ruined themselves financially by donating to evangelists.
Or just stop employing selective reasoning.
punnet2 3 weeks ago
@punnet2 Or perhaps you could just open up a Bible and read about this thing called SIN and this thing in Genesis called THE FALL. That would be a start.
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman Sorry, but I have read genesis. Any book that by chapter 2 is talking about clay men and talking snakes holds very little credibility.
Any anyone who accepts such ridiculous fairy tales based on non-sequiturs and selective reasoning (as you demonstrated in your previous post) is running on rather low credibility himself, and really shouldn't be dispensing advice.
punnet2 2 weeks ago
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@punnet2 Really? LOL! So any book by chapter one first sentence that starts with millions of years ago... and refers to our great... parents coming from slime that fell of a rock 4.5 billion years ago holds very little credibility. Any anyone who accepts such ridiculous fairy tales based on non-sequiturs and selective reasoning (as you demonstrated in your previous post) is running on rather low credibility himself, and really shouldn't be dispensing advice.
Enjoy!
cctman 2 weeks ago
@punnet2 Makes my job easy when people are so easily put in their place by simply opening their mouths...
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman Certainly, if your job is to go running scared when your position fails. I pointed out to you that your original argument about your daughter's recovery and the charity of a some congregants did not amount to a valid argument. Your response was simply to preach from your book of ancient myths. Now having been shown that this too is fallacious, you respond with ... nothing.
Your cowardice has been noted. Thank you.
punnet2 2 weeks ago
@punnet2 Exactly what are you trying to say? Are you saying that my argument from my personal testimony is not valid when someone asks me how I know a God exists? And by what criteria must I adhere too? Yours?
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman That's exactly what I'm saying -- wasn't it obvious from my first reply?
-Selective reasoning: You focus on your own child's recovery, but ignore all the other children who suffer and die (despite prayers). Were those children just not good enough?
-Non-sequitur: Neither a child's recovery nor an act of charity counts as proof of a 6,000 year-old earth, a virgin-born zombie god, or any of the other nonsense in your bible.
So, no; personal testimony doesn't work here.
punnet2 2 weeks ago
@punnet2
Actually this has nothing to do with selective reasoning. Scripture clearly tells us that God blesses who he wants and creates and takes life from whom he desires when he desires. So your argument fails because the reasoning I use is not actually selective but very consistent with scripture.
The original question wasn't asking for proof for everyone it was asked of proof for me. There is a big difference. So not a Non-sequitur. Try again!
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman Tell me; If your daughter had not survived (as so many other children do not survive), or if the xians hadn't helped you, or if none of your prayers were "answered", would you consider your personal testimony just as strong? Because you're essentially saying now:
"When (something good) happens, obviously god gets the credit! But...when (something good) fails to happen, well...scripture says it doesn't always happen!"
This has everything to do with selective reasoning.
punnet2 2 weeks ago
@punnet2 That's a difficult one... I can say it would be very difficult and I'm not sure what I would do. I guess take one day at a time. I did in all honesty try to prepare myself for that very possibility of losing my daughter. I remember coming at peace between myself and God and praying if it was of his will then I would accept his decision. What hope else would there be apart from my belief in God to see her again if she did die?
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman Your ambivalence betrays the weakness of your position: By all indication you already believed in god so would have spun the outcome to confirm your faith either way; but likely had the outcome been tragic you would have simply kept it out of your "testimony".
As far as hoping to see her again had she died: It may be pleasant to think you will see a lost loved one again, but there is no rational basis for believing it to be possible. Hope is not equal to truth.
punnet2 2 weeks ago
@punnet2 "...but likely had the outcome been tragic you would have simply kept it out of your "testimony"" I'm curious as I already told you that before she was out of the danger zone so to speak I made peace in prayer that it was OK between myself and God if He had taken her. I would have still placed my trust in Him. So knowing I said this... Who are you to fortune tale the outcome of the situation as if I had lost her and reacted a different way?
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman Thank you for clarifying. Your present assessment appears to be: you made your peace with the possibility of your daughter dying only after it was clear she was not going to die. Got it.
"fortune tale"?
punnet2 2 weeks ago
@punnet2 "... but there is no rational basis for believing it to be possible." There is no rational basis for things you do every day of your life, yet we still perform these actions. Why would a mother jump in front of traffic to save her child if she knew she would be killed anyway? Rationally it doesn't make sense. It goes against the instinct to survive and yet she does it anyway. Hope is not truth but truth is assumed to often when it is not that which we perceive. i.e. Big Bang happened!
cctman 2 weeks ago
@cctman A mother acting (even in vain) is actually in keeping with the survival instinct -- to pass one's genes on. But I think you just admitted you have no rational grounds for believing in an afterlife, and believe only because you want to.
Are you implying on the other hand that the big bang theory isn't based on actual evidence?
punnet2 2 weeks ago
@cctman-"There is no rational basis for things you do every day of your life, yet we still perform these actions."- organism can still form meaning for themselves, even if their existence has none, as long as they are alive. Just because humans form meaning out of their lives, does not mean the universe has to have purpose. And it doesn't mean humans can't create purpose for themselves if there is none in the universe. You're basing all your reasoning off biblical texts as if
rooio3 2 weeks ago
@cctman-they are accurate reflections of reality. We know historically and archeologically they are not. Especially certain stories found in the first books. The creation and flood stories are simply Israelite adaptations o