Thom confronts Jerry Doyle on economic fascism

[IanDavidOnDU]

Wow, Doyle put on a lot of weight.



[larryjohnny]

Thank you Thom! You destroyed that conservative hate radio hack!  Jerry Doylee show is so annoying, first of all he has the MOST commercials that I have ever heard on a talk radio show and he does half the commercials in order to trick your attention, second, he only takes calls from kiss-ass callers who agree with him, only giving 5 maybe 10 seconds to other opinions! He sounds like a SHAM Hammity CLONE, or RuSH LImPDick Clone! Thom Hartman, however, is an honest host and informs us w facts!

[kangalanatolian]

Health insurance is already monopolized to the point of bad medicine. STOP the regulation and let the consumer reports groups feedback what works. The market will shut down the rest.

Make the FDA an advisory group instead of federal gangbangers. Make health savings accounts rollover year to year. Get the inept government OUT of medicine, not further in it.

[hcvang]

Excuse me, Doyle? We dont pay 'five o' of what we earn, dude. Try 39% and the rich pay even less - companies pay 18-25% of profits (which is why the american shit conglomeration called McDonalds doesnt pay taxes to the danish government - they cheat, steal and thieve their way to the bank - you can keep THAT shit)

Get your facts straight.

[BigTex1454]

@hcvang

You have to factor in all the taxes which go to government. And it is right at 50%.

That does not include inflation which is a hidden tax that takes place from money printing.

[hcvang]

...so if you get cancer, that's just tough? you deserve that, for some reason? if you dont have the success to pay for treatment, you must deserve dying of cancer - that's the logic I'm hearing.

what does succeeding on your own have to do with not having to fucking croak of curable diseases because of lack of finances?! what the HELL?!

[SirGeorge8600]

Thumb up if you came here watching radiohead videos lol

[TaoOfOkada]

(continued) They also don't have the debt we do,they don't have millions of illegals entering those countries who feed of their economic system, and they certainly don't have the corruption we do. Their fiscal policies are more sound than ours, they have higher rates of literacy, and corporate taxes are lower than here. Bottom line is that changing into a completely socialist country would bankrupt us just as economic fascism (corporatism) has. Bring back free markets and things will improve.

[TaoOfOkada]

(continued) Too much power in the hands of our so called leaders is bad for the rest of us. Corporatism is the problem, not capitalism. Special interest groups, lobbyists, and back room deals (you know, those things Obama promised to get rid of but didn't) has done more to harm our economy than anything else. But let's say we become a fully socialist country. My question is: can we afford it? People point to Sweden and Norway but they have more competitive markets than we do. (continued)

[TaoOfOkada]

There's a difference between certain "socialist" programs (fire, police, public schools, etc) and the intrusion of the govt into the "free" market (which we haven't had for decades). This intrusion is what caused all this mess we're in, not free market capitalism. The marriage of govt and the corporations is a dangerous thing. I, for one, don't trust 99% of the politicians out there, democrat and republican alike, to do the right thing. (continued)

[tjnh961]

SInce when is having a police force socialist? Virtually all societies have some public programs but socialism is state control (or ownership) of the economy.

Public schools began in this country over 100 years ago. Who would have called us a socialist nation then? Forcing homeowners to pay high taxes for schools is unfair and that is socialist.

[baigandine]

@tjnh961 How do you define the "economy" here? Law enforcement is something private enterprise could do. Caring for the sick is something a government could do. Both protect the people. So why shouldn't law enforcement be private?

[tmmy777]

@baigandine i would say economy includes how goods/services are made or provided. A private police is not a good idea bc who would direct/control them? Most societies know police must be under public domain. It isn't really socailist bc its a small part of economy but in modern world sadly it's becoming so. Caring for the sick can be done by either public or private. The private is better but they exclude the poor. So we need health ins for poor people. (new user name long story)

[Amann0407]

actually, I think Doyle did good here. Considering he has said many things that is the core ideal of Wealth of Nations, the capitalist basis for the western world.

