if people such as the video uploader werent so intellectually lazy, and could actually analyze the political and social realities of this country, an "affirmative action bake sale" would go like this: Whites would pay pennies....Blacks would pay 10 dollars, Hispanics 8....etc. With affirmative action, Blacks would pay 9 dollars, hispanics 7....whites would perhaps have to pay .50 at most.
I wish more people were as rational as you. Racism will never end as long as people aren't treated as equals.
On the other hand, I think that everybody needs access to a higher education for people to have a chance at being equal, but this shouldn't be done by giving some students preferential treatment. It needs to start in grade school, with equal funding to schools, and remedial help for those who need it, and secondary schooling needs to be accessible to anybody willing to work for it.
I wish more people were as rational as you. Racism will never end as long as people aren't treated as equals.
On the other hand, I think that everybody needs access to a higher education for people to have a chance at being equal, but this shouldn't be done by giving some students preferential treatment. It needs to start in grade school, with equal funding to schools, and remedial help for those who need it, and secondary schooling needs to be accessible to anybody willing to work for it.
@Primalxbeast ...I fail to understand how addressing inequality and discrimination is "preferential treatment" for minorities. The whole idea behind affirmative action is to counter preferential treatment for whites.
Well said!!!! Many of the liberals on the event page for the bake sale have taken it upon themselves to call us 'racist' and even post pictures such as the Pillsbury Doughboy doing the Hitler salute, which to ME anyway, tries to suggest that because we are against SB 185 that we are automatically racist. I am going to watch part 2 now. Thank you for your well thought out response.
Frankly I am rather disappointed. I had viewed Mr. Obama's election as being a possibility to set right some things which I did not do, nor did my parents, but which I was willing to accept responsibility for for the chance of comity.
I wonder if those are the feelings which are making me support Herman Cain now. Even though he's never had governing experience. But as far as solving problems, he's a hell of a man.
One of his best. And he's great because the media is the message. The white brand has been so tarred by charges of racism that it is impossible for an innocent white to clear himself of a racism charge, even if false. It's the seriousness of the charge. This is not to say don't throw the book at real racists.
America is not racist. We elected Obama BECAUSE he's black and he has the slimmest resume of any president of all time.
@daustins Obama was elected because of his race? Do you think americans are that stupid? That sounds very ignorant. So you're saying that he was elected because of his race and it had nothing to do with McCain and Sarah Palin possibly becoming the next president and vice president of the US? What if McCain died in office, we would have Sarah Palin as president and guess what, you most likely voted for them. It also had nothing to do with Bush tarnishing the Republican platform.
@daustins Are you willing to stand by your "and he has the slimmest resume of any president of all time." remark? I assume you are including every president the US has ever had, since you did say "of all time."
This is America, land of the free. Free stuff? Where I have the right to seek opportunity, not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen. Humbled and dulled by having the State look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream. To fail and to succeed. I prefer the challenges to life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence NOR MY DIGNITY FOR A HANDOUT. Great video.
Yeah there's poor, uneducated whites. But if there weren't, the inequality would even be greater.
A big misconception is that racism is caused by skin color. But it's really caused by class. When a certain ethnicity disproportionately represent a certain economic class, that when racism happen. Affirmative action tries to lessen that and even it out.
"How is a black man with ivy league parents in an upscale neighborhood disadvantaged?"
Well, see, right off the bat we can't have a discussion about AA because there's already a severe misunderstanding of the goals. AA isn't necessarily about helping the disadvantaged as much as it is increasing the presence of minorities on established campuses and workplaces. Even if that black goes on to graduate with a degree he still faces hurdle wrt job promotions, employment simply by the color of skin
great video man. just because someones white doesnt mean hes living large. you are right, most of this country is out of work rural white people that dont have a goddamn pot to piss in.
@boojwahz Regardless of income,whites get the benefit of the doubt simply by being the default race. Whites get to have their personalities be the first impression of their character, minorities have their skin color be the first impression of their character and have to work beyond their skin color to be acknowledged as a person by the race that tends to be in positions of power (whites) Also poor rural whites aren't looked over by AA. Admissions officers do consider income no matter what race.
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Protean, I agree with some of your veiws and disagree with some, but this is one of your greatest video of all time. Thank you for saying this. Because I'm white, if I say this, I get immediately labeled as "racist". They need to hear it from a black man. God broke the mold when he made you protean.
Read Joe Bageant's essays on this and other topics. He recently died. This said...class issues are still connected with race, regardless of affirmative action. Affirmative action was put in place to level the playing field, and rightfully so, I might add. And it did so, for a period of time, not nearly enough in my estimation.There is entrenched wealth in this nation, mostly white, and some minorities advanced. But educational standards should not be lowered to meet simple quotas.
@55ella2007k >>>(continued): the educational system cannot function via simplistic formulas and needs to take each student's achievements and potential into account. Instead, we are now raising drones for the market place, no matter what race it is. This is in long-run a prescription for disaster. Everything in education needs a healthy dose of individualism, not just test scores, but the fostering of critical thought, which cannot be tested via automated test scores alone.
Also if AA is to correct historical wrongs why do immigrants arriving after 1965 qualify? At base this is about who gets in- admissions so AA should not be discussed in isolation. Include legacy, athletes, drama student, geography, etc, etc. Otherwise its disengenuous and merely a pissing contest. As for AA need should be #1 criteria .
Why in these discussions about AA do we exclude women? We have made the greatest gains in gender. Insert a young white female using the same scenario you set up for the black kid-family, etc. What about young white female vs young white disadvantaged male?
@einLesenderArbeiter - Wasn't talking about the bake sale. I was referring to the discussion we (all of us) have around the issue of AA. Protean's part 1 video, the example was a black person. I agree with his sentiment but just pointed out that race (particularly black face as representative) is what we focus on when considering amending/ending the policy. if we no longer need it, certainly gender-the area where we've made the most gains should go 1st but its missing from the conversation.
While i don't agree with their message it is an interesting and creative way to protest. I doubt they'd get many minorities to donate if they singled them out like that though.
I like this bake sale. They are satirizing racism, or better, something they perceive as racism. They communicated this in a very clear and clever way, and even if i probably don't really agree with their overall agenda, i don't really see whats wrong with it.
In fact i applaud them for speaking in such clear terms.
Well said. I am a mix like most in this country, however, my skin is white. Neither of my parents were college educated and they worked hard but could not even afford to send me to a community college. I never got to go to college, I had to choose trade schools. I agree with what you said advantage today isn't race, it's your school, your parents back account, your neighborhood, etc. Thanks so much for speaking up.
I’d argue this is connected to how everything is “for profit” in this country. Even deans who don’t run their universities like Harvard still have to accommodate commercial builders, textbook publishers, commercial custodians, educational software companies and endless other expenses from those resource-providers who are “for profit”. And, on AVERAGE, blacks & Hispanics have less savings/lower incomes. Socialize education and you relieve need for “hindsight fairness”.
I've always thought Affirmative Action programs were an insult to "minorities," because it was essentially saying that certain people needed help to build capital, although never specifying why. Not having AA is the least racist policy possible, because that indicates all any group needs is to have full democratic rights, and their own capabilities will take them the rest of the way. But so what, I find almost everyone politically aligns with their own race, whether they realize it or not.
two things I somewhat agree with you in terms of affirmative action in colleges tends to help rich and upper middle class minorities who a lot of time are children of immigrants and not americans who have faced historical discrimination. I like Bush idea of how to reform it based upon need for colleges. I disagree with u that being apart of the dominate culture does give an advantage to the person. While affirmative action programs should not be eliminated but adapted.
I think the idea of the bake sale to raise awareness to the problem is a good thing. I can't wait for the day when people understand that you do not fight racism by implanting another form of racism, like the old saying goes 2 wrongs don't make a right.
I always enjoy your videos, thank you and keep up the good work.
