The Founding Fathers on Christianity, God, Religion, and Morality in Their Own Words

[seekertrth]

J. Madison,Father of the Constitution,Bill of Rights; "The number,thye industryand the morality of the priesthood and the devotion of the peoplehave been manifestly increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."

It is u that takes quotes out/context + twist things around, lie, etc, as I have proven in several of ur videos.

[avalsonline2]

even if you can unquestionably prove that all of the founding fathers were devout christians, you still have to acgnowlege the fact that they put together a secular governing document: the US constitution. moreover, many of the founding fathers stated that religion andd politics needed to be separate.

[bRizzle2009100]

@avalsonline2 Actually Washington, the Father of our Country, disagrees with u. He said the most indispensable supports of govt is RELIGION and MORALITY. The federal govt is prohibited from establishing a national religion or a state run church yes, but it's not prohibited from public religious exercises like the national day of prayer or having church services in the capitol building. So is the govt secular? No it is not.

[avalsonline2]

@bRizzle2009100 i did not say the government is secular. government is a body composed of people. people can practice their religion. the the US constitution is secular. its rules are based not on religious, but secular. as in there is no religious test to hold public office and the government rep cannot lead the prayer. there is a difference between secular and atheistic or antitheistic. the government is operating under secular/nonreligious rules. as opposed to a theocracy.

[bRizzle2009100]

@avalsonline2 Representatives lead prayers all the time in Congress. The House and Senate specifically begin each day with a prayer. They even have a prayer room in the Capitol Building. And u make the assumption that bc religion isn't mentioned, that means it is exclusionary. The Declaration of Independence is a religious document. It lays out the principles by which the Constitution was formed. Religion played an important role in our founding.

[avalsonline2]

@bRizzle2009100 representatives in congress can practice their religion. moreover, service in congress is voluntary. but in a setting like a public school attendance is mandatory. a teacher is a government rep. it is therefore illigal for him/her to lead a prayer. back to 1st amnd.

how is DOI A RELIGIOUS DOCUMENT? and you do realise that the declaration of independence is not a governing document, right. it has absolutely no legal standing or prescedent. we do not govern by its principles.

[bRizzle2009100]

@avalsonline2 What in the first amendment says government representatives cant lead prayer?

And yes, to claim the Declaration is a secular document is absurd. It mentions God 4 times. U cant have it both ways. U say the constitution is secular bc it doesn't mention God. But the Declaration does mention God, but yet u say its not religious. And yes the Declaration is NOT a governing document. "we do not govern by its principles." Have u read the Declaration? That is absurd.

[seekertrth]

@bRizzle2009100 However, your arguement, as all of them have been thus far, falls flat. The religion and morality was firmly held/believed to be a matter of the citizen; not the government. A seclar government is one that does not hold any religion or denomination thereof above another,does not engage in state run churches: that IS! the definition of a secular government.

U fail to understand the words u use. Perhaps it was ur brainwashing...er..um.."educat­ion" at the hands of "religion."

[MindofaJedi]

Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian."

[bRizzle2009100]

@MindofaJedi Ethan Allen was a great patriot. But according to your quote u say is attributed to him (I have not researched this quote of yours so cannot confirm its validity) his religious opinions and beliefs did not represent the founders as a whole. About 95% or so of the founders were Christians, so listing that 5% and saying its a representation of them as a whole is dishonest. (Not calling u personally dishonest I was just stating a fact).

[MindofaJedi]

@bRizzle2009100 No they clearly were not . The 95% is a complete fabrication . Diests were NOT Christian . At some point in their writings most of the founding fathers displayed the beliefs of Diesm , that there was a driving force of some kind behind the natural laws that controlled the universe . You could say they believed in a "creator " if you felt the need to do so . To call them Christians is outright incorrect and had they been ,America would not have become free .