[mentaloaf]

Thom sounded pretty good and he actually agreed with Jerry on most of the issues they talked about, but I'm with Jerry on this one....I'm not busting my ass on my business AND full time job for the government to take half of it so that they can take care of some stoner couch potato...If you want good education and good health insurance for you and your kids then you need to go out and get after it...work hard and make yourself a better life.

[baigandine]

Half your pay check is not going to couch potatoes. It's going to the military, SS and Medicare. A small fraction is going to couch potatoes.

[joe035]

Public schools without public unions would be better served. Why not deal with HMO monopolies and enforce antitrust laws?

[wackassegyption]

Keynesianism, both right and left. Corporatism behind it all...

Ron Paul2012

[insAneTunA]

The same thing is happening here in the Netherlands. Capitalism for the normal people, and socialism for the big corporations. The real big corporations got bailed out, the small entrepreneurs are going bankrupt. But here the right wing is in charge. The point is that the right and the left wing are the same these days. They go to the same secret meetings, and together they make up a plan long before things get to the senate.

Eliminate the bankers, the big ones, the real owners !!!

[captcrais101]

Doyle what areyou talking about with tort reform . They passed that. Obama voted for it in the senate. Too bad it is reformed in favor of corperatism. But they passed it.

[crustyshirt]

He wouldn't be president, if otherwise would happen.

[PerryLogan]

Like a lot of progressives, Thom keeps saying Obama has "gone the way of Bill Clinton," but this makes no sense. Things are going exactly the opposite direction as they were under Clinton.

[captcrais101]

That is not true. Thom means acting like a blue dog and that is what Obama is doing. He is being complacent with the Bush policies. He is not prosecuting the previous adminstration just like Clinton did to Reagon and Bush Sr. Obama is governing like a moderate republican.

[PerryLogan]

Obama is continuing Bush II policies. This makes him closer to a fascist than a moderate Republican. The man is a party traitor, pure and simple.

[86apike]

Agreed Perry

[puck30]

thank you perry, meet the new boss same as the old boss. he said he would bring the troops home during the election. nice to see that's going well. not!

[jimgauth]

Jerry is a good example of well intended folks that just don't understand the gravity of the situation. They don't realize that progress is no longer measured by an increased qualiy of life overall, but by how powerful (some believe) is our empire. If he is so concerned about our debt, why ignore military spending?

[crustyshirt]

Mind set of a Liberal. Sometime in 2008 on CNN.

watch?v=6g7xFRjY22s&feature=re­lated

U guys are deceiving and you deceive each other. Like the comments below, sounding like you sounded back when every1 was drooling over the radiant Obama only to Thom, soundin all delusional and kiss assy like.

Believe me if he would of gave Jerry time to speak and make a point, he would stump you because I know and its obvious YOU LIBS DON'T THINK THINGS THROUGH or your just corrupt.

RON PAUL 2012

[ANTIDALLARD]

ooh yeah. I know . the left is all corrupt . And the coservative right is a paragon of virtue and common decency, like my man Doyle, here.

Until faced with the hard questions

[crustyshirt]

Look bottom line is that they are gonna pass it , look how everything else is going and like oh yeah the people behind this agenda are gonna be like "well it seems like the people don't want it, they keep on refering to the all the places that have this system. So I guess we'll keep it as it is."

Like the ppl in power really care!? How come you guys don't see it that way!? Its gonna happen regardless, I'm just bein like...Well I told ya so...

[ANTIDALLARD]

how the fuck does a fuckin peabrained , squirmin little oik get to have a book published. Fuck me.

[crustyshirt]

I know if it were up to you liberal nazis he wouldn't, people might learn something. That liberals are corrupt and deceiving.

[GoldenSlumbers04]

There aint but two sides, the working peoples side and the big bosses side. The union side and the Hitler side. The first thing that Hitler cracked down on when he took the Nazi Chamber was the Trade Unions. And it will be the Trade Unions that beat Hitler." -Woody Guthrie. hmm id say you sound more like the nazi

[GoldenSlumbers04]

You sound like a fascist crusty shirt. Unions arent the push for communism, they are the push AGAINST fascism. God forbid we have people sticking up for their rights. Ever read Grapes of Wrath? wherever working people are fighting for their rights, Ill be there."

