GDC 2010: Sid Meier Keynote - "Everything You Know is Wrong"

[apocalypse105]

They made this mistake with civ 5 making the AI human big mistake

[apocalypse105]

Ai should not act like a person deffinitly in a civilization game !!!!!

[bernlin2000]

His knowledge of game design seems really weak and simplified, which doesn't speak well to today's gaming environment. Civilization V is probably the most poorly designed of the Civilization PC series: if Meier "gets it" then why has his flagship series flagged recently? Very disappointing.

[LZIM]

Watched this again today and so many of these points are still so fundamentally gratingly wrong for Civ and Railroads because of the concept of game for 'player' and not 'audience'. Thankfully Railroads is still so much fun to play. I don't I'll ever play Civ as a tabletop turn-based and probability based game. Civ based on Spore and real units and billions and trillions of people might eventually be fun if Firaxis ever wakes up to the fact that RTS is better for rational people.

[lvldsnr]

Totally agreed on the save-system.

At the time my enjoyment on FPS was reloading every shootout to see if i could win with the lesser ammo waste... now i'm totally over it, i find it anal and not funny at all (sometimes it takes on me again but shortly).

Quicksave/load was a bummer! I'm really happy about checkpoints.

[plastiqe]

I, for one, welcome our new Sid Meier overlords

[Grishnoob]

Good god, NOISE GATE ON THE MIC PLEASE! That god damn buzzing is driving me insane.

[Clovertone]

I found this talk quite interesting. Thank you Sid, GDC and all the poeple involved in getting it here, and keeping me from sleeping yet again!

[BarrySlisk]

Sounds like Sid babies his players too much. I dont want the game to baby me.

[WSWarthog]

@BarrySlisk

SM knows what he's doing. The gameplay on every Sid Meier game I've ever played is crack-level addictive. Seriously, he said how WoW keeps players interested with the level system but he's being modest because WoW has nothing on his games.

[bernlin2000]

@WSWarthog Huh? WoW is far more addictive, from what I've seen: quest-based games oftentimes are. It's easier to quit Civ because games only last so long. WoW characters never have to end, and they continue to release expansions that raise the level, and add new content at all different levels. Not to mention that MMORPG's are probably the genre that has the greatest potential to be addictive, due to the social element.

[WSWarthog]

@bernlin2000

I quit WoW a long time back and don't regret it one iota. Still sometimes get the hankering to load up Civ II and play until the sun comes up and tries to kill me.

[BarrySlisk]

Sounds like Sid babies his players too much. I dont want the game to baby me.

[MasterDarkarbiter]

I think it should depend on ai leaders as to what their response is.

Only around 10% or maybe 20 of leaders should still be making demands while seriously losing. Perhaps a better response they should say is "I don't care what you take from us... the french will eventually get their revenge" or something intelligent and realistic like that.

[Dandramere]

Nice to see a games designer with humility.

[system3142]

"Whether you THINK you're left handed or right handed"

What is going through this man's mind?

[chuckiej]

Little does he know the dancing bears are actually in the game when you hit A on that screen at 35:00

:)

[Hanueberalles]

He is wrong here.

10:20 odds is TOTALLY different from 1:2 odds.

[MasterFancyPants]

@Hanueberalles

No... 10:20 divided by 10 = 1:2  1:2 multiplied by 10 = 10:20

[bwjoke]

um。。。。。um。。。。。um。。。。。

[Pwn777]

camera man gave me a headache

[JSSJR90]

someone please fire that camera guy!

[Twibles]

Do they have retarded play tester and they actually listen to them?

[SmokinDragon666]

Sid Meier defined gaming for me as a youth with sim city and the civ series, but for me, civ 4 was a huge let down. It felt like half of the "turns" (press enter or end turn button) had been removed, and my actions as a player seemed to have little effect on the growth rate of my empire.

I hope in Civ 5 there is a fundamental shift back to content and strategy.

Civ was always a game based on stats and tables, and making the stats less relevant in the game seems like its being destroyed

[vleup]

@SmokinDragon666 sorry but sim city isn't Sid's work but will wright's ;)

[ThePolysyllabist]

The reason why people expect to win, save and reload, is because that is the only available path to victory. Defeat is not incentivised; it is never designed as a path to victory.

Path A is where I win the battle

Path B is where I lose, but the veteran survivors add experience and heal another unit as they are reformed into them.

Now losing becomes a part of winning. Sure I lost my best unit even though I had a 3:1 odds. But now my second best swordsman is even more powerful than the first!

[cuddlysac]

I'd love to watch this, but ten minutes in, the awful camera work has put me off. If you were the cameraman, shame on you!

[doomsday800]

sid meier is my idol 

[Shukfir]

Have you noticed? Every time on the screen Sid says phrase "test of time". Why?

[ivargu1]

@sirmolio You are of course right. But my point was that sports are themselves games that have designed rulesets that exist to further gameplay/enjoyment not to represent any sense of "reality". You can play that game casually or professionally whether the game is called Basketball, Chess, Poker, or CounterStrike. Either way, all are just games and as such their rulesets and design have nothing to do with the representation of success and failure in "real life".

