The point is, there are violations of human rights in every country on the planet; Every country contributes a portion to global environment problems and China is not the biggest share holder.
Whereas, why are so many people over the world blame all these problems only for China!
And please do not forget, China is still a developing country. See for yourself how well other developing countries are doing right now.
Check the wikipedia press freedom list America is at the bottom only beat by China. I don't condone the Chinese violence or censorship but if you think western media is free your moronic.
Back again: you are the relative moralitivist. Please assume what you are.
I have chronology of events for me.
Since the beginning, you claim that the actions of the West are the past evading that these actions are main actors in the West situation.
As you are unable to face it, you are the one supporting the Chinese government. Not me.
All you have done since the beginning, is closing the door: " We have done this in the past. It has helped us greatly in building our society prosperity...
Because of this kind of attitude, millions of Chinese are flocking behind their government. Your relentless failure to point out the real issue of the way the Western world has achieved what it has is the best support.
Your washing hand attitude completes that.
As long as you will fail to demand as much from your side as you demand from China, please drop down the label of the human rights because obviously they are just a pretext for you.
Up to now, you keep failing to integrate any of my comments.
I underline the powerlessness of freedom of speech in the Western world to inflect on the course of a policy. One example among many in this comment section.
You show you cant integrate this fact in your way of reasoning.
You are the one backing up China's current government by evading this question. Not me.
Obviously, China is on the path to build a very...
That is what you fear. You dont care about human rights and stuff. Human rights for you and your ilk are just a weapon to further your domination agenda. You are okay with domination as long as you are the dominant.
That is why you keep harping on China using human rights as their weak point.
You dont care if freedom of speech is useless in the western world because you agree with the current social order and relish the opportunity of denouncing it...
while perfectling knowing that this order will not be endangered because freedom of speech is no longer subversive.
You dont care about food riots and stuff. In this convo, you took the dominant stance on the third world "I can consider to agree maybe that etc..." It all depends on your good will. You are a power hungry one.
That is all. Please get out of the human rights stuff. Because you dont care human rights. You dont care universality. You dont care about humanity.
And you continue to try and frame critics of China as advocates of Western Crimes. If you are being sincere, you can keep your relativism. You know full well that resources available to those who advocate for human right and right now is the time to press China.
The rising price of food and its effect on the worlds most vulnerable? If you actually have an effect suggestion on how to tackle that, lets hear it. That would be far more productive than using it to excuse the CCP.
Your view of human rights as a western construct and weapon of oppression, has merit, however it is the very same cover that most of the third world's worst criminals have used for murder, genocide, and the like, especially in former colonies.
You speak of facing reality as it is. I assume that you mean facing the reality that most of human history and especially the rise and domination of the West is paved in blood. It is unacceptable that humanity should carry on in this way. You hint that human rights are only achieve after prosperity, when free speech is nullified.
This is a great error. As one it presumes that Prosperity and human rights are naturally at odds with eachother. This is what a dominant class has a vested interest in believing.
But as we are seeing in places like Africa and South America, this not the case.
Are we biased against China? Only if you believe that you can only do one thing at a time. In a globalized world those who can express free speech have an obligation to speak out when our brothers and sisters can not.
have been benefiting a lot from infringing human rights and we dont want others to benefit as we have"
That is all what your words and actions are telling.
You want China and other countries to respect the human rights whereas the situation of the West is the consequence of major infringements of these rights.
So please dont try to shift the burden of responsibility here on me: you are the one supporting this stuff by your relentless failure to address the problem.
i never said i support China cause, i just point out that everything China done the western countries did it too. you can't criticize China if your own country is doing the same thing, it just make your statement lame. even if you are a self proclaim righteous person who denounce your own government.
I agree that China has human right problems. Unfortunately all countries do. How does reiterating this have anything to do with the Western media being biased against China? You are doing exactly what George Bush is doing when confonted with problems in Iraq, and that is to divert the attention of the people by focusing on something completely irrelavant.
PS: There is youtube in China you moron, I'm taking my vacation here right now.
PPS: That suit over a Chinese Tangzhuang make you look fat.
Chinese officals decided that youtube would be banned after an incident where a new anchor confronted her husband with his cheating on TV. The video make it around via youtube. Officials stated that Youtube would be replaced with an offical state controled site where videos must live up to a "strict socialist moral code"
Explain then, how the hell am I using it? I am in Shanghai right now. Even if yoube is banned, what does that have to do with the WESTERN MEDIA BEING BIASED? answer my damn question. Go on anti-cnn you will find TONS of evidences of the Western media's bias towards China.
PS since you decided on personal attacks: I will not lick your fucking balls and nor will any woman who'd prefer to lick the balls a pig rolling around in shit over your balls you fuckin fat ugly fuck.
"Freedom, respect for the dignity of all peoples, and justice are not mutually exclusive to development and prosperity.
SHAME on you and others for suggesting otherwise."
Yet that is what the study of a place like the US suggests.
Has the creation and the developpment of the US benefited the in groups( US citizens)? Yes, it has. It is a common feature of oppression. Oppression benefits the oppressors.
Human rights has it that rights are not limited to in group members.
Can this be checked through US history? Hardly. On the contrary, somebody coming with the thesis that the selective infringements of these said rights of certain populations is what has helped to entitle the ingroups with prerogatives.
Human rights are supposed to be grounded in universality. Yet again, knowing US citizens shows that there is a deep sense of tribalism in this population.There are americans and the others.
Example: criticism on the Iraq wars often only rely on the US casualties. US people say they are concerned with the 4000+ Americans who died there. They dont care about the 1 M+ Iraqis who died. They cant relate to these guys. Because they are not Americans.
So again, you are hiding from the facts: all the ideas, principles and stuff... you keep hammering are a failure at home(the US and stuff) Why should other countries adopt failing ideas?
But again, I doubt it is your goal. Because as I underlined, in your eyes, China is first guilty on violence on what is perceived on its people. An incomfortable difference because in the west, the advancement has been done at the expense of other peoples, that is why for example ideas like racism has been so successful in the West. Because they correspond with a direct need of the expanding population.
I fail to see how my views on China are equated with condoning the actions and situations that you meantioned.
Congratz you have a firm grip on the Human Rights situation in the west, albeit through a biased lens of your own. While that may serve to scare off some critics of China, it hardly excuses genocide, anywhere, by anyone, at anytime
Shame on you for justifying terror. All you have proven is that China only cares about profit and development no matter who has to get bulldozed over in the process.
you are not the ccp. you are just looking at things from a short-term perspective. china can't just suddenly transform their system. look at what happened to russia in the early 90's. south east asian countries have their own ways to manage their nations and succeeding at doing so without the pressures from paternalistic and self-righteous attitudes of the west (ie. asian economic tigers).
genocide? if i remember correctly, americans purposefully marginalized native indians from their lands and wiped out a significant portion of their population. sure china have human rights violations, but so do other nations out there. i mean look at guantanamo bay... somehow you think its justified for americans to hurt others in name of "democracy"? fundamentally this is not a discussion about human rights, but rather is the age-old battle between ideologies of liberal democracy and socialism.
No I do not think guantanemo bay is justified in the name of democracy or imperialism, or whatever they are calling it these days. How dare you equate supporting human rights in China with advocating for the human rights abuses at Guantanemo. Shame on you.
Shame on me? That's all you can say when somebody has a credible argument? China is in a transitionary phase therefore a developing nation. Modernized countries such as the USA have had that opportunity to go through such transitions while China is still developing. More like shame on you for your ignorance and your monolithic view on politics.
I agree with aldobear. First of all, the "Shame on you" comment is completely unnecessary. China is still developing. It is unfair to not give it a chance. Have we forgotten so quickly about the Kent State shootings? We don't have the best human rights record out there. Who are we to tell others about morals and human rights when we have violated them repeatedly and downplayed them to the best of our abilities.
The OG are in China. Good. Hey, but a country needs to have achieved world standards to welcome the OGs. Opppps, me thinks that countries where people see their human rights infringed on a daily basis wont never get the light shed on them because they cant welcome this sports events. Too bad for them. Their human rights will have to wait.
As to the scam of bringing the West to "its" human rights task, keep it for the gullible.
It will never happen. But still please feel free and China will..
follow. The West have paved the path. China is not hitting its own shortcomings, China is hitting the West own shortcomings. Maybe time for you to grow up and stop claiming that the past is not an excuse for the present. The present is a continuation of the past. That is harsh but that is the way it is.
"Human rights and democracy are a CIA conspiracy or a western construct or what ever" That is the anathem of two bit third dictators for decades. Its too bad you have bought it hook line and sinker.
You english changes from time to time. I believe there are multiple people using this account...
As I said earlier, currently, China biggest issue is not oppression, it is oppression of its own people. This feature is what makes many westerners uncomfortable. Because in the west, advancement was made at the expense of other peoples. Peoples were stripped from their human rights to give entitlements ot western peoples. This is what happened. China is advancing through oppression of its own people. Again that is the main point. This guy is at it again.
That is the disturbing point for most of westerners. Racism is a core engine in the Western world: oppress other races to get benefits, do not oppress your own race.
