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83 Sixers vs 86 Celtics is an interesting matchup. Both dominated the postseason but I don't see the Sixers winning in a 7 game series. The '83 Sixers had an undersized frontline that lacked shot blocking & passing. Other than Andrew Toney, the Sixers didn't have a consistent shooter. the '86 Celtics have an edge inside & they are a much better shooting team, I don't see the Sixers beating the '86 Celtics in a 7 game series. And Marc Iavaroni was the starting PF for the sixers. lol
@TheGameGuysBlog ...rivalry. I want the lakers to win it always but I would love to have seen those two great teams go at it, I would love for us to beat them, but it was what it was, the 80's rivalry was always great anyways.
@TheGameGuysBlog ...but they were dealing with many injuries and they were beat up, almost everyone knew we were winning it all. like I've said I was disappointed because I love basketball as much as I love the lakers and I wanted to see those two all time great teams facing off against eachother, both healthy in their prime. then we beat them easily like almost everyone knew, celtics were never the same again and again everyone knew the rivalry was ending, at least for the time, the magic/bird.
@TheGameGuysBlog ...like mchale and so on, we had supportive cast playing good. I knew we were ready to beat the houston and we were able to go at it with the c's then I saw that sampson was declining along with that houston team, I knew we were in the finals. I saw the celtics team dealing with injuries, we cruised trough the playoffs, fresh for the finals, but then I was disappointed because the celtics dealt with very tough series, they went to the finals due to their great players efforts...
...against any team there. on our discussion I'll give you this, if the 96 bulls, had that team, maybe taking some subs off, not counting kukoc, and also still having grant, with rodman coming in for pippen and grant to play some d and rebound, or even playing sometimes grant at c and rodman at pf, they could beat the 86 c's.
...know. the 83 76ers, 86 c's, 87 and 00 lakers, 92 and 96 bulls, 89 pistons, 99 spurs, are the best in my opinion. I won't comment on teams before the 80's because I didn't see them though. but between those, it's very hard to tell, who would win it all, different matchups, players, rules and so on. I'm a lakers fan so I have to say the 87 lakers, even though I can admit that he could be differtent sometimes and go either way, against teams like the 86 c's or even the 92 bulls, all in all,...
@MrPims33 -- Okay, you're a Lakers fan. Good. I want to ask you this. The Lakers beat the C's in 85. they beat the C's in 87. What happened to the Lakers in 1986? I know they lost to Houston. Was that just a fluke series? Was there some sort of injury? Because when people say the 86 C's are the best, my question is - what happened to the Lakers in 86 - since the 86 season was sandwiched by Lakers Finals wins over Boston.
@TheGameGuysBlog start of the season I remember boston building that great team and just playing great, I was excited yet a bit reluctant of facing them in the finals, but I knew we could do it. then that houston team beat us, some people say it was just a fluke but that team was very good/great, they had a young hakeem playing great, ralph sampson playing the best he ever did, he never played that great again, then they had a good supporting cast. guys like robert reid and lewis lloyd, they...
@TheGameGuysBlog ...were good at defending the post and the perimeter, and had good perimeter offense and were just beasts on the post. truth is they played great and beat us fair and square. in 87 we moved green to the starting line up, he was playing great, rambis came off the bench providing toughness and good d, magic was beasting, same as worthy, kareem as always was doing his thing, cooper playing the best defense of his career, we acquired mychal thompson, to defend in the post guys...
What happened?Did you see the 86 Lakers? That team had lost a great F/C in MacAdoo got Mike McGee into a more active role that he couldn't fullfil added Lucas that didn't fit as well in the starting lineup although he had decent numbers and that team didn't have anyone in the 4 position that he could shoot cosnistently at the 4 position to match up with teams that had Twin Towers under the basket. Rambis and Kupchack were great bangers but not mid range shooters neither AC Green of the bench.
@greendynasty32 Many things changed a year later. Riley saw that Kareem coulnt play as match and be the center of atack. Magic took over the sxcoring load and EVERYONE ELSE stepped up their game, plus changes made to have scoring at the 4 position. Green improved to be good mid range shooter, Thompson was great shooter too playing with Kareem and Lakers had way more minutes with Worthy at the 4 and Cooper in the lineup and a backup plan bringing Bill Thompson off the bench
@greendynasty32 Many things changed a year later. Riley saw that Kareem coulnt play as match and be the center of atack. Magic took over the sxcoring load and EVERYONE ELSE stepped up their game, plus changes made to have scoring at the 4 position. Green improved to be good mid range shooter, Thompson was great shooter too playing with Kareem and Lakers had way more minutes with Worthy at the 4 and Cooper in the lineup and a backup plan bringing Bill Thompson off the bench
@greendynasty32 Thompson may get injured in the first round of the playoffs but he was excelent on the Lakers fast break and a great offensive rebound. That team run in every opportunity and from 85 to 89 they had a solid half court game as well that no Celtics or Bulls fan wants to hear about. The summer of 85 Bill Walton wanted a trade to the Lakers or Celtics. Jerry west wanted a medical report and C's didn't se he went there.