[2computer1]

Sid Meier is the best strategy game designer ever.

[viper19861986]

@2computer1 him and will wright!

[duschlampe1995]

very true!

[ivargu1]

Funny that when he is talking about winners in real life he uses sports as an example, stating for instance that out of the 25 NBA teams only one gets to win. How is this reality? Sports are also games, and winning and losing in sports in the same as games... it's not "real life", that would be success in your private or personal life in my humble opinion.

[sirmolio]

@ivargu1 Well, to the athletes all of that is surely "real life" as it is their livelihood. It is reality in that there is no reloading if you fail, at least for that season. If you lose you, you are out. One winner only.

Having said that, all his claims/statements apply to single-player only, which is arguable not that relevant given that most players probably play multiplayer. But whatever.

[infernalcross]

This guy is a pure genius. Truly the father of games, computer games to be specific. Good games from him every single time :)

[sirmolio]

Hey, was there a Q&A session after this speech? Where audience asked questions.. I'd love to see it, thanks

[Jester2055]

The guy seems like a pompous know-it-all. He has a nice perspective on a lot of things, but is ass backwards in a lot of respects because he thinks his opinion is law.

[olemunati]

@Jester2055 37:50 one of many examples of humbleness from Sid. I see your argument though. When people have this amounts of experience with failures and all, they might sound a little pompous. 

[erikpiper]

The most interesting part for me was his description of the CivRev teams' willingness to shoehorn game mathematics in CivRev to meet player expectations, rather than just say "it's statistics, live with it."

[AARST]

I swear, Sid should go into stand-up comedy.

[volmir69]

This is what is missing at EA, an inteligent developer... I love Sid's games because they are ineteligent.

[kosiak10851]

Can someone tell me what is he saying at 46:20, please? I can't understand some words from that sentence! I hear something like "I'm kinda assuming that ... to the idea..." Help please!

[tks2103]

awful terrible camera work. zoom out and show the slides when he changes a slide. esp when he freaking references a slide. fail camera, fail harder

[sirmolio]

@tks2103 shut up fag and appreciate the content.. more specifically, appreciate the fact that this nigger provided this content to you, fucked up camerawork or otherwise.. i don't like your tone.. dude ur just one of the millions of useless specks of humanity on this planet providing no service whatsoever except bitching, which is not a service.. until u fuckin do something that pleases me, fuck off and appreciate those who offer worth, unlike u.

[L00pyL0u]

I'm sorry. Maybe i'd watch a 53:58 minute long video about explaining how the universe works, or explaining the human races purpose on the planet...but a 53:58 minute long video of a guy on a stage talking about something as trivial as video games? NO THANKS. I defy even the hardcore(st?) of gamers to watch this video start to end.

Besides, from the first minute or so that i watched, it seems he is being overly melodramatic about games. Talking about psychology? It's a fucking GAME.

[eantquox]

@l00pyl0u it's GDC. It's a conference for Game Designers, not for gamers. The psychology of the player needs to be understood to provide what the player wants, but also what the player needs so that they are engaged and want to keep playing.

[MayuZane]

@eantquox l00pyl0u clearly suffers from a case of 'jumping to conclusions'

[L00pyL0u]

Dont care, Dont Care....DONT CARE. Theres bigger shit going on in the world.

[theonly1V]

@L00pyL0u: Psychology is relevant to all things human - it's about how people perceive events, and how they deal with them. A video game would have a huge psychological componenet, because it's about the immersion of a gamer into a world designers have created. For this immersion to be successful, you need to understand how people will perceive the experience.

FYI, video games are not trivial - they are an increasing part of our daily lives, changing how ppl think of entertainment in general.

[L00pyL0u]

Look i understand that there are mega bucks behind games these days, and thats why conferences like this are held because they need to do their shitty 'market research' and this type of bullshit because of whats at stake...but seriously, at the end of the day it is 'JUST' a GAME. It's looking WAY too deep into a medium of entertainment that barely existed 40 years ago.

If this was a relevant topic i would take time out of my day to contribute towards the argument, but seriously..its about GAMES!

[theonly1V]

@L00pyL0u Your narrow-mindedness astounds me - it goes way beyond just "shitty marketing" and money-making. You just see it as a "stupid game", but people that actually have a perspective on how current events/trends can affect the future on a societal scale understand that although the medium is relatively new, its impact is growing fast. Clearly you know nothing of the video game industry - which is why you should do some research before discounting it as "just games" and a waste of time.

[L00pyL0u]

Actually, "FYI", I studied Games Tech for one year at college last year with the ambition to becoming a designer myself. I stopped after the first year because i realised it was a mugs game and i set out to get a real job instead of chasing fantasies. So goes to show what u know about me dosnt it. Who's narrow minded now? ;]. And btw u have a condescending way of putting things, and im full aware of the situation we are in as a society.

