This is a perfect example of a human being who has never tasted honey offering learned arguments about honey. The man knows a lot--but he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Eckhart Tolle also says that he "believes" that what Jesus Christ was really teaching was the divinity in everyone. Maybe that's the case, who knows, but he still has a belief about it and that means he believes he's right.
(irishgirl428, mikeadkins[dot]com/article/father-barron-on-eckhart-tolles-a-new-earth-awakening-to-your-lifes-purpose-part-2/ ). I think her comment is worth looking at.
The second thing: I haven't noticed if Tolle was attacking catholics.
About "truth claims" - this time I will cite someone else: "Father Barron, Eckhart Tolle makes it very clear in his book that if what he is saying does not resonant with an individual then that’s okay. In no way is he saying “I’m right and if you don’t believe me, you are wrong”. Totally the opposite, which is why me, as a Catholic, can finally breathe and feel like I’m not be forced to believe absolutely in any one religion or dogma. It actually makes me feel better about being Catholic."
@greenJoker8 I don't think Eckhart Tolle does say it's ok if you disagree with him. What he does say is that his books will either resonate with you, or they will be meaningless. Very black and white. Also, if you think they are meaningless, then that means you are not ready for it. Slightly insulting I would say. He discounts the fact that we might agree with some of what he says, but not all, and why should we? We are all unique.
No need criticise others when you behave the same way (truth telling) yes that is a point.
Yet his books are about meditation and I've read one book and it has helped.
We are our best when not bitching. We must believe in ourselves and do what is right or respond in right way. We can't float on a cloud that is not grounded in truth.
Here is the subtle thing: All of Tolle's ideas are only there to be used temporarily and then dropped. What are they to be used for? To move beyond thought. To move beyond a sense of identity which is made partly out of "I believe this and that." And why would we want to do that? Well, in my experience when I do that I feel peace, joy, love in ways I never imagined. And the people who listen to Tolle go by instinct: They *feel* they *sense* that he has gone beyond thought, and expresses love.
Also, I get your point about (paraphrase): "Well Tolle is expressing what he thinks is true too, is he not? And everyone who thinks they are right about something thinks others are wrong." So it would seem: " If I am right then you must be wrong ... " so it would seem. It would seem Tolle is explaining ideas which we can believe or not believe. (cont'd)
And indeed, if we turn those into beliefs, then it is just like another Religion.
Hi Father Barron. I enjoy your videos a lot - there's a quality and thoughtfulness there. And I can see you really enjoy the conceptual side as well as the spiritual side of things. Me too. When you say "what we want is salvation, which is a whole transformation of the self in Christ". Can you elaborate there? I think *that* is precisely the common point of contact with Tolle's teachings. That's the whole deal. The question is then: HOW? And, what are the obstructions? There you may differ.
Is God someone or something. What I read is that God is not a man (Hos 11:9). God is Spirit (Joh 4:24), God is also Love...these are more like something than someone. If God was someone then why does he not come to us and show him. Surely He could spare a minute and show him on TV. It is because we are told that God is someone that so many people moves away from God as it does not show a loving God.
@tjboats7 God is certainly someone, but that doesn't mean that he can appear on TV! To say that God is a person is to say that he is endowed with intellect, will, freedom, and purpose. But God is a spirit, who transcends matter.
This hypocrisy of the new-age movement is typical. You detected it with infallible logic: Eckhart DOES make a truth claim, of course he does. But he, unlike the Church, is not honest about it. He pretends to not be exclusivistic and ideological, but that is STILL a truth claim; people fail to see it. Logic escapes people. I'm a Buddhist and I think many things in Christianity are valid, but still obviously I must think Buddhism is "more right" or else why would I be one?
I think he misses Eckhart's message completely! He is so identified with the Christian ideology that his sense of self depends on it. His story is based on the belief in Christianity. To become enlightened in the way that Eckhart discusses he needs to look beyond that story.
@bitphr3ak I don't know, friend, but it sounds like your sense of self is pretty tied to an ideology as well! I always find that psychologizing about one's opponent isn't very productive. Tell me where you think my argument is wrong.
@wordonfirevideo Eckhart's teachings are just pointers, they just aim to the truth, so the contain on them is not the thruth itself, is not to be conceptualized, once you analize it you miss it, hence is not an ideology, an ideology is something created by the human mind, truth can't be found withing the mind. You just become and observer, which is to say using all your senses fully, living only in the present moment.
@wordonfirevideo Jesus once said “Look carefully at the wild lilies. See its long stem. Its white petals. How lovely. How delicate. Can you feel its stem in your fingers? Can you smell its fragrance as you bring it up to your nose?
@666TNB But that's not what he said about the lillies! He said that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed like one of these. His point was that God is provident over the whole of his creation. Jesus was not a Buddhist!
@wordonfirevideo Jesus wasn't a buddhist or wasn't he part of any religion, he teached us the beauty and essence of life, labeling him buddhist or not buddhist just misses the essence of his teachings. And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing, truth is found in the lilies not in the human mind, observe it, touch it, feel it, that will bring you to the timeless truth which is vaster than any conceptual thinking.
@bitphr3ak Ah but once you have found Christ there is no greater truth or story to be found. Christ can not be looked past, only looked through. Christ as our prism upon the world helps us to make sense of everything.
Part five: This, I accept is my own belief system and it may be flawed or the easy way out but it works for me and it makes me a better person at the core. And for that I am truly greatful to all spiritual teachers of the past. And I believe (although I'm not sure if it's blasphemy) that once sin is completely out, we do become as Jesus was (a pure channel through which God does His work), a son of Man and God. The only choice we have in life is to seek truth or want to be right. Much love
Part four: It is there and that is the truth. There is sin (obstacle to love) in me right now. Seeing without beating yourself for failing and accepting it for what it is, it will be dissolved (I think through the grace of God). When sins are dissolved we become as Jesus was and as he wanted us to be not because we worked to be like him but because we accepted ourselves and looked within without judging and condemning. The light of God dissolves sin and slowly guides us home. Not guilt, not fear
Part three: I have tried to change in the past. I have seen what I was lacking and I forced myself into being more loving, compassionate, accepting, etc. It never worked. In fact, it fed the obstacle and made it bigger and made me a hypocrite. Based on my own experience, although I am not completely free of sin (obstacles to letting love, God work through me) I think that the right way is to see and accept that whatever sin I have, it is there. Don't run away from it, don't push it down.
Part two: In my humble opinion, I believe one should be first true to one self. If I don't have the love Jesus wants me to have in my heart for myself and my fellow man it it better to see and accept the fact fully. Then (this again is my personal experience and the new age theory that backs it up) change happens by itself. There is no effort. By seeing the obstacle to love and accepting it, it dissolves by itself. That is the miracle.
I agree that Tolle, much like everyone else, has their opinion and personal experience on what the truth is. What I really like about the 'new age' gurus is the idea that, yes, this is my version of truth but, if you don't believe me, you're not going to hell for eternity. This is my biggest turn off with the church. Underneath all the talk about love and salvation, the undercurrent is one of fear and guilt. And I, for one, cannot love someone I fear. Much love
@bodolax Not through ideas alone. But I reject the view that religion has to involve the surrender of reason, for that opens to door to all forms of fundamentalism.
I (also) found Tolle a little illogical with the double standard, as you say, "Oh, you religious people with your obsessions with truth." He does just the same as any one. You're right. It's just hard for some people to find out what is correct. My friends, for example, find that they should expect to be wrong about a belief simply as a matter of probability. So, they see people wildly stitching multiple ideas, and conclude better odds with more ideas. It's absurd.
I can't accept Christian/Catholic views when all you guys do is fight among yourselves about what is true. I've found that if something in the Bible doesn't make sense, I read the esoteric texts and in going back to the Bible, things are more clear. I think what all religions are missing is each other. To bad everyone's to busy defending their version of truth to see it. I can't wait till' the walls come crashing down and we see the value in all teachings as a whole.