@greendynasty32 Thompson went on to be the final piece to a team that could compete with any great team in history because the could run they could play half court they could bang, they could rebound shoot and do this as a unit. That team was the most balanced team you could see on the offensive end and on rebounds and they had great team deffensive abilities. The 86 Celtics where a all time great team tha could run but selectively. Lakers 87 could do it all and have defferent sizes on thecourt
...against kareem, and kareem was a different animal than shaq, he was tall, he could hit from midrange, and yeah he had the skyhook, the most unstoppable move. the bulls could score over any team, but would that be enough to outscore and to outperform the 87 lakers? don't think so. damn, just from remembering that 83 76ers I get chills, crazy team, fo fo fo, moses, dr j, cheeks, toney and great depth. it's hard to tell, some all time great teams are hard to say who would win, and we'll never...
...good to bang inside and defend the post. then they had some above average players like sam vincent developed into a good player and carlisle had some weight and power to defend bigger guards, but whatever. overall worthy was not better than pippen, defensively, worthy was not better than pippen no, but offensively worthy was a bit better, if not the same, but worthy had magic, as well as everyother laker, to dish it to them. and rodman was too small to guard kareem, I mean, really too small..
...the pistons era, but he was better at sf or better when he played at sf, but he could def defend anyone and rebound like crazy, yet rodman was not even close to grant as an offensive player, offensively he was below average, at least in 96, and grant was a good defender also, not as good as rodman but he wasn't bad. all-in-all the c's bench > the bulls bench, the c's also had sichting who was a good role player at indiana, they had kite, who was a great insurance for the big guys, good...
was a great defender, he was many times on the defensive teams too. I'm not saying longley was bad, offensively he was good, defensively he was not that bad, yes, but he could've been the perfect mismatch for some teams (great teams not only in the post) to win games. and no doubt, I said kukoc could make the difference on some games, but it wouldn't be that much to win the series. I'm not underrating rodman, he was a great defender, one of the best ever, he was one of my favorite players since.
based on the stats, yes maybe, he also played less minutes due to injuries, but what he could bring defensively it's not measured, even offensively. meaning longley was a bit soft next to cartwright, and cartwright had more talent, at least defensively, even in 92. it would be harder for kukoc to deal with mchale than mchale with kukoc, mchale could score like crazy, he was just unstoppable in the post, no doubt kukoc could bring it to mchale from the perimeter on some given night, but mchale...
...wasn't there, they would be in trouble. now in 87 magic was better, worthy was better, they also had prime cooper, but yeah, kareem would be the main force there and they had nobody to guard him. main point is that 87 lakers and 86 c's could handle the 96 bulls, it would be tough and close but they would do it, even if in 7 games.
@MrPims33 -- Worthy wasn't better than Pippen. Not 1996 Scottie Pippen. Rodman can bang with Kareem. you'll say Kareem would shoot over Rodman. But Kareem could shoot over anyone. No one could stop the skyhook. So it wouldn't matter. Just have to make it hard on Kareem to get position. Jordan would get his.I think 87 Lakers vs. 96 Bulls would be closer. I'll still take the Bulls' defense. Basically my point is, the Bulls could score against any 80s team. then they have lockdown D.
...taking kerr and kukoc outta the equation, that bulls bench is very below average, and the whole bench is average at defense. cartwright and longley similar in production? again there you go only mentioning stats, cartwright could bang inside and play good solid d, longley ain't seeing cartwright, everybody knows that. 92 bulls is better. as far as the 87 lakers, I don't even wanna imagine longley having to deal with kareem lmao, jordan had a hard time guarding an aging magic, if pippen...
@MrPims33 -- I know what Bill Cartwight could do. I grew up in Chicago and watched all Bulls games in that era. I know what the players could do. Carwright could bang. What's bang? Longley could bang. He was a bigger body than Cartwright. Cartwright played pretty well vs. Ewing. But the argument isn't Cartwright's career vs. Longley';s career. Its 1992 Bill vs. 1996 Luc. and they were similar. Longley didn't stop the Bulls from winning 72 games and the NBA title.
@MrPims33 -- You don't want to imagine Longley dealign with Kareem. I don't either. But I got news for you. Longley played vs. Shaq. Longley played vs. Ewing. Longley played vs. Mourning. And guess what happened? The Bulls still won. Longley wasn't great by any means. But he didn't hurt the Bulls. And he had some skill offensively. He could hit a midrange shot off a MJ double team. He wasn't Will Purdue.
I got a friend who says the 1983 76ers are the best team ever. We go at it like you and me are doing Pims? I basically told him about our argument and asked him if the Sixers would beat the 86 C's. He said yes because Moses Malone wouldn't be stopped. Just wanted to get your opinion on 86 Cs vs. 83 Sixers.