I think it should be if they want to do this based on their families income bracket that way anyone who is disadvantaged can get the help they need. Also too there should be a max on how much debt schools are aloud to put on their students, no one should graduate and have to basically buy their school a really good house after. It's different if people can afford to spend that much but the majority of everyone can't.
When we get to the point as a nation when a black male with a bachelors degree and no criminal record gets as many job offers as a white male with a felony and no bachelors degree, then...
Then I think we can do away with affirmative action. Until then, yeah I think a middle class black student does need need affirmative action at beginning of their career.
@regemo- So qualified black males with bachelor's degrees and no criminal record are being passed up for jobs in favor of white males with felony criminal records and no bachelors degrees???
What planet are you living on? Because it sure ain't the same one I'm living on. When occupational affirmative action was in place, employers had to spend big money trying to recruit the kind of black males you're talking about, they just weren't around.
@boogiechillen123 Yeah there are a couple studies that demonstrate that a black male with a degree and no criminal record has a harder time finding a job than a white male with a criminal record and no degree.
Anyone can say "No I don't believe that" but if someone backs it up with data and I can read the study and see their methods then it is believable to me. From personal experience as a black male with a degree it's always been the way I perceived it.
@boogiechillen123 Not only that but in any kind of economy minorities, especially blacks, are the last to be hired and first to be fired statistically.
So yeah, I still do think we need affirmative action in education, until the career playing field is more level.
AA really wasnt started because of wealth and status but because blacks (who were actually qualified) were being locked out of positions at white colleges (and firms) solely based on their race for decades. If there was a color-blind process of choosing students and employees it would be different, but I'm sure you know that the gold old boy network is still largely in effect.
The middle class, well-educated and advantaged black person you speak of is an exception to the rule. Most black people are economically disadvantaged (much moreso than the average white american), proven by the (very well-documented) large wealth gap between the races in America. This only demonstrates that race issues are often intertwined with class issues. Affirmative action is not "preferential treatment".
@GataAgressiva411 i agree with this but instead of ignoring the (still sizable) white underclass, let's make it about disadvantage not race. instead of wasting it on a black person who had advantages, let's give it to those who did not, of any race. it may be mostly blacks but does that mean we ignore disadvantaged rural white so we can help an affluent black? that's why basing it on race does instead of disadvantage.
@khemeticone Race being intertwined with class means "black" is more often than not synonymous with "poor" (with few exceptions). This is not the case for whites. It therefore makes sense to have such a group receive benefits, since their race implies that they are also systematically underprivileged. Even though there are disadvantaged whites, white people on average are still as a group more economically and socially advantaged than blacks as a group, again as proven by the racial wealth gap.
@GataAgressiva411 i don't think "more often". we are only 11% of population. there are more poor whites by numbers just higher %age of black. you don't apply to college as a group representing your race's average. you apply as an individual. why should one of the many poor and disadvantaged whites be passed over for the child of obama? that is extreme example but i think you see my point maybe?
@khemeticone "we are only 11% of the population"...you are taking my comments out of their proper context. I cannot repeat myself.
You most certainly apply to college representing your racial group, rather than an individual. That is why we check off a race box on the application, along with gender, religion, etc.
Again, my comment was meant to go against the idea of taking exceptions to rules and making them examples of the collective. Extreme examples such as Obama don't apply. I disagree.
@GataAgressiva411 when you applied to college did you put the average black gpa down? when you applied for aid did you put the average black income? you put yours because you were only representing you not your race or your height or something. when you put 3.5gpa did you represent every 3.5? extreme examples do apply because they make up the average. you can't exempt extreme examples from the black race just like you shouldn't exempt the many poor whites who are disadvantaged from aa
@GataAgressiva411 nah, i just said you are beautiful. i wasn't disrespectful. it'd be cool if you let me comment again. i'm into your way of thinking. that's all.
@GataAgressiva411 Well I didn't mean to. I'm pretty much nice to everyone on YT. I really like your vids. Some of the more interesting ones. Would be cool if you unblocked me.
The point of affirmative action is not that rich, well-educated black folk don't exist. This is the strawman argument that I think you're putting forward, Protean.
@Maxstate he didn't say the point of aa was that well-educated blacks don't exist. did you even comprehend the video the way most were able to? his point is that why should a well-educated and advantaged black be allowed to benefit from it just because of his skin? i am black but sometimes i think black americans hear what they want to hear in order to be a victim.
@khemeticone The argument he's making simply devolves into a reverse collective punishment argument. If a well-off black man exists, who could possibly take advantage of a system such as affirmative action, then this would be unfair; and this is 'the' reason to oppose affirmative action altogether. It is collective punishment. Any teleological interpretation of affirmative action should paint it as an overall and net good. Look up the statistics for how many black men get into uni on AA.
@Maxstate There's not many black men in college period lmao, I swear we have 70 at my school out of 10,000...don't even get me started on latinos, there's like 3....
@jazzyphay21 That is my point. Something like a quarter of a percent of all college applications that are accepted fall under affirmative action in the first place. If you want to criticize it, do so for it not going far enough. It is still a net good, it is just not as scary or unfair as people think it is.
@jazzyphay21 To make this clear: my point was explaining the argument that Protean makes in this video regarding affirmative action. I do not endorse his view and was arguing against it. I should add to my reply to khemeticone, that: collective punishment of all blacks, simply because well-off blacks exist, is wrong.
@Maxstate collective punishment? he's just asking why someone who had advantage should be treated as disadvantaged based on race. you're making more out of it so you can be a victim. he never said he opposes aa altogether either. you put words into his mouth. he suggests it should be based on.... disadvantage. if that includes a lot of blacks, then that will be reflected but it won't automatically include every black and it won't exclude disadvantaged people of other races.
@khemeticone There are several problems with your description of his argument. For one, 'disadvantage' for Protean seems to disappear at the moment we start talking about a middle-class black family. I was saying that this misses the point. Furthermore, I have nothing against including other races in affirmative action - but there are much better ways of ensuring a more fair playing field than just affirmative action.
@khemeticone Because a well-educated and economically advantaged black male is still at a career disadvantage due to skin color and facial features?
If employers currently discriminate against blacks based on skin color, and they do, and we remove affirmative action based on skin color from education institutions, how long will it take before education institutions slide back into discriminating against blacks like they did before affirmative action?
I take offense to the idea that you think whites are inherent discriminators, President Obama did not need affirmative action to get elected to the countries highest office, If I was black I would be just as disturbed at the idea that I did not gain acceptance because I was the best candidate for the job , but because they needed to fill a color based quota & even it meant passing over better candidates then me.
@Obasiliasfilosofos What makes you think I said whites are inherent discriminators? o.O I said that statistics have shown that blacks are typically the last to be hired and the first to be fired. Given all other factors are equal, such as experience, education, etc.
President Obama is biracial, something that was a factor in being able to carry a few of the more prejudiced southern states. Hillary Clinton herself implied that she would be a better pick due to a few prejudiced states.
@Obasiliasfilosofos On while were on the topic of offense. I take extreme offense that you think because there is a black (biracial) president that somehow affirmative action is not needed. That somehow workplace discrimination against blacks disappears, housing discrimination disappears.
I'm not disturbed at all by affirmative action, I am disturbed that we as a nation still need affirmative action for blacks to be represented fairly in career fields without discrimination.
I left a post on part 2 that better sums up my thoughts on this, If you believe strongly that it's still necessary 40 years since civil rights I guess we have failed as a nation , but do you blame me for believing that was not the case?
@regemo if i am both educated and economically advantaged, where am i getting this economic advantage w/o a good career, hm?
because of facial features? the highest job in the country is held by a man with black features. why is the president of ivy league brown u. black?
employers can discriminate against anybody - blacks, white, gorgeous, young. you're assuming employers are just white & that they will discriminate, yet most voted for a mixed pres, the highest job.
@khemeticone There are successful blacks, in terms of both education and wealth. That does not take away from the fact that they have an increased difficulty to that success because they are black, or female, or whatever. That's why I still support affirmative action for groups that are statistically disadvantaged due to systemic causes.