@ActiveMerkaba Do you give up on politics because politicians routinely fight with each other? Do you give up on art because art critics regularly disagree? Do you give up on baseball because Yankee fans fight with Red Sox fans? Come on.
@wordonfirevideo God, to me is much more than Politics. Art I believe is an extension of God and sorry, I 'm not a baseball fan LOL. I'm not implying that I give up on my fellow brothers and sisters. Every major religion has inner and outer teachings. This is nothing new, but unfortunately, the inner teachings hold the keys to understanding the outer teachings and because they've been held from the mainstream people for so long, text like the Bible are largely misunderstood.
@wordonfirevideo I can say this for certain because after studying the inner mysteries for some time I went to a relative who's Chatholic Monk and after he was convinced I knew what I was talking about, he admitted that in fact, they do study the inner mysteries but hold it from the public because the church believes people aren't ready. What's interesting is that Eckhart and many others are dead on with what we talked about that day. He then congratulated me for understanding the big picture.
As you've said, Tolles' work seems to be right on with regards to the workings of the human dysfunction but you can't accept that he makes God impersonal. The inner teachings ay that God is the manifest and the unmanifest, negative and possitive. God is all of it. God is personal in that God resides within you, and yet is impersonal in that God is part of everyone and everthing else too. When we dumb something as immense as "GOD" down to a word and defend the word, we lose the point.
@benabaxter Everyone certainly has the right to believe what feels right to them and I certain don't mean to challenge your personal truth, I' ve found SEVERAL referances in the Bible to God being within. “Do you not know that you too are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?” - 1 Corinthians 3:16 Is just one of many. The Bible also refers to the Still, small voice with reference to Divine consciousness speaking to us from within. That parable is about calming the mind to hear it.
@benabaxter I only point this out becaue for me, I have found this connection within and converse with God all the time. I'm noone special, we ALL have this divine connection. Man is struggling because we've been taught that God isn't part of us. This of course because the churches needed to establish themselves as toll booths between us and God in order to fullfill their own agendas. The Gospels of Thomas are very clear about not needing church or religion and that God is in and all around us.
Eckhart delivers a much more direct aproach to understanding the dysfunctions of the mind. As one who sees the value in all ancient teachings, I don't think the problem is as much about Jesus being false or wrong. It's that we are told we are going to hell for not accepting Christ as the ONLy way to Heaven. I've had many Christians tell me Mother Teresa, The Dali Lama and many others are going to hell. Religous people do more to turn people away from God through fear than anyone.
I say this to you, type into youtube ,why did the english civil war start. religious tossers was just a personal opinion. why are we at war now?.in religion, there was a start point ,then people created their own views, if you lived in another culture ,you would have a different view,no different to why bad girls like bad girls and why, nice girls like nice guys,its mind conditioning.
what do i have to be threatened about? my problem has already been stated, do i need to repeat myself?
@smurfaroo1 "what do i have to be threatened about?"
--You feel threatened because he is critical of Tolle. So you react by attacking Religion and the Church en masse. This is an Ad Hominem Abusive Fallacy. Look it up. Attacking people doesn't help your case, and it has nothing to do with what Barron said in the video at all.
@smurfaroo1 Wars start because of greed & the lust for power. They are caused by people, not necessarily doctrine. Christian teaching of the Sermon on the Mount preaches Universal Love of one's enemies. How does that start a war??? Your hasty generalization that ALL religion is responsible for war is your biased interpretation of history. You can delude yourself all you want, but until I see actual data supporting this CAUSAL connection you claim, your Anti-Religious fantasies can take a hike.
@smurfaroo1 Ha!! Yeah, like Father Barron's teaching is "judgmental," "threating" and "starting wars." Where do you guys get off? This itself is a ridiculously false judgment. Take your Anti-Catholic Hate somewhere else.
@mypolicy9 LOL dude if he wasnt threatened ,why does this video exist?
this video is also judging eckhart, oh and now you are going to tell me it was buddists that started world war., how about you take your cathlic hate somewhere else, i seach eckhart tolle and all i get is religious tossers trying to debate him.
@smurfaroo1 lol! Since when does someone have to feel threatened in order to make a video about his views on some matter? I can only wonder about your own motives for deciding to post something here. You think Father Barron is threatening obviously because there was something about what he said that made YOU feel threatened. Tell me. What is it that threatens you about this harmless priest making a video?
@MoDeeSeventyThree " youare the one that made the speculation that what I was taught was wrong"
--I am saying that whatever it was that you were taught, if it was contrary to what was contained in the CCC, then it is contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches.
@MoDeeSeventyThree --Just because someone taught you the wrong thing, doesn't indict the right thing. Fool. According to your logic, if your physics teacher tells you the wrong thing, namely, that the Earth is flat, does that mean the teaching that the earth is round becomes "indicted". Not at all.
@MoDeeSeventyThree " youare the one that made the speculation that what I was taught was wrong"
--I am saying that whatever it was that you were taught, if it was contrary to what was contained in the CCC, then it is contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches.
@MoDeeSeventyThree The correct teaching of the Holy Mother Church is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Ignorant Catholics are wrong about what they teach if is contrary to what is contained in the Catechism which is a collection of the efforts of 2000 years of theology.
If don't already know this, then I'm sorry for your lack of education. It is time for you to start reading Church History and Theology.
@mypolicy9 I don't need to waste my time with it; its pointless and of no consequence; I wouldn't call it education; I would call it a waste of paper; to write countless drivel over fairy tales
@MoDeeSeventyThree " I don't need to waste my time with it; its pointless and of no consequence; I wouldn't call it education; I would call it a waste of paper; to write countless drivel over fairy tales"
--That's not an argument. These kinds of childish polemics get you nowhere. Don't waste my time if you nothing intelligent to say.
@MoDeeSeventyThree "That evidence would not hold up in any other discourse"
--Who says? You? I guess you can choose to ignore all the hot debates on this issue, but that doesn't give you license to say the evidence is not compelling for belief--because it is--for both historians and biblical scholars.
This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
@MoDeeSeventyThree " that evidence would not hold up in any other discourse; ever here of midrash"
--Who says? You? I guess you can choose to ignore all the hot debates on this issue, but that doesn't give you license to say the evidence is not compelling for belief--because it is. For both historians and biblical scholars.
"religion makes claims impossible to know or prove; this is the difference"
--This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
@MoDeeSeventyThree "a truth one must conclude for themselves based on their own experience"
--But one's own experience is not always the surest guide to the truth, nor is it the fundamental basis of it.The person of Christ is that basis. If I drew conclusions in my life always based on how I felt, then I become my own infalllible God. But I am not God. I learn more about my own blind spots from correct teachings & other persons, not by turning inward & locating some feeling like Tolle does.
@mypolicy9 this is where we disagree; turning inward and looking at the process of our thinking and how and why we react to things; people; situations, etc is invaluable; the very lack of this process is the cause of many ills in the world; because many people obtain answers about the world on an old book;
@wordonfirevideo Tolle has it backwards. True immanence lies in Transcendence, not transcendence in immanence. A "path" based on the least common denominator in religions is the path of least resistance since it is grounded in subjectivity, not objectivity, & so the final outcome of this cherry-picking approach is an ooze of ideas adapted to one's own false self. We find ourselves in Christ, not Christ in ourselves--otherwise, we are idolizing our image of Christ, not Christ Himself.
wow, this priest sounded intelligent up until 3:30... he should have thought this through more...the church and religion tries to impose beliefs, ideology and state those things are the truth...Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true....he says the same thing as the Buddha said...i'm not teaching a belief....it is something you have to experience and know for yourself...nothing to believe in
@mypolicy9 first, there is nothing to believe..the teachings are not about beliefs...he has explanations as to why people behave the way they do...his teachings are about experience; they are about a shift in the way you interact with life and others; you only know the truth in it through living it; just like Buddhist teachings
to your last remark "no thanks. I'll stick with the truth"....what truth? whose truth? and how do you know it is true?