You seem underrate Rodman a bit. You bring up his height. Yeah, he was shorter than Horace Grant or Kevin McHale. But that didn't stop Rodman from winning 7 straight rebounding titles. It didn't stop him from winning back-2-back defensive player of the year awards. Any of those taller guys you mentioned accomplish what Rodman did? No. I like Horace, but I'll take Rodman's elite D and rebounding instead of Horace's offense. We have MJ and Pip to pick up the scoring slack. Kukoc too.
I also think you underrate Kukoc a bit too. Kukoc could have easily been a 20ppg scorer but he had to defer to MJ and Pippen. Kukoc was also a clutch player. He had 4 game-winning shots his rookie year. One in the playoffs vs. New York. So Kukoc was a money player, even though he's not a hall of famer. I think you said something similar in another post. Kinda like Andrew Toney. Not a HOFer, but he was a money player
I also think you underrate Kukoc a bit too. Kukoc could have easily been a 20ppg scorer but he had to defer to MJ and Pippen. Kukoc was also a clutch player. He had 4 game-winning shots his rookie year. One in the playoffs vs. New York. So Kukoc was a money player, even though he's not a hall of famer. I think you said something similar in another post.
of kukoc, and everyone knows this. he may not played hall of fame status, but he played great for the time he could be there. yes, they had the 6th man of the year, just goes to show the state of the nba that year, kukoc was good, but not at defense, and on any other team he wouldn't win that award, but it was fair, he contributed good for that great team. yeah, rodman was a better defender than grant but he was smaller, he wasn't better by that much and offensive wise grant is years ahead....
kukoc would have some productivity offensive wise yes, with good shooting, now I don't even wanna think of kukoc trying to guard kukoc lmao, that would be ridiculous... see bird and mchale could guard kukoc, not the other way around, he would've been killed, I don't even want to imagine that, you're the worst d*ckrider ever. walton is statistically the worst 6th man ever? did you count the minutes? per36? plus stats don't mean that much like I've said. defensive wise he's million years ahead...
@MrPims33 -- per 36 minutes isn't real. What they did on the court was real. And based on the stats, Walton was the worst 6th man ever. McHale could not guard Kukoc. and Kukoc couldn't guard McHale. I agree. Toni had no D. Bir would be on Pippen. DJ on Jordan. Kukoc would be a mismatch. To quick for McHale. Kukoc could handle like a point and would break McHale down on the perimeter.
setup passes. kukoc would blow by them and could post too? don't make me laugh seriously, kukoc blowing by who? in the post? bird was a great help defender and had great defensive awereness and good post d, and mchale was a terrific post defender, with many selections to the nba defensive teams. kukoc wouldn't do sh*t in the post against them, and he wasn't that good at driving, plus the c's had parish, mchale and walton waiting below the basket, bulls had small rodman and longley lmao...
stats? forgot to mention the minutes and the blocks too? lmao, he barely played 19 minutes, and he was on a team where he didn't need to score much, even that way he scored much for his minutes, rebounded great, good assist number, not to forget the setup passes, he's the maybe the best passing center ever, 1,3 bpg too in those minutes. and stats ain't everything when comparing players, don't forget the intagibles, the great defense he played, great offensive awereness with the screens and...
and the 92 bulls were better than the 96 bulls, more athletic, better interior offense and defense, they had guys who could bang in the paint, and more depth too.
@MrPims33 -- no they weren't. Scottie Pippen was at his peak in 1996. Plain and simple. How did they have better interior defense?? Dennis Rodman led the league in rebounding and was on the all-defensive 1st team. Rodman was a better rebounder/defender than Grant. Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright's production was the same in 96 vs 92. Kukoc could post up to. And Jordan was always out best post player. So you're wrong there.
@MrPims33 -- As for depth, the 96 Bulls had the 6th man of the year in Toni Kukoc. so he was FAR better than anyone the 1992 Bulls brought off the bench. Kukoc, Kerr, Wennington, Brown, Caffey and Buechler basically, vs. Armstrong, King, Hodges, Levingston, Williams and Purdue. Pretty similar stat wise. 1992 Bulls bench had more big bodies. But I'll take Kukoc's ability to carry the team offensively and the mismatches he provides as a 6'11 lefty who could handle like a point.
... for the minutes he played, walton had great stats, great contribution to the offense and defense, and he could ignite the team. again let me repeat, bulls didn't have the all fronts offensive firepower, paint defense, size and depth to beat teams like the 86 celtics with their offensive coming from everywhere and every player, their good defense on both the perimeter and most importantly the paint, their size, their skill and their depth. 1987 lakers would also beat them.
@MrPims33 -- I agree for the minutes he played he had great stats. But my disagreement with you is when you say Bill Walton was a Hall of Famer in terms of the 86 Celtics. Bill Walton wasn't playing Hall of Fame basketball in 1986. He played well in his limited mins. but you say HOFer as if it was 1977 Bill Walton playing on the 86 Celtics. That was not the case.
