I was in the Lancaster convention center today and it is a nice building. I am glad they kept those walls from the Watt and Shand building along with 1-2 other historical buildings on that block. But it sucks you cant get above the 4th floor unless you are a guest of the Marriott hotel.
I grew up in Lancaster city within walking distance of downtown and have shopped in the old Watt & Shand store. While the outside was and still is quite magnificent, the inside was nothing special. This was not like John Wanamaker or Strawbridge & Clothier in Philly, we're not talking Fulton Opera house here. So they gutted it, no great loss. This building has been unused since 1995. At least someone has found a way to utilize the property and still preserve the old façade.
You are apparently missing the point. They used the building and the preserving of that building as an excuse to extract $100+ million of taxpayer money for their own benefit.
There were many proposed uses of the building that were never considered because Dale High and the Steinman Newspapers would never get taxpayer money!
What do you feel the negative outcomes of this project will be once it is finished? The way you and Artie are both talking, then every city should just stop spending money and developing because if they do, a few tax payers might get upset... Spending money and making progressive decisions is what makes American Cities great!
Yeah, I guess trying to develop a city is a bad idea... I suppose creating hundreds of jobs for a city isn't good either. I suppose leaving this city with so many "crime" problems the way it is would be a better idea.. get a clue, these updates will ulitmately bring more money and commerce to Lancaster, which will in turn make the standard of living better. but no you're probably right, lets leave this great city stagnant and unchanging...
drewish: The way this project is structured, it will cost taxpayers a LOT more than it could ever bring to Lancaster. Out of a $176 million project, only $11 million in "equity" is private money; the rest is either taxpayer dollars, or guaranteed by taxpayers. The "private" hotel is being built and will be owned and guaranteed by the City of Lancaster. The convention center is expected to lose more money than current taxes can pay. Tax hikes are unavoidable. We the people are being screwed.
Answer me this Arie. Why, exactly, would the decision makers in Lancaster City want to cost it's people money? last I checked, it was the city councils job to make people want to live in Lancaster, not move away... look forward to hearing your thought on this...
Look - if you took $100 million and gave away gift certificates "Red Rose Bucks" you would create more business who would try to capture those bucks. This project is like having a deal on a car that you can't afford and you know that the first time it needs a repair you are going to take a dive financially. It would be BETTER to get out of that car deal BEFORE crashing and burning.
So, by your rationale, then building the hotel and convention center is okay, but once it's finished being built the city will lose jobs and money... The hundreds of new housekeepers, engineers, front desk agents, restaurant workers, and anyother job that needs filled won't matter because they'll just cost money? Perhaps I'm missing something Ron, but I don't see how the hotel won't bring in jobs and revenue.
Taxpayers are paying $200 million to build it and will spend million and millions every year to underwrite it. And that's if it goes as project cheerleaders predicate.
This project is a dog from the get go and does not have enough revenue to pay for it's losses. As taxpayer's are forced to come up with more money - it will hurt the county as the room rate makes people leave lancaster county a day early and not spend as much because they are paying more and more of a bed tax.
Great Video. I guess seeing will be believing. I remember a few years back when I lived in Lancaster and a friend from Brooklyn NY can to visit. I'll quote her "I cant wait to go back to New York where I feel safe to walk on the street. On the same note I lived in Detroit city limits and nothing ever happen to me there. But little old Lancaster, I got mugged on Penn Square. I wish the city of Lancaster the best of luck, they are going to need it.
It will also be interesting to see if crime and its related expenses to the city lower. None of this potential is a given by any means and will only bear out with statistical data in a few years. Hopefully this is a risk, and it is a risk, that pays off.
I would also look for increased profits for the farmer's market venders.
I think the first indication that the project is a success is when/if property values rise in the vicinity and if new business startups follow the convention center lead. More developments and business along with increased property values can greatly increase tax revenues.
Actually, you are correct when you say that experts are OFTEN proven wrong. Those "experts" who were hired to tell people what they want to hear! The kind of experts that were hired by the convention center authority in order to justify the project. INDEPENDENT experts say it won't work.
Truth be told, the only historical significance in the Watt and Shand building is the facade. There were no gilded interiors there. The end product will revitalize the downtown area.
The Pennsylvania Historical Commission disagrees with you. They, among other things, chided the entire project - and that was when they were keeping the building!
Like everything in this project, supporters have placed themselves above anyone and everyone that disagrees with them. All experts who have studied and said the project won't work are disregarded.
I was in the Lancaster convention center today and it is a nice building. I am glad they kept those walls from the Watt and Shand building along with 1-2 other historical buildings on that block. But it sucks you cant get above the 4th floor unless you are a guest of the Marriott hotel.
