the 'church' starts with us individually at home first, and then we serve. when one starts to do those things Jesus asked us to do then others follow..... at least that is how I see it
I am a Christian, I love the Lord, and yet I have felt like "the church" has failed me! I have felt like I could not ever find a place where I felt like I was at home. I did leave the church and yet in my heart and according to scripture, we must be part of a fellowship of believers! So what's the problem? A book that has helped me is to realize that the problem may not actually be other people is called "Hiding From Love" by Dr. John Townsend. This book has been big help for me.
@rolysantos I hear Christians say it a lot. They stop reading and studying their Bible, memorizing scripture, praising God for a roof, food, transportation, job, family, loved ones, friends, church, witnessing and tithing. Stop serving the Lord, their neighbors. They turn inward. Their hearts are not godly hearts.
@Brucev7 I hear you, I never stopped tithing or being thankful for what God has given me! But in my despair, I stopped reading my bible like I used to and going to church! Yet, I believe that The Lord will not allow one of his sheep to stay away from the fold! I have experienced his grace in bringing me back and teaching me through the painful experiences. I think we have to be careful how we treat people who seem to have strayed. There is a time for rebuke and a time for gentleness!
@rolysantos 'I think we have to be careful how we treat people who seem to have strayed. There is a time for rebuke and a time for gentleness!' Is this a statement in general?
@Brucev7 Yes, I don't want to impugn your motives when you speak of people whose "hearts are not godly." I just know that I have been guilty of being harsh and unloving toward others (even other Christians) and yet I have also been guilty of living like an unbeliever and doing the things I have condemned. So, I have come to a point where I really want to walk circumspectly, holding out grace toward others, remembering how much grace God has shown me!
24 and let us consider how (A)to stimulate one another to love and (B)good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own (C)assembling together, as is the habit of some, but (D)encouraging one another; and all the more as you see (E)the day drawing near.
@rolysantos Pray for the HS to lead you to a healthy well balanced Christ centered church. Often we want everything, not realizing we are are fallible, but working on becoming more Christ like, with the help of the HS in daily sanctification, perfecting and with the encouragement and prayers of the brethren. When we stop reading and studying our Bible, we can start slipping away to the world and our selfish desires. Putting others and the Church, below us.
Jesus Christ WILL NEVER FAIL US IF we trust in Him with all our hearts. Jesus did not tell us to follow the church, but to follow HIM. Religion has set up a huge network called "denominations". Jesus hated sectarianism. HE wants us to One with Him and the Father. His words, not mans, are what we stand on. He said if we love Him, we will obey HIM. Seek HIM. He WILL be found by you, if you seek HIM with ALL of your heart. Trust no man, Trust GOD! Read Matt.24:23-26. He's right where you are!
That is like saying Christ failed you. Christianity is not a religion to fail or succeed. Your devotion must be to Christ not people pleasing. No person can write a book to content the human heart, God already has done that. If you cannot find it with God , you have a personal agenda not satisfactorily met to your standards.Christianity is not to satisfy but to believe wholly and sometimes with sever consequence.This topic is for those who don't want Christ but religion to comfort
Christianity has not failed me Christ has not failed me, yet i doubt if there is any church in this world that will even want to deal with the dialog i would bring with me if i joined up, i pursue my calling as an artist/songwriter taking that dialog that the church rejects to wherever people are interested
While Ravi does speak with passion, i think he might be overlooking the advice to leave and knock the dust off your feet when you / your message are rejected
Ravi, I just started reading your book Does God Exist and watching some videos of talks / discussions you have done, and I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love your ministry, the amazing intelligence God has given you, and your courage to take on the tough issues of life. Bless you
Has Christianity failed me? I do feel let down and disillusioned. But my belief in Christ being the Son of God, made incarnate, born of a virgin, crucified and died upon a cross for my sins and every single person's sins, then resurrected, defeating death and redeeming all of creation--for now and, but not yet fully consummated--and ascended into Heaven with the promise of the Holy Spirit and the promise of His return for His Church, remains absolutely steadfast. But I don't like church!
@moxie1956 "His return for His Church". That means he is coming for you and you are the church. It is not some building or a monument. When people of God gather together for worship, they bring church with them.
@aproxym Of course I know what the Church is! And that is why I differentiate with a capital "C" for His Church, as opposed to not liking church with a lower case "c." I have run the gamut of catholic and protestant churches over 5 decades, and I have my reasons for saying "I don't like church. " Perhaps it would be more precise to say I don't like organized religion. I have come to highly value certain things, however, such as liturgy and Holy Communion.