I think the 1996 bulls are the best team ever and they beat the 1987 Lakers too. so no need for me to go through that.
... closer to the basket, all the no handchecking and restricted arc. yeah bill walton was so injuried that's why he couldn't play more, but he contributed like no other for the minutes he was there. you don't even know what he did, great offense, great d, why do you think people say he's one of the best 6th man ever? don't deny facts, bulls had no 6th man like walton. tony kukoc? yeah he was a good offensive player, now imagine him guarding bird or mchale lmao, ridiculous. bottom line is...
@MrPims33 -- He's not one of the best 6th men. Here's a fact, he's statistically the worst 6th man ever. Look it up the stats. bulls had no 6th man like Walton? They had Toni Kukoc who was a far better player in 1996 than Walton was in 1986. Imagine Bird or McHale trying to guard Kukoc? Kukoc would blow by them on the perimeter and he could post too.
@MrPims33 -- Here are some stats since you clearly have looked at them.
1985 6th man - Kevin McHale 19.8ppg, 9r, 1.8a
1986 6th man - Bill Walton 7.6ppg, 6.8r, 2.1a
1987 6th man - Ricky Pierce 19.5ppg, 3.4r, 1.8a
1996 6th man - Toni Kukoc 13.1ppg, 4r, 3.5s
If Bill walton put up those same numbers on the Atlanta Hawks or the San Diego Clippers, he doesn't win the award. Plain and simple. He got it because he played on the Celtics. If Walton doesn't play on the 86 C's, they still win the title.
...them lmao. that bulls team could guard the perimeter players like no other but who could guard the paint? that celtics team could be good defenders on the perimeter and also on the paint, along with great offensive firepower coming from everywhere. combination of size, skill, offense, defense, bunch of great players, depth, power, the bulls had no way of beating that, they never faced that kind of challenge in the 90's, under those soft rules, jordan getting superstar treatment, 3point line..
...then they had good offensive players like kukoc and kerr, a very average center, a pg who was a great sg but wasn't all that at pg, even though he fitted there and could also guard the perimeter, that team gotta'em trough a whole lot, but they couldn't handle those celtics. and as far as athleticism they wouldn't match up against teams like the showtime lakers, piston's bad boys or many others from the 80's, pippen, jordan and a 34 years old rodman are not enough for that status you give...
yeah it's all about defense, the 1986 are of the best all around defensive teams, the 1996 bulls are maybe the best perimeter defensive team ever, but who's gonna guard the paint against bigger, stronger and taller players, who have lots of skill? again, jordan, maybe the goat, pippen one of the best perimeter defenders ever, not the best like you make it out, rodman, great defender but was past his prime and was small for the pf position, even though he could guard anyone, to a certain extent..
was I comparing jordan to dj or parish? wait, so the only one who can be playing great at 32 is jordan? omg you take d*ckiding to a whole nother level, and rodman was 34 and harper 32 so... the 1996 are far more athletic than any team from the 80's? lmao, taking out jordan, who was not as athletic as he used to be, pippen, and rodman, who was also not as athletic as before, who they got? kukoc? longley? again you're just embarrassing yourself, I don't even need to do anything.
Pims. You never answered my questions about "having more Hall of Famers"
If having more hall of famers is the key to success, then how come the Celtics lost to the Lakers in 1987 and eventually the Pistons? How come they lost to the 76ers in 1982?
boston had 5 hall of famers, 5 guys scoring in double figures, along with two more scoring like 8ppg, many all stars and former all stars, many players who were on the first or second defensive teams, 6th man of the year, mvp, former mvps, finals mvp, former finals mvps, while playing with tougher rules against tougher competition. I mean, bird, mchale, parish, walton, dj, ainge, wedman, sichting, sam vincent, kite? bulls can't top that combination of size, skill and power. forget about that
@MrPims33 -- Again, don't need to rattle off the roster. I know who was on the team.
Former MVPs??? What the hell does that have to do with anything? we're talking about the 1986 Celtics. what the hell does Bill walton's MVP in 1977 have to do with it. And you call me an ignorant d*rider? LOL. You just throw junk out there with nothing to back it up.
did you even watched the 87 season? lakers cruised trough the western conference, celtics were full of injuries and they had a tough time trough the eastern conference, by the time they reached the finals, they had many injuries and beaten down players, everyone knows this, still that 87 lakers team is one of the best ever also, and they could've taked it to that 86 celtics, they would demolish the 96 bulls. Wilkins not a great defender? Cooper not nearly the caliber of defender pippen was?...
@MrPims33 -- don't give me BS about the Celtics being full of injuries in 1987. They made it back to the Finals and lost to the Lakers.
Wilkins and Cooper are not nearly the defender Pippen was. Period. Pippen is the greatest defensive SF of all-time. Maybe you should watch a Bulls game from the 90s. And yes, I watched the 87 season. Been watching the NBA since the 80s my friend.
