Bottom line is they have a choice, something the religious brainwashers in many denomanations of christianity dont want you to have. They want to brainwash you to think you have no choice but to follow the deceitful path of the same spirit they themselves are lead by. And that spirit leads to greed and power, just with a cross stamped on it to make it ok (or so they think)!
Try twisting this scripture to defend your calvinistic view........Acts 2:37-40 emphasis on verse 40 which reads........"with many other words he (Paul) warned them;and he pleaded with them, "SAVE YOURSELVES from this corrupt generation!" How can a totality dead person save himself? And if he was already enabled/saved by God to repent, why is Paul warning them to repent and be saved?
Then you attack the errors of arminianism and try to say that you just refuted free will because you refuted a particular point to arminianism and arminianism teaches a form of free will. Thats deceitful, but thats what hardcore calvinist do to train (brainwash) the unlearned to believe and defend their erronious doctrine.
Calvinist/Calvinism does not have the answers. Your brainwashed. Just like all calvinist are brainwashed. Anyone who defends the bible against the particular heresies of calvinism (some things about calvinism are correct) are somehow now arminiasts. How convenient for you guys. You cant defend calvinisms errors on many points biblically, especially their view on free will, so your turn to what arminianism teaches and then falsely presume everyone who defends free will is an arminian.
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
Please don't think I am advocating total Arminianism.. but, they do have some points that I agree with.. and the same with Calvinism. I have heard great arguments, with Biblical scripture.. on both sides.
The scriptures say again and again.. "Believe and be saved"... so, we 'believe' first.. then we are saved... and at THAT time comes regeneration.. we are then, born-again of spirit.. and Christ's Righteousness is IMPUTED onto us.. so when God, the Father looks at us, He is looking through Jesus Christ.. as Christ acts as a veil over us.
God gives us free-will.. as His Love for us will not dominate His Will. Love is not forceful. Seems Calvinism is about getting the cart before the horse.
I thought God 'elected' to save those of whom desired salvation.. that it was freely offered to everyone.. that Jesus did what He did on the Cross and beyond, for everyone.. and that is a freely offered GIFT that we either accept, in order to have... or reject.
I made my profession of faith in Jesus Christ when I was 7.. in an Assembly of God church.. then, was baptized in a Southern Baptist church. I never know anything about Arminianism vs Calvinism up until a couple of years ago.
What chance do I have, when wise and learned men cannot agree on Christ's teachings? Men who have dedicated a lifetime to studying scripture, but still end up interpreting the same Bible in different ways?
I realy dont know all about cism and aism but I do know alittle bit about the scriptures Praise God Philippians 3:16 let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Im confused on who believes in predestinated salvation, but agian in Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained,either were already perfect: WAKE UP PEOPLE and get away from all these false teachings. Get back in the bible and back in prayer. Seek the Lord and his wisdom. Not the wisdom of men. God bless
I'll agree it's a view of man, but scripture absolutely supports it. If you think scripture does not support the doctrines of grace then your god is not the God of the Bible.
Limited Atonement is not "absolutely" supported in the Scriptures, but is a logical necessity for a Calvinist to be consistent with his theology.
A lot of twisting of the scriptures has to take place to say that the Bible supports Limited Atonement and that "God so loved the Elect, that He gave His only begotten Son..." and that "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only ours but of the sins of the whole group of us, the Elect" and that "Christ died for all (of the Elect)"
I'm not an Atheist and I've pointed out the fallacy of TULIP in my commentary on you tube. The 5 points of Calvinism: Bad Theology. If you'd like to respond to it you're welcome to. Most 5 pointers I've encountered have no answer to my arguments. 5 Point Calvinism denies the deity of Christ. Which is a dangerous thing to do.
The God of Calvinism is a schizophrenic cosmic tyrant. If "TULIP" truly summed up the gospel of Christ, I would want no part of it. Thankfully, I know that the gospel IS good news, not the news that God secretly hates most of the world and plans for them to die in sin. If any doctrine is a doctrine of demons, it is this because it slanders God.
I wish more Christians would get out of their comfort zone, so they could see for themselves that Calvinist consider the Arminian/Biblical gospel as HERESY! If the pastors would do their homework and see the importance of not allowing Calvinism into any part of the Gospel, Soteriology,
The Arminian view IS heresy and the Bible is clear about it. You cannot purge the Calvinist view from the gospel or you would strip the gospel of its biblical content as you did above in your comment. Your God is not big enough and you seem too preoccupied with a theological viewpoint to see what the scriptures really teach.
Mate, everyone says that the other side is too attached to a theology to consider the scriptures. Both systems (Calvin or Arminius) are flawed, but I'm not entirely sure that you fully understand either Historic or Post-modern Arminianism. Thus, I'm not entirely sure you are tackling the issue quite as thoroughly as you might. And you take a few liberties with the interpretations of scripture. But that's what dogmatic attachment to a particular theology will get you.
Both sides claim to have a lock on all truth, and that the Scriptures only support THEIR systematic theology.
But neither system, Calvin's or Arminius', can be supported fully Scripturally, without twisting something or committing eisogesis... they also both fail at some point if you take them to their logical ends.
Thank goodness Augustine FINALLY figured out what Paul was trying to say. All those silly theologians -- Polycarp and Ignatius, Clement and Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Tertullian -- those heretics didn't know what they were talking about.
