Surely the biggest sticking point here is whether one believes in continuing revelation from God or not. If one doesn't then all of this makes no sense. If one does then it's very possible God can still talk to man and still reveal His Divine Will to man, even regarding when to start and stop plural marriage and why. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I agree with LDSguy27, I also like Brother Madsen's discussion as well.
Read the book "Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy" by Richard and Pamela Price to learn the truth. The Restoration Book Store has this book which tells you a lot of the facts that LDS, & FLDS people have no idea of, this disproves their beliefs. The quote of LDS D&C section 132 is direct proof as Joseph Smith never wrote that section and niether is it a revelation of GOD. Section 101 (deleted by LDS) of the 1835 D&C is a direct contradiction of section 132 look it up folks!. Emma lived to an old age!
My grandfather Grandfather was a Polygamist with 8 wifes and 24 children When I was born 70 years ago I had enough cousin to fill a ward house I remember the insest was combine merging of relationship marrying of illegal half brothers and sister and other older uncles auntes. I am glad I left that false theology That is not restoration gospel Its a puppy mill
I will preach on the plurality of gods. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" ("King Follett Discourse") = Changeable and not eternal.
"I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity" (Moroni 8:18) = Unchangeable and eternal.
@chanses2 If you don't believe that, then you don't believe that Jesus Christ is an "unchangeable" God. For He "changed" forms as well, from a child to a man. Joseph Smith is repeating this idea with God the Father. Think of "God" as a state of being rather than specific persons. God is eternal, that state of being will never change. God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are all Gods. And no, that doesn't make this polytheism, for they are all one in the same purpose.
@Riza007 In a gentle spirit. The word "God" originates from “invoked one.” -> origin or association with Hindu Sanskrit, It's wrong to use the word God, since it's inaccurate with what the original Hebrew texts tell about Elohim Yahuwah, which is the Hebrew name of our Creator. Elohim is merely a spirit being that is omnipresent in space and time, and created everything out of nothing, almighty and eternal, and who was in the past eternity. "Let us make" said Elohim. Also read Rom 5.
You all need to watch the movie as many times as you need to until common sense strikes you between the eyes. It was not for wickedness. History bears that much witness.
Watch the video and let common sense come flooding into your hearts and minds. See the historic reality of why Mormons did polygamy, their motivations, feelings, and thinking on the issue.
If anyone has any doubts about whether this principle is of God, watch the video again, because you missed something. Then, go to your Father in Heaven and ask if the things spoken here are true.
Its kind of funny that if something is in the bible the mormons think that God approves of it. The bible ,unlike the BOM is an accurate recount of history and records good and bad. If Joe Smith had murdered someone the Mormons would say It was Ok because people in the bible were murdered so God must be OK with it. Polygamy and all kinds of sin are in the bible but God approved of none of it . Thats why He came to save us.
@blutowpi I beleive the Bible to be part of our collective works and I believe it to be inspired of God. But to say that the Bible is an accurate recount of history? No, it is not historically correct. however I am not here to tear at your faith. But I would suggest that you hold the Bible under the same test as you would the BOM. You have to be honest about it.
mormonism is not Christianity, it is polytheism, using Christ as a lure, mormonism doesn't teach Christ for salvation, it teaches work of man for salvation. Polytheism entails polygamy. mormons will follow joe to their deaths, just like he said, he wasn't talking about physical death, he was talking about spiritual death. My anger towards mormonism grows more each day.
@AnnymsVoice Amen. They are all brainwashed like little robots saying " I know the church is true". Every missionary I talk with spouts the same mantra . Their Jesus never existed, their god is a fairy tale and their salvation is them striving and pretending to be righteous in their flesh. The poor folks have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge and will go to hell if they continue believing the rubbish they are spoon fed from birth. The mormon leaders know they are not "prophets"
@blutowpi - That is what is so dangerous about mormonism, growing up saying, "I know the church is true", makes it hard to recognize the truth. The benefit, about growing up mormon, and then receiving faith from God, is they become some of the most powerful teachers for Christ. Shawn from Heart of the Matter for one.
@arcvar59 Did they have multiple wives because God told them to or did they do it of the flesh ? Abraham did it out of unbelief and his child of the flesh has been a curse to Isaacs progeny to this day. David lusted for Bathsheba in his flesh and ended up commiting murder to cover his sin. Joe Smith of course did it for spiritual reasons.HA HA , sure. There is a show on called sister wives where a traditional Mormon family lives true Mormonism . They follow Joe and Bungham Youngs example .
@Chinaculiacan Like I said, many Old Testament prophets and such were able to practice polygamy because the Lord specifically allowed them to at that time.
If you accept the Bible, we have to accept everthing that goes with it. Why does everything have to be motivated by sex? If being married to 1 wife should't be only about sex, why should being married to more be any different?
This is a voice of reason. So many hypocrites and liars here on the boards. Maybe not intentional. Tell me, why did Abraham have more than 1 wife? And many other biblical prophets figures. Yet the families of the earth were blessed because of him.
@Sibelius19 I hate to tell you but Abe and Sarah screwed up because they didnt believe God. Sarah didnt believe at her age she could bear a child so she told Abe to take her handmaiden to have a child. The child born of the flesh has been to Isaacs children a curse to this day. Polygamy is never a good thing . God never endorsed it but lustful sinners did it on their own. In the new testament a husband is to have 1 wife. If Joe had ever read a bible he might have not made that mistake.
Would you call Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, and others perverse because God commanded them to practice polygamy? That would make God perverse! A person like Warren Jeffs is perverse because he is practicing polygamy without Gods consent. He is doing it for his own gratification. When God commanded the practice to be stopped, it became illegal. If a man practices polygamy without God's OK , it is a sin. It was only done with the sanction of God. Joseph Smith at first was averse to it.
@fatcaesardlb Any man having children with a black woman must be beheaded, and his children must be killed:
“And if any man mingle his seed with the seed of Cane [sic] the ownly [sic] way he could get rid of it or have salvation would be to come forward and have his head cut off & spill his Blood upon the ground it would also take the life of his children...” (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, recording a speech by Brigham Young, January 16, 1852, typed copy; original located in LDS Church Archives)
Truman Madsen is totally full of crap just like the MORmON religion. Madsen is a crap spewing excuse making stooge of LDS Inc. This video proves that MORmONISM is man made idiocy. If god really was on board with polygamy to raise up seed for LDS, then why didnt female to male births soar for the LDS.
@carkunkula So you think they beleive man=Jeffs is the prophet but don't they see they have died. Every man before jeffs says they were or are the prophet, but jeffs will be jailed for many years..So how can they be religous and mormon at the same time i wonder..>>I have been trying to study there beleifs and all other crap that i am hearing. I have watched and researched many things on this POLYGAMY and MORMON, they go hand and hand..I am lost and confused by this whole darn subject..
@reneekelly68 there is nothing to be confused about. MORmONS LIE incessantly! stop believing them, look at the obvious & you wont be confused any longer. MORmONS said they were going to fill the earth with the MORmON restoration, but instead of sticking to that business they started screwing little girls & other mens wives, & then ran off to the isolation of Utah to keep it up. Its simply debauchery & excuses (LIES). MORmONS are brim full of CRAP & EVIL !
I love how he tells us that if men really wanted this jsut for indulgence and gratification, there are much easier ways to do so, and plural marriage is difficult to maintain, so it makes no sense to do it for gratification.
@ThePippindude oh come on how gullible can you be...any man would wanna be banging 5 diffrent women...i love the denial that these men just wanted a harem and uused religion as an excuse..amazing how gullible some peopel are ..smitha ..was a con and a charlatan who wrote his own bible.
@DrRocksotheClown Seriously, if he wanted to "bang" 5+ women, he wouldn't have to marry them all to do it, its a lot harder than just not marrying. If this is what Smith wanted, he would not have said that we should not have sexual relations outside of marriage. Don't you think he would have lied and decreed that the Lord said that we should encourage sexual relationship outside of marriage? But he didn't say that...
@ThePippindude When asked if he was practicing polygamy, Smith LIED and said he wasn't. If it was such an important commandment, why all the secrecy and deceptive?
@ThePippindude He didn't ha?Lucinda Morgan Harris 1838 already married to George W Harris. Zina Hunting Jacobs Oct 1841 age 20 already married to Henry Jacobs. Presendia Huntington Buell Dec 1841 age 31 already married to Norman Buell.Sylvia Sessions Lyon Feb 1842 age 23 already married to Windsor Lyon. Mary Rollins Lightner Feb. 1842 age 23 already married to Adam Lightner.. Patty Bartlett Sessions march 1842 age 47 already married to David Sessions. You want more?