...like the 87 lakers, who also can beat the 96 bulls. dj was a finals mvp, one of the best defensive guards and you don't put him in the hall of fame, again, you don't know what the f you're talking about. that celtics team had like 5 guys scoring in double figures, great defensive players who could play as a team. bulls couldn't handle their combination of size, skill and power. they don't have the team or the depth to handle it. jordan would kill it as always but that's it.
@MrPims33 -- Spare me the scoring numbers. the 80s was a higer scoring decade for basketball. Put the 1996 Bulls in the 1980s and they score just as much as La or Boston. Then then they would apply their world class defense on those teams. Which they woudln't handle. Defense baby, defense. Its not all about scoring.
so? jordan was 32 also. first of all I'm not a celtics fan, you're the fan/d*ckrider here. 1986 bill walton overrated? don't make me laugh, he averaged 7.6ppg, 6.8rpg, 2.1apg and 1.3bpg while only playing 19 minutes, plus he brought great defense and great offense by also passing the ball and creating alot of good screens, but you don't even know what you're talking about. why they didn't more? because some were old and some full of injuries and they faced much better competition than the bulls.
@MrPims33 -- Bill walton could only play that many minutes because he was so injured. He played well in limited time, but people that have a love affair with the 86 Celtics make it seem like he was in 1977 form. Please. If Bill Walton put up those same numbers on the Atlanta Hawks, no one talks about it. And he doesn't win 6th man of the year.
@MrPims33 -- Well Jordan is different because he was the GOAT. Don't compare him to DJ or Parish. Jordan was winning MVPs at 35 y/o. A whole different animal. A world class athlete. Athleticism. the 1996 Bulls are FAR more athletic than any team from the 80s. Sorry friend.
Oh, and since you love the opinion of the "experts" so much, remember the ESPN Who's #1 show? The 1996 Chicago Bulls were #1 for greatest NBA teams. And John Hollinger (do you consider him an expert?) He ranked the top Finals teams with his numbers and the 1996 Bulls were #1. 1987 Lakers #2, 1986 Celtics #3. I'll email you the link.
Now I couldn't care less what these shows or experts say. I don't need them to back me up. I just wanted to post that for you since you place so much stock on them.
Simple question Mr Pims. If having more Hall of Famers makes you a better team, then how come the 87 Celtics lost to the 87 Lakers. And why did the 1982 Celtics lose to the 1982 76ers?
you can't answer it because the "more HOFers makes you a better team" argument is a weak one that I've shot down several times with multiple examples.
I got a question for ya. If the C's are so great, how come they couldn't win it again? Why couldn't they beat the Lakers in 1987? Bird is better than Worthy. McHale has a big advantage over AC Green. A 33 y/o Parish should have got the better of a 39 y/o Kareem. Ainge and Scott are different types of players, but similar production. DJ vs. Magic, clearly Magic has the advantage. But how come the Celtics, and their "5 HOFers" couldn't overcome the Lakers and their 3 HOFers??
typical ignorant d*ckriding at its finest. keep thinking you're the man and know everything, and just ignore all the experts, players, analysts and so on that realize that the 96 are one of the best teams ever but not the best, just because they got the best record.
@MrPims33 --And you keep running to "experts" for your opinions? Sorry, I think for myself and have my own opinions.
you bring weak arguments to the table, I shoot them down, and you accuse me of "d*ckriding." Whatever you say man. go back and read some more Bill Simmons.
...mchale, parish, walton, add that to dj, another hall of famer, ainge, wedman, sichting, sam vincent and kite providing great insurance for that great frontcourt. the bulls never faced that type of competition and that's a fact. plus image, bird also protected by the refs, mchale and parish with no handchecking and add that to the ilegal defenses, plus bird and ainge with that 3 point line, and dj not being beat down on his way to the basket. the bulls don't stand a chance against
@MrPims33 -- I'm well aware of the 1986 Celtics roster, you don't need to rattle it off to me. I know who was on the team, and the Bulls are better.
If the Celtics are so great, why couldn't they do it again? Because they aren't as great as you think. The Bulls are the greatest defensive team ever with three of the greatest defenders ever. The greatest player of all-time and the greatest coach of all-time. D beat those 80s team. that's why the Pistons took over. then the Bulls. Defense.
@MrPims33 -- You keep saying illegal defense. Major changes to illegal defense weren't made until the early 2000s. Sure handchecking was taken out by then, but I got news for you, Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen all made all-defensive teams under the new rules AND the old rules. MJ and Rodman won defensive player of the year awards prior to any rule changes. So try again.
@MrPims33 -- 1986 Bill walton is overrated. But you Celtics fans have a love affair with him. What didn he average? 7.6ppg and 6.8 rebounds? Statistically the worst 6th man winner in the history of the award. DJ isn't a hall of famer in my opinion. He should be in the hall of very good. Not the hall of fame. So spare me the "we go more hall of famers" argument. It a simple way to look at things.
you talk about myths, these are facts that anyone who knows his bball know. nba by 1993 started to be worse in terms of competition, not saying there weren't great teams or players. the 80's had no weak teams like the raptors or the grizzlies and more great players were concentrated on one team. and if bird could drop 38 on pippen while he was full of injuries, old with a bad bad back, imagine what he would do in his prime. no way the bulls can take the size, strength and skill of bird...