@mypolicy9 in fact what he says is true, but to know it is you must experience it for yourself; nothing is taken at face value; there is no credulity here, unlike the fantastical claims of Christianity, especially the perverted doctrines of Catholicism
@MoDeeSeventyThree Oh, so now what Eckhart teaches IS true? But you said,
"Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true"
So which is it? Is it true or not? Sorry, friend, this very contradictory nonsense you're delivering is the perversion. After all, you're not even sure what it is that you believe.
@mypolicy9 he is not proposing a belief system or an ideology; the truth he speaks of is a truth one must conclude for themselves based on their own experience, not because it is contained in a book; you seem to equate his teachings as the antithesis to Catholicism; it is not; Christianity is a religious ideology that requires a certain level of credulity; Tolle's work contains no dogmas, doctrines or belief system, just a shift in how you relate to people, thoughts & events in life
@MoDeeSeventyThree "the truth he speaks of is a truth one must conclude for themselves based on their own experience"
--But one's own experience is not always the surest guide to the truth, nor is it the fundamental basis of it. The person of Christ is that basis. If I drew conclusions in my life always based on how I felt, then I become my own infalllible God. But I am not God.
@MoDeeSeventyThree "Tolle's work contains no dogmas, doctrines or belief system"
--Of course it does. If it didn't, he wouldn't have a anything to teach. But he does teach something. That something that he teaches is a belief system, even it is only practical guidelines about how best to achieve this or that, and those practical guidelines can be true or false. They thus either fully represent the human condition in its entirely, or they don't. THAT is what deserves investigation
@mypolicy9 if I tell you that doing 100 situps a day will give you great abs; I'm not trying to teach you something to take on faith; I'm saying do it to know if it works
religion makes claims impossible to know or prove; this is the difference
@MoDeeSeventyThree "religion makes claims impossible to know or prove; this is the difference"
--This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
@MoDeeSeventyThree "religion makes claims impossible to know or prove, this is the difference"
--This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
@mypolicy9 at no time do I contradict myself; you can't look past your own bias to see what I am saying; and you haven't answered my question; what is this truth that you will stick to;
--Yes you do. You say that what Tolle teaches isn't true, but then say that it IS true. This is not my delusion. The problem is yours. Please get it right. Nothing can be both true and false since this violates the Law of non-contradiction. When you cast the pursuit of truth away in favor of what "feels right," you become untethered from the Truth altogether. Truth is not subjective. Truth is one.
@mypolicy9 please quote where I stated that what Tolle teaches "isn't true"...you make no points...only empty critiques of what others write....again I will ask, which truth do you prefer as you mentioned in your first post....i've read your other comments and ....well....I feel bad for you
"Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true"
--If Eckhart is not making a case he wants others to accept as 'factually true,' then we have no good reason to believe him. After all, it's not even true.
"which truth do you prefer"
--Truth is not a preference. I don't get to "choose" whether the Earth is round. It just is.
@mypolicy9 ok, I omit "factually true" and want to keep "ideologically true"; understand now; you try too hard to be smart; I'm betting you don't have many friends
@MoDeeSeventyThree There are not different "kinds" of truth. The claims "Mary was a Virgin" or "the Earth is Round" are not true in one sense but false in another. They are just true or false. And they can't be both true and false because that is a contradiction. I strongly recommend taking a basic Logic 101 course
"try too hard to be smart"
--I don't "try" anything. I just won't let u get away with nonsense.There are rules governing intelligible discourse, which u consistently break!!
--By asserting contradictions!! How many times do I need to demonstrate your complete lapse of critical thinking in these discussions?
Please get a logic 101 textbook for freshman; read it thoroughly, and do the exercises at the end of each chapter. I'm serious. The depth of this discussion has so far remained incredibly shallow because I have to consistently correct your elementary blunders.
@mypolicy9 you obviously share something in common with religious people...complete and utter delusion; at no point did I make contradictions (you are seeing something that isn't there); I am trying to articulate a point that you refuse to address as well as my questions posed to you; considering my vast studies in philosophy, law, etc., the last thing I need is to study elementary explanations of logical thinking intended for the laymen like yourself
@mypolicy9 teens would call what you just wrote a logic FAIL, read my other post explaining your dishonest quoting; It is not my view that "there is no way to know if it is actually true" ....i'm saying that many religious people would say that to explain the lack of evidence
@mypolicy9 ""If religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology"""
all of this is not from my mouth but from Caholics...yes even the part that says there is no way to know...you are reading it as if I am commenting on the XYZ statement...read it as if it came from one priest
@MoDeeSeventyThree But Catholics DON'T say this--at least that is not the view of the Holy Mother Church. We are not "Fiedists." We believe we can know God through reason our reason and intellect.
@mypolicy9 don't say what? I was raised catholic, and I know what I've been taught and I know what priests and teachers have told me in response to my questions; they may not be what a Catholic theologian would say; but that would be an indictment of the Catholic Church for not having a coherent interpretation of Catholic teachings and biblical writings
@MoDeeSeventyThree "they may not be what a Catholic theologian would say; but that would be an indictment of the Catholic Church for not having a coherent interpretation of Catholic teachings and biblical writings"
--Just because someone taught you the wrong thing, doesn't indict the right thing. Fool. According to your logic, if your physics teacher tells you the wrong thing, namely, that the Earth is flat, does that mean the teaching that the earth is round becomes "indicted". No.
--Why does it fail? Prove it. This is logic, so you need to prove it. My argument is both valid and sound since I derived a contradition from your own assertion.
@mypolicy9 your inability to grasp what I've written is painfully obvious as you continue to make meaningless points & critiques about imagined things I've written; all I tried to do was explain my original point & you keep going over the same non sequitur; while not making any sense in the context of my posts and refusing to answer any questions; so because I have no idea what your point is, I will not be responding to your lunacy anymore; so go continue to hide in your little dark apartment
--WHAT non-sequiter are even talking about? Show it.
"refusing to answer any questions"
--I answered your questions. Liar. Go back over our posts, because you either skipped it, or you can't read.
"have no idea what your point is"
--The point is that this discussion can't even get off the ground because you have zero logical skills. Learn to think before you speak because you're making a fool of yourself.
@MoDeeSeventyThree You're a lying coward. Grow up. The fact that you have to resort to lying shows the weakness of character. You've already lied twice now.
@mypolicy9 the difference in what Tolle and the Buddha teach as compared to religion, is what I'm trying to explain, which for some odd reason you cannot process
These Buddhist teaching simply says, try living life a certain way and you will not experience "suffering" as you previously did; simply reading the teaching and "believing" them is pointless; you must put the teaching into practice to know it is true; there is no ideology to buy into
@MoDeeSeventyThree "These Buddhist teaching simply says, try living life a certain way and you will not experience "suffering" as you previously did; simply reading the teaching and "believing" them is pointless"
--But every religious leader says this, including Christ. There's nothing novel here. And people from any religious background can be happy in this life. So even if you your practical guidlines work for some, so do the practical guidlines of any other faith. So what?
@mypolicy9 no they don't; Catholic doctrines say gay marriage is bad; premarital sex is bad; condom use is bad; abortion is always bad; stem cell research bad; raping boys is ok; (ok, the last one wasn't fair, they don't actually say it...they imply it);
they also make miracle claims; resurrection claims; virgin birth claims; assumption of mary claims;
none of them can be proven or speak to our logical and rational understanding of what is possible and what isn't
@MoDeeSeventyThree "they also make miracle claims; resurrection claims; virgin birth claims; assumption of mary claims;"
--And these are known to be true. Again, what you say is false.
"none of them can be proven"
--Nothing is "proven." The phenomenon of proof is only found in Logic, Set-Theory, and Mathematics. Prove to the external world exists. You can't. How do you know you're not a brain in a vat, &that everything that you think is real is an illusion induced in your brain?
@MoDeeSeventyThree " ok, so you are suggesting that these claims are "known to be true...now I know you are bat shit crazy....end of discussion"
--Ta-da! And the presumption rears its ugly head! Just because you don't know whether something is true, doesn't entail we don't know it is true. In order to claim THAT, you need an argument for why x, y, and z are not known to be true.