@ThePippindude Do you really think he would have said that, knowing that he had the law behind him? hum? another blind as a bat! You keep defending your pedophile of a prophet, you'll be looking at who Joe was!
@ThePippindude God frowns upon polygamy; the first one is Deuteronomy 17:17, where God says that kings are not to take multiple wives—a warning specifically to kings, because kings would be in a much better position to take multiple wives than the average person. So if the king must not, then the average man should not either. In Paul’s letters in the New Testament, having more than one wife disqualified a person from leadership in the church.
@Chinaculiacan I agree, mormonism can easily be shown to be nonsense, but there's no point quoting the bible to prove it, as that's just a fictional story, or group of them, put together hundreds of years after the event. The bible is full of untruths, contradictions and evil. Not an argument in favour of anything apart from evil.
@Chinaculiacan Untruths - just a few examples - Noah's Ark, 1000yr old people, virgin births, resurrection, angels, creation. All disproved! Contradictions - Kill the amalacites....yet love thy neighbour, Go to hell if you disobey god.....yet god is loving, and forgiving, only 2 gospels (the story of jesus's life) mention the virgin birth! Virgin birth meaning jesus was son of god......yet "all the graves of israel opened" is hardly mentioned. Actually read the book don't cherry-pick.
@sids500 Your flesh will tell you what flesh tell, the spirit will tell you what the spirit tells, But if don't have the Holy spirit, you will never know! If u don't believe what the bible says, is your choice, the Bible had been proved true with archeological evidence, dates, people, events and so on! Kill the amalacites, OT= (law), love ur neighbour= (grace) NT. Emmanuel= Son of God, God still God whether you believe or not! I don't worry 4 u, I was 1 like u, Peace came with it! Do u have it?
@Chinaculiacan Spirit? another made-up consiliatory device to attempt to explain what you don't yet, and may never, understand. Most of the bible contains references to things that we now understand, but did not at the time, like germ theory, meteorology, cosmology. It's exciting to keep discovering. If you just accept this old book of stories, discovery stops, life becomes drab and uninteresting. Maybe that's what you like about it? Pretty mean god. You can attain peace without these lies.
@Chinaculiacan It is, as you say, everyone's choice. As far as I can see, all the good things religion brings can be attained without it. And all the evil done in the name of religion could be avoided without it. A fully secular world would be such a nicer place to live. We could all then truly live in peace, and enjoy this one chance of a good life. How wonderful that would be? And you have answered none of my questions. "Kill the amalacites, OT= (law)"? You need to think more critically.
@sids500 “Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man,” Romans 1:22-23 Stay the way you are, and be who you are!! Take care
@Chinaculiacan Quoting from an old book of stories and myths is not really an argument, but then that's often what i get in replies from the religious. Not much point continuing this one. Have a good life, and look forward to your rewards in the after-life, even if that means you waste all of this only and only one, praying, preaching and closing your mind.
@ThePippindude So there is no place in the Bible where God commands polygamy, or where he says it is a good thing. There are many places in the Bible where God states that his plan for marriage is one man, n 1 woman. (For example, 1 Corinthians 7:2, each is 2 have their own wife or husband) but hey! your prophet was a Christian! and u guys call yourselves christians t2 right? u re a joke of a Mormon! r u a jackmormon? lol, u r stupid thats what u r, for defending this joke of a man called Joe!
I am constantly in AWE of the fact at how well the Modern Day Mormon Church can dissociate itself from Polygamy when it's history it literally drenched in it. Not only that, but it's future is covered in it as well. For example, Joseph Smith proclaimed polygamy to be a a "true and E V E R L A S T I N G covenant" . EVERLASTING. take a minute to process that word.. not only that, but the Mormon Church endorses polygamy in heaven. Section 132 D&C.
@amyleoness The everlasting part does not mean that it will be practiced at all times. It simply means that the principle itself is everlasting and so are the eternal covenants associated with those who enter into it. And so it is. If you read either the Book of Mormon or the Bible, it is plain to see that polygamy was not practiced at all times. The greater principle is "follow the prophet". You will NOT be led astray.
@unirrational : You admit then, that the Principle itself is "everlasting". So, then, you believe in Polygamy on some level. This is my point exactly. Thank you!
@amyleoness You obviously don't understand that sentence. Let me explain. When THE LORD (not Joseph Smith) said it was an everlasting covenant, He means that the sealing to multiple wives in the temple to be sealed as a family for eternity was allowed at the time. It is not that it would be allowed forever, but that the sealing to multiple wives would be recognized in Heaven, as long as the sealing was allowed by the Lord at the time he said it could be.
@ThePippindude Any man can say The Lord said! U understand that? The Lord said it could be so? Another blind! Like the angels of Heaven, Mathew 22:30 look at Mathew 3:7 and maybe you’ll learn something, Angels are immortals creators that don’t reproduce, therefore there’s no need to get married. The Saints will have the same Characteristics. What about the husbands of the ladies alreary married to other men? didn't they have anything to say about that? oh i forgot, God told him to right? bla bl
@ThePippindude Marinda Johnson Hyde April 1842 age 27 already married to Orson Hyde. Elizabeth Davis Durfee June 1842 age 50 already married to Jabez Durfee. Sarah Kingsley Cleveland june 1842 age 53 already married John Cleveland. How about little girls, behind Emmas back?Her Names, Helen Mar Kimball 14, Nancy Maria Winchester 14, Flora Ann Woodworth she was 16 Joseph was 37. At this age Jose had married 21 women. Yeah sure, he slept with Emma only!! big lol
@ThePippindude Mark 12:18-25 Read it, and maybe you'll understand something, because you prophet sure didn't understand 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given into hospitality, oh he did more than that, apt to teach, he taugh, to tell other mans wives they are 2 b his wives, lol. or he was just playing stupid, No, that wasn't it! he just could control his pipe. and took advantage of his followers wives and daughter!!
Mormons : Onde estão as provas? O DNA dos povos americanos não batem em
nada com o DNA hebraico. mas sim com dna de um povo na Asia.
arqueologia: nada foi encontrado, pela historia de moroni, que diz sobre a ultima batalha proximo ao monte cumorah, deveria ter neste local muitos equipamentos de guerra daquela época., já encontraram restos de carroças de guerra numa parte, a mais rasa, do mar vermelho, tudo indica ser do exercitodo faraó.MORMONS ONDE ESTÃO OS RESTOS DA BATALHA NO MONTE CUMORAH?
@BaurakAle7 Honestly, I am not going to search every post you have made. I have heard so many lies from you people it's ridiculous. If you want to email me all your complaints, then I will point them out. I actually do know the doctrine. The Godmakers is trash.
@BaurakAle7 I don't make nasty remarks about someone's religion. I just looked at a 1971 copy of the D&C and the verse you mention is identical to what's online. Are you lying again?
@BaurakAle7 You are a fool. I teach the true Gospel. How can you honestly say I am keeping people from the LDS church. All one needs to do is study and pray and they will know it's true.
@BaurakAle7 I do know the faith I defend, and I don't see anything wrong with D&C 132:6. I will not comment on Paul, unless you are specific. I have a D&C from before 1990. What's your point? I don't have it with me right now.
Smooth Words and voice in no way authenticate polygamy as moral and good. Read the polygamy revelation (I posted it) It nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts, defines innocent blood, threatens his wife with death and more! Does that sound like choice? Moral? It led Directly to the Mountain Meadows Massacre, where the 55 murderers were under the Mormon Endowment Ceremony Oaths. Mormon Polygamy gave Parley Pratt the "right" to take "gentile" wives to themselves w/ impunity. All true.
@LDStothecore Well, you better help me and others to understand the meaning of "nullifies all non Mormon Marriages and Contracts", Innocent blood, and threatening his wife with murder and thus by extension all disobedient wives, plural. I also understand this document led directly to the Mountain Meadows Massacre thru the instrumentality of Parley Pratt. It was Necessary to "Avenge the Blood of the Prophets" sworn in the Endowment Ceremony, which is of course tied to the Polygamy Rev. Follow me?