@MrPims33 -- No they are not facts. they are opinions. It is your opinion that the NBA was stronger in the 1980s. That's not a fact, it's an opinion.
If the NBA was so great in the 80s, then how does a 30-win team (the 1986 Chicago Bulls) make the playoffs. Don't tell me how bad the Grizz and Raptors are when 30-win teams made the playoffs in the 80s. at least the Grizz and Raptors didn't make the playoffs.
@TheGameGuysBlog ...protected superstars. again see it clearly and stop d*ck riding, bulls probably have the best player but they certaintly don't have the best team. stop being ignorant with those posts. bird, mchale, parish, walton, and dj is not something you can play with.
@MrPims33 -- So if I don't agree with you I'm ignorant? Well I guess I'm ignorant because I would never agree with the sorry, weak arguments you make. I've shot down every lame 1986 Celtics talking point you've thrown at me. Sorry if that's all you got. Go watch some NBA classic videos and read a Bill Simmons column LOL.
@TheGameGuysBlog ...bird could kill anyone, athletic, great defenders, like cooper, wilkins, dr j, rodman, or pippen himself. plus in the post you gotta double team and he would dish it like he always did to some other hall of famer. the bulls bench can provide good offense but they would get killed on the defensive end. look the bulls never faced a team with 5 hall of famers, as good in depth like the 86 celtics. that team played with the 3point line where it should be, tough rules, no...
@MrPims33 -- the Celtics didn't have 5 guys playing at a hall of fame level. So stop trying to make it seem Bill Walton was playing in 1986 like he was in 1977. DJ and Parish were older. Not in their prime anymore. Bird and McHale were the only HOFers playing in their prime years. Parish was about what? 32? DJ the same?
@MrPims33 -- wilkins? As in Dominique Wilkins? Not a great defender. Sorry. Dr. J, Coop, not nearly the caliber of defender that Scottie Pippen was. Sorry.
@MrPims33 -- The rest of the Celtics. Oh no, Greg Kite on NBA 2K11, I'm so afraid. :) Feel free to download my Randy Brown and Jason Caffey from 2K share on the 360 to complete your 1996 Bulls roster. The greatest team of all-time.
@TheGameGuysBlog there goes to show you're just an ignorant d*ckrider, greg kite? what about bill walton? don't you see that those teams that had good centers lacked? a great team to back them up. bulls can't handle a frontcourt of bird, mchale, parish and walton coming off the bench, had that to another hall of famer in dj plus a good solid piece in ainge, also with the scoring power of wedman of the bench, scoring 3's when the 3point line was where it should be. look that celtics team has...
@TheGameGuysBlog ...3 hall of famers in their prime plus 2 more, you can't f with that. jordan is the only one that can really make a difference. rodman below the basket to grab all them rebound lets mchale kill him with his midrange, plus he got the size and wingspan to also kill him in the post, rodman was really a sf, parish vs longley is a lock for parish on both ends, pippen's slashing game wouldn't be just against bird but he also had mchale, the chief or walton waiting below the basket..
@MrPims33 -- Ah, the over-simplistic "we got more hall of famers" argument. I've had this before. You need to scroll back a few pages in the comments. the Celtics lost to the 76ers in the 1982 ECF. The Celtics had 4 HOFers and the 76ers had 1, Dr. J. the 76ers won the series. So riddle me this? How did the 76ers win with just 1 HOFer to the Celtics' 4????
@MrPims33 -- Don't get mad becaus e I'm shooting down your "valid" arguments. You're the one that completely ignored all the FACTS I posted about Bird vs. Pippen in the late 80's early 90s.
You were the one who was saying Bird "killed" Pippen. But I proved that wasn't the case. But you went all quite on that front.
Do get mad and start name calling. I didn't call you any names. Just shooting down the myths that people continue to throw out there. Like the NBA was somehow stronger in the 80s.
that pretty much sums it up. plus: "You need a dominant big man to get to the (NBA) Finals. Chicago did it. But they were an aberration" - Phill Jackson, regarding the 96 bulls.
What does that sum up? that the Bulls were the only team to be a dynasty without a dominant offensive big man. I know that already. So what does that prove?
The Bulls won titles in the greatest era of NBA centers. Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, O'Neal. All top 50 players off all-time. So if centers were the be-all-end-all, then why no beaty MJ and the Bullies??? Beacause MJ was the GOAT and the Bulls were the greatest teams of all-time.
The 1992 Chicago Bulls do not quite fit the criteria above, but they are a better team because they are very strong on #2 (BOTH Jordan + Pippen were more productive in 1992) and #3 (Horace Grant fills both of those roles). The Bulls also have a solid bench and an offensively capable center (Bill Cartwright, who made the All-Star team when he was a Knick), which makes the difference for the 1992 team.
