Clearly, a correct reading of the bible confirms that the only unselfish, morally-correct prayer is to pray that all prayers except your own are answered. ...oops... Now we know why prayer works; but doesn't work, because it works..because.....
I think you are bias. I ask a priest about the lost prayers and he said it is because we need to eat a banana before we pray. You did not eat a banana before praying which is why your prayer did not come true. My priest also mentioned that donating to a church $120 dollars will increase your chances by almost 20%
" So if we're all equally biased, and most everything we want to believe is inaccurate, uncertain or just wrong "; wouldn't that mean, If I believe in prayer, that my belief in prayer could be just as wrong and biased as your unbelief in it? I mean, we are all human.
We're not flipping coins here, guy. There is more to belief/knowledge than just picking random crap that feels good. The point is that you have to utilize empirical evidence based on scientific methods. We are justified in rejecting the power of prayer because there is ample evidence against it and no evidence for it. "Evidence" is not a bias.
But here is the thing. Prayer is not a science, nor is it a natural science or earth science. It is not something you stick under a microscope or run tests on using a scientific method. It is supernatural, and being supernatural how can the supernatural be made and tested by the natural using mere natural methods, scientific or not? It can't. It is a fellowship/relationship with your heavenly Father. The natural representation of that being your relationship with your earthly/biological father.
"It is not something you stick under a microscope or run tests on using a scientific method"
Sure it is. Why wouldn't it be? People have even done this already.
"how can the supernatural be made and tested by the natural?"
Because otherwise there is no distinction between a real, supernatural phenomenon versus some idiotic crap you just made up out of nothing and merely believe because it makes you feel good. You can't have your supernatural cake and eat it, too.
@bravelion2009 Can you prove that the supernatural even exists? Let me answer this for you; NO! You CANNOT prove that the supernatural exists, so stfu about it! You felt some weird shit, and wrongfully assumed that you were being possessed by a spirit or God himself. But, once again, prayer is just talking to yourself, without ANY shred of evidence to support it.
I'm sure we've asked our dads for things we wanted as kids. Did he give it to us? No, for me more not than yes. Did I know why all the time? No, but my father had his reasons for not giving me everything I wanted and he withheld out of my best interest. So it is with God. He has his own plan, can I know His mind or reasons? No. Prayer's purpose is not a Santa Clause wish list checked at Christmas to see if he got you everything and if not then he doesn't exist. It can't be treated as such.
@bravelion2009 The thing I don't understand about prayer is that people pray for things - yet accept that they do not get what they want because God has a plan. If so, why do people ask God to change his plan? Why not accept that the plan is the plan and that's that? If you are supposed to get it, you will get it. If you are not then you won't! Is it not much more likely that there is no pattern to the prayers getting answered because there is no-one to answer them and s**t just happens!
Jesus himself disagrees with you. Or have you not read the Bible?
Look Brave, the issue here is your ability to validate your claims. You are categorically stating as FACT, who God is, what God is, what God does, for whom, and under what conditions. Yet you have nothing to back this up except for the warm fuzzies it makes you feel. You are certainly free to continue believing, but don't be surprised when the rest of us call it "fraud."
I have read the Bible. In what sense would Jesus disagree with me in that prayer is not part of the physical realm of science to be disected and tested? Remember when Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness for forty days and satan told him if He was the Son of God to command this stone to become bread? Satan wanted to test Jesus power, to see if he really was the Son of God. How did He reply, "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."
Read Mark, 11:23-24. Anything you ask shall be given to you through prayer, if only you believe. Period. There are no caveats to this statement. Either Jesus is telling the truth, or he is full of crap.
"You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."
This statement is nothing more than a dubious tool for ducking the burden of proof. The whole point of that pesky "testing" is to differentiate between things that are real versus things that you conjured out of your own imagination. The Bible is basically telling you that you must be a gullible fool in order to exercise proper faith. I will have no part of it, and you would be wise to do follow suit.
Finally, I challenge you to consider something: If a man was trying to sell you a used car and he told you it gets 80 miles per gallon, would you believe him? What if he also told you that it gets 80 mpg ONLY AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE IT DOES. Or maybe he tells you that it won't work if you should ever attempt to calculate your mileage at the pump. In any non-religious context you would call this fraud, so please don't insult yourself by acting like this is compelling.
@bravelion2009 This statement you made here just makes Anti's point. This is confirmation bias, you are protecting your belief by changing the original theory slightly so it doesnt fail
Theory: Prayer works
Evidence: Most of the time nothing happens
New Theory: Prayer works, but only mysteriously, not all the time, and only on some requests, and not measurably by any study.
I prayed for a bully at school to get what he deserved. The next day he was chewed out by the dean for molesting another student. I got what I prayed for.
One problem: I am an atheist who prayed only as a joke!
AntiCitizenX, you say pompous things in your videos like, "So, this'll debunk all notion of Gods in every religion in one fell swoop." You have to realize that religion is a word that has contaminated our perspective. Christianity is nothing like Hinduism, although both are referred to as "religion." This word allows someone to assume that both are somewhat alike, when they're completely different. I challenge you to debunk a Hindu's notion of prayer:
It is not my job to debunk that which has failed to be remotely substantiated in the first place. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Yes. An old dude talks out of his ass for three minutes. If this is what I can expect from your standard of evidence, then I'm not interested. I don't think you understand what constitutes justifiable knowledge.
@AntiCitizenX You probably just clicked the video, then exited. You didn't even take into consideration his ideas, which echoed the perspective of Hinduism. Your only account of what he said was, "Some old guy talking out of his ass." I understand what justifiable knowledge is, I somehow doubt that you understand.
IT IS CALLED "EVIDENCE" HAN! Do you know what that means? I need more than some old moron babbling on about mystical mumbo jumbo. DEMONSTRATE TO ME that your ideas are more than a bunch of crap you just made up out of nothing.
@AntiCitizenX Are you by any chance familiar with concepts like 'comsic consciousness' or 'Gaian mind'? My point is that the mystical experience is the evidence, and that person you referred to as "some old dude" is echoing the insights of Hinduism. Did you even intuitively grasp the concepts he was expounding? Have you ever been to Michael Hoffman's website 'EgoDeath(dot)com'? I doubt it. If you want to be a more efficient atheist, you should at the very least, listen to Alan Watts.
That is why I can reject it out of hand. Your standard of evidence possesses a demonstrable capacity for getting people to believe in whatever arbitrary hokum that makes them comfortable. So although I appreciate the sincere effort you are making, you have to understand that subjective convictions don't amount to a hill of beans in an honest search for truth.
@AntiCitizenX Well, then you'll continue to circumambulate the very ground and root of religion until you acknowledge this psychedelic dimension. You said yourself that you don't doubt it's an intense experience, well it is. It's so profound, that people have called it God. It may just be our own minds lit up to a potential that's incomprehensible. Psychedelics anticipate an end state in consciousness, these entheogens are to psychology what the telescope was to astronomy during Galileo's time.
IT'S A DRUG-INDUCED HALLUCINATION, HAN. By definition, you are experiencing intense perceptual stimulation due to the presence of highly reactive chemicals in your audio, visual, and cognitive receptors. There is no more "truth" to it than that. This new-age telescope crap is all nonsense. You are wasting your life on this crap because it feels good.
@AntiCitizenX Speak to anyone who's ACTUALLY TRIED THIS STUFF, and they'll tell you it's much more profound than that. Read trip reports, inform yourself about DMT, read some Strassman, Alex Grey, Terence McKenna, Graham Hancock. The fact of the matter is, you DON'T KNOW what a HALLUCINATION is. To just reject it as that is a reductionist form of reasoning. It's more like intuitively omniscient prioperception. It's an encounter with an overmind, Carl Jung's collective unconscious, and beyond.
" Speak to anyone who's ACTUALLY TRIED THIS STUFF"
I am. I am speaking to you right now.
"Read trip reports"
I have. They are not compelling.
"To just reject it as that is a reductionist form of reasoning."
Han, you are making positive claims based on a standard of evidence that has a demonstrable capacity to warp perspective beyond all objectivity. Case closed. You just want to rationalize the act of filling your brain artificial (and potentially harmful) stimulants.
@AntiCitizenX The fact that you believe they're potentially harmful reveals a naïveté, since DMT is already part of our neurochemistry. Just because it's demonstrable by means of "The God Helmet" or repetitive doses of DMT is no reduction to its intense profoundness. And, of course, I meant to take other people's accounts aside from my own, and if you want a compelling trip reports, go to "drugs-forum(dot)com" or "tenthdimension(dot)com". Preferably "tenthdimension(dot)com".
@AntiCitizenX Testosterone is not DMT. And the intense emotional arousal is not the sort that people refer to in their 'heart,' the sort that Matt Dillahunty is well-versed in denouncing, and yes I agree, religious people who have never tried psychedelics do that crap all the time. This is something more like satori, samadhi, or nirvana. I think of psychedelics as something like turbo-charged Buddhism. Here's my position in a nutshell in this audio piece here:
I like your video only when you said prayer doesn't work only pple who dont study the bible are ignorant of the knowledge of the Holy spirit. Because If you ask a man that used to be blind how can you see and what made you SEE? their answer will be who cares I can see. You can;You Can't expect to Knock in my door and suggest i let you in.. because their is no relationship accomplished. therefore anything you say i reject.prayer is founded upon the relationship with Jesus.Study Theology..U will c
I've read the Bible. Jesus himself says you can perform miracles through prayer. So put your faith where your mouth is. I defy you to cure a leper, heal an amputee, or move a mountain. All you get to do is pray about it. Or do you not have enough faith to perform such miracles?
I was almost about to dislike this video when I didn't get my rocket ship, pony, and hot babe. Obviously, a few other than me actually got so pissed off that they did dislike it.
@psilocyberspaceman or.... they problably did get a rocket ship, pony, and hot babe and realised this video obviously wasn't describing their experience.. they consequentially might actually feel sorry for 'anticitizenX' for not getting a rocket ship, pony and hot babe.. but not enough to flag it down for presenting their experience as implausible.. ;-)
"Lord, there exists no known science by which we may heal our brother ourselves and make him whole"
Umm regenerative medicines? It's still pretty new but maybe we can work up to regrow whole limbs. Unfortunately like most modern medical advancements; people will simply give the credit to god. Oh also look up "Pixie Dust"
Yo! I'm thinking the God talking to two people experiment idea doesn't work because the only way to prove God exists to yourself is to seek him with an earnest and open/loving heart. Testing his existance would force God to play on our terms which is not how he wishes to save us. The purpose of life is to initiate a relationship with God, which is built on trust and love. When my gf says she loves me I won't analyse and test to see if the love is real, it's unique to me and I feel it.