China is not racist, China is xenophobic. China has to advance in modernity and start ending oppression on its own race to advance through oppression of another race.
Freedom, respect for the dignity of all peoples, and justice are not mutually exclusive to development and prosperity.
SHAME on you and others for suggesting otherwise.
What you are neglecting is the fact that people in my society are starting to wake up to the enviromental costs and human costs of our model of development.
You keep dismissing the facts I mentioned because you prefer to hide behind the idea that my words here can speak louder than the actions by the Western world.
The West has paved the path. China is not responsible for this. As the West is unwilling to mend his past errors or unable to do, why should China be willing or able to do such a thing?
You say that you demand from your own nation. It is wrong. You demand more from China than from your own nation.
If you want to be fair to China, keep demanding what you are demanding from your nation and in the same useless, meaningless, inefficient way, quick to find excuses, quick to evade real points, quick to point out others' doings while neglecting your own nation's doings.
The past is the past and the present will be the past.
You however seek to distract people with the human rights abuses of their own so that you can advocate state sponsored terror.
The time to take the US to task will be soon and I am sure that there will be an equal number of slack-jacked patriots beating thier nationalistic drums like monkeys.
Any way you cut it, The Chinese regime is guilty of using terror against its own people and crimes against humanity.
People like you do not love thier country, they advocate for terror.
Stop using what the West has done to justify state terror. Its lame.
The Chinese government is acting like just another gang of capitalist thugs.
Actually agree about taking the west to task for its human rights failures, but the olympics are in China and the time to highlight the Chinese Regime's state sponsored terror is now.
Dont put your words in my mouth. You are the one when facing the issue of sovereignty being tramped on in Europe at saying stuff like "at least the government does not shoot on the populace" Not me.
So if you think that people relying on this kind of argumentation to hide an infringement of a principle are tyrants/fascists, you are what you think you are.
Stop preaching with words. Start to preach by the example. Show that the Western world was wrong.
Because you know, China is doing nothing new. China is following the path of the Western world. So reform yourself before asking from others, less fortunate, to reform themselves.
Because the current reign of terror that the Chinese regime is engages in right now make even the most vile days in Iraq look like happy funtime land. Seriously China is the only country that actually makes up look good anymore.
I do demand it from my own nation. Apparently you missed that part when you combed my videos.
Preach by example. Thats the rub. All of the meager advances that we have made in the realm of human rights everywhere in the world are put into jeapordy when China terrorizes its own people with impunity and facilitates state sponsored terror in place like Burma or Sudan.
Yes China don't have the most clean record on human right but they have been approved a lot lately. As for Burma and Sudan those country problems are their own matter. China have nothing to do with it
Burma is the way it is because of Chinese backing of the current regime. China is the biggest supplier of arm s sudan. China provided arms to Sudan even after an arms embargo (of which they were a signitor) came into effect.
Burma is the way it is because their own government fail them. China is only trading with them not backing the regime. U.S and it's allies wanted to sanction the country which does nothing but hurt the people more, that is why India and China are opposites to the sanction. The Burma regime been oppressing their own people for years now that they have oil and gas all the country are suddenly interested in their affairs.
look it up in 1984 i believe when the Burma regime shoot a lot of there people but not one "free country" said anything. China is not supporting the regime. i can't help it if you bent on believe China is Evil. but facts are facts.
As for Sudan what they're doing is evil but they are entitle to their own rights to rule their country the way they see fit, even if it is wrong. China sold those arm to Sudan because the U.S and it's allies set those arm embargo not the rest of the world. China did nothing illegal or encourage any type of killing.
Oblivously form better sources than you. I can not help it if you are bent on justifying state sponsored terrorsim.
As for my sources? I doubt you asked that question in earnest but we can easily point to the wealth of knowledge in UN reports, NGO reports, primary sources, and my own meandering experience.
BTW you can criticize China all you want but they are not the most hated people on Earth. Also they are not the most human right abuser in the world. China is uphold Human rights and encouraging it's people to do so. But this fact is never realize by the so call "free" counry.
You are also masquerading with statements like "I can think of trying to acknowledge that the first world might be not totally right in pillaging the third world resources if you acknowledge that third world leaders are guilty"
It shows so much the relation of power existing between these populations.
Third world leaders could stand against the first world? How? Any attempt has been, is and will destroyed. It is a matter of empowering a people here and the Western world is not for negociating
Because between equals, you have to deal with situation of divergence of interests and pay the price of it. When discussing with inferiors, you are warranted that your best interests will prevail. Current example: food shortage.
Media: yes, as soon as China has built a media network of similar size as the western one, Chinese bloggers will be allowed to do whatever they want because they will be as irrelevant as they are in the Western world.
As you keep dismissing my points, the discussion cant advance.
Never said that two wrongs makes a right.
All I stated is the fact that contrary to what is claimed in the western world, colonization, land spolation and stuff are not dealt with like being a wrong.
The western world has been benefiting from the socalled infringements of human rights. You can remove China from the equation. It does not intervene.
Now that is the point. The Western world has built itself on these infringements and still perpetuate thanks to these infringements. By factuality, these infringements have never been a wrong. They have been sold as wrong. I'll explain why.
If really conceived as a wrong, they would be dealt with as wrong, that is with the necessity of correcting them. But they are not.
If it was a wrong for the western world, peoples grieving for their wrong would not have such a hard time to get their point
So now why it is sold this way? Again the western tradition says it: "what you gain through wars, you can lose through wars, so declare peace"
The West has so benefited from these infringements they want no other to mimick their ways. Most people in the West do not care about the peoples they crushed. What they care about is not be crushed, not to be on the receiving end. That is the way it is.
That is how you wont see many demonstrations for Lakotas, you wont see many demonstration
for Lakota, for food riots etc... People in the West dont care about those peoples, they are irrelevant on the world stage. They are scared by China because they fear that one day, they might be on the receiving end instead of being on the dealing end. This is all the current issue here. Nothing else.
You are advocating murder and terror, of course I keep dismissing your point. Blah, blah, blah we can have freedom because of our colonial past. The classic third world thug mantra.
Your answers made me laugh. You dont seem to be committed to the discussion because you keep confusing your own words with mine.
Example:
You stated that supposedly you are concerned with self determination. I underlined one consequence of the Western tradition, with effects of current state of sovereignty, giving examples.
You came back arguing "yes but at they do not shoot on people" I underlined that it was a consequence of affluence (and the way it was built in the western world)
And now, you say that supposedly I am the one who is not concerned with sovereignty and affluency is only what matters.
You are talking about yourself. If indeed, you were concerned with sovereignty, you will not have pushed aside what happened in Europe with a remark based on affluency.
Etc... Because actually I answered to your points already. You simply dismissed them.
You asked for Indians looking actively for independence: Lakota maybe? You came with Indians are not united...
under a "dignified" leader. But what is that? Indians are several peoples. They do not need to be united under the banner of a leader to get their right to self determination respected.
Murder bloggers and stuff: I pointed out the missing very important part of the stuff.
Bloggers are harmless when it comes to many, many topics in the Western world.
A power has nothing to fear from this kind of freedom of speech.
What is the greatest (and maybe only achievement) of blogging? Getting a president to impeachment procedure because of a fellatio. That is it. But on more serious topics, one has to recognize that freedom of speech is not subsersive in the West, getting us back to the point you consistently failed to take into account: a power will only try to suppress/eliminate what is perceived a threat to it.
And blogging, YT, etc... are certainly not a threat.
You justify China's Human Rights record, genocide, the murder of journalist, the suppression of workers rights and safety with what other nations have done and because prosperity is more important.
There is something so fundamentally wrong with that, that it undermines your other points.
Blogger and other parts of the internet provide the only viable alternitive to corporate or state controled media.
So because journalists are harmful to the CCP hold on power then it is justifiable to beat them to death in the streets?
You can laugh as much as you want all the way to whatever branch of the Bank of China that you go to. The Chinese Regime has turned modern China into same kind of monster as past colonial powers like Japan.
It very shady for you to twist my words like this. All I that I mean to say is that you can not compare the situation in Tibet with that of the Native Americans. A situation that you clearly have no clue about. Furthermore it is irrelevant and all you succeed in by harping on it is showing that in China two wrong make a right
"i don't have a clue about native American" just ask yourself how do you feel if you were a Native American; when every year millions of American celebrate the death of native American culture and remind them for what the "white people" did to them. Happy Thanksgiving Day.
I dismiss most of your statements because you seek to justify murder, genocide, and hate by simply point to other countries that have done/do the same thing. I guess two wrongs make a right in China.
A countries sovereignty is not absolute when it engages in criminal activity against its own people. We see the legal precedent in Chile and Argentina.
Furthermore all peoples have the right to self determination and more importantly to be free of violence and genocide.
I can find a bunch of videos showing CCP kills people...Honestly I think I can find more than you. But What's it related to Olympic and territory of China?! pro-Tibetan terrorists are actually ANTI-CHINESE RACISTS that hate all Chinese and whole China! If you hate CCP, then fight against it. Don't Fucking fight against WHOLE CHINESE and China! Olympic belongs to China and all Chinese including Chinese Democracy Activists such as HU JIA. Stop your hypocrisy!