@MrPims33 -- Pippen was not more productive in 1992 than 1996. Pippen was at his peak in 1996. that's what some people fail to understand. Scottie Pippen made the ALL-NBa First team 3 times in his career , 1994, 1995 and 1996. Pippen was at his peak in 1996. MJ could kill you inside and out. Rodman was the NBA's leading rebounder and made the all defensive 1st team with MJ and Pip. Kukoc was the 6th man and a matchup nightmare when MJ and Pip were on the court too.
...This list is easier said than done. The team who came the closest to matching this criterion in 1995-96 were the Seattle Supersonics (2, 3 & 4). The Sonics had a strong perimeter trio in Gary Payton, Hersey Hawkins and Detlef Shrempf, the rugged & athletic Shawn Kemp at power forward and a solid bench led by Nate Mcmillan & Sam Perkins. Unfortunately for the Sonics they did not have a dominant center to punish the Bulls inside & they lost the NBA Finals 4-2.
@MrPims33 -- You keep bringing up the dominant center as if it's that simple. the Bulls played the 1996 Sonics, and I'm glad you are smart enough to acknowledge how good of a team that was.
But before the Bulls played the Sonics in the Finals they went through Alonzo Mourning in the 1st round, Patrick Ewing in the 2nd round and Shaq in the ECF.
Just because the Bulls didn't faceoff with a great center in the Finals, doesn't mean they never faced one.
...OR you need a tough power forward who can tangle with Rodman to keep him occupied under the boards. Even better if your center is a dominant rebounder too. A solid bench that can counter the offense the Bulls get from Kukoc & Kerr, if the team has quick players/good defenders coming off the bench they will be able to bother these two (who are slow afoot) on defense.
Here are the four basic weapons a team would need to defeat the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls: A dominant center who can punish the Bulls & their mediocre center: Luc Longley on the inside. A perimeter trio who is capable of keeping it close against Jordan, Pippen & Harper. A power forward with a decent 20 foot jump shot to hit open shots Rodman will give him out there....
@MrPims33 - the how come the 1996 Magic couldn't beat them? Shaq - a dominant center. Grant - a power forward who can hit a 15 footer consistently and defend/rebound. Knew the Bulls and what they do obviously.
Penny Hardaway who had an inside out game at the point, and Nick Anderson/Dennis Scott to spread the floor and make you pay for doubling Shaq.
I can't post links, don't know why, but look it up, nba experts saying the 1986 celtics beat the 1996 bulls, reasons why the 1996 bulls wouldn't fair as well in the 80's, reasons why the 1986 celtics beat them, they all over the web, I can't post them here, search the links, if you want I can even send you.
What NBA experts? Boston homers like Bill Simmons and Bob Ryan? ha ha, spare me. I actually watch games, so I don't need to rely on another person's opinion on NBA basketball.
@MrPims33 -- Go ahead and emial me the link, But don't send me that lame-a** NBA.com poll from a few years ago where the "experts" picked the 86 Celtics 4-1 over the 96 Bulls. A biased joke of a poll that featured voters like Bob Ryan, Jack Ramsey, Red Auerbach and Steve Kerr. Celtics fans have sent that to me before. It's worthless.
...teams, I can judge it clearly. every basketball knowledgeable knows that the 86 can beat the 96 bulls. even dennis rodman said they wouldn't won 70 games in the 80's, look it up, and look that quote from mj because he said that the 92 bulls are better, they had grant at the 4, granted rodman was a great defender but he wasn't no pf. under 80's hard rules, no superstars protected, 3 point line not closer to the basket, them bulls can't take the 86 c's.
when bird can drop 38 with an old body full of injuries and with his back all f'ed up. imagine what would he do to pippen, bird could kill anyone, even the most athletic guys in the world, that's not even up for debate, of course pippen would give him trouble, that's god damn scottie pippen. yeah, they won against teams with great centers, but teams with a great sf, pf and a c, no. that frontcourt would kill them in the post. stop d*ckriding, I'm a lakers fan, 33 for kareem, I watched both...
I'm going to take the time and research Bird vs. Pippen in the late 80's/early 90s. Because C's fans always claim Bird "killed" Pippen. I just glanced at the game logs from 1989-1990 and that doesn't seem to be the case. So I'm going to look at their head to heads. Pip was a raw rookie in 87-88 so I'm not using that. Bird played only 6 games in 88-89, so I'm not using that either. So 89-90, 90-91 and 91-92. I'll post later.
like charles barkley, magic johnson and countless other said, when you don't have a good center at best, you can't be the best team ever, the 86 celtics got a better center on their bench the bulls strating one. plus remember this is basketball, size matters, if anything else, bulls don't got the size.