@mypolicy9 first, I'm confident that they are not true because we have scarce evidence that they are; also because I don't believe it is possible to walk on water; second, you don't know it is true because of lack of evidence;
@MoDeeSeventyThree " first, I'm confident that they are not true because we have scarce evidence;"
--Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So this is false. Second, science is not the source of knowledge. We can have knowledge through reason, math, probability, inductive inference.
" I don't believe it is possible to walk on water; "
--I don't care. I think it IS possible. There's nothing inherently logically contradictory about suspending the Physical law of gravity.
@mypolicy9 so you are taking an account in an old book from people who routinely wrote in a style know as midrash from thousands of years ago when people also commonly believed crazy things; this was the pre-scientific era; no one to the best of our knowledge (other than maybe the countless dead gods of mythology) has since walked on water and it cannot be demonstrated today that someone can
yet, based on this you still think its possible????
@MoDeeSeventyThree Lol. Yes you can, too, prove "a negative." This atheist babble you picked up from the internet is wrong.
For example, I can show there are no more Tyrannosaurus Rex living on earth. I can show there are no Hare Krishnas in the United States congress. I can show that I don't have a pet.
@mypolicy9 your example is flawed; you cannot prove the impossibility of something that never existed, something that was never known to exist;
men have never walked on water
T-Rexs did exist and they are no longer here; how can we prove that? well, we know they became extinct; we have been to every corner of the earth and no one has seen one; so its safe to say that T-rexs no longer exist
@MoDeeSeventyThree No, dumbass. I think miracles are possible with the intervention of a supernatural agent. That's what a miracle IS. I don't think people fly naturally. Idiot.
@MoDeeSeventyThree And one more thing. If a miracle is impossible, then prove it. You can't? uh, oh. Did the toilet flush? Miracles are certainly possible.
@mypolicy9 while you enjoy your Sundays in Church believing that someone is looking down on you; as you teach your children how to hate others for being the way nature made them; and condemn others for no reason; as you teach your children bigotry, hate and bronze aged myths; as you give more money to your Church while not opposing their despicable behavior in recent years and in doing so are complicit in the covering up of and protection of vile virgins who raped little helpless boys
@MoDeeSeventyThree Please. We are all aware of the people's mistakes. Spare me your Anti-Catholicism Hate speech. Grow up. Stop lying. And learn how to use your brain for once. Your verbal abuse is a substitute for you capacity to think, and is a direct function of your hatred of the Body of Christ.
@mypolicy9 I'll be thinking of you wacky mypolicy9 and Transubstantiation the next time I see my relatives go up to eat their crackers and drink their wine...bye
@MoDeeSeventyThree Don't flatter yourself, Mo. In light of your smug intolerance, I strongly recommed asking yourself why you feel the need to lie all the time. What are you hiding, and Who is that you're hiding from? It's time to let go of your sin in the face of Christ who is the Truth, the Resurrection, and the Life.
@MoDeeSeventyThree I will be teaching my daughter about equality in all people; about compassion; about love; about selflessness and about living in the world for the betterment of everyone; I will be teaching her about the importance of using logic and reason and about the dangers of credulity; I will be teaching her not to belittle others for for their sexual orientation and not to judge others;
@MoDeeSeventyThree I will be teaching her that the dream of heaven and greatness is ours here and now and on this earth and not waiting for us in our graves
@MoDeeSeventyThree "have been to every corner of the earth and no one has seen one; so its safe to say that T-rexs no longer exist"
--right, because we have strong evidence today that T-Rex no longer exists. It is not that we lack evidence either way and then conclude T-Rex doesn't exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!!
@mypolicy9 I'm not either, you made the stuff up or are delusional; i've explained your mistake and you keep harping on an old point; read the posts; i've explained it at least 2 more times
@mypolicy9 religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology; believe in it even though there is scarce evidence
so...now that I have explained this further; do you still have a problem with it?
@MoDeeSeventyThree "religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology"
--Then your ideology is false. It is a result of your fatalistic philosophy of life "No one knows the Truth, so stop trying to figure it out and just learn to be happy." I completely disagree. Knowing the Truth is essential for right conduct and deep long-lasting Joy. Without knowing the Truth, we go astray. Your counsel is "If X makes you happy, then do it." No.
@MoDeeSeventyThree " if Mary gave birth to a child, then its impossible that she was a virgin; this I know is actually true"
--You hypocrite. You just said we don't know whether ideologicaly claims X, Y, Z are true--and that this skepticism is your ideology. But then you claim to know that Mary wasn't a virigin because she gave birth to a child. This is inconsistent with your own "ideology." You're not even allowed to make that claim because your ideology forbids it. Lol!
What happened to the first part of this video?????
AbdielAbiram 4 weeks ago
Eckhart Tolle Teachings claimed a copyright violation on part one of this video. It was removed. WTF?
motomambo 2 months ago in playlist Fr. Rob 2
@motomambo I agree! WTF?! The Guru can't bear contradiction! The emperor has no clothes!
PhoenixLament87 1 month ago
This is a perfect example of a human being who has never tasted honey offering learned arguments about honey. The man knows a lot--but he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Elzbiets 4 months ago
Eckhart Tolle also says that he "believes" that what Jesus Christ was really teaching was the divinity in everyone. Maybe that's the case, who knows, but he still has a belief about it and that means he believes he's right.
687070 5 months ago
(irishgirl428, mikeadkins[dot]com/article/father-barron-on-eckhart-tolles-a-new-earth-awakening-to-your-lifes-purpose-part-2/ ). I think her comment is worth looking at.
The second thing: I haven't noticed if Tolle was attacking catholics.
greenJoker8 5 months ago
About "truth claims" - this time I will cite someone else: "Father Barron, Eckhart Tolle makes it very clear in his book that if what he is saying does not resonant with an individual then that’s okay. In no way is he saying “I’m right and if you don’t believe me, you are wrong”. Totally the opposite, which is why me, as a Catholic, can finally breathe and feel like I’m not be forced to believe absolutely in any one religion or dogma. It actually makes me feel better about being Catholic."
greenJoker8 5 months ago
@greenJoker8 I don't think Eckhart Tolle does say it's ok if you disagree with him. What he does say is that his books will either resonate with you, or they will be meaningless. Very black and white. Also, if you think they are meaningless, then that means you are not ready for it. Slightly insulting I would say. He discounts the fact that we might agree with some of what he says, but not all, and why should we? We are all unique.
687070 5 months ago
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Elzbiets 4 months ago
Just some thoughts......
No need criticise others when you behave the same way (truth telling) yes that is a point.
Yet his books are about meditation and I've read one book and it has helped.
We are our best when not bitching. We must believe in ourselves and do what is right or respond in right way. We can't float on a cloud that is not grounded in truth.
Peace
myfanwyd2005 5 months ago
Eckhart Tolle is Satan manifested in the flesh.
Watch my video in my profile.
