Christian vs. Atheist (2 of 2) :: Debate

[ToHoldNothing]

The Paul's motivation question is missing the point: one doesn't need a motivation when you are convinced by evidence that isn't rational, but emotional by its nature

[bayani420]

sounds like the jesus guy was getting schooled by the nerd, he asked so many questions, i hope he learned some stuff

[vocabmalone]

Joekawi - if God exists, are miracles at least logically possible?

[joekawi]

gay apologetics= fail. Christianity is dying ;it doesnt matter if eye witnesses wrote the bible. eye witness accounts are extremely unreliable. Since magic shit doesn't happen today their is no reason to believe it ever happened.

[vocabmalone]

@chyrd ... see, you are doing a mini-debate right here w/the other guy but this is not really a conducive forum to do it. so if you can't do a web cam debate, what about a written format? if you say my biggest tactic is to 'shout people down', well, I can't really employ that in a written, moderated format? so what do you say?

[Brrup]

@chyrd ...Bert Ehrman, an agnostic, but a New Testament scholar, claims Jesus existed and died on the cross. Any Gospel, Biblical, New Testament scholar will tell you this. It is simply silly to say Jesus never existed.

If you want some basic information on this you can go look into the "Historicity of Jesus."

[chyrd]

@Brrup I didn't say he didn't exist... what I am doubting is the divinity... as did many of his followers up until the nicene council... and was a major reason for the orthodox split... BTW...Erhman is a biblical scholar not just NT you should read his book Misquoting Jesus...

[Brrup]

@chyrd ...If you do your research, you will see there is more evidence for Jesus than Emperor Tiberius. If you accept the Gospels and the New Testament (which you should), Jesus without a doubt wins out against the historical evidence of Emperor Tiberius. In fact, a source from Tacitus has both of them mentioned hand in hand in the same context.

[chyrd]

@Brrup How can I accept the gospels? again they weren't written by witnesses or contemporaries... they contradict each other... parts were added later... just the account of the resurrection should be enough to convince anyone that there are problems.

Tacitus talks about Christians and Tiberius... naming the Christus showing where the name of the group comes from... he doesn't mention Jesus

[Brrup]

@chryd ...There are many tests that are conducted to determine the validity of scripture and historical or ancient writings and texts, and the New Testament and even the Old Testament has stood its ground. To this day it still continues to withstand scrutiny of being a "myth," and is even used as a historical document.

[chyrd]

@Brrup Am I to assume that when you say validity of scripture you are talking about it being the divine word of god? If so... I would like to see what tests those are...

Using it as an historical document is NOT the case in the public school systems here... there are far better sources that can be used for ancient histories... so I doubt that what you are saying is true...

[Brrup]

@chyrd...The historical evidence of Jesus is undeniable - simply put. There are thousands upon thousands of manuscripts to support the validity of the Bible. This alone is astounding and part of the reason why I say you are really sticking your neck out there if you deny the Gospels. Any Gospel scholar, whether an Atheist or Christian or whatever would agree that the preservation of the Gospels is remarkable.

[chyrd]

@Brrup READ Misquoting Jesus... the reason there are thousands of manuscripts just points to the spread of the religion not its validity... 2k years from now there will be thousands of books of mormon... and they will look more valid since they didn't have scribes copying them and making mistakes and adding and deleting text...

The fact that the gospel still exists is testament only to the power of the religion... not the god... and certainly doesn't prove the god.... that's circular reasoning

[chyrd]

@Brrup and arguments based on the popularity of anything just don't stand up... there has to be more to back them up... popularity is not evidence...

[chyrd]

so by this argument... you are saying that the Muslims are right... if in fact what you are saying is that because of the rapid rise of christianity makes it believable... The muslims have just as strong a claim... and if you want to talk about religious antiquity... then the Hindi's have it. Your point is moot.

The christians got a big boost when Constantine made it the state religion of the Roman Empire... and further boosted with the ruthlessness of the church throughout the middle ages...

[INT3RGALACTIK]

score: christian 2 athiest 0

u won that debate fair and square, u sure told them lol, tellem wut a mighty God we serve, they think know BUT THET HAVE NO IDEA!!

[chyrd]

@INT3RGALACTIK were we watching the same debate? He overtalked every valid point the other guys were making... used arguments of authority, circular reasoning and a bunch of other logical fallacies...

Do you often just go with the guy who talks louder or do you really listen to what is being said? Pretty sure it's the former...

[INT3RGALACTIK]

@chyrd I actually did pay attention to the guy speaking louder, and the other ppl didn't say much, I followed every word he spoke and I agree with him 100%

[Brrup]

The thing is... even if the atheist says that Paul was just mentally unstable and saw a false image of Jesus... The Christian can still say that Jesus miraculously worked miracles through Paul and his disciples and apostles... It was not just "seeing" Jesus.

[chyrd]

@Brrup they can say it but can they prove it?

[Brrup]

@chyrd Well... the thing is if anyone were to deny the gospels and new testament then they ultimately can't trust any historical writing for anything.

[chyrd]

@Brrup and how do you figure that? There were actual historians who wrote about the time period... funny thing... they NEVER wrote about Jesus... you see... Historian is an actual career.... and most are very serious about it... You would think that one of them would have written about Jesus... or even some wandering Egyptian or Syrian.. talking about all the things they saw Jesus do... but they didn't...