For someone supposedly so in the human rights, you talk with no caution.
"Most important people are not being murdered in the street like we see so often in China."
Woooo... Images from China inside is that easy to get? If so, why the Western media broadcast events taking place in Nepal? Because they were lacking films.
Again a delicate issue like human rights require cautiousness, not broad claims.
Quebec was thoughtfully dealt with. Contrary to your claims, referenda were hold only when the outcome was secure. Quebec was poured with foreigners who learnt english and did not want to bother to learn french to fit into Quebec society. Getting them to vote helped the outcome.
Even if my comments no longer show to me, I already answered to this point.
Free speech and vote have no longer a subversive property in the Western world and then a power has no interest in suppressing them.
You said that I support CCP government. Actually you and all the others who cast unshamedly human rights in the fray to further other vested rights are the best support to this government. You get the Chinese people to support this government because of your clearly exposed double standards. Everyone sees that you and others do not care a hoot about human rights and see only in them a leverage to prevent a rival on the international scene from rising.
And isnt that the crux of the CCP's justification for tyranny. Most of us who are raising our voices care very deeply for the rights and safety of our fellow human beings.
I guess we are lucky to have the CCP thugs to teach us that murder and kidnapping are justified as long as some other country did it first.
What you fail to realize is this is why many of us get so very very angry with our own government for human rights violations, because it lowers the standard for evil doers elsewhere.
So stability and affluence are more important than the rights of a nations people. Well dont you worry I am sure that China will murder and intimidate its way into prosperity sometime soon.
That statement is underhanded. You know just as well as i do that reporters were immediately kicked out of Tibet when the riots broke out.
And for the record the news sources that I read most often acknowledge that stock photos are from Nepal. Which BTW has agree to viciously crack down on demonstrators at China's Request.
Is this really the the way that you want the world to view China. As a nation where no one cares who gets hurt or what people get trampled on as long as you are making money?
Thats the thinking we are battling in our countries. Its high time you step up and at least do the same in yours.
of course we care about human rights. it is immoral not to care about another human being. but u have to remember most of the Chinese population is living under a dollar a day life style. it is very unethical for them to live this way while the west get to enjoy a modern life.
I can admit that it is unethical for the first world to benefit from pilaging the resources of developing nations, if you can admit that the first world could not do it without the help of Third world leaders.
The CCP would like you o believe that everything that sucks in China is the West fault.
you are missing my point. i am not blaming what the west did in the past. i just saying that poor people care more about survive more than freedom. It is human nature.
Freedom and development are not mutually exclusive. Infact I would argue that the only reason to need to usher in developement through state sponsored terror is to purposely exclude whole populations of a nation from the benefits of development.
do you have any proves of your statement "development through state sponsored terror is to purposely exclude whole populations of a nation from the benefits of development".
Yor analysis of the situation is embarrassing. Actually, lets be straight on that: the US and other countries have been benefiting a lot from their falsely called past actions in matter of land grabbing and (cultural or not) genocides. Why is your analysis embarrassing? You expect from others (here China) to succeed in something your own group failed to do. Here China should find another way knowingly whereas countries like the US could keep lecturing without ever reforming or amending.
Your support of a regime of thugs is embarrassing. The fact that as long as China is prospering and everyone is making money, Chinese people don't care what their government does, now that is embarrassing.
You bitch and moan about colonialism and the Japanese occupation, but it is so very clear that China has become the same monster that it claims other countries are.
yes we do care about the Chinese government that is why we have a lot of students studying outside of China to develop a better a country. by the way what ever china does in Tibet is an internal affair. we don't invade countries for oils.
Self determination of peoples? I dunno if you are aware of, but currently in Europe, there is a process called EU building. This process bulldozes the concept of national sovereignty and self determination of peoples.
Dutsch and Frenc referenda were ignored to stay the course and ultimately, as no European people (as a single entity) exists, it will destroy the very concept of a sovereignty based on self determination of a people.
Considering that EU governments are not murdering people in the street to going about developing the EU, no I am not preticularly concerned about that.
Self-determination? You have seen millions and millions of Chinese, who know far more than you on their own country's history and Tibetan history, uniting together to fight with separatists and supporting government's action, but have you ever showed any respect for their voices (which come from deep love for their country instead of mere government) and human rights?
United Nations Charter article 2 (section 7) states that "nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state". Self-determination? That must be under domestic juristiction! Sovereignty comes first. When recently Native Americans say they want independence from US, and Quebec say too from Canada, have you said any word, ONE WORD, about that?
I dont see Native Americans asking for independence you uneducated git! They have legitimate complaints but currently of of thier demands is not independence considering that most reservations are thier own SOVEREIGN nations.
Plus Quebec has had numerous referendum regarding independence. Most important people are not being murdered in the street like we see so often in China.
As someone who lived next to the Navajo nation for over 4 years and as someone who has participated in demonstrations to support Native rights, I am certain that there is no significant support for indipendence amongst Native Americans.
Find me one example of a Native community that is actively seeking independence from the US?
Plus you also fail to consider the level of dependency put on Indians in the US.
Being an Indian is a status determined by the US government through a blood quantum,then a racial approach of membership.
Third, Indians looking for independence are getting very little help and support worldwide. Not much media circus and demonstration for them. Easy to check this through YT: comparing the number of vids posted for Tibet and Lakota is efficient.
Native Americans are fewer in number and mostly seek to exert their current rights under the reservation system. They also lack a uniting and dignified leader such as the Dali Lama to bring thier case to the world stage. Its a shame, but thats the current reality.
But I guess that means every other government have the right to go out and murder and arrest every blogger, journalist, or dissident they can get their hands on.
the Dalai Lama is not that holy and peaceful as you think. He kill more Tibetan than the Chinese . He is also a pro-Nazi lover. look up their history. The Dalai Lama yellow rope sect is losing their power in Tibet. Right now the black hat sect is winning because China back them up. it is a Tibetan war over who get to control Lhasa.
Apparently, you didn't seize our point. Before you talk about other countries' problems, you should first examine your own countries' human rights record. One-sided attack on China's human right problem, will only debase your credibility of concern for human rights. Instead, it only shows you have hostility to both communist government and China. Have you ever said something about Iraq war on youtube which led to over 1 million civilian death and 5 million homeless refugees?
Hereticxxii, Keep up the good work. It's a shame that these Chinese students, studying in the west, don't have more of an initiative to search out the facts concerning their own country. That they continue to 'pull the party line'. I'm sad that, currently, have all the resources in the world, yet they choose to ignore fact. When you all graduate and go home you will be under big brother's thumb again. You wont have information at your fingertips. You do your country people a huge disservice.
you guys have the right to discuss china with a group of people with the same western world view. but please do not argue this with chinese people, because you cannot speak chinese, you cannot use chopsticks, you have never lived in china, you have never read laozi, you do not know what the spirit of chinese new year, dragon boat festival or mid autumn day, and you can never know the meaning of 一心一意
Happen to eat with chopsticks everyday. I speak a respectable amount of both Japanese and Korean. I have seen the cherry blossoms of Asia. I have been to China for the Chinese New Year. I happen to like China and the Chinese people.
Most importantly, like anyone else outside of China I have open and free access to the information out there.
You are suggesting that a disregard for human rights is part of the Chinese spirit. That is simply not true.
Historical validity of sovereignty of course is very important for us to understand the whole issue! Since Tibet is proved to be a part of China, then the mobs' claim of independence doesn't stand. So what they did is not only against the CCP government, but also against the country. What do you think a government would/should do facing this kind of violent separation?
The separatists are saying that Tibet is not a part of China, and China should get out of Tibet. Do you think this is a violation of the country or merely the government? The mobs killed many ethnic Hans in the riot, and set fire to Hans' stores and five girls were burnt to death (including a Tibetan girl). Do you think the violence was targeted at the CCP government? Not the innocent ordinary civilians?
Simply looking at the demands of the government in exile shows that Tibetians seek "meaningful autonomy" not independence. The violence that you and other Chinese are happy to exaggerate is a direct result of long standing government policies in Tibet and they are therefore to blame.
All peoples have a right to self-determination, to be free of cultural genocide, and to participate in their government and civil society.
We are exaggerating the violence of Tibetan separatists? Come on! Have a look at those videos, have a look at those names who are victims of the riot and will never come back to us again!
How much do you know about the points of the so-called "meaningful autonomy" by Dalai Lama, and "independence" by Tibetan Youth Congress? The society under Dalai's rule was serfdom and slavery, as a result of no separation of politics and religion, don't you know that? Do you think arm cutting, eye gouging and live human skin peeling are protecting human rights?
The occupation of Tibet was an act born from the greed, fear, and hate found in CCP sponsored nationalism. If you want to claim that the invasion of Tibet was an benevolent act of liberation, then you are a simply a liar or worse.
Actually, the opposition to the pro-Tibetan independence was started by Chinese students who do their study outside China. They gathered information from both China and so-called democracies. They proved western media's fabrication of the story with hardcore facts. But those who speak for "free Tibet" failed to do so in the same way. Don't you think this is not enough to support their claims that the mobs should be responsible for the riot?
