Election and predestination what does it really mean.

[greatnewsnetwork]

So God just looked down through time to see who would call on Him then elected them. It this how you see it?

[722marine]

@greatnewsnetwork No he did not look through the corridors of time LOL. God did the electing (choosing) of people for salvation, through the plan of salvation, which is whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Did he know in advance who would call on Him, of course he did. He is in the present and the future at the same time, he is eternal. But God didn't hand pick some for heaven and predestine others for hell.

[greatnewsnetwork]

@722marine How did He know who would chose Him? Ephesians 1 4-5 says "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"

He knew and predestined us before the world foundation of the world for adoption as sons. He knew and chose us for heaven and all others will get the justice for their sin.

(Ephesians 1:4-5 ESV)

[ishellreal]

Good video! Here is how I view Romans 8:29 in light of the rest of Scripture.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew (would respond to His call), He also predestined (corporately as the body of believers) [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

[DougCameraMan]

It all boils down to who chose who. Arminians believe that we choose God. Calvinists believe that God chooses us. You can find scripture that may imply, or support, either doctrine, although I believe that there is far more that supports Calvinism. Most of the Arminian verses are generally attributed to the word "world" and they say that means that God loves everyone, but does he? Jesus himself, said that he was praying for his sheep, his people, but NOT for the world.

[DougCameraMan]

Jesus was quite clear about there being two groups of people, his people that he was saving....and... those who were children of the devil, as he stated in the gospel of John, chap. 8, verse 44. Obviously, if some among him were children of the devil then it makes sense that there are children of the devil today. John, chapter 6 is also a great chapter. Jesus says over and over again that he saves thsoe whom the Father has given to him.

[CBALLEN]

Before I believed in the Doctrines of grace,I'd hear the preacher preach that no one is good,that we all are dead in trespasses and sin,that none seek after Him and I would think to myself,then why did I seek after Him?

[722marine]

@CBALLEN Sorry I'm just now replying but didn't get a notification that you made a comment. You asked why did you seek God? John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. God was drawing you near to him by his grace.

[CBALLEN]

God inhabits all time,so to say that He knew who would choose Him so He chose them first,would mean scripture would have to say"I love you because you loved me first",however scripture says just the opposite.All we know is that the Lord chose who He chose for His good purpose.Could Lazarus reject the gift of life after he was dead and Jesus ressurected him?Could the man with the withered hand reject his gift or the blind man?All who want Jesus have been regenerated and given faith to believe.

[722marine]

@CBALLEN I didn't say that God chose people because he knew they would choose him. Even though he already knew. What I said was that God chose people, by his grace, for salvation that would their trust in Jesus. The method of salvation was selected before the world began with the intent that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It was inclusive and exclusive at the same time.

[Haukman66]

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject brother, but if God chose, by 'looking down the barrel of time' to see who would believe, then God had to 'learn' something. God doesnt learn anything. He knows all things. 1John 3:20. And the fact that we(believers) have faith, even that is a gift from God. Eph. 2:8,9. No one can come to Christ, unless that person is drawn by the Father. Jonn 6:44. Also, many are called, but few are chosen. Read the parable of the wedding feast. Matt. 22:1-14.

[722marine]

Hello my friend! I don't think God looked down the corridors of time at all to see who would believe in Him and I hope I didn't imply that in the video. I'm really in agreement with you and the points that you make in your comment 100%.

[Haukman66]

Hey, brother 722, I have to disagree with you though. You said it a number of times in the video. That God chooses , those who would put their trust in Him. That is not the order. We put our trust in Him, because He chose us. Acts 13:48. It has nothing to do with us. God is the one who chooses, according to His own will. Eph. 1:5, Rom. 9:16. So you see, He didnt see who would have faith. We have faith, because He chose us. God bless.

[CBALLEN]

722marine,do you really believe that God is a failure at anything?You see,if anyone who God intended to save ended up in Hell,then Hell would be an eternal reminder of God's failure.

[722marine]

@CBALLEN God never fails at anything. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God wants all men to be saved, but it's a failure on the part men when they reject the gift of salvation. God doesn't force anyone to love him.

[nickybadboy50]

Predestination can be as confusing as the Trinity. I take them both as truth, by faith. Enjoyed the video. God bless you, brother.

[722marine]

You're right, I not dogmatic on this issue though. I'm like you I accept it as truth by faith. God bless.

