people need to realize not all ministries are meant to scam people. I grew up being a christian, I'm not now, but i can tell you there are some ministries that are legitimately trying to help people. Hell, my church was always in debt, they had no money coming in, and a ton going out to help build schools and churches in rough parts of jamaica and Mexico. unfortunately, those legitimate ministries are far into the minority.
@jbfarley , a very good point. There are scammers everywhere...in all kinds of different careers. Unfortunately, there are some scammers in ministry. And there are many others who work diligently, and quietly, saving lives making our world a better place to live, and they never get any media attention. I really don't think that legitimate ministries are necessarily in the minority.
if people have addiction then go to a doctor and they will put you in the right direction, never go to people like these idiots, they dont have your best interests at heart whereas your doctor and an addiction worker does.
@upallhours9 Great! It must be called "People who can't tolerate thieving, lazy, uneducated Crack-head Losers." Now, you can start another "Program" dealing with your kind. Why don't you go away and try to save the world without bothering me again Shanaynay.
@roguemtber "niggas always pocket the money i these types of programs"
I suggest that you learn not only how to craft a simple sentence, but that you should also get past your ignorant notions of racism. It is an outmoded mindset, that does not belong in the 21st century.
Think of all the other crooks who are getting away with this fraud...at least these three losers were identified. Like cockroaches, they will run under the refrigerator while the light is on but will come crawling back out soon when it's dark again. Whenever I hear the term Reverend, minister, priest, etc....I instantly think liar.
Judge Judy is such a joke! She wouldn't even have a show if she wasn't an outgoingly raging cunt! She's a TV judge, I wouldn't trust her judgement on anything!
Careful with the comments about calling them crooks and con artists. First of all, they are in the PLAINTIFF'S box. Although I even take a dim view of their overall qualifications, and of a lot of churches and ministers in general, they are still PEOPLE of a church HELPING PEOPLE on their own accord. Before any other qualification is met, the first qualification is that they give a damn! That doesn't take a degree. And life experience should count for something.
@CSILogic You're a moron. Would you let someone with no medical training give you surgery? Someone with no legal training give you legal advice? Let someone who isn't a CPA perform an audit? The first qualification is COMPETENCY, especially when they are taking compensation for said work. Especially if said compensated work is for people at risk and vulnerable people and of concern to the public's interest.
@Lido209vaj- Stop grandstanding. Read my post carefully and I said I take a dim view of THEIR qualifications! Treating substance abuse requires a level of training. Yet it still may not automatically end addiction. Homelessness requires just shelter, a hot shower, hot meals, and maybe some job leads. Effort, not a degree is needed, and serves the public interest by cleaning up these people and getting them off the street. FYI, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs...NO CREDENTIALS - college dropouts!
@CSILogic LOL the 'Bill Gates' argument is one of the most overuse arguments ever. Yes those two are college drop outs who made billions. Whats your point? If we take person without a college degree and statistically analyzed them based on income, I think we will find that 99% of them make below poverty level wages. Pointing out the 1% outliers doesn't make a compelling case. Deeerrrrppppp.
@Lido209vaj So... you base your argument on a statistic you pulled out of thin air and then finish with "derrrrp"? You have a poor way of voicing your opinions.
@CSILogic And as to the care of homeless people, you're displaying an extreme level of stupidity. You don't need to have a degree to serve homeless people food at a shelter. THATS NOT WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING! They are 'directors' of a program with GED and no HS Diploma. How can I trust a 'NO HS DIPLOMA' to manage the operation cost of a program of $500,000? To understand the psychological illness and medical issues of homeless people? And refer them to qualified experts?
@CSILogic It's clear that these people are trying to avoid responsibility and cheat the system with their "program", while hiding behind the "moral" guise of religion. They can avoid property taxes while doing this, get a tax free housing allowance while writing off any mortgage interest, all while probably giving out shitty advice that is buy bull based, claiming that Jebus saved them and can save their clients too. Disgusting!!
And people in Churches get carried away with "ministries" and being called "minister". Although the one woman is a supposedly officially ordained and actually has a degree, a lot of ministers are in fact not formally trained in theology. They learn to talk the talk well enough to become "anointed". And the terms "ministry and minister" are used improperly. Just because you are the musical director, you do not have the right to be called "Minister of Music"?
They are not honest. A lot of people are honest, but these people were not, which shows that not everyone is perfect. I'm a Christian and I'm not perfect. Some are false prophets
@atomicnortherner Wow, that top comment hurt. Don't speak about religion like that. I'm not religious so I'm not going to defend it but you shouldn't talk about it like that, it's stupid to generalize 'religion' altogether. Most ministries aren't any of the things you described.
@gaiaon123 You say you are not going to defend religion but your reply defends it three times! ALL religion has a prejudice against something or an ignorance of something.
@Bigrobkerr it's not the jury, they are spectators. juries always sit to the side of the courtroom. furthermore, very rarely are there juries in civil cases (person suing another person). and in civil cases, a jury is made up of 6.
I liked that answer. 'For free when they first come in'. That means they bait and switch... and they're not even qualified to run a drug/alcohol treatment center.
@skaha77 That is something that Judge Judy will only understand when she gets to where she is going if she doesn't change her ways. In the other hand those individuals aren't spiritually qualified to do what their doing either. The fact that abrasive judge judy made a mockery out of them is more than evidence.
@bellereve1 Judge Judy isn't making a mockery of them. They are trying to get federal aid saying the are running a business that must be overseen by licensed professionals and the other two people in the business are not licensed nor educated to be licensed. She's trying to explain that to them and they do not want to hear it.
@DDRBoi02 Ya but.. If you know the bible, and know it well.. say you have studied it through 12-15 times.. and you are spirit filled; you can counsel any body and do it a lot better than the so called educated experts. The catch is, an aetheist will not respond to it..God says you are a winner, and he doesn't make junk
@skaha77 You are so deluded if you think your precious bible can provide all the answers. And you add a qualifier that it doesn't work for atheists. What a cop-out!!Wake up and smell reality. Conmen and charlatans have claimed divine inspiration for centuries. The modern world demands more than deluded fantasies from people who claim to help others,
@skaha77 Sorry I don't follow the Christian religion. But if what you are saying is the case, I've watched Sesame Street for years and have studied Cookie Monster to no end, does that mean I can counsel people who have an addiction to cookies? And of course an atheist wouldn't respond to it just like I wouldn't expect you to respond to meditating on the God and Goddess on a solstice celebration.
@skaha77 And btw....you never refuted my statement you only tried to change the subject. So either you agree I'm right or you don't understand the nature of the case because it had nothing to do with WHAT they were trying to do it had to do with HOW they were going about it.....and they went about it the wrong way.
@skaha77 But neither one of them ran a drug and alcohol treatment center, and would not be qualified to do so. Giving a message about Christ is a completely different matter. God doesn't miraculously give us college education in our head or bestow on us a skill without working for it. You want to run such a program, you must get training, and to not do so while claiming to be "saving souls" is a cop out that not even God would accept.
Having a formal education doesn't necessarily mean anything. A person gains education from experience in the real world. In my opinion there's nothing more dangerous than an under educated genius or an over educated idiot.
@troydeancarpenter That's not always true. Sure, college education is becoming more about business than it is education, but if someone wants to run a drug and alcohol treatment center they damned well better have proper training. If they don't they are open to lawsuits by people and the IRS, not to mention unable to adequately help the people coming to them. These three were looking for money, and using "ministry" as the bait. That's not Godly, it's devilish and immoral.
