George Formby Style Banjo Uke: Split Stroke and Triple

[Halpk100]

John, why do your animations seem backwards? Or is it just me?

[scottedelman]

Thanks for this! I've only been playing the ukulele for three months, but I've fallen in love with it, and with George Formby, and am trying to teach myself "Why Don't Women Like Me?" I'm also trying to learn the split stroke. I guess I just do it slowly over and over and over and over again each day, and after a few months it'll click? Any suggestions for a chord progression to move through while I practice so it doesn't sound too boring? Thanks again!

[lardenr123]

Hi, great video.

Just wondering though, obviously practising builds you with muscle memory to learn these. How long would you practise this a day, and how long do you think it could take to learn. I'm never sure that I give it long enough. I practise at least 30mins a day,

[wittgrjp]

Well there's no set time, if you give it 30 mins a day, that's quite good and sooner or later it will click, perhaps when you least expect it... with some of these techniques, even if you get stuck and despair on one day, if you sleep in it you can come back to it the next and find it just "clicks". Keep at it!

[lardenr123]

@wittgrjp Great, many thanks for the tip. I have a Banjo Ukuele which I bought last year and only just got it tuned today with new strings. It is old, Circa 1904, but sounds good. This will give me something to practice this on!

[CLASSICMONSTERGUY95]

What is your uke tuned in?

[CLASSICMONSTERGUY95]

hi there

For my birthday I want a banjo ukulele (not even touched one! never played one!) and I have found some (The Grafton UB2 from AndyBanjo, the Heartwood DUB-5, but I really want a Dallas!) Anyways when I get it how do I start playing (I mostly want to play Formby songs, in which the Grafton is already tuned to) as I cannot find any learning videos? Just watching you play AMAZES me! When I watch all these videos about eg split stroke I am following them, then I watch them play!

[saintellins]

I love the fact that when he plays the Cleaning Windows tune he grins just like George Formby...Its instinct when you play his music

[waterlevelrising]

This builds on Matt Richard's great tuition as it gives a little more about the re-occuring "cycle" for split stroke. Which from you I know determine as D u d D u d D u ? Is that correct... or should there be another single 'Down' at the beginning of each cycle? The diagrams are wonderful and precise, but because of that for the longer term it might be worth correcting them for (dominant) righthanders - the uke seems to be the wrong way round for my interpretation?

Fantastic though - thanks.

[mnbv990]

Teaching aids of a most excellent fancy Sir, well done and thanks for your efforts.

[rusmat0173]

Thank you so very much - I could never have worked this out myself. Kind experts like yourself make the internet the wonderful place it is!

[jblackbath]

Thumbs up if you feel like this guy could have lived next to Frodo over in The Shire..

[wittgrjp]

@jblackbath Well I am a big fan of Frodo and LOTR but I've never been compared before- I do live in an english shire in a country village!

[BOT101st]

@wittgrjp

Hampshire? :P

[AngieMairmie]

@jblackbath believe me it was a Shire, but not THE Shire - I was best friends with his sister for years... I wonder where she got to... :-) Hello wittgrjp's sister... love you still, after all these years! x AMM

[jblackbath]

I feel like this guy knows Frodo for some reason..

[elverlands]

Sounds wonderful. Where do I find the cords your playing in this video?

[blueprint4]

Lovely, perfect, clear and inspiring!!

[harrychef]

Congratulation mate you are now famed as the teacher of ukulele for Frank Skinner. I thought the program was really good did you all see it Skinner On Formby

[charlietango33]

is the fan stroke the same thing as a triple but not as fancy

[olitherecorderplayer]

This was a very interesting video and I thank you very much for it. I just get my banjolele and I like it very much.

[PeteyHoudini]

1st class instruction. Thanks!

[MsPerfectsquare]

WOW! This is the best instructional video I have ever seen. You are a wonderful teacher! And the animation helps to visualize what one is striving for while playing. Creates a very effective mental image.

[denoftisbury]

Can you tell me what chords you are using for this demonstration please.

[Andy8Tran]

@denoftisbury C then C7 then F.

[Drevilbreakfast]

good stuff cant seem to get the triple yet

[thumper444]

this is so cool, must try and play one day thankyou

[MrUkuleleMan2011]

what banjo-uke is that? <3

[Hikikomori013]

Great stuff. I have a tin can handy, so maybe it's time to make a banjolele and start practicing.

