Part 2: Father Thomas Keating interviewed by the Garrison Institute, Oct. 2008

[aaronkehl]

You cannot equate Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam with Christianity. Their beliefs are all fundamentally different and discordant. They all describe reality as having a different reason. Islam - to submit to God. Possibly one life

Buddhism - to find nirvana, to find peace with all things, etc...

Christianity - salvation through Christ, likely one life to live, not reincarnated.

Hinduism - reincarnation and karma

The fundamental beliefs of each religion are not in accordance.

[aaronkehl]

You're right, its not about quick slick answers. Thats not what I'm trying to do here. What I'm trying to do is get down to what is truth. Being quick and slick is for salesmen. Jesus doesn't want us to be salesmen, but followers of him. If we follow him, others who are seeking will see that, and find hope in that. Our fruits (our actions) will speak louder than our words because they will not be selfish, but loving. We don't need meditation for this. I'm not condemning meditaion,

[deputydorg]

been away 4 a bit. truth is beyond words.

feeble humans attempt to express the thruth with words. you fundies depend utterly on having the right words. missing the truth....

[aaronkehl]

without words truth cannot be expressed therefore no one can know about Jesus Christ. You wouldn't be a Christian today without words. You judge what I think without knowing me. And to call me a fundy I think you are labelling where you should realize your own advice that truth is beyond words. The truth of who I am and what I think about Christ is beyond words. YOur labelling is pathetic.

[aaronkehl]

I apologize, its not pathetic, but it is ignorant as you are making a meaning of who I am on my words. Therefore you too depend on words for your truth of who you think I am. The truth is in Christ, not in oneself. Salvation is not in what you do, its in What Christ did and is for people. Thats all I'm going to say. I don't want to argue with you about beliefs because without words you cannot express your belief either. Stop pretending you're superior in what you follow.

[deputydorg]

I love the way jesus said the kingdom of heaven is like..... It was common I heard for rabbis to use two or three stories in attempt to put one single point across. ...."Give me a break. Lazarus was with God, the rich man was in the hellish place that cannot be reached by those with God in heaven."

What if even those two places are simply states of mind that can be repented of in seconds...?

[aaronkehl]

believe what you want to. I really don't care. If all you want to believe in is spiritual mysticism and not factual reality thats not my problem. If its all just states of mind who gives a shit? It won't matter what you do in life then. You can do whatever you want and there will be no consequence after life. The most brutal unrepentant murderer, hitler, stalin, any twisted cult leader will not get punished for what they have done, and they have deliberately decieved people and enjoyed it.

[aaronkehl]

Seriously have the mysticism conversation with someone else... its a waste of my time. Been there, done that, discarded it. It gave me no ultimate meaning, and its wishy washy. Anyones reality is as good as any others, theres no ultimate reality either. Sure reality is what you make of it. But your perception of how things are are not the same as how things actually are. There is an ultimate reality regardless of whether or not you or anyone else agrees with it.

[aaronkehl]

Tell me then, if heaven is not a spiritual place, what happens after you die, where do you go? There are many verses in the bible Jesus talked about that were very definite about the sheep and the goats. About him telling people he never knew them when they knock. because they didn't help others. The 5 wise virgins and the 5 foolish. 5 wise put oil in their lamps and were prepared for the wedding. Look what meaning does your version of Christianity give you if there is no ultimate truth?

[stjoseph01]

I don't understand what you are saying. What is truth?

[aaronkehl]

"its totally real, totally present, so the divine presence is not only within us- and has to be, if God is existence, which seems to be about as close to a good definition as anyone has come."

God is existence? If God is all there is, he is also evil. Evil that which is not of God, according to Christian fundamental doctrine. So Keating believes God is existence? Hmmm, that is not Christian. Prove me wrong. Then he goes on to talk about some Hindu teacher...do hindus believe in our saviour?

[porkyo123]

maybe so with hindus? many will say in my name jesus,jesus and i will say i never knew you. faith without works is dead. become perfect like my father in heaven.God will judge all men and he knows all hearts.we can have tons of knowledge and be a rectum and be saved ,or we can meditate and become a more relaxed loving person. who then is saved? Love God with your...

[deputydorg]

"If any man open the door i will come into him and sup with him and he with me"....get with the beat...its all metaphor....thanks for your post. Hell is your ego. Heaven is your spirit in christ. ENJOY!

[aaronkehl]

So when Jesus was talking about the story of Lazarus and the rich man, he was only talking in metaphor? Give me a break. Lazarus was with God, the rich man was in the hellish place that cannot be reached by those with God in heaven. Jesus also said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And what about the goats on the left hand and the sheep on the left? Two very different groups, one accepted by God and the other not. That may be metaphorical in description but its not in reality.

[deputydorg]

Salvation, Born Again - its the same principles as Enlightenment and Awakening to your sin nature and God.

Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within you.

Yet God is also everywhere.