And thank goodness God sent John Calvin into the world over a thousand years after Augustine to restore the original gospel, which apparently had been lost to those foolish, humanistic "free willers."
or the Christian life for that matter, we would see a great awaking in the body of Christ, and sinners would be saved to the true gospel, and people would be confident in their salvation not only because of their holy living but because they would know that Christ died for them and that they are in deed a "True" Christian. And they would know that when they are living in sin then they are going to hell, not being deceived by the doctrine of perseverance.
This was a great video Brett. Arminianism is nothing more than a self salvation man centered theology that is essentially a recrudescence of Pelagianism that is inconsistant with God's word.
Personally, I'm greatly encouraged to evangelize and preach the gospel precisely because of my Calvinist beliefs. For one, I'm guaranteed success! I know that God has an elect out there (who are my lost brothers and sisters) and He has appointed me, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to find them. And even if I toil for years without a convert, I know that I'm still glorify God, which is exactly what it's all about.
I don't know if what Arminuius taught was "man centered" or not, but the truth of free will is undeniable in scripture. I have heard that Arminius and Calvin actually taught the same thing, but from different points of view. Hebrews 6 is a warning to believers not to stop believing in Jesus. Jesus said in John 15 that if we do not remain in him, i.e. in faith, we will go to hell. Calvinists have yet to explain what point there is to preaching the gospel if God doesn't give us a choice.
"Calvinists have yet to explain what point there is to preaching the gospel if God doesn't give us a choice."
Baloney. We preach the gospel because we are commanded to. We preach the gospel for the glory of God. And we preach this gospel to all -- for the sake of the elect, and for judgment of those who refuse to repent.
How depressing and demoralizing must it be for the Arminian evangelist, preaching a man-centered gospel, to convince men of their sins without the help of God. What a burden.
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
so can anyone be saved by the arminian gospel that Christ died for your sins and its your choice to choose or reject him?
im young so bare with me i didn't know that Christianity was so split up like this except when i went on youtube its so many different doctrines and stuff.
The only gospel people can be saved by is the one taught in scripture. Read and study very carefully Matthew 27&28, Mark 15&16, Luke 23&24, John 19-21, and Romans 3. Talk to your pastor and elders and ask them questions about the gospel. As I said, there will be Arminians in heaven and there will be Calvinists in hell and vice-versa. No one's theology will qualify them or disqualify them. You must rely on Christ ALONE by grace ALONE through faith ALONE- no choices.
Amen! Calvinists are so intent on being right, that in their arrogance, they miss the truth of the love of God. This man is a Hyper Calvinist, and that is heresy... Hypers are not saved in my opinion.
You made the ridiculous statement that we as humans do not have free will at all. That is the classical heresy of the hyper Calvinists. Most mainline Calvinists believe in free will, but their understanding of it is flawed, especially when they try as you did to explain the Arminian teaching on free will. Free will in NO way denies or even subverts God's sovereignty, in fact, it confirms it. God chooses in His sovereignty to offer man a choice; accept Jesus and live, deny Him and perish.
Humans do not have free will -- at least not as the Arminian understands it. If men are born depraved, as I believe the Bible clearly teaches we are, then we are slaves to sin, so we are only "free" to do that which our fallen nature allows. Therefore, apart from God's grace, we can do no righteous deed (Rom. 3:10-11).
As for me being a hyper-Calvinist, I am not. Like most Arminians, you seem to have a difficult time differentiating between hyper-Calvinism and traditional Calvinism.
"God chooses in His sovereignty to offer man a choice; accept Jesus and live, deny Him and perish."
"Choice" implies works. But Ephesians 2:8-9 says: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Why are you teaching works-based salvation when such a viewpoint is clearly counter-Scriptural? I'm afraid I'm not the one teaching heresy here; you are.
AMEN! I'm a Calvinist (obviously!) but I don't agree with everything John Calvin said. For example he believed all babies and children who are too young to aknowlege Christ are going to hell.
Ouch. I never "google" anything to learn things like that. I'm sure you know that John Calvin is not the most popular historical person and people go to great lengths to discredit him and even spread lies. The internet is one of their primary tools.
What I meant was that you can probably find WHERE in his writings it says that if you search on google.... But I agree that you can't believe everything the internet says. By the way I like your intro. :)
"What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god."
I'll agree with him that man is surely a piece of work! However, the rest of his statement is arrogant and presumptuous and is the sentiment of a man who is spending an eternity in hell; not because of this statement, but because of his rejection of Christ and the free gift of eternal life.
Maybe, but if heaven is filled with the likes of Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson and the Fred Phelps sect I would surely choose hell. At least in hell your guaranteed to get some intelligent conversation.
There are probably many who have been famous as professing Christians who were not true believers- I won't make any of those judgements, but I can say that it would be hard for me to imagine that there is a place in heaven for the likes of Fred Phelps not because of what he says and does, but because he demonstrates unbelief in his actions. I'm not sure he relies on Christ alone for eternal life and only the rejection of Christ is punishable by eternal torment in hell.
What about Pat Robertson? You know the guy who said that the presence of Gay people at Disney World would cause earthquakes, tornados and possibly a meteor.
Repentent bigots, yes. Robertson? I'm not sure, but I can say he's out there and I don't see a lot of evidence that he knows the Christ of the Bible, but how can I know? I definitely would not hitch my wagon to him, though.
I believe both Calvinists and arminians make a big mistake; they both assume that the bible is one consistent thought. I believe this is incorrect and that different authors had different views of free will. This is why there is contradiction in the scripture.
