Penn is the perfect example of a hypocrite, he insults other peoples beliefs, but then cries crocodile tears like a spoiled baby because he wants others to treat his with respect. To get respect you have to give respect. Time to grow up childish one.
Honestly, I don't mind if a Non-Christian prays around me, but when they pray FOR me, as in I'm in a group of people praying and I'm not of their religion, I feel EXTREMELY out of place.
Thin-skin, eh? Well.... not so much. Atheists hardly have a thin skin about anything considering how long we've been dealing with the GodBots and putting up with their self-righteous bullshit and phoney salvation.
What you are witnessing has nothing to do with being thin-skinned. It's all about people who are sick of religious bullying and the theocratic encroachment on free society.
Prayers can and should be silent. When this pretentious, showboating cock gets up in front of a bunch of people, he thinks he's scoring brownie points with his imaginary buddy. Since they're so certain of the imaginary friend's omniscience, all-knowing nature they should realize that there's something such a being would say about quiet humility and being a pretentious, grandstanding cock. Respect for those that pray silently, but these megaphones for Jesus are just self-important twats.
Dude, who fuckin cares?! If someone dies, it is social convention to hold a minutes silence out of respect for that person, not because it says so in some relgious text. If people of various faiths wish to invoke god then let them. The whole point of being an atheist is knowledge over beleif. There is no problem with a group of people mearly showing respect to someone who has died, by holding a minutes silence. Who cares which gods are caled upon, the point is, that person is remembered.
Sir, I would like to apologize. i know i was not one of those who wronged you but as a representative of all that is Good, i feel i must. Those who would call them self Christian should hold others beliefs in high respect. If you cannot respect your brother, how can you love him? Isn't that the point of the teachings? I am ashamed of their lack of consideration for you and your beliefs and i know their is very little i can do to compensate but apologize .. that was a very unchristian act.
Just when I was starting to hate the myth-mongers with the utmost of fiery contempt, you had to come along and be open-minded. Props. Too bad the rest of the Christians don't observe your level of tolerance. I can't say I like the cult itself any more than before, but you personally at least deserve respect.
That's the egotism of most religious types. They just ASSUME everyone believes what they believe and can't fathom that some people don't. That actually makes them question themselves as to how a person COULDN'T believe what they believe. It's all very presumptuous and annoying on their part. Imagine if a Christian was given as award and invited to the event and the guy at the podium asked everyone to rise and give glory to Mohammed and Allah. Wouldn't that Christian be pissed?
We don't know the name and have no details about this organization, but unless it has a specific religious charter it was insensitive and inappropriate for them to hold a prayer, especially knowing that the people they were honoring are outspoken atheists--who did not preach atheism or criticize their faith.
Its great that even thought they said it wasnt religious when it was that you were still respectful when they prayed. some athiests (like Kathy Griffen) probably would have said something mean but you guys did the right thing. I am Christian but would be respectful to other religions or no religion.
I am a member of a community organization that meets weekly. They are all christians and pray at every meeting after the flag salute (I leave out the in god we trust part). They ask members to lead the prayer, havent asked me yet. I will have to decline if asked. So far I just stand silent with my head up, hands to sides, eyes open and wait for it to end.
There's praying, and there's leading a prayer. I was working on a house for Habitat for Humanity, and they do a little free lunch, and someone decided to pray over lunch. I walked away and ate my sandwich. I didn't try to stop them, I didn't bring it up at all, I just left them to it and commenced ingestion.
but like i said, praying just comes natural. im sure he didnt mean to hurt or offend anyone.
tho you're right.....if he said nothing religious, he shouldve kept his word. He couldve let him know....hey, all we're gonna do it pray just so you know.
I went to a thing in college for getting good grades and volunteering, then they started saying some religious crap during the ceremony. I invited my mom and grandma, it was really awkward.
You could do as I do. I don't bow my head and I do not clasp my hands, nor close my eyes. But I some times do stand, but sometimes not, and I am quiet and respectful.
Maybe the organization itself isn't religious, but the fellow doing the talking was, and didn't think that anybody would be offended if he said a few words of prayer. After all, in the worst case scenario he's simply talking to thin air to make himself and those who share his beliefs feel better, and if he's correct in his beliefs it might make a difference to some people in need of divine help.
If I, as a Christian, were to hear someone pray to Allah or Buddha for aid, I wouldn't be offended.
How can you state that proselytizing and evangelizing is the right and only way for Christians, yet speaking about Jesus is not allowed? Speaking about Jesus is evangelizing. It doesn't seem that these people adamantly spoke against non-Christians. It sounds like they were just acting on their faith.
You just said, in your own word "I don't have respect for religion, but maybe you can have respect for ours too." YOU just stated that atheism is a religion.
It isn't catering to the atheist to be honest. They were told it was non-religious and then that guy starting praying in Jesus' name. Not only that, what the hell does prayer have to do with award ceremony? Praying to a specific god or any god as if your audience all agrees is just arrogance, especially when it is known that non-believers will be there. Can you imagine if atheists were to speak at a church and shout "there is no god" in front of all the christians? This is no different.
I saw the B&T bit on second hand smoke. Isn't it worth it for me to handle a bit of discomfort so those others don't have to give up their freedom to smoke? So on this issue, shouldn't I be willing to be a bit uncomfortable in prayer so others have the freedom of religion?
This country was founded on freedom of religious expression. So suck up dudes!
I'm a Jewish believer. I am not a xtian. I have to deal with xtianity all the time in my area. It's no big freakin deal to bow your head and think of something else when the xtians go off on their thing. You don't have to agree with them. They have a right to their opinion or their prayers. I have a problem with xmas, and easter. and a big problem with halloween. I don't let them offend me nor do I let them stifle my beliefs.
My mother was in the hospital and the nurse asked if she could pray for her. My mother thought she meant "you'll be in my prayers" and agreed but then the nurse started praying for her out-loud beside her bed. Mom's a Christian too but even she thought it was over-stepping a boundary for the nurse to do so even if her intentions were good.
Later it turned out the nurse was a power-hungry, self-righteous God freak and a real moody bitch to boot. Religion doesn't make you good or bad, YOU do.
How boring can you be? Penn is living proof you do not need talent or intelligence to succeed in the entertainment business. Not saying that anyone needed another example. I'm just sayin'
I just keep my head up and my eyes open at my step-families get togethers. They are all heavily religious, but It's entertaining to me because in my eyes they're all crazy lol.
it is so awkward when people start praying or talking about god... I feel rude not saying anything and pretending like I agree.. and I feel rude saying something. shit so freaking rude when people think they can just assume you believe what they believe
Do you ever walk up to strangers and talk to them? You speak English to them, right? You actuallly speak and don't use sign language right? So you assume that they speak the same language as you. You assume that they aren't deaf and can actually hear you.
My point is that there shouldn't be anything more offensive about assuming one's religion that there is about assuming one's language. No one has the right to make you feel ashamed or embarrassed about your beliefs.
Jim here: A Catholic youth minister- I just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!! I get so mad at all the people that send me emails that we should be fighting to keep prayer in school and in the justice system. My Beliefs should never be forced on anyone, if I choose to pray in a court room or a classroom thats fine, however it should not be out loud or I should not expect everyone to stop and join in! Love the videos keep them coming!
sorry for the triple posts, but I have one more point I'd like to make. You say you believe in the marketplace of ideas and that if you have a belief you should share it even though you may offend others, but here you say that you shouldn't practice that belief around those who don't share it. Seems a contradiction of views.
But I agree that a public setting that is not meant to be a Chrisitan or Jewish or whatever meeting, a moment of silence should be a moment of silence, not prayer.
I don't think Penn is concerned with other people practicing their beliefs. I think he takes issue in feeling forced to participate in something he'd rather stay away from. I'm sure he'd have no problems with the group having a prayer session were he informed ahead of time that it was going to happen. In that case he could have chosen to avoid the situation altogether.
So you have no religion, but you would begrudge someone else practicing theirs? If you have no belief, who does it hurt for you to stand there and listen to some guy pray for a few minutes. Sure, if he carries on for an hour or tries to interject religion in to every single topic, then you're free to complain; I would, too. But if he did what I would imagine he did and just said a quick prayer and asked for a blessing, don't get your panties in a bunch.
I really have no problem pretending to be praying, or being quiet while someone talks to their God. We should show respect to all beliefs, he didn't say anything against Atheism, why does his prayer offend you?
"We're all offended, all the time, and we don't have a fucking right not to be offended!" Penn season 3 episode 6. If there were muslims there they wouldn't pray, may be a little bit of an assumption. Maybe they were under the impression that "most" people were christian. Political correctness is a bane to society, and not praying for a minute on account of 2 athiests isn't neccessary or overly rude. Hyde i also agree with your idea of being polite to those with actual beliefs.