What facts?! All we have seen is wild accusations of CIA conspiracies, and false and largely irrelevant appeals to the historical validity to the Chinese occupation of Tibet.
I could clearly care less about Chinese students' displays of Chinese Nationalism. In my country there are jackasses who demonstrate in support of the Iraq war. Public displays of Chinese Nationalism do nothing to undermine the fact that the Chinese government has engaged in a policy of cultural genocide in Tibet.
Show us the statistic data to prove this, groundless claim cannot support that Tibetan majority are non-Tibetans. I can give you a number, that based on 2000 census, 92.8% of the population in Tibet Autonomous Region are Tibetans. (source from wikipedia "Tibet")
That same article points out 15% decline in the Tibetian population since 1959 according to the PRC's own numbers.
That %92.8 is from a government that will imprison or deport reporters who try to even get statistics about mining accidents, for example.
Finally, going about cultural genocide is completely within character for the PRC, all other things considered. We have seen the same in Eastern Turkmenistan and Inner Mongolia. Or take a look at how North Korean refugees are treated
No, lambchop, its not selective. It is not right when Europe or America does it, and it is not right when CCP thugs do it.
Is that your arguement! Its ok for the CCP to terrorize its own people just because other countries do the same thing?! Two wrongs dont make a right. and it is that attitude that lets crap like that that lets governments around the world feel like they can do such things with impunity
Have you count the population fled to India and Nepal? Have you count the population moved to other parts of China? Everybody in China knows the national sensus is much more reliable than the estimated number?
Further more, why don't you mention a little bit about how did American whites treat their thanks-giving Indians and aboriginals?
Anyway, all these discussion will not deny the fact that Tibet is a part of China, and what the Tibetan splitters are doing is violent separation.
The people that have fled or migrated fro Tibet do not account for the population gap, especially when one considers that Tibetians have been exempt from the "one child" policy. Any statistics from the CCP government are worthless.
We are not talking about Native Americans (Indians is an ignorant term). But seeing as though I live for 4 years next to a Navajo reservation I have a lot to say about the matter. Namely that US government has a history of usurping the land of what is now the USA from the Native Americans through genocide.
Are you saying that the Chinese government should do what ever it wants to its own people and other countries, just because other countries have done equally horrible things
i would hope that you, like me, would try to hold own countries accountable for how they treat not only thier own people but also the people of other nations.
As someone that has taken a rock to the head while demonstrating against my own government's policies i am extremely disappointed with your acceptance of the greedy, hateful, bloodthristy, violent, and tyrannical tactics of the CCP.
Every arguement that you have posted here is merely a distraction from China's dismal human right record.
China's media is bias toward the Chinese regime. If the media does not agree with the communist party opinion, it is banned from reporting. Chinese people cannot say the western media is bias, when they don't even know what it is to have a free press.
There is a strong case that just because one can cherry pick bad reporting from western media hardly makes the genocide in Tibet a fabrication.
I would be lying if I said the western media is not bias, but its does have a free flow of information and we dont (usually) make a habit of murdering, jailing, or intimadating journals into saying what the government wants to hear.
I think it is cute that there are many pro-CCP accounts that are only a week or two old, such as your account.
Yes, this account is new, so what? Just because I think you didn't prove your point with solid facts, then I'm a pro-CCP Chinese? Huh, is this your way of debating?
I would again point to the fact that I have not set out to prove that the Western media is not biased. I think I have pointed out that it is far more viable place to get a picture of what is going on in China. In a game of which is more credible, the state controlled PRC media loses hands down.
I have no idea if you are pro-CCP but by playing into the CCP-sponsored nationalism (as far as I can tell this is the only thing you have used your NEW account to do) you are certainly acting like you are.
Did I play into the CCP-sponsored nationalism? My country is under attack by some prejudiced guys without proof. Why can't I defend for my country and justice? You are from the US and you defend for your media, can I say you are a ideology-oriented journalist, follow your logic?
AGAIN I am not seeking to defend western media. I am however clearly attacking the idea that the state sponsored terrorism that we see in Tibet is being made up out of thin air by a prejudiced media.
More importantly I seek to point out that what we are seeing in Tibet is completely within character for the Chinese government.
As for proof we have years and years of documentation and data from governmental and NGO groups.
The CCP has a vested interest in framing any issue where there is criticism of the Chinese government as an attack on the Chinese people. Statements like "My country is under attack" clearly promote the idea showing support for the human rights of the Chinese people are irresponsible and just plain wrong. I should know my government has been known to do the same thing more often than not.
The ones under attack are the thugs at the top that
The point is, there are violations of human rights in every country on the planet; Every country contributes a portion to global environment problems and China is not the biggest share holder.
Whereas, why are so many people over the world blame all these problems only for China!
And please do not forget, China is still a developing country. See for yourself how well other developing countries are doing right now.
You call this not discrimination? Not bias?
MakVoiceofChinaHeard 3 years ago 2
brainwashed freak!
mandopride25 3 years ago
Check the wikipedia press freedom list America is at the bottom only beat by China. I don't condone the Chinese violence or censorship but if you think western media is free your moronic.
hyperharajuku 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Grow a pair.
Chinese Americans for a Free Tibet!
epsilonwolf 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
(Great video )
There is no free media in China. students from the
Chinese univeristy whose students were crushed by the tanks at
Taniamen square are not aware of its history! A chinese editor
was house arrested for questioning its govt's approach.
the Chinese are Brainwashed!
Koreaisbest 3 years ago
Back again: you are the relative moralitivist. Please assume what you are.
I have chronology of events for me.
Since the beginning, you claim that the actions of the West are the past evading that these actions are main actors in the West situation.
As you are unable to face it, you are the one supporting the Chinese government. Not me.
All you have done since the beginning, is closing the door: " We have done this in the past. It has helped us greatly in building our society prosperity...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
but you the others, dont do as we have done"
"You have to achieve the same but without doing as we have done"
Latter, you even avowed you have no clue to solve the issue in the third world.
So again, you demand from China what you fail to demand from your own side.
A very supportive attitude to China government.
You are absolutely not interested in human rights. You are interested in power and domination.
Your closing door attitude is the best support to the Chinese government.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Because of this kind of attitude, millions of Chinese are flocking behind their government. Your relentless failure to point out the real issue of the way the Western world has achieved what it has is the best support.
Your washing hand attitude completes that.
As long as you will fail to demand as much from your side as you demand from China, please drop down the label of the human rights because obviously they are just a pretext for you.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Stupid guy!
icewine000000 3 years ago
My goal is to face reality as it is.
It is no China specific.
Up to now, you keep failing to integrate any of my comments.
I underline the powerlessness of freedom of speech in the Western world to inflect on the course of a policy. One example among many in this comment section.
You show you cant integrate this fact in your way of reasoning.
You are the one backing up China's current government by evading this question. Not me.
Obviously, China is on the path to build a very...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
similar government as in the West.
That is what you fear. You dont care about human rights and stuff. Human rights for you and your ilk are just a weapon to further your domination agenda. You are okay with domination as long as you are the dominant.
That is why you keep harping on China using human rights as their weak point.
You dont care if freedom of speech is useless in the western world because you agree with the current social order and relish the opportunity of denouncing it...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
while perfectling knowing that this order will not be endangered because freedom of speech is no longer subversive.
You dont care about food riots and stuff. In this convo, you took the dominant stance on the third world "I can consider to agree maybe that etc..." It all depends on your good will. You are a power hungry one.
That is all. Please get out of the human rights stuff. Because you dont care human rights. You dont care universality. You dont care about humanity.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You care about domination. You care about power. Speak your mind as it is. Do not travest it.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
And you continue to try and frame critics of China as advocates of Western Crimes. If you are being sincere, you can keep your relativism. You know full well that resources available to those who advocate for human right and right now is the time to press China.
The rising price of food and its effect on the worlds most vulnerable? If you actually have an effect suggestion on how to tackle that, lets hear it. That would be far more productive than using it to excuse the CCP.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Your view of human rights as a western construct and weapon of oppression, has merit, however it is the very same cover that most of the third world's worst criminals have used for murder, genocide, and the like, especially in former colonies.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
You speak of facing reality as it is. I assume that you mean facing the reality that most of human history and especially the rise and domination of the West is paved in blood. It is unacceptable that humanity should carry on in this way. You hint that human rights are only achieve after prosperity, when free speech is nullified.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
This is a great error. As one it presumes that Prosperity and human rights are naturally at odds with eachother. This is what a dominant class has a vested interest in believing.
But as we are seeing in places like Africa and South America, this not the case.
Are we biased against China? Only if you believe that you can only do one thing at a time. In a globalized world those who can express free speech have an obligation to speak out when our brothers and sisters can not.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
More and more with technology this is becoming mostly a matter of helping spread primary sources.
I severely doubt your sincerity as your position seeks to justify the crimes of the Chinese Regime.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Sorry to repeat over and over again but you are the one justifying terror by refusing to address the issues in the West.
All you do is attacking China and evading the consequences of the behaviour of countries like the US or others.
