Is the Term Pagan Still a Pejorative?

[BlueFireWitch]

@howie1945 I don't have a problem with that term. What Pagans do is so vastly different from what the Ancients do that it's fitting.

[MephistophelesMyLord]

I have never, ever met a Pagan individual who did not like the term "Pagan". Maybe the occasional person who likes neo-Paganism better, to distinguish the old religions from our new variations and reconstruction movements. Words take on new meaning over time, they evolve. I use Pagan.

[silvaignis19]

Well I identify myself as pagan and not neo pagan, I dont see it as a pajoritive term as a pagan and im proud and its not like I go out of my way to tell people what they are. :)

[jin54363]

the word "pagan" is totally an insult that the christians used to call them to recognize them as uncivilized peasants

[BlueFireWitch]

@jin54363 Yeah, I mention that in the video, lots of words started out as insults. The word Christian started out as an insult too, actually. But the point is not what the word meant, but what it means now. It used to be that gay and queer were also pejoratives. The GLBTQ community has also claimed those words.

[jin54363]

@BlueFireWitch

you will understand better my point if you watch this video from an hellenic greek here.

/watch?v=ktumq9Axe5A&feature=c­hannel_video_title

[BlueFireWitch]

@jin54363 This video is from the person for which this video is directed, it doesn't change the facts. The facts state that many terms, this one included, started out as pejoratives and no longer are. 

[jin54363]

@BlueFireWitch

what does he said about this response then?

[BlueFireWitch]

@jin54363 He told me that he hated me or rather despised me for using the term. He posed no logical argument.

[jin54363]

@BlueFireWitch

then what is the meaning of the word pagan these days?

[BlueFireWitch]

@jin54363 Didn't you watch the video?

[jin54363]

@BlueFireWitch

yes i did, but probably i haven't heard you saying the meaning.

[controverscialthings]

I'm still not convinced

[BlueFireWitch]

@controverscialthings That's your perogative. However, there's a string of words that have ceased to be pejorative throughout their usage. And some which started out as non-pejorative. Language evolves and that's a fact, but if you don't want to call yourself Pagan because of what someone thought of the term 1500 years ago, that's fine by me.

[ArchiveOfTruth]

gods and goddesses bless you, chris, and your baby

[draco8014]

I think it's ok to use the name Pagan. I personally identify myself as a Druid. I call myself a Pagan to those who don't seem to understand what I'm talking about. I don't see it as a derogatory term. I like identifying myself as my own religion, but to the larger community we're Pagans so let's be proud of our religions.

[wikedwitch80]

As far as someone telling me what I can or cannot call myself, I say they can go suck an egg. I shall call myself what I choose and if they don't like it, that's just tough, they don't have to talk to me or do as I do.

I think someone that can tell someone what they can call themselves or their religious path is a pompous you know what. I mean really, who do they think they are and who made them lord and master? I know I sure as heck didn't and never would.

[wikedwitch80]

What I find funny is that many of those that try to tell you what you can or cannot believe, worship or call yourself also have almost a hatred of Christianity, because they told people what they could or could not believe or worship. I find it so hypocritical they practically hate a religion for doing basically the same things they themselves are doing (with the exception of threat of death if you don't convert).

[nekoinu]

I never really thought of 'Pagan' as an insult. Of course, I never knew the history of the word. But, even now, I still don't really think it's much of an insult. Not anymore, at least. I think it's kind of the same as the LGBT community saying 'fag' and 'dyke', some are comfortable saying it amongst friends, but others are not. In any case, a word is just a word. Definitions of words change, so don't take them too seriously, I guess.

[ActionBastard85]

Be carefull not to intellectualize to much, something that comes from the spirit . . . .I guess you can't really build something without being a lil' litigious? You do have pretty skin, no pagan isn't a dirty word. . . unless you want it to be? lol, I don't think it matters.

[PersephonesChoice]

I personally do not believe the term "Pagan" is derogatory - within the communities that identify with it. It is like saying Christian, when a person is a practicing Catholic or Protestant. Should the term "christian" be considered deroatory if someone disapproves of Catholicism? Misconceptions and a basic misunderstanding of what the term "pagan" means is where the problem lies. Some individuals think it means "devil worshipper", which is a Christian concept, not Pagan. Great questions to ask!