To me its not about being politically correct as much as it is about the reality that there are people of other faiths all around us. A believer prays to their specific God, if I am a non believer it should not bother me that someone is praying to an imaginary God. I might not like that I have to pretend to pray, so maybe I can walk out. I wasn't there so I don't know what happened. If all I had to do was to listen to a man pray while I stand, I would n't have mind.
Quite respectful to not make a scene, but something should have been said afterwards. I wouldn't have prayed though. You could have just pretended it. Anyway, love your stuff.
I am a practicing Catholic . . . and I hate when people talk during the moment of silence. If you call for a moment of silence, don't talk about Christ or death and destruction or suffering or anything. Let it be silent.
I think that really, a moment of silence is absolutely warranted in many cases. It's a sign of respect, of contemplation, and of human solidarity. The thoughts that go through my mind in such a moment are unique. I'm aware that some others are just being silent to be polite, that some are praying, that some feel it more deeply than me, and that some are using the moment to stare undisturbed at a pretty woman's butt. That's OK; all I would ask is that others not intrude on my contemplation...
...including the speaker, moderator, or other master of events. If silent contemplation is called for, I'm quite capable of providing my own narration.
Get over it, Buddy. We all end up in the same place regardless. ~ I feel it makes simple sense to just recognize that the power source that sustains our existence can be showered with many synonyms as that is the beauty of life and language.
Well, I have no idea why you prayed. But you could do as I do and look at the people with their funny beliefs doing odd rituals. Remember that to not do as they do and not think as they thing is only inherently hostile by THEIR estimation, but not by any reasonable estimation.
I understand what hes trying to say but as a christian im not trying to be defensive about my religion or anything. I feel looking through your eyes i can comprehend what you were feeling at that time.
Penn, I think you did the most gracious thing, under the circumstances- standing respectfully while someone else was praying. Really, any other action (booing, walking out, etc.) would have been boorish. The organizers of that award gala should have been much more respectful of you and your beliefs, but it sounds as though you and Teller acted like true gentlemen, given the circumstance.
...what are you saying? It's difficult to figure out your sentence structure/spelling/grammar. Please be more clear when you're insulting people, so we have SOMETHING to work with....
My father was a southern baptist who was very strict to (us) children. He would start praying & bible reading around my friends & embarassed the hell out of me. He would not allow the TV on only for "sanitized" programs & church stuff. I still hate him for all of that. I am now a non-believer.
thats exactly the type of ignorance that prevents proper education and promotes myth as fact. There is no atheist idol, no atheismo,and that's EXACTLY why Penn was offended. Atheists do the opposite of worship a made up magical being for which there is NO evidence of. Atheist views do NOT involve closing your eyes or speaking in tongues to an ancient made up god, we simply accept fact as fact and promote the use of logic and reason,we wouldnt go up and worship anything only spread knowledge
im by no stretch of the imagination christian, i was agreeing with penn here, i meant that if penn would have started to talk about atheism then they wouldve gotten pissy
i go to pray with my muslim friends and i am christian.why would any one get upset if christians prayed who were athiests.welcome to america.all different people with different beliefs expressing them openly.without fear of reprisal.what a concept.
Not everybody feels comfortable doing things which fall outside of their beliefs. And they have a right to not feel right about basically being tricked into doing something that goes against what they believe in. When Penn asked the guy if there was anything religious involved in the ceremony, the other guy should have been honest and shown him some respect by telling him the truth.
cassidy99ful, I understand what you are trying to say. That you, as a Christian, can pray together with Muslims is commendable for it's open-mindedness, but it is still a personal choice.
One angle I think you are ignoring is that the guy who started the moment of silence (secular) just assumed everybody was a believer when he turned it into a prayer (religious). America, too, is also about having your own voice and this guy was attempting to speak on everyone's behalf.
I'm a Christian, and I diagree with a lot of what Penn says, but it was wrong of them to flat-out lie to him like that. The Bible says that God himself gave man the ability to choose whether or not to follow him, and it annoys me to no end that other Christians tend to respect that right the least.
Penn, I feel like a coward sometimes too, because I don't stand up and say something about what I believe in certain situations. There is a double standard (in America at least) against atheists. I don't know how many times I have had to listen to someone talk about how much they love Jesus, or how they just can't understand how someone wouldn't accept Jesus into their heart. I fear disdain or even pity would follow the espousing of my beliefs, so I remain silent.
I'm a Christian, and I know how so many who claim to be Christian go about it the wrong way. We aren't all trying to force people into Heaven, there's no "cosmic quota" we have to fill or anything like that. Let me explain how we feel to the Atheist crowd out there: we feel like there's a fire in a building, and we've been shown the way out. We want to save as many people as we can, but some don't believe we know the way. Some Christians go about this the wrong way and try to force people out,
...while the ones who go about it the right way can do nothing more than try to convince the people in the fire that they know the escape route.
Atheists, I'm not trying to force you to do or believe anything. I am incredibly sad for everyone who doesn't make it, but it gives me no excuse to condemn you. Just understand where we're coming from, and respect us for caring enough about you to try over and over again to show you what we believe is the escape from the fire.
Because, me for example, came from a religious family and am now an Atheist, I have read the Bible cover to cover, seen all kinds of religious movies, (who hasn't?) so to tell us what you believe not only is completely redundant to us but silly, if I tell you something that you don't believe in is real over and over again, are you going to all of a sudden change your mind? I doubt that.
Because people all over the world change their mind all the time. If not, then there would only have been one Christian ever: Jesus himself.
I didn't believe in evolution when I was told it was real over and over again, but now I'm in college getting an increasingly informed perspective about it, and I'm starting to believe it. Christianity may seem so silly that you can't wrap your mind around it yet, but you have to open that mind up and wonder if there's something you don't know too.
As Penn has said, and I agree, nothing is wrong with proselytizing as long as it is done in good faith, with some degree of lucidity, and done with an understanding of the subject you are trying to reach. You seem to be headed in the right direction--I know several Christians (my mother-in-law included) that could take a hint from you. Some people just want to scream their beliefs (theists and atheists alike) without even trying to establish a dialogue between someone of dissenting opinion.
Yeah, you have to go into every discussion with a mind open to being changed, or, more likely, enhanced, by ideas other than your own. I've had my fair share of learning experiences while conversing with those who have different mindsets than mine, and it's gone both ways. What makes me the most frustrated is when someone complains about "closed-minded" people and claims to have an open mind, when they themselves will not listen to opposing arguments. It's hypocrisy and it's far too common.
Unfortunately, most people with opposing views don't care to hear how the other person views the world, they just like to hear themselves talk. People of faith and atheists alike. I am around people that talk about their love of the Christian God ALL the time, and was even caught unawares being confessed to (I think that's what it's called), them telling me all the reasons they believe in God and how they just can't imagine a life without God in it...full well knowing my beliefs. And I had to
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Hey Penn, what's it like to be an extreme right winged fanatical Atheist? It's like an obsession with you. You and Bill Maher are sooo annoying and pompous. You emit NegatiVe energy... It's poop. poop. poop. betty boop and poop.
Damn, from your response it couldn't be more clear that either you are incredibly dense and what is being said literally doesn't register with you, or, you flat out REFUSE to actually pay attention to anything which might cause to have to consider points of view that don't square with your own.
That's it...I am Dense. Full of density. You have the propencity to use propecia. I still look at yello Geisha. I want to love you Xavier. Be my Density. My love for you Mr. Xavier is what registers. I REFUSE to live without your genius for one day longer. U complete me. I literally LOVE Xavier. Be mine. Happy Valentinos Day. Dont ever mess with a Bub, Aiiiight. You may just get some LOVE in return, you need it. Kiss me. Ha,ha,ha,ha
Imagine an orginization that invites a famous Christian celeb to honor and to the surprise of the guest the group are loud mouthed atheists. Anyone could see how uncomfortable that would be, atheism deserves more respect as an organized religion.
i know. pride is one of the seven deadly sins. but i don't mean pride in the sense as in to brag about it. i mean that you should not be ashamed of it.
I think it shows that these particular people who represent this org. and the org. collectively have respect for you and your good work(s) as a person, although these people may differ in their spiritual beliefs, so, perhaps instead of feeling like a "coward' for not raising a stink over a short prayer perhaps you may be proud for showing restraint and respect, likewise, instead of ignoring your good works because of your perceived lack of belief these people showed mutual respect.
Not knowing what organization you are referring, I can only guess that it is not a religious organization
but perhaps those members of the organization who showed up to give you the award a religious individually. Were it truly a religious org. it is doubtful that it would give awards to atheists, thus, holding atheists as quasi ambassadors of it's org.