You don't see any contradiction, but that's because you must interpret the use of words like "world," "all," "whosoever," "any," etc to only refer to the elect. This cannot be supported by the context of all of the verses.
When you take things out of proper context- yes you can see contradiction. You can also see contradiction through the eyes of unbelief and skepticism and by a desire to avoid what those truths would mean to you if you believed they were true and and had to deal with yourself as a result. I don't "interpret" anything. Scripture interprets itself and you should ask yourself why as an unbeliever you are so dead set against Calvinistic theology as an atheist- what does it matter?
Come on Brett. You have a doctrine, and therefore interpret scripture accordingly, just like the arminians do. You are so sure your doctrine is right, but you must use your doctrine to confirm your doctrine. This is circular reasoning.
It's the other way around. I had preconceived ideas when I first became a Christian- the scriptures changed many of my views. Scripture formed my doctrine; plain and simple.
Are you asking me to prove that the bible supports both arminian and calvinist teaching?
You should destroy me in this, as every calvinist has been trained to defend their doctrine. Arminians don't do this. You have talking points; I don't. But, I'll bite anyway.
Rediculous- You cannot interpret scripture without using other scripture to interpret it! Otherwise, you are only interpreting based on your own reason alone. That's one of the big mistakes Arminians make. I'm not here to destroy you, nor do I wish to defend Calvinist doctrine. I'm here to defend Christ. I don't play games with His word, nor do I wish to behave like a haughty high tower theologian. Find somebody else to play that game.
"You cannot interpret scripture without using other scripture to interpret it!"
Don't you see the problem with this? You can't read the bible for what it says. Instead, if a verse contradicts your doctrine, then you refute it with a verse that supports your doctrine and simply say, "you don't understand the verse."
Your doctrine then become more important than scripture, as it is the lens through which you read it.
Don't get me wrong, arminians have the exact same problem.
Yes, that does happen, but when it comes to the doctrines of grace you cannot escape what the Bible teaches on them. This is becoming more about you trying to get me to question Calvinism than anything else. So, let me put your mind at rest- I've done years of questioning Calvinism and started at the "that's not fair" point just like everybody else. I studied and studied and the scriptures changed my mind- not Calvin or my pastor or anyone else. Believe it or not.
Now, I believe there is little difference between predestination and foreknowledge, when the being with the knowledge is also the manipulator of the universe. This is demonstrated by Newcomb's Paradox.
For instance, have you ever wondered why god put the tree of knowledge in the middle of the garden? If the tree were at the edge, maybe Eve wouldn't have eaten it. So, if god knew that putting the tree in the middle of the garden would guarantee the sin, then he ultimately arranged the act.
Human reasoning and speculation- can't you do better than that? Come on- did you ignore the rest of my comment above? You keep accusing me of holding to my own beliefs with all my might as if I ignore what scripture says to hold to my ideas and yet, you do the very thing you accuse me of. Please, Steve, this is rediculous.
"Human reasoning and speculation- can't you do better than that?"
I don't believe the scriptures are inspired, so I can't use them. Reason is the only tool I can use here, and that's what I apply.
Since you hold to the bible, then I can use it to demonstrate that you are wrong. Likewise, since I hold to reason, you can use it to demonstrate that I am wrong.
That wasn't my point. My point is that you must use reason to convince me, not scripture. And, I must use scripture to convince you. In the end though, neither of us may be effective.
I can't do that and I won't do that. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. We can reason all day, everyday, and you would never come to true faith which is what is required to receive these truths. Scripture teaches that, by the way.
By the way, I still do not believe that you have effectively debunked this idea. Heb 6:4-5 cannot be explained away in it's context. The only way you can possibly refute it is to use some other passage from another book. I am convinced that the author of Hebrews had arminian beliefs, as it has many passages that refute the 5 points.
I've dealt with that text in Hebrews and you have either ignored it or plain rejected it. You're right, though, the meaning of that text cannot be explained away IN CONTEXT. Read from verse 1 through 9 and following (without the Spirit, of course) and tell me you think he (who I think is Paul) is REALLY talking about people who were saved, converted, justified, etc. You can't, because the text does not say it or imply it. The word "enlightened" is proof enough.
Read from verse 1 through 9...and tell me you think he...is REALLY talking about..."
Well, you should actually start with Heb 5:11. In this context, he (this is not Paul by the way) is talking about the spiritually immature, not fake believers.
Wrong- he changes from the young and immature in the faith to ones who have been around the faith, i.e. 'enlightened'. This is clear by the wording in verse 4- 'For in the case of those who'- he doesn't use YOU here; he changes to THEM. He goes back to YOU in verse 9 and the 'you' is plural, btw. Also, there are many who would agree that Paul is the author of Hebrews- John Calvin is one of them as well as my pastor; I agree with them, but it doesn't matter in the understanding of the text.
"Wrong- he changes from the young and immature in the faith to ones who have been around the faith, i.e. 'enlightened'."
Brett, doesn't this sound like a warning to the readers?
The author is saying that his readers are immature and if they don't grow up then they will "fall away." If the elect can't fall away, then why warn them?
You keep using "enlightened" like it proves your point. These individuals "shared in the Holy Spirit." In Heb 10:26, these individuals are said to have "received the knowledge of the truth." The key word is "received." Notice it didn't say "hear."
Also, the authorship is important, which is why most calvinists claim it is Paul. If it is Paul, then they can say he didn't mean what he said since he clearly teaches the 5 points in his other letters.