@philloves2spooge The purpose of life is to get ofspring, nothing to do with any god also god killed 2,4 million in the bible, still feel his love as something good, and those are by his hand and not from the flood or the first born
Look at it like this whats the point in arguing like this why not just let people belive in what they want ok. I mean their is people who talk to their selves for motivation.
If your trying to convert people your the same as a religious person trying to convert an athiest.. when i think about it athiest is kinda like a religion itself. But what i wanna put is this god or not what ever you belive dont everyone just want to happy.
@AntiCitizenX i would, since i'm an atheist, and therefore have no morals. at least so says many theist. but another good point of why meloinfamous1 is wrong is that the decisions of those deluded people affect everyone. if it was just some looney in a cave then such education would not be as needed. imo, the best way is to teach how to think, not advocate atheism. The more people know, the less need they should have to cling to the teat of fairytales.
@AntiCitizenX i have a question. I dont follow any religion but i dont say im an atheist. I just feel like if there is a god, well good. If i do things that i think are right not what religion tells me , shouldn't god be ok with it. whats ur opinion on this. do you think im still an Atheist or not religious?
Dude there ain't nothing wrong with arguing for your beliefs. We live in freedom and we should all be ready to stand up for what we believe in and defend it as best as you possibly can. An atheist may not be able to convert a religious person and vice versa, but what's important is to earn some respect for your point of view with intelligent argument and passion. This may inspire people to look at what you believe with some earnestness. If we don't argue we don't progress.
@meloinfamous1 I would agree completly if it wasn't for the christian political junk. The poblem I have with christianity is that too meny try to force me to be christian too. For example the ban on gay marriages, abortion, ect. Not to mention prayer in schools.
The ironic thing is the aspects they are trying to force on me are the same reson I left christianity.
The argument concerning God 'hiding' and not wanting us to come to objective knowledge of his existance is a difficult one, and I appreciate the answer I have given you may not be satisfactory. I am going to give it some investigation and prayer and get back to you, and then hopefully we can come to a somewhat satisfactory conclusion, so that we may both have a better understanding and mutual respect for one another's faith. :D
WOW, im happy you used Myles Munroe (he is bahamian and so am i) in your vid, but on the other hand he gives out the same creationist nonesense as his american counterparts...good video nonetheless :)
And also, remember that Jesus said we shouldn't test God. If I was to try and pray for something small for the purpose of trying to prove to you that I was right and win an argument, then I don't think that would fit with Jesus' teachings. He said that to get to the kingdom you must be humble like a child, and I think that this is the purpose of faith and grace. We must let go of our own ideas and logic and put our heart with God, and yes I know, that is a difficult task.
This statement has problems. Basically, you are telling me God does not want us to come to an objective knowledge of his existence, but just wants us to assume it a priori for no good reason. Yet it is a demonstrable fact that such actions can lead to genuine belief in any arbitrary idea, true or not. So surely you understand why such a deity does not feel very compelling to us atheist, yes?
@AntiCitizenX I do indeed. But the reason we cannot test God I think, is because if we were to ask him to talk or appear in a way of proving his existance, then it would mean that we are asking him to come to according to 'our plan' and not his. I believe God does in fact show himself to everyone all the time throughout our daily lives in one way or another, but that we may choose not to see.
This is a completely bullshit attempt to dodge explaning why god doesn't reveal himself, actually.
*First and Second, there is Hell. Somehow unending torture of otherwise-innocent people isn't prevented when all it takes is for God to reveal himself somehow.
*Third, assuming something "a priori" without reason...
@philloves2spooge you mean dumb as a child, not humble, children are ignorant ,so go ahead bud, believe everything and while your sittin there waitin for god to intervine try not to suffocate
Oh and yer your right the scripture is often quite straightforward, but it's wise to take a proper look at the context around each verse, and to whom it is being said and its provenance. Journalists often take stuff that celebrities have said and take the words out of context and the meaning might appear different to the original intention. If you took a random sentence out of my biochemistry text book it might not always make sense by itself.
@philloves2spooge You are right that Mark 11:23 is Jesus talking at his disciples. But you must also realize that there does not exist a single passage in the entire Bible wherein God or Jesus is directly addressing us as modern individuals. The general practice today is to interpret scriptures as if they were directed at us anyway. Anything less, and they effectively lose all relevance. So by what criteria do you conclude a passage is intended for us or not?
And also, your scientific "experiment" asking for the rocket ship etc. is flawed, because you yourself definitely don't believe it will come true. You even admit it, because you say that in science something must be proven to exist, so your initial hypothesis is that "God doesn't exist/ prayers aren't answered", whereas the Bible states you must have faith and believe it, so you're experiment can't ever work.
Yer but you clearly don't believe that it will come true. This is what I'm trying to say, is that it takes time to develop faith strong enough to understand prayer and have it "answered". And there IS scripture thst supports my aqrgument, just look at the disciples. Did they understand Jesus straight away? No, it took them 3 years and a revelation in his Resurection before they could even begin to understand Jesus, so that proves you can't just expect to have unshakable faith straight away.
Yer but you clearly don't believe that it will come true. This is what I'm trying to say, is that it takes time to develop faith strong enough to understand prayer and have it "answered". And there IS scripture thst supports my aqrgument, just look at the disciples. Did they understand Jesus straight away? No, it took them 3 years and a revelation in his Resurection before they could even begin to understand Jesus, so that proves you can't just expect to have unshakable faith straight away.
@philloves2spooge Okay, fine. My faith is lacking. But apparently yours is not. So put your faith where your mouth is and prove me wrong, Go to the nearest hospital and use prayer to heal an amputee.
And no, the words in the Bible are not difficult to understand. They say very unambiguously that prayer can be used to generate miracles.
@AntiCitizenX I think that is a pretty reasonable request, but although I feel I am close to God and have lots of faith in him, I don't think I have faith strong enough to perform miracles such as healing amputees, and I would argue that I don't think anyone alive has faith THAT strong. I believe the only people who did were the disciples because they were so close to Jesus their faith was truly unshakable. Wish I could but my mind would keep saying "this is impossible", I'm not perfect.
@philloves2spooge Wow, that was one of the most honest responses I've ever heard from the theistic camp. I guess I can throttle back the sarcasm now and be more serious.
If healing an amputee is a tall order, then why don't we scale back the request? I'm not asking for much. All I ask is that you produce something physically tangible and rationally compelling. Say, for example, the audible voice of God in both a skeptic and believer at the same time in the same room. Is that so hard?
@AntiCitizenX Kl cheers! Hmm thats actually a very kool idea, I think if that was tried and say an atheist/agnostic etc. believing person was taken to a good church, and a Christian and the atheist went into a room and prayed together, and the atheist was genuinely open minded and willing to hear God, I think with patience and time, then he would hear God in some way. However, it is possible of course the atheist would not want to hear God, or would explain any voice/feeling with psychology.
@philloves2spooge You are correct that psychology is an important problem with hearing God. I would even suggest you watch my "psychology of belief" series for greater details. That's why I said "both the believer and the skeptic" need to hear the same audible voice at the same time. Otherwise, you are basically telling me that God likes to hide himself in events that have naturalistic causes. But if truth matters, we have no choice but to reject such evidence.
Ur argument is flawed firstly beacause you are reducing prayers to simply being a request for God to do something for you. Prayer is about getting to know God and developing your relationship with Him. Arguably we should be constantly in prayer with Jesus by living a life for Him and thinking about him. As you progress through being a Christian your relationship and understanding with God develops. Prayer is becoming intimate with God, not making Him your bitch.
@philloves2spooge: Mark 11:23-24 specifically says that if you ask God with faith, then God will do things for you. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that prayer is some conditional thing that fails to produce tangible results. You cannot just insert your own made-up interpretation of the scriptures when the literal words themselves fail to manifest in reality.
@AntiCitizenX : I'd be glad to support myself if I thought it would do any good. There is plenty of evidence, if you would only stop denying it. But seeing as how you have no interest in finding God, and your only goal is seeking a justification to live how you want to live, I know that you would not accept anything I had to say. I could give you God's phone number, and you would not believe. God does not need us to defend Him. He supports and defends Himself in His own time.
I think you underestimate me. Finding God is a matter of the utmost importance. Surely you must realize that my immortal soul is at stake in this endeavor. If I am wrong, then I have just doomed myself to an eternity of torment. I therefore have to be absolutely certain about my conclusions and base them only on the strictest standards of knowledge and evidence. So if you have evidence to share, then by all means do not keep it to yourself if you truly care so much.
@AntiCitizenX : If you were truly seeking God, I know you would have found Him by now, because the Bible says that the evidence is plain to everyone. But I shall enlighten you. First, there is the Bible. Second, scientists have discovered that each cell of the body contains thousands of microscopic machines. Third, near-death experiences. Fourth, miraculous things happen all the time. If I had the space in this box, I would tell you a couple of stories about miracles that would blow your mind.
Thank you for the polite discussion, and I shall do my best to provide you the same courtesy.
To begin, let's examine the Bible. On what basis does the Bible count as evidence for God? On the same note, do you also accept that the Book of Mormon, the Qur'an, the Avestra, or the Bhagavad Gita count as evidence for the same God? If not, on what basis do you reject these texts?
@AntiCitizenX : I was raised Mormon, and I do NOT accept the Book of Mormon as the Word of God. Not that this has anything to do with anything that we are discussing, but I believe Mormonism to be a EXTREMELY screwed up religion. Anyway, the Bible counts as evidence for God because it is the Word of God, written by eye-witnesses. I've never read the Qur'an or any of those other things you mentioned. I do know, though, that the Qur'an is a book on the false god Allah.
"Anyway, the Bible counts as evidence for God because it is the Word of God, written by eye-witnesses."
This is exactly the same claim made about the Book of Mormon, which is allegedly written by inspired prophets of God. It is also the same for the Qur'an, revealed to Muhammed by an angel of God and then dictated into writing. So on what basis is the Bible true but these others are not?