Omg the same thing happened to me last night... all the paster was saying was evalution has no scientific fact its just a myth and shit... haha Im only 14 so i probly shouldnt be talking but yeah haha.
I agree Penn we need mutual respect all around for peoples beliefs. But the complete lack of respect theists give to atheists in my opinion isn't right and then the reversal when an atheist speaks up and theists complain about being victims of atheist attacks. No I simply stated my opinion like you stated yours. I am just sick of this silence the atheists and atheists are all hostile. Of course you find an atheist hostile we question your religious beliefs and not with questions but by opinion.
Who the fuck is talking about retaliation!? i never said anything about retaliation.I just said sometimes its the other way around.And i never said anything about lying.i know they lied.your acting like humans never lie.your over exaggarating.
Nobody "just" says something when talking about religion, bud. Saying atheists give disrespect too is pretty much saying, "So what? Everybody does it" instead of dealing with the situation.
I never "acted like humans never lie." Penn asked if there was anything religious about the ceremony. They said no. They were lying. The lie offended Penn, and he has a right to be offended. That's all. I'm not discussing the ethics of lying, here. If it was the other way around, it would still suck.
I know they lied to Penn and i believe that was wrong.But the reason why i replied to what spacecab1 said was because i felt that he believed atheist give respect towards theist,while theist don't respect athiests.I replied with my point being that i feel its the other way around(i do not have no religous beliefs whatsoever).That was my whole point.
Ah, didn't realize you were responding to someone else's point. You're right - it's the same both ways. Didn't follow since I didn't realize you were responding to someone else.
Your response to what I said is your opinion and that's great. Come to the state of Georgia and offer your opinion on your religious beliefs and see the amount of respect you get. Maybe what I said is about my experiences where I live and not the internet. I cant really make a blog in this for you to understand my perspective of why I feel there is a lack of respect for atheists that speak up.
First,can you please remind me what you said and then what i said cause i cant find the comments and i forgot what we were talking about so i can reply to you comment.Thanks.
there's no point in being overdramatic about being around Christians- a lot of my family is religious, but I am an Athiest. I still respect Christians and their faith- they say prayers at family reunions, and I still bow my head and be respectful. I may not pray to the god that I don't believe in, but I can still understand their thanks for the meal and for family and friends. It's not like they're doing it just to annoy me- it's pointless to be mad at them just for expressing their faith.
Christians assume everyone else is also a Christian. They don't think before they pray, they just pray. In any school-prayer debate the Christian will say, "if you don't want to pray you can go out in the hall." They aren't being hateful; they've simply never considered that Jews wouldn't be praying to Jesus. Or, that standing in the hall during a prayer may target one for redneck retribution.
I'm a Christian, but hey, you did the right thing. If you don't believe the same thing, it's just being a decent and kind person. The majority of the time in this life, I am surrounded by people doing and saying things that I don't agree with, but I treat them with respect. I don't have to beat someone up cause they don't believe like I do. Besides, I'm the judge of no one. However, I will still say, you atheist have a lot more faith than believers in God. Even your comedy has a creator.
you can use a lightswitch can you not? Do you have to understand how electricity works in order to use a lightbulb? You don't have to have faith, religion or a concept of a diety to pray, prayer seems to have a function for us human beings that can actually be useful. I think prayer can easily be separated from religion, even if you're just talking to yourself. It's actual in most freshman level textbooks, i came across this in a health class, psychology and many others.
I wouldn't let it bug you man. Part of being atheist means that you don't have to care if people pray around you. It's not the complete absence of religion, nor is it the practice of anti religion. Once you put a structure to it... it becomes religion... so just consider it nothing and be done with it.
I am a Chrisitan, but I feel that Penn and Teller were shown a lack of respect. Especially as they specifically asked about religious content prior to the event. I have more respect for the way Penn handled himself. He didn't make a stink about it, he worked through it. He shouldn't berate himself for insincerity, you have to pick your fights. Well done Penn!
Ugh, I hate how the comments on Youtube are set up. My comment about me 100% agreeing with a statement was somebody disagreeing with Penn, I don't agree with what Penn says in this video.
I knew what you meant gh0. And if a Christian is telling you you're going to hell bc of ur T, then they don't get what it's all about. It's not our job as Christians to fix anybody. Our job is to show God's love to the world and leave the rest to Him. God doesn't care bout ur T shirt.
Why doesn't it work the same for you atheists?! Why is it the Christian who is always supposed to change for every one who doesn't like what we are? As a Christian, I think everyone should pray, but you guys "don't pray" all the time around us Christians. Why don't I have just as much right to be bothered by your "not" praying? You don't change who you are and what you practice around us, why should we change who we are and what we practice around you? ....
Dude don't generalize. I am Atheist and I don't agree at all with what Penn says. Remember, just like Christianity has its hypocritical follows, so does Atheism, you just have to ignore it. If I am in the situation where people pray, I let them have their moment while I just stand there. Even at funerals in churches, I don't bow my head or anything. Just because I am Atheist doesn't mean everyone else has to be.
Maybe so man, but you gotta admit that this world and this country is becoming increasingly intolerant of only one group..Christians. It's ok to be anything else. But if you're a Christian, you're supposed to sit down, shut up and don't be who you are around anyone else because you might offend them, yet no one gives a flip if they offend us, as if we have no equality. Blows my mind dude.
Honestly, I have seen it more the other way around. Maybe it is that way where you live, but where I live if I wear a death metal shirt (which I am an avid fan of) I am told I'm going to hell. I don't believe in God, so that means I'm going to hell. I have been literally attacked because I don't believe in God. Christians can wear shirts that say something about God on them, but if I wear a shirt that signifies I'm atheist, I am asked to turn it inside out. It will never end.
Are you serious? Intolerant of Christians?? I have never heard that before lol. He just doesn't like people praying for everybody and infront of everybody aloud. That doesn't mean people can't prey silently. Yes maybe christians should shut up if they're trying to speak for everybody around them.
I'm sure you wouldn't like a NAZI speaking white power around you and speaking for every person around them...
.... Why isn't fair fair? No Christian ever comes to you and says "hey, why didn't you pray too?" If you want to be offended because a Christian acts like a Christian around you, then doesn't a Christian have equal right to be offended when an atheist acts like an atheist?
I'm agnostic, and to me I dont worry to much about a massive group of people praying around me. If it makes them feel better its fine. Its not hurting me any, If nothing else it gives you a little time to think. And I dont mind christians as long as their not being self-righteous dickhead and preaching to me. I wish I could find an educated christian who can answer my questions.
First off, what IS an educated "Christian"? LOL... I am a catholic and have been my whole life, but that does not define me. I had a class where the teacher was muslim, and when he went to pray during class, many people made fun of him or were UPSET. I respect him for doing what he BELIEVES. I don't believe in same things, but I respect him for ACTING on his beliefs. Did it offend me? Not in the slightest. People speak of TOLERANCE, but shouldn't we be speaking of RESPECT instead?
An Educated Christian in my mind is someone who understands it and can answer a question with more that "Because god wills it" or "because god has a plan for all of us." I would enjoy someone who could explain to me. Like in the ten commandments it says "Thou shall not put any god before me." Doesnt that show Vanity to wish to be the center of everyones praise? I understand that hes god and that everyone should worship him but dont you think it would be wise to leave it up to the people?
Penn if your atheist and believe in no religion then why are you so bent on it? shouldnt the whole ordeal been kind of funny to you? or if your really an atheist wouldnt you have been looking at "those" people as weird or foolishly funny? i think your turning your atheist belief into a religious believe. it shouldnt matter whos around you you dont believe in anything, so why does it matter? please somebody answer that for me
Its a respect issue. To him it wasn't Religion vs. Atheist. It was Christians assuming everybody around them is Christian and thinking they can do what they want without criticism..
well in this situation they had a moment of silence in respect and that guy decided to pray aloud out of respect. and i know maybe it wasnt respectful do that in front of someone who has no claim to any god or religion but that my point. even though that happen he could have just tuned the guy out. whats the harm in a person paying if you dont believe in who or what he's praying too. that was my point. the christian guy was wrong for assuming, but Penn is wrong for caring so much it bothers him
And I really don't think its that big of a deal. I do realise, though, that people make a big deal out of being singled out, and I can understand that.
I see what you mean- i'm an atheist too, and I don't condemn people who are religious, or argue with them, or anything- I pretty much just ignore them. I have a lot of really religious friends, and we get along very well. If conversation gets onto religious topics, we respect each other's beliefs (or lack thereof). Atheists at least want to be respected by christians, and if you go attacking their beliefs as soon as they leave you alone, you're just hurting your own cause.