You are just like every other Arminian (you're even worse as an atheist). All Arminians wrongfully confuse salvation/justification with sanctification. Look at the Greek in the Hebrews 6 text- it's obvious what the text means. Look at the context of the ch.10 reference- it's obvious. You are never going to sell me on this Arminian way of twisting things to center them on man. It's bunk. The Bible does not support it and you have not defended it well at all. Sorry.
"All Arminians wrongfully confuse salvation/justification with sanctification."
Don't you think you're just a little arrogant about this?
You have offered NO evidence for your position. You refute with "you are wrong," "all arminians confuse this," etc.
Since you present yourself as schooled in Greek, please educate me on the context of chapters 6 and 10. Give me specifics and not generic phrases. This should be easy for you, as you're quite confident.
I didn't say it was a warning! Read the comment, Steve. I explained it clearly and it is contextual. Your mind won't change because you are bent on your own view. Your reply above proves that, unless you'd like to prove me wrong in which I case I'm game.
He tells the immature to grow up, then he talks about those who fall away, and then he says that we are confident of better things in your case. This is the typical flow of a warning.
Why would he all of a sudden change and talk about those who pretend to be christians and then go right back to the immature if it didn't apply to them? Come on Brett, it makes no sense unless it's a warning
"...you should ask yourself why as an unbeliever you are so dead set against Calvinistic theology as an atheist- what does it matter?"
I'm not dead set against calvinistic theology, as I believe scripture supports it. But, I believe arminianism is also supported. Now, if both ideas are supported, then either one of two things is going on. Either scripture isn't inerrant or, maybe you are both right and, consequently, both wrong.
"I know Christ is right- read His words- you cannot explain away what He clearly teaches."
The problem is that rarely anything in the bible is "clear." That's why there are so many denominations. And, they all think they are interpreting it correctly.
You cannot be an honest student of scripture and be wishy-washy about the doctrines of grace. They are too obvious and are the foundation of biblical theology.
Bottom line is they have a choice, something the religious brainwashers in many denomanations of christianity dont want you to have. They want to brainwash you to think you have no choice but to follow the deceitful path of the same spirit they themselves are lead by. And that spirit leads to greed and power, just with a cross stamped on it to make it ok (or so they think)!
SuperRalph76 1 month ago
Try twisting this scripture to defend your calvinistic view........Acts 2:37-40 emphasis on verse 40 which reads........"with many other words he (Paul) warned them;and he pleaded with them, "SAVE YOURSELVES from this corrupt generation!" How can a totality dead person save himself? And if he was already enabled/saved by God to repent, why is Paul warning them to repent and be saved?
SuperRalph76 1 month ago
Then you attack the errors of arminianism and try to say that you just refuted free will because you refuted a particular point to arminianism and arminianism teaches a form of free will. Thats deceitful, but thats what hardcore calvinist do to train (brainwash) the unlearned to believe and defend their erronious doctrine.
SuperRalph76 1 month ago
Calvinist/Calvinism does not have the answers. Your brainwashed. Just like all calvinist are brainwashed. Anyone who defends the bible against the particular heresies of calvinism (some things about calvinism are correct) are somehow now arminiasts. How convenient for you guys. You cant defend calvinisms errors on many points biblically, especially their view on free will, so your turn to what arminianism teaches and then falsely presume everyone who defends free will is an arminian.
SuperRalph76 1 month ago
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 6 months ago
Please don't think I am advocating total Arminianism.. but, they do have some points that I agree with.. and the same with Calvinism. I have heard great arguments, with Biblical scripture.. on both sides.
margovallen 8 months ago
The scriptures say again and again.. "Believe and be saved"... so, we 'believe' first.. then we are saved... and at THAT time comes regeneration.. we are then, born-again of spirit.. and Christ's Righteousness is IMPUTED onto us.. so when God, the Father looks at us, He is looking through Jesus Christ.. as Christ acts as a veil over us.
God gives us free-will.. as His Love for us will not dominate His Will. Love is not forceful. Seems Calvinism is about getting the cart before the horse.
margovallen 8 months ago
I thought God 'elected' to save those of whom desired salvation.. that it was freely offered to everyone.. that Jesus did what He did on the Cross and beyond, for everyone.. and that is a freely offered GIFT that we either accept, in order to have... or reject.
I made my profession of faith in Jesus Christ when I was 7.. in an Assembly of God church.. then, was baptized in a Southern Baptist church. I never know anything about Arminianism vs Calvinism up until a couple of years ago.
What am I?
margovallen 8 months ago
What chance do I have, when wise and learned men cannot agree on Christ's teachings? Men who have dedicated a lifetime to studying scripture, but still end up interpreting the same Bible in different ways?
Mojosbigstick 1 year ago
I realy dont know all about cism and aism but I do know alittle bit about the scriptures Praise God Philippians 3:16 let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Im confused on who believes in predestinated salvation, but agian in Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained,either were already perfect: WAKE UP PEOPLE and get away from all these false teachings. Get back in the bible and back in prayer. Seek the Lord and his wisdom. Not the wisdom of men. God bless
Jpiaathio 2 years ago
Comment removed
DougCameraMan 2 years ago
Salvation is either 100% the work of God or it is man's acomplisment,so he can brag.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
Wasn't it *Jacobus* Arminius?
