The End of 405 line TV part 2

[claphamdaniel]

if it had been 625 lines we would never had colour like we have to day all this digtial television that happping because digtial television is the future alanouge tv gone since they maded better televisions digtial television and every thing is better in colour you can see the television picture woul not see that if it was black and white from daniel clapham

[AidanLunn]

@claphamdaniel Colour was possible on 405 and 525 lines. The number of lines bears no relation whatsoever to the capability to transmit extra information.

[fraserkatie]

David Miles the announcer there was part of TV history in the making! He must be proud! Lime Grove studios for the BBC is not there any more is it?

[wisteela]

Very interesting to see.

[northcliffe]

What a send of they gave to 405 line television. Check out how they closed down anologue not even a goodbye, nothing.

[thelyniezian]

@northcliffe That's because analogue is still broadcasting in parts of the country- up here in the Tyne Tees region we've another year left to go!

[AidanLunn]

the antenna "rabbit ears" format is called analogue.

[quantumbits]

@AidanLunn Weeeeeell, that's not really a correct association. The "rabbit ears" are just a dipole antenna to receive any signal on VHF band, They have nothing to do with a particular video format.

DTV is transmitted on VHF just like NTSC was and can be received by a digital tuner using the dipole antenna known as "rabbit ears" or a variety of loop and wedge antennas, just like in the analogue days.

[AidanLunn]

@quantumbits Yes, I knew that, I was just avoiding such technical terms as "waveband". I hate that word anyway.

And I knew that such aerials would work with digital terrestrial for much longer than a year so who knows why I said that?

[quantumbits]

@AidanLunn Ha! And to most of the populous it does not matter the technical details. But to geeky nuts like us well we just can't to let it go! LOL

[AidanLunn]

@quantumbits It's a wonder, then, why we don't call it "4058i", the "i" meaning "interlaced" :P

[quantumbits]

@AidanLunn Uhhhmmmmm idunno, whats the 8 for?

[AidanLunn]

@quantumbits woops, typo mistake.

[quantumbits]

@AidanLunn Oh. Yes it should have been 405 i....and I hate waveband too....very obtuse. 

[AidanLunn]

@quantumbits Actually, I've since discovered that it's actually 377i - because 377 of the lines actually carry video information.

[lrd9999]

@quantumbits At least in the US, they've grabbed all the VHF range except 88-108MHz for other communications purposes. All the channels labeled as being in the VHF range are actually re-mapped to UHF frequencies. Rabbit ears will still work in some places, but the ATSC antennas they now sell are closer in size to a UHF bowtie. I don't know if they're doing something similar for DTV in the UK.

[thelyniezian]

@lrd9999 I think the VHF frequencies are now used for digital radio?

[RTFishall]

How wonderful to hear the National Anthem being played at the end of TV for the day. I guess that would never happen today if television was not 24/7 for fear of upsetting ethnic minorities!

[kuroistuc]

@RTFishall I don't think most ethnic minorities would be upset to hear the national anthem! Don't believe everything the Daily Mail tells you...

[MIKON8ERISBACK]

@RTFishall It's exactly the same thing here in Canada.

[gramule]

@RTFishall yawn, and ther i was , thinking bernard manning had died. wake up and smell the coffee my friend. lol

[AidanLunn]

@RTFishall Many channels on satellite close down.

In fact, Radio 4 still do the national anthem at 1am when they close down and hand over to the World Service so your "political correctness" theory doesn't quite ring true.

[chrislyon06]

We should still have the national anthem.

[otrab1080]

lol @ 625 lines being High Definition. But I guess one day we'll lol at 1080 lines being high definition.

[benkid77]

The 405-line system was also originally known as "high-definition".

Well, it was compared to previous 30-line systems. :)

[LuthansaTerminal]

listen again, he doesn't say 'high definition' he says 'improved definition' which 625 undoubtedly was.

Although in 1936, 405 lines was termed as 'high definition'

[northernanorak]

He says it over the clock, inviting viewers to join BBC1 tomorrow for "more high definition viewing".