I agree with u I am a roman catholic, born and raise and i had an atheist uncle and whenever we started talking about religon we would change the topic or we would have a debate but there was never any hostility, we respected each others beliefs
Penn, I am a Christian. however, i want to assure you that not everyone who believes in God is a complete jerk =P
i can totally respect your feelings about this, especially since atheists are always put down for their beliefs, and us Christians expect everyone to "bow their heads" to our beliefs. it disheartens me that our religion has consistently belittled people of different beliefs in situations such as this.
if i may, accept my apology for their behavior on their behalf
Penn, I'm also an atheist but i don't think people shouldn't express their religion around or in font of me because i'm not their religion. I do believe you handled it wrongly. I think you should have raised your head while they bowed theirs and let thempray. that way you could allow them to continue with their religion and you could continue with no religion.
I 100% agree with this statement. I grew up in a very religious family (aside from my parents) and I have pretty much always been Atheist. Whenever Christmas comes around or whatever and people want to pray they bow their heads and I don't do anything, I let them have their moment and they don't give me shit about it. Just because you aren't religious doesn't mean every else else can't be. Respect their beliefs just like you want them to respect yours.
Penn, you should have just walked out and not respond. I'm an atheist who loves Nascar. They're a southern group that always prays. I just walk off and do whatever when they pray to the spaghetti monster.
this country was not founded on christian principles, it was founded as a secularist, free state, they deliberately stayed away from religion when framing the constitution and such
what? penn, you're retarted. just because you're an atheist, the rest of the group can't say a prayer? you're there to help a cause, not to debate religion. if the man wants to say a prayer for some dead people, let him and don't make a big deal out of it. yes, you may be an atheist but people have a right to free speech and a right to choose a religion. its seriously not that big of a deal. they were trying to be respectful and you're bashing them for saying a simple prayer
Let me start out by saying, I am a Christian, but I don't go out and beat people over the head and force people to believe in the way I choose to live. That said, I think its funny that Penn is going on about how he, as an atheist, was disrespected. Someone should remind him that when our fore-fathers started this country, it was all based on Christian principles. It is politically incorrect for me to say Merry Christmas. No more prayers in schools. I'm losing MY right to be a Christian.
It's a difficult position to be in, but I think you did the right thing. When I was in high school, we'd have to stand up to do the Pledge. I would stand up so as not to be disrespectful, but I didn't put my hand on my heart or say it, because we shouldn't say "one nation under God." That's the most respectful way I could think of, you know? As long as you're trying to do the right thing without hurting anyone, I say, "At least you tried."
I ran into the same problems in high school. But then I took the time to read the handbook and learn about the law of it and chose to not stand anymore, at least at school. Of course I got sent to the principals office, but since I did my homework I argued my way out of any punishment. That was something I became acustomed to in high school. Debating my way out of trouble. Anyway, I spoke with the teacher that sent me to the office. He was a vet, but after I explained to him, he was ok with me.
Even Buddhism needs you to "beleive" in the teachings of the "Buddha".
Only in the Sankhya-Yoga and Nyaya-Vaisheshika schoosl of Hindu philosophy (thre are actually 6 schools 4 of which are theistic), you are actually encouraged to question the concept of "God" itself.
Mind you, these schoosl of philosphies developed more than 3000 years back.
FYI to those who don't know, the court you go to will either not use a bible and just ask you to affirm or you can choose. My local court doesn't use bibles, you "affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and there is no 'so help you god". Just thought I would put that out there.
I bow my head to asian traditions (martial arts & japanese) and no other. I respect dead and anything else without bowing.
What is surprising to me is I see a lot of people at events where you were surprised with a prayer follow my lead once I don't bow. I've never talked to anyone about it, I guess they just think Yeah why should I bow to this...
"It's just a Vegas, thing, you know."
pennsays 2 years ago
Penn is the perfect example of a hypocrite, he insults other peoples beliefs, but then cries crocodile tears like a spoiled baby because he wants others to treat his with respect. To get respect you have to give respect. Time to grow up childish one.
skepticslayer1234 2 years ago
Honestly, I don't mind if a Non-Christian prays around me, but when they pray FOR me, as in I'm in a group of people praying and I'm not of their religion, I feel EXTREMELY out of place.
OptimusGonzoo 2 years ago
Ha ha ha. No.
Swede1066 2 years ago
Thin-skin, eh? Well.... not so much. Atheists hardly have a thin skin about anything considering how long we've been dealing with the GodBots and putting up with their self-righteous bullshit and phoney salvation.
What you are witnessing has nothing to do with being thin-skinned. It's all about people who are sick of religious bullying and the theocratic encroachment on free society.
Swede1066 2 years ago
Ah...poor baby.
godforge2003 2 years ago
Prayers can and should be silent. When this pretentious, showboating cock gets up in front of a bunch of people, he thinks he's scoring brownie points with his imaginary buddy. Since they're so certain of the imaginary friend's omniscience, all-knowing nature they should realize that there's something such a being would say about quiet humility and being a pretentious, grandstanding cock. Respect for those that pray silently, but these megaphones for Jesus are just self-important twats.
gr8pumpkin 2 years ago
You're a better man than me. I probably would not have conducted myself so well. I hold religion in the highest contempt.
Swede1066 2 years ago
Dude, who fuckin cares?! If someone dies, it is social convention to hold a minutes silence out of respect for that person, not because it says so in some relgious text. If people of various faiths wish to invoke god then let them. The whole point of being an atheist is knowledge over beleif. There is no problem with a group of people mearly showing respect to someone who has died, by holding a minutes silence. Who cares which gods are caled upon, the point is, that person is remembered.
batman496 2 years ago
I wonder if Penn ever reads these comments.
Koshy2 2 years ago
Sir, I would like to apologize. i know i was not one of those who wronged you but as a representative of all that is Good, i feel i must. Those who would call them self Christian should hold others beliefs in high respect. If you cannot respect your brother, how can you love him? Isn't that the point of the teachings? I am ashamed of their lack of consideration for you and your beliefs and i know their is very little i can do to compensate but apologize .. that was a very unchristian act.
Cha0ticG00d 2 years ago
Just when I was starting to hate the myth-mongers with the utmost of fiery contempt, you had to come along and be open-minded. Props. Too bad the rest of the Christians don't observe your level of tolerance. I can't say I like the cult itself any more than before, but you personally at least deserve respect.
sillygames 2 years ago
@ Cha0ticG00d:
No, I wouldn't say it was unchristian at all. It wasn't very christ-like, but it was very christian.
Swede1066 2 years ago
That's the egotism of most religious types. They just ASSUME everyone believes what they believe and can't fathom that some people don't. That actually makes them question themselves as to how a person COULDN'T believe what they believe. It's all very presumptuous and annoying on their part. Imagine if a Christian was given as award and invited to the event and the guy at the podium asked everyone to rise and give glory to Mohammed and Allah. Wouldn't that Christian be pissed?
shade1978x 2 years ago 2
spot on !
ystein3000 2 years ago
We don't know the name and have no details about this organization, but unless it has a specific religious charter it was insensitive and inappropriate for them to hold a prayer, especially knowing that the people they were honoring are outspoken atheists--who did not preach atheism or criticize their faith.
XaurreauX 2 years ago
Its great that even thought they said it wasnt religious when it was that you were still respectful when they prayed. some athiests (like Kathy Griffen) probably would have said something mean but you guys did the right thing. I am Christian but would be respectful to other religions or no religion.
gut197 2 years ago
I am a member of a community organization that meets weekly. They are all christians and pray at every meeting after the flag salute (I leave out the in god we trust part). They ask members to lead the prayer, havent asked me yet. I will have to decline if asked. So far I just stand silent with my head up, hands to sides, eyes open and wait for it to end.
firemanks098 2 years ago
At the end of prayers I say " And never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers". Its always good for a look or two....LOL!!!
MyFartsRock 2 years ago
I'm Agnostic and I totally understand.
KrazyAssMerci 2 years ago
*slaps thighs with hands, just to see if its really that fun and neccisarry*
pwbpub 2 years ago 2
The man did not mean offense. He was simply praying, something that comes natural if you are a Christian.
Thanks for not making a big scene about it, Penn. You respected the situation, which is something that most atheists do not do.
