The Great Awakening by Jim Wallis

[WhereDidItAllGo7]

Marxism = Poverty, Control, Slavery

The exact thing that Wallis is trying to overcome is exactly what he is creating by his allegiance to Marxist ideology.

[DragonAquarius]

Dear mizzouilibertarian:

According to your own statement, you earn approximately $7,500 @ week. I have some questions for you.

Do you pay taxes?  If so, you are contributing part of your wealth.

Do you employ people? How much are THEY paid? How are their lives better by working for you? Are any of them receiving food stamps?

Are you bettering the lives of orphans? Have you adopted children?

Do you participate in creating homeless shelters?

Are you generous? Are you hospitable?

[mizzoulibertarian]

what if I'm a small business owner and make about 350000 a year. and I don't want my wealth redistributed?

[vaw32]

Is Jim Wallis A fraud?

[BlackbirdSpecOps]

When can make this very simple for Lochee to understand. Every human life is valuable and should be protected whether it's just started today, three months in or any other time. It's has nothing to do with helping others, a bed or any other corny thing you come up with.

[MrConsitution]

In general I have lived international over 15 plus years in four developing countries. I am confused by Rev. Wallis statement concerning Social Justice. I am not interested purchasing his Book. I am already giving 20% of my income through my local church which has done a good job at helping local and missions abroad. The last thing I need is someone telling me I need to take what is not mine and give it to the poor. That is a crime unless you are a US Rep. are a dictator from another country.

[hopkins4545]

Social Justice is the essence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and anyone with even a smattering of biblical scholarship will recognize this--Christ was the transcendent rebel who levelled all the world's mechanics: rich and poor, acceptable and unacceptable. Christ was the Adonai, the anointed one, the Son of God. I think we would do well to listen to what He has to say on these issues.

[Lochee1000]

HOPKINS: If people really listened to Jesus, they will find that he despised the rich and urged his followers not to lay up for themselves treasures on the Earth. In addition, he made them aware that they must relieve the oppressed, plead the cause of the poor and needy, remember the fatherless and widows in their affliction, freely give, etc.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Jesus despised the rich? Please point me to chapter and verse. Are you rich?

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH: 2ND point, if we can't even take away peoples' guns, what would make us think we can go into the privacy of their bedrooms? 3RD point, Jesus had much contempt for the rich. He said "Woe unto them that are rich, for you have received your consolation." Luke 6:24 Also, "How hardly shall them who trust in riches enter the kingdom of heave." Mark 10:24

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Finally, some truth. Your comment about *bedrooms* reveals exactly how you see this issue. You don’t see the real life present. You don’t see the human being. You don’t see the horrible procedure that takes that life. You simply see a *bedroom* issue. This view is a relic. It's hollow. Again, it all comes down to *what is the unborn?* Everything else sidesteps this question. You've already said, "none of us favor abortion."  Ask yourself - why?

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH: Yes I do see the plight of the unborn & it is horrific. But I also believe that God has judgement against ALL sinful immoral & lusts of the flesh. There are acts/deeds that proceed conception. Just because "sentence against an evil work" isn't executed right away, doesn't mean that God is winking. God WILL bring every work into judgement with every secret thing (abortions). I do believe we should be busy pointing people to the Cross so they can grasp the sinful life they live.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 As for the verses you posted on the rich. Those hardly mean God has *contempt* for the rich. How in the world did you get that from those two verses? Mark is talking about “trusting” in riches, putting riches above God. As for Luke, the same applies. Speaking to the Pharisees he is talking about taking *consolation* in riches, desiring nothing but material wealth, seeking nothing other than what riches can provide.

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH, I really think you've misintepreted my points. God has NO repsect of persons. He loves all people whether rich or poor. But he condemns people who selfishly lay up treasures without thinking about others less fortunate and their plights.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Your view on *riches* and what God feels about those who are rich fall very far outside mainstream New Testament scholarship.  The view I responded with is orthodox Christianity. The majority of New Testament literature and scholarship would reject your claim about Jesus despising the rich. I’ll bet even Jim Wallis rejects it.

[Lochee1000]

KMITCH, you can reject the WORD of God all you want. God's Word will judge. My point about the rich was that those who "trust in their uncertain riches" who are merely interested in enjoying riches, pleasures of this life, without any regard for others, have their reward. But this is radically different from individuals, who though rich in this world's goods, share from time to time, a portion of their wealth and go about to relieve others around them in need-- doing good as Jesus required.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Not rejecting The Word here. That said, it looks like you’ve changed your tune. Now you say, “trusting in uncertain riches”. This is much different than saying Jesus *despises* the rich. You must qualify it - which you didn't.  Anyway, I agree with your post now. Glad that’s settled.