Brightstar27 2 years ago
I'll agree it's a view of man, but scripture absolutely supports it. If you think scripture does not support the doctrines of grace then your god is not the God of the Bible.
bberchin 2 years ago
Limited Atonement is not "absolutely" supported in the Scriptures, but is a logical necessity for a Calvinist to be consistent with his theology.
A lot of twisting of the scriptures has to take place to say that the Bible supports Limited Atonement and that "God so loved the Elect, that He gave His only begotten Son..." and that "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not only ours but of the sins of the whole group of us, the Elect" and that "Christ died for all (of the Elect)"
sketchbook1 2 years ago 2
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S1nApS3 2 years ago
nice said bberchin
S1nApS3 2 years ago
@bberchin ROFl, yes scripture used out of context and, Scripture twisted up!
ilovecoheed123 1 year ago
I'm not an Atheist and I've pointed out the fallacy of TULIP in my commentary on you tube. The 5 points of Calvinism: Bad Theology. If you'd like to respond to it you're welcome to. Most 5 pointers I've encountered have no answer to my arguments. 5 Point Calvinism denies the deity of Christ. Which is a dangerous thing to do.
jsloan777 2 years ago
Please tell me how calvinism denies the deity of Christ? I have never ever met a calvinist that doesnt believe Christ is God.
CASSMAN777 2 years ago
Most atheists who say they were believers that I've encountered were calvinists and realized that your god can't be defened
cliffw77 2 years ago
The God of Calvinism is a schizophrenic cosmic tyrant. If "TULIP" truly summed up the gospel of Christ, I would want no part of it. Thankfully, I know that the gospel IS good news, not the news that God secretly hates most of the world and plans for them to die in sin. If any doctrine is a doctrine of demons, it is this because it slanders God.
heart4moocows 2 years ago
You forgot Narcissistic... Narcissistic God...
Svenleigh 2 years ago
If man doesnt have the ability to respond to God apart from regeneration then why was Ables sacrifice acceptable to God ?
FORCHRST 2 years ago
Touche...
Svenleigh 2 years ago
I wish more Christians would get out of their comfort zone, so they could see for themselves that Calvinist consider the Arminian/Biblical gospel as HERESY! If the pastors would do their homework and see the importance of not allowing Calvinism into any part of the Gospel, Soteriology,
coolhellcat18 2 years ago
The Arminian view IS heresy and the Bible is clear about it. You cannot purge the Calvinist view from the gospel or you would strip the gospel of its biblical content as you did above in your comment. Your God is not big enough and you seem too preoccupied with a theological viewpoint to see what the scriptures really teach.
bberchin 2 years ago
Mate, everyone says that the other side is too attached to a theology to consider the scriptures. Both systems (Calvin or Arminius) are flawed, but I'm not entirely sure that you fully understand either Historic or Post-modern Arminianism. Thus, I'm not entirely sure you are tackling the issue quite as thoroughly as you might. And you take a few liberties with the interpretations of scripture. But that's what dogmatic attachment to a particular theology will get you.
Svenleigh 2 years ago
True and AMEN.
Both sides claim to have a lock on all truth, and that the Scriptures only support THEIR systematic theology.
But neither system, Calvin's or Arminius', can be supported fully Scripturally, without twisting something or committing eisogesis... they also both fail at some point if you take them to their logical ends.
sketchbook1 2 years ago
Thank goodness Augustine FINALLY figured out what Paul was trying to say. All those silly theologians -- Polycarp and Ignatius, Clement and Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Tertullian -- those heretics didn't know what they were talking about.
And thank goodness God sent John Calvin into the world over a thousand years after Augustine to restore the original gospel, which apparently had been lost to those foolish, humanistic "free willers."
>.>
heart4moocows 2 years ago
or the Christian life for that matter, we would see a great awaking in the body of Christ, and sinners would be saved to the true gospel, and people would be confident in their salvation not only because of their holy living but because they would know that Christ died for them and that they are in deed a "True" Christian. And they would know that when they are living in sin then they are going to hell, not being deceived by the doctrine of perseverance.
coolhellcat18 2 years ago
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coolhellcat18 2 years ago
Arminianisim = semi- pelagianism!
Ul3ter4ever 2 years ago
Thanks! Yes, it is!
bberchin 3 years ago
This was a great video Brett. Arminianism is nothing more than a self salvation man centered theology that is essentially a recrudescence of Pelagianism that is inconsistant with God's word.
ByChristAlone 3 years ago
Personally, I'm greatly encouraged to evangelize and preach the gospel precisely because of my Calvinist beliefs. For one, I'm guaranteed success! I know that God has an elect out there (who are my lost brothers and sisters) and He has appointed me, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to find them. And even if I toil for years without a convert, I know that I'm still glorify God, which is exactly what it's all about.
ATLpirate 3 years ago
I don't know if what Arminuius taught was "man centered" or not, but the truth of free will is undeniable in scripture. I have heard that Arminius and Calvin actually taught the same thing, but from different points of view. Hebrews 6 is a warning to believers not to stop believing in Jesus. Jesus said in John 15 that if we do not remain in him, i.e. in faith, we will go to hell. Calvinists have yet to explain what point there is to preaching the gospel if God doesn't give us a choice.
apologeticsman 3 years ago
"Calvinists have yet to explain what point there is to preaching the gospel if God doesn't give us a choice."
Baloney. We preach the gospel because we are commanded to. We preach the gospel for the glory of God. And we preach this gospel to all -- for the sake of the elect, and for judgment of those who refuse to repent.