That is where your condoning begins. Again, your failure to address the problem and draw the needed consequences is the issue.
It is classical in democracy to reject blame on others but human rights are serious stuff
All you have been doing here "Hey, we...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
have been benefiting a lot from infringing human rights and we dont want others to benefit as we have"
That is all what your words and actions are telling.
You want China and other countries to respect the human rights whereas the situation of the West is the consequence of major infringements of these rights.
So please dont try to shift the burden of responsibility here on me: you are the one supporting this stuff by your relentless failure to address the problem.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Chinese are human beings and they have reality on their side.
Anyone can see the West's situation and the way this situation was achieved and is maintained.
That is the issue. Dont demand from others they implement your vision of society, implement it at home first.
Currently, you are simply using human rights to further your imperialistic taste.
You point out deviances in a country like China without ever pointing out the issue in other countries and addressing them.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I clearly denounce terror from any source. I have the integrity to denounce the state sponsored terror of my own government.
You on the other hand look at the state sponsored terrorism in China and justify it with more terror.
It is oblivous that your goal is to confuse the issue during a time when China is in the spotlight. Lame.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
i never said i support China cause, i just point out that everything China done the western countries did it too. you can't criticize China if your own country is doing the same thing, it just make your statement lame. even if you are a self proclaim righteous person who denounce your own government.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago 3
There is no western media bias against China. The Chinese people have a bias against truth.
Youtube can't even be viewed in China, because the Chinese people have allowed, even encouraged, such a tyrannical regime to take hold.
RonPauladvocate 3 years ago
What a silly thing to say with the current situation in the US!
Lets see: in the US, it is widely professed that a bad government must be overthrown.
What a president who does not care about the Constitution, is consistently try to the suppress US citizens rights, mocking US casualties and stuff?
So what? Impeached? Nope.
As to truth, it is a long time since the media in democracies have dropped the ball of reporting truth.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I agree that China has human right problems. Unfortunately all countries do. How does reiterating this have anything to do with the Western media being biased against China? You are doing exactly what George Bush is doing when confonted with problems in Iraq, and that is to divert the attention of the people by focusing on something completely irrelavant.
PS: There is youtube in China you moron, I'm taking my vacation here right now.
PPS: That suit over a Chinese Tangzhuang make you look fat.
my1021 3 years ago
Chinese officals decided that youtube would be banned after an incident where a new anchor confronted her husband with his cheating on TV. The video make it around via youtube. Officials stated that Youtube would be replaced with an offical state controled site where videos must live up to a "strict socialist moral code"
P.S. Lick my fucking balls.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Explain then, how the hell am I using it? I am in Shanghai right now. Even if yoube is banned, what does that have to do with the WESTERN MEDIA BEING BIASED? answer my damn question. Go on anti-cnn you will find TONS of evidences of the Western media's bias towards China.
PS since you decided on personal attacks: I will not lick your fucking balls and nor will any woman who'd prefer to lick the balls a pig rolling around in shit over your balls you fuckin fat ugly fuck.
my1021 3 years ago
"Freedom, respect for the dignity of all peoples, and justice are not mutually exclusive to development and prosperity.
SHAME on you and others for suggesting otherwise."
Yet that is what the study of a place like the US suggests.
Has the creation and the developpment of the US benefited the in groups( US citizens)? Yes, it has. It is a common feature of oppression. Oppression benefits the oppressors.
Now, lets see this in regard of human rights.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Human rights has it that rights are not limited to in group members.
Can this be checked through US history? Hardly. On the contrary, somebody coming with the thesis that the selective infringements of these said rights of certain populations is what has helped to entitle the ingroups with prerogatives.
Human rights are supposed to be grounded in universality. Yet again, knowing US citizens shows that there is a deep sense of tribalism in this population.There are americans and the others.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Example: criticism on the Iraq wars often only rely on the US casualties. US people say they are concerned with the 4000+ Americans who died there. They dont care about the 1 M+ Iraqis who died. They cant relate to these guys. Because they are not Americans.
So again, you are hiding from the facts: all the ideas, principles and stuff... you keep hammering are a failure at home(the US and stuff) Why should other countries adopt failing ideas?
Implement them in your homeland, get them to...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
be real in your nation.
But again, I doubt it is your goal. Because as I underlined, in your eyes, China is first guilty on violence on what is perceived on its people. An incomfortable difference because in the west, the advancement has been done at the expense of other peoples, that is why for example ideas like racism has been so successful in the West. Because they correspond with a direct need of the expanding population.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I fail to see how my views on China are equated with condoning the actions and situations that you meantioned.
Congratz you have a firm grip on the Human Rights situation in the west, albeit through a biased lens of your own. While that may serve to scare off some critics of China, it hardly excuses genocide, anywhere, by anyone, at anytime
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Shame on you for justifying terror. All you have proven is that China only cares about profit and development no matter who has to get bulldozed over in the process.
Thats lame.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
you are not the ccp. you are just looking at things from a short-term perspective. china can't just suddenly transform their system. look at what happened to russia in the early 90's. south east asian countries have their own ways to manage their nations and succeeding at doing so without the pressures from paternalistic and self-righteous attitudes of the west (ie. asian economic tigers).
albobear 3 years ago 2
genocide? if i remember correctly, americans purposefully marginalized native indians from their lands and wiped out a significant portion of their population. sure china have human rights violations, but so do other nations out there. i mean look at guantanamo bay... somehow you think its justified for americans to hurt others in name of "democracy"? fundamentally this is not a discussion about human rights, but rather is the age-old battle between ideologies of liberal democracy and socialism.
albobear 3 years ago 3
No I do not think guantanemo bay is justified in the name of democracy or imperialism, or whatever they are calling it these days. How dare you equate supporting human rights in China with advocating for the human rights abuses at Guantanemo. Shame on you.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Shame on me? That's all you can say when somebody has a credible argument? China is in a transitionary phase therefore a developing nation. Modernized countries such as the USA have had that opportunity to go through such transitions while China is still developing. More like shame on you for your ignorance and your monolithic view on politics.
albobear 3 years ago 6
I agree with aldobear. First of all, the "Shame on you" comment is completely unnecessary. China is still developing. It is unfair to not give it a chance. Have we forgotten so quickly about the Kent State shootings? We don't have the best human rights record out there. Who are we to tell others about morals and human rights when we have violated them repeatedly and downplayed them to the best of our abilities.
tcwd 3 years ago
I couldn't of put it better myself albobear.
hyperharajuku 3 years ago
Stop the Chinese murderers!
RonPauladvocate 3 years ago
Ron Paul is a non interventionist. Stop destroying the precepts of your favourite politicial.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
The OG are in China. Good. Hey, but a country needs to have achieved world standards to welcome the OGs. Opppps, me thinks that countries where people see their human rights infringed on a daily basis wont never get the light shed on them because they cant welcome this sports events. Too bad for them. Their human rights will have to wait.
As to the scam of bringing the West to "its" human rights task, keep it for the gullible.
It will never happen. But still please feel free and China will..
TheCZMan 3 years ago
follow. The West have paved the path. China is not hitting its own shortcomings, China is hitting the West own shortcomings. Maybe time for you to grow up and stop claiming that the past is not an excuse for the present. The present is a continuation of the past. That is harsh but that is the way it is.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
"Human rights and democracy are a CIA conspiracy or a western construct or what ever" That is the anathem of two bit third dictators for decades. Its too bad you have bought it hook line and sinker.
You english changes from time to time. I believe there are multiple people using this account...
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
As I said earlier, currently, China biggest issue is not oppression, it is oppression of its own people. This feature is what makes many westerners uncomfortable. Because in the west, advancement was made at the expense of other peoples. Peoples were stripped from their human rights to give entitlements ot western peoples. This is what happened. China is advancing through oppression of its own people. Again that is the main point. This guy is at it again.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
That is the disturbing point for most of westerners. Racism is a core engine in the Western world: oppress other races to get benefits, do not oppress your own race.
China is not racist, China is xenophobic. China has to advance in modernity and start ending oppression on its own race to advance through oppression of another race.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Freedom, respect for the dignity of all peoples, and justice are not mutually exclusive to development and prosperity.
SHAME on you and others for suggesting otherwise.
What you are neglecting is the fact that people in my society are starting to wake up to the enviromental costs and human costs of our model of development.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Youtube cannot be viewed in China! The Chinese nationalists have no interest in the truth, only their own race!
RonPauladvocate 3 years ago
Thinking that the Western media conveys truth is somehow a bit how to say silly.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Stop the Chinese murderers!
RonPauladvocate 3 years ago
You keep dismissing the facts I mentioned because you prefer to hide behind the idea that my words here can speak louder than the actions by the Western world.
The West has paved the path. China is not responsible for this. As the West is unwilling to mend his past errors or unable to do, why should China be willing or able to do such a thing?
You say that you demand from your own nation. It is wrong. You demand more from China than from your own nation.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
If you want to be fair to China, keep demanding what you are demanding from your nation and in the same useless, meaningless, inefficient way, quick to find excuses, quick to evade real points, quick to point out others' doings while neglecting your own nation's doings.