@LDStothecore You must be a milk Mormon, I'm sorry. Go to my page and type in polygamy revelation. I posted it more than once. I show the text in print so you, the ignorant, can read it. Then you can, as Joseph Smith said, Like it or lump it He mentions 10 virgins and marrying them, too. Take a read at it, it will help you to understand how Christian lives are threatened by such blasphemy. This hubris led to Pratt taking a mans wife, using Mormon law and later Mormon action at MMM
@LDStothecore Milk Mormon is one that is unaware of the first 70 years of Mormonism, just yesterday, really. Someone who is unaware of the polytheism and polygamy in it and the extent polygamy was practiced by Joseph Smith, B Young, one that is unlearned in the Danites, Someone unfamiliar with the history of the Endowment Oaths/Ceremony, etc. A non meat eater
I would believe this guy were not for the fact that Joesph Smith and others married the wives of other faithful members of the Church who had just as much right to Eternal marriage and being seal to their sweet hearts. Rather than that they were asked to give their wives up to Church leaders. It just is not right!
This presupposes that God is so stupid that He could not forsee the misery that polygamy would bring to the world.
It does not explain why Joseph Smith began to practice polygamy, including marrying teenagers and the wives of other men (sent on missions by Smith) long before he announced the supposed revelation of polygamy.
Also, the idea that there was a shortage of women is a lie that the church historians were excommunicated for revealing.
Today tens of thousands of American women who are single or lesbian turn to artificial insemination to have families. A man who is healthy and intelligent might create 3, 10 or more children through donations. Polygamy is a bit different -- in this case a man takes multiple wives and commits to them, and the children each woman conceives. Perhaps many women who today use AI would consider living in polygamy rather than raise kids without a fatehr.
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I myself hava four wifes. i musta beat them savagely or they donta do whatta I tell them to do. My neighbor he a tells me he is a gonna call the police on me for the beatings I give them. I tell him, "I have married them. They are my property. I will beat them when I want. Mind your own business". The best thing abouta plural marriage is you have four different woman, each with three holes. Thatsa twelve holes to choose from. I supporta the polygamy.
The only reason we stopped it is because our people were being persecuted, our leaders were being thrown in jail, and the government was threatening to destroy our temples. Temple work is more important than polygamy, so we had to compromise. Look at the LDS splinter groups that are practicing polygamy, they have to live their life in utter secrecy for fear of being arrested.
@05lowell05 Members of the Church like you scare the Hell out of me and make me wonder if raising my beautiful daughters in this Faith was the right thing to do or not because anyone who thinks like you do would turn yourself and your family right back to living polygamy again were it authorized again. Just like a dog to it's vomit.
Actually I'm no longer a member of the church. I do have a question for you though, why are you a Mormon if you reject polygamy? Don't you know it was a fundamental tenant of the church in its early years?
I might also add that the only reason I advocated polygamy was because there is no way around accepting it, being Mormon. Anyone who is a part of any church, yet only cherry-picks the pieces of doctrine they like while ignoring the rest is simply an individual who is in denial. If you're a Mormon who rejects large parts of LDS doctrine, I would suggest leaving the church altogether, as Mormonism is not the kind of religion where you can believe one part and denounce the other.
what a good man... has much knowledge on the matter. it would be so hard to except this principle but i feel that he is right in everything that he said.
No one should listen to this unless they are willing to open up their hearts and minds to principles which they had not before contemplated... Even members of the church would rigidly reject this ... ... amazing ... how narrow minded people can be
JS started polygamy. But JS never did support and provide for his polygamous wives. The others just followed his direction. So to say that "libertinism" wasn't the impetus for polygamy is false. The speaker hasn't thought this through.
Truman Madsen is also gainfully employed by BYU. This is not truthful. Smith was arrested for burning down the Navuoo compositor news paper printing house because he was outraged that they had published his (Smiths) secretive polygamist activities.The LDS marketing machine never depicts the truth of Smith and his adventures.
No mention of his first wife Emma being kept in the dark about his many affairs.
No mention of him marring wives of other members that he had sent on missions abroad.
Where did you get that information? Oh, yes, that's right. LDS publications. Such as the Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, etc. How can you claim we hide such facts if we publish and sell the books? Moreover, you can read them for free online!
And what is the problem there? The missionary discussions are given to provide the basics, and that is all. They are by no means intended to teach deep doctrine. Deep doctrine is for those who want to do the research themselves.
What about Joseph Smith marring the wives of other faithful priesthood holders like Henry Jacobs who gave up his wife Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young to both of the early Prophets, having sons with her in between both marriages
YES!!! I now BELIEVE!!! Thank You Prophet Smith!!! Now for starters...I WANT 30 wives ages 14-25 and they must all be Virgins! God says so directly from Joe and NO ONE and No one can tell me otherwise!!! I'm LDS! By the way...I want twins and sisters!
Readers can tell which writer is living a life most in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ by observing how much love and respect they show to those with whom they disagree. If someone is calling other people names, using hateful language, or showing other signs of a heart full of negativity, you know not to trust what they say as truth. If you want real information, speak to someone who is respectful and reasonable.
Would that also apply to Jesus Christ, jamgourd? He was CONSTANTLY calling the Pharisees "whited wall" and "hypocrites", "adulterous", "liars"--"corrupt and full of unclean spirits".
Your self-elevating, holier-than-thou proclamations, as well as all other LDS proclamations are, as they say, worthless as tits on a boar HOG!!
If it pains your sensitive soul THAT much, I have a simple solution. See that big "X" in the upper right hand corner? Just click on it and the mean ol world will just melt away--and all your heart-felt concerns with it. And your little LaLa Land Fairytale will reappear, and all will be well, in Zion, once again!
You know you talk about "syrupy sweet LDS books" which is true there are plenty of them, but I have also seen plenty of syrupy sweet Evangelical Christian books too. It just depends on what the subject matter is. I've seen some excellent syrupy sweet LDS books that really had a great message that is universal to Christians everywhere. I think you believe (this is how you come across) that no good could ever come from the LDS Church or the LDS people but I know that just is completely untrue.
I resopnded earlier to your charge of me thinking that no good comes from LDS--showing that you don't read my responses.
The syrupy sweet reference was with the fact in mind (along with many other examples) that the 1998(?) Priesthood Manual called The Teachings Of Brigham Young, said NOTHING about his polygamy--NOT ONE WORD in the 200+ pages, but painted BY as having only ONE WIFE. His favorite teaching topic!!
You can find this "whitewash job" ALL OVER Mormonism!! WHY--if it's true??
If you look at that manual you will see that they have at least placed [ ] where they have changed a word. I know about the "wife" vs. "wives" issue. "You can find this "whitewash job" ALL OVER Mormonism!!" That's another extreme faulty generalization. Sure there are changes but to what degree and how much and where is the question. A modern LDS manual that does not include polygamy of BY when its subject matter is about improving modern marriage really is not much of an argument.
The TITLE of the BY Teaching Manual was "The TEACHINGS of the prophet Brigham Young. One of his major "teachings", if not THE MAJOR teaching of his was Plural Marriage.
Your insistence that this "modern LDS manual" is about "improving modern marriage" is incredibly naive and grossly ludicrous! A really DUMB attempt to twist reaLITY...
"Bullshit, Star!" Right back at you there dough head. I know what the manual was. I have a copy of it and I read & studied it several years ago. The modern manuel was created to bring the teachings of all of the LDS prophets from Joseph Smith to the present into congruence and to help mothers be better mothers, fathers better fathers, Husbands better husbands, wives better wives, etc. and so on. You're the one who is grossly naive.
ME? Naive? You are as funny as a truckload of dead babies, Star!
I'M not the one that reads the manual in question, and sees nothing askew in it
(no mention of polygamy (plural marriage) by the guy that started IT ALL!!
The PERFECT DEFINITION of "naive"!!
THe fact that I questioned the absence of even the WORD polygamy in that lesson manual, ought to demonstrate that the naive one here is not me, but YOU, Svb!
"I resopnded earlier to your charge of me thinking that no good comes from LDS--showing that you don't read my responses." Oh on the contrary, I do read your responses and think about them. Sometimes you may not communicate your beliefs very well and that may be the breakdown in communication.
NOW, rather than attempting to make my failures THE issue, try dealing with things of substance within Mormonism--like the lesson manual I mentioned above, "Teachings of The Prophet Brigham Young"--that you so conveniently
Well, I think the Mormon Church is the largest RELIGIOUS fraud in the world. The number one liar in the world would have to go to the United States Government.