@AntiCitizenX : I don't want to get into my feelings about Mormonism and the reasons I feel the way I feel, so I'll just leave it at that I simply don't believe it. As for the Qur'an and Muhammed and Allah and all of that, I find that there's more evidence of God than of Allah.
On a related note, I would also like to pose a side-bar question to you.
Given that you reject the Qur'an and the Book of Mormon, you must accept that millions upon millions of people can be led into a firm conviction about a concept of God that is dead wrong. So in light of the fact that getting things wrong is an apparently easy thing for people to do, what efforts have you gone through to ensure the correctness of your convictions over theirs?
I understand you have had experiences. I have had them too. But you must also realize that on some fundamental level, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, and Evangelicals have all gone through similar experiences. I would contend that there is nothing you can share with me that other groups cannot replicate on some fundamental level. So again, what makes you so sure that you are correct, while the others are wrong? Why are you special?
@AntiCitizenX : I am not special. I believe in the Bible, it's as simple as that. My evidence is in the Bible. I know that isn't going to fly with you, but that's the way it is.
Summer, surely on some level you must realize a fundamental problem with what you are telling me. We began this conversation under the pretense that you had something compelling to offer me of a spiritual nature. Yet all you've really said so far is "the Bible says so." You know perfectly well that Mormons say the exact same thing about the BoM, so why do you insult yourself by pretending that it's okay to do it with the Bible? You are smarter than that.
@AntiCitizenX : As far as I'm aware, Islam is based purely on the Qur'an. Allah never came to Earth, so you can't go to the place he was born, or trace back the line of whoever he was born to. There is no physical evidence of Allah, it's purely the book. Christians have the book, but we also have physical evidence. As for Mormonism and the Book of Mormon, the Bible says to not go beyond what is written. So that pretty much blows the Book of Mormon out of the water. In my mind, anyway.
So you admit that physical evidence is the determining factor when framing one's beliefs, yes? Therefore, the words in the Bible are also meaningless without physical evidence to back them up. Do you agree with me on this point? Because if so, I must ask you the next obvious question. Namely, what physical evidence can you (or anyone for that matter) provide that demonstrates the veracity of spiritual claims made in the Bible?
I am going to assume that you can cite specific evidences for spiritual claims in the Bible. I am also going to give specific reasons why I doubt the Bible. For example, the Gospel of Mathew is known to have been written decades after the events being described, and contains many inconsistencies with the other Gospels. It is also nothing more than an eye-witness account during an age of rampant superstition. Why should I be compelled by this?
Believing that prayer has any effect on reality is no different from believing that rain dances control the weather.
As any rational person can acknowledge, both are pointless rituals.
Unfortunately some people simply have trouble breaking free of the comforting delusion that their imaginary friend will change reality because they asked nicely.
Anything humanity wants done, we have to do ourselves. If we relied on prayer, we'd still be in the stone age.
I only fail at being able to give you the answer that you want to hear. There are many things in the bible that i can't explain, but that doesn't prevent me from searching or believing. I don't understand how my dog knows when something tragic is about to happen, and my knowledge is greater than my dogs. Just like Gods knowledge is greater than ours. I applaud you for asking a tough question, and i hope in searching for your answer that you will acknowledge Christ along the way.
drivemewilder, i was once a believer in much the same sense you are, i looked at everything as gods will, i looked at everything as having a point and having gods sympathies and that the bible was the true word of god.
then my best friend, of christian faith as well, committed suicide.
afterwards, i began to delve into the deep, intricate, incredible world of science and art, and never looked back. i hope you have the same realization one day
I'm sorry for your loss, and i'm sorry for your lack of faith. So how did the suicide influence you into the world of science? I work for NASA where everything is about science. And i can assure you that the more people truly study science and are opened up to science not otherwise available to the public...the more of those people that realize that their is a God.
Your friend committed suicide..don't make the same mistake. That in essence what you are doing when you turn your back on God.
Hmmm, i'm seeing a trend. You don't believe i work for NASA, yet you don't even know me. You need proof i work for NASA, and have no faith. It's no surprise you don't believe in God.
The Hubble can be found with a simple search from Google. I need not prove anything to you. Search it yourself and discover the truth. I can tell you but you'd continue to doubt.
im no longer going to respond to you because it would only result in a long, long, long discussion. go ahead and think you got to me and remain happy in your own little world. i didnt even take Google into consideration though lol. its no surprise that you would work for NASA and still beleive in god, just as much that it wouldnt be a suprise for someone to work for NASA and not believe in god, i apologize for my ignorance on this situation.
Our rules and Gods rules are different, but when his rules don't fit into our logic or understanding, we accuse him. God can do anything, anything. The question at hand is regrowing a limb. Sacrificing a sheep, to save an entire herd is Gods philosophy. A limb lost sux, i don't doubt that for a second. But i would lay my life down to protect my family...and so would you. We don't see the whole picture, i have no idea what good comes out of a lost limb....but i know someone that does know!
Think about what I am asking you for one moment. The issue here is Mark 11:24. If those words are correct and true, then you should be able to demonstrate them. I choose the amputee bit because there is no historical precedent for any human limb to ever regrow on its own. Such an event would be a genuine miracle if it happened. So put your money where your faith is. Demonstrate me a miracle on demand, or admit that Mark 11:24 is wrong.
Each time you open you're mouth, you reveal how incredibly stupid you are and everyone that follows you. You don't believe...fine. You choose to believe that the entire universe and everything in it, is here by chance...rather than by God, fine. You are entitled to believe or not believe in whatever suits you and your needs. But when your whopping 40, 50, maybe 100 years on earth are over...and ETERNITY begins...we will have no sympathy for your lack of faith, and subsequant punishment.
Of course I do not believe. The words in the Bible are DEMONSTRABLY WRONG! Would you believe the Mormons if they knocked at your door this very afternoon and said the exact same words? No, of course you would not. So again, DO NOT INSULT US by thinking we should believe you and not them.
I challenge you to read Mark 11:24 and perform an actual demonstration of that verse by healing an amputee. If you are so sure, then PROVE ME WRONG! Put your faith where your mouth is.
It seems that the only thing that keeps you from believing, is lack of faith. You are hung up on finding proof, in particular the regrowth of a limb. The regrowth of a limb is physically impossible. It's like asking God to make a round square. It breaks the rules which HE created, just like asking us to love him....but not mess with free will. Those are HIS rules. Instead, God uses the missing limb to reach other people. A limb lost in war, could serve as a poster to end war...which was worth it
That was the sorriest rationalization I've ever heard. You would never tolerate such pathetic nonsense if, say, a Mormon missionary said these exact same words to yourself. So please, do not insult us by supposing we should take it any more seriously. If you cannot demonstrate your God, then you do not "know" anything about him, and it is shamefully dishonest of you to pretend that you do.
Your god broke "the rules" when two different people raised the dead. Jesus and Elijah. Broke the rules to allow to survive in the stomach of a fish for 3 days. And broke the rules of aerodynamics with flying chariots. Is your bible wrong?
Which is it... either your god can't break the rules, as you say. Or can break the rules as the bible says. Decide which of you is wrong.
You must be an amputee with all this talk. If God did regrow a limb...you would simply theorize that the limb was never gone or that the doctor was responsible, or something similar. Through the ability to Clone...being able to regrow a limb could be entirely possible. Yet you will give scientiest and doctors the credit, instead of God the credit for making us knowledgable to be able to do so. Thus the saying "no proof is possible."
Let me make this abundantly clear so there is no misunderstanding: There exists NO PHYSICAL MECHANISM by which humans can naturally regrow limbs. If you were to begin with a single amputee and provide NO medical treatment beyond simply praying, I would convert to your faith if the limb grew back on its own within a reasonable time frame, AND you could reproduce this effect on demand. Anything less, and the Bible is demonstrably wrong.
You prayed on this video? Dont think so. You didnt believe and you were not sincere. Plus you really didnt want a pony did you? Come on, you can confess. All I can say is that I enjoy your silliness. When it comes to believing in God, for those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. In other words, there is nothing that will provide proof to you. Keep the funny videos coming. I did get a good laugh. Your delivery is really good.
[When it comes to believing in God, for those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.]
I beg to differ. I could very easily be swayed by all kinds of proof. Go find the holiest saints on Earth and let's see them heal an amputee through prayer. Do this, and I will convert. Otherwise, the words in the Bible are demonstrably wrong.
Would you believe that someone had a stroke from a 100% blocked carotid artery in their neck and witnessed by 3 doctors. This person suffered horrible headaches from this blockage. He just asked God to show him what to do one night. It felt like warm water was poured on him. A week later, tests showed the blockage in the neck was gone. Even an arteriogram showed he has blood vessels like a teenager and he was 50 years old. And also, headaches went away and hasnt had one since. What do you think?
The problem with this story is that stuff like this happens all the time. Cancers go into remission, doctors make bad diagnoses, arteries self-clean, and bodies heal. None of it requires God. The only thing that does NOT seem to happen is regrowth of a limb. So demonstrate to me an actual prayer that regrows a limb, and you have something compelling.
Well some people do pray for things like that. I would think that something would be wrong with that as it is a selfish thing to do, but in the Bible Jesus says that you get WHATEVER you wish to have.
"For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."
Of course proof is possible. You claim you must be sincere in order for a prayer to come true? Fine. Heal an amputee. Come on... you can do it. Prayer has the power. Right? You believe, and are sincere. So pray for an amputee to be healed. Don't you think they deserve it to?
"What is it about prayer that makes people believe so strongly?"
People may use logical fallacies to justify why they continue to pray, but the initial draw to it is mainly emotional, and a bit of an appeal to the imagination. Face it, if you were sky diving and your chute didn't open, you'd pray too.
Skepticism has a strong intellectual appeal. But for most people it doesn't compete with an emotional or imaginative appeal. Even though they really can't, many people still want to believe.
You can't even read the entire verse, little lone look at the entire Bible comprehensively. Every verse you mention is only part of 1 verse, part of 1 story. John 8:14....why do u stop there? You need to put it into context, by knowing the situation and the whole story not just what you want to know. Start reading in verse 12 and continue PAST 14 through 30. If you pick and choose what verses, and what part of the verse to share....then it is not me backpedaling.
Matthew 11? Or Mark 11? Perhaps...just maybe....you are reading and interpreting the Bible much like you just confused Matthew, with Mark. That's not a shot a you, rather a good example of we as humans making the simplest of mistakes, yet question an All-knowing God....the creator of the Heavens and the Universe.