[bRizzle2009100]

@MindofaJedi Ok then. I want u to disprove me. Send me a message containing evidence from all 250 founding fathers saying that most of them were deists. I want there own words, not some 21st century historian's words. Some of the founders were reverends and at least 100 of them were members and held officer positions in Bible societies so this is going to be very interesting.

[seekertrth]

@bRizzle2009100 O,the Declaration is NOT a legal document,therefore has no legal bearing,the Articles of Federation(before u try riding a dead horse) was completely thrown out b/c it didn't work,the Consitiution IS the basic legal framework. It's based on the British model and the knowledge known as the Enlightenment,based on democratic principles of ancient Greece + pre-Christian influence Rome.

[bRizzle2009100]

@seekertrth This video has nothing to do with the Declaration. The Declaration laid down the foundation the republican form of govt that was manifested in the Constitution. The Declaration tells us where our rights come from, why govt exists, what our rights are, what role the govt is to play in our lives, and most important of all contains the core principles of an ideology called freedom. It doesnt have any legal binding u are correct. But it was the beginning of the ideology of freedom.

[seekertrth]

@bRizzle2009100 ur the one that mentioned the Declaration in a comment, guy,that's what I was responding to. The other comments are responses to ur other comments/assertions.

[bRizzle2009100]

@seekertrth Also, when u open up the US code, the Declaration of Independence is the very first thing mentioned. The entire Declaration is printed in the US code on the very first page. The Declaration is apart of our culture and political system. The reason being is what I've told u before, it was the beginning of our system of govt. It was the beginning of the ideology of freedom here in America.

[seekertrth]

@bRizzle2009100 Incorrect, again; the REAL beginning of the "ideology of freedom" here was the Summary View of the Rights of British America, authored by none other than T. Jefferson (u know, the one u have gotten so many other facts wrong or plain lied about). U really don't know half of what u think u do; arrogant, ignorant, liar, etc.

[bRizzle2009100]

@seekertrth (1)Do u even know what "The Summary View of the Rights of British America" is? When the Virginia House of Burgesses got together to choose delegates for the Continental Congress, they were also giving instructions to the delegates. Jefferson proposed a set of instructions for the delegates. His proposal was not the one chosen but the other legislators were so impressed with Jefferson's work the House published it and titled it "The Summary View of the Rights of British America".....

[seekertrth]

@bRizzle2009100 I have it and the entire story in a book within arm's reach!! I know the WHOLE story but am limited by space for my response. The point being u know nowhere near what u think u do.

[seekertrth]

...And, yes, Jefferson the primary author

[bRizzle2009100]

@seekertrth (2)... If u look in the US Code, their are 4 things listed under "Organic Laws". Organic laws are laws in which your other laws are based off of, or the foundation they are based off of. The 4 things listed are: 1. US Constitution 2. Declaration of Independence 3. Northwest Ordinance of 1787 4. Articles of Confederation

The Declaration, according to the US Code is apart of the foundation of nation's laws. Whether u like it or not, the Declaration is relevant to today.

[MindofaJedi]

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

—Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 "Man is fed with fables through life, and leaves it in the belief he knows something of what has been passing, when in truth he has known nothing but what has passed under his own eye."

—Thomas Jefferson

[bRizzle2009100]

@MindofaJedi #2. The two quotes u used "Question with boldness..." & "The day will come...." are both commonly misinterpreted quotes. I have a video on misrepresented quotes with those exact two quotes that will explain what I mean. Jefferson considered himself a Christian but didnt hold orthodox or common Christian beliefs. He did not believe in the divinity of Jesus but admired Him as a man & had great respect for Him. My video on Jefferson's religious beliefs goes into more detail.

[MindofaJedi]

Its funny that Christians try to Hijack the word God and make it a reference to the " Christian " God which Franklin , Washington , and Jefferson ALL agreed did not exist according to their own words .