[stanzibritovsky]

what about man being dead in their sins. and romans 3:11 their are none that seek after God. Man cant choose Jesus Christ cuz man hates Jesus Christ. The only reason that we can love Jesus is cuz He loved us first. And if Jesus died for the WHOLE world and ALL sin then no one goes to hell cuz unbelif and rejection of Christ would be forgiven too right? Calvinisms hard to swallow but if its the way it is then its the way it is. trust me if im not elect it will suck for me too.

[722marine]

Hi, how are you?I'm doing great my wife just delivered my first biological child yesterday. His name Is Joshua Caleb. Praise the Lord.

1.I'm in agreement with you 100% as far none seeking after God.

2.Forgiveness doesn't give LIFE my friend, it is written John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Many are called(the world) few are chosen (elect) us :D

[GodGunsGutsGlory]

Amen brother!

God would not have Christians spread the word if everyone wasn't eligible to be saved.

[722marine]

I'm not a calvinist! watch the video carefully and attentively. Also election does deal with groups the nation of Israel, the church, and God's Holy angels, plus of course the LORD himself, However these groups are made of individuals who trust in the Lord. Anyway peace out! I'm about to check out your channel. :D

[johnmcglone4]

Predestination and election deals with a group people not individuals. God desires a Holy and obedient people, who by their freewill, submit to the love demonstrated at the cross of Jesus.

The Jews are the elect according to the Bible and so is Jesus. So are all the Jews saved?

If you believe in Calvinistic election and predestination then you must believe in double predestination which would mean God chooses to send everyone else to eternal destruction.

[MavericKLongRange]

great video, a really great explanation

[aProdigalChild]

What happened to our new friend,he seems to have disappeared before I can greet and make a posting to him...??

Truthseeker or something like that was his username.

I just wanted to tell them we are not debating arminianism vs.calvinism here,just doing a little scripture study in peace.

[simone56]

You are then saying that I am lost. I do not agree, I know my Redeemer lives in me.

God has clarified much for me, and is in the process of doing that everyday through is word. I am concerned that you would make such a reckless statement without scriptural proof.

Please provide scripture in context to support your claims. Thanks.

[simone56]

That is a unfair and irresponsible accusation. Please and thanks.

[aProdigalChild]

John 3:19" This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."

[simone56]

Yes... their deeds come from their heart. Their hearts do evil continually.

Jesus said it himself in Matthew 15:19

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

[aProdigalChild]

"ALL have fallen short","NONE do good","EVERY inclination is evil"...BUT the Light did shine in the world,some just cover their eyes and run down to the darkness cause they HATE the truth,it shows them their evil deeds.Jesus came to "restore"sight to the blind ( Isa 61:1),yet some with stubborn and hard hearts refuse the GIFT of repentance ( Rom 2:4-5).

What pieces of work we are...hehe!

[aProdigalChild]

1 Tim 2:6 Christ "gave Himself as ransom for ALL men".As with the "elect angels" mentioned in 1 Tim 5:21,there are also the fallen,but He explains why some are NOT "elect"in Jude 1:6.Some just CHOSE to abandon their position and disobey the call from God,that is what makes them the "none elect".God doesn't have pets and favorites but is fair to all,yet only the ones who respond to the call are saved,He won't force us to obey and follow Him.

[simone56]

Concerning the angels, just like Adam and Eve, they chose to sin... therefore they have been condemned to death. Jude 6 does not call these angels who fell elect who fell from heaven as Paul calls the angels he speaks to elect in 1 Tim 5:21.

Adam & Eve passed on their sin nature to us and because of this, we are incapable of choosing to do good or give God glory in ourselves alone, we need God's intervention to even see the kingdom. They did evil in God's sight all the time.

[simone56]

A choice is a choice... it is his sovereign choice and has nothing to do with us choosing at all. If that were the case man would have something to boast about.

Your argument falls apart on the assumption that men have "good hearts" that are capable of seeing the kingdom of God.. you cannot even SEE the kingdom of God unless you are BORN AGAIN. John 3:3

I do agree with you concerning John 3:16...

Questions - Where does faith come from? What moves you to follow the decrees of God?

[aProdigalChild]

Hey Simone,good to hear from you sis.

Faith as with redemption and the ability to obey are free gifts as is salvation by Christ,through Christ.Once we sin (and all do by the way),we become darkened by it and can't see to distinguish anything,much alone right from wrong.God sends repentance and the call,He restores the Light to our eyes,BUT some do chose to stay in darkness sadly,MANY.'Many are called but few are chosen",few come out of Ur as Abraham after God...

Blessings!