Valid argument! Unfortunately, you are putting all your stock in one verse and in one argument. The entire Bible must be looked at comprehensively in order to accurately draw a conclusion on any one argument, such as...is prayer effective. One must understand HOW prayer is answered. You must examine the Bible as a whole to determine how to pray and how prayers are answered, again Gods wisdom exceeds ours and his answer far exceeds our own rational.
How exactly do you look at verses like Mathew 11, 23-24 and make this claim? Where else in the Bible is prayer addressed in such as way as to clarify this statement beyond the obvious meaning of the words? The words in the Bible are very matter-of-fact when it comes to prayer here. I fail to see how the Bible attaches any caveats like you say it does.
Expecting a certain outcome, is limiting an infinate God. Therefore we are expecting God to conform to our ways and rules. I don't believe i've added scripture, only tried to explain it. I take the literal meanings in the Bible, literal...and the figurative meanings, figuratively. If i told you "i flew my corvette down the highway this afternoon." You would interpret that to mean, i drove my Vette really fast. It's meant as an added emphasis.
[Expecting a certain outcome, is limiting an infinite God]
I did not impose the limit. It is a literal description of God's behavior according to the Bible. If you want to pretend it is only a figurative expression, then that is fine. But now you must face the problem of uncertainty, which leads us to an entirely new question:
By what standard to you judge the "correctness" of any given interpretation? That is, how do you "know" your interpretation is true and correct?
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with what you say, except that you are drifting further away from the idea that the Bible is the "inerrant word of God." When you have to interpret the Bible and fill in the blanks, you are conceding that the Bible cannot stand alone on its own merit. If you have to interpret the Bible, there is no way of knowing if your interpretation is correct without first subjecting it to some kind of battery of tests.
So in the end, you HAVE to test the Bible somehow if you want to rest assured in your interpretations. However, testing is exactly what you say we cannot do. Yet without some way to scrutinize the various interpretations for validity, the truth is no better than a wild guess.
So by not getting what you ask for, when you ask for it...you're against God and question his ability, or even existance? By conforming to OUR ways and rules, God becomes nothing more than a substitute teacher that we can walk all over. Christianity is about faith...how is faith established if we are his robots, or if we demand to have it our way? Faith is trusting that God will provide for us in ways beyond our imagination, not a sports car that may kill us next week. Would you prefer the car?
They are not my rules, they are God's rules. The Bible is very clear when it says that God will grant us things as long as we pray for them and believe. Period. There are no conditions or caveats attached to this proposition. All this other stuff you say is NOT IN THE BIBLE. You are adding to scripture what isn't there; which is fine as long as you acknowledge that the words of the Bible cannot be taken literally.
Your definition of "heal" and Gods definition, are surely not the same. Thank God we have the ability to save a persons life, at the minor expense of a limb. God can/does see the long term plan, not the immediate future, and will use an amputee to tell a story and reach other people...that only an amputee can tell. God created the universe and everything in it...including you, the mountain, and even the internet. You don't still think Al Gore is responsible for that do you? A human finger, easy!
This is not what the Bible says. The Bible is very clear that you will receive what you ask for, just as long as you have faith. The argument you are making is not congruent with the words of scripture.
Agreed! The Bible does say he will...but be sure to read the entire scripture. He says you must believe that you will recieve them. If you don't believe, but try it anyways....you are simply testing the waters and seeing what will happen. God doesn't want you to give part of yourself to him, or to trust him on certain conditions. He wants you to trust and believe in him with all your heart. Sometimes asking for A, but getting B instead....comes full circle and you get A, just not how u imagined.
Then by all means, get yourself some faithful believers and heal an amputee. The Bible promises you can move mountains, so surely the regrowth of a single human finger should be a piece of cake.
Good question! It's about a relationship. Your wife, kids, and mother knows that you love them. But saying it and having a relationship creates a deeper love, respect, and understanding. Why would God give you any/everything you ask for, when we ourselves don't know what we want the majority of the time. We certainly don't know what's best for us.
Hmmm, what a completely flawed assessment of God. Everything you compare, is within your own capabilities, measured by your own standards and on an intelligent level according to human. God is much bigger than that. What you were missing, was the word "sincere." Otherwise you are testing and evaluating God and what he can do. A silly game by even human standards, one God will not play. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, u feed him for life.
Very good videos. The patient and kind tone you use in your videos is also very helpful. I think people are more likely to listen to the facts if you don't scream them at them.
You actually felt my tone of voice was patient and kind? Most people tell me the exact opposite. Then again, most folks tend to interpret any argument against faith as "arrogant and hate-filled." In reality, I was just trying to be "dry and academic" with just a hint of sarcasm.
I love the question of prayer. Prayer only works on diseases with a chance to go into remission... How useful is prayer if it only works on things which already have a chance to go away if you wait long enough?
i pray that church and state become separate again and that money gets to scientist that need it for dope medical research that could one day grow me a lung cause i smoke (and home skillet some new legs and everyone really cause um nice)...and gods a non exsistant dick
It should be pointed out that when someone prays and believes, they hold a psychological state which can have a strong effect on the rest of the body. You don't even need to pray to achieve this. When you wake up, decide it's a good day, smile, and be happy about everything positive, and tell yourself everything negative is unimportant.
About healing amputees: Leviticus 21(16-23) clearly details how God hates handicapped, mis-shapen and ugly people. There isn't really a diversity program in christianity. I don't think gays do too well in there either. Still, heaven's the ultimate gated community, so I guess they can have who the hell they want in there!
I'm guessing ex-mo. Though Mormonism certainly has a disproportionate number of absurdities, it seems you have a lot more knowledge about it too. Am I right?
AronRa and TFoot are my two biggest inspirations, so I can't help but channel their essences a little. I do try to add my own twist to things, but the whole talking-slide-show format is hard to turn into something truly unique. I'm always open to suggestions, however.
I just noticed a similar style, but it is a very effective style, and you do it well.
I do like the breaking down of the LDS leaders talks. If any group of men deserve to have their teachings examined, it is those who claim to be the sole voice of God. I would love to see you break apart Packer's October 2008 talk, where he just plain lied about history, like you did Oaks.
I've been following a chain of video channels on Youtube: James Randi > Arona > Thunderfoot > BionicDance > The Atheist Experience > Pat Condell > now AntiCitizenX.
Keep up the good work to aiming our civilization to a clear thinking and reasoning species.
Clearly, a correct reading of the bible confirms that the only unselfish, morally-correct prayer is to pray that all prayers except your own are answered. ...oops... Now we know why prayer works; but doesn't work, because it works..because.....
157626 1 month ago
False prophets...gotta love em
1nemindgypsy 2 months ago
I think you are bias. I ask a priest about the lost prayers and he said it is because we need to eat a banana before we pray. You did not eat a banana before praying which is why your prayer did not come true. My priest also mentioned that donating to a church $120 dollars will increase your chances by almost 20%
BigKittyVideos 7 months ago
" So if we're all equally biased, and most everything we want to believe is inaccurate, uncertain or just wrong "; wouldn't that mean, If I believe in prayer, that my belief in prayer could be just as wrong and biased as your unbelief in it? I mean, we are all human.
bravelion2009 7 months ago
@bravelion2009
We're not flipping coins here, guy. There is more to belief/knowledge than just picking random crap that feels good. The point is that you have to utilize empirical evidence based on scientific methods. We are justified in rejecting the power of prayer because there is ample evidence against it and no evidence for it. "Evidence" is not a bias.
AntiCitizenX 7 months ago
But here is the thing. Prayer is not a science, nor is it a natural science or earth science. It is not something you stick under a microscope or run tests on using a scientific method. It is supernatural, and being supernatural how can the supernatural be made and tested by the natural using mere natural methods, scientific or not? It can't. It is a fellowship/relationship with your heavenly Father. The natural representation of that being your relationship with your earthly/biological father.
bravelion2009 7 months ago
@bravelion2009
"It is not something you stick under a microscope or run tests on using a scientific method"
Sure it is. Why wouldn't it be? People have even done this already.
"how can the supernatural be made and tested by the natural?"
Because otherwise there is no distinction between a real, supernatural phenomenon versus some idiotic crap you just made up out of nothing and merely believe because it makes you feel good. You can't have your supernatural cake and eat it, too.
AntiCitizenX 7 months ago
@bravelion2009 Can you prove that the supernatural even exists? Let me answer this for you; NO! You CANNOT prove that the supernatural exists, so stfu about it! You felt some weird shit, and wrongfully assumed that you were being possessed by a spirit or God himself. But, once again, prayer is just talking to yourself, without ANY shred of evidence to support it.
outlaw87100 4 months ago
I'm sure we've asked our dads for things we wanted as kids. Did he give it to us? No, for me more not than yes. Did I know why all the time? No, but my father had his reasons for not giving me everything I wanted and he withheld out of my best interest. So it is with God. He has his own plan, can I know His mind or reasons? No. Prayer's purpose is not a Santa Clause wish list checked at Christmas to see if he got you everything and if not then he doesn't exist. It can't be treated as such.
bravelion2009 7 months ago
@bravelion2009 The thing I don't understand about prayer is that people pray for things - yet accept that they do not get what they want because God has a plan. If so, why do people ask God to change his plan? Why not accept that the plan is the plan and that's that? If you are supposed to get it, you will get it. If you are not then you won't! Is it not much more likely that there is no pattern to the prayers getting answered because there is no-one to answer them and s**t just happens!
TheFish333333 7 months ago
@bravelion2009
"It can't be treated as such."
Jesus himself disagrees with you. Or have you not read the Bible?
Look Brave, the issue here is your ability to validate your claims. You are categorically stating as FACT, who God is, what God is, what God does, for whom, and under what conditions. Yet you have nothing to back this up except for the warm fuzzies it makes you feel. You are certainly free to continue believing, but don't be surprised when the rest of us call it "fraud."
AntiCitizenX 7 months ago
I have read the Bible. In what sense would Jesus disagree with me in that prayer is not part of the physical realm of science to be disected and tested? Remember when Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness for forty days and satan told him if He was the Son of God to command this stone to become bread? Satan wanted to test Jesus power, to see if he really was the Son of God. How did He reply, "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."
bravelion2009 7 months ago
@bravelion2009
Read Mark, 11:23-24. Anything you ask shall be given to you through prayer, if only you believe. Period. There are no caveats to this statement. Either Jesus is telling the truth, or he is full of crap.