In other words, most employers I hope aren't being purposely racist, but there is a subconscious bias that affects the statistics on a larger scale.
@khemeticone The election is a whole different can of worms. Hilary Clinton made a case in the primaries that she was the better choice because black male politicians have had difficulty carrying certain states. And it was a valid point.
I think to pretend that because we have elected a very light skin biracial president then we have now somehow erased years of prejudice against dark skin black people in terms of education, career, finances, and the justice system is just delusional...
I would be interested to know how you have made it through life and in no way have been influenced by affirmative action. As a black man making these statements about upbringing I just wonder if you did have advantage? That being said, where did your advantage come from? hard work? Of course we work hard but there is a point where in predominantly white settings, hard work is not enough. Research has shown the impact of white privilege in various settings, it is real.
@Onedoor11 maybe he wasn't influenced by aa. he might have benefited from it, but who knows? if pro was from a well off family and went to a good school, he had more advantage than most people of any color. why would he need special consideration for college? you should have some poor white family in mountains with missing teeth explain their privilege to protean in his fancy kitchen. i am black too but black americans can be so ignorant and whiny and illogical.
@khemeticone Why is it that the comparison continues to be made to poor white people, how many poor white people are there vs. poor black people in relation to the general population by race? I grew up in a middle class black family with parents who could barely keep jobs even with bachelors degrees and that poor white family produced uneducated men and women who work with myself and my family. Reality is, if I am poor and black I have a harder time getting a job than a poor white person.
@Onedoor11 there are a lot more poor white people. blacks are only 11% of us population. of course a higher percentage are poor. but what difference does it make? should their disadvantage be ignored? reality is if you're a poor white from a bad school you have a tough time even getting into college in the first place. if you're a poor black there's aa and scholarships. aa should be based on disadvantage. why do blk americans like to have a monopoly on disadvantage? ur not only ones
@khemeticone What difference does a higher % of your people living in poverty make? I don't know maybe being underrepresented in almost every domain of life, especially Universities. There are many scholarship opportunities for whites as well & are often set up in ways so only whites know about them. High poverty rates create our monopoly, this is not something to be proud of. I will agree to disagree because it seems like you do not feel that there are advantages to being white and I do.
@Onedoor11 there are no scholarships "for" whites. there are plenty for blacks. there is no secret code for whites to find scholarships. that is a weak argument. high poverty rates mean a higher percentage of blacks may get aa but it doesn't support a "monopoly". like pro says you think disadvantaged whites do not exist.
@khemeticone Yes there are white scholarships they are usually the privately funded scholarships, I don't really care if you think it is a weak argument, that just means you disagree. So you are saying that black people are trying to monopolize on poverty? Have you ever experienced poverty? I do believe that disadvantaged whites exist but once again I believe white privilege allows for the gap to be bridged much quicker. Research supports white privilege as well, its nothing new.
@Onedoor11 can you tell me of 1 scholarship specifically designated for whites as there are scholarships specifically designated for minorities and blacks? just one. many american blacks seem to think they have a monopoly on being disadvantaged and that no one else can be. how does so-called white privilege bridge the gap for a poor white from mountains w/missing teeth and 8th grade education? how about those poor white miners? when does their privilege kick in? a mid class black is better off
@khemeticone the ones from country clubs or businesses that white students families are involved in or connected to for exmpl. White privilege is the idea support by research such as the dolls studies showing preference for whites at early ages. Once again we compare different economics statutes of ppl. Ok, u have 10 poor white kids, 2 poor black kids apply to school and disadvantaged is the criteria along with academics no race, who gets it? We have more white ppl but less are disadvantaged.
@Onedoor11 which country clubs? u assume all country clubs are all white. old racist assumption. a scholarship in iceland isn't a white scholarship. it's just that the pool happen 2b mostly white like some churches are black. there are actual scholarships designated 4 blacks. the dolls study isn't about privilege. it's about taste. right now, talk dark and handsome men are in style. in your scenario, if they're all disadvantaged, the most qualified of the lot should get in. what's your point?
the well off black person you talk about would be at a disadvantage when compared to a white person with the exact same upbringing and socioeconomic status. comparing rich blacks to poor whites is out of context.
Sometimes rhetorical logic seems iron clad if you're only interested in the word-play equation....We've established that its wrong to discriminate based on race, therefore surely its wrong to offer assistance based on race.... As rhetoric it makes sense but it's actually just a cynical concept reversal which ignores the real issue: Race based disadvantage. Can we acknowledge disadvantage but reject any attempt to address it because the language is too easy to manipulate? Is that real logic?
The problem with this argument is that it ignores the facts/statistics regarding minority and dominant groups. Yes there are rich black people & poor white people, but statistically minorities are disadvantaged in education, labor & political representation. That is why they're called minorities. This bill doesn't just admit minority students based on race it allows schools to take it into account among other things. Your hypothetical student's race probably wouldn't be considered under the bill
"..there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents"
"The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society."
"The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendancy"
These Berkley idiots need to be original. I saw this "Bake Sale" idea on Boston Public a while ago where a white guy who was mad about not getting into Harvard did this and started a fight with a black guy in the scene. The whole reason as to why this bake sale came about is because some whites believe their opportunities are being limited because of affirmative action.
@ockraz y'all can thank me for that, lol. I wanted people to see a "colored" man taking an unpopular stance on the issue of AA. I happen to believe this is the correct side of the issue. It's wrong to decided ANYTHING based on race or gender. It should be merit and nothing else.
The Berkeley Democrat girl in the video you responded to said the bake sale wasn't right because the Berkeley Republicans were making a joke of race issues... but how else should they make their point? The bake sale illustrates it in a way that's very simple and easy to understand. I think liberals just like to cry they're offended when they don't have any intelligent counterarguments.
@einLesenderArbeiter There are many better ways to get the point across. They can focus on impact of affirmative action middle class families, rather than just complaining that white people pay more. To communicate we must build trust with the listener, yet the bake sale only offends the very people they are trying to convince. Those who think it was clever probably already agreed with them. If they aren't changing minds then what is the point of this exercise? It is shouting in the dark.
@mscottleonard ok, and what are some of these better ways? ways that are feasible, make the point clear, and don't cost a lot of money to put together? maybe their bake sale wasn't a very clever idea and maybe it won't convince a lot of people, but at least it's bringing attention to the issue and getting people thinking and talking about it.
@Vebinz Who was given the mandate of promoting diversity? Racial Diversity? Gender Diversity? Do you realize how elitist that comment even sounds? To what other areas should diversity balances be prescribed to? Why stop at education? Where does this line of reasoning stop?
As a female and person of color I'm offended that proponents of Affirmative Action think I need their help to get into a good college. No one should be going to a school they aren't qualified to attend, if you didn't do as well in academics and didn't participate in activities (like student council for example) you don't get in! Sucks for you, you didn't work as hard as someone else did and the one who did work should get in. Basing anything on race is racist.
@vikingWindmill he doesn't seem startled to me. just commenting on the clever way these people are making their point and agreeing. also, america hardly has a monopoly on racism.
I know a lot of Americans that said that their friends thought they were racist because they didn't vote for Obama. That's a major race problem if you ask me.
But both McCain and Obama are evil btw. They're both influenced by the same bank masters.
Affirmative Action assumes certain races to be intrinsically incapable, and/or less able than others. This is about as racist as anything, and is an insult to humanity.
I did not know I was poor and disadvantaged when I was a kid and my father died, leaving my skilless mother to forage for menial jobs and try to keep me from getting into trouble. I did not feel priviledged or get advantages just because my skin was white. I shines shoes, sold newspapers and ran errands to help my mom make it. I felt good contributing. By luck, I lived in New York City and was able to go to free City College. That was a socialist kind of equal affirmative action to all like me.