@skaha77 Exactly how do you mean that? Jesus doesn't automatically heal someone of a disease or affliction simply because they've become a Christian. He expects us to do for ourselves what we can. In order for someone to overcome an addiction to alcohol or drugs they need to go to therapy and rehab. That's always been the case. Accepting Jesus doesn't remove that responsibility nor does it remove the affliction.
@TheTubePortal you are right. People almost buy university degrees now, here in Australia, If you can afford to pay up front uni fees you can get in with a much lower H.S.C.( S.A.T in America??) score.
@redredredtoo Well, it's completely legal to buy a degree and it can be used. The problem however is when the person using it misrepresents themselves as being educated or trained (lying). There are people who went to college but couldn't complete for one reason or another (such as illness, financial difficulty, etc...) in which case a purchased degree is morally proper. But someone seeking to take advantage or who had no education it is deceptive and potentially dangerous.
@TheTubePortal While I agree that a formal education is necessary to run a business, I think that the best drug/alcohol counselors are generally people who are themselves in recovery! I have worked in rehab facilities with counselors who have NO college education, but have many years of recovery under their belts, and are MORE qualified to talk about addiction than someone with NO life experience and who's information comes strictly from a book!
@holefan69 I agree with you that people with practical experience are able to empathize and better understand what a person goes through. But my main point is that being a counselor requires training - even for a former addict. They need to learn how to utilize words, tools and colleagues in helping the addict. Simply suffering from addiction doesn't qualify one to just up and "treat" someone. They need formal training to know how to use their practical experience effectively.
@TheTubePortal I agree to a point! I am in recovery, AND got a formal education and became CADC certified to work in Detox and Rehab facilities! I frequently, however, work with counselors who have no formal training, but are VERY good at counseling people recovering from addiction..They ARE required to attend a certain amount of training so that can effectively make referrals, etc..But there is no degree required in many programs! Maybe there should be!! LOL!
@holefan69 But that's what I'm saying, some formal training is necessary. While it's true that some people are good listeners and able to converse easily with another person, treatment programs have certain rules in place. Some of them are required to put in positions people who have formal training only, and some even forbid former addicts. A person cannot simply come off the street and say "I'm a former addict, let me be a counselor because I know what it's like to suffer."
@niezabijaj Well, there are good and honest Christian ministries, but they are very, very, very few and far between. Most ministers are crooks because they either preach things they don't actually believe, or use "entertainment" to draw in crowds to their mega-churches in order to make money from them.
@TheTubePortal ooh boo hoo,..that's almost every church. Tell me a non profit church around the world. A church that doesn't accept offering or money? they all make money, but don't pay taxes lol pffss
@simw7 Boo hoo what? I agree with you. Not sure why my modest disagreement translates into the need for your type of response. It's true that most churches are anxious to collect money through manipulating the people by tithing and offerings and whatnot, but there are non-denominational churches who, for example, charge nothing for their services or charge only the printing cost and postage for literature making no profit at all. They are rare and hard to find, but they do exist.
The plaintiffs are shysters plain and simple and speaking from my own experience as a recovering drug addict/alcoholic who has 9 years clean and sober it makes me furious to see people like them take advantage of people seeking recovery. They should rot in hell.
@tbone2872 I have a loved one who, like you,celebrated 13 years clean from crack addiction. As a medical transcriber, a job that's far more than typing, I've learned a lot doing this job for almost 20 years and you are so right. Once someone goes somewhere for help they become a patient and it is medically dangerous for someone like these 3 plaintiffs, who know NOTHING about the real dangers of withdrawal and relapse to hold a life in their hands.
@tbone2872 Good for you on staying clean, man. I know a lot of people look down on drugs and alcohol abuse, but I can see when someone gets up from being knocked down. Good for you. God Bless.
@tbone2872 If YOU are in recovery, with 9 years of sobriety, and you have a Higher Power in your life, you may want to speak with your sponsor about YOUR attitude! Wishing someone else to "Rot in hell!" IS NOT sober thinking, or sober behavior!! I agree that these people are unqualified on an educational level, but that does NOT mean that they are scamming anyone, or that they are NOT legitimately trying to help people to achieve recovery! You need to check yourself!
@holefan69 Oh you're right I guess by your definition sober behavior means taking other people's inventory. I love people like you who think becoming sober means forfeiting their right to have an opionion. These half-assed evangelists are making a feeble attempt at doing what religion has failed in and 12 step groups like AA and NA have succeeded in: getting people sober. They are scammers! That's why they can't get grants. By the way it's not "sober behavior" to be a troll either.
@tbone2872 If you actually READ what I said, I agreed that they might be unqualified on an educational level, but do not necessarily agree that they scamming anyone! Their INTENT is to help addicts with recovery! They could not get grants because no one in the group had the formal education required to run the program! What I objected to was YOUR statement that they they should "rot in hell" for what they are doing! THAT is NOT sober thinking!! And AA, NA are BOTH Spiritual,God based programs
@tbone2872 - The are only shysters if the are taking money for it. Some programs are financed/run by the Church if on grants are received. And having no one of real qualifications to run such a program is a big problem.
I have seen ppl in a church who have no formal training try to council ppl who have disorders like bipolar disorder and when they dont get better they say its because they must be evil and have demons on them! give me a break. they have no business trying to help ppl with such disorders
Most degrees don't really mean much except "i'm in debt and had a silvery-enough spoon which allowed me to take time for classes". This program, however, desperately needs a trained, experienced addiction recovery specialist. Other than that, a HS diploma, strong work ethic, and passion for education is all you need to succeed. Unfortunately, mainstream America believes otherwise.
I think it is good that a swindler just can get certificated to work with people whom are in big troubles just because he/she has a high school diploma.
@newcoyte I totally agree. They definitely are taking advantage of their mental weakness when they are addicts. They reprogram them it seems to start their lives over but with 'god' in it & chalk their weakness to their lack of believing and giving up their thoughts to a 'higher power'. It's despicable and sad.
I'm trying hard not to doubt your authenticity as a knowledgeable participant in the undertakings of AA at this point. Any, if not all literature from this group states very clearly their intentions, beliefs, and methodologies. If you are playing a 'troll' for dicrediting such a helpful organization, I personally plead with you to desist. Too many good people's lives are at stake. Feel free to do the same on any other matter. This one truly effects too many people to ever take lightly.
BTW, taking personal responsibility is not avoided in the AA program.. In fact, it is centerpiece. The very first thing that MUST be stated is that the 'addicted' must take responsibility for their actions. Maybe you have been mislead, in ways. Accountability is the very beginning of it's teachings, and people are only then lead to ways to recompense each day to themselves, if not the others involved. That is their mantra, daily, weekly, ongoing. I'd question groups that said otherwise.
Please do not misunderstand me. I do not discredit your observations as anything but they likely are.. a concerned, alert, family member that only wishes the best for their loved one. I truly wish you the best in that endeavor, as it does effect EVERYONE in a family, like it or not. I'm just stating a truth that I know, and there are likely many other ways to the same truth. My heart does go out to you for simply continuing what feels like a never ending battle. Peace.
Ah, religious intolerance. How I love it. Some athiests are just as annoying as the hardcore evangelicals... Neither can stand to see someone believing in something other than what they believe. I didn't know this was about who's "right" and who's "wrong". Let people believe what they want to believe, and keep your opinions to yourself. Is that so hard?