[kwmitch1]

The level of poverty in our world his heartbreaking. We have been told the poor will always be with us. My question to Jim Wallis on changing what is “acceptable” is: Is abortion on demand acceptable?  Would Jesus find it acceptable?

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH: None of us favor abortion. It is an ugly, evil scourge brought on due to the fall of man. However, we CAN'T take away peoples' choices. Jesus is a "whosoever will" God. He wills for his creation to serve him willingly. He does NOT force people into servitude, but gives them a choice to serve him.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Nonsense. You say we “CAN’T” take away peoples choices? Yes we can. We do it all the time. We say you can’t murder. We say you can't steal. For goodness sake, we say you can’t even hurt animals. That Jesus wills for His creation to serve Him willingly is totally irrelevant. The only thing reflected in your response is the lack of value you place on the unborn. If you were to be consistent - you shouldn’t reject the notion of killing infants on the grounds of "choice".

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH, Though vehemently against abortion as you are, yet WE as humans CAN NOT make other peoples' decisions for them. GOD Almighty who is just & holy DOES NOT remove peoples' free moral agency. He does NOT want FORCE, but choice. "Choose ye this day who you will serve." That's what God Almighty says. Instead of being abusive & judgmental, a better approach is to provide vigorous outreach to girls & females who are in DV, rape, incest, situations...seek to restore & heal. Some can be saved.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Why can’t you just come out and say it? That the unborn are not worth protecting. It all boils down to *what is the unborn*. Again, all this talk about choice is totally irrelevant. Are you against *the choice* to kill infants and toddlers? If so, why? As for outreach, the prolife community is a perfect example of it. They operate twice as many crisis pregnancy centers as there are abortion clinics. That’s outreach my friend.

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH, With all the outreach going on then, prolife activisms, etc we have to leave the rest to God. By the way, I am against all forms of abortion, but I recognize, I can't make choices for other human beings.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 No you can’t make choices for other human beings; but laws (that you support I assume) exist to protect innocent human beings from being killed. Just not *all* innocent human beings. Our society disqualifies the unborn for such protection. Imagine if John Brown had said, “we can’t make choices for other human beings”.

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH. the difference is, that the "unborn" in this case, is created INSIDE of an autonomous, free moral human being. Because an autonomous adult is the parent in conception and birth of the unborn, (it is their own seed involved), that person usually makes birth decisions. If the "unborn" was created of its own, in a tube, without any parental material and aid, then the unborn has specified rights.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000  This is great! Now you’re talking my language! No more of this *yes, the life is valuable bs*. You simply place more importance on the innocent human beings *location* than its inherent right-to-life. I just wish you would have come out and said this earlier, instead of all the fluff about "choices". It would have saved time.

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH, you were the one who bounced around after I urged us to respect peoples' choices--even if it means those who senselessly have abortions....and I still mean that.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 I’ve demonstrated that *choices* isn’t an argument. It’s not about *choices* - because you are against a mother’s *choice* to kill her infant or toddler. After we peeled back that layer, you resorted to the belief that a woman can do with *her body* what she pleases – the unborn life be damned. This view is no different than Planned Parenthood’s or NARAL’s. So let’s not pretend you have this nuanced compassionate view of the unborn. Just asking for some honesty, that’s all.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 By the way, you still haven’t answered my questions. I’ll repeat them: What about an abortion one hour before birth? What if just the head is inside the mother? Because you place so much importance on *location*, let's have some answers.

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH: I don't place as much importance on location as I do the ability of parents to receive support and counseling. I would hope no one would wait until literally moments before a birth.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 You would *hope* not, but the question is: Would you be in favor of a law that prevents a mother from killing her unborn at that point? An hour before birth? If not, your position would be as follows: I think that would be murder, but I am not for making a law against that type of murder – it should be legal to murder a child in that manner. This is untenable.

[Lochee1000]

KWMITCH: Although I stand opposed to abortion under any condition, I think it's a situation in which God himself should and can intervene. We make the mistake in thinking we can 'force' people to our ways of believing. God can make people re-think choices better than we as other humans can. He is God Almighty. On the other hand, where we can play a 'positive' role without forcing our wills upon people to change we should.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Now, the question must then be asked, why does the location of the life determine whether or not that life ought to be protected? What about one hour before birth? What if just the head is inside the mother? Why do you use such an arbitrary metric?

[Lochee1000]

BLACK & KMITCH, RE: My comment. The reason it was approached from that angle is because the extreme rightwinger folks think it's ok for our military to go and gun down people in other countries, but seem to do a "red-faced Mr.Mc Goo" when an abortion occurs for whatever reason. If we as Americans hate murders of any kind, we can't go along with every wage of war situation.