Mormons are the worlds biggest liars. They deny everything. They are okay with a Prophet getting on Larry King and telling the world polugamy started in Utah when JS was a polygamist and never came to Utah! Most of them are clueless that their church doesn't follow the teachings of its followers. The men are so pussified they grow breasts and knit.
Here is a better idea prove your relgion is anything but nonsense and men controlling women. I was a Mormon my entire life homo and left because I learned its crap. Grow a brain and by the way I'm not "anti-Mormon" you poor retard persecuted f-nut. I however do have an issue with Mormons who post false stuff like you. Pussified Mormons so glad to be free of JS worshipping bullshit! Really a Mormon telling someone else to prove something amazing!!!!!!!!
Hey Balla1965 I'm also a gay man. Interesting that we have very different perspectives. I, however, am not bitter about the mistreatment I have received from some (I say some) church leaders. I don't define myself as a gay Mormon but as liberal/Zen Christian LDS who happens to be gay. I also want to see some smarts here as opposed to the generalizations I have seen from some people. When you get down to facts & issues instead of hyperbole you can argue in a productive way about issues.
I have sex with women, am glad to hear your sexual preference. To answer your question or comment...I have never actually had a productive discussion of anything faith related with a Mormon in 44 years unfortunately so I decided to call them out as the liars they are and the pussies they represent. There is no generalization in calling Mormon men pussies. If it walks, talks and smells like a pussy its a pussy. Arguing with Mormons is like trying to teach a do math. Generalization intended.
It's not a "sexual preference" it is my orientation as it has been throughout my entire life since I can remember. "There is no generalization in calling Mormon men pussies. If it walks, talks and smells like a pussy its a pussy." Yep generalization was intended. Some of the toughest men I have known are Mormons including my Uncle and another man whom I worked for at a hunting camp for 5 seasons. He beat the crap out of a man (including throwing him down the stairs) who harassed his wife.
We've already asked you for some of that "facts & issues" re polygamy being a God instituted doctrine and you offered NADA! Have you changed over the last few hours?
My Uncle taught roping in Prescott, Arizona to wayward high school boys for many years. Uncle Bill was a High Priest and was as tough as nails so I don't see your point except for some of the corporate Mormons from Utah who do seem a bit wimpy to me too. ;)
To use "THEY PRACTICED IT" (referring to Muslims or Old T. Israelites or the Quakers on the moon) is just about the LAMEST agruement one could use FOR the practice.
DUDE!! Those folks (savages) did A LOT of things not acceptable today--sacrificing animals, stoning people for minor infractions, Incest, taking other men's possessions (including wives) and giving them to other, equally UN-deserving men,
slave owning racists and misogynists--a downright UN HOLY people.
Yet, you want to adopt one of those absurdities (p'gamy) and give it legitimacy?? WHY? What's your goal? What drives this frenzy in you. So that polygamy becomes the issue, drawing attention AWAY from your lifestyle choice?
Or, maybe, if you can legitimize polygamy that may pave the way for legitimizing YOUR lifestyle? Just guessing...
Just so you know, Starvb, I'm totally, 100% on your side on the homosexuality issue.
To BE gay is a hard enough row-to-hoe, but to be gay AND LDS?? Holy SHIT!! Holy BULLSHIT, to put it more accurately!
Anyway, I wish you well if you remain Mormon (even if you don't, actually) becuz, as i'm sure you already know, you only have 2 choices--marry a woman (taking the chance of screwing up HER life and dreams, OR remaining celibate (AND morally "clean") the rest of your life.
Surely the biggest sticking point here is whether one believes in continuing revelation from God or not. If one doesn't then all of this makes no sense. If one does then it's very possible God can still talk to man and still reveal His Divine Will to man, even regarding when to start and stop plural marriage and why. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I agree with LDSguy27, I also like Brother Madsen's discussion as well.
tinselPixie 1 day ago
Interesting video... such a controversial topic today. I like how Brother Madsen discussed it here...
LDSguy27 4 days ago
Read the book "Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy" by Richard and Pamela Price to learn the truth. The Restoration Book Store has this book which tells you a lot of the facts that LDS, & FLDS people have no idea of, this disproves their beliefs. The quote of LDS D&C section 132 is direct proof as Joseph Smith never wrote that section and niether is it a revelation of GOD. Section 101 (deleted by LDS) of the 1835 D&C is a direct contradiction of section 132 look it up folks!. Emma lived to an old age!
Cornfed528 1 month ago
@alanplum7 i was talking about polygamy, not monogamy.
PCEggo 1 month ago
FALSE THEOLOGY!
1Tm:3:2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Tm:3:12: Let the deacons be the husbands of ONE WIFE, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Ti:1:6: If any be blameless, the husband of ONE WIFE, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Mt:22:30: For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
alanplum7 1 month ago
My grandfather Grandfather was a Polygamist with 8 wifes and 24 children When I was born 70 years ago I had enough cousin to fill a ward house I remember the insest was combine merging of relationship marrying of illegal half brothers and sister and other older uncles auntes. I am glad I left that false theology That is not restoration gospel Its a puppy mill
jonalain1 1 month ago
Joseph Smith contradiction:
I will preach on the plurality of gods. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" ("King Follett Discourse") = Changeable and not eternal.
"I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity" (Moroni 8:18) = Unchangeable and eternal.
chanses2 2 months ago
@chanses2 If you don't believe that, then you don't believe that Jesus Christ is an "unchangeable" God. For He "changed" forms as well, from a child to a man. Joseph Smith is repeating this idea with God the Father. Think of "God" as a state of being rather than specific persons. God is eternal, that state of being will never change. God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are all Gods. And no, that doesn't make this polytheism, for they are all one in the same purpose.
Riza007 1 month ago
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chanses2 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Riza007 In a gentle spirit. The word "God" originates from “invoked one.” -> origin or association with Hindu Sanskrit, It's wrong to use the word God, since it's inaccurate with what the original Hebrew texts tell about Elohim Yahuwah, which is the Hebrew name of our Creator. Elohim is merely a spirit being that is omnipresent in space and time, and created everything out of nothing, almighty and eternal, and who was in the past eternity. "Let us make" said Elohim. Also read Rom 5.
chanses2 1 month ago
@alanplum7
The lord revoked the commandment.
But while the commandment was in force it was of the lord and fulfilled these specific purposes that Madison talks about.
But when the commandment is not in force, polygamy cannot be of god, for it can only be done through the mediums of his appointing.
This is the Mormon thinking.
PCEggo 2 months ago
@PCEggo please quote the BIBLE text that says God revoked the commandment!
alanplum7 1 month ago
WHY HAS THE LDS CHURCH ABANDONED THIS PRACTICE? AND WHY DID PRES. HINCKLEY CONDEMN IT?
alanplum7 2 months ago
1Tmothy 3:2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
alanplum7 2 months ago
@jordanhoon
Amen!!
You all need to watch the movie as many times as you need to until common sense strikes you between the eyes. It was not for wickedness. History bears that much witness.
PCEggo 2 months ago
@jordanhoon
Hear hear!!! Amen!!
Watch the video and let common sense come flooding into your hearts and minds. See the historic reality of why Mormons did polygamy, their motivations, feelings, and thinking on the issue.
PCEggo 2 months ago
Wasn't it Eliza Snow that Emma threw down the stairs? Or was it one of the Partridge sisters? Hard to keep them all straight.
Trillidotia 3 months ago
If anyone has any doubts about whether this principle is of God, watch the video again, because you missed something. Then, go to your Father in Heaven and ask if the things spoken here are true.
jordanhoon 3 months ago
Its kind of funny that if something is in the bible the mormons think that God approves of it. The bible ,unlike the BOM is an accurate recount of history and records good and bad. If Joe Smith had murdered someone the Mormons would say It was Ok because people in the bible were murdered so God must be OK with it. Polygamy and all kinds of sin are in the bible but God approved of none of it . Thats why He came to save us.
blutowpi 4 months ago
@blutowpi I beleive the Bible to be part of our collective works and I believe it to be inspired of God. But to say that the Bible is an accurate recount of history? No, it is not historically correct. however I am not here to tear at your faith. But I would suggest that you hold the Bible under the same test as you would the BOM. You have to be honest about it.
myway43 4 months ago
you don'n need any religion for salvation ,but for your exaltation ,you need the lds church ,no other church has that .
arcvar59 4 months ago
mormonism is not Christianity, it is polytheism, using Christ as a lure, mormonism doesn't teach Christ for salvation, it teaches work of man for salvation. Polytheism entails polygamy. mormons will follow joe to their deaths, just like he said, he wasn't talking about physical death, he was talking about spiritual death. My anger towards mormonism grows more each day.