@Omboth Like letting people believe that it is OK to bomb abortion clinics, or Ok to bash homosexuals? Oh, you mean we should let people believe that kind of thing? Wake up fool.
This is why I refer to most "christians" as "Dr. Stupid". Zero education, thinking they're doctors of some sort. No, they're just QUACKS. And don't even get me started on those "ex-gays" - they're out for 2 things only: money and dick.
@dinomagic that's not a rehab program it's a prevention program two TOTALLY different things. Anyone can do great prevention work with or without a GED but you need a licensed counselor to help people currently struggling to overcome addiction. There are mental health issues involved.
Here's a fun fact: Churches are tax exempt. It is a very lucrative investment to start up your own church because you have assets (members) who are willing to give up a weekly tithe and give donations for you to create programs, fix up the church.....and buy yourself a brand new lamborghini with the residuals ;) Sickening huh?
Any kind of religion has no business meddling in addiction recovery. It should be criminal. I strongly feel it is not only ineffective but actively harmful. Addiction is a medical matter and needs to be addressed with science. Not myth, magic and wishful thinking. I speak from hard experience.
@manga12 Having a positive attitude is a start. Faith (different from hope) means accepting something as true with no evidence or in spite of evidence to the contrary. That is a BAD postion to hold when dealing with a REAL life crisis. AA, Alanon and other 12 step programs have a horrible track record. I speak from personal experience. Addition is a serious problem and fantasy, make believe or any other such BS should play no role.It is a waste of time.
@manga12 It does "work" for some people. You know how many? About 10%. That means 90!!!% do NOT succeed with AA. I have been clean more than six years because I finally realized and rejected the ridiculous premise of AA. If you have addiction problems, where your life is becoming unmanageable make a solid decision to take personal responsibility. Not handing over to some mysterious higher power. There are much better secular based programs.
I know of three people a psychologist I saw for awhile, my uncle, and some people at church I recognized when I was comming out of mass and an aa meeting was getting out from our church basment at the same time. its better then doing nothing.
@Psyintiphic Yes I know that's why I am so opposed to AA. Their method is a dismal failure. The success rate is about a whopping 10%. Believing in and surrendering to some made up "higher power" is only avoiding taking personal responsibility. AA pulls all kinds of semantic acrobats to shoehorn God with a capital G in to their BS and claim the opposite is true. They are divisive. They enjoy an undeserved reputation and the numbers prove it.
Well, to each their own. You obviously had some experience with AA and their methodology that has been met with your disapproval. I would not be so quick to judge them based on a family member that has been very successful with their addition of a 'higher power' and for that I am eternally grateful to their cause/methods. As for their numbers, in my case, I'm happy for a family member that fell into their 'success' percentage. I do wish you and your concerned the best.
@newcoyote I speak from experience, too. I didnt need religion or anything, but I also didnt need "science". Not everyone needs medical assistance to get clean.
@areYouSerious41 Do you know what I mean by science? I mean using a methodical approach based on evidence, reason and logic. Not faith, god or any other made up premise. It is true some can clean up simply through willpower but that is still a form of reason. Science doesn't always come in a lab coat.
@newcoyote Yes, I know the definition of science, but I was mistaken by your comment. To me, it sounded like you were implying that medical help was necessary in recovery.
By the way, what about those people at AA and NA meeting that say they got and stay clean through the help of God or their "higher power"?
@areYouSerious41 What about them? The success rate of 12 step programs is about ten percent. That is a dismal track record.I have seen more that one friend "adhering" to AA, DIE! AA is actively harmful because it distracts from more effective methods. The same way homeopathy or some other equally absurd modality distracts a victim of disease from proven medicine. Steve Jobs? AA enjoys an undeserved reputation. What about the 90% that don't make it?
@areYouSerious41 the success rate of NA or AA (or most recovery programs for that matter) is almost always never more than 5 percent. the natural remission rate for the disease of addiction is never more then 5 percent. so you have to take AAs numbers minus the natural remission rate (people who quit on their own) to get the real success rate of these programs. 5 percent minus 5 percent is.... 12 step programs don't work. those people would've quit anyway. "god" didn't help.
@steb413 No offense, but I dont believe you. I dont care where you're getting your stats from. I know plenty of people who put their faith in "God" or a higher power and have been clean for many many many years. More years than Ive been alive. You cant sit there and say that "God didnt help." If someone's so called God helped them, who are you to say it didnt? If NA didnt help a lot of people, why is it so popular?
@newcoyote Well I know a few people that are recovering addicts and they say Christianity has help them. People cope with addiction in different ways, so in your case it might have been ineffective but for some it has.
@dontcare696 Maybe you have not read all my comments. I was not referring to my own experience. I was referring to the vast balance that do NOT succeed. 90%! I have seen more than one or two DIE because they put all their focus on AA and failed. AA has been a big distraction from finding better methods. Have you heard the Mark Twain quote? "Give a man a reputation as an early raiser and he can sleep till noon." This applies very well to AA.
@newcoyote I understand your POV, but all I am saying is that for some people religion does help them recover. I'm not saying that it is a 100% success rate, but it does help some people.
@newcoyote i know people who have gone through religious programmes in the UK for drugs and alcohol rehabilitation, and God does amazing work in their lives and 10 years down the line they are still clean. so for you to say that religion has no business 'meddling' is totally unfounded. I agree that for some people it doesnt work, but for others, it works to a high success rate.
@itscharlotte007 God is a figment of imagination. Why does god get the credit for their success rather than them for doing the hard work? Further, who will get the blame should they ever fail? Sure as the sky is blue it won't be this fantastic god caracter. It never is. Personal accountability is far more important than fairy tales where the goal posts are shift so easily.The numbers show very well your last part of your last sentence is unfounded. That has been demonstrated. Sorry.
@newcoyote I don't know how old you are, but one day, you will reach a point in your life when you realize that mankind is not the center of the universe, and you will crave something bigger and more meaningful. When that time comes, please open your heart and mind to the possibility of the Lord. :)
@gladitsnotme Way to strawman me. When did I make the claim man is the center of...? Quite the contrary. We are little specks. I presently crave something "bigger and more meaningful". It is called knowledge and that knowledge is arrived at by inquiry, evidence and demonstration. NOT by absurd faith and assertions. My mind is open to evidence. Provide my with one iota this ridiculous Lord is real and I'm all ears. Please make sure you understand what evidence means first.
If its done right I think it truly is helpful, where I live in Australia drug rehabilitation that is bases in Christianity has a higher success rate than those that dont, I however appologise you had a bad experience though.
@MrJoshBorschman What makes you think I had a bad experience? I recognized the flaws and found something that worked better. I suppose seeing many friends who did nothing other than AA fail and even die could count as a bad experience but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. "You say ...Christianity has a higher success rate than those that dont." Would you care to cite and/op substantiate that claim?
@newcoyote I agree. At their level of vulnerability, it's taking advantage of addicts. Many cults begin not as small churches, but as unqualified rehabilitation centers and "wellness spas".