AntiCitizenX 7 months ago
@bravelion2009
"You shall not put the Lord your God to the test."
This statement is nothing more than a dubious tool for ducking the burden of proof. The whole point of that pesky "testing" is to differentiate between things that are real versus things that you conjured out of your own imagination. The Bible is basically telling you that you must be a gullible fool in order to exercise proper faith. I will have no part of it, and you would be wise to do follow suit.
AntiCitizenX 7 months ago
@bravelion2009
Finally, I challenge you to consider something: If a man was trying to sell you a used car and he told you it gets 80 miles per gallon, would you believe him? What if he also told you that it gets 80 mpg ONLY AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE IT DOES. Or maybe he tells you that it won't work if you should ever attempt to calculate your mileage at the pump. In any non-religious context you would call this fraud, so please don't insult yourself by acting like this is compelling.
AntiCitizenX 7 months ago
@bravelion2009 This statement you made here just makes Anti's point. This is confirmation bias, you are protecting your belief by changing the original theory slightly so it doesnt fail
Theory: Prayer works
Evidence: Most of the time nothing happens
New Theory: Prayer works, but only mysteriously, not all the time, and only on some requests, and not measurably by any study.
kittyloaf 6 months ago
nor was it ever intended to be treated as thus.
bravelion2009 7 months ago
I prayed for a bully at school to get what he deserved. The next day he was chewed out by the dean for molesting another student. I got what I prayed for.
One problem: I am an atheist who prayed only as a joke!
MunkyDrag0n 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Anticitizenx what do you think of my argument against prayer on my blog?
Just curious of your opinion!
exchristianboy dot blogspot dot com
AaronHubler 10 months ago
AntiCitizenX, you say pompous things in your videos like, "So, this'll debunk all notion of Gods in every religion in one fell swoop." You have to realize that religion is a word that has contaminated our perspective. Christianity is nothing like Hinduism, although both are referred to as "religion." This word allows someone to assume that both are somewhat alike, when they're completely different. I challenge you to debunk a Hindu's notion of prayer:
watch?v=5s_k4CSf-Cs
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
It is not my job to debunk that which has failed to be remotely substantiated in the first place. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Did you even watch the video?
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
Yes. An old dude talks out of his ass for three minutes. If this is what I can expect from your standard of evidence, then I'm not interested. I don't think you understand what constitutes justifiable knowledge.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX You probably just clicked the video, then exited. You didn't even take into consideration his ideas, which echoed the perspective of Hinduism. Your only account of what he said was, "Some old guy talking out of his ass." I understand what justifiable knowledge is, I somehow doubt that you understand.
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
IT IS CALLED "EVIDENCE" HAN! Do you know what that means? I need more than some old moron babbling on about mystical mumbo jumbo. DEMONSTRATE TO ME that your ideas are more than a bunch of crap you just made up out of nothing.
And no, psychedelic hallucinations do not count.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Are you by any chance familiar with concepts like 'comsic consciousness' or 'Gaian mind'? My point is that the mystical experience is the evidence, and that person you referred to as "some old dude" is echoing the insights of Hinduism. Did you even intuitively grasp the concepts he was expounding? Have you ever been to Michael Hoffman's website 'EgoDeath(dot)com'? I doubt it. If you want to be a more efficient atheist, you should at the very least, listen to Alan Watts.
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
" the mystical experience is the evidence"
That is why I can reject it out of hand. Your standard of evidence possesses a demonstrable capacity for getting people to believe in whatever arbitrary hokum that makes them comfortable. So although I appreciate the sincere effort you are making, you have to understand that subjective convictions don't amount to a hill of beans in an honest search for truth.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX If I offered you 70mg of DMT, would you accept?
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
No.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Well, then you'll continue to circumambulate the very ground and root of religion until you acknowledge this psychedelic dimension. You said yourself that you don't doubt it's an intense experience, well it is. It's so profound, that people have called it God. It may just be our own minds lit up to a potential that's incomprehensible. Psychedelics anticipate an end state in consciousness, these entheogens are to psychology what the telescope was to astronomy during Galileo's time.
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
IT'S A DRUG-INDUCED HALLUCINATION, HAN. By definition, you are experiencing intense perceptual stimulation due to the presence of highly reactive chemicals in your audio, visual, and cognitive receptors. There is no more "truth" to it than that. This new-age telescope crap is all nonsense. You are wasting your life on this crap because it feels good.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Speak to anyone who's ACTUALLY TRIED THIS STUFF, and they'll tell you it's much more profound than that. Read trip reports, inform yourself about DMT, read some Strassman, Alex Grey, Terence McKenna, Graham Hancock. The fact of the matter is, you DON'T KNOW what a HALLUCINATION is. To just reject it as that is a reductionist form of reasoning. It's more like intuitively omniscient prioperception. It's an encounter with an overmind, Carl Jung's collective unconscious, and beyond.
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
" Speak to anyone who's ACTUALLY TRIED THIS STUFF"
I am. I am speaking to you right now.
"Read trip reports"
I have. They are not compelling.
"To just reject it as that is a reductionist form of reasoning."
Han, you are making positive claims based on a standard of evidence that has a demonstrable capacity to warp perspective beyond all objectivity. Case closed. You just want to rationalize the act of filling your brain artificial (and potentially harmful) stimulants.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX The fact that you believe they're potentially harmful reveals a naïveté, since DMT is already part of our neurochemistry. Just because it's demonstrable by means of "The God Helmet" or repetitive doses of DMT is no reduction to its intense profoundness. And, of course, I meant to take other people's accounts aside from my own, and if you want a compelling trip reports, go to "drugs-forum(dot)com" or "tenthdimension(dot)com". Preferably "tenthdimension(dot)com".
Hanahleia 10 months ago
@Hanahleia
"DMT is already part of our neurochemistry"
So is testosterone. It is still harmful to artificially administer without extreme caution.
"Just because it's demonstrable is no reduction to its intense profoundness."
Profoundness does not equal positively indicative evidence for truth.
"if you want a compelling trip reports..."
Intense emotional/psychedelic arousal is not positively indicative evidence! Religions pull this crap this all the time.
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Testosterone is not DMT. And the intense emotional arousal is not the sort that people refer to in their 'heart,' the sort that Matt Dillahunty is well-versed in denouncing, and yes I agree, religious people who have never tried psychedelics do that crap all the time. This is something more like satori, samadhi, or nirvana. I think of psychedelics as something like turbo-charged Buddhism. Here's my position in a nutshell in this audio piece here:
watch?v=zbWL3Ngrchw
Hanahleia 10 months ago
I like your video only when you said prayer doesn't work only pple who dont study the bible are ignorant of the knowledge of the Holy spirit. Because If you ask a man that used to be blind how can you see and what made you SEE? their answer will be who cares I can see. You can;You Can't expect to Knock in my door and suggest i let you in.. because their is no relationship accomplished. therefore anything you say i reject.prayer is founded upon the relationship with Jesus.Study Theology..U will c
misken101 10 months ago
@misken101
I've read the Bible. Jesus himself says you can perform miracles through prayer. So put your faith where your mouth is. I defy you to cure a leper, heal an amputee, or move a mountain. All you get to do is pray about it. Or do you not have enough faith to perform such miracles?
AntiCitizenX 10 months ago
I agree with you 99%, 1%(Bigfoot is real.)
TheArchon1 11 months ago
I pray to George Carlin.
Requiemxtoxinnocence 1 year ago
@Requiemxtoxinnocence I prey to Joe Pesci :D
CrazyWoWGamer 1 year ago
6 people got a new pony.
jazzx251 1 year ago
I Am Very Offended Bigfoot is real.
warrior152 1 year ago
IF prayer works what about all the kids world wide that pray for food and stave to death?
theabomation 1 year ago
I was almost about to dislike this video when I didn't get my rocket ship, pony, and hot babe. Obviously, a few other than me actually got so pissed off that they did dislike it.
psilocyberspaceman 1 year ago 3
@psilocyberspaceman or.... they problably did get a rocket ship, pony, and hot babe and realised this video obviously wasn't describing their experience.. they consequentially might actually feel sorry for 'anticitizenX' for not getting a rocket ship, pony and hot babe.. but not enough to flag it down for presenting their experience as implausible.. ;-)
TICETOCAR 9 months ago
i really wanted a rocket ship :( and a hot babe with it...
If there is a god he sure does sucks at his job !
7SuperNova 1 year ago
"Lord, there exists no known science by which we may heal our brother ourselves and make him whole"
Umm regenerative medicines? It's still pretty new but maybe we can work up to regrow whole limbs. Unfortunately like most modern medical advancements; people will simply give the credit to god. Oh also look up "Pixie Dust"
DearestyouXII 1 year ago
Yo! I'm thinking the God talking to two people experiment idea doesn't work because the only way to prove God exists to yourself is to seek him with an earnest and open/loving heart. Testing his existance would force God to play on our terms which is not how he wishes to save us. The purpose of life is to initiate a relationship with God, which is built on trust and love. When my gf says she loves me I won't analyse and test to see if the love is real, it's unique to me and I feel it.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge The purpose of life is to get ofspring, nothing to do with any god also god killed 2,4 million in the bible, still feel his love as something good, and those are by his hand and not from the flood or the first born
bjam89 1 year ago
Look at it like this whats the point in arguing like this why not just let people belive in what they want ok. I mean their is people who talk to their selves for motivation.
If your trying to convert people your the same as a religious person trying to convert an athiest.. when i think about it athiest is kinda like a religion itself. But what i wanna put is this god or not what ever you belive dont everyone just want to happy.
meloinfamous1 1 year ago
@meloinfamous1
If a con artist came to your mom's door and sold her a bridge, you would sit idly by while he took advantage of her and scammed her out of her money?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago 18
@AntiCitizenX i would, since i'm an atheist, and therefore have no morals. at least so says many theist. but another good point of why meloinfamous1 is wrong is that the decisions of those deluded people affect everyone. if it was just some looney in a cave then such education would not be as needed. imo, the best way is to teach how to think, not advocate atheism. The more people know, the less need they should have to cling to the teat of fairytales.
mistereveready 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX i have a question. I dont follow any religion but i dont say im an atheist. I just feel like if there is a god, well good. If i do things that i think are right not what religion tells me , shouldn't god be ok with it. whats ur opinion on this. do you think im still an Atheist or not religious?