So do tell me how the gospels being wrong disprove all other historical writings?

[Brrup]

@chyrd Actually every single source referring to Jesus talks about Jesus being a divine man, being worshiped or doing some kind of miracles or "sorcery". Instead of questioning why certain people did not talk about Him, you should actually question how there is more historical evidence and sources for the life of Jesus than there is of the Roman Emperor Tiberius himself.

[chyrd]

@Brrup Really? So why did it take the Nicene Council to finally put to rest the man's divinity? The church itself was divided on it... that is why the Orthodox split..

Just where is this evidence that you speak of... I'm very interested as I've been studying this for years and haven't come across a single item that you speak of...

I find it funny that you think there is more "historical" evidence for Jesus being the Christ than for Tiberius...

Please... do share...

[Brrup]

@chyrd If Only counting sources external from the Gospels, you have I believe nine sources referring to Jesus... all referring to Jesus as the "Christ", referring to Him in a divine manner and/or being worshiped. Some sources you can look into are the writings of Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, Suetonius, Tacticus just to name a few.

[chyrd]

@Brrup I can refer to Jesus as the Christ... and write a book about it... that doesn't make it so...

Do you think I haven't read the accounts of josephus and tacitus and others? The point is... NONE of them were witnesses... and none were contemporaries...

That would be like you or I writing about Elvis... We only know what we know of him second or third hand... Any idea how many people claim to have the King's banana sandwich recipe? Do you know none of them are the same? That's 40 years

[chyrd]

@Brrup Josephus wrote about him twice... and in one section he calls him the "so called Christ"... that's hardly evidence of Jesus' divinity...

Tacitus was a Roman not Jewish historian and wrote his line about the Christus in 117 AD He never mentions Jesus only christianity... the writing that he is attributed to is in doubt by many scholars since only a copy exists that was found centuries after it was supposedly written.

Suetonius was born 117 ace and wrote about things happening in 49

[Demented128]

imo aethism is no less stupid then any other religion.

[vocabmalone]

Atheism is the ONLY belief that makes any sense at all *IF* Christianity is not true ... IMHO

[chyrd]

@vocabmalone and you base that on what? Have you read the Veda's? The Gita? The Quran? Book of Mormon?

I have... and atheism is the only thing (not belief) that makes sense.

[vocabmalone]

@chyrd the answer is 'yes' i have read them (although not all of the Gita).

also, would you like to do a moderated written or video debate then?

[chyrd]

@vocabmalone what is there to debate? first off I have no vid cam...

I watched both of your videos... and your biggest tactic was to shout down your opponent when they were making a point, dismiss what they were saying and keep changing topics...

That's not debate....

[kelrathi]

"Let me ask you this" After he fails to make his point, or when the Atheists crush his argument into dust.

[vocabmalone]

strange - I don't remember seeing any dust that night at all *hmmm*

[worldsworstjukebox]

Paul is dead. I am the walrus.

[vocabmalone]

The Beatles are dead (mostly).

I hope they knew Jesus ...

[worldsworstjukebox]

"I hope they knew Jesus..."

They certainly knew they were (and are) more POPULAR than Jesus.

[Heavybootsofdeath]

Fuckin Christians.

Need to be exterminated...

[worldsworstjukebox]

Let's keep them around and make them work in fast food and public sanitation.

[Heavybootsofdeath]

sounds like a plan. lets shake on it.

[worldsworstjukebox]

Since we're putting them into the fast food business, let's milkshake on it.

(OK, that was bad.)

[dexter876]

I love how Vocab is moving his hands like a gangster rapper. THUG LIFE

[vocabmalone]

just wait till I start throwin' up the big dub

[ritter89]

That's his attempt to appear "cool", "hip" and contemporary  despite the creepy Christian street preacher gig. It's a ploy to lure in "the youth". It's all so obvious, contrived and absurd that it makes me ill, sometimes.

[vocabmalone]

dude ... I'm a rapper ... I am hip by definition!

*wink*

[chyrd]

@vocabmalone I've worked with lots of rappers... and that is NOT the definition...

[rationalresponder]

GREAT JOB Vocab!

2 Timothy 2:15

[vocabmalone]

aw shucks!

[MsGMorgan]

The atheist needs to familiarize himself with Christ's teachings before trying to speak on the scope of the message and audience of the gospel. The gospel has ALWAYS been for the entire world. You can see that in the OT and NT. Jesus CLEARLY taught this when he spoke of his "other sheep" and when he issued the great commision. Additionally, he needs to check out Numbers and Deuteronomy. There were "sojourners" who were allowed to be with the Israelites if they agreed to worship Yahweh. Peace.

[vocabmalone]

he's a pretty bright guy, for sure.

I just pray the Holy Spirit will

awaken his heart to the

reality of who God is ...

[steve6389]

Please send your camera man to school, or get a tri pod from Walmart for $20 bucks. Great job otherwise.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 1 corin

[urbanevangelism]

lol good point. will do better next time

[vocabmalone]

You know, Rocco did good in this, I think.

At first I thought not but after hearing it again

I give him some well-deserved props. =)

Vocab

[ThePrinceOfMillAve]

Rocco and Vocab!

What night was this taken during? Oh wait, I just saw Jim Coleman with his crutch, I can probably figure the date out from that.

Neat. I can see other members of the Resistance wandering around. Pretty keen having people out there taking videos.