@newcoyote Teen Challenge has a program that has a recidivism rate of less than 15%. It is run by Bible believing Christians. Not all have degrees. Government programs that are run by the so called experets have a success rate of like 3%. The other 97% go back to drugs. The TC program works because the participants learn to trust in the Lord and HE DELIVERS THEM. JJ is great, though
@skaha77 Interesting that your figure and the one they give themselves differ. And who came up with either number? Was it an independent study? Seeing as these are teens, what qualifies as an adequate period of time without recidivism to measure success.One year? Two? A decade? Assertions "The lord" does anything is nothing more than just that. An assertion.
@skaha77 Giving up that easy? It's called discussion. If your only defence of your dubious claim is to resort to name calling, I'm not doing too bad. What you did is called an ad hominem and boy is that weak. Why did you say anything in the first place?
@skaha77 So you come to me and make a questionable assertion, I point out a flaw, your ONLY response is name calling and I'm the idiot. Right. Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the delusion and self deception wishful thinkers are capable of. I'm all too happy to discuss but you're not at all willing. My original comment has 48 likes so far and many positive replies. we'll see how you do. Try reality some time. It's a lot better than lying to yourself. Serious.
@newcoyote You lack wisdom. and nost folks on U Tube do NOT see the world from a biblical perspective. I don't care how many thumbs go either way. You are just a punk who likes to argue..
@skaha77 Whatever makes you feel better. I'm not that concerned about your position anymore. I gave you reasonable chance. You've done nothing but bark, make empty, vacuous irrelevant assertions. Very very weak. Good bye.
I can see it now. "Y'ALL NEED TO GIVE YOUR SOULS TO JAYZUZ AND ALL YO TROUBLES WILL BE HANDLES BY HIM AMEN OH LAWDY I CAN FEEL THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THIS ROOM THIS VERY MOMENT!"
Ya know I am a recovering drug addict and Judge Judy doesnt know what shes talking about. I went to 3 so called acredited rehabs and nothing worked for me until I started working a program made by NON acredited people.
Sounds like Judge Judy needs to get some REAL WORLD EDUCATION.
I'll give them the benefit of being well-intentioned, but it does take a fair amount of training, skill...and yes, education to handle the type of program they are involved in. If they were simply handing out bagged lunches, a HS diploma might serve well, but not for this service. Further, even as a Xtian myself, this is a program that should function without regard to religious belief. I've known many well intentioned, but ignorant Christians. They are in a field the're not quailified for.
Everyone hear about christians killing someone for being a witch in the UK. Just a bunch of scum really.
Nikolai508 22 hours ago
Dang Judge Judy BURNED THEM! :P
xxmisschewyxxable 1 day ago
people need to realize not all ministries are meant to scam people. I grew up being a christian, I'm not now, but i can tell you there are some ministries that are legitimately trying to help people. Hell, my church was always in debt, they had no money coming in, and a ton going out to help build schools and churches in rough parts of jamaica and Mexico. unfortunately, those legitimate ministries are far into the minority.
jbfarley 4 days ago
@jbfarley , a very good point. There are scammers everywhere...in all kinds of different careers. Unfortunately, there are some scammers in ministry. And there are many others who work diligently, and quietly, saving lives making our world a better place to live, and they never get any media attention. I really don't think that legitimate ministries are necessarily in the minority.
chrisman737 3 days ago
A degree in Communication is a good degree but the plaintiff is a fucking idiot! What a waste of space!
ItsOver9000and10 4 days ago
lol at the director! He stands there taking it as the Judge scolds him!
ItsOver9000and10 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i bet obama nigger gave them a grant and they all ate fried chicken with the money.
IamJacksColon4 5 days ago
HOW MANY? More then 10 and less than 12 your honour - JUST GIVE ME A NUMBER!
dilwich123 6 days ago
1 word comes to mind.... SCAMMER!!!!
garfield779310 1 week ago
@nextblain
Lol
TheSmaych 1 week ago
if people have addiction then go to a doctor and they will put you in the right direction, never go to people like these idiots, they dont have your best interests at heart whereas your doctor and an addiction worker does.
idontsignin 2 weeks ago
unqualified evengalist HmmMMmMmmmmm
nextblain 2 weeks ago
“Less then 24.” So, what do you mean? One?
remino 2 weeks ago
"we evangelize, we go out into the city to bring people in at no charge... when they first come in."
that's all i had to hear before knowing they are a scam.
takatakatang 2 weeks ago 3
"Drugs or alcohol", them forgetting about alcohol is categorized as a drug, one of the worst ones actually.
madman2u 2 weeks ago
These "people" just love to start "Programs" ... makes me sick!
GhostmanDBP 3 weeks ago
@GhostmanDBP I've started a program just for people like you. XD
upallhours9 2 weeks ago
@upallhours9 Great! It must be called "People who can't tolerate thieving, lazy, uneducated Crack-head Losers." Now, you can start another "Program" dealing with your kind. Why don't you go away and try to save the world without bothering me again Shanaynay.
GhostmanDBP 2 weeks ago
@upallhours9 I wasn't being sarcastic. I agree with you. I was just joking around.
upallhours9 2 weeks ago
niggas always pocket the money i these types of programs
roguemtber 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@roguemtber "niggas always pocket the money i these types of programs"
I suggest that you learn not only how to craft a simple sentence, but that you should also get past your ignorant notions of racism. It is an outmoded mindset, that does not belong in the 21st century.
Checker222 3 weeks ago
whats the name of this episode?
iu6h6h6h6h 1 month ago
Niggers selling god. Is there a bigger scam in the universe?
699backstab 1 month ago
@699backstab LOL
GhostmanDBP 3 weeks ago
Think of all the other crooks who are getting away with this fraud...at least these three losers were identified. Like cockroaches, they will run under the refrigerator while the light is on but will come crawling back out soon when it's dark again. Whenever I hear the term Reverend, minister, priest, etc....I instantly think liar.
solusdiver 1 month ago
@solusdiver Totally agree!!
richwfd2002 4 weeks ago
@solusdiver So right! They always say "Praise Jesus" and then fuck the till clean to wine and dine their Bitches.
GhostmanDBP 3 weeks ago
Judge Judy is such a joke! She wouldn't even have a show if she wasn't an outgoingly raging cunt! She's a TV judge, I wouldn't trust her judgement on anything!
RHallman321 1 month ago
A black man without a high school diploma? That's rare....
MrCerebellum2 1 month ago
@MrCerebellum2 yeah...in the states..
vanityandlove 1 month ago
Careful with the comments about calling them crooks and con artists. First of all, they are in the PLAINTIFF'S box. Although I even take a dim view of their overall qualifications, and of a lot of churches and ministers in general, they are still PEOPLE of a church HELPING PEOPLE on their own accord. Before any other qualification is met, the first qualification is that they give a damn! That doesn't take a degree. And life experience should count for something.
CSILogic 1 month ago
@CSILogic You're a moron. Would you let someone with no medical training give you surgery? Someone with no legal training give you legal advice? Let someone who isn't a CPA perform an audit? The first qualification is COMPETENCY, especially when they are taking compensation for said work. Especially if said compensated work is for people at risk and vulnerable people and of concern to the public's interest.
Lido209vaj 1 month ago
@Lido209vaj- Stop grandstanding. Read my post carefully and I said I take a dim view of THEIR qualifications! Treating substance abuse requires a level of training. Yet it still may not automatically end addiction. Homelessness requires just shelter, a hot shower, hot meals, and maybe some job leads. Effort, not a degree is needed, and serves the public interest by cleaning up these people and getting them off the street. FYI, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs...NO CREDENTIALS - college dropouts!