SidneyCrosberry 1 year ago
@meloinfamous1
Dude there ain't nothing wrong with arguing for your beliefs. We live in freedom and we should all be ready to stand up for what we believe in and defend it as best as you possibly can. An atheist may not be able to convert a religious person and vice versa, but what's important is to earn some respect for your point of view with intelligent argument and passion. This may inspire people to look at what you believe with some earnestness. If we don't argue we don't progress.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@meloinfamous1 I would agree completly if it wasn't for the christian political junk. The poblem I have with christianity is that too meny try to force me to be christian too. For example the ban on gay marriages, abortion, ect. Not to mention prayer in schools.
The ironic thing is the aspects they are trying to force on me are the same reson I left christianity.
DragonGreenFire 1 year ago
The argument concerning God 'hiding' and not wanting us to come to objective knowledge of his existance is a difficult one, and I appreciate the answer I have given you may not be satisfactory. I am going to give it some investigation and prayer and get back to you, and then hopefully we can come to a somewhat satisfactory conclusion, so that we may both have a better understanding and mutual respect for one another's faith. :D
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
WOW, im happy you used Myles Munroe (he is bahamian and so am i) in your vid, but on the other hand he gives out the same creationist nonesense as his american counterparts...good video nonetheless :)
Hadel022 1 year ago
And also, remember that Jesus said we shouldn't test God. If I was to try and pray for something small for the purpose of trying to prove to you that I was right and win an argument, then I don't think that would fit with Jesus' teachings. He said that to get to the kingdom you must be humble like a child, and I think that this is the purpose of faith and grace. We must let go of our own ideas and logic and put our heart with God, and yes I know, that is a difficult task.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge "Jesus said we shouldn't test God."
This statement has problems. Basically, you are telling me God does not want us to come to an objective knowledge of his existence, but just wants us to assume it a priori for no good reason. Yet it is a demonstrable fact that such actions can lead to genuine belief in any arbitrary idea, true or not. So surely you understand why such a deity does not feel very compelling to us atheist, yes?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX I do indeed. But the reason we cannot test God I think, is because if we were to ask him to talk or appear in a way of proving his existance, then it would mean that we are asking him to come to according to 'our plan' and not his. I believe God does in fact show himself to everyone all the time throughout our daily lives in one way or another, but that we may choose not to see.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge
This is a completely bullshit attempt to dodge explaning why god doesn't reveal himself, actually.
*First and Second, there is Hell. Somehow unending torture of otherwise-innocent people isn't prevented when all it takes is for God to reveal himself somehow.
*Third, assuming something "a priori" without reason...
*Fourth, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
*Fifth, why would God be afraid of being tested? Or is he not as great as he is made out to be?
onijester56 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX Well said!! Exactly how i would answer those christians
JI394 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge you mean dumb as a child, not humble, children are ignorant ,so go ahead bud, believe everything and while your sittin there waitin for god to intervine try not to suffocate
JWshark2012 1 year ago
Oh and yer your right the scripture is often quite straightforward, but it's wise to take a proper look at the context around each verse, and to whom it is being said and its provenance. Journalists often take stuff that celebrities have said and take the words out of context and the meaning might appear different to the original intention. If you took a random sentence out of my biochemistry text book it might not always make sense by itself.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge You are right that Mark 11:23 is Jesus talking at his disciples. But you must also realize that there does not exist a single passage in the entire Bible wherein God or Jesus is directly addressing us as modern individuals. The general practice today is to interpret scriptures as if they were directed at us anyway. Anything less, and they effectively lose all relevance. So by what criteria do you conclude a passage is intended for us or not?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
And also, your scientific "experiment" asking for the rocket ship etc. is flawed, because you yourself definitely don't believe it will come true. You even admit it, because you say that in science something must be proven to exist, so your initial hypothesis is that "God doesn't exist/ prayers aren't answered", whereas the Bible states you must have faith and believe it, so you're experiment can't ever work.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yer but you clearly don't believe that it will come true. This is what I'm trying to say, is that it takes time to develop faith strong enough to understand prayer and have it "answered". And there IS scripture thst supports my aqrgument, just look at the disciples. Did they understand Jesus straight away? No, it took them 3 years and a revelation in his Resurection before they could even begin to understand Jesus, so that proves you can't just expect to have unshakable faith straight away.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
Yer but you clearly don't believe that it will come true. This is what I'm trying to say, is that it takes time to develop faith strong enough to understand prayer and have it "answered". And there IS scripture thst supports my aqrgument, just look at the disciples. Did they understand Jesus straight away? No, it took them 3 years and a revelation in his Resurection before they could even begin to understand Jesus, so that proves you can't just expect to have unshakable faith straight away.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge Okay, fine. My faith is lacking. But apparently yours is not. So put your faith where your mouth is and prove me wrong, Go to the nearest hospital and use prayer to heal an amputee.
And no, the words in the Bible are not difficult to understand. They say very unambiguously that prayer can be used to generate miracles.
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX I think that is a pretty reasonable request, but although I feel I am close to God and have lots of faith in him, I don't think I have faith strong enough to perform miracles such as healing amputees, and I would argue that I don't think anyone alive has faith THAT strong. I believe the only people who did were the disciples because they were so close to Jesus their faith was truly unshakable. Wish I could but my mind would keep saying "this is impossible", I'm not perfect.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge Wow, that was one of the most honest responses I've ever heard from the theistic camp. I guess I can throttle back the sarcasm now and be more serious.
If healing an amputee is a tall order, then why don't we scale back the request? I'm not asking for much. All I ask is that you produce something physically tangible and rationally compelling. Say, for example, the audible voice of God in both a skeptic and believer at the same time in the same room. Is that so hard?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX Kl cheers! Hmm thats actually a very kool idea, I think if that was tried and say an atheist/agnostic etc. believing person was taken to a good church, and a Christian and the atheist went into a room and prayed together, and the atheist was genuinely open minded and willing to hear God, I think with patience and time, then he would hear God in some way. However, it is possible of course the atheist would not want to hear God, or would explain any voice/feeling with psychology.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge You are correct that psychology is an important problem with hearing God. I would even suggest you watch my "psychology of belief" series for greater details. That's why I said "both the believer and the skeptic" need to hear the same audible voice at the same time. Otherwise, you are basically telling me that God likes to hide himself in events that have naturalistic causes. But if truth matters, we have no choice but to reject such evidence.
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
Ur argument is flawed firstly beacause you are reducing prayers to simply being a request for God to do something for you. Prayer is about getting to know God and developing your relationship with Him. Arguably we should be constantly in prayer with Jesus by living a life for Him and thinking about him. As you progress through being a Christian your relationship and understanding with God develops. Prayer is becoming intimate with God, not making Him your bitch.
philloves2spooge 1 year ago
@philloves2spooge: Mark 11:23-24 specifically says that if you ask God with faith, then God will do things for you. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that prayer is some conditional thing that fails to produce tangible results. You cannot just insert your own made-up interpretation of the scriptures when the literal words themselves fail to manifest in reality.
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
God does exist.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
Um... would you care to elaborate? Or do you expect us to be compelled by unsupported assertions of dubious claims?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : I'd be glad to support myself if I thought it would do any good. There is plenty of evidence, if you would only stop denying it. But seeing as how you have no interest in finding God, and your only goal is seeking a justification to live how you want to live, I know that you would not accept anything I had to say. I could give you God's phone number, and you would not believe. God does not need us to defend Him. He supports and defends Himself in His own time.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
I think you underestimate me. Finding God is a matter of the utmost importance. Surely you must realize that my immortal soul is at stake in this endeavor. If I am wrong, then I have just doomed myself to an eternity of torment. I therefore have to be absolutely certain about my conclusions and base them only on the strictest standards of knowledge and evidence. So if you have evidence to share, then by all means do not keep it to yourself if you truly care so much.
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : If you were truly seeking God, I know you would have found Him by now, because the Bible says that the evidence is plain to everyone. But I shall enlighten you. First, there is the Bible. Second, scientists have discovered that each cell of the body contains thousands of microscopic machines. Third, near-death experiences. Fourth, miraculous things happen all the time. If I had the space in this box, I would tell you a couple of stories about miracles that would blow your mind.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
Thank you for the polite discussion, and I shall do my best to provide you the same courtesy.
To begin, let's examine the Bible. On what basis does the Bible count as evidence for God? On the same note, do you also accept that the Book of Mormon, the Qur'an, the Avestra, or the Bhagavad Gita count as evidence for the same God? If not, on what basis do you reject these texts?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : I was raised Mormon, and I do NOT accept the Book of Mormon as the Word of God. Not that this has anything to do with anything that we are discussing, but I believe Mormonism to be a EXTREMELY screwed up religion. Anyway, the Bible counts as evidence for God because it is the Word of God, written by eye-witnesses. I've never read the Qur'an or any of those other things you mentioned. I do know, though, that the Qur'an is a book on the false god Allah.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
"Anyway, the Bible counts as evidence for God because it is the Word of God, written by eye-witnesses."
This is exactly the same claim made about the Book of Mormon, which is allegedly written by inspired prophets of God. It is also the same for the Qur'an, revealed to Muhammed by an angel of God and then dictated into writing. So on what basis is the Bible true but these others are not?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : I don't want to get into my feelings about Mormonism and the reasons I feel the way I feel, so I'll just leave it at that I simply don't believe it. As for the Qur'an and Muhammed and Allah and all of that, I find that there's more evidence of God than of Allah.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
On a related note, I would also like to pose a side-bar question to you.
Given that you reject the Qur'an and the Book of Mormon, you must accept that millions upon millions of people can be led into a firm conviction about a concept of God that is dead wrong. So in light of the fact that getting things wrong is an apparently easy thing for people to do, what efforts have you gone through to ensure the correctness of your convictions over theirs?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : I have my own evidence. Experiences in my own life.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
I understand you have had experiences. I have had them too. But you must also realize that on some fundamental level, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, and Evangelicals have all gone through similar experiences. I would contend that there is nothing you can share with me that other groups cannot replicate on some fundamental level. So again, what makes you so sure that you are correct, while the others are wrong? Why are you special?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : I am not special. I believe in the Bible, it's as simple as that. My evidence is in the Bible. I know that isn't going to fly with you, but that's the way it is.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
Summer, surely on some level you must realize a fundamental problem with what you are telling me. We began this conversation under the pretense that you had something compelling to offer me of a spiritual nature. Yet all you've really said so far is "the Bible says so." You know perfectly well that Mormons say the exact same thing about the BoM, so why do you insult yourself by pretending that it's okay to do it with the Bible? You are smarter than that.