AnnymsVoice 4 months ago
@AnnymsVoice Amen. They are all brainwashed like little robots saying " I know the church is true". Every missionary I talk with spouts the same mantra . Their Jesus never existed, their god is a fairy tale and their salvation is them striving and pretending to be righteous in their flesh. The poor folks have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge and will go to hell if they continue believing the rubbish they are spoon fed from birth. The mormon leaders know they are not "prophets"
blutowpi 4 months ago
@blutowpi - That is what is so dangerous about mormonism, growing up saying, "I know the church is true", makes it hard to recognize the truth. The benefit, about growing up mormon, and then receiving faith from God, is they become some of the most powerful teachers for Christ. Shawn from Heart of the Matter for one.
AnnymsVoice 4 months ago
@AnnymsVoice Shawn from Heart of the Matter? , a powerful teacher? Are you serious?
myway43 4 months ago
@myway43 - Yes. Yes. Yes.
AnnymsVoice 4 months ago
I Timothy 3:2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
I Timothy 3:12: Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Here's what the Holy Scriptures teach...One Wife
AppleZfan01 4 months ago
@AppleZfan01 how about abraham,david salomon ,and some others ,god gave them 1000's of wives ,is that wrong in the bible?
arcvar59 4 months ago
@arcvar59 Did they have multiple wives because God told them to or did they do it of the flesh ? Abraham did it out of unbelief and his child of the flesh has been a curse to Isaacs progeny to this day. David lusted for Bathsheba in his flesh and ended up commiting murder to cover his sin. Joe Smith of course did it for spiritual reasons.HA HA , sure. There is a show on called sister wives where a traditional Mormon family lives true Mormonism . They follow Joe and Bungham Youngs example .
blutowpi 4 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Like I said, many Old Testament prophets and such were able to practice polygamy because the Lord specifically allowed them to at that time.
ThePippindude 5 months ago
@Nepthu Please provide details, like tell me when he lied about practicing polygamy, and give me some solid supporting evidence that he said that.
ThePippindude 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ThePippindude you ask god if it is truth yourself .
arcvar59 4 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I am sorry, please tell your 1 Timothy 3:2 bit to Lamach, Esau, Abraham, Jacob, Gideon, etc........
ThePippindude 5 months ago
If you accept the Bible, we have to accept everthing that goes with it. Why does everything have to be motivated by sex? If being married to 1 wife should't be only about sex, why should being married to more be any different?
Sibelius19 6 months ago
This is a voice of reason. So many hypocrites and liars here on the boards. Maybe not intentional. Tell me, why did Abraham have more than 1 wife? And many other biblical prophets figures. Yet the families of the earth were blessed because of him.
Sibelius19 6 months ago
@Sibelius19 I hate to tell you but Abe and Sarah screwed up because they didnt believe God. Sarah didnt believe at her age she could bear a child so she told Abe to take her handmaiden to have a child. The child born of the flesh has been to Isaacs children a curse to this day. Polygamy is never a good thing . God never endorsed it but lustful sinners did it on their own. In the new testament a husband is to have 1 wife. If Joe had ever read a bible he might have not made that mistake.
blutowpi 4 months ago
Total crap!!
Shutterbug1000 6 months ago
Would you call Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, and others perverse because God commanded them to practice polygamy? That would make God perverse! A person like Warren Jeffs is perverse because he is practicing polygamy without Gods consent. He is doing it for his own gratification. When God commanded the practice to be stopped, it became illegal. If a man practices polygamy without God's OK , it is a sin. It was only done with the sanction of God. Joseph Smith at first was averse to it.
fatcaesardlb 6 months ago
@fatcaesardlb Any man having children with a black woman must be beheaded, and his children must be killed:
“And if any man mingle his seed with the seed of Cane [sic] the ownly [sic] way he could get rid of it or have salvation would be to come forward and have his head cut off & spill his Blood upon the ground it would also take the life of his children...” (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, recording a speech by Brigham Young, January 16, 1852, typed copy; original located in LDS Church Archives)
blutowpi 5 months ago
@blutowpi not if they repent and come to jesus !!!
arcvar59 4 months ago
Truman Madsen is totally full of crap just like the MORmON religion. Madsen is a crap spewing excuse making stooge of LDS Inc. This video proves that MORmONISM is man made idiocy. If god really was on board with polygamy to raise up seed for LDS, then why didnt female to male births soar for the LDS.
carkunkula 6 months ago
@carkunkula So you think they beleive man=Jeffs is the prophet but don't they see they have died. Every man before jeffs says they were or are the prophet, but jeffs will be jailed for many years..So how can they be religous and mormon at the same time i wonder..>>I have been trying to study there beleifs and all other crap that i am hearing. I have watched and researched many things on this POLYGAMY and MORMON, they go hand and hand..I am lost and confused by this whole darn subject..
reneekelly68 6 months ago
@reneekelly68 there is nothing to be confused about. MORmONS LIE incessantly! stop believing them, look at the obvious & you wont be confused any longer. MORmONS said they were going to fill the earth with the MORmON restoration, but instead of sticking to that business they started screwing little girls & other mens wives, & then ran off to the isolation of Utah to keep it up. Its simply debauchery & excuses (LIES). MORmONS are brim full of CRAP & EVIL !
carkunkula 6 months ago
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carkunkula 6 months ago
@mrabuckten i know...and that is so SPRITUAL an experince..LMAO
DrRocksotheClown 8 months ago
I love how he tells us that if men really wanted this jsut for indulgence and gratification, there are much easier ways to do so, and plural marriage is difficult to maintain, so it makes no sense to do it for gratification.
ThePippindude 8 months ago
@ThePippindude oh come on how gullible can you be...any man would wanna be banging 5 diffrent women...i love the denial that these men just wanted a harem and uused religion as an excuse..amazing how gullible some peopel are ..smitha ..was a con and a charlatan who wrote his own bible.
DrRocksotheClown 8 months ago
@DrRocksotheClown Seriously, if he wanted to "bang" 5+ women, he wouldn't have to marry them all to do it, its a lot harder than just not marrying. If this is what Smith wanted, he would not have said that we should not have sexual relations outside of marriage. Don't you think he would have lied and decreed that the Lord said that we should encourage sexual relationship outside of marriage? But he didn't say that...
ThePippindude 7 months ago
@ThePippindude When asked if he was practicing polygamy, Smith LIED and said he wasn't. If it was such an important commandment, why all the secrecy and deceptive?
Nepthu 7 months ago
@ThePippindude He didn't ha?Lucinda Morgan Harris 1838 already married to George W Harris. Zina Hunting Jacobs Oct 1841 age 20 already married to Henry Jacobs. Presendia Huntington Buell Dec 1841 age 31 already married to Norman Buell.Sylvia Sessions Lyon Feb 1842 age 23 already married to Windsor Lyon. Mary Rollins Lightner Feb. 1842 age 23 already married to Adam Lightner.. Patty Bartlett Sessions march 1842 age 47 already married to David Sessions. You want more?
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@ThePippindude Do you really think he would have said that, knowing that he had the law behind him? hum? another blind as a bat! You keep defending your pedophile of a prophet, you'll be looking at who Joe was!
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@ThePippindude God frowns upon polygamy; the first one is Deuteronomy 17:17, where God says that kings are not to take multiple wives—a warning specifically to kings, because kings would be in a much better position to take multiple wives than the average person. So if the king must not, then the average man should not either. In Paul’s letters in the New Testament, having more than one wife disqualified a person from leadership in the church.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan I agree, mormonism can easily be shown to be nonsense, but there's no point quoting the bible to prove it, as that's just a fictional story, or group of them, put together hundreds of years after the event. The bible is full of untruths, contradictions and evil. Not an argument in favour of anything apart from evil.
sids500 7 months ago
@sids500 Untruths? Contradictions and evil? Please! Do explain and prove your arguments.