[Socinus]

I dont really consider Pagan derogatory. I identify as Pagan simply because it's easier than doing the entire technical name schpeal.

[Chaos290]

I remember talking about Pagans with my friend (Who was raised a strict Protestant) and he asked me if Pagan meant Devil Worshiper...

I wasn't surprised... I think there is still a general misconception associated with that word... Just last week in school... Someone asked why we don't have Halloween parties in school... they said it wasn't a religious holiday... I said "yes it is" and someone turned around and said "were not devil worshipers"

(cont)

[Chaos290]

I told him I was a druid (which I'm not) simply to gauge his reaction... Everyone looked surprised and confused and asked me if I really was... I said no and they all turned around.

The term Pagan is still misunderstood even today... But it's still the best term to use in my opinion if your trying to lump "Pagan" religions together...

[TheAlisonChannel]

Is that like black people saying the "N" word, or gays saying "fag"? I don't know what pejorative means.

[jimsim3]

couldn't say it subculture but its more of a substructure. I would say given a enough time we will all return to it. when the Roman came I think the people turn to Christianity because it was the only way to defeat them. At that time it was a new ideology and a way to destroy slavery.

mix spiritualism with ideology you get a Religion. Were as spiritualism is pure in it form , Its self awareness and self searching incorporating a respect for nature and its cycles. country folk know this./|\

[Wiccanslyr]

That's great if you're address a specific person or small group that all follow the same path or you know the paths of the people you are addressing, but on a larger, more general scale, like when making YT videos for example, it would be impossible, and silly, to do that. Thus the use of the term, Pagan.

[BlueFireWitch]

I agree, and context is at play here.When referring to the larger community, it's the only term I know to use, but when referring to specific aspects, I do like to use specifics, which can be difficult. For example, defining someone as a Germanic Reconstructionist is one thing, but to explain some people's paths is much much harder. I know people who are influenced by so much, it's easier to call them eclectic Pagans.

[Wiccanslyr]

I refer to myself as Pagan. I think that some people are, quite frankly, too touchy/picky about things like this. If a person don't like a certain term, then they have the right not to use it and to request that it not be used when directly addressing them. However to go to the lengths to demand (and "hating" and demeaning someone because they choice to use the term IS demanding) that nobody use it is ridiculous. As with ANY word it's about context and connotation not the word itself.

[BlueFireWitch]

I was shocked and dismayed that someone would take it to the level of saying they "despised" me for calling "their" gods Pagan. I agree that context and connotation are key here. Largely, the label is really only necessary is we identify oureselves as a community and a sub-culture to be recognized by society as a whole. Without a term to identify with, we're seperate regardless of our similarities. I like the umbrella term for that reason.

[ErgosesChannel]

@BlueFireWitch - Surprised myself given about 15 years in. Don't fret. Perhaps they were really a priest or priestess from ancient Rome and awoke from a time capsule of some sort only to find such a blasphemous, common, association with their beloved gods. ;P lol. No one can take ownership of a god or gods, otherwise they're not god(s)! :) Durh! They'll either become disinterested from little stuff working later or, if that serious/anal, then the energies they work with will humble them.

[Neopagan2007]

It would depend on which group you term as pagan. Even though the word pagan has come to mean any non-Abrahamic faith I dont think it applies to all. I consider those whose religions originate in the areas occupied by the Church to be pagan, heathen or neopagan. I do not consider Native Americans, Buddhists, Shintos and Hindus to be pagan.

[Neopagan2007]

Personally, I have been trying to get myself in the habit of using the term non-Abrahamic because I feel it is a better way of grouping everyone under a single term. However, when I refer specifically to European non-Abrahamic religions I use the term pagan, heathen or neopagan.

[BlueFireWitch]

It's a very thin line, because at the same time, many people who identify with the terms Pagan or NeoPagan incorporate beliefs from many different religions including Native American, Buddist, Shinto and Hinduism. I'm not set out to completely define the term, just justify it's usage. I've already gone down the definition road and it didn't end well.

[Neopagan2007]

I see your point. I should clarify what I meant. I was referring to the actual religions that identify as Buddist, Shinto and so forth or those that claim to be based on ancient paths. Those faiths that take from different areas I would put them where ever they wanted but they would also fit under the umbrella term non-Abrahamic.