I've read Ravi's book....it is awesome there are two pages of the book that I would have paid hundreds of dollars to have had the knowledge contained in them earlier in my life. Get the book and make some amazing discoveries regarding what should be centreal to your faith and is central to all Christianity no matter who you are...or think you are.
Isn't it the Holy Spirit who changes a persons heart so they can receive the things of the Spirit? The seed is planted through the Gospel. Some right away, others it takes years before the Spirit changes their heart. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Why get all worked up when someone won't come to faith? It's not for everyone.
"Why get all worked up when someone won't come to faith?"
Suppose you stopped at a gas station one morning and upon walking to the counter you were handed a million dollars by the clerk. The clerk then informs you that today they are giving away one million dollars to every customer... no strings attached.. all you have to do is show up. Let's then suppose you go tell your friends and the members of your family this amazing news. What then is your response if they choose to not go?
I don't believe in the existence of 'atheists' as to be an atheist necessarily entails omniscience in order to make the absolute claim that 'there is no God' and omniscience is an exclusive attribute of seity so either way- you're wrong.
(Keep in mind that the modern redefinition of atheism- to merely 'lack belief' falls short of the *actual* definition: a- no; theos-god)
@southernjosh It's my job as a child of Christ to plant the seed by sharing the Gospel. God does the rest. They might not come to repentance until 20 years later, they might not at all. Not everyone is called by God. God call His elect at His timing, not ours. Sure my heart aches for those who don't hear the call, but my job is to be light and salt in a world ruled by Satan.
God chooses everyone and uses us to deliver His message (seed) through the Bible. Christ message is not exclusive but inclusive. In our human frailty we often do not deliver the message in the best manner. Ravi has spent a large portion of his life to deliver it in a way we understand and to reinforce what we already have faith in but could not articulate it or defend it.
Christians don't follow , YHWH , Laws, and ,Yahushua The Messiah ,words.
Christians are following, pagan customs and traditions . How can anyone claim " Christianity failed them " when they didn't keep ,the commandments, in the first place . Praying and bowing down to idols is a sin, yet Christians are notorious for keeping this pagan custom .
Je sus is not The Hebrew Messiah Name. There is no letter "J" in the Hebrew Tex . The Name "je sus" is not even a Hebrew Name.
Baal worship in the Roman Catholic Churches will lead to your Death . Baal type of religion ,hides most effectively ,behind the christianized version of the Hebrews Scriptures . Here an Example , Sunday (the day of the sun) morning service has replaced The Sabbath Day of Rest. The Mass , which is centered around the Eucharist, which is a small biscuit disc representing the sun, is kept inside the Monstrance Sunburst " a sun icon ". The Eucharist is only a modern day form of Baal worship,.
Baal, literal meaning is "lord, Master ,Possessor " . Baal was the " Sun god " of the Canaanites
The Symbol Of Baal was a [ circle with a Cross ] in the middle or center. Solar wheel was also a symbol for Baal worship . It can be found carved into ancient as well as modern Buddhist temples . In St Peter's square it has the largest solar wheel on planet. ALL Catholic churches have numerous solar wheels in it's stain glass windows as well as many other areas in the churches
That's silly. Just because something exists doesn't mean it is therefore correct and moral. Quite the opposite. Most of the things that happen in this world ought not happen or exist.
@Sidney38SNJ... what lies have you been reading? Most people do not want to hear the truth, because that means that they have to change, so they twist God's word to make it fit their lifestyle. God loves all people, including homesexuals, just as he loves liars and cheaters, adulters, etc. but that does not mean that it is not a sin to God. Homosexuality is a perversion of God's design. God loves all who are sinners and sent His Son Jesus to die, but it was a costly price as sin is serious.
@shazam679 get the book! Ravi Zacharias is amazing, and should address the issues that concern you. Remember... sitting on the fence is still a decision, just like sitting on the sidelines watching others play the game. God is big enough to handle all of your questions. If you sincerely want to know the truth and diligently ask Him to reveal it to you, there will be no stopping God in doing just that. Also, get the best book of all, the Bible. God bless! :)
I cannot wait for this book! If Ravi Zacharias writes it, you can be sure you will come away with a much stronger Faith after reading it!! Ravi Zacharias (and RZIM) are a great blessing from God in my (and my husband's) walk with Christ!!
It might fail, but "it must fail" takes on the idea of good and evil or of truth or fiction. To posit one excludes the other, so both things are false if your statement is true.
I'm wondering why a statement so resolute. What happened?