Like someone else posted, if someone started praying to Alla or Buddha, i wouldnt feel offended. I would just be quiet and respect. Good Vid.
notw08 2 years ago
There's praying, and there's leading a prayer. I was working on a house for Habitat for Humanity, and they do a little free lunch, and someone decided to pray over lunch. I walked away and ate my sandwich. I didn't try to stop them, I didn't bring it up at all, I just left them to it and commenced ingestion.
rlrsk8r1 2 years ago 2
thats the way to do it, bro.
respect...even if you dont get it back.
notw08 2 years ago
Yes but he asked if there would be anything religious and they promised him no. Assumption is the mother of Fuckups.
vonkozmo 2 years ago 2
that true.
but like i said, praying just comes natural. im sure he didnt mean to hurt or offend anyone.
tho you're right.....if he said nothing religious, he shouldve kept his word. He couldve let him know....hey, all we're gonna do it pray just so you know.
notw08 2 years ago
Bullshit! Give an inch loose a mile !!!!! Maybe you should watch 2 homos fuck each other in the ass. Ahhh just suck it up.!!! Get it yet !?
MyFartsRock 2 years ago
I went to a thing in college for getting good grades and volunteering, then they started saying some religious crap during the ceremony. I invited my mom and grandma, it was really awkward.
allawayjared 2 years ago
You could do as I do. I don't bow my head and I do not clasp my hands, nor close my eyes. But I some times do stand, but sometimes not, and I am quiet and respectful.
ickybird 2 years ago
Maybe ashton punked you? lol
attackofthehatta 2 years ago 2
Maybe the organization itself isn't religious, but the fellow doing the talking was, and didn't think that anybody would be offended if he said a few words of prayer. After all, in the worst case scenario he's simply talking to thin air to make himself and those who share his beliefs feel better, and if he's correct in his beliefs it might make a difference to some people in need of divine help.
If I, as a Christian, were to hear someone pray to Allah or Buddha for aid, I wouldn't be offended.
RabiesBunny 2 years ago 2
How can you state that proselytizing and evangelizing is the right and only way for Christians, yet speaking about Jesus is not allowed? Speaking about Jesus is evangelizing. It doesn't seem that these people adamantly spoke against non-Christians. It sounds like they were just acting on their faith.
sexandlacity 2 years ago
Nah, that was humble of you to not make a scene like that.
I am a Christian, and I believe that was a show of humility for you! Humility is a rare jewel these days!
ASappyProduction 2 years ago
XD look at the clock behind him, but eh i agree have respect
FERViolin2010 2 years ago
You just said, in your own word "I don't have respect for religion, but maybe you can have respect for ours too." YOU just stated that atheism is a religion.
saq428 2 years ago
Why should everyone cater to the atheist?
saq428 2 years ago
The issue here is not "catering" but respecting. Just because you believe in god, don't push it on all of those who do not.
pabobfin 2 years ago
It isn't catering to the atheist to be honest. They were told it was non-religious and then that guy starting praying in Jesus' name. Not only that, what the hell does prayer have to do with award ceremony? Praying to a specific god or any god as if your audience all agrees is just arrogance, especially when it is known that non-believers will be there. Can you imagine if atheists were to speak at a church and shout "there is no god" in front of all the christians? This is no different.
breligion 2 years ago
I saw the B&T bit on second hand smoke. Isn't it worth it for me to handle a bit of discomfort so those others don't have to give up their freedom to smoke? So on this issue, shouldn't I be willing to be a bit uncomfortable in prayer so others have the freedom of religion?
This country was founded on freedom of religious expression. So suck up dudes!
bengalwoman 2 years ago
I'm a Jewish believer. I am not a xtian. I have to deal with xtianity all the time in my area. It's no big freakin deal to bow your head and think of something else when the xtians go off on their thing. You don't have to agree with them. They have a right to their opinion or their prayers. I have a problem with xmas, and easter. and a big problem with halloween. I don't let them offend me nor do I let them stifle my beliefs.
bengalwoman 2 years ago
god forgives you doing something you felt was wrong, just to avoid conflict. it happens all the time. cowered!
lol.
but i really like your show.
mrfnk 2 years ago
My mother was in the hospital and the nurse asked if she could pray for her. My mother thought she meant "you'll be in my prayers" and agreed but then the nurse started praying for her out-loud beside her bed. Mom's a Christian too but even she thought it was over-stepping a boundary for the nurse to do so even if her intentions were good.
Later it turned out the nurse was a power-hungry, self-righteous God freak and a real moody bitch to boot. Religion doesn't make you good or bad, YOU do.
cypherpunk11 2 years ago
How boring can you be? Penn is living proof you do not need talent or intelligence to succeed in the entertainment business. Not saying that anyone needed another example. I'm just sayin'
doninsj 2 years ago
up with a prayer is something you have to deal with sometimes. i do it all the time. i dont think its a big deal cause i know most are believers.
fjackson90 2 years ago
lol how many times did he slap his thighs in this movie?? xD
finefinefine 2 years ago
yeah, mom doesn't know I'm an atheist, so when she comes to visit and prays before dinner, I bow my head and grit my teeth. I know how you feel!
torpol 2 years ago
I just keep my head up and my eyes open at my step-families get togethers. They are all heavily religious, but It's entertaining to me because in my eyes they're all crazy lol.
w00terz2 2 years ago
it is so awkward when people start praying or talking about god... I feel rude not saying anything and pretending like I agree.. and I feel rude saying something. shit so freaking rude when people think they can just assume you believe what they believe
katiefershadybaby 2 years ago
Do you ever walk up to strangers and talk to them? You speak English to them, right? You actuallly speak and don't use sign language right? So you assume that they speak the same language as you. You assume that they aren't deaf and can actually hear you.
My point is that there shouldn't be anything more offensive about assuming one's religion that there is about assuming one's language. No one has the right to make you feel ashamed or embarrassed about your beliefs.
pyrobryan 2 years ago
Azan
... count yourself lucky
sailorhaijun 2 years ago
Jim here: A Catholic youth minister- I just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!! I get so mad at all the people that send me emails that we should be fighting to keep prayer in school and in the justice system. My Beliefs should never be forced on anyone, if I choose to pray in a court room or a classroom thats fine, however it should not be out loud or I should not expect everyone to stop and join in! Love the videos keep them coming!
jamesmaurer 2 years ago
sorry for the triple posts, but I have one more point I'd like to make. You say you believe in the marketplace of ideas and that if you have a belief you should share it even though you may offend others, but here you say that you shouldn't practice that belief around those who don't share it. Seems a contradiction of views.
But I agree that a public setting that is not meant to be a Chrisitan or Jewish or whatever meeting, a moment of silence should be a moment of silence, not prayer.
pyrobryan 2 years ago
I don't think Penn is concerned with other people practicing their beliefs. I think he takes issue in feeling forced to participate in something he'd rather stay away from. I'm sure he'd have no problems with the group having a prayer session were he informed ahead of time that it was going to happen. In that case he could have chosen to avoid the situation altogether.
lemonyjesusF 2 years ago 2
What it sounds like to me is that you are saying "I don't like pie and they served cherry pie. Why can't they have respect for me and not serve pie?"
pyrobryan 2 years ago
Haha. Good one
redkiba 2 years ago
So you have no religion, but you would begrudge someone else practicing theirs? If you have no belief, who does it hurt for you to stand there and listen to some guy pray for a few minutes. Sure, if he carries on for an hour or tries to interject religion in to every single topic, then you're free to complain; I would, too. But if he did what I would imagine he did and just said a quick prayer and asked for a blessing, don't get your panties in a bunch.
pyrobryan 2 years ago
I really have no problem pretending to be praying, or being quiet while someone talks to their God. We should show respect to all beliefs, he didn't say anything against Atheism, why does his prayer offend you?
dirtyhyde8 2 years ago
"We're all offended, all the time, and we don't have a fucking right not to be offended!" Penn season 3 episode 6. If there were muslims there they wouldn't pray, may be a little bit of an assumption. Maybe they were under the impression that "most" people were christian. Political correctness is a bane to society, and not praying for a minute on account of 2 athiests isn't neccessary or overly rude. Hyde i also agree with your idea of being polite to those with actual beliefs.
redkiba 2 years ago
To me its not about being politically correct as much as it is about the reality that there are people of other faiths all around us. A believer prays to their specific God, if I am a non believer it should not bother me that someone is praying to an imaginary God. I might not like that I have to pretend to pray, so maybe I can walk out. I wasn't there so I don't know what happened. If all I had to do was to listen to a man pray while I stand, I would n't have mind.
dirtyhyde8 2 years ago
What i meant by political correctness, was the leaps and bounds people go through to not offend anybody.
redkiba 2 years ago
Quite respectful to not make a scene, but something should have been said afterwards. I wouldn't have prayed though. You could have just pretended it. Anyway, love your stuff.