CSILogic 1 month ago
@CSILogic LOL the 'Bill Gates' argument is one of the most overuse arguments ever. Yes those two are college drop outs who made billions. Whats your point? If we take person without a college degree and statistically analyzed them based on income, I think we will find that 99% of them make below poverty level wages. Pointing out the 1% outliers doesn't make a compelling case. Deeerrrrppppp.
Lido209vaj 1 month ago
@Lido209vaj So... you base your argument on a statistic you pulled out of thin air and then finish with "derrrrp"? You have a poor way of voicing your opinions.
WatchOutForTheVOOM 3 weeks ago
@CSILogic And as to the care of homeless people, you're displaying an extreme level of stupidity. You don't need to have a degree to serve homeless people food at a shelter. THATS NOT WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING! They are 'directors' of a program with GED and no HS Diploma. How can I trust a 'NO HS DIPLOMA' to manage the operation cost of a program of $500,000? To understand the psychological illness and medical issues of homeless people? And refer them to qualified experts?
Lido209vaj 1 month ago 3
@CSILogic It's clear that these people are trying to avoid responsibility and cheat the system with their "program", while hiding behind the "moral" guise of religion. They can avoid property taxes while doing this, get a tax free housing allowance while writing off any mortgage interest, all while probably giving out shitty advice that is buy bull based, claiming that Jebus saved them and can save their clients too. Disgusting!!
richwfd2002 4 weeks ago
And people in Churches get carried away with "ministries" and being called "minister". Although the one woman is a supposedly officially ordained and actually has a degree, a lot of ministers are in fact not formally trained in theology. They learn to talk the talk well enough to become "anointed". And the terms "ministry and minister" are used improperly. Just because you are the musical director, you do not have the right to be called "Minister of Music"?
CSILogic 1 month ago
They are not honest. A lot of people are honest, but these people were not, which shows that not everyone is perfect. I'm a Christian and I'm not perfect. Some are false prophets
nellie2581 1 month ago
Maybe they were crooks
nellie2581 1 month ago
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10DollarsInQuarters 1 month ago
this woman is an accredited con artist
gtlip 1 month ago 2
Religion, the perfect disguise for Crime, Ignorance, Fraud, Terrorism, and Hate.
atomicnortherner 1 month ago 75
@atomicnortherner Bigotry, Racism, Molestation, Silencing, Suicide, Sexism, Torture, Murder, Rape, Deception, Pandering, Avarice, Extortion, Overpopulation, Vanity, Self- righteousness. It's the greatest, most viral disease ever generated by the mind of man.
AzazelZaphorOmega 2 weeks ago
That is exactly why I love jesus,I love god BUT I hate religion.
reptile734 3 days ago
@atomicnortherner Wow, that top comment hurt. Don't speak about religion like that. I'm not religious so I'm not going to defend it but you shouldn't talk about it like that, it's stupid to generalize 'religion' altogether. Most ministries aren't any of the things you described.
gaiaon123 1 day ago
@gaiaon123 You say you are not going to defend religion but your reply defends it three times! ALL religion has a prejudice against something or an ignorance of something.
atomicnortherner 1 day ago
you have to get up pretty early in the morning to fool Judge Judy
sarabower1 1 month ago
how the heck did i get here from undertaker taps out? :s
mr83 1 month ago
This is so typical I wouldn't trust any bible beater.Most are all in it for profit not to help people!!!
MrJoesmokey 1 month ago
I have seen this before. No high school diploma. But he is in charge of folks that are seeking to better their lives. What a pathetic excuse..
MarsTalionis 1 month ago
why does the jury in the back never decide the case and why are there more than 12?
Bigrobkerr 1 month ago
@Bigrobkerr it's not the jury, they are spectators. juries always sit to the side of the courtroom. furthermore, very rarely are there juries in civil cases (person suing another person). and in civil cases, a jury is made up of 6.
psychomantiskiller 1 month ago
Where is the lawyers? LMAO
lickitup455 1 month ago
Does anyone know where I can find the full case!! This one is obviously missing the beginning.
mazteryoda 2 months ago
LOL.. judge judy told them. hahhaa
Ckvalways 2 months ago
I liked that answer. 'For free when they first come in'. That means they bait and switch... and they're not even qualified to run a drug/alcohol treatment center.
Kyjask 2 months ago
"In the process of receiving" a high school diploma? At age 30something? Um that ship already sailed buddy, a long time ago.
bg11215 2 months ago
Ouch!!!!
imaflirt247 2 months ago
On the Plantiff's G.E.D. exam, final question:
There are less than20 men in a room, but more than 10. If one leaves, how many remain?
"Uh.... 19."
Tenshiiryu 2 months ago
@Tenshiiryu - nope, the answer is less than 19 but more than 10.
gombis666 2 months ago
The Prophet Paul and John the Baptist had one thing in common, NEITHER OF THEM WENT TO UNIVERSITY
skaha77 2 months ago
@skaha77 That is something that Judge Judy will only understand when she gets to where she is going if she doesn't change her ways. In the other hand those individuals aren't spiritually qualified to do what their doing either. The fact that abrasive judge judy made a mockery out of them is more than evidence.
bellereve1 2 months ago
@bellereve1 Judge Judy isn't making a mockery of them. They are trying to get federal aid saying the are running a business that must be overseen by licensed professionals and the other two people in the business are not licensed nor educated to be licensed. She's trying to explain that to them and they do not want to hear it.
DDRBoi02 2 months ago
@DDRBoi02 Ya but.. If you know the bible, and know it well.. say you have studied it through 12-15 times.. and you are spirit filled; you can counsel any body and do it a lot better than the so called educated experts. The catch is, an aetheist will not respond to it..God says you are a winner, and he doesn't make junk
skaha77 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@skaha77 You are so deluded if you think your precious bible can provide all the answers. And you add a qualifier that it doesn't work for atheists. What a cop-out!!Wake up and smell reality. Conmen and charlatans have claimed divine inspiration for centuries. The modern world demands more than deluded fantasies from people who claim to help others,
MySammypoo 2 months ago 3
@skaha77 Sorry I don't follow the Christian religion. But if what you are saying is the case, I've watched Sesame Street for years and have studied Cookie Monster to no end, does that mean I can counsel people who have an addiction to cookies? And of course an atheist wouldn't respond to it just like I wouldn't expect you to respond to meditating on the God and Goddess on a solstice celebration.
DDRBoi02 2 months ago
@skaha77 And btw....you never refuted my statement you only tried to change the subject. So either you agree I'm right or you don't understand the nature of the case because it had nothing to do with WHAT they were trying to do it had to do with HOW they were going about it.....and they went about it the wrong way.
DDRBoi02 2 months ago
@skaha77 But neither one of them ran a drug and alcohol treatment center, and would not be qualified to do so. Giving a message about Christ is a completely different matter. God doesn't miraculously give us college education in our head or bestow on us a skill without working for it. You want to run such a program, you must get training, and to not do so while claiming to be "saving souls" is a cop out that not even God would accept.
TheTubePortal 2 months ago 2
Having a formal education doesn't necessarily mean anything. A person gains education from experience in the real world. In my opinion there's nothing more dangerous than an under educated genius or an over educated idiot.
troydeancarpenter 2 months ago
@troydeancarpenter That's not always true. Sure, college education is becoming more about business than it is education, but if someone wants to run a drug and alcohol treatment center they damned well better have proper training. If they don't they are open to lawsuits by people and the IRS, not to mention unable to adequately help the people coming to them. These three were looking for money, and using "ministry" as the bait. That's not Godly, it's devilish and immoral.