[simone56]

Amen sister. This is why I don't get sucked into the Calvin Arminias debates. Yes I do steer toward Calvin true ;) BUT I think there are many misunderstandings that the word will clear up.

Yes Christians must choose this day who they will serve, but we are now slaves to righteousness in Romans 6:18 and last I checked we don't have a choice in the matter if we are slaves LOL

I was watching you earlier and I am in a similar situation concerning the institutional church. You are in my prayers.

[aProdigalChild]

You see,we "all know in part" and nobody knows in full.Salvation is by grace alone,true and 'He that began a good work in you will take it into completion"BUT we must "remain in Him" as He warns (John 15).Nobody can snatch us out of His hand as He promises BUT we sometimes love to let go of it and run as Lot and the Prodigal Son into the world of darkness.He is perfect,yet we are being made perfect as we walk the straight and narrow,obedient in Christ.

[simone56]

Yes YES YES! I hate it when folks assume they know it all.. this is when men get puffed up in their pride. I am simply concerned with whether you know the Christ or not. God has opened my understanding when I walked in a falsehood for YEARS. I'm so glad that God is not like man and he is patient and longsuffering :)

[aProdigalChild]

The scripture on top of my page says it all,it's Jonah 2:6.I was down in the darkness in GREAT sin when HE stepped into my life and held out His gracious hand to me.When revival hit old Bianca here,I was rolling on the floor in tears and guilt for days.The birth was quite painful cause I used to think I was a good person,till He put me next to the standard of God,Christ.Since then I know nothing good resides in me apart from HIM and that I must decrease and He increase.I am a work in progress...

[722marine]

Amen, blessed be name of the LORD forever He is merciful, and gracious and slow to anger and plentious in mercy. :D

[aProdigalChild]

By the way,one of the first things He tought me in my walk with Him is how wrong i can be on soooo many issues and how much bad thinking resides in my little brain,hence the "renewing of the mind into the mind of Christ",necessity.

We come from a very flawed and nasty thinking and He works with those that are willing to be wrong and be schooled by Him.

[722marine]

Hello there, first off let me say that I have a lot of respect for you and have been encouraged by your videos, especially the one where you admitted that your support for pres. Obama was not cool. Oh yeah and the one on MaryMary's new song The God in me.

I just wanted to say that I believe man's heart is inheritedly evil by nature and not good at all. Jesus is the one who says in Luke 8:15 about ...which in an and honest and good heart....bring forth fruit with patience. 500 characters :(

[simone56]

Hello!

Thank you for the encouragement. We need to build each other up in the body of Christ.

Thanks for clearing that up. Whether we choose God ( I believe we do) or God chose us (which I also believe LOL), I thank God EITHER WAY for choosing me out of the fire.

Its funny because I believe that one of the points of discussion on the sides concerning atonement is a issue that I am letting God school me in, for I am not sold on John 3:16 being just for the few elect... BAD CALVINIST! LOL!

[722marine]

You crazy lol.. It very refreshing though for us discuss these things as believers in a civilized way. I feel that we doing what of people should be doing and that's examining ourselves on what we believe and why we believe it. I know a lot of folks would not be caught in false doctrines and isms if they did so. But God is merciful and he delivers us from the snares of the devil. But keep preaching the gospel of Christ dear sister. May the Lord bless you and keep you always. :D

[aProdigalChild]

Sometimes we just tend to over think and over spiritualize verses in the Bible.God doesn't make mistakes,when He says "ALL",it means ALL.He called me out on a few occasions for trying to hard to read between the lines and give a new meaning to His words.He doesn't say "loved the world"and "ransom for ALL"then,takes it back or it means some (elect).He really wants "none to perish but ALL to come to repentance"( 2 Peter 3:9)

Bless your willingness to be wrong and humble spirit sister.

[simone56]

Well... there is biblical precedence for the word "All" being used in a collective sense not to mean everyone, especially in our own language... ALL bible readers do it... see I just said it in a way that does not mean EVERYONE IN THE WORLD, but just a collective group of people, some kinds of people this is in the concordance as a fact.

[simone56]

Rom 9 14:24 says in turn that he has mercy on whom he will have mercy, and he has prepared those in advance for destruction. The question is also asked: One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

[simone56]

Romans 9:22-24 - What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory - even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

What if he DID this? What if he chose some to go to destruction and some to know him? I believe he did just that. GBY all :)

[aProdigalChild]

I am aware of Rom 9,but the Bible starts with Gen and ends in Rev,much is said in so many books and we must study (guided by His Spirit)all of them to come to a better understanding of truth.God does provide answers as to why many go down to the pit all over the Bible and He reasons with men quite often.Sin is what drives one down,rebellion,not because He simply creates some to sin or go to hell.Rom 9 must be read in the context of many other books,including all the book of Rom in entirety.