It's just me, Jennifer wondering, it's ok to reply to just me: jennifersaunier@yahoo.com
ive got 3 of his books and many of his dvds and pod cast from rzim he gets into the meat of things if you havent been to rzim web site you dont know what your missing
I fell away from the faith of my youth because I felt the works part of salvation (& the impossibility) while the blessing of grace was not a strong enough message at my Church. Reading Galatians helped me get back to the correct information pathway. This is an important issue and I look forward to checking this book out.
the 'church' starts with us individually at home first, and then we serve. when one starts to do those things Jesus asked us to do then others follow..... at least that is how I see it
eradutiu 6 months ago
I am a Christian, I love the Lord, and yet I have felt like "the church" has failed me! I have felt like I could not ever find a place where I felt like I was at home. I did leave the church and yet in my heart and according to scripture, we must be part of a fellowship of believers! So what's the problem? A book that has helped me is to realize that the problem may not actually be other people is called "Hiding From Love" by Dr. John Townsend. This book has been big help for me.
rolysantos 7 months ago
Comment removed
Brucev7 4 months ago
@Brucev7 Thanks! You're absolutely right.
rolysantos 4 months ago
@rolysantos I hear Christians say it a lot. They stop reading and studying their Bible, memorizing scripture, praising God for a roof, food, transportation, job, family, loved ones, friends, church, witnessing and tithing. Stop serving the Lord, their neighbors. They turn inward. Their hearts are not godly hearts.
Brucev7 4 months ago
@Brucev7 I hear you, I never stopped tithing or being thankful for what God has given me! But in my despair, I stopped reading my bible like I used to and going to church! Yet, I believe that The Lord will not allow one of his sheep to stay away from the fold! I have experienced his grace in bringing me back and teaching me through the painful experiences. I think we have to be careful how we treat people who seem to have strayed. There is a time for rebuke and a time for gentleness!
rolysantos 4 months ago
@rolysantos 'I think we have to be careful how we treat people who seem to have strayed. There is a time for rebuke and a time for gentleness!' Is this a statement in general?
Brucev7 4 months ago
@Brucev7 Yes, I don't want to impugn your motives when you speak of people whose "hearts are not godly." I just know that I have been guilty of being harsh and unloving toward others (even other Christians) and yet I have also been guilty of living like an unbeliever and doing the things I have condemned. So, I have come to a point where I really want to walk circumspectly, holding out grace toward others, remembering how much grace God has shown me!
rolysantos 4 months ago
@rolysantos Hebrews 10:24-25
24 and let us consider how (A)to stimulate one another to love and (B)good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own (C)assembling together, as is the habit of some, but (D)encouraging one another; and all the more as you see (E)the day drawing near.
Brucev7 4 months ago
@rolysantos Pray for the HS to lead you to a healthy well balanced Christ centered church. Often we want everything, not realizing we are are fallible, but working on becoming more Christ like, with the help of the HS in daily sanctification, perfecting and with the encouragement and prayers of the brethren. When we stop reading and studying our Bible, we can start slipping away to the world and our selfish desires. Putting others and the Church, below us.
Brucev7 4 months ago
Faith is a struggle; Christ is comfort...
gatsbyfaulkner 7 months ago
Jesus Christ WILL NEVER FAIL US IF we trust in Him with all our hearts. Jesus did not tell us to follow the church, but to follow HIM. Religion has set up a huge network called "denominations". Jesus hated sectarianism. HE wants us to One with Him and the Father. His words, not mans, are what we stand on. He said if we love Him, we will obey HIM. Seek HIM. He WILL be found by you, if you seek HIM with ALL of your heart. Trust no man, Trust GOD! Read Matt.24:23-26. He's right where you are!
FreeTheCaptives 9 months ago
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Ravi Zacharias... fail.
Rurne 11 months ago
success is measured by moving from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm
agreatflood2121 1 year ago
That is like saying Christ failed you. Christianity is not a religion to fail or succeed. Your devotion must be to Christ not people pleasing. No person can write a book to content the human heart, God already has done that. If you cannot find it with God , you have a personal agenda not satisfactorily met to your standards.Christianity is not to satisfy but to believe wholly and sometimes with sever consequence.This topic is for those who don't want Christ but religion to comfort
polopowers1 1 year ago
Christianity has not failed me Christ has not failed me, yet i doubt if there is any church in this world that will even want to deal with the dialog i would bring with me if i joined up, i pursue my calling as an artist/songwriter taking that dialog that the church rejects to wherever people are interested
While Ravi does speak with passion, i think he might be overlooking the advice to leave and knock the dust off your feet when you / your message are rejected
tafxkz 1 year ago
Ravi, I just started reading your book Does God Exist and watching some videos of talks / discussions you have done, and I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love your ministry, the amazing intelligence God has given you, and your courage to take on the tough issues of life. Bless you
seanraybuck 1 year ago
Has Christianity failed me? I do feel let down and disillusioned. But my belief in Christ being the Son of God, made incarnate, born of a virgin, crucified and died upon a cross for my sins and every single person's sins, then resurrected, defeating death and redeeming all of creation--for now and, but not yet fully consummated--and ascended into Heaven with the promise of the Holy Spirit and the promise of His return for His Church, remains absolutely steadfast. But I don't like church!