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Untruths - just a few examples - Noah's Ark, 1000yr old people, virgin births, resurrection, angels, creation. All disproved! Contradictions - Kill the amalacites....yet love thy neighbour, Go to hell if you disobey god.....yet god is loving, and forgiving, only 2 gospels (the story of jesus's life) mention the virgin birth! Virgin birth meaning jesus was son of god......yet "all the graves of israel opened" is hardly mentioned. Actually read the book don't cherry-pick.
sids500 7 months ago
@sids500 Your flesh will tell you what flesh tell, the spirit will tell you what the spirit tells, But if don't have the Holy spirit, you will never know! If u don't believe what the bible says, is your choice, the Bible had been proved true with archeological evidence, dates, people, events and so on! Kill the amalacites, OT= (law), love ur neighbour= (grace) NT. Emmanuel= Son of God, God still God whether you believe or not! I don't worry 4 u, I was 1 like u, Peace came with it! Do u have it?
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Spirit? another made-up consiliatory device to attempt to explain what you don't yet, and may never, understand. Most of the bible contains references to things that we now understand, but did not at the time, like germ theory, meteorology, cosmology. It's exciting to keep discovering. If you just accept this old book of stories, discovery stops, life becomes drab and uninteresting. Maybe that's what you like about it? Pretty mean god. You can attain peace without these lies.
sids500 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan It is, as you say, everyone's choice. As far as I can see, all the good things religion brings can be attained without it. And all the evil done in the name of religion could be avoided without it. A fully secular world would be such a nicer place to live. We could all then truly live in peace, and enjoy this one chance of a good life. How wonderful that would be? And you have answered none of my questions. "Kill the amalacites, OT= (law)"? You need to think more critically.
sids500 7 months ago
@sids500 “Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man,” Romans 1:22-23 Stay the way you are, and be who you are!! Take care
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Quoting from an old book of stories and myths is not really an argument, but then that's often what i get in replies from the religious. Not much point continuing this one. Have a good life, and look forward to your rewards in the after-life, even if that means you waste all of this only and only one, praying, preaching and closing your mind.
sids500 7 months ago
@sids500 Indeed I will, and if it means wasting it praying for you, and many like you, is ok with me!
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@ThePippindude So there is no place in the Bible where God commands polygamy, or where he says it is a good thing. There are many places in the Bible where God states that his plan for marriage is one man, n 1 woman. (For example, 1 Corinthians 7:2, each is 2 have their own wife or husband) but hey! your prophet was a Christian! and u guys call yourselves christians t2 right? u re a joke of a Mormon! r u a jackmormon? lol, u r stupid thats what u r, for defending this joke of a man called Joe!
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@DrRocksotheClown Denial is the best way to avoid pain, and believe me hes trying to avoid it at all cost, and adding nice words with it..
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
Can anyone translate it to spanish. A great amount of members speaks spanish, so please I want to understand this, subtitle this.
dorisfenella 8 months ago
polygamists at heart.
kramd1 8 months ago
Perversion nothing else!
TheShirlock 11 months ago
I am constantly in AWE of the fact at how well the Modern Day Mormon Church can dissociate itself from Polygamy when it's history it literally drenched in it. Not only that, but it's future is covered in it as well. For example, Joseph Smith proclaimed polygamy to be a a "true and E V E R L A S T I N G covenant" . EVERLASTING. take a minute to process that word.. not only that, but the Mormon Church endorses polygamy in heaven. Section 132 D&C.
amyleoness 11 months ago
@amyleoness I am in awe that anyone follows religion at all- this is just insantiy counter argueing insantiy
mompm 11 months ago
@amyleoness The everlasting part does not mean that it will be practiced at all times. It simply means that the principle itself is everlasting and so are the eternal covenants associated with those who enter into it. And so it is. If you read either the Book of Mormon or the Bible, it is plain to see that polygamy was not practiced at all times. The greater principle is "follow the prophet". You will NOT be led astray.
unirrational 10 months ago
@unirrational : You admit then, that the Principle itself is "everlasting". So, then, you believe in Polygamy on some level. This is my point exactly. Thank you!
amyleoness 10 months ago
@amyleoness You're welcome. :)
unirrational 10 months ago
@amyleoness You obviously don't understand that sentence. Let me explain. When THE LORD (not Joseph Smith) said it was an everlasting covenant, He means that the sealing to multiple wives in the temple to be sealed as a family for eternity was allowed at the time. It is not that it would be allowed forever, but that the sealing to multiple wives would be recognized in Heaven, as long as the sealing was allowed by the Lord at the time he said it could be.
ThePippindude 7 months ago
@ThePippindude Any man can say The Lord said! U understand that? The Lord said it could be so? Another blind! Like the angels of Heaven, Mathew 22:30 look at Mathew 3:7 and maybe you’ll learn something, Angels are immortals creators that don’t reproduce, therefore there’s no need to get married. The Saints will have the same Characteristics. What about the husbands of the ladies alreary married to other men? didn't they have anything to say about that? oh i forgot, God told him to right? bla bl
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@ThePippindude Marinda Johnson Hyde April 1842 age 27 already married to Orson Hyde. Elizabeth Davis Durfee June 1842 age 50 already married to Jabez Durfee. Sarah Kingsley Cleveland june 1842 age 53 already married John Cleveland. How about little girls, behind Emmas back?Her Names, Helen Mar Kimball 14, Nancy Maria Winchester 14, Flora Ann Woodworth she was 16 Joseph was 37. At this age Jose had married 21 women. Yeah sure, he slept with Emma only!! big lol
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
@ThePippindude Mark 12:18-25 Read it, and maybe you'll understand something, because you prophet sure didn't understand 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given into hospitality, oh he did more than that, apt to teach, he taugh, to tell other mans wives they are 2 b his wives, lol. or he was just playing stupid, No, that wasn't it! he just could control his pipe. and took advantage of his followers wives and daughter!!
Chinaculiacan 7 months ago
Mormons : Onde estão as provas? O DNA dos povos americanos não batem em
nada com o DNA hebraico. mas sim com dna de um povo na Asia.
arqueologia: nada foi encontrado, pela historia de moroni, que diz sobre a ultima batalha proximo ao monte cumorah, deveria ter neste local muitos equipamentos de guerra daquela época., já encontraram restos de carroças de guerra numa parte, a mais rasa, do mar vermelho, tudo indica ser do exercitodo faraó.MORMONS ONDE ESTÃO OS RESTOS DA BATALHA NO MONTE CUMORAH?
MrBrasilpaulo 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Don't know. You still are not responding to the marriage issue.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 No response. Good.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Were you aware that many have been resurrected since Christ? Are you saying only virgins were resurrected?
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Your point?
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 This is your interpretation.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Also, you need to read all of what Paul said, not just a verse or two.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 What are you quoting here? Also, damned means not being with God and not being able to progress.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Changing the subject? Are you going to respond to what I said about 1 Cor and your lie about D&C 132?
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 No false doctrine at all. However, there are some things we won't know till later and many things are not necessary for us to know.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I doubt that. Those at FAIR are much more informed than you.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 That's not what Paul was saying at all.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I went home and studied 1 Cor 7. What's your point? Also, like I said, you said D&C 132:6 is different now, but it's not.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Honestly, I am not going to search every post you have made. I have heard so many lies from you people it's ridiculous. If you want to email me all your complaints, then I will point them out. I actually do know the doctrine. The Godmakers is trash.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I don't make nasty remarks about someone's religion. I just looked at a 1971 copy of the D&C and the verse you mention is identical to what's online. Are you lying again?
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Also, if a sincere person sees the way you antis treat the LDS and lie, they would know you are liars.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 You are a fool. I teach the true Gospel. How can you honestly say I am keeping people from the LDS church. All one needs to do is study and pray and they will know it's true.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I do know the faith I defend, and I don't see anything wrong with D&C 132:6. I will not comment on Paul, unless you are specific. I have a D&C from before 1990. What's your point? I don't have it with me right now.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 You will need to be specific about what you ask about 1 Corinthians. I bet there are millions of milk Christians.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 Not sure what you are trying to say, but the LDS church is true. I know of myself, not from someone else has told me.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
Yes, polygamy was all about sacrifice. In Joseph's case, he was sacrificing sperm...
DJWarHorse 1 year ago
Smooth Words and voice in no way authenticate polygamy as moral and good. Read the polygamy revelation (I posted it) It nullifies all non Mormon marriages and contracts, defines innocent blood, threatens his wife with death and more! Does that sound like choice? Moral? It led Directly to the Mountain Meadows Massacre, where the 55 murderers were under the Mormon Endowment Ceremony Oaths. Mormon Polygamy gave Parley Pratt the "right" to take "gentile" wives to themselves w/ impunity. All true.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism If you refer to D&C 132, you don't understand it at all.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore Well, you better help me and others to understand the meaning of "nullifies all non Mormon Marriages and Contracts", Innocent blood, and threatening his wife with murder and thus by extension all disobedient wives, plural. I also understand this document led directly to the Mountain Meadows Massacre thru the instrumentality of Parley Pratt. It was Necessary to "Avenge the Blood of the Prophets" sworn in the Endowment Ceremony, which is of course tied to the Polygamy Rev. Follow me?