Onigirigod05 2 years ago
I am a practicing Catholic . . . and I hate when people talk during the moment of silence. If you call for a moment of silence, don't talk about Christ or death and destruction or suffering or anything. Let it be silent.
sleepwalk247 2 years ago 7
I think that really, a moment of silence is absolutely warranted in many cases. It's a sign of respect, of contemplation, and of human solidarity. The thoughts that go through my mind in such a moment are unique. I'm aware that some others are just being silent to be polite, that some are praying, that some feel it more deeply than me, and that some are using the moment to stare undisturbed at a pretty woman's butt. That's OK; all I would ask is that others not intrude on my contemplation...
deadacc39322 2 years ago 2
...including the speaker, moderator, or other master of events. If silent contemplation is called for, I'm quite capable of providing my own narration.
deadacc39322 2 years ago
Get over it, Buddy. We all end up in the same place regardless. ~ I feel it makes simple sense to just recognize that the power source that sustains our existence can be showered with many synonyms as that is the beauty of life and language.
NunezGlobal 2 years ago
As a catholic. I'm sorry. That was lame that they told you one thing and did something else.
elchamber 2 years ago 3
"Silence is SILENT."
-Chullander Ghose (Talbot Mundy)
mpzrd 2 years ago
Well, I have no idea why you prayed. But you could do as I do and look at the people with their funny beliefs doing odd rituals. Remember that to not do as they do and not think as they thing is only inherently hostile by THEIR estimation, but not by any reasonable estimation.
Serpent
Libertarian Atheist
Serpent257 2 years ago
I understand what hes trying to say but as a christian im not trying to be defensive about my religion or anything. I feel looking through your eyes i can comprehend what you were feeling at that time.
bplay915 2 years ago
Comment removed
esmeralda38 2 years ago
Penn, I think you did the most gracious thing, under the circumstances- standing respectfully while someone else was praying. Really, any other action (booing, walking out, etc.) would have been boorish. The organizers of that award gala should have been much more respectful of you and your beliefs, but it sounds as though you and Teller acted like true gentlemen, given the circumstance.
esmeralda38 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
stop pouting & slapping your knees. is i even sence a bit of whinning... just like all you atheist. cry cry cry
dustydirt 2 years ago
...what are you saying? It's difficult to figure out your sentence structure/spelling/grammar. Please be more clear when you're insulting people, so we have SOMETHING to work with....
murphydexter311 2 years ago
Man dustydirt, Your just like all you christians. Blind blind blind
Subcidal 2 years ago
My father was a southern baptist who was very strict to (us) children. He would start praying & bible reading around my friends & embarassed the hell out of me. He would not allow the TV on only for "sanitized" programs & church stuff. I still hate him for all of that. I am now a non-believer.
ftjax 2 years ago
i just think that if he would have gone up there and started praying to all mighty atheismo im sure some christians would have gotten pretty pissed
jesusramones1 2 years ago
thats exactly the type of ignorance that prevents proper education and promotes myth as fact. There is no atheist idol, no atheismo,and that's EXACTLY why Penn was offended. Atheists do the opposite of worship a made up magical being for which there is NO evidence of. Atheist views do NOT involve closing your eyes or speaking in tongues to an ancient made up god, we simply accept fact as fact and promote the use of logic and reason,we wouldnt go up and worship anything only spread knowledge
CorporateDefector 2 years ago
i dont understand, are you agreeing with me?
i just said atheismo because of futurama lol
im by no stretch of the imagination christian, i was agreeing with penn here, i meant that if penn would have started to talk about atheism then they wouldve gotten pissy
jesusramones1 2 years ago
i go to pray with my muslim friends and i am christian.why would any one get upset if christians prayed who were athiests.welcome to america.all different people with different beliefs expressing them openly.without fear of reprisal.what a concept.
cassidy99ful 2 years ago
Not everybody feels comfortable doing things which fall outside of their beliefs. And they have a right to not feel right about basically being tricked into doing something that goes against what they believe in. When Penn asked the guy if there was anything religious involved in the ceremony, the other guy should have been honest and shown him some respect by telling him the truth.
DoctorPorkenfries 2 years ago 3
cassidy99ful, I understand what you are trying to say. That you, as a Christian, can pray together with Muslims is commendable for it's open-mindedness, but it is still a personal choice.
One angle I think you are ignoring is that the guy who started the moment of silence (secular) just assumed everybody was a believer when he turned it into a prayer (religious). America, too, is also about having your own voice and this guy was attempting to speak on everyone's behalf.
patchmu84 2 years ago
I'm a Christian, and I diagree with a lot of what Penn says, but it was wrong of them to flat-out lie to him like that. The Bible says that God himself gave man the ability to choose whether or not to follow him, and it annoys me to no end that other Christians tend to respect that right the least.
DoctorPorkenfries 2 years ago 2
It's that kind of flat out denial of other belief systems that really irks me to no end.
murphydexter311 2 years ago
...just sit there, because if I started in with what I believed, I would "upset" them.
murphydexter311 2 years ago
Comment removed
murphydexter311 2 years ago
Penn, I feel like a coward sometimes too, because I don't stand up and say something about what I believe in certain situations. There is a double standard (in America at least) against atheists. I don't know how many times I have had to listen to someone talk about how much they love Jesus, or how they just can't understand how someone wouldn't accept Jesus into their heart. I fear disdain or even pity would follow the espousing of my beliefs, so I remain silent.
murphydexter311 2 years ago
how does it spit in ur face if someone prays around you
noooblover 2 years ago
I'm a Christian, and I know how so many who claim to be Christian go about it the wrong way. We aren't all trying to force people into Heaven, there's no "cosmic quota" we have to fill or anything like that. Let me explain how we feel to the Atheist crowd out there: we feel like there's a fire in a building, and we've been shown the way out. We want to save as many people as we can, but some don't believe we know the way. Some Christians go about this the wrong way and try to force people out,
mrchuckmorris 2 years ago
...while the ones who go about it the right way can do nothing more than try to convince the people in the fire that they know the escape route.
Atheists, I'm not trying to force you to do or believe anything. I am incredibly sad for everyone who doesn't make it, but it gives me no excuse to condemn you. Just understand where we're coming from, and respect us for caring enough about you to try over and over again to show you what we believe is the escape from the fire.
mrchuckmorris 2 years ago
The Jews couldnt escape the fires from the furnace. I dont think you God believers arent helping at all.
Leirnessthy 2 years ago
You don't need to do that mrchuckmorris. Why?
Because, me for example, came from a religious family and am now an Atheist, I have read the Bible cover to cover, seen all kinds of religious movies, (who hasn't?) so to tell us what you believe not only is completely redundant to us but silly, if I tell you something that you don't believe in is real over and over again, are you going to all of a sudden change your mind? I doubt that.
artblack01 2 years ago
Because people all over the world change their mind all the time. If not, then there would only have been one Christian ever: Jesus himself.
I didn't believe in evolution when I was told it was real over and over again, but now I'm in college getting an increasingly informed perspective about it, and I'm starting to believe it. Christianity may seem so silly that you can't wrap your mind around it yet, but you have to open that mind up and wonder if there's something you don't know too.
mrchuckmorris 2 years ago
As Penn has said, and I agree, nothing is wrong with proselytizing as long as it is done in good faith, with some degree of lucidity, and done with an understanding of the subject you are trying to reach. You seem to be headed in the right direction--I know several Christians (my mother-in-law included) that could take a hint from you. Some people just want to scream their beliefs (theists and atheists alike) without even trying to establish a dialogue between someone of dissenting opinion.
murphydexter311 2 years ago
Yeah, you have to go into every discussion with a mind open to being changed, or, more likely, enhanced, by ideas other than your own. I've had my fair share of learning experiences while conversing with those who have different mindsets than mine, and it's gone both ways. What makes me the most frustrated is when someone complains about "closed-minded" people and claims to have an open mind, when they themselves will not listen to opposing arguments. It's hypocrisy and it's far too common.
mrchuckmorris 2 years ago
Unfortunately, most people with opposing views don't care to hear how the other person views the world, they just like to hear themselves talk. People of faith and atheists alike. I am around people that talk about their love of the Christian God ALL the time, and was even caught unawares being confessed to (I think that's what it's called), them telling me all the reasons they believe in God and how they just can't imagine a life without God in it...full well knowing my beliefs. And I had to
murphydexter311 2 years ago
The cosmic jewish zombie thrives on a captive audience; prisons, schools, children and public functions.
rockman1969 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey Penn, what's it like to be an extreme right winged fanatical Atheist? It's like an obsession with you. You and Bill Maher are sooo annoying and pompous. You emit NegatiVe energy... It's poop. poop. poop. betty boop and poop.
AlrightBub 2 years ago
"AlrightBub"
Damn, from your response it couldn't be more clear that either you are incredibly dense and what is being said literally doesn't register with you, or, you flat out REFUSE to actually pay attention to anything which might cause to have to consider points of view that don't square with your own.