Yaylin2 6 months ago
Truth is beyond words, I only hear you when your silent
micfiend409 6 months ago
@micfiend409 Then why are you using words?!
wordonfirevideo 6 months ago
@wordonfirevideo To point to the truth, knowing at the same time that they are not truth themselves.
micfiend409 6 months ago
Here is the subtle thing: All of Tolle's ideas are only there to be used temporarily and then dropped. What are they to be used for? To move beyond thought. To move beyond a sense of identity which is made partly out of "I believe this and that." And why would we want to do that? Well, in my experience when I do that I feel peace, joy, love in ways I never imagined. And the people who listen to Tolle go by instinct: They *feel* they *sense* that he has gone beyond thought, and expresses love.
whatyouwantyouare 7 months ago
Also, I get your point about (paraphrase): "Well Tolle is expressing what he thinks is true too, is he not? And everyone who thinks they are right about something thinks others are wrong." So it would seem: " If I am right then you must be wrong ... " so it would seem. It would seem Tolle is explaining ideas which we can believe or not believe. (cont'd)
And indeed, if we turn those into beliefs, then it is just like another Religion.
whatyouwantyouare 7 months ago
Hi Father Barron. I enjoy your videos a lot - there's a quality and thoughtfulness there. And I can see you really enjoy the conceptual side as well as the spiritual side of things. Me too. When you say "what we want is salvation, which is a whole transformation of the self in Christ". Can you elaborate there? I think *that* is precisely the common point of contact with Tolle's teachings. That's the whole deal. The question is then: HOW? And, what are the obstructions? There you may differ.
whatyouwantyouare 7 months ago
Is God someone or something. What I read is that God is not a man (Hos 11:9). God is Spirit (Joh 4:24), God is also Love...these are more like something than someone. If God was someone then why does he not come to us and show him. Surely He could spare a minute and show him on TV. It is because we are told that God is someone that so many people moves away from God as it does not show a loving God.
tjboats7 7 months ago
@tjboats7 God is certainly someone, but that doesn't mean that he can appear on TV! To say that God is a person is to say that he is endowed with intellect, will, freedom, and purpose. But God is a spirit, who transcends matter.
wordonfirevideo 7 months ago
This hypocrisy of the new-age movement is typical. You detected it with infallible logic: Eckhart DOES make a truth claim, of course he does. But he, unlike the Church, is not honest about it. He pretends to not be exclusivistic and ideological, but that is STILL a truth claim; people fail to see it. Logic escapes people. I'm a Buddhist and I think many things in Christianity are valid, but still obviously I must think Buddhism is "more right" or else why would I be one?
SeracRavel 9 months ago
yip he misses the point completely
billsang1 11 months ago
@billsang1 And I'm sure you'll be delighted to share this exquisitely subtle point that I've missed.
wordonfirevideo 11 months ago
I think he misses Eckhart's message completely! He is so identified with the Christian ideology that his sense of self depends on it. His story is based on the belief in Christianity. To become enlightened in the way that Eckhart discusses he needs to look beyond that story.
bitphr3ak 11 months ago
@bitphr3ak I don't know, friend, but it sounds like your sense of self is pretty tied to an ideology as well! I always find that psychologizing about one's opponent isn't very productive. Tell me where you think my argument is wrong.
wordonfirevideo 11 months ago
@wordonfirevideo Eckhart's teachings are just pointers, they just aim to the truth, so the contain on them is not the thruth itself, is not to be conceptualized, once you analize it you miss it, hence is not an ideology, an ideology is something created by the human mind, truth can't be found withing the mind. You just become and observer, which is to say using all your senses fully, living only in the present moment.
666TNB 8 months ago
@wordonfirevideo Jesus once said “Look carefully at the wild lilies. See its long stem. Its white petals. How lovely. How delicate. Can you feel its stem in your fingers? Can you smell its fragrance as you bring it up to your nose?
666TNB 8 months ago
@666TNB But that's not what he said about the lillies! He said that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed like one of these. His point was that God is provident over the whole of his creation. Jesus was not a Buddhist!
wordonfirevideo 8 months ago
@wordonfirevideo Jesus wasn't a buddhist or wasn't he part of any religion, he teached us the beauty and essence of life, labeling him buddhist or not buddhist just misses the essence of his teachings. And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing, truth is found in the lilies not in the human mind, observe it, touch it, feel it, that will bring you to the timeless truth which is vaster than any conceptual thinking.
666TNB 8 months ago
@bitphr3ak Ah but once you have found Christ there is no greater truth or story to be found. Christ can not be looked past, only looked through. Christ as our prism upon the world helps us to make sense of everything.
MrWildbill20056 5 months ago
@MrWildbill20056 - Sorry, but I disagree
bitphr3ak 5 months ago
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Elzbiets 4 months ago
empty words..human like, not spiritual...no connectivity. eckhart tolle rings deep truth and liveness
mavika2zoe 1 year ago
Part five: This, I accept is my own belief system and it may be flawed or the easy way out but it works for me and it makes me a better person at the core. And for that I am truly greatful to all spiritual teachers of the past. And I believe (although I'm not sure if it's blasphemy) that once sin is completely out, we do become as Jesus was (a pure channel through which God does His work), a son of Man and God. The only choice we have in life is to seek truth or want to be right. Much love
bodolax 1 year ago
Part four: It is there and that is the truth. There is sin (obstacle to love) in me right now. Seeing without beating yourself for failing and accepting it for what it is, it will be dissolved (I think through the grace of God). When sins are dissolved we become as Jesus was and as he wanted us to be not because we worked to be like him but because we accepted ourselves and looked within without judging and condemning. The light of God dissolves sin and slowly guides us home. Not guilt, not fear
bodolax 1 year ago
Part three: I have tried to change in the past. I have seen what I was lacking and I forced myself into being more loving, compassionate, accepting, etc. It never worked. In fact, it fed the obstacle and made it bigger and made me a hypocrite. Based on my own experience, although I am not completely free of sin (obstacles to letting love, God work through me) I think that the right way is to see and accept that whatever sin I have, it is there. Don't run away from it, don't push it down.
bodolax 1 year ago
Part two: In my humble opinion, I believe one should be first true to one self. If I don't have the love Jesus wants me to have in my heart for myself and my fellow man it it better to see and accept the fact fully. Then (this again is my personal experience and the new age theory that backs it up) change happens by itself. There is no effort. By seeing the obstacle to love and accepting it, it dissolves by itself. That is the miracle.
bodolax 1 year ago
I agree that Tolle, much like everyone else, has their opinion and personal experience on what the truth is. What I really like about the 'new age' gurus is the idea that, yes, this is my version of truth but, if you don't believe me, you're not going to hell for eternity. This is my biggest turn off with the church. Underneath all the talk about love and salvation, the undercurrent is one of fear and guilt. And I, for one, cannot love someone I fear. Much love
bodolax 1 year ago
@bodolax Thanks for sharing.
whatyouwantyouare 7 months ago
Fr Barron you are a very learned man and that is your greatest obstacle. You will not know God through your mind and ideas. Much love
bodolax 1 year ago
@bodolax Not through ideas alone. But I reject the view that religion has to involve the surrender of reason, for that opens to door to all forms of fundamentalism.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago 5
Dear Fr. Barron,
I (also) found Tolle a little illogical with the double standard, as you say, "Oh, you religious people with your obsessions with truth." He does just the same as any one. You're right. It's just hard for some people to find out what is correct. My friends, for example, find that they should expect to be wrong about a belief simply as a matter of probability. So, they see people wildly stitching multiple ideas, and conclude better odds with more ideas. It's absurd.
Guy1b 1 year ago
I can't accept Christian/Catholic views when all you guys do is fight among yourselves about what is true. I've found that if something in the Bible doesn't make sense, I read the esoteric texts and in going back to the Bible, things are more clear. I think what all religions are missing is each other. To bad everyone's to busy defending their version of truth to see it. I can't wait till' the walls come crashing down and we see the value in all teachings as a whole.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
@ActiveMerkaba Do you give up on politics because politicians routinely fight with each other? Do you give up on art because art critics regularly disagree? Do you give up on baseball because Yankee fans fight with Red Sox fans? Come on.
wordonfirevideo 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo God, to me is much more than Politics. Art I believe is an extension of God and sorry, I 'm not a baseball fan LOL. I'm not implying that I give up on my fellow brothers and sisters. Every major religion has inner and outer teachings. This is nothing new, but unfortunately, the inner teachings hold the keys to understanding the outer teachings and because they've been held from the mainstream people for so long, text like the Bible are largely misunderstood.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo I can say this for certain because after studying the inner mysteries for some time I went to a relative who's Chatholic Monk and after he was convinced I knew what I was talking about, he admitted that in fact, they do study the inner mysteries but hold it from the public because the church believes people aren't ready. What's interesting is that Eckhart and many others are dead on with what we talked about that day. He then congratulated me for understanding the big picture.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
As you've said, Tolles' work seems to be right on with regards to the workings of the human dysfunction but you can't accept that he makes God impersonal. The inner teachings ay that God is the manifest and the unmanifest, negative and possitive. God is all of it. God is personal in that God resides within you, and yet is impersonal in that God is part of everyone and everthing else too. When we dumb something as immense as "GOD" down to a word and defend the word, we lose the point.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
@ActiveMerkaba Is not the eternal trouble of men that they see God in them where God is not?