[GoldenSlumbers04]

no i understood. i called you a fascist because youre against workers rights. Socialism certainly COULD be a precursor to communism, but thats like saying capitalism is a precursor to fascism. What we need, and what he had from the '30s-'70s, is the right mix of capitalism and socialism. I'm talking I dont care if you make 40 grand a year or 40 million a year, you have that right, but you dont have the right to make that money by taking away others rights.

[GoldenSlumbers04]

"If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States." -Fmr Vice Pres Henry Wallace.

And I dont why but all of you Ron Paulians have the same talking point that somehow the last 30 years have been Keynesian economics. Breaking news, that ended when Reagan got into office. The heart of Keynesianism is demandside spending, not supplyside.

[crustyshirt]

Big gov. in the public sector...Keynesian economics is alive and well, since 07 on steroids. We 4 a fact live in a neocapitalist/socialist society, so really just another hue of socialism.

Special interest groups, the UN, the FED, they all support each other. And civilians that abide by legislations that those crooks in power shit out, r either ignorant/shortsighted or corrupt.

If only Ron Paul could pull of a fasaud that hes bact by "special interest" groups we would then have a chance.

[crustyshirt]

Nihilistic, A.D.D. "liberals" man don't like wanna look at or for true culprits.

1st of all the value of the $ is weakening, so that means products will appear more expensive...okay, including health insurence. Animalistically throughing it away with the way people are going about this.

Thom, its ilegal to leave someone bleeding in the hospital lobby they have to treat the person. But #376 a city block down the street inline to the hospital WILL BLEED TO DEATH. Bogus liberals...

[ComradeSephiroth]

I love how Hartmann points out that sometimes a little security against the vagaries of luck will encourage us to take more risks in areas like entrepreneurship. Also he points out how we accept without debate certain "socialist" (i.e. public) programs like schools, courts, fire/police, etc. With the possible exception of anarcho-capitalists, everyone's a socialist to some degree.

[crustyshirt]

Liberals, Government unions then theres unions that the public establish. So that whole argument is bull.

I live in MA, we have this "public option" we also have in result the most expensive health insurance... Now imagine public option all over the country... Yeah oops didn't think of it like that.

[lisabob22]

oops medicare has 3% overhead, and private insurance around 30%. European countries that use single payer, or government run healthcare do so at half the cost of our healthcare system.

Didn't think of that did you?

[JSparkleZ2]

Conservatives are all about giving up every single right they have except the right to make bad financial decisions...

Hartman / Nader 2012

[styrofoamheart]

thom debates a retard.

[lisabob22]

Thom wins because he uses facts and common sense. This Jerry moron has nothing but spin. The facts prove that for profit healthcare is not as good or as effective as not for profit healthcare.

[styrofoamheart]

our system works great if your goal is making money off dead americans. the military has been doing it for 50 years. what is wrong with the insurance industry getting a little of the action?

[crustyshirt]

Our system works great because the QUALITY OF TREATMENT IS THE BEST...And your not a # waiting in line bleeding to death down the street.

Ever seen that Mr. Bean episode where he has to wait in the lobby and he keeps on trying to get a lower #? Yeah, come to think of it there will probibly be blood shed over getting treated first... Everything doesn't sound good about this, including the stories of other places that have this socialized crap and how it doesn't work.

[funeralsong34]

You realize Mr. Bean was a comedy, you didn't believe the bunny rabbit on Monty Python killed those people did you..lol

I kind of agree with Doyle's premise on being a conservative, he has some common sense behind his thoughts but really we don't live in a true free market..

Plus I don't differ my thoughts on welfare & corp welfare called subsidies or tax credits..its the same thing & I have to laugh when people cry about so called handouts as the money given to poor is then given to the rich.

[funeralsong34]

I can understand some people may not believe in socialized programs its their opinion & they're entitled to it but others feel the same way about handouts given to business & corp.. I for 1 believe in a little of both, that if we don't help out the less fortunate that 1 of 2 things will happen, they'll die or they'll resort to crime /violence. I believe we should help out small businesses & say fuck you to the corp..