IExposeMormonism 11 months ago
@IExposeMormonism I mentioned D&C 132, which does not mention what you are talking about. What is the reference to your info?
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore You must be a milk Mormon, I'm sorry. Go to my page and type in polygamy revelation. I posted it more than once. I show the text in print so you, the ignorant, can read it. Then you can, as Joseph Smith said, Like it or lump it He mentions 10 virgins and marrying them, too. Take a read at it, it will help you to understand how Christian lives are threatened by such blasphemy. This hubris led to Pratt taking a mans wife, using Mormon law and later Mormon action at MMM
IExposeMormonism 11 months ago
@IExposeMormonism Don't know what a milk Mormon is. But I guess I would rather be that than an apostate.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore Milk Mormon is one that is unaware of the first 70 years of Mormonism, just yesterday, really. Someone who is unaware of the polytheism and polygamy in it and the extent polygamy was practiced by Joseph Smith, B Young, one that is unlearned in the Danites, Someone unfamiliar with the history of the Endowment Oaths/Ceremony, etc. A non meat eater
IExposeMormonism 11 months ago
@IExposeMormonism Say what you like, but I am aware of the LDS Church's history. You cannot deny the church is true if God has told you it is.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
I would believe this guy were not for the fact that Joesph Smith and others married the wives of other faithful members of the Church who had just as much right to Eternal marriage and being seal to their sweet hearts. Rather than that they were asked to give their wives up to Church leaders. It just is not right!
rd1999 1 year ago
This presupposes that God is so stupid that He could not forsee the misery that polygamy would bring to the world.
It does not explain why Joseph Smith began to practice polygamy, including marrying teenagers and the wives of other men (sent on missions by Smith) long before he announced the supposed revelation of polygamy.
Also, the idea that there was a shortage of women is a lie that the church historians were excommunicated for revealing.
drinkswithnedkelly 1 year ago
What rubbish!
YouAreIsrael 1 year ago
I loved the way Truman G Madsen spoke and taught. I will miss him so much. I love all his talk cds.... He is one of my favourite!
Wleonora 1 year ago 8
Today tens of thousands of American women who are single or lesbian turn to artificial insemination to have families. A man who is healthy and intelligent might create 3, 10 or more children through donations. Polygamy is a bit different -- in this case a man takes multiple wives and commits to them, and the children each woman conceives. Perhaps many women who today use AI would consider living in polygamy rather than raise kids without a fatehr.
edwardsson 1 year ago
@edwardsson
why would a woman degrade herself by agreeing to a plural marriage?
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
WoW Thank you so much for posting this what dose it come from where can I find the rest?
ZionELM 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I myself hava four wifes. i musta beat them savagely or they donta do whatta I tell them to do. My neighbor he a tells me he is a gonna call the police on me for the beatings I give them. I tell him, "I have married them. They are my property. I will beat them when I want. Mind your own business". The best thing abouta plural marriage is you have four different woman, each with three holes. Thatsa twelve holes to choose from. I supporta the polygamy.
jackstrawfrmwchta 1 year ago
If Joseph smith said this was a blessing and of God,why don't Mormons practice this now?
Warriorstatus18 1 year ago
@Warriorstatus18,
The only reason we stopped it is because our people were being persecuted, our leaders were being thrown in jail, and the government was threatening to destroy our temples. Temple work is more important than polygamy, so we had to compromise. Look at the LDS splinter groups that are practicing polygamy, they have to live their life in utter secrecy for fear of being arrested.
05lowell05 1 year ago
@05lowell05 Members of the Church like you scare the Hell out of me and make me wonder if raising my beautiful daughters in this Faith was the right thing to do or not because anyone who thinks like you do would turn yourself and your family right back to living polygamy again were it authorized again. Just like a dog to it's vomit.
rd1999 1 year ago
@rd1999,
Actually I'm no longer a member of the church. I do have a question for you though, why are you a Mormon if you reject polygamy? Don't you know it was a fundamental tenant of the church in its early years?
05lowell05 1 year ago
@rd1999,
I might also add that the only reason I advocated polygamy was because there is no way around accepting it, being Mormon. Anyone who is a part of any church, yet only cherry-picks the pieces of doctrine they like while ignoring the rest is simply an individual who is in denial. If you're a Mormon who rejects large parts of LDS doctrine, I would suggest leaving the church altogether, as Mormonism is not the kind of religion where you can believe one part and denounce the other.
05lowell05 1 year ago
@05lowell05 If a member has questions or doubts, the first thing I would recommend is they speak to their bishop about it.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore,
I did speak to my bishop of about it many times. Leaving the church was not a quick process for me; it took four years.
05lowell05 11 months ago
@05lowell05 I am sorry, but you can still come back. It is the only Church of Christ on the earth.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
@LDStothecore,
Thanks, but I don't want to come back. I proved Mormonism is false, and I refuse to be a part of a religion which I know teaches untrue doctrines.
05lowell05 11 months ago
@05lowell05 It's impossible to prove the LDS church false, since it is true. Show me your proof.
LDStothecore 11 months ago
what a good man... has much knowledge on the matter. it would be so hard to except this principle but i feel that he is right in everything that he said.
bejeppson 1 year ago
No one should listen to this unless they are willing to open up their hearts and minds to principles which they had not before contemplated... Even members of the church would rigidly reject this ... ... amazing ... how narrow minded people can be
n3r0t0x1n 1 year ago
JS started polygamy. But JS never did support and provide for his polygamous wives. The others just followed his direction. So to say that "libertinism" wasn't the impetus for polygamy is false. The speaker hasn't thought this through.
whizwhitney 1 year ago
Truman Madsen is also gainfully employed by BYU. This is not truthful. Smith was arrested for burning down the Navuoo compositor news paper printing house because he was outraged that they had published his (Smiths) secretive polygamist activities.The LDS marketing machine never depicts the truth of Smith and his adventures.
No mention of his first wife Emma being kept in the dark about his many affairs.
No mention of him marring wives of other members that he had sent on missions abroad.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1
Nauvoo Expositor, not "Compositor".
Doliath 1 year ago
@Doliath thanx
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1,
Where did you get that information? Oh, yes, that's right. LDS publications. Such as the Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, etc. How can you claim we hide such facts if we publish and sell the books? Moreover, you can read them for free online!
05lowell05 1 year ago
@05lowell05 They are not part of the parroted missionary discussions.
kramd1 1 year ago
@kramd1,
And what is the problem there? The missionary discussions are given to provide the basics, and that is all. They are by no means intended to teach deep doctrine. Deep doctrine is for those who want to do the research themselves.
05lowell05 1 year ago
What about Joseph Smith marring the wives of other faithful priesthood holders like Henry Jacobs who gave up his wife Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young to both of the early Prophets, having sons with her in between both marriages
rd1999 1 year ago
YES!!! I now BELIEVE!!! Thank You Prophet Smith!!! Now for starters...I WANT 30 wives ages 14-25 and they must all be Virgins! God says so directly from Joe and NO ONE and No one can tell me otherwise!!! I'm LDS! By the way...I want twins and sisters!
mytv80 1 year ago
@mytv80 Haha I feel the same way!!!
Warriorstatus18 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Now, get off you manic facination with ME and deal with REAL issues.
(A reminder!)
1. Why your obtuse facination in supporting plygy?
2. Refusal to deal with BY's polygamy in it's LDS lesson manual?
3. Your "smoke screen" of A&E's monogamy?
4. Lack of LDS scriptural support FOR plgy?
5. Your gay issues as it relates to your obsession with plgy?
6. Why plgy out of dozens of bizarro OT choices?
7. Why your ref. to "facts and issues" when you refuse to offer any?
8. Etc., etc.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo
My "1 through 8" of a few minutes ago, was meant for Starvalleylobotomy.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
Readers can tell which writer is living a life most in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ by observing how much love and respect they show to those with whom they disagree. If someone is calling other people names, using hateful language, or showing other signs of a heart full of negativity, you know not to trust what they say as truth. If you want real information, speak to someone who is respectful and reasonable.
jamgord 1 year ago
Would that also apply to Jesus Christ, jamgourd? He was CONSTANTLY calling the Pharisees "whited wall" and "hypocrites", "adulterous", "liars"--"corrupt and full of unclean spirits".