[porkyo123]

I heart the correct translation for the kingdom of heaven is within you, is the kingdom of heaven is amongst you meaning of course Jesus being there with the people. him being the kingdom nothing inside of us. i know that the kingdom of HELL is in me any time I want to reach it! LOL

[aaronkehl]

This old guy is so off base, hes not a true Christian. hes more of a buddhist. its bullR@p. All relates to God. Yeah thats true. For God or against God. And Id say this guy is not for. Because he is for a lot of other religions that are pagan and pagan beliefs. He is so far away from Christianity. In the bible it doesnt talk about awakening or enlightenment. It talks about salvation from sin and forgiveness. Our hope is not in ourself, which it seems he is saying. It is in Jesus.

[porkyo123]

aaronkehi read your scriptures. jesus does not let us off that easy. narrow is the gate,i never knew you,become perfect like my father in heaven etc. this guy is talking far beyond your thoughts. im sure he's already delt with your way of thinking. dont worry about all other religions worry and responsible for your own soul.father tom loves Jesus just as much as you do,so get off the judgement throne. you cant put God in a box and be careful some buddist might get to heaven before we do!

[aaronkehl]

I would like keating to explain how his teachings realate to Christs, I really would. The truth is, we all have a personal bias here, keating, you and me. WE all have an idea of how we think Christ is, and how the way is. It doesn't talk about us finding the way in ourselves, however....Jesus said "I am the way". Not, "you will find the way in yourselves". I think Keating puts too much emphasis on mysticism than on the true fundamentals of Christ. I agree to disagree with you porky. OK.

[porkyo123]

Maybe sobut I'm sure keating has thought like you and I along time ago.jesus did say go into your closet and bolt the door.

[porkyo123]

scripture also says the.spirit knows what we R gonna ask before we do. psalms tell us to b still and no that i am God. dont think Jesus is worried about us going inside i think it mks us better christians.fundamental thinking is just a religion of the mind to me and a religion that becomes who has the quick slick answers instead of who has a better transformation of the HEART.

and that's where centring prayer can bring you.people just keep projecting fear into you and control.

[aaronkehl]

" people just keep projecting fear into you and control. "

Which people? about fear, I believe this with all my heart, that if you have faith that God is truly with you, the fear will have no power over you. It says in the bible that you will not fear if you have God. It also says Jesus is lord over all principalities and powers. Do not trust in man alone but trust firstly and foremost in God, to lead and guide you. This contemplative prayer is really meditation not prayer. Pray for God's

[aaronkehl]

"be still and know that I am God" does not mean meditate. I'm going to be frank here, I used to be involved in the new age movement when I was around 19 years of age, and I did meditation. The experience did not strengthen me spiritually, and I realized that there is nothing there for me. When I pray (with words or not) I bow my head, with humility before God, not trying to find my own peace, in and of myself, but to ask God for his peace. Meditation does not require the humbling before God

[porkyo123]

We're not sure what be still means,we're just asuming.mabe it does not strengthen you,but that cannot b said 4 all! someone said i would rather see a sermon than hear one.prayer is speaking to God meditating is listening to God.you wont go to hell for meditating.sometimes sitting in silence ising better than babling on & on.LOL God knows wh we need before asking.

[aaronkehl]

I didn't say that. Of course meditating is not anything really wrong or of sin. I agree, sometimes praying without speakin is good. I just know though, that this guys far out there, in his thinking. Its almost like he respects the thoughts of buddhists and hindus more than he respects Christian thought. I mean like you said maybe in the past he wasn't like that, but he sure is in these vids. "ooh that hindu guru said this" and I think he goes too deep into mysticism, when its unnecesary

[aaronkehl]

I don't know why you like and defend this guy so much. Is his way of thought near and dear to you? Personally I've seen his kind a lot - in a new age bookstore, but they didn't pretend to be under a veneer of Christianity. They just meditated. But this guy takes their beliefs and tries to mix and match, and put them together. Thats like me, saying " Oh yeah, I'm a sufi, a tibetan buddhist, and a Muslim. It doesn't work, it doesn't go together, and if it did it would be some far out belief.

[aaronkehl]

Like his is.......quite far out.

[porkyo123]

you will know them by there fruits not by saying the right words. i believe the centering prayer just mks you relax deeply and also bring up alot of emotional stuff. i dont think its any hocus pocus that's gonna cause you to shake hands with the devil LOL.

[aaronkehl]

Lets just say Keating is a part of the post modern church which has introduced a lot of new age types of ideologies to their version of Christianity, and often times it totally waters down the doctrine to from" we want to help people become true followers of God to "we just want to offer a comfortable place for people to relax and become enlightened and find the God in themselves". There is a monumental difference between the two kinds of beliefs, and churches...

[porkyo123]

Need to go sleep

[aaronkehl]

Let me just add to what I said earlier: Jesus once addressed this as well....he said the scriptures state that "ye are gods" (translated as mighty ones). We ARE NOT powerless, I have never said that, never will. God gave humanity power to judge, to reason, to determine, to have compassion, etc...God gave us power, however, the powers we have are not enough for us to find salvation, and healing for our wounds or cleansing from sin. And yes I do read the scriptures. I advise the same 4U.

[porkyo123]

Well Said.

[8132718]

There was no sound on any of the three Father Keating videos. I am so disappointed. Do others have this same problem. You can see the lips moving, but no sound is coming out.

[claudelebel55]

No problems at all.

The problem is on your end.