moxie1956 1 year ago
@moxie1956 "His return for His Church". That means he is coming for you and you are the church. It is not some building or a monument. When people of God gather together for worship, they bring church with them.
aproxym 1 year ago
@aproxym Of course I know what the Church is! And that is why I differentiate with a capital "C" for His Church, as opposed to not liking church with a lower case "c." I have run the gamut of catholic and protestant churches over 5 decades, and I have my reasons for saying "I don't like church. " Perhaps it would be more precise to say I don't like organized religion. I have come to highly value certain things, however, such as liturgy and Holy Communion.
moxie1956 1 year ago
I've read Ravi's book....it is awesome there are two pages of the book that I would have paid hundreds of dollars to have had the knowledge contained in them earlier in my life. Get the book and make some amazing discoveries regarding what should be centreal to your faith and is central to all Christianity no matter who you are...or think you are.
Shadrack43 1 year ago
Isn't it the Holy Spirit who changes a persons heart so they can receive the things of the Spirit? The seed is planted through the Gospel. Some right away, others it takes years before the Spirit changes their heart. John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Why get all worked up when someone won't come to faith? It's not for everyone.
oldno74 1 year ago
@oldno74
"Why get all worked up when someone won't come to faith?"
Suppose you stopped at a gas station one morning and upon walking to the counter you were handed a million dollars by the clerk. The clerk then informs you that today they are giving away one million dollars to every customer... no strings attached.. all you have to do is show up. Let's then suppose you go tell your friends and the members of your family this amazing news. What then is your response if they choose to not go?
southernjosh 1 year ago
@southernjosh wow that is just well.... im a atheist
adhdboy699 1 year ago
Comment removed
SojourningWhyman 1 year ago
@adhdboy699
I don't believe in the existence of 'atheists' as to be an atheist necessarily entails omniscience in order to make the absolute claim that 'there is no God' and omniscience is an exclusive attribute of seity so either way- you're wrong.
(Keep in mind that the modern redefinition of atheism- to merely 'lack belief' falls short of the *actual* definition: a- no; theos-god)
I beleive that is Quad Erat Demonstrandum
SojourningWhyman 1 year ago
@southernjosh It's my job as a child of Christ to plant the seed by sharing the Gospel. God does the rest. They might not come to repentance until 20 years later, they might not at all. Not everyone is called by God. God call His elect at His timing, not ours. Sure my heart aches for those who don't hear the call, but my job is to be light and salt in a world ruled by Satan.
God Bless
oldno74 1 year ago
@oldno74
God chooses everyone and uses us to deliver His message (seed) through the Bible. Christ message is not exclusive but inclusive. In our human frailty we often do not deliver the message in the best manner. Ravi has spent a large portion of his life to deliver it in a way we understand and to reinforce what we already have faith in but could not articulate it or defend it.
Shadrack43 1 year ago
Thank you for the blessing. God Bless !!! ... GoodPersonTEST com
GoodPersonTestDOTcom 1 year ago
@Sidney38SNJ Thanks for the information on this...I am going to check out the website that you site...and figure this how issue out! Thanks again.
supers130 1 year ago
Christians don't follow , YHWH , Laws, and ,Yahushua The Messiah ,words.
Christians are following, pagan customs and traditions . How can anyone claim " Christianity failed them " when they didn't keep ,the commandments, in the first place . Praying and bowing down to idols is a sin, yet Christians are notorious for keeping this pagan custom .