TheTubePortal 2 months ago 34
@TheTubePortal professionals with degrees have failed to cure the drug epidemic. Jesus can deliver the addict.
skaha77 2 months ago
@skaha77 Exactly how do you mean that? Jesus doesn't automatically heal someone of a disease or affliction simply because they've become a Christian. He expects us to do for ourselves what we can. In order for someone to overcome an addiction to alcohol or drugs they need to go to therapy and rehab. That's always been the case. Accepting Jesus doesn't remove that responsibility nor does it remove the affliction.
TheTubePortal 2 months ago
@TheTubePortal you are right. People almost buy university degrees now, here in Australia, If you can afford to pay up front uni fees you can get in with a much lower H.S.C.( S.A.T in America??) score.
redredredtoo 2 months ago
@redredredtoo Well, it's completely legal to buy a degree and it can be used. The problem however is when the person using it misrepresents themselves as being educated or trained (lying). There are people who went to college but couldn't complete for one reason or another (such as illness, financial difficulty, etc...) in which case a purchased degree is morally proper. But someone seeking to take advantage or who had no education it is deceptive and potentially dangerous.
TheTubePortal 2 months ago
@TheTubePortal While I agree that a formal education is necessary to run a business, I think that the best drug/alcohol counselors are generally people who are themselves in recovery! I have worked in rehab facilities with counselors who have NO college education, but have many years of recovery under their belts, and are MORE qualified to talk about addiction than someone with NO life experience and who's information comes strictly from a book!
holefan69 1 month ago
@holefan69 I agree with you that people with practical experience are able to empathize and better understand what a person goes through. But my main point is that being a counselor requires training - even for a former addict. They need to learn how to utilize words, tools and colleagues in helping the addict. Simply suffering from addiction doesn't qualify one to just up and "treat" someone. They need formal training to know how to use their practical experience effectively.
TheTubePortal 1 month ago
@TheTubePortal I agree to a point! I am in recovery, AND got a formal education and became CADC certified to work in Detox and Rehab facilities! I frequently, however, work with counselors who have no formal training, but are VERY good at counseling people recovering from addiction..They ARE required to attend a certain amount of training so that can effectively make referrals, etc..But there is no degree required in many programs! Maybe there should be!! LOL!
holefan69 1 month ago
@holefan69 But that's what I'm saying, some formal training is necessary. While it's true that some people are good listeners and able to converse easily with another person, treatment programs have certain rules in place. Some of them are required to put in positions people who have formal training only, and some even forbid former addicts. A person cannot simply come off the street and say "I'm a former addict, let me be a counselor because I know what it's like to suffer."
TheTubePortal 1 month ago
@TheTubePortal Well said - The road to hell is paved with good intentions
tryandlisten 1 month ago
@TheTubePortal "These three were looking for money, and using "ministry" as the bait." Isn't this how all ministry works?? :P
niezabijaj 1 month ago
@niezabijaj Well, there are good and honest Christian ministries, but they are very, very, very few and far between. Most ministers are crooks because they either preach things they don't actually believe, or use "entertainment" to draw in crowds to their mega-churches in order to make money from them.
TheTubePortal 1 month ago 7
finally another person who isn't trapped in their own little bubble world of fantasy and illusion.
reptile734 3 days ago
@TheTubePortal ooh boo hoo,..that's almost every church. Tell me a non profit church around the world. A church that doesn't accept offering or money? they all make money, but don't pay taxes lol pffss
simw7 1 month ago
@simw7 Boo hoo what? I agree with you. Not sure why my modest disagreement translates into the need for your type of response. It's true that most churches are anxious to collect money through manipulating the people by tithing and offerings and whatnot, but there are non-denominational churches who, for example, charge nothing for their services or charge only the printing cost and postage for literature making no profit at all. They are rare and hard to find, but they do exist.
TheTubePortal 1 month ago
Science has failed to solve the drug addiction problem; unless you call Methadone addiction a solution
skaha77 2 months ago
suck me off
HalfEatenDimSim 2 months ago
ooohhhh Religion :-( oh America ;-( sooo sad
nouminoumiable 2 months ago
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nouminoumiable 2 months ago
The plaintiffs are shysters plain and simple and speaking from my own experience as a recovering drug addict/alcoholic who has 9 years clean and sober it makes me furious to see people like them take advantage of people seeking recovery. They should rot in hell.
tbone2872 2 months ago 51
@tbone2872 I have a loved one who, like you,celebrated 13 years clean from crack addiction. As a medical transcriber, a job that's far more than typing, I've learned a lot doing this job for almost 20 years and you are so right. Once someone goes somewhere for help they become a patient and it is medically dangerous for someone like these 3 plaintiffs, who know NOTHING about the real dangers of withdrawal and relapse to hold a life in their hands.
horseangels 2 months ago
@tbone2872 Amen to that and god bless you for speaking your heart.
mwhite112393 2 months ago
@tbone2872 Good for you on staying clean, man. I know a lot of people look down on drugs and alcohol abuse, but I can see when someone gets up from being knocked down. Good for you. God Bless.
jeste4187 2 months ago
@tbone2872 If YOU are in recovery, with 9 years of sobriety, and you have a Higher Power in your life, you may want to speak with your sponsor about YOUR attitude! Wishing someone else to "Rot in hell!" IS NOT sober thinking, or sober behavior!! I agree that these people are unqualified on an educational level, but that does NOT mean that they are scamming anyone, or that they are NOT legitimately trying to help people to achieve recovery! You need to check yourself!
holefan69 1 month ago
@holefan69 Perhaps instead of taking THEIR inventory, you should be checking your own!
holefan69 1 month ago
@holefan69 Oh you're right I guess by your definition sober behavior means taking other people's inventory. I love people like you who think becoming sober means forfeiting their right to have an opionion. These half-assed evangelists are making a feeble attempt at doing what religion has failed in and 12 step groups like AA and NA have succeeded in: getting people sober. They are scammers! That's why they can't get grants. By the way it's not "sober behavior" to be a troll either.
tbone2872 1 month ago
@tbone2872 If you actually READ what I said, I agreed that they might be unqualified on an educational level, but do not necessarily agree that they scamming anyone! Their INTENT is to help addicts with recovery! They could not get grants because no one in the group had the formal education required to run the program! What I objected to was YOUR statement that they they should "rot in hell" for what they are doing! THAT is NOT sober thinking!! And AA, NA are BOTH Spiritual,God based programs
holefan69 1 month ago
@tbone2872 I agree
chim80 1 month ago
@tbone2872 - The are only shysters if the are taking money for it. Some programs are financed/run by the Church if on grants are received. And having no one of real qualifications to run such a program is a big problem.