[simone56]

I ask you sincerely, what is you take on the Rom 9 in context with other scriptures?

Jacob I loved and Esau I hated. He has mercy on whom he has mercy. People ask: Why does God blame us? Who resists his will? But we have no right to question God, we are the clay and he is the potter. He has made some for common and noble purposes. God elects some to heaven and some to destruction to show his mercy , love, patience, etc. to the elect.

This is my understanding of the scripture.

[aProdigalChild]

Good point Simone with Jacob and Esau.But God explains to all why He hated Esau clearly in Hebrews 12:15-17.There is a God given explanation for His foreknowledge hate for Esau.He didn't hate Esau just because...He had and gave a reason for His hate for us to take warning about walking away from Christ.There is no mystery regarding Esau's fate.

[rahahmim]

Jacob I loved and Esau i hated is quoted from Malachi 1:2! written long after both were dead!

[aProdigalChild]

Most Excellent my brother.Good parallel with the million $.

It was Gideon with the few men chosen ( Judges 7).

And OH,yes,Abraham was called as many are BUT Abraham obeyed and followed the call,he didn't just stay in Babylon and say "I'm chosen cause I believe",but acted out on the call in faith.

Much love and blessings!

[simone56]

The word says that many are called, BUT few are chosen. I believe that those who are elect will respond to the call of God while those that are not remain hardened in their sin and by this hardening reject God.

While I do believe there is a "choosing" and a turning away a Christian must do, where does the motivation come from? The sinful wicked human heart which does evil continually? Absolutely not. This is where I differ with Armenialists (In love:) Repentance is God motivated and driven.

[simone56]

I love your vids by the way... God bless you sister... see we can have this discussion and not be divided... ;)

[aProdigalChild]

My darling sister,families have discussions and sometimes differ in their views,BUT they are still a family.You are mine and so it shall be sis.

Love Ya!

[askg7]

This is an excellent example. The thing is a lot of people have problems understanding this concept when linking it with God knowing all things at the same time. People believe just because God knows who will be saved and who will not be, that its God is the one choosing when in reality its up to us to choose his FREE gift.

We are Justified by Faith!!! There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ, who live not after the flesh but after the spirit!!

[simone56]

I hear you brother however I have the following issues:

The bible says it clearly in Romans 8:7 - The sinful mind is hostile to God, it cannot submit to God's law nor can it do so.

Genesis 6:5 says that the inclinations of the evil human heart is ONLY EVIL CONTINUALLY (All the time)

There is no one who does good not even one. (Romans 3:23) How does one with an evil heart which only has the inclination to do evil, and a sinful mind which is hostile to God CHOOSE HIM?

[carpentersdaughter2]

If we take Calvinism to it's logical conclusion, then those who believe, will not be sure they are chosen until after they die. They will not know in this life if they are a chosen one, cause just because you believe, don't mean you are chosen....this is where this view takes us.

So to the Calvinist, they can not say they are saved, because they won't know if they been chosen until they die.

This particular view causes many problems and has many holes, really big holes.

God bless

Linda

[simone56]

Hello,

I believe that many people have Calvinism wrong. I identify myself as a Spirit filled Christ knowing believer, and I am a Calvinist who knows that I am elect through the word of God.

If anything Calvinism asserts that you SHOULD KNOW that they know God.

Has anyone ever read Romans 9... it will change your Christian life trust me...

[carpentersdaughter2]

Hi...

Yes, read Romans 9, but see if differently that calvinist. The Holy Spirit spirit convicts us of our sin, He reveals the truth of God's word to us. we are being invited by God through the power of the Holy Spirit to reveal His truth, and at some point in time, we either reject it or accept it.

The first time I read Genesis 1:1, I was about five or six, I knew that God was real and didn't have any problems believing in Him. .....continued.....

[carpentersdaughter2]

.....continued....

It was by the power of the Holy Spirit that God drew me to himself, but there was still the choice to be made to accept it or reject it.

Even the faith that I have is a gift from God.

[ChristianTruthHammer]

Amen. Well done. Your examples are excellent. You just got 5 stars and a favorite. God bless you, brother.

[Nephtali1981]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Praise his Beautiful Name! No one will have an excuse before the lord... no one person.