benabaxter 1 year ago
@benabaxter Everyone certainly has the right to believe what feels right to them and I certain don't mean to challenge your personal truth, I' ve found SEVERAL referances in the Bible to God being within. “Do you not know that you too are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?” - 1 Corinthians 3:16 Is just one of many. The Bible also refers to the Still, small voice with reference to Divine consciousness speaking to us from within. That parable is about calming the mind to hear it.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
@benabaxter I only point this out becaue for me, I have found this connection within and converse with God all the time. I'm noone special, we ALL have this divine connection. Man is struggling because we've been taught that God isn't part of us. This of course because the churches needed to establish themselves as toll booths between us and God in order to fullfill their own agendas. The Gospels of Thomas are very clear about not needing church or religion and that God is in and all around us.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
Eckhart delivers a much more direct aproach to understanding the dysfunctions of the mind. As one who sees the value in all ancient teachings, I don't think the problem is as much about Jesus being false or wrong. It's that we are told we are going to hell for not accepting Christ as the ONLy way to Heaven. I've had many Christians tell me Mother Teresa, The Dali Lama and many others are going to hell. Religous people do more to turn people away from God through fear than anyone.
ActiveMerkaba 1 year ago
I say this to you, type into youtube ,why did the english civil war start. religious tossers was just a personal opinion. why are we at war now?.in religion, there was a start point ,then people created their own views, if you lived in another culture ,you would have a different view,no different to why bad girls like bad girls and why, nice girls like nice guys,its mind conditioning.
what do i have to be threatened about? my problem has already been stated, do i need to repeat myself?
smurfaroo1 1 year ago
@smurfaroo1 "what do i have to be threatened about?"
--You feel threatened because he is critical of Tolle. So you react by attacking Religion and the Church en masse. This is an Ad Hominem Abusive Fallacy. Look it up. Attacking people doesn't help your case, and it has nothing to do with what Barron said in the video at all.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
@smurfaroo1 Wars start because of greed & the lust for power. They are caused by people, not necessarily doctrine. Christian teaching of the Sermon on the Mount preaches Universal Love of one's enemies. How does that start a war??? Your hasty generalization that ALL religion is responsible for war is your biased interpretation of history. You can delude yourself all you want, but until I see actual data supporting this CAUSAL connection you claim, your Anti-Religious fantasies can take a hike.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
eckhart tolle teachings threatened, judgmental, starting wars? nope
father barron teachings threatened, judgmental, starting wars? uh ha!
smurfaroo1 1 year ago
@smurfaroo1 Ha!! Yeah, like Father Barron's teaching is "judgmental," "threating" and "starting wars." Where do you guys get off? This itself is a ridiculously false judgment. Take your Anti-Catholic Hate somewhere else.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 LOL dude if he wasnt threatened ,why does this video exist?
this video is also judging eckhart, oh and now you are going to tell me it was buddists that started world war., how about you take your cathlic hate somewhere else, i seach eckhart tolle and all i get is religious tossers trying to debate him.
smurfaroo1 1 year ago
@smurfaroo1 lol! Since when does someone have to feel threatened in order to make a video about his views on some matter? I can only wonder about your own motives for deciding to post something here. You think Father Barron is threatening obviously because there was something about what he said that made YOU feel threatened. Tell me. What is it that threatens you about this harmless priest making a video?
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@smurfaroo1 "religious tossers"? "starting world war"?
Sounds like someone needs a reality check!
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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"you cannot prove a negative; prove I cannot fly; stupid."
--If you cannot prove that flying is impossible, then how do you know flying is impossible. Idiot.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree Now you are lying about lying when the proof of your lies are recorded for all time in these posts. Coward.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
""If religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology"""
---You made this statement, but then later denied making this statement. Yes, you are a liar.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 read the other posts...take the second sentence as coming from the same Catholic who made the first
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree Liar.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 did you learn that argument in your vast studies?
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree " youare the one that made the speculation that what I was taught was wrong"
--I am saying that whatever it was that you were taught, if it was contrary to what was contained in the CCC, then it is contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree --Just because someone taught you the wrong thing, doesn't indict the right thing. Fool. According to your logic, if your physics teacher tells you the wrong thing, namely, that the Earth is flat, does that mean the teaching that the earth is round becomes "indicted". Not at all.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 how can you say which Catholic teaching is right and which is wrong; they are both coming from Catholics; who decides?
maybe you are one of the ones who was taught incorrectly?
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "how can you say which Catholic teaching is right and which is wrong. they are both coming from Catholics"
--With arguments, both past and present. In case you haven't heard, that's what theologians do!
"maybe you are one of the ones who was taught incorrectly?
--And maybe we were the ones taught correctly? Where does this speculation get you? Nowhere, not without an argument.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 youare the one that made the speculation that what I was taught was wrong
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree " youare the one that made the speculation that what I was taught was wrong"
--I am saying that whatever it was that you were taught, if it was contrary to what was contained in the CCC, then it is contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree The correct teaching of the Holy Mother Church is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Ignorant Catholics are wrong about what they teach if is contrary to what is contained in the Catechism which is a collection of the efforts of 2000 years of theology.
If don't already know this, then I'm sorry for your lack of education. It is time for you to start reading Church History and Theology.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 I don't need to waste my time with it; its pointless and of no consequence; I wouldn't call it education; I would call it a waste of paper; to write countless drivel over fairy tales
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree " I don't need to waste my time with it; its pointless and of no consequence; I wouldn't call it education; I would call it a waste of paper; to write countless drivel over fairy tales"
--That's not an argument. These kinds of childish polemics get you nowhere. Don't waste my time if you nothing intelligent to say.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "That evidence would not hold up in any other discourse"
--Who says? You? I guess you can choose to ignore all the hot debates on this issue, but that doesn't give you license to say the evidence is not compelling for belief--because it is--for both historians and biblical scholars.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 that evidence would not hold up in any other discourse; ever here of midrash
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree " that evidence would not hold up in any other discourse; ever here of midrash"
--Who says? You? I guess you can choose to ignore all the hot debates on this issue, but that doesn't give you license to say the evidence is not compelling for belief--because it is. For both historians and biblical scholars.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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"religion makes claims impossible to know or prove; this is the difference"
--This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "a truth one must conclude for themselves based on their own experience"
--But one's own experience is not always the surest guide to the truth, nor is it the fundamental basis of it.The person of Christ is that basis. If I drew conclusions in my life always based on how I felt, then I become my own infalllible God. But I am not God. I learn more about my own blind spots from correct teachings & other persons, not by turning inward & locating some feeling like Tolle does.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 this is where we disagree; turning inward and looking at the process of our thinking and how and why we react to things; people; situations, etc is invaluable; the very lack of this process is the cause of many ills in the world; because many people obtain answers about the world on an old book;
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@wordonfirevideo Tolle has it backwards. True immanence lies in Transcendence, not transcendence in immanence. A "path" based on the least common denominator in religions is the path of least resistance since it is grounded in subjectivity, not objectivity, & so the final outcome of this cherry-picking approach is an ooze of ideas adapted to one's own false self. We find ourselves in Christ, not Christ in ourselves--otherwise, we are idolizing our image of Christ, not Christ Himself.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
wow, this priest sounded intelligent up until 3:30... he should have thought this through more...the church and religion tries to impose beliefs, ideology and state those things are the truth...Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true....he says the same thing as the Buddha said...i'm not teaching a belief....it is something you have to experience and know for yourself...nothing to believe in
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true"
--Well, if what Eckhart says isn't true, then why should anyone believe it? No thanks. I'll stick with the truth.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 first, there is nothing to believe..the teachings are not about beliefs...he has explanations as to why people behave the way they do...his teachings are about experience; they are about a shift in the way you interact with life and others; you only know the truth in it through living it; just like Buddhist teachings
to your last remark "no thanks. I'll stick with the truth"....what truth? whose truth? and how do you know it is true?