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@AntiCitizenX : As far as I'm aware, Islam is based purely on the Qur'an. Allah never came to Earth, so you can't go to the place he was born, or trace back the line of whoever he was born to. There is no physical evidence of Allah, it's purely the book. Christians have the book, but we also have physical evidence. As for Mormonism and the Book of Mormon, the Bible says to not go beyond what is written. So that pretty much blows the Book of Mormon out of the water. In my mind, anyway.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
"There is no physical evidence of Allah"
So you admit that physical evidence is the determining factor when framing one's beliefs, yes? Therefore, the words in the Bible are also meaningless without physical evidence to back them up. Do you agree with me on this point? Because if so, I must ask you the next obvious question. Namely, what physical evidence can you (or anyone for that matter) provide that demonstrates the veracity of spiritual claims made in the Bible?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
@SummerSunshine1988
... (continued)
I am going to assume that you can cite specific evidences for spiritual claims in the Bible. I am also going to give specific reasons why I doubt the Bible. For example, the Gospel of Mathew is known to have been written decades after the events being described, and contains many inconsistencies with the other Gospels. It is also nothing more than an eye-witness account during an age of rampant superstition. Why should I be compelled by this?
AntiCitizenX 1 year ago
Believing that prayer has any effect on reality is no different from believing that rain dances control the weather.
As any rational person can acknowledge, both are pointless rituals.
Unfortunately some people simply have trouble breaking free of the comforting delusion that their imaginary friend will change reality because they asked nicely.
Anything humanity wants done, we have to do ourselves. If we relied on prayer, we'd still be in the stone age.
AnonymousDiv0 1 year ago
Oh man! I want a poster of " Science, it works bitches" It would make my day daily lol
Protectourbioshpere 1 year ago
your day isn't already daily?
TheHomelessCripple 1 year ago
HAHA I knew that my laziness in typing that comment would bite me in the ass. I suppose I had that coming :p
Protectourbioshpere 1 year ago
I WANT MY PONY!
TheHomelessCripple 1 year ago
Everybody knows god hates ponies! JESUS!!
Protectourbioshpere 1 year ago
I only fail at being able to give you the answer that you want to hear. There are many things in the bible that i can't explain, but that doesn't prevent me from searching or believing. I don't understand how my dog knows when something tragic is about to happen, and my knowledge is greater than my dogs. Just like Gods knowledge is greater than ours. I applaud you for asking a tough question, and i hope in searching for your answer that you will acknowledge Christ along the way.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
wow this comment is even more fail.
drivemewilder, i was once a believer in much the same sense you are, i looked at everything as gods will, i looked at everything as having a point and having gods sympathies and that the bible was the true word of god.
then my best friend, of christian faith as well, committed suicide.
afterwards, i began to delve into the deep, intricate, incredible world of science and art, and never looked back. i hope you have the same realization one day
generosos87 1 year ago
I'm sorry for your loss, and i'm sorry for your lack of faith. So how did the suicide influence you into the world of science? I work for NASA where everything is about science. And i can assure you that the more people truly study science and are opened up to science not otherwise available to the public...the more of those people that realize that their is a God.
Your friend committed suicide..don't make the same mistake. That in essence what you are doing when you turn your back on God.
drivemewilder 1 year ago
science and evidence for things have explained and done so much more for me than faith did, which is why i find it hard to believe you work for NASA.
tell me, how does the hubble space telescope work if you truly are involved in NASA
generosos87 1 year ago
Hmmm, i'm seeing a trend. You don't believe i work for NASA, yet you don't even know me. You need proof i work for NASA, and have no faith. It's no surprise you don't believe in God.
The Hubble can be found with a simple search from Google. I need not prove anything to you. Search it yourself and discover the truth. I can tell you but you'd continue to doubt.
drivemewilder 1 year ago
im no longer going to respond to you because it would only result in a long, long, long discussion. go ahead and think you got to me and remain happy in your own little world. i didnt even take Google into consideration though lol. its no surprise that you would work for NASA and still beleive in god, just as much that it wouldnt be a suprise for someone to work for NASA and not believe in god, i apologize for my ignorance on this situation.
generosos87 1 year ago
Our rules and Gods rules are different, but when his rules don't fit into our logic or understanding, we accuse him. God can do anything, anything. The question at hand is regrowing a limb. Sacrificing a sheep, to save an entire herd is Gods philosophy. A limb lost sux, i don't doubt that for a second. But i would lay my life down to protect my family...and so would you. We don't see the whole picture, i have no idea what good comes out of a lost limb....but i know someone that does know!
drivemewilder 2 years ago
@ drivemewilder
Dude, you just fail. :)
IceHammer58 2 years ago
@drivemewilder
Think about what I am asking you for one moment. The issue here is Mark 11:24. If those words are correct and true, then you should be able to demonstrate them. I choose the amputee bit because there is no historical precedent for any human limb to ever regrow on its own. Such an event would be a genuine miracle if it happened. So put your money where your faith is. Demonstrate me a miracle on demand, or admit that Mark 11:24 is wrong.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Each time you open you're mouth, you reveal how incredibly stupid you are and everyone that follows you. You don't believe...fine. You choose to believe that the entire universe and everything in it, is here by chance...rather than by God, fine. You are entitled to believe or not believe in whatever suits you and your needs. But when your whopping 40, 50, maybe 100 years on earth are over...and ETERNITY begins...we will have no sympathy for your lack of faith, and subsequant punishment.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
@drivemewilder
Of course I do not believe. The words in the Bible are DEMONSTRABLY WRONG! Would you believe the Mormons if they knocked at your door this very afternoon and said the exact same words? No, of course you would not. So again, DO NOT INSULT US by thinking we should believe you and not them.
I challenge you to read Mark 11:24 and perform an actual demonstration of that verse by healing an amputee. If you are so sure, then PROVE ME WRONG! Put your faith where your mouth is.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
It seems that the only thing that keeps you from believing, is lack of faith. You are hung up on finding proof, in particular the regrowth of a limb. The regrowth of a limb is physically impossible. It's like asking God to make a round square. It breaks the rules which HE created, just like asking us to love him....but not mess with free will. Those are HIS rules. Instead, God uses the missing limb to reach other people. A limb lost in war, could serve as a poster to end war...which was worth it
drivemewilder 2 years ago
@drivemewilder
That was the sorriest rationalization I've ever heard. You would never tolerate such pathetic nonsense if, say, a Mormon missionary said these exact same words to yourself. So please, do not insult us by supposing we should take it any more seriously. If you cannot demonstrate your God, then you do not "know" anything about him, and it is shamefully dishonest of you to pretend that you do.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Your god broke "the rules" when two different people raised the dead. Jesus and Elijah. Broke the rules to allow to survive in the stomach of a fish for 3 days. And broke the rules of aerodynamics with flying chariots. Is your bible wrong?
Which is it... either your god can't break the rules, as you say. Or can break the rules as the bible says. Decide which of you is wrong.
lrn2reason
Exmech2 2 years ago
You must be an amputee with all this talk. If God did regrow a limb...you would simply theorize that the limb was never gone or that the doctor was responsible, or something similar. Through the ability to Clone...being able to regrow a limb could be entirely possible. Yet you will give scientiest and doctors the credit, instead of God the credit for making us knowledgable to be able to do so. Thus the saying "no proof is possible."
drivemewilder 2 years ago
@drivemewilder
[Through the ability to Clone]
Let me make this abundantly clear so there is no misunderstanding: There exists NO PHYSICAL MECHANISM by which humans can naturally regrow limbs. If you were to begin with a single amputee and provide NO medical treatment beyond simply praying, I would convert to your faith if the limb grew back on its own within a reasonable time frame, AND you could reproduce this effect on demand. Anything less, and the Bible is demonstrably wrong.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
You prayed on this video? Dont think so. You didnt believe and you were not sincere. Plus you really didnt want a pony did you? Come on, you can confess. All I can say is that I enjoy your silliness. When it comes to believing in God, for those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. In other words, there is nothing that will provide proof to you. Keep the funny videos coming. I did get a good laugh. Your delivery is really good.
jimu57 2 years ago
@jimu57
[When it comes to believing in God, for those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.]
I beg to differ. I could very easily be swayed by all kinds of proof. Go find the holiest saints on Earth and let's see them heal an amputee through prayer. Do this, and I will convert. Otherwise, the words in the Bible are demonstrably wrong.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Would you believe that someone had a stroke from a 100% blocked carotid artery in their neck and witnessed by 3 doctors. This person suffered horrible headaches from this blockage. He just asked God to show him what to do one night. It felt like warm water was poured on him. A week later, tests showed the blockage in the neck was gone. Even an arteriogram showed he has blood vessels like a teenager and he was 50 years old. And also, headaches went away and hasnt had one since. What do you think?
jimu57 2 years ago
@jimu57
You might get mad at me for this, but would you believe that he could have helped himself? The mind is a powerful thing if used in certain ways.
beanio12 2 years ago
It doesnt make me mad. Several people have said the same thing. Just doesnt to seem like a mind over matter thing that was instantaneous.
jimu57 2 years ago
@jimu57
Great story. Now heal an amputee.
The problem with this story is that stuff like this happens all the time. Cancers go into remission, doctors make bad diagnoses, arteries self-clean, and bodies heal. None of it requires God. The only thing that does NOT seem to happen is regrowth of a limb. So demonstrate to me an actual prayer that regrows a limb, and you have something compelling.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
The thing is in addition to anticitizenxs comment why did your example haveto be the result of your god where is the necessary link?
There are many other conclusions that could be made based on your story that the power of human thought has the power to heal the body
Another being healed the wound that is not god like a extrateresetial being or a kind spirit
these are just someexamples there is no necessary inferrence to god all you have is prayer and healing
excandersham 2 years ago
not an amputee story but still rather amazing.
jimu57 2 years ago
@jimu57
Well some people do pray for things like that. I would think that something would be wrong with that as it is a selfish thing to do, but in the Bible Jesus says that you get WHATEVER you wish to have.
beanio12 2 years ago
"For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."