XavierNinnis 2 years ago
That's it...I am Dense. Full of density. You have the propencity to use propecia. I still look at yello Geisha. I want to love you Xavier. Be my Density. My love for you Mr. Xavier is what registers. I REFUSE to live without your genius for one day longer. U complete me. I literally LOVE Xavier. Be mine. Happy Valentinos Day. Dont ever mess with a Bub, Aiiiight. You may just get some LOVE in return, you need it. Kiss me. Ha,ha,ha,ha
AlrightBub 2 years ago
Consider this, a day without views and opinions is a day of peace so Flip OFF Xavier!
AlrightBub 2 years ago
Imagine an orginization that invites a famous Christian celeb to honor and to the surprise of the guest the group are loud mouthed atheists. Anyone could see how uncomfortable that would be, atheism deserves more respect as an organized religion.
benhadlock 2 years ago
i know. pride is one of the seven deadly sins. but i don't mean pride in the sense as in to brag about it. i mean that you should not be ashamed of it.
yhtomit627GU 2 years ago
I'm still praying for you and I respect the fact that you believe in mutual respect between believers and nonbelievers.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
I think it shows that these particular people who represent this org. and the org. collectively have respect for you and your good work(s) as a person, although these people may differ in their spiritual beliefs, so, perhaps instead of feeling like a "coward' for not raising a stink over a short prayer perhaps you may be proud for showing restraint and respect, likewise, instead of ignoring your good works because of your perceived lack of belief these people showed mutual respect.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Not knowing what organization you are referring, I can only guess that it is not a religious organization
but perhaps those members of the organization who showed up to give you the award a religious individually. Were it truly a religious org. it is doubtful that it would give awards to atheists, thus, holding atheists as quasi ambassadors of it's org.
ScarlettKnights 2 years ago
Omg the same thing happened to me last night... all the paster was saying was evalution has no scientific fact its just a myth and shit... haha Im only 14 so i probly shouldnt be talking but yeah haha.
mikehawkwilleatyou 2 years ago
I agree Penn we need mutual respect all around for peoples beliefs. But the complete lack of respect theists give to atheists in my opinion isn't right and then the reversal when an atheist speaks up and theists complain about being victims of atheist attacks. No I simply stated my opinion like you stated yours. I am just sick of this silence the atheists and atheists are all hostile. Of course you find an atheist hostile we question your religious beliefs and not with questions but by opinion.
spacecab1 2 years ago
But sometimes its also the other way around.Sometimes atheist give a lack of respect to theist because they believe there is a god.
matthew562 2 years ago
"Sometimes" doesn't mean the other side can or should retaliate. Because one person does it doesn't mean another one should do it back.
And it isn't lack of respect. It was lying. They said there was nothing religious about the ceremony, and there was. Plain lying.
BreakingSocrates 2 years ago 2
Who the fuck is talking about retaliation!? i never said anything about retaliation.I just said sometimes its the other way around.And i never said anything about lying.i know they lied.your acting like humans never lie.your over exaggarating.
matthew562 2 years ago
Nobody "just" says something when talking about religion, bud. Saying atheists give disrespect too is pretty much saying, "So what? Everybody does it" instead of dealing with the situation.
I never "acted like humans never lie." Penn asked if there was anything religious about the ceremony. They said no. They were lying. The lie offended Penn, and he has a right to be offended. That's all. I'm not discussing the ethics of lying, here. If it was the other way around, it would still suck.
BreakingSocrates 2 years ago
I know they lied to Penn and i believe that was wrong.But the reason why i replied to what spacecab1 said was because i felt that he believed atheist give respect towards theist,while theist don't respect athiests.I replied with my point being that i feel its the other way around(i do not have no religous beliefs whatsoever).That was my whole point.
matthew562 2 years ago
Ah, didn't realize you were responding to someone else's point. You're right - it's the same both ways. Didn't follow since I didn't realize you were responding to someone else.
BreakingSocrates 2 years ago
It's cool.
matthew562 2 years ago
Your response to what I said is your opinion and that's great. Come to the state of Georgia and offer your opinion on your religious beliefs and see the amount of respect you get. Maybe what I said is about my experiences where I live and not the internet. I cant really make a blog in this for you to understand my perspective of why I feel there is a lack of respect for atheists that speak up.
spacecab1 2 years ago
First,can you please remind me what you said and then what i said cause i cant find the comments and i forgot what we were talking about so i can reply to you comment.Thanks.
matthew562 2 years ago
there's no point in being overdramatic about being around Christians- a lot of my family is religious, but I am an Athiest. I still respect Christians and their faith- they say prayers at family reunions, and I still bow my head and be respectful. I may not pray to the god that I don't believe in, but I can still understand their thanks for the meal and for family and friends. It's not like they're doing it just to annoy me- it's pointless to be mad at them just for expressing their faith.
Spock356 2 years ago
eh. . . it all depends in what you belive
legkid345 2 years ago
Christians assume everyone else is also a Christian. They don't think before they pray, they just pray. In any school-prayer debate the Christian will say, "if you don't want to pray you can go out in the hall." They aren't being hateful; they've simply never considered that Jews wouldn't be praying to Jesus. Or, that standing in the hall during a prayer may target one for redneck retribution.
ld0yle 2 years ago
I'm a Christian, but hey, you did the right thing. If you don't believe the same thing, it's just being a decent and kind person. The majority of the time in this life, I am surrounded by people doing and saying things that I don't agree with, but I treat them with respect. I don't have to beat someone up cause they don't believe like I do. Besides, I'm the judge of no one. However, I will still say, you atheist have a lot more faith than believers in God. Even your comedy has a creator.
ChinaLuster 2 years ago
you can use a lightswitch can you not? Do you have to understand how electricity works in order to use a lightbulb? You don't have to have faith, religion or a concept of a diety to pray, prayer seems to have a function for us human beings that can actually be useful. I think prayer can easily be separated from religion, even if you're just talking to yourself. It's actual in most freshman level textbooks, i came across this in a health class, psychology and many others.
TheDrewpnutz92119 2 years ago
I wouldn't let it bug you man. Part of being atheist means that you don't have to care if people pray around you. It's not the complete absence of religion, nor is it the practice of anti religion. Once you put a structure to it... it becomes religion... so just consider it nothing and be done with it.
g3ll0 2 years ago
god, i hate these commercials at the beginning. this isn't Hulu.
GnikNusEht 2 years ago 2
I am a Chrisitan, but I feel that Penn and Teller were shown a lack of respect. Especially as they specifically asked about religious content prior to the event. I have more respect for the way Penn handled himself. He didn't make a stink about it, he worked through it. He shouldn't berate himself for insincerity, you have to pick your fights. Well done Penn!
damilla1958 2 years ago 2
Ugh, I hate how the comments on Youtube are set up. My comment about me 100% agreeing with a statement was somebody disagreeing with Penn, I don't agree with what Penn says in this video.
gh0stofsparta 2 years ago
I knew what you meant gh0. And if a Christian is telling you you're going to hell bc of ur T, then they don't get what it's all about. It's not our job as Christians to fix anybody. Our job is to show God's love to the world and leave the rest to Him. God doesn't care bout ur T shirt.
yosme 2 years ago
Hey MrMaggot, I fancy myself an educated Christian. I'd take a crack at answering your questions. Ask away. Email me at yosmeman(at)gmail(dot)com.
yosme 2 years ago
Why doesn't it work the same for you atheists?! Why is it the Christian who is always supposed to change for every one who doesn't like what we are? As a Christian, I think everyone should pray, but you guys "don't pray" all the time around us Christians. Why don't I have just as much right to be bothered by your "not" praying? You don't change who you are and what you practice around us, why should we change who we are and what we practice around you? ....
yosme 2 years ago
Dude don't generalize. I am Atheist and I don't agree at all with what Penn says. Remember, just like Christianity has its hypocritical follows, so does Atheism, you just have to ignore it. If I am in the situation where people pray, I let them have their moment while I just stand there. Even at funerals in churches, I don't bow my head or anything. Just because I am Atheist doesn't mean everyone else has to be.
gh0stofsparta 2 years ago
Maybe so man, but you gotta admit that this world and this country is becoming increasingly intolerant of only one group..Christians. It's ok to be anything else. But if you're a Christian, you're supposed to sit down, shut up and don't be who you are around anyone else because you might offend them, yet no one gives a flip if they offend us, as if we have no equality. Blows my mind dude.
yosme 2 years ago
Honestly, I have seen it more the other way around. Maybe it is that way where you live, but where I live if I wear a death metal shirt (which I am an avid fan of) I am told I'm going to hell. I don't believe in God, so that means I'm going to hell. I have been literally attacked because I don't believe in God. Christians can wear shirts that say something about God on them, but if I wear a shirt that signifies I'm atheist, I am asked to turn it inside out. It will never end.
gh0stofsparta 2 years ago
Are you serious? Intolerant of Christians?? I have never heard that before lol. He just doesn't like people praying for everybody and infront of everybody aloud. That doesn't mean people can't prey silently. Yes maybe christians should shut up if they're trying to speak for everybody around them.