Your self-elevating, holier-than-thou proclamations, as well as all other LDS proclamations are, as they say, worthless as tits on a boar HOG!!
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
@1MoNoMo
jamgourd.
If it pains your sensitive soul THAT much, I have a simple solution. See that big "X" in the upper right hand corner? Just click on it and the mean ol world will just melt away--and all your heart-felt concerns with it. And your little LaLa Land Fairytale will reappear, and all will be well, in Zion, once again!
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
Well said and right on jamgord. Thank you.
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago
Comment removed
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago
You know you talk about "syrupy sweet LDS books" which is true there are plenty of them, but I have also seen plenty of syrupy sweet Evangelical Christian books too. It just depends on what the subject matter is. I've seen some excellent syrupy sweet LDS books that really had a great message that is universal to Christians everywhere. I think you believe (this is how you come across) that no good could ever come from the LDS Church or the LDS people but I know that just is completely untrue.
Starvalleybotany 2 years ago
I resopnded earlier to your charge of me thinking that no good comes from LDS--showing that you don't read my responses.
The syrupy sweet reference was with the fact in mind (along with many other examples) that the 1998(?) Priesthood Manual called The Teachings Of Brigham Young, said NOTHING about his polygamy--NOT ONE WORD in the 200+ pages, but painted BY as having only ONE WIFE. His favorite teaching topic!!
You can find this "whitewash job" ALL OVER Mormonism!! WHY--if it's true??
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you look at that manual you will see that they have at least placed [ ] where they have changed a word. I know about the "wife" vs. "wives" issue. "You can find this "whitewash job" ALL OVER Mormonism!!" That's another extreme faulty generalization. Sure there are changes but to what degree and how much and where is the question. A modern LDS manual that does not include polygamy of BY when its subject matter is about improving modern marriage really is not much of an argument.
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago 2
Bullshit, Star!
The TITLE of the BY Teaching Manual was "The TEACHINGS of the prophet Brigham Young. One of his major "teachings", if not THE MAJOR teaching of his was Plural Marriage.
Your insistence that this "modern LDS manual" is about "improving modern marriage" is incredibly naive and grossly ludicrous! A really DUMB attempt to twist reaLITY...
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
"Bullshit, Star!" Right back at you there dough head. I know what the manual was. I have a copy of it and I read & studied it several years ago. The modern manuel was created to bring the teachings of all of the LDS prophets from Joseph Smith to the present into congruence and to help mothers be better mothers, fathers better fathers, Husbands better husbands, wives better wives, etc. and so on. You're the one who is grossly naive.
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago
ME? Naive? You are as funny as a truckload of dead babies, Star!
I'M not the one that reads the manual in question, and sees nothing askew in it
(no mention of polygamy (plural marriage) by the guy that started IT ALL!!
The PERFECT DEFINITION of "naive"!!
THe fact that I questioned the absence of even the WORD polygamy in that lesson manual, ought to demonstrate that the naive one here is not me, but YOU, Svb!
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
"I resopnded earlier to your charge of me thinking that no good comes from LDS--showing that you don't read my responses." Oh on the contrary, I do read your responses and think about them. Sometimes you may not communicate your beliefs very well and that may be the breakdown in communication.
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago
Then, let me make it CRYSTAL CLEAR.
The LDS Church teaches some good principles and has done admirable things and has many good people in it.
There. Clear enough?
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
NOW, rather than attempting to make my failures THE issue, try dealing with things of substance within Mormonism--like the lesson manual I mentioned above, "Teachings of The Prophet Brigham Young"--that you so conveniently
DID NOT address.
1MoNoMo 1 year ago
You definitely have made that CRYSTAL CLEAR sweety. Thank you.
Starvalleybotany 1 year ago
Well, I think the Mormon Church is the largest RELIGIOUS fraud in the world. The number one liar in the world would have to go to the United States Government.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Mormons are the worlds biggest liars. They deny everything. They are okay with a Prophet getting on Larry King and telling the world polugamy started in Utah when JS was a polygamist and never came to Utah! Most of them are clueless that their church doesn't follow the teachings of its followers. The men are so pussified they grow breasts and knit.
Balla1965 2 years ago
"Mormons are the worlds biggest liars." Very faulty generalization with a strong anti-Mormon bias.
"The men are so pussified they grow breasts and knit." That's yet another extreme generalization. Let's see you prove this with concise evidence.
Starvalleybotany 2 years ago
Here is a better idea prove your relgion is anything but nonsense and men controlling women. I was a Mormon my entire life homo and left because I learned its crap. Grow a brain and by the way I'm not "anti-Mormon" you poor retard persecuted f-nut. I however do have an issue with Mormons who post false stuff like you. Pussified Mormons so glad to be free of JS worshipping bullshit! Really a Mormon telling someone else to prove something amazing!!!!!!!!
Balla1965 2 years ago
Hey Balla1965 I'm also a gay man. Interesting that we have very different perspectives. I, however, am not bitter about the mistreatment I have received from some (I say some) church leaders. I don't define myself as a gay Mormon but as liberal/Zen Christian LDS who happens to be gay. I also want to see some smarts here as opposed to the generalizations I have seen from some people. When you get down to facts & issues instead of hyperbole you can argue in a productive way about issues.
Starvalleybotany 2 years ago
I have sex with women, am glad to hear your sexual preference. To answer your question or comment...I have never actually had a productive discussion of anything faith related with a Mormon in 44 years unfortunately so I decided to call them out as the liars they are and the pussies they represent. There is no generalization in calling Mormon men pussies. If it walks, talks and smells like a pussy its a pussy. Arguing with Mormons is like trying to teach a do math. Generalization intended.
Balla1965 2 years ago
It's not a "sexual preference" it is my orientation as it has been throughout my entire life since I can remember. "There is no generalization in calling Mormon men pussies. If it walks, talks and smells like a pussy its a pussy." Yep generalization was intended. Some of the toughest men I have known are Mormons including my Uncle and another man whom I worked for at a hunting camp for 5 seasons. He beat the crap out of a man (including throwing him down the stairs) who harassed his wife.
Starvalleybotany 2 years ago
We've already asked you for some of that "facts & issues" re polygamy being a God instituted doctrine and you offered NADA! Have you changed over the last few hours?
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
My Uncle taught roping in Prescott, Arizona to wayward high school boys for many years. Uncle Bill was a High Priest and was as tough as nails so I don't see your point except for some of the corporate Mormons from Utah who do seem a bit wimpy to me too. ;)
Starvalleybotany 2 years ago
We've shown that God made Adam and gave him ONE WIFE.
We've shown that the position of LDS, Inc on marriage is "ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN", THE "traditional" marriage.
We've shown you that God DID NOT command p'gamy in the OT.
We've shown that the BoM is against p'gamy.
Yet you persist, Starvalleylobotomy!
Deal with THOSE "facts and issues"; you know--just for a CHANGE.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
To use "THEY PRACTICED IT" (referring to Muslims or Old T. Israelites or the Quakers on the moon) is just about the LAMEST agruement one could use FOR the practice.
DUDE!! Those folks (savages) did A LOT of things not acceptable today--sacrificing animals, stoning people for minor infractions, Incest, taking other men's possessions (including wives) and giving them to other, equally UN-deserving men,
slave owning racists and misogynists--a downright UN HOLY people.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Yet, you want to adopt one of those absurdities (p'gamy) and give it legitimacy?? WHY? What's your goal? What drives this frenzy in you. So that polygamy becomes the issue, drawing attention AWAY from your lifestyle choice?
Or, maybe, if you can legitimize polygamy that may pave the way for legitimizing YOUR lifestyle? Just guessing...
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Just so you know, Starvb, I'm totally, 100% on your side on the homosexuality issue.
To BE gay is a hard enough row-to-hoe, but to be gay AND LDS?? Holy SHIT!! Holy BULLSHIT, to put it more accurately!
Anyway, I wish you well if you remain Mormon (even if you don't, actually) becuz, as i'm sure you already know, you only have 2 choices--marry a woman (taking the chance of screwing up HER life and dreams, OR remaining celibate (AND morally "clean") the rest of your life.
Get out NOW, bro!
1MoNoMo 2 years ago