I guess the split strum technique would work on any 4 string banjo, as long as you use the pick. The triple would require a pretty fast wrist. Although I do play my steel strung banjo fingerstyle.

[TheBullet1954]

Brilliant, how easy is that lol, only joking but will have a go...would love to see this down on paper

[lukekellycopy]

0:36 I think my jaw fell off

[Doomguy458]

Great tutorial,but instead of using the index finger (My nails are short),I use the thumb. Is there something wrong with that picture? Or am I doing okay?

[auntiewaffle]

My favourite video ! I,m new to Uke banjo, have recently acquired a vintage instrument and really want to learn the GF playing style.....the tuition here is very clear and easy to follow; deff' give it a try ! A book of these instructions would be very welcome....any available ?

[LsBaba]

Great tutorial. I'll give these strumming techniques a try.

I'm new to the uke (6 months) with a standard style soprano. Thinking of getting a banjo uke, as well. Does the banjo uke have a similar spacing (size) of frets? I find it difficult to get several of the chords due to the close spacing. Any advice you can give on this? Thanks.

[lordpretender]

Absolutely brilliant.



[mrstueadie]

Love your work. Thank you. I will definitely be giving this a crack.

[crunterstamps]

Fantastic,Why would any Mong dislike this??!

[beephopmusic]

Hello! I really enjoyed this. I've been thinking about buying a banjo uke for some time now and I was wondering if you have any advise about a banjo uke vs a resonater uke.. I read what you said about this strumming tearing your fingers up with steel strings. Well I don't use a pick at all but I'm dying for that happy dixiland sound. I would appreciate your advise and I'll come back to your videos to learn how to play!

[hej829]

Love the tutuorial. Can you teach the chords to the little diddy that you play as well. It's so great i want to learn!

[turbonoisecat]

If one was to learn to play the ukulele, does the

Banjo-ukulele come naturally?

[LTGMF]

great tutorial! thank you very much!

[crunterstamps]

If only I hadn't lost my Right Thumb nail when I was 12 I'd be able to play the Stroke.As it is,I have to Double the Playing speed..Sometimes it works...?

[pmcpherson1]

you're an ace teacher; you explain tnteresting techniques very well, demonstrate them nice and slow and the animations are a bonus. I'll be checking out all your videos, thanks a heap.

[timobrixi]

How can I get lessons on a CD? What key are these videos in? What are the

notes used are used in these practice sessions.

timobrixi

[delorme42]

Damnn that uke barks!

[DrFunkenstien69]

Hi, I watched your videos and have learned a lot from you, thanks very much :)

What are the best strings to get? i have only been playing a for 5 months but picking it ok.. i think.

Cheers

Jock aka DrFunkenstien69

[1voicesinging]

In your final demonstration, how about noting the chords you are using so we can play along? Would be much appreciated ...thanks!

[harrychef]

Hello Chap. I have been learning from your videos for a while now. I am sure i have the theory of the Fan stroke ( in fact i know i have) But!! i am struggling to get it as you are. I have a £25 soprano UKU but i have just bought a £120 Concert UKU both wooden. does the Fan & split stoke only work on the Banjo UKU. That is my question. Ps one day ill post my own video for you to see & Laugh Cheers Harry

[quijote623]

Great tutorials if you have time prease upload more. Many thanks

[HGSoulja]

this is hard :( struggling bad! lol

[Edantes1976]

@HGSoulja Me too!!!!



[fncbear]

I have a 1930's banjo uke and this is a very helpful video. I am still learning to play. Thanks, please post more!

Cary

[duke000222]

Superb. At last I've found a clearly explained you tube ukulele lesson. Great animations which are nice and clear. Thanks.

[MrAggie1980]

Wow! Absolutely fabulous video. I've been listening to a CD full of Fromby and everyone of his songs has a 'solo' where that is exactly what he is doing. And even after only about 20 minutes, I'm starting to hear the right sounds! Thanks so much!

[waterdog226]

I have to work on this! I am using a concert uke, regular, not a banjo uke.

[bertwindon]

Not that I'm trying to play Banjelele, but I like your lesson, and would like to know the chords. Or are they obvious ? - have I goofed ? OMG, I hope this won't develop into something else I don't have time for !!