[Neopagan2007]

I dont consider it an insult to refer to someone as pagan if they claim to follow a religion based on ancient paths that were called pagan. It is no longer an insult and those that used it as such have been dead for centuries.

[thegoochieguy]

no, thanks to education and of course those fundies, the term pagan is not a derogatory term.

[SETHTHEUNWANTED1]

i don't worship any gods/goddeses anymore, i just cast spells and do rituals so i don't consider myself pagan

[BlueFireWitch]

There's atheistic Pagans as well. Where do you think the power of divination comes from, just curious?

[SETHTHEUNWANTED1]

i believe in god/goddess, i just don't think worshiping it is important

[BlueFireWitch]

I can understand that. Worship doesn't have to mean submisison. It can mean that you establish a working relationship with a diety that you aspire to be more like. IE if you want to be more cunning, you might want to establish a relationship with Hermes, But it's not necessary, you are correct about that.

[thuirthiawindsong]

My boyfriend worships Hermes, although he relates more to Hermes's mischievous streak.

[gandhara496]

I don't know if the maiden, mother, and crone symbolism was originally Celtic but I know that the number 3 was very sacred in the old Celtic cultures (Earth, Sea, and Sky), and that it was used for deity symbolism and worship. A really good historical example would be with the 3 Matres or Matronae (the 3 Matrons), a triune Gallic goddess or 3 special goddesses who worked together as household, fate, & mother deities....

[WellOfImbas]

Aye, I have never heard of it being Celtic either. Of course there were Tritinty Gods and Goddesses but the most comon thing is they were siblings. Lugh's dad Cian was part of a trinity, Brigid is considered a trinity by some and Brigid's sons are considered part of a trinity just to give a couple of examples.

[BlueFireWitch]

The idea was derrived from Celtic culture from what I have derrived, as for it being original, I couldn't attest to that.

[redbaron998]

I dont consider it demeaning at all myself

[WesternWhiteWolf]

I've never heard the word 'pagan' used perjoratively in modern times. I don't really see the problem with using the word to describe old polytheistic religions or religions derived from them (such as Wicca).

Honestly though, what other term could we use to decribe all these different religions?

[lobum]

I, personally identify myself as a pagan, and i don't see anything wrong with others calling me that. but, when i explain to christians what the term means, then i tell them that it isn't the same type of "pagan" that the bible refers to.

[WellOfImbas]

My only issue with "Pagan" is because people use it as a term to lump EVERYONE together and treat as if every path is the same which I completely disagree and find disugsting. I'm not saying I'm offended by the word but by how many people use it.

[BlueFireWitch]

Oh, I don't think we need to lump all traditions together to stand united. But I think we can recognize that we have similarities and still respect the diversity within our own community. I had someone tell me they despised me because I refered to the Greek Gods as Pagan. Well, I said, that's how I see them because I am Pagan and I worship the Greek Gods, but I wouldn't tell anyone else to call them that. So I felt the need to make a video. not a pwnage, just trying to clear the air.

[WellOfImbas]

I'm not trying to attack you...I actually like this video believe it or not. I actually think its one of your best and one of the few ones I really don't have much disagreement. I consider myself Druid first and Pagan second. See I'm conflicted on this issue because I both agree and disagree if that makes any sense.

[BlueFireWitch]

Oh, no, I didn't consider your comment an attack. This is why I hate comments, Sometimes when you write something, there's no inflection, so people can't imagine your tone.  I personally think of Pagan as subculture, but I don't think people should be held to it either.

[BlueFireWitch]

But yeah, there's big differences in our paths, for example. In my religion, there are 4 Pythagorean Elements, and in yours there are 3 Earth Sea and Sky, although there is still an emphasis on Fire, from what I have studied. What I find interesting is the dual emphasis from Greek to Celtic on the number 3. Don't you? For example, in my mythos 3 Furies, 3 Fates, etc. And in yours, many triple Goddesses, and the aspect of Maiden Mother and Crone was derrived from Celtic religious aspects.

[BlueFireWitch]

I'd be curious to know your imput.

[gandhara496]

I personally agree with WellofImbas on the "Pagan" term issue...

we shouldn't all be lumped together as if we're all on the same or very similar path to each other...