I'm sure you wouldn't like a NAZI speaking white power around you and speaking for every person around them...
wrathchild368 2 years ago
.... Why isn't fair fair? No Christian ever comes to you and says "hey, why didn't you pray too?" If you want to be offended because a Christian acts like a Christian around you, then doesn't a Christian have equal right to be offended when an atheist acts like an atheist?
yosme 2 years ago
I'm agnostic, and to me I dont worry to much about a massive group of people praying around me. If it makes them feel better its fine. Its not hurting me any, If nothing else it gives you a little time to think. And I dont mind christians as long as their not being self-righteous dickhead and preaching to me. I wish I could find an educated christian who can answer my questions.
MrMaggot420 2 years ago
First off, what IS an educated "Christian"? LOL... I am a catholic and have been my whole life, but that does not define me. I had a class where the teacher was muslim, and when he went to pray during class, many people made fun of him or were UPSET. I respect him for doing what he BELIEVES. I don't believe in same things, but I respect him for ACTING on his beliefs. Did it offend me? Not in the slightest. People speak of TOLERANCE, but shouldn't we be speaking of RESPECT instead?
chrisdsanders 2 years ago
An Educated Christian in my mind is someone who understands it and can answer a question with more that "Because god wills it" or "because god has a plan for all of us." I would enjoy someone who could explain to me. Like in the ten commandments it says "Thou shall not put any god before me." Doesnt that show Vanity to wish to be the center of everyones praise? I understand that hes god and that everyone should worship him but dont you think it would be wise to leave it up to the people?
MrMaggot420 2 years ago
Penn- F*ck off- When I want the religious view of a fat magician I'll ask. Stick to the magic.
MusicCityCichlids 2 years ago
lol rolf
cwood4ever 2 years ago
Penn if your atheist and believe in no religion then why are you so bent on it? shouldnt the whole ordeal been kind of funny to you? or if your really an atheist wouldnt you have been looking at "those" people as weird or foolishly funny? i think your turning your atheist belief into a religious believe. it shouldnt matter whos around you you dont believe in anything, so why does it matter? please somebody answer that for me
infinitemes 2 years ago
Its a respect issue. To him it wasn't Religion vs. Atheist. It was Christians assuming everybody around them is Christian and thinking they can do what they want without criticism..
wrathchild368 2 years ago
well in this situation they had a moment of silence in respect and that guy decided to pray aloud out of respect. and i know maybe it wasnt respectful do that in front of someone who has no claim to any god or religion but that my point. even though that happen he could have just tuned the guy out. whats the harm in a person paying if you dont believe in who or what he's praying too. that was my point. the christian guy was wrong for assuming, but Penn is wrong for caring so much it bothers him
infinitemes 2 years ago
I would never say somebody is wrong for caring...
And I really don't think its that big of a deal. I do realise, though, that people make a big deal out of being singled out, and I can understand that.
wrathchild368 2 years ago
I see what you mean- i'm an atheist too, and I don't condemn people who are religious, or argue with them, or anything- I pretty much just ignore them. I have a lot of really religious friends, and we get along very well. If conversation gets onto religious topics, we respect each other's beliefs (or lack thereof). Atheists at least want to be respected by christians, and if you go attacking their beliefs as soon as they leave you alone, you're just hurting your own cause.
Spock356 2 years ago
I agree with u I am a roman catholic, born and raise and i had an atheist uncle and whenever we started talking about religon we would change the topic or we would have a debate but there was never any hostility, we respected each others beliefs
bigirish1000 2 years ago
Buddhism is the best! The theory of a god that is friendly and not corrupt!
koopa2222 2 years ago
Penn, I am a Christian. however, i want to assure you that not everyone who believes in God is a complete jerk =P
i can totally respect your feelings about this, especially since atheists are always put down for their beliefs, and us Christians expect everyone to "bow their heads" to our beliefs. it disheartens me that our religion has consistently belittled people of different beliefs in situations such as this.
if i may, accept my apology for their behavior on their behalf
cjmythrandir 2 years ago
Comment removed
infinitemes 2 years ago
Penn, I'm also an atheist but i don't think people shouldn't express their religion around or in font of me because i'm not their religion. I do believe you handled it wrongly. I think you should have raised your head while they bowed theirs and let thempray. that way you could allow them to continue with their religion and you could continue with no religion.
anidleofseptember 2 years ago
I 100% agree with this statement. I grew up in a very religious family (aside from my parents) and I have pretty much always been Atheist. Whenever Christmas comes around or whatever and people want to pray they bow their heads and I don't do anything, I let them have their moment and they don't give me shit about it. Just because you aren't religious doesn't mean every else else can't be. Respect their beliefs just like you want them to respect yours.
gh0stofsparta 2 years ago
Cry me a river :P
zimwivez 2 years ago
Penn, you should have just walked out and not respond. I'm an atheist who loves Nascar. They're a southern group that always prays. I just walk off and do whatever when they pray to the spaghetti monster.
drogoscg1 2 years ago
this country was not founded on christian principles, it was founded as a secularist, free state, they deliberately stayed away from religion when framing the constitution and such
EndrWggn 2 years ago 2
and then they put "in God we trust" on all our money and in our pledge, and in the declaration of independence
Milkman3177 2 years ago
indeed
EndrWggn 2 years ago
what? penn, you're retarted. just because you're an atheist, the rest of the group can't say a prayer? you're there to help a cause, not to debate religion. if the man wants to say a prayer for some dead people, let him and don't make a big deal out of it. yes, you may be an atheist but people have a right to free speech and a right to choose a religion. its seriously not that big of a deal. they were trying to be respectful and you're bashing them for saying a simple prayer
basketball201120 2 years ago
Let me start out by saying, I am a Christian, but I don't go out and beat people over the head and force people to believe in the way I choose to live. That said, I think its funny that Penn is going on about how he, as an atheist, was disrespected. Someone should remind him that when our fore-fathers started this country, it was all based on Christian principles. It is politically incorrect for me to say Merry Christmas. No more prayers in schools. I'm losing MY right to be a Christian.
TonyHawkInASock 2 years ago
since when is speaking out against religion/Christianity "strong language"
mgsShagohod 2 years ago
As a christian...if i can convince you to be a christian...then someone else can convince you to not be one
arielassault114 2 years ago
It's a difficult position to be in, but I think you did the right thing. When I was in high school, we'd have to stand up to do the Pledge. I would stand up so as not to be disrespectful, but I didn't put my hand on my heart or say it, because we shouldn't say "one nation under God." That's the most respectful way I could think of, you know? As long as you're trying to do the right thing without hurting anyone, I say, "At least you tried."
seraphinapandora 2 years ago
I ran into the same problems in high school. But then I took the time to read the handbook and learn about the law of it and chose to not stand anymore, at least at school. Of course I got sent to the principals office, but since I did my homework I argued my way out of any punishment. That was something I became acustomed to in high school. Debating my way out of trouble. Anyway, I spoke with the teacher that sent me to the office. He was a vet, but after I explained to him, he was ok with me.
LurchLand 2 years ago
Even Buddhism needs you to "beleive" in the teachings of the "Buddha".
Only in the Sankhya-Yoga and Nyaya-Vaisheshika schoosl of Hindu philosophy (thre are actually 6 schools 4 of which are theistic), you are actually encouraged to question the concept of "God" itself.
Mind you, these schoosl of philosphies developed more than 3000 years back.
utsavchakra 2 years ago
I dread the day I have to go to court and swear on the bible haha.
doktorteeth 2 years ago
FYI to those who don't know, the court you go to will either not use a bible and just ask you to affirm or you can choose. My local court doesn't use bibles, you "affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and there is no 'so help you god". Just thought I would put that out there.
rylraven13 2 years ago
Yea, but I live in Georgia. They use them in my local courts. One of the many many reasons I would like to move.
doktorteeth 2 years ago
I bow my head to asian traditions (martial arts & japanese) and no other. I respect dead and anything else without bowing.
What is surprising to me is I see a lot of people at events where you were surprised with a prayer follow my lead once I don't bow. I've never talked to anyone about it, I guess they just think Yeah why should I bow to this...
JasperXoR 2 years ago
I agree Penn. Well said.