[scottlens]

@LuthansaTerminal definitely said "high definition"

[miketoriant]

more high definition viewing.. wow that sounds so funny now xD

[Rickyrab]

Here in the USA, we're about to do a switchover of signal format ourselves ("analog TV" to "digital TV" in February), essentially meanign that the rabbit ears crowd is going to need a funny box or something.

[exploder76]

Time: 12:07 a.m.

Date of closedown: Jan. 3, 1985 (Early hours of Jan. 4,1985

Announcer: David Miles

[reldex143]

Well, Mr. Miles had warned to televiewers that the 405 Line TV has ended after 48 years and 2 months. It was started in November 1936 and it was ended on Jan. 3, 1985.

[kargaroc386]

Jan. 4 u mean

[AidanLunn]

Jan 3rd actually as this was at the end of the Radio times listings for that day. Yes, I know it's technically Jan. 4th but in things to do with late-night television it is assigned to the date that it is listed on, not the day it's broadcast on.

[wrestlingnewsdesk]

high def back then...

[gramule]

Thnks for posting, end of an era. Good for the BBC for doing this.

[Mahelf]

Thank you very much for this great historical moment. 405 lines system A stille remains the TV system that survived the longest time, from 1936 to 1985! Unfortunately in France, TF1, although still publicly owned at that time, didn't bother in waiving goodbye to its 819 lines network...

[jonaynge2k7]

Does every one think they will eventually phrase out the 625 pal line system in favour for the 720 or 1,080 line pal system?

[AidanLunn]

yep. It goes by the name of digital switchover

[keda1981]

625 is on its way out. The standard digital signal (never mind the HD one) is 500-odd lines (525 i think) - and will replace the 625 signall across the UK between now and 2012.

[computersolutions164]

I think 525 lines refers to the the number of lines in the American NTSC system, and has nothing to do with digital at all, although digital does use fewer lines than the PAL system used in the U.K and Europe, most European countries have a variation on the PAL system (Phase Amplitude Line modulation), indicated by the letter following it. PAL B, etc. I am not certain how many fewer lines digital actually uses though.

[LuthansaTerminal]

The way that lines are counted differs from digital to analogue. In the analogue world (PAL) it's referred to as 625 lines, in the digital world it's 576 lines. That's because 50 lines in analogue weren't used for the picture - the 'vertical blanking interval' which was later used for teletext and other uses

The American SD format known as 525 in analogue is 480 in digtal

[keda1981]

Thank you LT, I did not know that. :)

[placemaker1]

Thank you Terry for telling me over lunch today about your recording this this bit of history. Brings back memories of great TV.

[thatsthequestion]

Great they bothered mentioning this at all. I bet they won't do something like this when analogue terrestrial bites the dust...

[LuthansaTerminal]

I expect they will, but it won't be like this - 405 was turned off in one go, PAL is being turned off regionally. It's bound to get a mention in the news

[AidanLunn]

405 was turned off section by section. All the relays were turned off in the reverse order that they were switched on and then the main transmitters turned off on the same day although not all at exactly the same time. My dad remembers Tyne Tees switched their 405 transmitter off in the middle of that lunchtime's regional news.

[AnthonyUK]

Well,it had to happen. 405line analogue PAL steadily died out and more people were watching on the much more superior 625line PAL analogue system.

[dunebasher1971]

FWIW, 405 was *not* PAL.

[gomemdesoto]

The BBC did actually experiment with 405 line colour using NTSC in the late '50s. With a colour burst frequency of 2.65MHz.

[AnthonyUK]

NTSC is poor and when watched standards converted to PAL 625/50 the quality was appalling.

[AnthonyUK]

Motion judder/after motion flicker/strange colour rendition and other defects make NTSC-PAL conversions poor.

[AidanLunn]

I would suppose that somehwere someone has the last 405-line closedowns from each ITV region.

[ta455driver]

An excellent but sad listing for Christmas viewing. Thank you. Unfortunately I do feel that its close down took programme quality with it as well. But then thats just my humble opinion.. LOL