The past is the past and the present will be the past.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You however seek to distract people with the human rights abuses of their own so that you can advocate state sponsored terror.
The time to take the US to task will be soon and I am sure that there will be an equal number of slack-jacked patriots beating thier nationalistic drums like monkeys.
Any way you cut it, The Chinese regime is guilty of using terror against its own people and crimes against humanity.
People like you do not love thier country, they advocate for terror.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Stop using what the West has done to justify state terror. Its lame.
The Chinese government is acting like just another gang of capitalist thugs.
Actually agree about taking the west to task for its human rights failures, but the olympics are in China and the time to highlight the Chinese Regime's state sponsored terror is now.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Dont put your words in my mouth. You are the one when facing the issue of sovereignty being tramped on in Europe at saying stuff like "at least the government does not shoot on the populace" Not me.
So if you think that people relying on this kind of argumentation to hide an infringement of a principle are tyrants/fascists, you are what you think you are.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You main issue in all the discussion is that you do not demand from your own side what you demand from China.
You want freedom of speech in China? Implement it in your world, not the current useless, inefficient scam that pretends to be freedom of speech.
You want to prove that land grabbing is irrelevant in the quest for prosperity? Bring back the Europeans to Europe etc...
You favour people's sovereignty? Allow the negroes to empower themselves.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Stop preaching with words. Start to preach by the example. Show that the Western world was wrong.
Because you know, China is doing nothing new. China is following the path of the Western world. So reform yourself before asking from others, less fortunate, to reform themselves.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Because the current reign of terror that the Chinese regime is engages in right now make even the most vile days in Iraq look like happy funtime land. Seriously China is the only country that actually makes up look good anymore.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
I do demand it from my own side. You are a terror-advocate
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
I do demand it from my own nation. Apparently you missed that part when you combed my videos.
Preach by example. Thats the rub. All of the meager advances that we have made in the realm of human rights everywhere in the world are put into jeapordy when China terrorizes its own people with impunity and facilitates state sponsored terror in place like Burma or Sudan.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Yes China don't have the most clean record on human right but they have been approved a lot lately. As for Burma and Sudan those country problems are their own matter. China have nothing to do with it
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
Burma is the way it is because of Chinese backing of the current regime. China is the biggest supplier of arm s sudan. China provided arms to Sudan even after an arms embargo (of which they were a signitor) came into effect.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Burma is the way it is because their own government fail them. China is only trading with them not backing the regime. U.S and it's allies wanted to sanction the country which does nothing but hurt the people more, that is why India and China are opposites to the sanction. The Burma regime been oppressing their own people for years now that they have oil and gas all the country are suddenly interested in their affairs.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
You are simply a liar. The facist regime in Burma is only still there due to Chinese support. Birds of a feather flock togather they say.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
look it up in 1984 i believe when the Burma regime shoot a lot of there people but not one "free country" said anything. China is not supporting the regime. i can't help it if you bent on believe China is Evil. but facts are facts.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
As for Sudan what they're doing is evil but they are entitle to their own rights to rule their country the way they see fit, even if it is wrong. China sold those arm to Sudan because the U.S and it's allies set those arm embargo not the rest of the world. China did nothing illegal or encourage any type of killing.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
China is a signatory to those embargos. China knew damned well what that regime would do with those weapons. China did something morally bankraupt.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
where did you get your source from CNN or BBC.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
Oblivously form better sources than you. I can not help it if you are bent on justifying state sponsored terrorsim.
As for my sources? I doubt you asked that question in earnest but we can easily point to the wealth of knowledge in UN reports, NGO reports, primary sources, and my own meandering experience.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
BTW you can criticize China all you want but they are not the most hated people on Earth. Also they are not the most human right abuser in the world. China is uphold Human rights and encouraging it's people to do so. But this fact is never realize by the so call "free" counry.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
You are also masquerading with statements like "I can think of trying to acknowledge that the first world might be not totally right in pillaging the third world resources if you acknowledge that third world leaders are guilty"
It shows so much the relation of power existing between these populations.
Third world leaders could stand against the first world? How? Any attempt has been, is and will destroyed. It is a matter of empowering a people here and the Western world is not for negociating
TheCZMan 3 years ago
with equals but with inferiors.
Because between equals, you have to deal with situation of divergence of interests and pay the price of it. When discussing with inferiors, you are warranted that your best interests will prevail. Current example: food shortage.
Media: yes, as soon as China has built a media network of similar size as the western one, Chinese bloggers will be allowed to do whatever they want because they will be as irrelevant as they are in the Western world.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I am not buying it for a second. That is the mantra of tyrrants, facists, and jackasses around the world: prosperity first, then freedom.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
As you keep dismissing my points, the discussion cant advance.
Never said that two wrongs makes a right.
All I stated is the fact that contrary to what is claimed in the western world, colonization, land spolation and stuff are not dealt with like being a wrong.
The western world has been benefiting from the socalled infringements of human rights. You can remove China from the equation. It does not intervene.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Now that is the point. The Western world has built itself on these infringements and still perpetuate thanks to these infringements. By factuality, these infringements have never been a wrong. They have been sold as wrong. I'll explain why.
If really conceived as a wrong, they would be dealt with as wrong, that is with the necessity of correcting them. But they are not.
If it was a wrong for the western world, peoples grieving for their wrong would not have such a hard time to get their point
TheCZMan 3 years ago
accross.
So now why it is sold this way? Again the western tradition says it: "what you gain through wars, you can lose through wars, so declare peace"
The West has so benefited from these infringements they want no other to mimick their ways. Most people in the West do not care about the peoples they crushed. What they care about is not be crushed, not to be on the receiving end. That is the way it is.
That is how you wont see many demonstrations for Lakotas, you wont see many demonstration
TheCZMan 3 years ago
for Lakota, for food riots etc... People in the West dont care about those peoples, they are irrelevant on the world stage. They are scared by China because they fear that one day, they might be on the receiving end instead of being on the dealing end. This is all the current issue here. Nothing else.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
That is certainly what the CCP likes to say in its propaganda.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
you replace the word west with china I would say that you havee a fairly accurate discription.
Facism is ok, because the west did it first.
Lame fucking sauce.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
You are advocating murder and terror, of course I keep dismissing your point. Blah, blah, blah we can have freedom because of our colonial past. The classic third world thug mantra.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
If you leave this to me to decide, there is my answer
1) One CHINA! Tibet belongs to China
2) Any human who is NOT MENTALLY DAMAGED should support Olympic
3) I HATE CCP very much...as much as I hate pro-Tibetan terrorists.
classicleon 3 years ago
Your answers made me laugh. You dont seem to be committed to the discussion because you keep confusing your own words with mine.
Example:
You stated that supposedly you are concerned with self determination. I underlined one consequence of the Western tradition, with effects of current state of sovereignty, giving examples.
You came back arguing "yes but at they do not shoot on people" I underlined that it was a consequence of affluence (and the way it was built in the western world)
TheCZMan 3 years ago
And now, you say that supposedly I am the one who is not concerned with sovereignty and affluency is only what matters.
You are talking about yourself. If indeed, you were concerned with sovereignty, you will not have pushed aside what happened in Europe with a remark based on affluency.
Etc... Because actually I answered to your points already. You simply dismissed them.
You asked for Indians looking actively for independence: Lakota maybe? You came with Indians are not united...
TheCZMan 3 years ago
under a "dignified" leader. But what is that? Indians are several peoples. They do not need to be united under the banner of a leader to get their right to self determination respected.
Murder bloggers and stuff: I pointed out the missing very important part of the stuff.
Bloggers are harmless when it comes to many, many topics in the Western world.
A power has nothing to fear from this kind of freedom of speech.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
What is the greatest (and maybe only achievement) of blogging? Getting a president to impeachment procedure because of a fellatio. That is it. But on more serious topics, one has to recognize that freedom of speech is not subsersive in the West, getting us back to the point you consistently failed to take into account: a power will only try to suppress/eliminate what is perceived a threat to it.
And blogging, YT, etc... are certainly not a threat.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You justify China's Human Rights record, genocide, the murder of journalist, the suppression of workers rights and safety with what other nations have done and because prosperity is more important.
There is something so fundamentally wrong with that, that it undermines your other points.
Lame fucking sauce.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Blogger and other parts of the internet provide the only viable alternitive to corporate or state controled media.
So because journalists are harmful to the CCP hold on power then it is justifiable to beat them to death in the streets?
You can laugh as much as you want all the way to whatever branch of the Bank of China that you go to. The Chinese Regime has turned modern China into same kind of monster as past colonial powers like Japan.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
It very shady for you to twist my words like this. All I that I mean to say is that you can not compare the situation in Tibet with that of the Native Americans. A situation that you clearly have no clue about. Furthermore it is irrelevant and all you succeed in by harping on it is showing that in China two wrong make a right
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
"i don't have a clue about native American" just ask yourself how do you feel if you were a Native American; when every year millions of American celebrate the death of native American culture and remind them for what the "white people" did to them. Happy Thanksgiving Day.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
I have a pretty good idea how they feel. I asked them myself.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
I dismiss most of your statements because you seek to justify murder, genocide, and hate by simply point to other countries that have done/do the same thing. I guess two wrongs make a right in China.