[bRizzle2009100]

@MindofaJedi Really? That's why Washington prayed from the 1662 book of common prayer. That's why he became the godfather of 8 different children and publicly affirmed his Christian faith on 8 different occasions. Franklin and Jefferson cannot be put in the same category as Washington. I didn't even quote them in this video. They were some of the least religious of the founders but were not atheists, deists, or agnostics. I have an entire video on Jefferson's religion using his own words.

[MindofaJedi]

@bRizzle2009100 Ok , as I stand corrected Washington was unitarian , he believed Jesus did exist , but that he was a man , not divine . Jefferson often poked fun at the very idea Jesus was a divine being .Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

[bRizzle2009100]

@MindofaJedi #1. Washington was a devout Anglican. He prayed from the 1662 book of common prayer. He publicly affirmed his Christian faith on 8 different occasions in the ceremonies required to become the godfather of a child in the Anglican Church. He commonly released orders during the war for his soldiers to be good Christians and to pray. He had payed to reserve pews in many churches. He was seen by family praying every morning & evening with a Bible. Cant get much clearer than that.

[5avan10]

When you claim that "It was rare back then to find someone in America that was a non-Christian, which was about 0.2% of the population," you obviously do not take into account the millions of native Americans, nor the African slaves brought over by the Europeans, virtually none of whom were Christians. Perhaps they don't count because they weren't considered people?

[bRizzle2009100]

@5avan10 A lot of slaves were Christian. Look at guys like James Armistead, Richard Allen, Frederick Douglas, and more. The stat I had up there was taken from the different bodies of the churches/synagogues/mosques. Many Native Americans converted to Christianity bc of our founders, but the vast majority of them werent or didnt want to be apart of the newly formed United States of America. Plus, its hard to calculate the Natives when they occupied land that was unknown to most of the colonists.

[bRizzle2009100]

@5avan10 ... and it is not bc I dont consider them people. Like the Declaration says, we are all created equal.

[5avan10]

@bRizzle2009100 If you consider them people, then you need to fix your statement to reflect that. The native Americans outnumbered the colonists by millions. Less than .001% of them were Christians. I don't think you could convince anyone that the majority of the African slaves who were "Christians" had much choice in the matter. And in a colony where most people were Christian, is it not telling that some of the most outspoken founders of our nation were not?

[bRizzle2009100]

@5avan10 The Native Americans did not choose to participate in the American Revolution nor did not want any part of the newly established Constitutional Republic. They were separated from the rest of society geographically and culturally. They were separate from the colonies for the most part. They did not live in the same society as the rest of the colonists did. Im not demeaning them, Im just stating a fact. The Native Americans were not apart of the same "world" as the colonists.

[bRizzle2009100]

@5avan10 ... And most of the "outspoken founders" as u called them, were in fact Christian. U had Patrick Henry and Samuel Adams. George Whitfield was a reverend that was very influential in the Revolution. Thomas Paine was one of the few non-Christian founding fathers. It shall also be noted that Paine was ridiculed by the other founders for his religious beliefs and his opinions of Christianity. Paine in his latter years, was isolated from most of society for his beliefs.

[types10000]

my 13 year old sister has just informed me that in her religion class they are learning about how catholic school children have more 'respect' than public school children because they follow Jesus.

just the latest in the schools religious stupidity, im in Australia, is there any kind of watchdog for this kind of crap?

[MrChristianStuff]

Hmmm... I like all Christians discussions. Christian community should keep us all talking. There's a lot to talk about. I'm not so sure that what the founders believed, lived or even thought is what we should be focusing on today. It's should be given it's appropriate significance, of course but... I just posted a clip with a few questions of my own... Cheers!

[carlindelco]

Thanks so much for making and  uploading this video!!

[bRizzle2009100]

@carlindelco No problem. Be sure to share it with others. The country needs to see thru the lies of the secular media and so called historians. We need to spread the truth about our founders.

Thanks for checking out the videos.

[carlindelco]

@bRizzle2009100 Amen to that I will..