[kwmitch1]

@Lochee1000 Here we go - the diversion to war. You have no idea about what my thoughts on war are. No idea. We are discussing abortion – let’s not get off subject. Besides, being on the left and being against abortion are not mutally exclusive. By the way, what is 'BLACK & KMITCH'?

[chainsrgone]

watch?v=8MgyeRqzLB4

[CommunistProgressive]

Was Stalin a good christian? Was Mao a good christian? These preached social justice and killed 120 million people...120,000,000 people. It did not even take them the time it took Hitler to kill 12 million people including 6 million Jews.

Christianity is not about social justice. It is about redemption. It is a way to redeem yourself from evil. Everyone sins not everyone asks forgiveness. The problem in this country is the lack of religious morals in our schools and government.

[Goohuman]

@CommunistProgressive I can't believe I'm agreeing with someone called "CommunistProgressive".

[hopkins4545]

@CommunistProgressive Because they preached social justice you actually think those bloodthirsty monsters believed in it? Is that a joke?

Christianity is about redemption through a rejection of the things of this world. Meaning: the cruelty of the Kings, who will tremble in fear before the Lord's judgment when He looks at the way they have treated His children: the poor, the bereft, those who mourn. Not sure how you can get around these things as a Christian.

[CommunistProgressive]

@hopkins4545 You are an idiot. Christianity is about redeeming your soul. Rich or poor it does not matter. The way you treat his children not the poor the bereft and the ones who mourn ALL of his children. It is harder for the rich to get into heaven sure but there is this thing called being a genuinely good person have or have not. So you may want to think about it.

Nope they didn't believe in Christianity because they were God there country was the utopia of heaven.

[killergames187]

Marxists asshole and Obama's bitch!!!

[MarmaladeINFP]

It's ironic those who claim that social justice isn't based in the Bible. When you look at most beliefs of Christians, very little of any of it is based in the Bible. Every Christian is forced to pick and choose or else submit to an authority who will pick and choose for them.

[MrConsitution]

In general Mr. Wallis statements sound good but it has no merit in biblical terms

It is not the church or a government to bring/force social justice. Individuals should have the choice to choose whether are not they want to help the poor.

Proverbs 17:23 A wicked man take a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.

[hopkins4545]

@MrConsitution :What you have done to the least of brothers, so you have done to me." That's a commandment. Not a suggestion.

[conservativesunited]

Polluting the words of Jesus with marxist "social justice" philosophy. Makes sense that he is Obama's spiritual advisor.

[CrystalIrismusic]

politics and the gov. need to stay the hell out of our lives and let people give from their heart not as damn tax. this guy is a quack! hitler liked social justice too! down with more government control

[SelfAccountable]

Wallis embraces the apostate 'Emergent Church 'and the communist doctrine of social justice. There can be no awakening - spiritual or political - amongst the socialist ilk. He has polluted the minds of many - including Derek Webb, Andrew Peterson, and Bebo Norman.

[drauglintuor]

@SelfAccountable I feel sorry for people like you; so lost and full of fear and hate. Socialist ilk? lol... I hope some day in the distant future you remember you spoke these words. Peace.

[VenusFriend]

So how to do it?

Is it not the resource's that sets the limits of what we can do?

How about a resource based society?

Take a look at this News Report:

watch?v=KNZDCafccyo

[lmacorp]

Wallis was a Commie in the 60s and hes a Commie now.

[djm9063]

Jim Wallis is the D E V I L!!!

[sfpkent]

djm9063, you shame yourself.

[protestants]

What would these social justice people do if there had been no Martin Luther King Jr? Although I respect King, I am tired of people always referring to King as if he were a god. Is America so poor spiritually that they have only one person as a point of reference?

[LifterWill]

I wonder if you could supply instances where Dr. King has been referred to as though he was a "god"? America isn't poor at all, though I would agree that inward focused, exclusionary religiousity is desperately poor and lacking in such Christlike virtue as social justice. You are surrounded on all sides by people who are "social justice people"; people who see themselves as the change they are looking for. Dr. King was only one.

I am curious ... where do you see yourself in that picture?

[BiltongBaz]

Very sad to see evil Mandelas` picture there. Amazing that people are so stupid like sheep they think he was of any good to SA

Instead the ANC are totally destroying South Africa with their main objective of a complete take over like Zimbabwe

Many white people in SA are facing genocide & the ANC is desperately fighting for a New World Order regardless of the how many lives it will cost

Evil Mandela is still considerd a hero -idiots

[skagsrules]

Jim rocks my socks off!

[xxbubblegum00]

Thankyou jim, from the people of ireland.

[aspiringactor]

Thank you for your voice of leadership.