How depressing and demoralizing must it be for the Arminian evangelist, preaching a man-centered gospel, to convince men of their sins without the help of God. What a burden.
ATLpirate 3 years ago
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
ATLpirate 3 years ago
so can anyone be saved by the arminian gospel that Christ died for your sins and its your choice to choose or reject him?
im young so bare with me i didn't know that Christianity was so split up like this except when i went on youtube its so many different doctrines and stuff.
lilchrizz123 3 years ago
The only gospel people can be saved by is the one taught in scripture. Read and study very carefully Matthew 27&28, Mark 15&16, Luke 23&24, John 19-21, and Romans 3. Talk to your pastor and elders and ask them questions about the gospel. As I said, there will be Arminians in heaven and there will be Calvinists in hell and vice-versa. No one's theology will qualify them or disqualify them. You must rely on Christ ALONE by grace ALONE through faith ALONE- no choices.
bberchin 3 years ago
Thanks man and God bless
lilchrizz123 3 years ago
Great video! One thing though - Calvinists do not outright deny that free will exists. What we deny is what is called "Libertarian free will"
We instead believe in "Compatibilism free will"
Check out the youvideo "A few problems with Arminianism and a case for Calvinism"
Not even Jesus Christ had libertarian free will.
"I came not do to do own my will, but the will of Him who sent me"
skalapunk 3 years ago
"Don't you think you're just a little arrogant about this?"
Everybody who disagrees with you is "arrogant" it seems, crazypills, especially when it comes to soteriology. ;)
ATLpirate 3 years ago
Amen! Calvinists are so intent on being right, that in their arrogance, they miss the truth of the love of God. This man is a Hyper Calvinist, and that is heresy... Hypers are not saved in my opinion.
apologeticsman 3 years ago
I'm confused by your comment. Who are you calling a hyper-Calvinist?
ATLpirate 3 years ago
You made the ridiculous statement that we as humans do not have free will at all. That is the classical heresy of the hyper Calvinists. Most mainline Calvinists believe in free will, but their understanding of it is flawed, especially when they try as you did to explain the Arminian teaching on free will. Free will in NO way denies or even subverts God's sovereignty, in fact, it confirms it. God chooses in His sovereignty to offer man a choice; accept Jesus and live, deny Him and perish.
apologeticsman 3 years ago
Humans do not have free will -- at least not as the Arminian understands it. If men are born depraved, as I believe the Bible clearly teaches we are, then we are slaves to sin, so we are only "free" to do that which our fallen nature allows. Therefore, apart from God's grace, we can do no righteous deed (Rom. 3:10-11).
As for me being a hyper-Calvinist, I am not. Like most Arminians, you seem to have a difficult time differentiating between hyper-Calvinism and traditional Calvinism.
ATLpirate 3 years ago
"God chooses in His sovereignty to offer man a choice; accept Jesus and live, deny Him and perish."
"Choice" implies works. But Ephesians 2:8-9 says: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Why are you teaching works-based salvation when such a viewpoint is clearly counter-Scriptural? I'm afraid I'm not the one teaching heresy here; you are.
ATLpirate 3 years ago
AMEN! I'm a Calvinist (obviously!) but I don't agree with everything John Calvin said. For example he believed all babies and children who are too young to aknowlege Christ are going to hell.
Calvinist4Christ 3 years ago
"he believed all babies and children who are too young to aknowlege Christ are going to hell."- Where do you find that in his writings?
bberchin 3 years ago
well... I didn't exactly find it in his writings but the internet seems to lean that way. Just google, "John Calvin Believed Babies Go To Hell"
Calvinist4Christ 3 years ago
Ouch. I never "google" anything to learn things like that. I'm sure you know that John Calvin is not the most popular historical person and people go to great lengths to discredit him and even spread lies. The internet is one of their primary tools.
bberchin 3 years ago
What I meant was that you can probably find WHERE in his writings it says that if you search on google.... But I agree that you can't believe everything the internet says. By the way I like your intro. :)
Calvinist4Christ 3 years ago
I see- cool.
bberchin 3 years ago
This is a test. Some of my comments aren't showing up.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Test passed. ;)
bberchin 3 years ago
Case closed! Great presentation.
NotYourTypicalNegro 3 years ago
Thanks, but the case ain't finished! See part 2! Can I use "ain't"?
bberchin 3 years ago
Oh it's up now...good! Yeah...you can use 'ain't'. LOL!
NotYourTypicalNegro 3 years ago
"What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god."
William Shakespeare
stagism 3 years ago
I'll agree with him that man is surely a piece of work! However, the rest of his statement is arrogant and presumptuous and is the sentiment of a man who is spending an eternity in hell; not because of this statement, but because of his rejection of Christ and the free gift of eternal life.
bberchin 3 years ago
Maybe, but if heaven is filled with the likes of Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson and the Fred Phelps sect I would surely choose hell. At least in hell your guaranteed to get some intelligent conversation.
stagism 3 years ago
There are probably many who have been famous as professing Christians who were not true believers- I won't make any of those judgements, but I can say that it would be hard for me to imagine that there is a place in heaven for the likes of Fred Phelps not because of what he says and does, but because he demonstrates unbelief in his actions. I'm not sure he relies on Christ alone for eternal life and only the rejection of Christ is punishable by eternal torment in hell.
bberchin 3 years ago
What about Pat Robertson? You know the guy who said that the presence of Gay people at Disney World would cause earthquakes, tornados and possibly a meteor.