MrWill1985 3 days ago
I grew up in Lancaster city within walking distance of downtown and have shopped in the old Watt & Shand store. While the outside was and still is quite magnificent, the inside was nothing special. This was not like John Wanamaker or Strawbridge & Clothier in Philly, we're not talking Fulton Opera house here. So they gutted it, no great loss. This building has been unused since 1995. At least someone has found a way to utilize the property and still preserve the old façade.
flauzus 3 years ago
You are apparently missing the point. They used the building and the preserving of that building as an excuse to extract $100+ million of taxpayer money for their own benefit.
There were many proposed uses of the building that were never considered because Dale High and the Steinman Newspapers would never get taxpayer money!
ronharperjr 3 years ago
Ron,
What do you feel the negative outcomes of this project will be once it is finished? The way you and Artie are both talking, then every city should just stop spending money and developing because if they do, a few tax payers might get upset... Spending money and making progressive decisions is what makes American Cities great!
drewish927 3 years ago
Yeah, I guess trying to develop a city is a bad idea... I suppose creating hundreds of jobs for a city isn't good either. I suppose leaving this city with so many "crime" problems the way it is would be a better idea.. get a clue, these updates will ulitmately bring more money and commerce to Lancaster, which will in turn make the standard of living better. but no you're probably right, lets leave this great city stagnant and unchanging...
drewish927 3 years ago
drewish: The way this project is structured, it will cost taxpayers a LOT more than it could ever bring to Lancaster. Out of a $176 million project, only $11 million in "equity" is private money; the rest is either taxpayer dollars, or guaranteed by taxpayers. The "private" hotel is being built and will be owned and guaranteed by the City of Lancaster. The convention center is expected to lose more money than current taxes can pay. Tax hikes are unavoidable. We the people are being screwed.
artieseelancasterpa 3 years ago
Answer me this Arie. Why, exactly, would the decision makers in Lancaster City want to cost it's people money? last I checked, it was the city councils job to make people want to live in Lancaster, not move away... look forward to hearing your thought on this...
drewish927 3 years ago
That's a good question because their is no reasonable answer. Why have they traded their responsibility to enrich a few at taxpayer expense?
rh
ronharperjr 3 years ago
Look - if you took $100 million and gave away gift certificates "Red Rose Bucks" you would create more business who would try to capture those bucks. This project is like having a deal on a car that you can't afford and you know that the first time it needs a repair you are going to take a dive financially. It would be BETTER to get out of that car deal BEFORE crashing and burning.
rh
ronharperjr 3 years ago
So, by your rationale, then building the hotel and convention center is okay, but once it's finished being built the city will lose jobs and money... The hundreds of new housekeepers, engineers, front desk agents, restaurant workers, and anyother job that needs filled won't matter because they'll just cost money? Perhaps I'm missing something Ron, but I don't see how the hotel won't bring in jobs and revenue.
drewish927 3 years ago
Taxpayers are paying $200 million to build it and will spend million and millions every year to underwrite it. And that's if it goes as project cheerleaders predicate.
This project is a dog from the get go and does not have enough revenue to pay for it's losses. As taxpayer's are forced to come up with more money - it will hurt the county as the room rate makes people leave lancaster county a day early and not spend as much because they are paying more and more of a bed tax.
ronharperjr 3 years ago
Great Video. I guess seeing will be believing. I remember a few years back when I lived in Lancaster and a friend from Brooklyn NY can to visit. I'll quote her "I cant wait to go back to New York where I feel safe to walk on the street. On the same note I lived in Detroit city limits and nothing ever happen to me there. But little old Lancaster, I got mugged on Penn Square. I wish the city of Lancaster the best of luck, they are going to need it.
gretchenlr 4 years ago
cont,
It will also be interesting to see if crime and its related expenses to the city lower. None of this potential is a given by any means and will only bear out with statistical data in a few years. Hopefully this is a risk, and it is a risk, that pays off.
I would also look for increased profits for the farmer's market venders.
whippet22 4 years ago
I think the first indication that the project is a success is when/if property values rise in the vicinity and if new business startups follow the convention center lead. More developments and business along with increased property values can greatly increase tax revenues.
whippet22 4 years ago
Time will tell and experts are OFTEN proven wrong. I respect historic preservation but am less thilled with "histerical societies"
whippet22 4 years ago
Actually, you are correct when you say that experts are OFTEN proven wrong. Those "experts" who were hired to tell people what they want to hear! The kind of experts that were hired by the convention center authority in order to justify the project. INDEPENDENT experts say it won't work.
ronharperjr 4 years ago
Truth be told, the only historical significance in the Watt and Shand building is the facade. There were no gilded interiors there. The end product will revitalize the downtown area.
whippet22 4 years ago
The Pennsylvania Historical Commission disagrees with you. They, among other things, chided the entire project - and that was when they were keeping the building!
Like everything in this project, supporters have placed themselves above anyone and everyone that disagrees with them. All experts who have studied and said the project won't work are disregarded.
The height of arrogance IMHO
rh
ronharperjr 4 years ago