The Ecological Error/Fallacy. It's were dumb or malicious people propagate assumptions on individuals based upon attributes of a set that individual can be placed in. For example a guy buys a Mercedes because he thinks they're well built and reliable, when he lifts the bonnet up he finds he forgot to check if it had an engine. To be brutal most people fall for this kind of fallacy because they're stupid but the people who generate them generally do for some malicious purpose.
I know this has nothing to do with anything, but has anyone ever told you that you look alot like the character Ulysees from the videogame "Fallout: New Vegas"?
They already have programs to help people based on privilege, affirmative action is applied on top of that.
I disagree with your argument because you're relying on the anecdote of a well-off black student and ignoring the studies and statistics showing that blacks are institutionally disadvantaged in our society compared to other race groups, which is what affirmative action seeks to address. It's not perfect and may be 'unfair' in some cases, but overall it's more fair than doing nothing.
i agree that there are individual cases where affirmative action is so laughably unfair, like the case you are talking about. But at the same time, i think the position of MOST blacks in america is a fair justification for affirmative action. The idea isn't to make life better for one individual or another, but to re-engineer society so that blacks as a whole are in a better position.
There's something very condescending behind the idea of affirmiative action. It's sort of like a statement towards blacks saying that we won't be equal until blacks conform to the standards set by white people in reference to college numbers. It's ultimately a policy that doesn't respect race and is really an easily abused system built from white guilt.
@thejobloshow It is condescending. It's saying that, even if you have a 3.8 at a good school, we need to give you "special" consideration. That is racist against blacks as if just being black means you need help, never mind the fact that your parents might be educated and well off and you well educated.
Nobody is economically disavantaged (at least in the united states) when it comes to accessing a high quality education. IF you have access to high speed internet connection, you have access to education at MIT , Stanford , IIT, and Oxford. You can have access to videos that teach you high school math, and computer programming. There are a plethora of tutorial centers online ,free books, and you can learn a foreign language. education is cheap if you no where to look
@Pentazoid111 WHAT? do you know how much kids dont have computers at home? and their parents cant afford any internets? the poor in America may not be as bad off as in other countries, But they live a much different life than the middle class.
@JUDALATION People don't have commputers in their home not because they can't afford but because they don't buy them. Statistics shows that most of the poor can afford a flat screen tv, television and a car. If the poorest americans can afford these three things, then they can afford to buy a computer and internet connection. My laptop cost me $200 and my internet connection is 13 dollars per month. Thats Cheap.
@Pentazoid111 You are an idiot... You clearly dont know anything about the TRUE poverty in America.. People without Jobs, with kids, with debt, like over half of Americans, cannot afford these luxories. Go to any public library and see how many are using the internets. You need to get out of the conservative myth that the poor are well off in America. Families cant eat. People are going homeless. They are selling their wedding rings Where I live Unemployment is Around 30% They cant pay car insur
That isn't true. You are clearly the uninformed one: According to the census bureau of reports: "Forty-three percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio." cont;d
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Here's a good video you can use to argue against those affirmative action Marxists: youtube.com/watch?v=6uH0vpGZJCo
ActaNonVerba71 2 weeks ago
if people such as the video uploader werent so intellectually lazy, and could actually analyze the political and social realities of this country, an "affirmative action bake sale" would go like this: Whites would pay pennies....Blacks would pay 10 dollars, Hispanics 8....etc. With affirmative action, Blacks would pay 9 dollars, hispanics 7....whites would perhaps have to pay .50 at most.
flipgood89 2 months ago
DIVERSITY!!! I don't care what it means, I just like advocating it!
UltraProle21 4 months ago
Excellent video, Protean. I don't agree with you on all of the videos you put out, but this one is absolutely spot on. Kudos.
DrNordo 4 months ago
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I wish more people were as rational as you. Racism will never end as long as people aren't treated as equals.
On the other hand, I think that everybody needs access to a higher education for people to have a chance at being equal, but this shouldn't be done by giving some students preferential treatment. It needs to start in grade school, with equal funding to schools, and remedial help for those who need it, and secondary schooling needs to be accessible to anybody willing to work for it.
Primalxbeast 5 months ago
I wish more people were as rational as you. Racism will never end as long as people aren't treated as equals.
On the other hand, I think that everybody needs access to a higher education for people to have a chance at being equal, but this shouldn't be done by giving some students preferential treatment. It needs to start in grade school, with equal funding to schools, and remedial help for those who need it, and secondary schooling needs to be accessible to anybody willing to work for it.
Primalxbeast 5 months ago
@Primalxbeast ...I fail to understand how addressing inequality and discrimination is "preferential treatment" for minorities. The whole idea behind affirmative action is to counter preferential treatment for whites.
flipgood89 2 months ago
You just dont get it. It isnt about being 'disadvantaged' or even 'diversity'. Its about displacing whites / war on whites.
immuntocrap2 5 months ago
Well said!!!! Many of the liberals on the event page for the bake sale have taken it upon themselves to call us 'racist' and even post pictures such as the Pillsbury Doughboy doing the Hitler salute, which to ME anyway, tries to suggest that because we are against SB 185 that we are automatically racist. I am going to watch part 2 now. Thank you for your well thought out response.
PanteraChick 5 months ago
Within modern times, surely. I am no historian.
Frankly I am rather disappointed. I had viewed Mr. Obama's election as being a possibility to set right some things which I did not do, nor did my parents, but which I was willing to accept responsibility for for the chance of comity.
I wonder if those are the feelings which are making me support Herman Cain now. Even though he's never had governing experience. But as far as solving problems, he's a hell of a man.
No, I'm right to support him.
daustins 5 months ago
One of his best. And he's great because the media is the message. The white brand has been so tarred by charges of racism that it is impossible for an innocent white to clear himself of a racism charge, even if false. It's the seriousness of the charge. This is not to say don't throw the book at real racists.
America is not racist. We elected Obama BECAUSE he's black and he has the slimmest resume of any president of all time.
daustins 5 months ago
@daustins Obama was elected because of his race? Do you think americans are that stupid? That sounds very ignorant. So you're saying that he was elected because of his race and it had nothing to do with McCain and Sarah Palin possibly becoming the next president and vice president of the US? What if McCain died in office, we would have Sarah Palin as president and guess what, you most likely voted for them. It also had nothing to do with Bush tarnishing the Republican platform.
1con0clast 5 months ago
@daustins Are you willing to stand by your "and he has the slimmest resume of any president of all time." remark? I assume you are including every president the US has ever had, since you did say "of all time."
1con0clast 5 months ago
This is America, land of the free. Free stuff? Where I have the right to seek opportunity, not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen. Humbled and dulled by having the State look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream. To fail and to succeed. I prefer the challenges to life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence NOR MY DIGNITY FOR A HANDOUT. Great video.
josiahho1 5 months ago
Yeah there's poor, uneducated whites. But if there weren't, the inequality would even be greater.
A big misconception is that racism is caused by skin color. But it's really caused by class. When a certain ethnicity disproportionately represent a certain economic class, that when racism happen. Affirmative action tries to lessen that and even it out.
seraphimo7 5 months ago
I have a Ranchero in my front yard. It's kind of like an El Camino except it was made by Ford instead of Chevy. Does that count?
jabberwock11 5 months ago
"How is a black man with ivy league parents in an upscale neighborhood disadvantaged?"
Well, see, right off the bat we can't have a discussion about AA because there's already a severe misunderstanding of the goals. AA isn't necessarily about helping the disadvantaged as much as it is increasing the presence of minorities on established campuses and workplaces. Even if that black goes on to graduate with a degree he still faces hurdle wrt job promotions, employment simply by the color of skin
cannedkitty 5 months ago
To me, this sounds like a 50/50 kind of thing. Isn't it?
mike61524334251 5 months ago
great video man. just because someones white doesnt mean hes living large. you are right, most of this country is out of work rural white people that dont have a goddamn pot to piss in.
boojwahz 5 months ago 2
@boojwahz Regardless of income,whites get the benefit of the doubt simply by being the default race. Whites get to have their personalities be the first impression of their character, minorities have their skin color be the first impression of their character and have to work beyond their skin color to be acknowledged as a person by the race that tends to be in positions of power (whites) Also poor rural whites aren't looked over by AA. Admissions officers do consider income no matter what race.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Charles0in0charge 5 months ago
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Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Charles0in0charge 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Charles0in0charge 5 months ago
Thats Not affirmative action... Most affirmative action programs are based on area not race, what you are describing is a quota system, which is commonly confused for affirmative action.