[crustyshirt]

All in all being fake, artificial, being overly nice to the slow person, etc....any millions of ways of that princeple, fai/ ultimately...

[crustyshirt]

A Mr. Bean skit, playing on that crappy system.

So lets get rid of the people that look like they've "succeeded" financially? Is that the plan of 2day? Pple that wanna live thinking things will be better with socialism/socialized by gov., is like...Lets say you got a bar room full of different "classes" of people, okay? A hold up in that bar happens, that DO YOU THINKS GONNA HAPPEN? THEY'RE GONNA START SELLING EACH OTHER OUT DOWN THE LINE....food 4 thought...PEOPLE ARE JUST GOD DAMN SELFISH.

[funeralsong34]

Well there has been skits on how shitty American healthcare is too, so you can't really use that as a defense.

As for those people who succeeded? Please the financial sector got its ass bailed out as in they are failures, right now you got them saying but oh we didn't need the tarp funds while not mentioning we bailed out AIG who paid 100% of the hundreds of billion of dollars back to the backs.. 100 cents on the dollar who the fuck does that, they also received benefit on the Fed's low %.

[crustyshirt]

"not as good or as effective"........? What does that mean? Because ppl from all over the world where they have this socialization climb mountains to get to here. So if its so great why don't just stay there. Cubans try to make it into Gitmo!... it sucks so bad. Ppl from those islands try to make it to Florida in homecrafted boats to get away from that socialized crap. On and on... Facts?

[styrofoamheart]

i know what you mean, we have a real problem with europeans ingratiating to the US for our healthcare system.

[Umberto2]

1/6th of the economy is no excuse for keeping it salient. Who cares if it goes under? Some other industry will move in to take over top spots of the economy.

[styrofoamheart]

@Umberto2

no shit. i thought conservatives were pro sink or swim. conservative = hypocrite

[crustyshirt]

life IS sink or swim...

[xdir]

If you use the argument that its 1/6th of the economy, then at the rate premiums are increasing it will be 1/5th & 1/4 in a few years and like citigroup & AIG be too big to fail.

[julsHz]

This is the ONLY place where I hear rational, informed- and fearless debate on important issues. Thank you for that, Thom.

[rwcbanzai]

Thom your arguments are so valid & logical based on fact & wisdom.

We are so fortunate to hear your wisdom.

Socialism historically was created to monitor & regulate corporate monopolies or break them apart & end their price gouging & speculation in Europe.

Doyle's arguments are all gobbletyGOoP about destructive individualism for profit - that cowboy mentality of genocide for natives.

Thom, knows the history of the causes & effects of our nation & for that I applaud his wisdom!

[crustyshirt]

Truth and speaking from the heart doesn't usually unfold into few words.

[crustyshirt]

Karl Marx said himself socialism is the precursor to communism. Saying socialism was created to monitor & regulate corps. is an alibi, it sounds great to the peasant. If you watch the white shoe boys in D.C. pass bills you know they want the good stuff to stick out to deceive.

[Davetech23]

Wow. That was an unfair fight. Thom asked way too hard questions and the guest had no answers to any of them!

[bushputz]

"Have You Seen My Country Lately?"

Not for the past 30 years or so since Reaganomics went into effect...

[FixReason]

Thom killed him.

[educution]

Thom fires laser into Garibaldi's face

[Strutinan]

@educution

Funny, the character on "Babylon 5" actually GOT what Thomm is talking about...but the actor who played him is STILL a dumbass.

And now I don't like the show as much ;P

[mikepalomino]

@Strutinan Heh, you know - were it not for this conversation - I would have never realized that Jerry Doyle = Garibaldi. (I never watched Babylon 5 when it was on the air, though now I wish I had).

Doyle seems to be propagating the same brand of Joe Plumber conservatism that is high on volume and light on substance with no facts to back up arguments. I don't get how this sort of rhetoric flies. It's so patently vacuous, it's a wonder how it maintains currency in the marketplace of ideas.

[FriedDaisy]

There's a big difference between Bush publicly saying, "bring it on," verses Clinton publicly saying, "if you attack our friends, you'll answer to us."