Is there a place in heaven for bigots?
stagism 3 years ago
Repentent bigots, yes. Robertson? I'm not sure, but I can say he's out there and I don't see a lot of evidence that he knows the Christ of the Bible, but how can I know? I definitely would not hitch my wagon to him, though.
bberchin 3 years ago
Brett,
I believe both Calvinists and arminians make a big mistake; they both assume that the bible is one consistent thought. I believe this is incorrect and that different authors had different views of free will. This is why there is contradiction in the scripture.
You don't see any contradiction, but that's because you must interpret the use of words like "world," "all," "whosoever," "any," etc to only refer to the elect. This cannot be supported by the context of all of the verses.
crazypills2 3 years ago
When you take things out of proper context- yes you can see contradiction. You can also see contradiction through the eyes of unbelief and skepticism and by a desire to avoid what those truths would mean to you if you believed they were true and and had to deal with yourself as a result. I don't "interpret" anything. Scripture interprets itself and you should ask yourself why as an unbeliever you are so dead set against Calvinistic theology as an atheist- what does it matter?
bberchin 3 years ago
"I don't "interpret" anything."
Come on Brett. You have a doctrine, and therefore interpret scripture accordingly, just like the arminians do. You are so sure your doctrine is right, but you must use your doctrine to confirm your doctrine. This is circular reasoning.
crazypills2 3 years ago
I never said I was so sure my doctrine is right. I'm sure the Bible is correct and that is where doctrine comes from- not my own reasoning.
bberchin 3 years ago
"I'm sure the Bible is correct and that is where doctrine comes from- not my own reasoning."
You interpret scripture in light of your doctrine. So, when it doesn't quite fit, you have to make it.
crazypills2 3 years ago
It's the other way around. I had preconceived ideas when I first became a Christian- the scriptures changed many of my views. Scripture formed my doctrine; plain and simple.
bberchin 3 years ago
"When you take things out of proper context- yes you can see contradiction."
Well, arminians would say you take things out of context, so how can you be so sure you are right?
crazypills2 3 years ago
Prove it. Arminians aren't usually prepared to do that and always get blown out of the water when the Bible is opened up.
bberchin 3 years ago
"Prove it."
Are you asking me to prove that the bible supports both arminian and calvinist teaching?
You should destroy me in this, as every calvinist has been trained to defend their doctrine. Arminians don't do this. You have talking points; I don't. But, I'll bite anyway.
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crazypills2 3 years ago
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Now, here is my hypothesis: different authors of the bible taught different things regarding arminian and calvinist doctrine.
For the debate, you must use the context of the passage to refute what I am saying. You cannot quote from another book of the bible.
If you're game, I'll play.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Rediculous- You cannot interpret scripture without using other scripture to interpret it! Otherwise, you are only interpreting based on your own reason alone. That's one of the big mistakes Arminians make. I'm not here to destroy you, nor do I wish to defend Calvinist doctrine. I'm here to defend Christ. I don't play games with His word, nor do I wish to behave like a haughty high tower theologian. Find somebody else to play that game.
bberchin 3 years ago
"You cannot interpret scripture without using other scripture to interpret it!"
Don't you see the problem with this? You can't read the bible for what it says. Instead, if a verse contradicts your doctrine, then you refute it with a verse that supports your doctrine and simply say, "you don't understand the verse."
Your doctrine then become more important than scripture, as it is the lens through which you read it.
Don't get me wrong, arminians have the exact same problem.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Yes, that does happen, but when it comes to the doctrines of grace you cannot escape what the Bible teaches on them. This is becoming more about you trying to get me to question Calvinism than anything else. So, let me put your mind at rest- I've done years of questioning Calvinism and started at the "that's not fair" point just like everybody else. I studied and studied and the scriptures changed my mind- not Calvin or my pastor or anyone else. Believe it or not.
bberchin 3 years ago
"This is becoming more about you trying to get me to question Calvinism than anything else."
Brett, the intent of your video was to show that arminianism is wrong. So, of course I'm going to try to get you to question calvinism.
On your other videos, that don't deal with the 5 points, I simply try to get you to question the entire bible :-)
As I indicated to you, I began to believe in predestination near the end of my church life, and it was a catalyst to my de-conversion.
crazypills2 3 years ago 2
Now, I believe there is little difference between predestination and foreknowledge, when the being with the knowledge is also the manipulator of the universe. This is demonstrated by Newcomb's Paradox.
For instance, have you ever wondered why god put the tree of knowledge in the middle of the garden? If the tree were at the edge, maybe Eve wouldn't have eaten it. So, if god knew that putting the tree in the middle of the garden would guarantee the sin, then he ultimately arranged the act.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Human reasoning and speculation- can't you do better than that? Come on- did you ignore the rest of my comment above? You keep accusing me of holding to my own beliefs with all my might as if I ignore what scripture says to hold to my ideas and yet, you do the very thing you accuse me of. Please, Steve, this is rediculous.
bberchin 3 years ago
"Human reasoning and speculation- can't you do better than that?"
I don't believe the scriptures are inspired, so I can't use them. Reason is the only tool I can use here, and that's what I apply.
Since you hold to the bible, then I can use it to demonstrate that you are wrong. Likewise, since I hold to reason, you can use it to demonstrate that I am wrong.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"Since you hold to the bible, then I can use it to demonstrate that you are wrong."- You have not done so.
bberchin 3 years ago
"You have not done so."