Charles0in0charge 5 months ago
Protean, I agree with some of your veiws and disagree with some, but this is one of your greatest video of all time. Thank you for saying this. Because I'm white, if I say this, I get immediately labeled as "racist". They need to hear it from a black man. God broke the mold when he made you protean.
LEFT4BASS 5 months ago 7
Read Joe Bageant's essays on this and other topics. He recently died. This said...class issues are still connected with race, regardless of affirmative action. Affirmative action was put in place to level the playing field, and rightfully so, I might add. And it did so, for a period of time, not nearly enough in my estimation.There is entrenched wealth in this nation, mostly white, and some minorities advanced. But educational standards should not be lowered to meet simple quotas.
55ella2007k 5 months ago
@55ella2007k >>>(continued): the educational system cannot function via simplistic formulas and needs to take each student's achievements and potential into account. Instead, we are now raising drones for the market place, no matter what race it is. This is in long-run a prescription for disaster. Everything in education needs a healthy dose of individualism, not just test scores, but the fostering of critical thought, which cannot be tested via automated test scores alone.
55ella2007k 5 months ago
Also if AA is to correct historical wrongs why do immigrants arriving after 1965 qualify? At base this is about who gets in- admissions so AA should not be discussed in isolation. Include legacy, athletes, drama student, geography, etc, etc. Otherwise its disengenuous and merely a pissing contest. As for AA need should be #1 criteria .
tradingTwelve 5 months ago
Why in these discussions about AA do we exclude women? We have made the greatest gains in gender. Insert a young white female using the same scenario you set up for the black kid-family, etc. What about young white female vs young white disadvantaged male?
tradingTwelve 5 months ago
@tradingTwelve they didn't exclude women. they said women get a 25 cent discount in the bake sale.
einLesenderArbeiter 5 months ago
@einLesenderArbeiter - Wasn't talking about the bake sale. I was referring to the discussion we (all of us) have around the issue of AA. Protean's part 1 video, the example was a black person. I agree with his sentiment but just pointed out that race (particularly black face as representative) is what we focus on when considering amending/ending the policy. if we no longer need it, certainly gender-the area where we've made the most gains should go 1st but its missing from the conversation.
tradingTwelve 5 months ago
Dude I think I love you you said everything so well and are 100% right and intelligent sounding dude im subscribing :p
Akwasiman 5 months ago
funny
biguy617 5 months ago
well you know how the rest of it goes don't you ?
The Jewish man walks up and says I think it's only fair that I get them for 5c a cupcake and I wan't five. may I have my quarter now please ?
The muslim says you must give me the same amount for free that the jew got or it's cupcake Jihad!
The Italian guido looks up after scooping up a handfull and says hey you were giving them away for free.
The native American lady and the three east Indian woman all walked away with a tray each!
Curas1 5 months ago
While i don't agree with their message it is an interesting and creative way to protest. I doubt they'd get many minorities to donate if they singled them out like that though.
GKCanman 5 months ago
@GKCanman
well.. they single them out with favors though...
if i was a native american woman... shit son, i'd be walking away set for LIFE with cookies.
bla34112 5 months ago
No, i do not support the AA based on race.
Yes, i would support the AA based on income.
I like this bake sale. They are satirizing racism, or better, something they perceive as racism. They communicated this in a very clear and clever way, and even if i probably don't really agree with their overall agenda, i don't really see whats wrong with it.
In fact i applaud them for speaking in such clear terms.
bla34112 5 months ago
Well said. I am a mix like most in this country, however, my skin is white. Neither of my parents were college educated and they worked hard but could not even afford to send me to a community college. I never got to go to college, I had to choose trade schools. I agree with what you said advantage today isn't race, it's your school, your parents back account, your neighborhood, etc. Thanks so much for speaking up.
Lady0Pamela 5 months ago
They'll be arguing this on the same campus in Chinese 10 years from now because we can't get beyond our past and move on like other countries.
Bill1275w 5 months ago
I’d argue this is connected to how everything is “for profit” in this country. Even deans who don’t run their universities like Harvard still have to accommodate commercial builders, textbook publishers, commercial custodians, educational software companies and endless other expenses from those resource-providers who are “for profit”. And, on AVERAGE, blacks & Hispanics have less savings/lower incomes. Socialize education and you relieve need for “hindsight fairness”.
freddietz96 5 months ago
Affirmative Action is for dumb ppl.
ashken79 5 months ago
I've always thought Affirmative Action programs were an insult to "minorities," because it was essentially saying that certain people needed help to build capital, although never specifying why. Not having AA is the least racist policy possible, because that indicates all any group needs is to have full democratic rights, and their own capabilities will take them the rest of the way. But so what, I find almost everyone politically aligns with their own race, whether they realize it or not.
Ponerology 5 months ago
I'd say you are a clear-minded person, and I highly respect you. Too bad people like you aren't the norm in the US haha
nardmanman 5 months ago
I would love to have an El Camino. A well restored one can be worth some serious money
WKaliberr 5 months ago
Socialism > Capitalism
WKaliberr 5 months ago
two things I somewhat agree with you in terms of affirmative action in colleges tends to help rich and upper middle class minorities who a lot of time are children of immigrants and not americans who have faced historical discrimination. I like Bush idea of how to reform it based upon need for colleges. I disagree with u that being apart of the dominate culture does give an advantage to the person. While affirmative action programs should not be eliminated but adapted.
smoothbrother69 5 months ago
I think the idea of the bake sale to raise awareness to the problem is a good thing. I can't wait for the day when people understand that you do not fight racism by implanting another form of racism, like the old saying goes 2 wrongs don't make a right.
I always enjoy your videos, thank you and keep up the good work.
TheRenekruse 5 months ago
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I think it should be if they want to do this based on their families income bracket that way anyone who is disadvantaged can get the help they need. Also too there should be a max on how much debt schools are aloud to put on their students, no one should graduate and have to basically buy their school a really good house after. It's different if people can afford to spend that much but the majority of everyone can't.
MistressArte 5 months ago
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MistressArte 5 months ago
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spectatortots 5 months ago
When we get to the point as a nation when a black male with a bachelors degree and no criminal record gets as many job offers as a white male with a felony and no bachelors degree, then...
Then I think we can do away with affirmative action. Until then, yeah I think a middle class black student does need need affirmative action at beginning of their career.
regemo 5 months ago
@regemo- So qualified black males with bachelor's degrees and no criminal record are being passed up for jobs in favor of white males with felony criminal records and no bachelors degrees???
What planet are you living on? Because it sure ain't the same one I'm living on. When occupational affirmative action was in place, employers had to spend big money trying to recruit the kind of black males you're talking about, they just weren't around.
boogiechillen123 5 months ago
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regemo 5 months ago
@boogiechillen123 Yeah there are a couple studies that demonstrate that a black male with a degree and no criminal record has a harder time finding a job than a white male with a criminal record and no degree.
Anyone can say "No I don't believe that" but if someone backs it up with data and I can read the study and see their methods then it is believable to me. From personal experience as a black male with a degree it's always been the way I perceived it.
regemo 5 months ago
@regemo Name some of these studies.
rgmztxy 5 months ago
@boogiechillen123 Not only that but in any kind of economy minorities, especially blacks, are the last to be hired and first to be fired statistically.
So yeah, I still do think we need affirmative action in education, until the career playing field is more level.
regemo 5 months ago
It's because of "White privilege", what exactly white privilege is is not ever discussed, and I've asked and been told not to ask. But it's there!