[TheBarryLloyd]

Thanks so much for your tutorials!! I don't know how I would learn these strums without you.. I'm still a bit rough, but it's coming! Thanks again.

[fishybishbash]

Thanks - just been given a Grafton uke and this was a great help

[Forgotten26196]

I have played the uke banjo for about 4 years and i have tryed to work out how to do that thank you

[razzamatazz100]

Very good instruction. Will this technique work on a 4 string plectrum banjo?

[wittgrjp]

I'd give it 15 mins before your nails are worn away and 30 mins before you draw blood! These techniques are not compatible with steel strings! Cheers, John

[inkey2]

@wittgrjp in regard to your statement do you happen to know if Formby used steel or nylon (gut) strings on his "banjo uke"

[xJasbo]

indeed, ye ole banja is where this playing style comes from. Can be a bit more tricky though if your banjo has steel strings an one them real skinny necks.

[xDeAdLeYMaDnEzZ]

the thing is my grandad gave me a banjo and i want to learn how to play it,but i havent got a clue so i practice every night has anybody got any tips

THANKS

[levinlasse]

@razzamatazz100. It will work just fine on a banjo, just use your pick instead of the fingers, you just do exactly yhe samr pattern with the pick!

[banclaster]

Could give the chords for this vid? I see C and C7.

[PurpleUkuleleGuy]

@banclaster when i'm cleaning windows is: C C7 F D7 C A7 Cdim C

[banclaster]

Thanks, these that you've given appear a little different to those wttgrjp is using in the vid. , but they are helpful nonetheless. thanks again.

[TAPlastic]

The triple has 4 strokes ?

[wittgrjp]

Yes that's right. However to see the "Exact Triple Timing" vid to see how they fit together, not in the time of 4.

[TAPlastic]

Can these lessons be applied to the ukelele too

[wittgrjp]

Yes no problem, although for a normal uke strum over neck just before it meets the resonator, whereas in these videos you see me play over the head just before it meets the neck. The banjo uke is essentially the same instrument with a bigger resonator. How well depends very much on the uke setup- if the "action" is too high (distance from the string to the neck) it may be difficult to pull off some of the strokes.

[sorapyper]

amazingly helpful!

[banjobobby1]

What a great video. I've been struggling with a really heavy Gibson 5 string banjo for some while and only making pathetically slow progress wih "bluegrass". I think i'm going to ask fore a uke banjo for Christmas!

[MRDAVIDINGLIS]

Good instruction. Just the right stage for me. I appreciate it, thanks.

[digidanrud]

yes keep these coming, im just learning and they are very usefull...thanks

[yourliver1]

haaaa...that is sooo cool. It took me a while to get that split-stroke down....then i added in the triplets (that i alread knew).... and i just burst out laughing. I think i just had a ukulele epiphany.

[jahmein725]

Excellent. Very helpful, please continue bringing these great tutorials ;)

[japroctor]

Absolutely fantastic, what a tutorial regards John Proctor

[guitarplayer1948]

I've been a guitarist for many years and have only recently been captured by the sound of the ukulele and banjolele! I used to think they were mere toys 'till I heard musicians like yourself play them! I have a banjolele on order...hard to find around here! Thank you for the lesson on strumming Formby style! Don

[berekderek]

I love these tutorials.

I found the arrows in the animation a little confusing at first. Some of the arrows paint themselves from point to tail. Would be less confusing if the arrows always painted themselves in the direction that they are going.

Wonderful how organized your tutorials are.

Thanks

[itheviewer4444]

Hi great tuition! I have learned a lot from you thanks! one question on the triple, after finger down, thumb down, we have finger up then down, well I find instead of finger up, thumb up is more natural and comfortable? so the last 2 fingerings is thumb up finger down. do you think this may be bad practice? or if it sounds the same will I be ok?

thanks

John (Formby fan)

[Whitelightng]

Are there any good DVD lessons on the Banjolel to get a beginner started????

[thekev506]

brilliant video!

[LyndorX2]

I have an ordinary Soprano Ukulele but the techniques should still work?Ive tried them and the odd time i get them right they sound fine.

[thekev506]

they'll work fine, the only difference between a regular uke and a banjo uke is the way they project sound - in a regular uke the sound vibrates and bounces around inside the 'box' and comes out of the sound hole, whereas with a banjo uke all the vibrations go into the drumskin

[LyndorX2]

Thanks.