Je sus is not The Hebrew Messiah Name. There is no letter "J" in the Hebrew Tex . The Name "je sus" is not even a Hebrew Name.
derekdb2 1 year ago
Baal worship in the Roman Catholic Churches will lead to your Death . Baal type of religion ,hides most effectively ,behind the christianized version of the Hebrews Scriptures . Here an Example , Sunday (the day of the sun) morning service has replaced The Sabbath Day of Rest. The Mass , which is centered around the Eucharist, which is a small biscuit disc representing the sun, is kept inside the Monstrance Sunburst " a sun icon ". The Eucharist is only a modern day form of Baal worship,.
derekdb2 1 year ago
Baal, literal meaning is "lord, Master ,Possessor " . Baal was the " Sun god " of the Canaanites
The Symbol Of Baal was a [ circle with a Cross ] in the middle or center. Solar wheel was also a symbol for Baal worship . It can be found carved into ancient as well as modern Buddhist temples . In St Peter's square it has the largest solar wheel on planet. ALL Catholic churches have numerous solar wheels in it's stain glass windows as well as many other areas in the churches
derekdb2 1 year ago
@Sidney38SNJ
That's silly. Just because something exists doesn't mean it is therefore correct and moral. Quite the opposite. Most of the things that happen in this world ought not happen or exist.
v01741r31 1 year ago
@Sidney38SNJ check out Ravi Zacharias video on YouTube "Acceptance of Homosexuality in Christianity"
azgirl777 1 year ago
@Sidney38SNJ... what lies have you been reading? Most people do not want to hear the truth, because that means that they have to change, so they twist God's word to make it fit their lifestyle. God loves all people, including homesexuals, just as he loves liars and cheaters, adulters, etc. but that does not mean that it is not a sin to God. Homosexuality is a perversion of God's design. God loves all who are sinners and sent His Son Jesus to die, but it was a costly price as sin is serious.
azgirl777 1 year ago
@Sidney38SNJ Are you saying being Gay is okay in Christianity?
supers130 1 year ago
@supers130 Its ok in the law, the law rules the land, Christianity does not, religion will not be around forever, the law will.
166beads 1 year ago
@166beads Is it wrong within Christianity to be gay?
supers130 1 year ago
@supers130 to be a practising gay yes, but that's like telling a straight couple not to have sex, it just doesn't work.
166beads 1 year ago
@Sidney38SNJ Have you ever heard of Henri Nouwen? He was gay, and Christian, and was probably one of the greatest saints of our time.
jajdr 1 year ago
i think i shud get this book.. atm, im sitting on the fence...
shazam679 1 year ago
@shazam679 get the book! Ravi Zacharias is amazing, and should address the issues that concern you. Remember... sitting on the fence is still a decision, just like sitting on the sidelines watching others play the game. God is big enough to handle all of your questions. If you sincerely want to know the truth and diligently ask Him to reveal it to you, there will be no stopping God in doing just that. Also, get the best book of all, the Bible. God bless! :)
azgirl777 1 year ago
I cannot wait for this book! If Ravi Zacharias writes it, you can be sure you will come away with a much stronger Faith after reading it!! Ravi Zacharias (and RZIM) are a great blessing from God in my (and my husband's) walk with Christ!!
Bootmom12 1 year ago
It must fail, it's false.
DoubtingThomas666 1 year ago
@DoubtingThomas666
Hi Thomas
It might fail, but "it must fail" takes on the idea of good and evil or of truth or fiction. To posit one excludes the other, so both things are false if your statement is true.
I'm wondering why a statement so resolute. What happened?
It's just me, Jennifer wondering, it's ok to reply to just me: jennifersaunier@yahoo.com
JenniferSHaber 1 year ago
I'm certain this book will be a great tool. I'm really looking forward to reading it.
fingerfootmusic 1 year ago
This is a great idea. There are so many ex-believers out there and many of them never heard the correct gospel message.
davemakesawave 1 year ago
I love the way Mr. Z's mind works. Everything becomes crystal clear after listening to him.
jazzinnature081 1 year ago
Dr Ravi is a blessing, such an intelligent philosopher and yet so humble. His love of Christ is evident in all his work.
superbill2 1 year ago
ive got 3 of his books and many of his dvds and pod cast from rzim he gets into the meat of things if you havent been to rzim web site you dont know what your missing
Ravi--- God bless you and keep you
OOPS4U2CNOW 1 year ago 2
See Paul Washer. The church in America is dead. We are Babylon. And time is running out.
psycofloyd 1 year ago
I fell away from the faith of my youth because I felt the works part of salvation (& the impossibility) while the blessing of grace was not a strong enough message at my Church. Reading Galatians helped me get back to the correct information pathway. This is an important issue and I look forward to checking this book out.
rusty2029 1 year ago 2
looks good
paragonshadow 1 year ago
I'll be looking for it and forward to it. :)
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
I'll be looking for it and forward to it. :)
Tsuruta1 1 year ago