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree I will ask again: If what Eckhart says isn't true, then why should I take it seriously? It is false.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 in fact what he says is true, but to know it is you must experience it for yourself; nothing is taken at face value; there is no credulity here, unlike the fantastical claims of Christianity, especially the perverted doctrines of Catholicism
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree Oh, so now what Eckhart teaches IS true? But you said,
"Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true"
So which is it? Is it true or not? Sorry, friend, this very contradictory nonsense you're delivering is the perversion. After all, you're not even sure what it is that you believe.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 he is not proposing a belief system or an ideology; the truth he speaks of is a truth one must conclude for themselves based on their own experience, not because it is contained in a book; you seem to equate his teachings as the antithesis to Catholicism; it is not; Christianity is a religious ideology that requires a certain level of credulity; Tolle's work contains no dogmas, doctrines or belief system, just a shift in how you relate to people, thoughts & events in life
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "the truth he speaks of is a truth one must conclude for themselves based on their own experience"
--But one's own experience is not always the surest guide to the truth, nor is it the fundamental basis of it. The person of Christ is that basis. If I drew conclusions in my life always based on how I felt, then I become my own infalllible God. But I am not God.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "Tolle's work contains no dogmas, doctrines or belief system"
--Of course it does. If it didn't, he wouldn't have a anything to teach. But he does teach something. That something that he teaches is a belief system, even it is only practical guidelines about how best to achieve this or that, and those practical guidelines can be true or false. They thus either fully represent the human condition in its entirely, or they don't. THAT is what deserves investigation
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 if I tell you that doing 100 situps a day will give you great abs; I'm not trying to teach you something to take on faith; I'm saying do it to know if it works
religion makes claims impossible to know or prove; this is the difference
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "religion makes claims impossible to know or prove; this is the difference"
--This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "religion makes claims impossible to know or prove, this is the difference"
--This is false. Religion makes claims that are both possible to know, and to demonstrate as either true or false. We have sufficient evidence from the Gospels, Paul's Letters, and other historical sources and methodology, to know Christ rose from the dead. The evidence is sufficient to compel rational belief.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "antithesis to Catholicism"
--That's not my immediate problem with it.. The problem is that it is directly antithetical to the foundation of logic and clear thinking.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 at no time do I contradict myself; you can't look past your own bias to see what I am saying; and you haven't answered my question; what is this truth that you will stick to;
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "at no time do I contradict myself;"
--Yes you do. You say that what Tolle teaches isn't true, but then say that it IS true. This is not my delusion. The problem is yours. Please get it right. Nothing can be both true and false since this violates the Law of non-contradiction. When you cast the pursuit of truth away in favor of what "feels right," you become untethered from the Truth altogether. Truth is not subjective. Truth is one.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 please quote where I stated that what Tolle teaches "isn't true"...you make no points...only empty critiques of what others write....again I will ask, which truth do you prefer as you mentioned in your first post....i've read your other comments and ....well....I feel bad for you
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree --Now you're lying too? Here is your quote:
"Eckhart is not making a case that what he says is ideologically or factually true"
--If Eckhart is not making a case he wants others to accept as 'factually true,' then we have no good reason to believe him. After all, it's not even true.
"which truth do you prefer"
--Truth is not a preference. I don't get to "choose" whether the Earth is round. It just is.
"I feel bad for you"
--Oh spare me the condescension
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 ok, I omit "factually true" and want to keep "ideologically true"; understand now; you try too hard to be smart; I'm betting you don't have many friends
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree There are not different "kinds" of truth. The claims "Mary was a Virgin" or "the Earth is Round" are not true in one sense but false in another. They are just true or false. And they can't be both true and false because that is a contradiction. I strongly recommend taking a basic Logic 101 course
"try too hard to be smart"
--I don't "try" anything. I just won't let u get away with nonsense.There are rules governing intelligible discourse, which u consistently break!!
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 your response makes no sense when you consider what you responded to; how do I consistently break these rules????
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree " how do I consistently break these rules????"
--By asserting contradictions!! How many times do I need to demonstrate your complete lapse of critical thinking in these discussions?
Please get a logic 101 textbook for freshman; read it thoroughly, and do the exercises at the end of each chapter. I'm serious. The depth of this discussion has so far remained incredibly shallow because I have to consistently correct your elementary blunders.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 you obviously share something in common with religious people...complete and utter delusion; at no point did I make contradictions (you are seeing something that isn't there); I am trying to articulate a point that you refuse to address as well as my questions posed to you; considering my vast studies in philosophy, law, etc., the last thing I need is to study elementary explanations of logical thinking intended for the laymen like yourself
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree ? I am consistently showing your contradictions! Here's another one. QUOTE:
(1) "religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true"
(2) If there is no way of knowing X is true, then there is no way of knowing X is not true either. (Principle of Bivalence)
(3) So, there is no way of knowing whether X is not true.
(4) Your Quote: "I know Mary was not a virgin."
(5) Therefore, you both do and do not know Mary was not a virgin.
CONTRADICTION.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 teens would call what you just wrote a logic FAIL, read my other post explaining your dishonest quoting; It is not my view that "there is no way to know if it is actually true" ....i'm saying that many religious people would say that to explain the lack of evidence
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "teens would call what you just wrote a logic FAIL"
--Why does it fail? Prove it. This is logic, so you need to prove it. My argument is both valid and sound.
" It is not my view that "there is no way to know if it is actually true"
--Yes you DID!!! You're a LIAR! QUOTE AGAIN:
"If religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 ""If religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology"""
all of this is not from my mouth but from Caholics...yes even the part that says there is no way to know...you are reading it as if I am commenting on the XYZ statement...read it as if it came from one priest
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree But Catholics DON'T say this--at least that is not the view of the Holy Mother Church. We are not "Fiedists." We believe we can know God through reason our reason and intellect.
So what you say about Catholicims is false.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 don't say what? I was raised catholic, and I know what I've been taught and I know what priests and teachers have told me in response to my questions; they may not be what a Catholic theologian would say; but that would be an indictment of the Catholic Church for not having a coherent interpretation of Catholic teachings and biblical writings
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "they may not be what a Catholic theologian would say; but that would be an indictment of the Catholic Church for not having a coherent interpretation of Catholic teachings and biblical writings"
--Just because someone taught you the wrong thing, doesn't indict the right thing. Fool. According to your logic, if your physics teacher tells you the wrong thing, namely, that the Earth is flat, does that mean the teaching that the earth is round becomes "indicted". No.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "teens would call what you just wrote a logic FAIL"
--Why does it fail? Prove it. This is logic, so you need to prove it. My argument is both valid and sound.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "teens would call what you just wrote a logic FAIL"
--Why does it fail? Prove it. This is logic, so you need to prove it. My argument is both valid and sound since I derived a contradition from your own assertion.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 your inability to grasp what I've written is painfully obvious as you continue to make meaningless points & critiques about imagined things I've written; all I tried to do was explain my original point & you keep going over the same non sequitur; while not making any sense in the context of my posts and refusing to answer any questions; so because I have no idea what your point is, I will not be responding to your lunacy anymore; so go continue to hide in your little dark apartment
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "you keep going over the same non sequitur"
--WHAT non-sequiter are even talking about? Show it.
"refusing to answer any questions"
--I answered your questions. Liar. Go back over our posts, because you either skipped it, or you can't read.