A countries sovereignty is not absolute when it engages in criminal activity against its own people. We see the legal precedent in Chile and Argentina.
Furthermore all peoples have the right to self determination and more importantly to be free of violence and genocide.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
I can find a bunch of videos showing CCP kills people...Honestly I think I can find more than you. But What's it related to Olympic and territory of China?! pro-Tibetan terrorists are actually ANTI-CHINESE RACISTS that hate all Chinese and whole China! If you hate CCP, then fight against it. Don't Fucking fight against WHOLE CHINESE and China! Olympic belongs to China and all Chinese including Chinese Democracy Activists such as HU JIA. Stop your hypocrisy!
classicleon 3 years ago
I couldn't add comment until I changed my IP address, but I can comment on other people's videos without changing the IP. Sorry to be back :)
Whatever you say, you have to admit that Tibet is a part of China and western media are biased for separatists on this recent issue.
wenf200 3 years ago
For someone supposedly so in the human rights, you talk with no caution.
"Most important people are not being murdered in the street like we see so often in China."
Woooo... Images from China inside is that easy to get? If so, why the Western media broadcast events taking place in Nepal? Because they were lacking films.
Again a delicate issue like human rights require cautiousness, not broad claims.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Quebec was thoughtfully dealt with. Contrary to your claims, referenda were hold only when the outcome was secure. Quebec was poured with foreigners who learnt english and did not want to bother to learn french to fit into Quebec society. Getting them to vote helped the outcome.
Even if my comments no longer show to me, I already answered to this point.
Free speech and vote have no longer a subversive property in the Western world and then a power has no interest in suppressing them.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You are also confusing freedom and prosperity.
Conveniently, because affluence is the western world is tightly linked to the mass land spoliation the western world has benefited from.
You wrote that you dont care when sovereignty is not respected as long as government does not shoot on people.
So you dont care for sovereignty, that is all. What you should consider is how to get affluent enough to avoid shooting on people.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
You said that I support CCP government. Actually you and all the others who cast unshamedly human rights in the fray to further other vested rights are the best support to this government. You get the Chinese people to support this government because of your clearly exposed double standards. Everyone sees that you and others do not care a hoot about human rights and see only in them a leverage to prevent a rival on the international scene from rising.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
And isnt that the crux of the CCP's justification for tyranny. Most of us who are raising our voices care very deeply for the rights and safety of our fellow human beings.
I guess we are lucky to have the CCP thugs to teach us that murder and kidnapping are justified as long as some other country did it first.
What you fail to realize is this is why many of us get so very very angry with our own government for human rights violations, because it lowers the standard for evil doers elsewhere.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
So stability and affluence are more important than the rights of a nations people. Well dont you worry I am sure that China will murder and intimidate its way into prosperity sometime soon.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Although that is not entirely true, its is still true enough that something fundamentally wrong with that state of affairs.
More importantly, at least versan freely access various sources of information on the internet and make my own informed decision..
Free speech should be subversive and most importantly keep ones government accountable to its people.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
That statement is underhanded. You know just as well as i do that reporters were immediately kicked out of Tibet when the riots broke out.
And for the record the news sources that I read most often acknowledge that stock photos are from Nepal. Which BTW has agree to viciously crack down on demonstrators at China's Request.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Is this really the the way that you want the world to view China. As a nation where no one cares who gets hurt or what people get trampled on as long as you are making money?
Thats the thinking we are battling in our countries. Its high time you step up and at least do the same in yours.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
of course we care about human rights. it is immoral not to care about another human being. but u have to remember most of the Chinese population is living under a dollar a day life style. it is very unethical for them to live this way while the west get to enjoy a modern life.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
I can admit that it is unethical for the first world to benefit from pilaging the resources of developing nations, if you can admit that the first world could not do it without the help of Third world leaders.
The CCP would like you o believe that everything that sucks in China is the West fault.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
you are missing my point. i am not blaming what the west did in the past. i just saying that poor people care more about survive more than freedom. It is human nature.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
Freedom and development are not mutually exclusive. Infact I would argue that the only reason to need to usher in developement through state sponsored terror is to purposely exclude whole populations of a nation from the benefits of development.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
do you have any proves of your statement "development through state sponsored terror is to purposely exclude whole populations of a nation from the benefits of development".
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
all of human history, lambchop.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Yor analysis of the situation is embarrassing. Actually, lets be straight on that: the US and other countries have been benefiting a lot from their falsely called past actions in matter of land grabbing and (cultural or not) genocides. Why is your analysis embarrassing? You expect from others (here China) to succeed in something your own group failed to do. Here China should find another way knowingly whereas countries like the US could keep lecturing without ever reforming or amending.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Your support of a regime of thugs is embarrassing. The fact that as long as China is prospering and everyone is making money, Chinese people don't care what their government does, now that is embarrassing.
You bitch and moan about colonialism and the Japanese occupation, but it is so very clear that China has become the same monster that it claims other countries are.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
yes we do care about the Chinese government that is why we have a lot of students studying outside of China to develop a better a country. by the way what ever china does in Tibet is an internal affair. we don't invade countries for oils.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
No you just promote genocide in countries that have oil like Sudan.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Self determination of peoples? I dunno if you are aware of, but currently in Europe, there is a process called EU building. This process bulldozes the concept of national sovereignty and self determination of peoples.
Dutsch and Frenc referenda were ignored to stay the course and ultimately, as no European people (as a single entity) exists, it will destroy the very concept of a sovereignty based on self determination of a people.
I doubt you got concerned one second about that.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Considering that EU governments are not murdering people in the street to going about developing the EU, no I am not preticularly concerned about that.
That arguement is lame sauce.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Self-determination? You have seen millions and millions of Chinese, who know far more than you on their own country's history and Tibetan history, uniting together to fight with separatists and supporting government's action, but have you ever showed any respect for their voices (which come from deep love for their country instead of mere government) and human rights?
wenf200 3 years ago
I have seen hateful nationalism, born of xenophobia and nothing more.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
United Nations Charter article 2 (section 7) states that "nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state". Self-determination? That must be under domestic juristiction! Sovereignty comes first. When recently Native Americans say they want independence from US, and Quebec say too from Canada, have you said any word, ONE WORD, about that?
wenf200 3 years ago
I dont see Native Americans asking for independence you uneducated git! They have legitimate complaints but currently of of thier demands is not independence considering that most reservations are thier own SOVEREIGN nations.
Plus Quebec has had numerous referendum regarding independence. Most important people are not being murdered in the street like we see so often in China.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
yes they do want independence from U.S because i just interview a lot of them for my school project.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
As someone who lived next to the Navajo nation for over 4 years and as someone who has participated in demonstrations to support Native rights, I am certain that there is no significant support for indipendence amongst Native Americans.
Find me one example of a Native community that is actively seeking independence from the US?
This issue is irrelevant.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Lakota maybe?
Plus you also fail to consider the level of dependency put on Indians in the US.
Being an Indian is a status determined by the US government through a blood quantum,then a racial approach of membership.
Third, Indians looking for independence are getting very little help and support worldwide. Not much media circus and demonstration for them. Easy to check this through YT: comparing the number of vids posted for Tibet and Lakota is efficient.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
Native Americans are fewer in number and mostly seek to exert their current rights under the reservation system. They also lack a uniting and dignified leader such as the Dali Lama to bring thier case to the world stage. Its a shame, but thats the current reality.
But I guess that means every other government have the right to go out and murder and arrest every blogger, journalist, or dissident they can get their hands on.
I guess in your world two wrongs make a right.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
You do not understand what's going on in Tibet.
the Dalai Lama is not that holy and peaceful as you think. He kill more Tibetan than the Chinese . He is also a pro-Nazi lover. look up their history. The Dalai Lama yellow rope sect is losing their power in Tibet. Right now the black hat sect is winning because China back them up. it is a Tibetan war over who get to control Lhasa.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
Apparently, you didn't seize our point. Before you talk about other countries' problems, you should first examine your own countries' human rights record. One-sided attack on China's human right problem, will only debase your credibility of concern for human rights. Instead, it only shows you have hostility to both communist government and China. Have you ever said something about Iraq war on youtube which led to over 1 million civilian death and 5 million homeless refugees?
wenf200 3 years ago
I'll stop here and not respond again if you don't respect the sovereignty claim of China over Tibet.
wenf200 3 years ago
Lambchop I do not respect the territorial claim over Tibet, or Taiwan, or the Spratly Islands, or Aksai Chin.
I believe in the right to self determination for all peoples.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Hereticxxii, Keep up the good work. It's a shame that these Chinese students, studying in the west, don't have more of an initiative to search out the facts concerning their own country. That they continue to 'pull the party line'. I'm sad that, currently, have all the resources in the world, yet they choose to ignore fact. When you all graduate and go home you will be under big brother's thumb again. You wont have information at your fingertips. You do your country people a huge disservice.