Mastikator 5 months ago
Excellent video.
GrapplingIgnorance 5 months ago
I agree with this video. Well done.
WakeboardStud28 5 months ago
Good video & I agree w/ you, need should be greater factor than race.
Adnaana 5 months ago
BRAVO!
delikedi17 5 months ago
According to the price list at the end of the video, a Native American woman could get free stuff.
bobpeters61 5 months ago
AA really wasnt started because of wealth and status but because blacks (who were actually qualified) were being locked out of positions at white colleges (and firms) solely based on their race for decades. If there was a color-blind process of choosing students and employees it would be different, but I'm sure you know that the gold old boy network is still largely in effect.
robertantonnyc 5 months ago in playlist my recent videos
The message of this video is dead-on.
OthelloCarmellow 5 months ago
aw man. I wanted some of them 80cent brownies. I know you was gonna add a little extra ; -- )
robertantonnyc 5 months ago in playlist my recent videos
Sounds like I need to get some actors makeup and a Mrs. Doubtfire suit. Failing that find actors makeup that matches your skin tone.
startreking2007 5 months ago
The middle class, well-educated and advantaged black person you speak of is an exception to the rule. Most black people are economically disadvantaged (much moreso than the average white american), proven by the (very well-documented) large wealth gap between the races in America. This only demonstrates that race issues are often intertwined with class issues. Affirmative action is not "preferential treatment".
GataAgressiva411 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 i agree with this but instead of ignoring the (still sizable) white underclass, let's make it about disadvantage not race. instead of wasting it on a black person who had advantages, let's give it to those who did not, of any race. it may be mostly blacks but does that mean we ignore disadvantaged rural white so we can help an affluent black? that's why basing it on race does instead of disadvantage.
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone Race being intertwined with class means "black" is more often than not synonymous with "poor" (with few exceptions). This is not the case for whites. It therefore makes sense to have such a group receive benefits, since their race implies that they are also systematically underprivileged. Even though there are disadvantaged whites, white people on average are still as a group more economically and socially advantaged than blacks as a group, again as proven by the racial wealth gap.
GataAgressiva411 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 i don't think "more often". we are only 11% of population. there are more poor whites by numbers just higher %age of black. you don't apply to college as a group representing your race's average. you apply as an individual. why should one of the many poor and disadvantaged whites be passed over for the child of obama? that is extreme example but i think you see my point maybe?
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone "we are only 11% of the population"...you are taking my comments out of their proper context. I cannot repeat myself.
You most certainly apply to college representing your racial group, rather than an individual. That is why we check off a race box on the application, along with gender, religion, etc.
Again, my comment was meant to go against the idea of taking exceptions to rules and making them examples of the collective. Extreme examples such as Obama don't apply. I disagree.
GataAgressiva411 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 when you applied to college did you put the average black gpa down? when you applied for aid did you put the average black income? you put yours because you were only representing you not your race or your height or something. when you put 3.5gpa did you represent every 3.5? extreme examples do apply because they make up the average. you can't exempt extreme examples from the black race just like you shouldn't exempt the many poor whites who are disadvantaged from aa
khemeticone 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 Thank you for getting it.
cannedkitty 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 I like your vids. Why did you block me?
igotsissues 5 months ago
@igotsissues I forget, but you must have said something really fucked up for me to do that.
GataAgressiva411 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 nah, i just said you are beautiful. i wasn't disrespectful. it'd be cool if you let me comment again. i'm into your way of thinking. that's all.
igotsissues 5 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 Well I didn't mean to. I'm pretty much nice to everyone on YT. I really like your vids. Some of the more interesting ones. Would be cool if you unblocked me.
igotsissues 4 months ago
@GataAgressiva411 Bitch
igotsissues 3 months ago
The point of affirmative action is not that rich, well-educated black folk don't exist. This is the strawman argument that I think you're putting forward, Protean.
Maxstate 5 months ago
@Maxstate he didn't say the point of aa was that well-educated blacks don't exist. did you even comprehend the video the way most were able to? his point is that why should a well-educated and advantaged black be allowed to benefit from it just because of his skin? i am black but sometimes i think black americans hear what they want to hear in order to be a victim.
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone The argument he's making simply devolves into a reverse collective punishment argument. If a well-off black man exists, who could possibly take advantage of a system such as affirmative action, then this would be unfair; and this is 'the' reason to oppose affirmative action altogether. It is collective punishment. Any teleological interpretation of affirmative action should paint it as an overall and net good. Look up the statistics for how many black men get into uni on AA.
Maxstate 5 months ago
@Maxstate There's not many black men in college period lmao, I swear we have 70 at my school out of 10,000...don't even get me started on latinos, there's like 3....
jazzyphay21 5 months ago
@jazzyphay21 That is my point. Something like a quarter of a percent of all college applications that are accepted fall under affirmative action in the first place. If you want to criticize it, do so for it not going far enough. It is still a net good, it is just not as scary or unfair as people think it is.
Maxstate 5 months ago
@jazzyphay21 To make this clear: my point was explaining the argument that Protean makes in this video regarding affirmative action. I do not endorse his view and was arguing against it. I should add to my reply to khemeticone, that: collective punishment of all blacks, simply because well-off blacks exist, is wrong.
Maxstate 5 months ago
@Maxstate collective punishment? he's just asking why someone who had advantage should be treated as disadvantaged based on race. you're making more out of it so you can be a victim. he never said he opposes aa altogether either. you put words into his mouth. he suggests it should be based on.... disadvantage. if that includes a lot of blacks, then that will be reflected but it won't automatically include every black and it won't exclude disadvantaged people of other races.
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone There are several problems with your description of his argument. For one, 'disadvantage' for Protean seems to disappear at the moment we start talking about a middle-class black family. I was saying that this misses the point. Furthermore, I have nothing against including other races in affirmative action - but there are much better ways of ensuring a more fair playing field than just affirmative action.
Maxstate 5 months ago
@khemeticone Because a well-educated and economically advantaged black male is still at a career disadvantage due to skin color and facial features?
If employers currently discriminate against blacks based on skin color, and they do, and we remove affirmative action based on skin color from education institutions, how long will it take before education institutions slide back into discriminating against blacks like they did before affirmative action?
regemo 5 months ago
@regemo
I take offense to the idea that you think whites are inherent discriminators, President Obama did not need affirmative action to get elected to the countries highest office, If I was black I would be just as disturbed at the idea that I did not gain acceptance because I was the best candidate for the job , but because they needed to fill a color based quota & even it meant passing over better candidates then me.
Obasiliasfilosofos 5 months ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos What makes you think I said whites are inherent discriminators? o.O I said that statistics have shown that blacks are typically the last to be hired and the first to be fired. Given all other factors are equal, such as experience, education, etc.
President Obama is biracial, something that was a factor in being able to carry a few of the more prejudiced southern states. Hillary Clinton herself implied that she would be a better pick due to a few prejudiced states.
regemo 5 months ago
@Obasiliasfilosofos On while were on the topic of offense. I take extreme offense that you think because there is a black (biracial) president that somehow affirmative action is not needed. That somehow workplace discrimination against blacks disappears, housing discrimination disappears.
I'm not disturbed at all by affirmative action, I am disturbed that we as a nation still need affirmative action for blacks to be represented fairly in career fields without discrimination.
regemo 5 months ago
@regemo
I left a post on part 2 that better sums up my thoughts on this, If you believe strongly that it's still necessary 40 years since civil rights I guess we have failed as a nation , but do you blame me for believing that was not the case?
Obasiliasfilosofos 5 months ago
@regemo if i am both educated and economically advantaged, where am i getting this economic advantage w/o a good career, hm?
because of facial features? the highest job in the country is held by a man with black features. why is the president of ivy league brown u. black?
employers can discriminate against anybody - blacks, white, gorgeous, young. you're assuming employers are just white & that they will discriminate, yet most voted for a mixed pres, the highest job.
wanna try again?