[Knillclose]

Hi,could you give me some help,if we were in 4/4 time, how many beats is the split stroke,the tripple ,the shake and the fan stroke, I recon that would be a big help on how to fit and mix them up, Please reply

[wittgrjp]

Hi if you look through the comments in this section you'll find some discussions in this area. Also try the "triple timing" video which analyses this in detail- it's often not quite what people think as when you slow down to teach, the tutor can lose the rhythm! Some people love analysing in this way to help learning, others hate it and just prefer to practice till it sounds/feelds right. Either way is OK.

[gabblewba]

Very interesting so much in it to get the distinctive sounds associted with this instrument, Brilliant, cheers for sharing.

[cardboardfrog]

This is a really helpful and well detailed tutorial, good lord are split strokes ever confusing?!

you don't really get an idea of good george formby is until you try and play his style

[XxDregeNxX]

Great lesson! The animations were extremely helpful!

This technique looks really hard to do, but I guess I'll give it a try. I play metal mainly on my guitar, but this looks really cool.

[STANLIZ4]

Hey, this is great tuition, Im off to find how much a banjo uke costs, looks easier than the piano!takes me weeks to get a piece right!

[Sheecreature]

thank for that, good clear instruction and diagrams, exactly how i need it to be. thanks

[joeybabydarlin]

Hi, I learned the split stroke here three days ago and managed the triples today, you were a great help and a pleasant voice among ukes :)

[malibujohn1]

I recognise the passage you play as the chorus to "When I'm Cleaning Windows" Can you please give me the chord progressions you are playing. I assume your instrument is tuned GCEA.

Thanks.

Malibujohn

[wittgrjp]

Hi yes it is from Cleaning Windows, the chord structures in this part are Formby Originals worked out by the George Formby society, the best thing would be to buy their songbook, it gives the proper structures to a range of GF popular pieces, you'll find different structures in the more generally available books. Cheers, John

[malibujohn1]

How long did it take you to master the split stroke assuming you practised every day?

 I have thw basic but find it difficuly getting up to speed. Fantastic instruction video. Thanks

Malibujohn

[wittgrjp]

Hi, the split stroke you should get in a few days or within a couple of weeks. Keep practicing over and over. If you feel you get stuck, simply leave it, come back to it the next day, and you may find you get on slightly better. Repeat this a few times and you are there. [It's amazing how sleep can actually help with learning banjo-uke strokes] Cheers, John

[kikuflower]

You did an animation for the split stroke, then 1 for the triple, but could you show an animation that shows the two in combination then I can watch and practice the full sequence (or is it literally just a case of following from 1 straight into the other?) Also, I saw another video about a fan stroke; could you show that one? You're inspirational, and maybe the politest person on youtube!! :)

[kikuflower]

This is fantastic!I'm just about to start Ukulele lessons but I have just discovered the banjo Uke and hope to progress to that at some point! Do you play a regular ukulele too? Please do more videos!

[wittgrjp]

Thanks for the comments. You can actually put a triple just about anywhere, it is often used during a musical break without the split. Within the split, try putting it in place of the 6th and 7th stroke (counting 12345678). That way you can start and finish on a down stroke to match the split and the motion flows nicely. With practice you can put it anywhere, ADJUSTING strum to be sure it flows/works out in the bar- e.g. try in place of 3 and 4 whilst pausing (not playing) stroke 2.

[davidfos]

Fantastic tuition! One small question just to check my understanding. When I try putting the triple in place of the 6th and 7th stroke of the split, does this mean that the last stroke of the triple (the down stroke) is in fact the 1st stroke of the next 12345678 stroke split? This seems quite easy to play. Or do I need to speed up the triple and also play the 8th note (up stroke) of the split, before beginning the next 12345678 stroke sequence?

[wittgrjp]

The suggestion was to do it in 6,7 in order to start 8 on an upstroke so yes do it faster, it may take a bit of practice. I don't think there's set rules here as long as you don't get your fingers in a twist and it sounds good! You can see the exact timing in the "triple timing" video and the GF society official tutor does a video to help work out where to put tricks.