Of course proof is possible. You claim you must be sincere in order for a prayer to come true? Fine. Heal an amputee. Come on... you can do it. Prayer has the power. Right? You believe, and are sincere. So pray for an amputee to be healed. Don't you think they deserve it to?
Put up or shut up.
Exmech2 2 years ago
"What is it about prayer that makes people believe so strongly?"
People may use logical fallacies to justify why they continue to pray, but the initial draw to it is mainly emotional, and a bit of an appeal to the imagination. Face it, if you were sky diving and your chute didn't open, you'd pray too.
Skepticism has a strong intellectual appeal. But for most people it doesn't compete with an emotional or imaginative appeal. Even though they really can't, many people still want to believe.
graphicalex 2 years ago
@graphicalex
"Face it, if you were sky diving and your chute didn't open, you'd pray too."
No I would not. You may, but don't dump that cop-out on others.
N0SACREDC0WS 2 years ago
You can't even read the entire verse, little lone look at the entire Bible comprehensively. Every verse you mention is only part of 1 verse, part of 1 story. John 8:14....why do u stop there? You need to put it into context, by knowing the situation and the whole story not just what you want to know. Start reading in verse 12 and continue PAST 14 through 30. If you pick and choose what verses, and what part of the verse to share....then it is not me backpedaling.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
Matthew 11? Or Mark 11? Perhaps...just maybe....you are reading and interpreting the Bible much like you just confused Matthew, with Mark. That's not a shot a you, rather a good example of we as humans making the simplest of mistakes, yet question an All-knowing God....the creator of the Heavens and the Universe.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
wouldnt an allknowing god keep his story straight?
Testimony:
- John 5:31: If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
- John 8:14: Jesus answered: Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.
Judge or not judge?
- John 9:39: And Jesus said, "For judgement I am come into this world.
- John 12:47: I came not to judge the world
doesnt look like words of even a little knowing god... let alone all...
2 blatant contradictions, queue backpedalling.
Creationsofmyown 2 years ago
Sorry, I meant to say Mark 11, not Matthew.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Valid argument! Unfortunately, you are putting all your stock in one verse and in one argument. The entire Bible must be looked at comprehensively in order to accurately draw a conclusion on any one argument, such as...is prayer effective. One must understand HOW prayer is answered. You must examine the Bible as a whole to determine how to pray and how prayers are answered, again Gods wisdom exceeds ours and his answer far exceeds our own rational.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
How exactly do you look at verses like Mathew 11, 23-24 and make this claim? Where else in the Bible is prayer addressed in such as way as to clarify this statement beyond the obvious meaning of the words? The words in the Bible are very matter-of-fact when it comes to prayer here. I fail to see how the Bible attaches any caveats like you say it does.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Expecting a certain outcome, is limiting an infinate God. Therefore we are expecting God to conform to our ways and rules. I don't believe i've added scripture, only tried to explain it. I take the literal meanings in the Bible, literal...and the figurative meanings, figuratively. If i told you "i flew my corvette down the highway this afternoon." You would interpret that to mean, i drove my Vette really fast. It's meant as an added emphasis.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
[Expecting a certain outcome, is limiting an infinite God]
I did not impose the limit. It is a literal description of God's behavior according to the Bible. If you want to pretend it is only a figurative expression, then that is fine. But now you must face the problem of uncertainty, which leads us to an entirely new question:
By what standard to you judge the "correctness" of any given interpretation? That is, how do you "know" your interpretation is true and correct?
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Or allow me to put it this way:
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with what you say, except that you are drifting further away from the idea that the Bible is the "inerrant word of God." When you have to interpret the Bible and fill in the blanks, you are conceding that the Bible cannot stand alone on its own merit. If you have to interpret the Bible, there is no way of knowing if your interpretation is correct without first subjecting it to some kind of battery of tests.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
So in the end, you HAVE to test the Bible somehow if you want to rest assured in your interpretations. However, testing is exactly what you say we cannot do. Yet without some way to scrutinize the various interpretations for validity, the truth is no better than a wild guess.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
So by not getting what you ask for, when you ask for it...you're against God and question his ability, or even existance? By conforming to OUR ways and rules, God becomes nothing more than a substitute teacher that we can walk all over. Christianity is about faith...how is faith established if we are his robots, or if we demand to have it our way? Faith is trusting that God will provide for us in ways beyond our imagination, not a sports car that may kill us next week. Would you prefer the car?
drivemewilder 2 years ago
[By conforming to OUR ways and rules]
They are not my rules, they are God's rules. The Bible is very clear when it says that God will grant us things as long as we pray for them and believe. Period. There are no conditions or caveats attached to this proposition. All this other stuff you say is NOT IN THE BIBLE. You are adding to scripture what isn't there; which is fine as long as you acknowledge that the words of the Bible cannot be taken literally.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Your definition of "heal" and Gods definition, are surely not the same. Thank God we have the ability to save a persons life, at the minor expense of a limb. God can/does see the long term plan, not the immediate future, and will use an amputee to tell a story and reach other people...that only an amputee can tell. God created the universe and everything in it...including you, the mountain, and even the internet. You don't still think Al Gore is responsible for that do you? A human finger, easy!
drivemewilder 2 years ago
This is not what the Bible says. The Bible is very clear that you will receive what you ask for, just as long as you have faith. The argument you are making is not congruent with the words of scripture.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Agreed! The Bible does say he will...but be sure to read the entire scripture. He says you must believe that you will recieve them. If you don't believe, but try it anyways....you are simply testing the waters and seeing what will happen. God doesn't want you to give part of yourself to him, or to trust him on certain conditions. He wants you to trust and believe in him with all your heart. Sometimes asking for A, but getting B instead....comes full circle and you get A, just not how u imagined.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
Then by all means, get yourself some faithful believers and heal an amputee. The Bible promises you can move mountains, so surely the regrowth of a single human finger should be a piece of cake.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Good question! It's about a relationship. Your wife, kids, and mother knows that you love them. But saying it and having a relationship creates a deeper love, respect, and understanding. Why would God give you any/everything you ask for, when we ourselves don't know what we want the majority of the time. We certainly don't know what's best for us.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
[Why would God give you any/everything you ask for]
Because the Bible specifically says he will. You cannot have it both ways. If this statement is true, then the words in the Bible are not.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
Hmmm, what a completely flawed assessment of God. Everything you compare, is within your own capabilities, measured by your own standards and on an intelligent level according to human. God is much bigger than that. What you were missing, was the word "sincere." Otherwise you are testing and evaluating God and what he can do. A silly game by even human standards, one God will not play. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, u feed him for life.
drivemewilder 2 years ago
Let me ask you this? If God knows how sincere you are at all times, why bother with the ritual of prayer to begin with?
charkopolis 2 years ago
This video makes insanely good sense to me, I can't believe I used to buy into this bullshit.
Letsmakeasamich 2 years ago 12
This vid has been pimped by the Ffreethinker! Congrats!
TheD0ded0de 2 years ago 6
Very good videos. The patient and kind tone you use in your videos is also very helpful. I think people are more likely to listen to the facts if you don't scream them at them.
ThinkWithYourMind223 2 years ago 5
You actually felt my tone of voice was patient and kind? Most people tell me the exact opposite. Then again, most folks tend to interpret any argument against faith as "arrogant and hate-filled." In reality, I was just trying to be "dry and academic" with just a hint of sarcasm.
In either case, thanks for watching!
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
I may have spoke too soon, but many of the videos are quite kind in tone. Some aren't, but at least this video was.
ThinkWithYourMind223 2 years ago 3
Nevertheless, your videos are awesome.
ThinkWithYourMind223 2 years ago 2
I love the question of prayer. Prayer only works on diseases with a chance to go into remission... How useful is prayer if it only works on things which already have a chance to go away if you wait long enough?
Cyrathil 2 years ago
I cannot think of any cool or witty comment, so I will just say that I think that this is an awesome video. Fav/Five.
ColonelCosmic 2 years ago
i pray that church and state become separate again and that money gets to scientist that need it for dope medical research that could one day grow me a lung cause i smoke (and home skillet some new legs and everyone really cause um nice)...and gods a non exsistant dick
orkasteez 2 years ago
It should be pointed out that when someone prays and believes, they hold a psychological state which can have a strong effect on the rest of the body. You don't even need to pray to achieve this. When you wake up, decide it's a good day, smile, and be happy about everything positive, and tell yourself everything negative is unimportant.
MikhalisBramouell 2 years ago
Sorry I couldn't pray with you; Κατά Μαθθαίον VI·5 (Matthew 6:5)
MikhalisBramouell 2 years ago
About healing amputees: Leviticus 21(16-23) clearly details how God hates handicapped, mis-shapen and ugly people. There isn't really a diversity program in christianity. I don't think gays do too well in there either. Still, heaven's the ultimate gated community, so I guess they can have who the hell they want in there!
MrSonicAdvance 2 years ago
YOU LIAR!
I got the pony, the rocket ship... but still babeless. SHIT!
rationalmuscle 2 years ago 9
I'm guessing ex-mo. Though Mormonism certainly has a disproportionate number of absurdities, it seems you have a lot more knowledge about it too. Am I right?
redpilled14 2 years ago
I like your series. Mocking irrational beliefs while being insightfull.
Is it me or are you channelling a little bit of AaronRa?
slvjm1 2 years ago 2
AronRa and TFoot are my two biggest inspirations, so I can't help but channel their essences a little. I do try to add my own twist to things, but the whole talking-slide-show format is hard to turn into something truly unique. I'm always open to suggestions, however.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
I just noticed a similar style, but it is a very effective style, and you do it well.
I do like the breaking down of the LDS leaders talks. If any group of men deserve to have their teachings examined, it is those who claim to be the sole voice of God. I would love to see you break apart Packer's October 2008 talk, where he just plain lied about history, like you did Oaks.
slvjm1 2 years ago
Do you have a link for the specific talk? I'd love to give it a look.
AntiCitizenX 2 years ago
I've been following a chain of video channels on Youtube: James Randi > Arona > Thunderfoot > BionicDance > The Atheist Experience > Pat Condell > now AntiCitizenX.
Keep up the good work to aiming our civilization to a clear thinking and reasoning species.
ColonelCosmic 2 years ago 3
@Colonel Cosmic-
I would also recommend you check out holysinecure, lazyperfectionist1, and potholer54. Very good stuff.
chuckfaststrat 2 years ago