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone There are successful blacks, in terms of both education and wealth. That does not take away from the fact that they have an increased difficulty to that success because they are black, or female, or whatever. That's why I still support affirmative action for groups that are statistically disadvantaged due to systemic causes.
In other words, most employers I hope aren't being purposely racist, but there is a subconscious bias that affects the statistics on a larger scale.
regemo 5 months ago
@khemeticone The election is a whole different can of worms. Hilary Clinton made a case in the primaries that she was the better choice because black male politicians have had difficulty carrying certain states. And it was a valid point.
I think to pretend that because we have elected a very light skin biracial president then we have now somehow erased years of prejudice against dark skin black people in terms of education, career, finances, and the justice system is just delusional...
regemo 5 months ago
I would be interested to know how you have made it through life and in no way have been influenced by affirmative action. As a black man making these statements about upbringing I just wonder if you did have advantage? That being said, where did your advantage come from? hard work? Of course we work hard but there is a point where in predominantly white settings, hard work is not enough. Research has shown the impact of white privilege in various settings, it is real.
Onedoor11 5 months ago
@Onedoor11 maybe he wasn't influenced by aa. he might have benefited from it, but who knows? if pro was from a well off family and went to a good school, he had more advantage than most people of any color. why would he need special consideration for college? you should have some poor white family in mountains with missing teeth explain their privilege to protean in his fancy kitchen. i am black too but black americans can be so ignorant and whiny and illogical.
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone Why is it that the comparison continues to be made to poor white people, how many poor white people are there vs. poor black people in relation to the general population by race? I grew up in a middle class black family with parents who could barely keep jobs even with bachelors degrees and that poor white family produced uneducated men and women who work with myself and my family. Reality is, if I am poor and black I have a harder time getting a job than a poor white person.
Onedoor11 5 months ago
@Onedoor11 there are a lot more poor white people. blacks are only 11% of us population. of course a higher percentage are poor. but what difference does it make? should their disadvantage be ignored? reality is if you're a poor white from a bad school you have a tough time even getting into college in the first place. if you're a poor black there's aa and scholarships. aa should be based on disadvantage. why do blk americans like to have a monopoly on disadvantage? ur not only ones
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone What difference does a higher % of your people living in poverty make? I don't know maybe being underrepresented in almost every domain of life, especially Universities. There are many scholarship opportunities for whites as well & are often set up in ways so only whites know about them. High poverty rates create our monopoly, this is not something to be proud of. I will agree to disagree because it seems like you do not feel that there are advantages to being white and I do.
Onedoor11 5 months ago
@Onedoor11 there are no scholarships "for" whites. there are plenty for blacks. there is no secret code for whites to find scholarships. that is a weak argument. high poverty rates mean a higher percentage of blacks may get aa but it doesn't support a "monopoly". like pro says you think disadvantaged whites do not exist.
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone Yes there are white scholarships they are usually the privately funded scholarships, I don't really care if you think it is a weak argument, that just means you disagree. So you are saying that black people are trying to monopolize on poverty? Have you ever experienced poverty? I do believe that disadvantaged whites exist but once again I believe white privilege allows for the gap to be bridged much quicker. Research supports white privilege as well, its nothing new.
Onedoor11 5 months ago
@Onedoor11 can you tell me of 1 scholarship specifically designated for whites as there are scholarships specifically designated for minorities and blacks? just one. many american blacks seem to think they have a monopoly on being disadvantaged and that no one else can be. how does so-called white privilege bridge the gap for a poor white from mountains w/missing teeth and 8th grade education? how about those poor white miners? when does their privilege kick in? a mid class black is better off
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone the ones from country clubs or businesses that white students families are involved in or connected to for exmpl. White privilege is the idea support by research such as the dolls studies showing preference for whites at early ages. Once again we compare different economics statutes of ppl. Ok, u have 10 poor white kids, 2 poor black kids apply to school and disadvantaged is the criteria along with academics no race, who gets it? We have more white ppl but less are disadvantaged.
Onedoor11 5 months ago
@Onedoor11 which country clubs? u assume all country clubs are all white. old racist assumption. a scholarship in iceland isn't a white scholarship. it's just that the pool happen 2b mostly white like some churches are black. there are actual scholarships designated 4 blacks. the dolls study isn't about privilege. it's about taste. right now, talk dark and handsome men are in style. in your scenario, if they're all disadvantaged, the most qualified of the lot should get in. what's your point?
khemeticone 5 months ago
So if you're Jewish, you'd be charged $100 for a cupcake?
MuhammadVonRaven 5 months ago
the well off black person you talk about would be at a disadvantage when compared to a white person with the exact same upbringing and socioeconomic status. comparing rich blacks to poor whites is out of context.
payasoinfeliz 5 months ago
Sometimes rhetorical logic seems iron clad if you're only interested in the word-play equation....We've established that its wrong to discriminate based on race, therefore surely its wrong to offer assistance based on race.... As rhetoric it makes sense but it's actually just a cynical concept reversal which ignores the real issue: Race based disadvantage. Can we acknowledge disadvantage but reject any attempt to address it because the language is too easy to manipulate? Is that real logic?
DingoBabyEat 5 months ago
... That's what I think.
araya1 5 months ago
The problem with this argument is that it ignores the facts/statistics regarding minority and dominant groups. Yes there are rich black people & poor white people, but statistically minorities are disadvantaged in education, labor & political representation. That is why they're called minorities. This bill doesn't just admit minority students based on race it allows schools to take it into account among other things. Your hypothetical student's race probably wouldn't be considered under the bill
fundifferent1 5 months ago
"..there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents"
"The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society."
"The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendancy"
oolong2 5 months ago
why is it fair?
it may take some time to explain......like about 500 years
personkid20 5 months ago
Agree with you here
Waranle 5 months ago
These Berkley idiots need to be original. I saw this "Bake Sale" idea on Boston Public a while ago where a white guy who was mad about not getting into Harvard did this and started a fight with a black guy in the scene. The whole reason as to why this bake sale came about is because some whites believe their opportunities are being limited because of affirmative action.
wikkidie 5 months ago
Where is the love button?
Ayyadification 5 months ago
Government-driven social-engineering is almost always detrimental both to the people is is designed to "help" and to anyone else involved.
tempjohn1111 5 months ago 5
@tempjohn1111 That is total bullhit. It is governments job to drive social engineering. What do u think the free education system is all about.
smoothbrother69 5 months ago
I'm glad somebody said it! .. and I'm glad it was a black man who did... I admire your courage.
GaelofVirtue 5 months ago
I think you nailed this one!!
Trex1268 5 months ago
This video was posted to the I Support the Increase Diversity Bake Sale page on Facebook
ockraz 5 months ago
@ockraz y'all can thank me for that, lol. I wanted people to see a "colored" man taking an unpopular stance on the issue of AA. I happen to believe this is the correct side of the issue. It's wrong to decided ANYTHING based on race or gender. It should be merit and nothing else.
OriettaRose 5 months ago
The Berkeley Democrat girl in the video you responded to said the bake sale wasn't right because the Berkeley Republicans were making a joke of race issues... but how else should they make their point? The bake sale illustrates it in a way that's very simple and easy to understand. I think liberals just like to cry they're offended when they don't have any intelligent counterarguments.
einLesenderArbeiter 5 months ago 16
@einLesenderArbeiter
That's one of their favorite tactics being used against them! They love to make fun of issues they disapprove of!