[davidfos]

Thank you for this extra explanation! I've been playing the ukulele for over 20 years, and for most of that time have had problems with syncopated strumming. I love these videos because they give me some building blocks. Thank you for taking time to create this channel. I am rediscovering the joy of ukulele. My grandpa (who gave me his ukulele because he didn't like to watch me playing with toy guns) would be proud.

[pittsspiritspits]

G R E A T job!

Really thanks!

For slow brained and lazy people like my I found it easy to study it using this silly note:

D u d D u d D u D u d D u d D

Capital letters mean full strum

small caps mean 2 strings strum

d is for downstroke

u is for upstroke

Thank you again! :D

[wittgrjp]

Yes that's very clear indeed, a nice representation, .. just add an extra "u" on the end to complete the sequence. Cheers, John

[ootahee]

Thank you very much for this. George Formby's technique always dumbfounded me and you've provided a clear explanation.

[hueychoi2006]

All right here,you're using too much energy just to strum look at my video playing Let's Dance by jake shimabukuro. My hands are very relaxed. Just relax your hands out and you'll be able to play better without getting tired.

[wittgrjp]

Hi, yes you are very relaxed, far more so than I. The GF style though in the solos is sometimes very rapid and energetic by design. If you want to see it played at it's very very best with the perfect combination of dexterity and effect, try user AceMusicOnline and see Andy Eastwood in action.

[blueprint4]

just found you, thanks tons, very helpful, I'll keep practicing, Liz

[DontLickLarry]

Ha! I've been practising like a loony since my last comment and I've cracked it..thanks to you. Great stuff, thanks for posting.

[DontLickLarry]

Oh, I get it, the TRIPLE is actually FOUR strums!! No wonder I've been messing it up!

Good video, thank you very much for posting it.

[wittgrjp]

Yes that's right, why it's called a triple has got lost somewhere, the first two strums are very close together which may have something to do with it, and it has a triplet feel, but the precise timing is revealed in the video response above. Good luck, John.

[ChrisGraeme]

great stuff

[BOT101st]

The triple stroke is easy to do, I've sussed that, but the split stroke is hard and annoying!

But however i practice alot to and its coming along. Great video! This helps alot with learning GF stroke styles.

[wittgrjp]

Thanks for the comment, keep practicing. It will come, and then you'll wonder why it was so hard! If you play piano, try also m134mr where Mark plays the sound/rythm you are aiming for with the split stroke on the piano, which may also help. Cheers, John

[busterpiggle]

Your animations seem to be looking through the instrument and are a little confusing in that respect.

I do not own a ukulele but am interested in taking it up because of your videos. Would you advise for or against the George Formby autographed model I have seem on eBay?

[wittgrjp]

Hi I have not seen the one in question, there were 50s models from East Germany with a GF signature as standard in gold ink by the tuning heads. If yours is the same, it is not suitable for GF style (!) as the neck overhangs the head, instead the neck should be level with the head and angled back slightly. Also they have plastic not vellum head. They do have an interesting sound though- I bought one and converted it to GF style and it is fine, it took a few hours in a workshop. Good luck! John

[coldasbutter]

Thanks!

[sgtbenadair]

what do you have you banjo tuned to

[wittgrjp]

Hi this one is GCEA

[KenMiddletonUkulele]

A really clear and informative video. I shall certainly watch it over again. I intend to learn this style of playing.

Thanks so much.

KEN

[wittgrjp]

Hi for an exact analysis of George Formby's Triple timing, the timing that gives it that magical quality, see my further video response above(the one with the waveform in the picture!)

Cheers, John

[Uketeufel]

Thanks for the great lesson!

[4276357]

you make agraet video

try also jack jones .

o mother

[catpatches]

Thanks John for the reply on the song books. I am looking to joining the society but am looking for the American prices. This is all very exiting thanks again.

Patrick

[catpatches]

Thanks for your help, I love Formby's style. Where can I purchace Formbys song books?

[wittgrjp]

Hi the best book is from the GF society shop (google "george formby society") they go to a lot of trouble to work out the genuine Formby chords. A secondary book is "The George Formby Songbook" from Amazon- beware some of the songs are transposed away keys GF used, but it gives you the melodies also, and some songs not in the society book. Good luck! John.

[paullallama]

Thanks EVER so much! I loved the tutorial.

Take Care

[drfrancov]

Great tutorial!...I love it...BTW the triple is played over 1 beat (DDUD each 1/16) or is it played over 2 beats (DD-UD)or 2 beats:DDU(triplet)-D(1/4)...Th­anks for the answer in advance!