That wasn't my point. My point is that you must use reason to convince me, not scripture. And, I must use scripture to convince you. In the end though, neither of us may be effective.
crazypills2 3 years ago
I can't do that and I won't do that. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. We can reason all day, everyday, and you would never come to true faith which is what is required to receive these truths. Scripture teaches that, by the way.
bberchin 3 years ago
"de-conversion"- lol
bberchin 3 years ago
"de-conversion"- lol
I knew you'd get a kick out of that.
By the way, I still do not believe that you have effectively debunked this idea. Heb 6:4-5 cannot be explained away in it's context. The only way you can possibly refute it is to use some other passage from another book. I am convinced that the author of Hebrews had arminian beliefs, as it has many passages that refute the 5 points.
crazypills2 3 years ago
I've dealt with that text in Hebrews and you have either ignored it or plain rejected it. You're right, though, the meaning of that text cannot be explained away IN CONTEXT. Read from verse 1 through 9 and following (without the Spirit, of course) and tell me you think he (who I think is Paul) is REALLY talking about people who were saved, converted, justified, etc. You can't, because the text does not say it or imply it. The word "enlightened" is proof enough.
bberchin 3 years ago
Read from verse 1 through 9...and tell me you think he...is REALLY talking about..."
Well, you should actually start with Heb 5:11. In this context, he (this is not Paul by the way) is talking about the spiritually immature, not fake believers.
crazypills2 3 years ago
5:11 "...but it is hard to explain because YOU are slow to learn"
5:12 "...YOU need someone to teach YOU the elementary truths of gods's word...YOU need milk..."
6:1 "...let US leave the elementary teachings and go on to maturity..."
These have been "enlightened," "tasted the heavenly gift," and "shared in the Holy Spirit."
These were definitely believers.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Wrong- he changes from the young and immature in the faith to ones who have been around the faith, i.e. 'enlightened'. This is clear by the wording in verse 4- 'For in the case of those who'- he doesn't use YOU here; he changes to THEM. He goes back to YOU in verse 9 and the 'you' is plural, btw. Also, there are many who would agree that Paul is the author of Hebrews- John Calvin is one of them as well as my pastor; I agree with them, but it doesn't matter in the understanding of the text.
bberchin 3 years ago
"Wrong- he changes from the young and immature in the faith to ones who have been around the faith, i.e. 'enlightened'."
Brett, doesn't this sound like a warning to the readers?
The author is saying that his readers are immature and if they don't grow up then they will "fall away." If the elect can't fall away, then why warn them?
crazypills2 3 years ago
You keep using "enlightened" like it proves your point. These individuals "shared in the Holy Spirit." In Heb 10:26, these individuals are said to have "received the knowledge of the truth." The key word is "received." Notice it didn't say "hear."
Also, the authorship is important, which is why most calvinists claim it is Paul. If it is Paul, then they can say he didn't mean what he said since he clearly teaches the 5 points in his other letters.
crazypills2 3 years ago
You are just like every other Arminian (you're even worse as an atheist). All Arminians wrongfully confuse salvation/justification with sanctification. Look at the Greek in the Hebrews 6 text- it's obvious what the text means. Look at the context of the ch.10 reference- it's obvious. You are never going to sell me on this Arminian way of twisting things to center them on man. It's bunk. The Bible does not support it and you have not defended it well at all. Sorry.
bberchin 3 years ago
"All Arminians wrongfully confuse salvation/justification with sanctification."
Don't you think you're just a little arrogant about this?
You have offered NO evidence for your position. You refute with "you are wrong," "all arminians confuse this," etc.
Since you present yourself as schooled in Greek, please educate me on the context of chapters 6 and 10. Give me specifics and not generic phrases. This should be easy for you, as you're quite confident.
crazypills2 3 years ago
I didn't say it was a warning! Read the comment, Steve. I explained it clearly and it is contextual. Your mind won't change because you are bent on your own view. Your reply above proves that, unless you'd like to prove me wrong in which I case I'm game.
bberchin 3 years ago
"I didn't say it was a warning!"
I know, but it makes no sense how you propose it.
He tells the immature to grow up, then he talks about those who fall away, and then he says that we are confident of better things in your case. This is the typical flow of a warning.
Why would he all of a sudden change and talk about those who pretend to be christians and then go right back to the immature if it didn't apply to them? Come on Brett, it makes no sense unless it's a warning
crazypills2 3 years ago
"...you should ask yourself why as an unbeliever you are so dead set against Calvinistic theology as an atheist- what does it matter?"
I'm not dead set against calvinistic theology, as I believe scripture supports it. But, I believe arminianism is also supported. Now, if both ideas are supported, then either one of two things is going on. Either scripture isn't inerrant or, maybe you are both right and, consequently, both wrong.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Maybe you're wrong? I know Christ is right- read His words- you cannot explain away what He clearly teaches.
bberchin 3 years ago
"I know Christ is right- read His words- you cannot explain away what He clearly teaches."
The problem is that rarely anything in the bible is "clear." That's why there are so many denominations. And, they all think they are interpreting it correctly.
crazypills2 3 years ago
You cannot be an honest student of scripture and be wishy-washy about the doctrines of grace. They are too obvious and are the foundation of biblical theology.
bberchin 3 years ago
Another great video Brett..
Blaze25z 3 years ago
Thanks, Bill. God bless, brother.
bberchin 3 years ago