NoUniEst 5 months ago
@einLesenderArbeiter There are many better ways to get the point across. They can focus on impact of affirmative action middle class families, rather than just complaining that white people pay more. To communicate we must build trust with the listener, yet the bake sale only offends the very people they are trying to convince. Those who think it was clever probably already agreed with them. If they aren't changing minds then what is the point of this exercise? It is shouting in the dark.
mscottleonard 5 months ago
@mscottleonard ok, and what are some of these better ways? ways that are feasible, make the point clear, and don't cost a lot of money to put together? maybe their bake sale wasn't a very clever idea and maybe it won't convince a lot of people, but at least it's bringing attention to the issue and getting people thinking and talking about it.
einLesenderArbeiter 5 months ago
@einLesenderArbeiter
I generally take "liberal" positions, but don't support affirmative action. Political stereotypes waste everyone's time.
spectatortots 5 months ago
@spectatortots oh oh oh i'm very sorry to have offended your sensitive liberal heart :D
and youtube debates are also an arguable waste of time, but they sure are fun. see what i'm getting at??
einLesenderArbeiter 5 months ago
@einLesenderArbeiter I'm a liberal and I'm not offended at all due to the fact it's not raciest. It's illustrating a point.
startreking2007 5 months ago
Protean makes good points, and certainly the bake sale is a clever idea.
However, both are ignoring the fact that to many Affirmative Action is longer about opportunities as it is about "promoting diversity".
Also, what is this "new bill" they are protesting? Isn't that just the old Affirmative Action law?
Vebinz 5 months ago
@Vebinz Who was given the mandate of promoting diversity? Racial Diversity? Gender Diversity? Do you realize how elitist that comment even sounds? To what other areas should diversity balances be prescribed to? Why stop at education? Where does this line of reasoning stop?
SkinyPost 5 months ago
@SkinyPost
Hey I didn't say I supported it, I'm just saying that that's how many of its supporters now see it.
Vebinz 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Does everyone who wants a cookie only get 1 of each?
whoo689 5 months ago
This dude displays common sense. Which is now against the law.
moontooth 5 months ago
This guy is insightful.
enantiomer2000 5 months ago
As a female and person of color I'm offended that proponents of Affirmative Action think I need their help to get into a good college. No one should be going to a school they aren't qualified to attend, if you didn't do as well in academics and didn't participate in activities (like student council for example) you don't get in! Sucks for you, you didn't work as hard as someone else did and the one who did work should get in. Basing anything on race is racist.
OriettaRose 5 months ago
Affirmative action is literally racist legislation.
Devilock79 5 months ago
Benefits based on race is bullshit... all benefits should be based on income, and or physical or mental impairment...
Elenkhos 5 months ago
@Elenkhos Or we could just go on the merit system instead of constantly fucking interfering.
thegoodlocust 5 months ago
Thank you for this!
GoDiglet 5 months ago
As usual Proteanview, you are right. I wish more people were like you, earth would be better off.
brian4480 5 months ago
As an Asian American, $1.75 for a cup cake is too high. I'm going to drive over to the Dim Sum takeout place and get me a cha siu bao for $1.
dooshmasta 5 months ago
@proteanview
You live in America, and you're startled by racism and affirmative action?
I have some bad news for you...
vikingWindmill 5 months ago
@vikingWindmill he doesn't seem startled to me. just commenting on the clever way these people are making their point and agreeing. also, america hardly has a monopoly on racism.
khemeticone 5 months ago
@khemeticone
I know a lot of Americans that said that their friends thought they were racist because they didn't vote for Obama. That's a major race problem if you ask me.
But both McCain and Obama are evil btw. They're both influenced by the same bank masters.
vikingWindmill 5 months ago
Affirmative Action assumes certain races to be intrinsically incapable, and/or less able than others. This is about as racist as anything, and is an insult to humanity.
animalliberation0961 5 months ago
@animalliberation0961 No it doesnt. If that's what it did, yes it would be insulting and patronizing, but that's not what it is.
Decimaster321 5 months ago
But... But you're black! loll... Die Hrad.
MustacheVerra 5 months ago
Thank you for posting this video.
mizzlehotch777 5 months ago 11
I did not know I was poor and disadvantaged when I was a kid and my father died, leaving my skilless mother to forage for menial jobs and try to keep me from getting into trouble. I did not feel priviledged or get advantages just because my skin was white. I shines shoes, sold newspapers and ran errands to help my mom make it. I felt good contributing. By luck, I lived in New York City and was able to go to free City College. That was a socialist kind of equal affirmative action to all like me.
salsalot 5 months ago
It's this berkely mindset that has helped to put the country in the situation it's in.
It's time we 'graduated with an advanced degree' from this reverse racism.
robran53 5 months ago
Protean, thanks for breaking thru the sterotypes.
skeletonmom 5 months ago
Protean, thanks for breaking thru the sterotypes.
skeletonmom 5 months ago
The Ecological Error/Fallacy. It's were dumb or malicious people propagate assumptions on individuals based upon attributes of a set that individual can be placed in. For example a guy buys a Mercedes because he thinks they're well built and reliable, when he lifts the bonnet up he finds he forgot to check if it had an engine. To be brutal most people fall for this kind of fallacy because they're stupid but the people who generate them generally do for some malicious purpose.
KnockoffNigeI 5 months ago
I know this has nothing to do with anything, but has anyone ever told you that you look alot like the character Ulysees from the videogame "Fallout: New Vegas"?
ShadowPa1adin 5 months ago
They already have programs to help people based on privilege, affirmative action is applied on top of that.
I disagree with your argument because you're relying on the anecdote of a well-off black student and ignoring the studies and statistics showing that blacks are institutionally disadvantaged in our society compared to other race groups, which is what affirmative action seeks to address. It's not perfect and may be 'unfair' in some cases, but overall it's more fair than doing nothing.
wongdor 5 months ago
discrimination is discrimination is discrimination
gratex 5 months ago
i agree that there are individual cases where affirmative action is so laughably unfair, like the case you are talking about. But at the same time, i think the position of MOST blacks in america is a fair justification for affirmative action. The idea isn't to make life better for one individual or another, but to re-engineer society so that blacks as a whole are in a better position.
Ninjaculation 5 months ago
There's something very condescending behind the idea of affirmiative action. It's sort of like a statement towards blacks saying that we won't be equal until blacks conform to the standards set by white people in reference to college numbers. It's ultimately a policy that doesn't respect race and is really an easily abused system built from white guilt.
thejobloshow 5 months ago
@thejobloshow It is condescending. It's saying that, even if you have a 3.8 at a good school, we need to give you "special" consideration. That is racist against blacks as if just being black means you need help, never mind the fact that your parents might be educated and well off and you well educated.
igotsissues 5 months ago
Nobody is economically disavantaged (at least in the united states) when it comes to accessing a high quality education. IF you have access to high speed internet connection, you have access to education at MIT , Stanford , IIT, and Oxford. You can have access to videos that teach you high school math, and computer programming. There are a plethora of tutorial centers online ,free books, and you can learn a foreign language. education is cheap if you no where to look
Pentazoid111 5 months ago
@Pentazoid111 i agree but in fairness not everyone has access to the internet,(of course there are libraries)
RayDandy 5 months ago
@Pentazoid111 WHAT? do you know how much kids dont have computers at home? and their parents cant afford any internets? the poor in America may not be as bad off as in other countries, But they live a much different life than the middle class.
JUDALATION 5 months ago
@JUDALATION People don't have commputers in their home not because they can't afford but because they don't buy them. Statistics shows that most of the poor can afford a flat screen tv, television and a car. If the poorest americans can afford these three things, then they can afford to buy a computer and internet connection. My laptop cost me $200 and my internet connection is 13 dollars per month. Thats Cheap.
Pentazoid111 5 months ago
@Pentazoid111 You are an idiot... You clearly dont know anything about the TRUE poverty in America.. People without Jobs, with kids, with debt, like over half of Americans, cannot afford these luxories. Go to any public library and see how many are using the internets. You need to get out of the conservative myth that the poor are well off in America. Families cant eat. People are going homeless. They are selling their wedding rings Where I live Unemployment is Around 30% They cant pay car insur
JUDALATION 5 months ago 2
That isn't true. You are clearly the uninformed one: According to the census bureau of reports: "Forty-three percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio." cont;d
Pentazoid111 5 months ago