[L00pyL0u]

@theonly1V....I just cant understand the point in our history as a race where we decided it was acceptable to pay actors, sportsmen and anyone who is in the entertainment business the top salaries...while the people who actually make a difference (i.e save lives) like doctors, nurses and chemists have to struggle like FUCK to get any form of funding what so ever.

And in that perspective, any 'impact' the games industry will make will be totally cosmetic. It's all fantasy and make-believe...

[theonly1V]

@L00pyL0u : I certainly don't disagree with that point - preventive programs, medical and social are always underfunded. I still think that the psychological components to game design are very important and that it indeed does have a significant cultural/social impact. The worth of paying entertainers and pro sport athletes is another debate entirely - and yes, I also think it's ridiculous. As for being condescending, I apologize - it was not my intention (I still disagree w/ ur pt of vu). :P

[L00pyL0u]

@theonly1V Fair does =]. I just miss the side-scrolling days of Sonic on the Sega Genesis. Abit like CGI in films, i think some of the magic has gone from games by over complicating them =[. I used to love the days where to unlock a new roster of characters like in a game like Street Fighter or Tekken, you had to defeat the game on various difficulties...not shell out another fuking $10.

Has nothing to do with anything does it lmao! DAMN i miss the 90's though =/...

[Thet3]

@L00pyL0u I see what you mean!!! but People like NBA player can make so much becuz The NBA Business generates So much money!!! In other words theirs more money in it!!

[DavidM1337]

It's not for players, it's for designers. I'm a game designer myself, so I enjoy watching his thoughts.

[cosmicironman]

what company do you work for?

[ekmad]

Camera work is bloody awful on this.

[h3x3nslay3r]

holy shat this is long

[gamerproHQ]

this guy is a dumbass

[tomtomwolfwolf]

this is very interesting but wayy to long,

[PEEGIII]

that was quite educational i i liked it

[thepineapple1]

sid, think of this, what happens when you start dreaming that you are in a video game....tonight i dreamed i was in a game, epic map, was going around stabbing people in the throat, only to realise that i was holding a Killzone2 knife and was breaking the necks of hellghast....

[polnatista2410]

I had a dream about Homeworld once, was brilliant lol. Just thought i'd throw that out there.

[eantquox]

let's hear it for the cold war. lol.

Fantastic presentation

[Kosaine]

I also think the title's disingenuous. Most of the stuff he is talking about is stuff that game developers do already know about the casual segment of their populations.

What a shocker to find that he doesn't like games like Demon's Souls that actually challenge the player and might present the entitled kids his philosophy is about with too much challenge for their skill set to handle.

[Drathy]

95% of commentators don't know who Sid Meier is.

[eantquox]

Amen to that

[x6xk1LLx9x]

cant believe i listened to that whole thing, it was actually kinda worth it though, i might never play video games the same way again.

[Kosaine]

I really disagree with a lot of the material in this talk. I think when he talks about playtesting and all these faults 'the player' has, he's really talking about the lowest common denominator.

Also don't think the crowd is really buying it.

And let's cap this off with; Alpha Centauri, a Brian Reynolds game with Sid Meier's name on it, is superior to ANY of these Civilization repeats.

Nobody will tackle him off the podium as you watch this. But they saved money, by letting you imagine it.

[wasdwasdedsf]

lol, proof?

[Swordsman629]

So I think he means that most people dont care about challenges. Most people only care about winning and feel good about themselves. Which makes so much sense. Or maybe they just care about seeing bright lights. One of those "ooo ahh" moments.

[wessiderider187]

no you dummy he's talking about causing frustration. you probably rage quit barbie horse adventure cuz it was to "challenging"

[Swordsman629]

@wessiderider187

Depends on what you think is frustration. He already said that If the AI was dumb then people will say it has been dumbed down. But if the AI was smart the player will think that it cheated instead of thinking about it as a new challenge. I was talking about games like call of duty. If you played it you can see that they simplified the game so much that even a little kid can jump in and play it.

[197Callum]

droning noise in the background is SO annoying lol, and damn he cant half go on :-D lol

[joevictor53]

I'm sorry but can someone just summarise what he's talking about for anyone who doesn't have an hour to watch a Youtube video

[Swordsman629]

@joevictor53

mental physiology in gaming. hes just talking about what most gamers think when playing video games. Its like hes teaching a game developing course!

[aidenmccloskey]

everything you know is wrong

but i wont learn cause this is too long

ill press the red x at the top

to make this video stop

[SOLIDSNAKEXXX360]

learn sony learn

[Axelander9999]

Somehow, he sounded like he was improvising a lot

[sirmolio]

@Axelander9999 and improvising a speech is better than reading a rehearsed scripted speech because...? Let me preempt your vacuous response and label you a dumbass. Sid Meier is a genius, a brilliant God. Stop feeling so ungood about yourself and start improving your sorry ass so that some day you can be as awesomely revolutionarily influential as he is.

[jakal323]

@Axelander9999 It sounds more like extemporaneous speaking. He knows the basic speaking points but the words are naturally coming out of his mouth. I thought that it was quite good.

[IBrokeRules1and2lulz]

@2con12 very sexy

[drummerjc1995]

@2con12 fail