CSILogic 1 month ago
Sad Sad Sad!
oscardaone 2 months ago
con people
march1836 2 months ago
I have seen ppl in a church who have no formal training try to council ppl who have disorders like bipolar disorder and when they dont get better they say its because they must be evil and have demons on them! give me a break. they have no business trying to help ppl with such disorders
peachtree05 2 months ago
Plaintiffs are evil
HomestarRunner20X6 2 months ago
Most degrees don't really mean much except "i'm in debt and had a silvery-enough spoon which allowed me to take time for classes". This program, however, desperately needs a trained, experienced addiction recovery specialist. Other than that, a HS diploma, strong work ethic, and passion for education is all you need to succeed. Unfortunately, mainstream America believes otherwise.
gladitsnotme 2 months ago
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MelodiaSeira 2 months ago
I think it is good that a swindler just can get certificated to work with people whom are in big troubles just because he/she has a high school diploma.
globe255 3 months ago
..they should have ATODA training
MrCogicson1 3 months ago
@newcoyte I totally agree. They definitely are taking advantage of their mental weakness when they are addicts. They reprogram them it seems to start their lives over but with 'god' in it & chalk their weakness to their lack of believing and giving up their thoughts to a 'higher power'. It's despicable and sad.
ckybambamgirl 3 months ago
Bible thumpers are vile people..they feel soooo superior...yet are sooo lost..and they dont get it!
MPL029 3 months ago
@MPL029 right, they condemn so many people yet are so eager to play the poor persecuted christian card and calling them bigots.
Somai82 3 months ago
NEON GENESIS EVANGELION!
DarkTwistedFantasy99 3 months ago
gotta love judge judy
lambchopxoxo 3 months ago
I'm trying hard not to doubt your authenticity as a knowledgeable participant in the undertakings of AA at this point. Any, if not all literature from this group states very clearly their intentions, beliefs, and methodologies. If you are playing a 'troll' for dicrediting such a helpful organization, I personally plead with you to desist. Too many good people's lives are at stake. Feel free to do the same on any other matter. This one truly effects too many people to ever take lightly.
Psyintiphic 3 months ago
BTW, taking personal responsibility is not avoided in the AA program.. In fact, it is centerpiece. The very first thing that MUST be stated is that the 'addicted' must take responsibility for their actions. Maybe you have been mislead, in ways. Accountability is the very beginning of it's teachings, and people are only then lead to ways to recompense each day to themselves, if not the others involved. That is their mantra, daily, weekly, ongoing. I'd question groups that said otherwise.
Psyintiphic 3 months ago
Please do not misunderstand me. I do not discredit your observations as anything but they likely are.. a concerned, alert, family member that only wishes the best for their loved one. I truly wish you the best in that endeavor, as it does effect EVERYONE in a family, like it or not. I'm just stating a truth that I know, and there are likely many other ways to the same truth. My heart does go out to you for simply continuing what feels like a never ending battle. Peace.
Psyintiphic 3 months ago
Your "ministry". :O)
brama1969 3 months ago
Ah, religious intolerance. How I love it. Some athiests are just as annoying as the hardcore evangelicals... Neither can stand to see someone believing in something other than what they believe. I didn't know this was about who's "right" and who's "wrong". Let people believe what they want to believe, and keep your opinions to yourself. Is that so hard?
Omboth 3 months ago
@Omboth Like letting people believe that it is OK to bomb abortion clinics, or Ok to bash homosexuals? Oh, you mean we should let people believe that kind of thing? Wake up fool.
Pigroota 3 months ago
This is why I refer to most "christians" as "Dr. Stupid". Zero education, thinking they're doctors of some sort. No, they're just QUACKS. And don't even get me started on those "ex-gays" - they're out for 2 things only: money and dick.
ChannelBelongs2Scott 3 months ago
these people are totally unqualified to be running this type of program-GEDs and absolutely no education in substance abuse just doesn't cut it
pugdogy 3 months ago 30
long island tc dot com
dinomagic 3 months ago
Most successful drug rehab in USA long island teen challenge
dinomagic 3 months ago 2
@dinomagic that's not a rehab program it's a prevention program two TOTALLY different things. Anyone can do great prevention work with or without a GED but you need a licensed counselor to help people currently struggling to overcome addiction. There are mental health issues involved.
MrStarstruck404 3 months ago
OH OH! And assets who will WORK FOR FREE! (charity)
mackles 3 months ago
Here's a fun fact: Churches are tax exempt. It is a very lucrative investment to start up your own church because you have assets (members) who are willing to give up a weekly tithe and give donations for you to create programs, fix up the church.....and buy yourself a brand new lamborghini with the residuals ;) Sickening huh?
mackles 3 months ago
Any kind of religion has no business meddling in addiction recovery. It should be criminal. I strongly feel it is not only ineffective but actively harmful. Addiction is a medical matter and needs to be addressed with science. Not myth, magic and wishful thinking. I speak from hard experience.
newcoyote 3 months ago 48
having faith and hope in somthing is a start, no matter what the religion or philosophy, its one of the fundamental sayings of alanon
manga12 3 months ago
@manga12 Having a positive attitude is a start. Faith (different from hope) means accepting something as true with no evidence or in spite of evidence to the contrary. That is a BAD postion to hold when dealing with a REAL life crisis. AA, Alanon and other 12 step programs have a horrible track record. I speak from personal experience. Addition is a serious problem and fantasy, make believe or any other such BS should play no role.It is a waste of time.
newcoyote 3 months ago
Well works for some people, and better luck with your issues, I have my own with games.
manga12 3 months ago
@manga12 It does "work" for some people. You know how many? About 10%. That means 90!!!% do NOT succeed with AA. I have been clean more than six years because I finally realized and rejected the ridiculous premise of AA. If you have addiction problems, where your life is becoming unmanageable make a solid decision to take personal responsibility. Not handing over to some mysterious higher power. There are much better secular based programs.
newcoyote 3 months ago
I know of three people a psychologist I saw for awhile, my uncle, and some people at church I recognized when I was comming out of mass and an aa meeting was getting out from our church basment at the same time. its better then doing nothing.
manga12 3 months ago
@newcoyote
Totally agree, so don't take this wrong, but... Even AA suggests an addict seek a 'higher power' or belief system.
Psyintiphic 3 months ago
@Psyintiphic Yes I know that's why I am so opposed to AA. Their method is a dismal failure. The success rate is about a whopping 10%. Believing in and surrendering to some made up "higher power" is only avoiding taking personal responsibility. AA pulls all kinds of semantic acrobats to shoehorn God with a capital G in to their BS and claim the opposite is true. They are divisive. They enjoy an undeserved reputation and the numbers prove it.
newcoyote 3 months ago
@newcoyote
Well, to each their own. You obviously had some experience with AA and their methodology that has been met with your disapproval. I would not be so quick to judge them based on a family member that has been very successful with their addition of a 'higher power' and for that I am eternally grateful to their cause/methods. As for their numbers, in my case, I'm happy for a family member that fell into their 'success' percentage. I do wish you and your concerned the best.
Psyintiphic 3 months ago
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Psyintiphic 3 months ago
@newcoyote I speak from experience, too. I didnt need religion or anything, but I also didnt need "science". Not everyone needs medical assistance to get clean.
areYouSerious41 3 months ago
@areYouSerious41 Do you know what I mean by science? I mean using a methodical approach based on evidence, reason and logic. Not faith, god or any other made up premise. It is true some can clean up simply through willpower but that is still a form of reason. Science doesn't always come in a lab coat.
newcoyote 3 months ago
@newcoyote Yes, I know the definition of science, but I was mistaken by your comment. To me, it sounded like you were implying that medical help was necessary in recovery.