"have no idea what your point is"
--The point is that this discussion can't even get off the ground because you have zero logical skills. Learn to think before you speak because you're making a fool of yourself.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 I haven't spoken once; are you hearing voices; that must be the voice of God
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "It is not my view that "there is no way to know if it is actually true"
--Yes you IS!!! You're a LIAR! QUOTE AGAIN:
"If religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 no, read the posts, i've already explained it;
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree You're a lying coward. Grow up. The fact that you have to resort to lying shows the weakness of character. You've already lied twice now.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 what lie? is your God telling you things again?
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 the difference in what Tolle and the Buddha teach as compared to religion, is what I'm trying to explain, which for some odd reason you cannot process
These Buddhist teaching simply says, try living life a certain way and you will not experience "suffering" as you previously did; simply reading the teaching and "believing" them is pointless; you must put the teaching into practice to know it is true; there is no ideology to buy into
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "These Buddhist teaching simply says, try living life a certain way and you will not experience "suffering" as you previously did; simply reading the teaching and "believing" them is pointless"
--But every religious leader says this, including Christ. There's nothing novel here. And people from any religious background can be happy in this life. So even if you your practical guidlines work for some, so do the practical guidlines of any other faith. So what?
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 no they don't; Catholic doctrines say gay marriage is bad; premarital sex is bad; condom use is bad; abortion is always bad; stem cell research bad; raping boys is ok; (ok, the last one wasn't fair, they don't actually say it...they imply it);
they also make miracle claims; resurrection claims; virgin birth claims; assumption of mary claims;
none of them can be proven or speak to our logical and rational understanding of what is possible and what isn't
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "they also make miracle claims; resurrection claims; virgin birth claims; assumption of mary claims;"
--And these are known to be true. Again, what you say is false.
"none of them can be proven"
--Nothing is "proven." The phenomenon of proof is only found in Logic, Set-Theory, and Mathematics. Prove to the external world exists. You can't. How do you know you're not a brain in a vat, &that everything that you think is real is an illusion induced in your brain?
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 "--And these are known to be true. Again, what you say is false." ok, so you are suggesting that these claims are "known to be true"
now I know you are bat shit crazy....end of discussion
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree " ok, so you are suggesting that these claims are "known to be true...now I know you are bat shit crazy....end of discussion"
--Ta-da! And the presumption rears its ugly head! Just because you don't know whether something is true, doesn't entail we don't know it is true. In order to claim THAT, you need an argument for why x, y, and z are not known to be true.
Where is that argument? You don't have one?
I rest my case.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 first, I'm confident that they are not true because we have scarce evidence that they are; also because I don't believe it is possible to walk on water; second, you don't know it is true because of lack of evidence;
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree " first, I'm confident that they are not true because we have scarce evidence;"
--Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So this is false. Second, science is not the source of knowledge. We can have knowledge through reason, math, probability, inductive inference.
" I don't believe it is possible to walk on water; "
--I don't care. I think it IS possible. There's nothing inherently logically contradictory about suspending the Physical law of gravity.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 so you are taking an account in an old book from people who routinely wrote in a style know as midrash from thousands of years ago when people also commonly believed crazy things; this was the pre-scientific era; no one to the best of our knowledge (other than maybe the countless dead gods of mythology) has since walked on water and it cannot be demonstrated today that someone can
yet, based on this you still think its possible????
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree Prove walking on water is impossible.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 you cannot prove a negative; prove I cannot fly; stupid
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree Lol. Yes you can, too, prove "a negative." This atheist babble you picked up from the internet is wrong.
For example, I can show there are no more Tyrannosaurus Rex living on earth. I can show there are no Hare Krishnas in the United States congress. I can show that I don't have a pet.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 your example is flawed; you cannot prove the impossibility of something that never existed, something that was never known to exist;
men have never walked on water
T-Rexs did exist and they are no longer here; how can we prove that? well, we know they became extinct; we have been to every corner of the earth and no one has seen one; so its safe to say that T-rexs no longer exist
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "you cannot prove the impossibility of something that never existed,"
--How do you know someone never flew? You don't. You weren't there to observe every single moment in time in the past.
So If you cannot prove that flying is impossible, then how do you know it is impossible. You don't. Fool
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 I'll leave it with your last comment; you believe people can fly...ok
i'm not going to waste my time with you anymore; thanks for making my sick day enjoyable; its been humorous to see how crazy our human species can be
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree No, dumbass. I think miracles are possible with the intervention of a supernatural agent. That's what a miracle IS. I don't think people fly naturally. Idiot.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree And one more thing. If a miracle is impossible, then prove it. You can't? uh, oh. Did the toilet flush? Miracles are certainly possible.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "men have never walked on water"
--How do you know this? Were you there when such reports were made?
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 while you enjoy your Sundays in Church believing that someone is looking down on you; as you teach your children how to hate others for being the way nature made them; and condemn others for no reason; as you teach your children bigotry, hate and bronze aged myths; as you give more money to your Church while not opposing their despicable behavior in recent years and in doing so are complicit in the covering up of and protection of vile virgins who raped little helpless boys
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree Please. We are all aware of the people's mistakes. Spare me your Anti-Catholicism Hate speech. Grow up. Stop lying. And learn how to use your brain for once. Your verbal abuse is a substitute for you capacity to think, and is a direct function of your hatred of the Body of Christ.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 I'll be thinking of you wacky mypolicy9 and Transubstantiation the next time I see my relatives go up to eat their crackers and drink their wine...bye
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree Don't flatter yourself, Mo. In light of your smug intolerance, I strongly recommed asking yourself why you feel the need to lie all the time. What are you hiding, and Who is that you're hiding from? It's time to let go of your sin in the face of Christ who is the Truth, the Resurrection, and the Life.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree I will be teaching my daughter about equality in all people; about compassion; about love; about selflessness and about living in the world for the betterment of everyone; I will be teaching her about the importance of using logic and reason and about the dangers of credulity; I will be teaching her not to belittle others for for their sexual orientation and not to judge others;
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree I will be teaching her that the dream of heaven and greatness is ours here and now and on this earth and not waiting for us in our graves
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree Go away. You forfeited this discussion along time ago because of your lying and your ad hominem attacks.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "have been to every corner of the earth and no one has seen one; so its safe to say that T-rexs no longer exist"
--right, because we have strong evidence today that T-Rex no longer exists. It is not that we lack evidence either way and then conclude T-Rex doesn't exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!!
mypolicy9 1 year ago
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@MoDeeSeventyThree "you cannot prove a negative; prove I cannot fly; stupid"
--If you cannot prove that flying is impossible, then how do you know flying is impossible. Idiot.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 it would be impossible to have an intelligent conversation with someone who requires you to suspend your intellect
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree I am not the one asserting logical contradictions, and then lying about what I say later just to cover my tracks.
Coward.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 I'm not either, you made the stuff up or are delusional; i've explained your mistake and you keep harping on an old point; read the posts; i've explained it at least 2 more times
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
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mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology; believe in it even though there is scarce evidence
so...now that I have explained this further; do you still have a problem with it?
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree "religion says; X, Y, Z is true; there is no way to know if it is actually true; this is our ideology"
--Then your ideology is false. It is a result of your fatalistic philosophy of life "No one knows the Truth, so stop trying to figure it out and just learn to be happy." I completely disagree. Knowing the Truth is essential for right conduct and deep long-lasting Joy. Without knowing the Truth, we go astray. Your counsel is "If X makes you happy, then do it." No.
mypolicy9 1 year ago
@mypolicy9 one last thing; if Mary gave birth to a child, then its impossible that she was a virgin; this I know is actually true
MoDeeSeventyThree 1 year ago
@MoDeeSeventyThree " if Mary gave birth to a child, then its impossible that she was a virgin; this I know is actually true"
--You hypocrite. You just said we don't know whether ideologicaly claims X, Y, Z are true--and that this skepticism is your ideology. But then you claim to know that Mary wasn't a virigin because she gave birth to a child. This is inconsistent with your own "ideology." You're not even allowed to make that claim because your ideology forbids it. Lol!
mypolicy9 1 year ago