Franklin

Ironwood, MI

[wittgrjp]

A very good question thanks for asking, most people like me find this very difficult to explain! It's like your normal uke "triple" timing(as on your own vid) but four strums instead of 3. The last two strums are almost together D-D-UD. The timing description isn't precise since it speeds up as a "flourish". I'm struggling to explain as most people learn the fingering and the sound, then get it right through experimentation! Cheers John

[drfrancov]

John,

I think your explanation is clear...We'll say play the 2 time down 1/8 duration using triplet feel and the last 2 strums U-D fit into a 1/8 with triplet feel...Thanks for this and the other videos...They are fantastic!...How did you create the animations?

Franklin

[wittgrjp]

That should get you very close, then expiremtn to get a sound that works. I'll ask around some friends in the GF society to see if they have a better explanation. Thanks for the other comments. I made the animations using 3 different programs. First powerpoint to create the animations. Then screen recording using Camista Studio, at which point adding the soundtrack. Finally editing in Adobe Premier (the cheapskate version) to mix it with the main video.

[drfrancov]

Boy!...Let me tell you, not only you have talent as a musician but you make a superb instructor...Best luck!

Franklin

[wittgrjp]

Hi Franklin, sorted now... I've analysed George's own triples by analysing his waveforms instead of my own to get the pricise timings of his "magical sound", see video response to this vid.

[jayeyetube]

Great stuff! Very interesting and helpful, even for a figure-of-eight player!! Lol!

[wittgrjp]

I like your "figrue of eight" videos jayeytube, very entertaining. I was thinking of getting a tenor uke, would you be able to recommend anything?

[oliverbtaylor]

Thank you very much for putting the video on the website.

[metalheadjosh16]

Hi John, could you please do a fanstroke tutorial? ;D Im having alot of trouble and your vids really help me

thanks

[wittgrjp]

It's there now see video responses. Good luck!

[ausbanjo]

G,Day John, Thanks for instruction re split strum, tripple and hammering on string. Just so I can get mentally prepared how many more recognised strumms are there ?. Are there any instructional DVD's in the formby style you would know of and recomend. Your stuffs great but with the addition of a DVD you can watch them over and over in front of the telly until you get it. Cheers Les.

[wittgrjp]

There are quite a few in this style- fan, shake, sweep, are the main basic ones but there are lots of variations in fingering and timing for different effects. Two of the real masters have made a DVD, Gerry Mawdsley and Andrew Little, they are both available from theukuleleman web site. They don't use animations like this but they have both been official GF society tutors and really know what they are talking about.

[wittgrjp]

hi that should have read ukuleleman web site (Andrew Little Fine Art) they are two different sites.

[Petey1308]

Hi John.

This is a great tutorial, & the animations are really helpful. I knew the split stroke and had it sorted, however, I never acually knew what the Triple was.

Please please please - Make a fanstroke tutorial :) I know roughly what it is and how to do it, but cannot acually do it!

Cheers, Pete

[wittgrjp]

Thanks Pete with 3 pleases I might give it ago!! To be honest I only mastered fan properly myself a few months ago, learning from materials from Gerry M, Andrew L, Steven Sprought, and Peter Nixon (the last two have vids online). I think it takes looking at a few people to get this right, it's all in the timing not just the fingering, and the motion can change from a "wheel" to a "grab" as you get faster and faster. I'll put something up when I get chance whilst I still remember how I learned!

[wittgrjp]

It's there now see video responses or my channel.

[mutleymclad]

Hi John,

Yes the animations were superb and really helped. Please find time to do more - it has been a great help to me.

Regards, Clive

[mutleymclad]

Thanks John - i was one of the guys who requested you do this - great job - thats really very helpful to us beginners. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

[wittgrjp]

Thanks for replying Mutleyclad. If I get enough views I'll do some more. Tried to make everything very clear ... though I have 3 young sons so I can see the book at bedtime style creeping through at the beginning! The animations seem to work well, though it will be more tricky to do them for the fan.

[SUkeSoc]

Thanks for this, like the animations!

[wittgrjp]

Hi everyone, see comments on "about this video"... some mailed me and asked for a tuition video, this is a first attempt, let me know if it is helpful. Cheers, John.