By the way, what about those people at AA and NA meeting that say they got and stay clean through the help of God or their "higher power"?
areYouSerious41 3 months ago
@areYouSerious41 What about them? The success rate of 12 step programs is about ten percent. That is a dismal track record.I have seen more that one friend "adhering" to AA, DIE! AA is actively harmful because it distracts from more effective methods. The same way homeopathy or some other equally absurd modality distracts a victim of disease from proven medicine. Steve Jobs? AA enjoys an undeserved reputation. What about the 90% that don't make it?
newcoyote 3 months ago
@newcoyote So what is an effective method?
areYouSerious41 3 months ago
@areYouSerious41 the success rate of NA or AA (or most recovery programs for that matter) is almost always never more than 5 percent. the natural remission rate for the disease of addiction is never more then 5 percent. so you have to take AAs numbers minus the natural remission rate (people who quit on their own) to get the real success rate of these programs. 5 percent minus 5 percent is.... 12 step programs don't work. those people would've quit anyway. "god" didn't help.
steb413 3 months ago
@steb413 No offense, but I dont believe you. I dont care where you're getting your stats from. I know plenty of people who put their faith in "God" or a higher power and have been clean for many many many years. More years than Ive been alive. You cant sit there and say that "God didnt help." If someone's so called God helped them, who are you to say it didnt? If NA didnt help a lot of people, why is it so popular?
areYouSerious41 3 months ago
@newcoyote Well I know a few people that are recovering addicts and they say Christianity has help them. People cope with addiction in different ways, so in your case it might have been ineffective but for some it has.
dontcare696 3 months ago
@dontcare696 Maybe you have not read all my comments. I was not referring to my own experience. I was referring to the vast balance that do NOT succeed. 90%! I have seen more than one or two DIE because they put all their focus on AA and failed. AA has been a big distraction from finding better methods. Have you heard the Mark Twain quote? "Give a man a reputation as an early raiser and he can sleep till noon." This applies very well to AA.
newcoyote 3 months ago
@newcoyote I understand your POV, but all I am saying is that for some people religion does help them recover. I'm not saying that it is a 100% success rate, but it does help some people.
dontcare696 3 months ago
@newcoyote i know people who have gone through religious programmes in the UK for drugs and alcohol rehabilitation, and God does amazing work in their lives and 10 years down the line they are still clean. so for you to say that religion has no business 'meddling' is totally unfounded. I agree that for some people it doesnt work, but for others, it works to a high success rate.
itscharlotte007 3 months ago
@itscharlotte007 God is a figment of imagination. Why does god get the credit for their success rather than them for doing the hard work? Further, who will get the blame should they ever fail? Sure as the sky is blue it won't be this fantastic god caracter. It never is. Personal accountability is far more important than fairy tales where the goal posts are shift so easily.The numbers show very well your last part of your last sentence is unfounded. That has been demonstrated. Sorry.
newcoyote 3 months ago
@newcoyote I don't know how old you are, but one day, you will reach a point in your life when you realize that mankind is not the center of the universe, and you will crave something bigger and more meaningful. When that time comes, please open your heart and mind to the possibility of the Lord. :)
gladitsnotme 2 months ago
@gladitsnotme Way to strawman me. When did I make the claim man is the center of...? Quite the contrary. We are little specks. I presently crave something "bigger and more meaningful". It is called knowledge and that knowledge is arrived at by inquiry, evidence and demonstration. NOT by absurd faith and assertions. My mind is open to evidence. Provide my with one iota this ridiculous Lord is real and I'm all ears. Please make sure you understand what evidence means first.
newcoyote 2 months ago
@newcoyote Well said. Shine on...:O))
strumstrummer 2 months ago
@newcoyote
If its done right I think it truly is helpful, where I live in Australia drug rehabilitation that is bases in Christianity has a higher success rate than those that dont, I however appologise you had a bad experience though.
MrJoshBorschman 2 months ago
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@MrJoshBorschman What makes you think I had a bad experience? I recognized the flaws and found something that worked better. I suppose seeing many friends who did nothing other than AA fail and even die could count as a bad experience but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. "You say ...Christianity has a higher success rate than those that dont." Would you care to cite and/op substantiate that claim?
newcoyote 2 months ago
@newcoyote I agree. At their level of vulnerability, it's taking advantage of addicts. Many cults begin not as small churches, but as unqualified rehabilitation centers and "wellness spas".
travisanderson77 2 months ago
@newcoyote Teen Challenge has a program that has a recidivism rate of less than 15%. It is run by Bible believing Christians. Not all have degrees. Government programs that are run by the so called experets have a success rate of like 3%. The other 97% go back to drugs. The TC program works because the participants learn to trust in the Lord and HE DELIVERS THEM. JJ is great, though
skaha77 2 months ago
@skaha77 Interesting that your figure and the one they give themselves differ. And who came up with either number? Was it an independent study? Seeing as these are teens, what qualifies as an adequate period of time without recidivism to measure success.One year? Two? A decade? Assertions "The lord" does anything is nothing more than just that. An assertion.
newcoyote 2 months ago
@newcoyote Ya, ok bub. You know everything. Not worth my time to argue with a know it all. You show all the symptoms of that
skaha77 2 months ago
@skaha77 Giving up that easy? It's called discussion. If your only defence of your dubious claim is to resort to name calling, I'm not doing too bad. What you did is called an ad hominem and boy is that weak. Why did you say anything in the first place?
newcoyote 2 months ago
@newcoyote Not giving up at all.. I learned not to contend with idiots a long time ago. It's what you call a no win
skaha77 2 months ago
@skaha77 So you come to me and make a questionable assertion, I point out a flaw, your ONLY response is name calling and I'm the idiot. Right. Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the delusion and self deception wishful thinkers are capable of. I'm all too happy to discuss but you're not at all willing. My original comment has 48 likes so far and many positive replies. we'll see how you do. Try reality some time. It's a lot better than lying to yourself. Serious.
newcoyote 2 months ago
@newcoyote You lack wisdom. and nost folks on U Tube do NOT see the world from a biblical perspective. I don't care how many thumbs go either way. You are just a punk who likes to argue..
skaha77 2 months ago
@skaha77 Whatever makes you feel better. I'm not that concerned about your position anymore. I gave you reasonable chance. You've done nothing but bark, make empty, vacuous irrelevant assertions. Very very weak. Good bye.
newcoyote 2 months ago
I can see it now. "Y'ALL NEED TO GIVE YOUR SOULS TO JAYZUZ AND ALL YO TROUBLES WILL BE HANDLES BY HIM AMEN OH LAWDY I CAN FEEL THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THIS ROOM THIS VERY MOMENT!"
ikilledAeris 3 months ago
Ya know I am a recovering drug addict and Judge Judy doesnt know what shes talking about. I went to 3 so called acredited rehabs and nothing worked for me until I started working a program made by NON acredited people.
Sounds like Judge Judy needs to get some REAL WORLD EDUCATION.
marcusdolby1 3 months ago
hahaha less than 20 but more than 10 lol
dominothegreat1 3 months ago
I'll give them the benefit of being well-intentioned, but it does take a fair amount of training, skill...and yes, education to handle the type of program they are involved in. If they were simply handing out bagged lunches, a HS diploma might serve well, but not for this service. Further, even as a Xtian myself, this is a program that should function without regard to religious belief. I've known many well intentioned, but ignorant Christians. They are in a field the're not quailified for.
kooldavewarren 4 months ago 2
@8o8o8oDAVIDo8o8o8 believe in nothing? I think you'll find it nihilism.
Visda58 4 months ago