Kokuasan 3 years ago
Well, I cant find my comments so I cant answer to your comments. Must be CCP or something.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
I can clearly see your comments.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
As I cant see them, I cant see your answer to them, that was the remark.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
you guys have the right to discuss china with a group of people with the same western world view. but please do not argue this with chinese people, because you cannot speak chinese, you cannot use chopsticks, you have never lived in china, you have never read laozi, you do not know what the spirit of chinese new year, dragon boat festival or mid autumn day, and you can never know the meaning of 一心一意
timeesprit 3 years ago
Happen to eat with chopsticks everyday. I speak a respectable amount of both Japanese and Korean. I have seen the cherry blossoms of Asia. I have been to China for the Chinese New Year. I happen to like China and the Chinese people.
Most importantly, like anyone else outside of China I have open and free access to the information out there.
You are suggesting that a disregard for human rights is part of the Chinese spirit. That is simply not true.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
you miss the point of my message..
timeesprit 3 years ago
the western media is control by their own government and the sad thing is the people doesn't know about it. at lease the chinese knows
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
Nobody ever said that, but plenty of evidence proved that western media are not so unbiased, just and fair as they have claimed.
wenf200 3 years ago
Historical validity of sovereignty of course is very important for us to understand the whole issue! Since Tibet is proved to be a part of China, then the mobs' claim of independence doesn't stand. So what they did is not only against the CCP government, but also against the country. What do you think a government would/should do facing this kind of violent separation?
wenf200 3 years ago
The separatists are saying that Tibet is not a part of China, and China should get out of Tibet. Do you think this is a violation of the country or merely the government? The mobs killed many ethnic Hans in the riot, and set fire to Hans' stores and five girls were burnt to death (including a Tibetan girl). Do you think the violence was targeted at the CCP government? Not the innocent ordinary civilians?
wenf200 3 years ago
Simply looking at the demands of the government in exile shows that Tibetians seek "meaningful autonomy" not independence. The violence that you and other Chinese are happy to exaggerate is a direct result of long standing government policies in Tibet and they are therefore to blame.
All peoples have a right to self-determination, to be free of cultural genocide, and to participate in their government and civil society.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
We are exaggerating the violence of Tibetan separatists? Come on! Have a look at those videos, have a look at those names who are victims of the riot and will never come back to us again!
wenf200 3 years ago
How much do you know about the points of the so-called "meaningful autonomy" by Dalai Lama, and "independence" by Tibetan Youth Congress? The society under Dalai's rule was serfdom and slavery, as a result of no separation of politics and religion, don't you know that? Do you think arm cutting, eye gouging and live human skin peeling are protecting human rights?
wenf200 3 years ago
Much of which have been fabricated and exaggerated by the CCP. To think that the Tibetians would go back to a feudal society is dubious.
Good thing they have Communist liberators to murder and imprison them out of such backwardsness.
I also know that the Dali Lama has more integrity in his little fingure than all of the CCP thugs in the leadership put togather.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
The occupation of Tibet was an act born from the greed, fear, and hate found in CCP sponsored nationalism. If you want to claim that the invasion of Tibet was an benevolent act of liberation, then you are a simply a liar or worse.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Actually, the opposition to the pro-Tibetan independence was started by Chinese students who do their study outside China. They gathered information from both China and so-called democracies. They proved western media's fabrication of the story with hardcore facts. But those who speak for "free Tibet" failed to do so in the same way. Don't you think this is not enough to support their claims that the mobs should be responsible for the riot?
wenf200 3 years ago
What facts?! All we have seen is wild accusations of CIA conspiracies, and false and largely irrelevant appeals to the historical validity to the Chinese occupation of Tibet.
I could clearly care less about Chinese students' displays of Chinese Nationalism. In my country there are jackasses who demonstrate in support of the Iraq war. Public displays of Chinese Nationalism do nothing to undermine the fact that the Chinese government has engaged in a policy of cultural genocide in Tibet.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
is not cultural genocide is call modernization. the old have to make way with the new.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago
Modernization by gunpoint seeks to modernize Tibet in such a way to exclude Tibetians and benefit the migrant Chinese in the area.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
In terms of so-called "cultural genocide", I think you should listen to the voice of Tibetan majority, instead of some separatists.
wenf200 3 years ago
The Tibetian majority are Chinese that the CCP encouraged to move to China just so you can say what you just said.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Show us the statistic data to prove this, groundless claim cannot support that Tibetan majority are non-Tibetans. I can give you a number, that based on 2000 census, 92.8% of the population in Tibet Autonomous Region are Tibetans. (source from wikipedia "Tibet")
wenf200 3 years ago
That same article points out 15% decline in the Tibetian population since 1959 according to the PRC's own numbers.
That %92.8 is from a government that will imprison or deport reporters who try to even get statistics about mining accidents, for example.
Finally, going about cultural genocide is completely within character for the PRC, all other things considered. We have seen the same in Eastern Turkmenistan and Inner Mongolia. Or take a look at how North Korean refugees are treated
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Cultural genocides? Europe has been doing cultural genocides in so many places.
Your indignation is very selective.
TheCZMan 3 years ago
No, lambchop, its not selective. It is not right when Europe or America does it, and it is not right when CCP thugs do it.
Is that your arguement! Its ok for the CCP to terrorize its own people just because other countries do the same thing?! Two wrongs dont make a right. and it is that attitude that lets crap like that that lets governments around the world feel like they can do such things with impunity
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Have you count the population fled to India and Nepal? Have you count the population moved to other parts of China? Everybody in China knows the national sensus is much more reliable than the estimated number?
Further more, why don't you mention a little bit about how did American whites treat their thanks-giving Indians and aboriginals?
Anyway, all these discussion will not deny the fact that Tibet is a part of China, and what the Tibetan splitters are doing is violent separation.
wenf200 3 years ago
The people that have fled or migrated fro Tibet do not account for the population gap, especially when one considers that Tibetians have been exempt from the "one child" policy. Any statistics from the CCP government are worthless.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
We are not talking about Native Americans (Indians is an ignorant term). But seeing as though I live for 4 years next to a Navajo reservation I have a lot to say about the matter. Namely that US government has a history of usurping the land of what is now the USA from the Native Americans through genocide.
Are you saying that the Chinese government should do what ever it wants to its own people and other countries, just because other countries have done equally horrible things
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
i would hope that you, like me, would try to hold own countries accountable for how they treat not only thier own people but also the people of other nations.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
As someone that has taken a rock to the head while demonstrating against my own government's policies i am extremely disappointed with your acceptance of the greedy, hateful, bloodthristy, violent, and tyrannical tactics of the CCP.
Every arguement that you have posted here is merely a distraction from China's dismal human right record.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
China is my mother,and I will protect her even if I will lost my life.
I love China,and Tibet is just a province of China.
noson123 3 years ago
I hope that someday that you will realized that your government (like mine) is manipulating your patriotism to excuse state sponsored terror.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
China's media is bias toward the Chinese regime. If the media does not agree with the communist party opinion, it is banned from reporting. Chinese people cannot say the western media is bias, when they don't even know what it is to have a free press.
matt83au 3 years ago
Seems you didn't prove that western media are not biased and prejudiced?
wenf200 3 years ago
There is a strong case that just because one can cherry pick bad reporting from western media hardly makes the genocide in Tibet a fabrication.
I would be lying if I said the western media is not bias, but its does have a free flow of information and we dont (usually) make a habit of murdering, jailing, or intimadating journals into saying what the government wants to hear.
I think it is cute that there are many pro-CCP accounts that are only a week or two old, such as your account.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Yes, this account is new, so what? Just because I think you didn't prove your point with solid facts, then I'm a pro-CCP Chinese? Huh, is this your way of debating?
wenf200 3 years ago
I would again point to the fact that I have not set out to prove that the Western media is not biased. I think I have pointed out that it is far more viable place to get a picture of what is going on in China. In a game of which is more credible, the state controlled PRC media loses hands down.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
I have no idea if you are pro-CCP but by playing into the CCP-sponsored nationalism (as far as I can tell this is the only thing you have used your NEW account to do) you are certainly acting like you are.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
Did I play into the CCP-sponsored nationalism? My country is under attack by some prejudiced guys without proof. Why can't I defend for my country and justice? You are from the US and you defend for your media, can I say you are a ideology-oriented journalist, follow your logic?
wenf200 3 years ago
AGAIN I am not seeking to defend western media. I am however clearly attacking the idea that the state sponsored terrorism that we see in Tibet is being made up out of thin air by a prejudiced media.
More importantly I seek to point out that what we are seeing in Tibet is completely within character for the Chinese government.
As for proof we have years and years of documentation and data from governmental and NGO groups.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
The CCP has a vested interest in framing any issue where there is criticism of the Chinese government as an attack on the Chinese people. Statements like "My country is under attack" clearly promote the idea showing support for the human rights of the Chinese people are irresponsible and just plain wrong. I should know my government has been known to do the same thing more often than not.
The ones under attack are the thugs at the top that
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
The ones under attack are the thugs at the top that use state sponsored terrorism against its own people.
Hereticxxii 3 years ago
let me remind you of the Patriots act pass by the bush administration. China is not the one attacking other country right now.
Rakkasans2006 3 years ago