@MrPims33 -- Bulls had the defense and Jordan's Bulls won titles in an era of great centers. Ewing, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Mourning, Robinson. The Bulls beat all the teams with great centers. So I'm not buying that one.
also, the 92 bulls are better than the 96 ones, even mj said that. they had grant playing like a true all star, offensively and on d. still even the 92 bulls wouldn't beat the 86 celtics, that would be a closer and better series though imo.
plus it's a fact that the in the 90's the nba became weaker due to all the new teams coming in, influx of european players and the rules started to protect the offense, handchecking removed, harder to play tough physical d, 3 point line closer to the basket for some years, more protected superstars, mostly mj. 86 celtics faced better competition team-wise and harder rules. kids these days think they know everthing and d*ckride to the fullest. I was a big 90's bulls fan and that 96 bulls is...
@MrPims33 -- It's a myth that 80's NBA was somehow stronger. The 1986 Bulls won 30 games and made the playoffs in 86. The NBA in the 80s was top-heavy. That's why the Lakers and Celtics were always in the Finals with the exceptions of a few years. And until the Pistons - who brought elite defense to the game - arrived. You mention the influx of Euro players, that made the pool of player larger to support expansion teams.
...also provide some really strong minutes. I could see this going the distance but, if you had both teams at their best and everybody healthy, the celtics would take this. 96 bulls got probably the best player but 86 celtics got probably the best team.
...plus if he took him to the post with his height and wingspan, rodman, as good as his, would be in trouble. parish would eat up longley on both sides of the floor, no matchup there, plus they had walton coming off the bench providing some great minutes. johnson would contain mj to a certain extent, of course no one could stop him, he would still get his but it wouldn't be enough for the team to win. harper, kukoc and kerr could be a problem for the c's but ainge, wedman and sichting could...
86 celtics would most def beat the 96 bulls in a 7 games series. it's all about matchups, no way the bulls could contain bird, mchale, parish and walton of the bench, they don't got the size. bird killed pippen in the early 90's when he was old and full of injuries not mention he would always kill rodman when he was played at sf, pippen would have his hands full on d so he wouldn't be a major factor on offense, mchale could hit from midrange if rodman sagged off of him to grab all the rebounds..
@MrPims33 - The Bulls would contain Bird with the greatest defensive SF of all time, Scottie Pippen. Bird would get his, but Pippen would make him work on both ends of the floor because he's a superior athlete. And why is it Celtics fans always say Bird killed Pippen early on. This is 1996 Bulls. 1996 Pippen. So that fact that Bird "killed" Pippen in 1989 or 1990 is irrelevant.
96 Bulls faced tougher competition than 86 Celts did in their playoff run. 96 Heat>>>86 Bulls (96 Heat were as talented as a 2 seed but they didn;t assemble until trade deadline which is why they were 8 seed). RD 2 96 Knicks>86 Hawks (96 Knicks=same team that should have won 94 Title). 96 Magic>>>>>>86 Bucks (no brainer there--86 Bucks had a bunch of drug users on the team). 96 Sonics>86 Rockets (Hakeem not in peak yet, GP and Detlef would own the inferior Rocket guards).
@JZ2001JC I don't see a big difference in the competition they faced in the playoffs. In 1986, The Bulls would have been higher than a #8 seed if MJ played the whole season, the Hawks won 50 games that year & Dominique Wilkins finished 2nd in the MVP voting behind Bird, The Bucks were very good winning 57 games & having a +9.0 point differential, & the Rockets were a very dangerous team that had a scary good frontline with Hakeem/Sampson & beat the showtime Lakers in the WCF.
@raiderfan14943. Even if MJ played Bulls in 86 only win maybe 5-7 more games because outside of MJ they SUCKED big time (Orlando Woolridge your second best player---nuff said). HAwks were a one man team outside of Dominique and would have gotten owned by 96 Knicks. I already hit the CONF FInals OPP. Rockets only beat Lakers because Lakers were not 100% and it was a fluke as well. Sidney Moncref LOL You kidding me. Gary Payton with the flu would school him.
@JZ2001JC I can play it your way too. The Bulls beat an old Knicks team that won only 47 games, they beat the Orlando Magic, but Horace Grant was injured & they dropped 2 straight games vs the Sonics & Jordan & Pippen played below their standards. And I didn't even mention they won 72 games during an expansion year when the NBA added 2 teams.
@raiderfan14943. All your points are so failed. Knicks would have won more than 47 games if moron Don Nelson didn;t coach them earlier in season. Even without Horace GRant the Magic were still better than the 86 Bucks and their druggies. Expansion yr means nothing, so thats two bottom teams which the NBA has every yr. Heck those expansion teams probably beat the 86 Bulls. ANd Bulls led SOnics 3-0 while Celts never led lesser ROckets 3-0.
@JZ2001JC The Knicks were 34-22 with Nelson & 13-10 with Van Gundy, their record was actually better with Nelson, proved wrong again. And again you continue to underrated the '86 Bucks and calling them "drug addicts", but you completely ignore the fact that they won 57 games & had a +9.0 point differential. And who cares if the The Bulls had a 3-0 lead over the Sonics, the series ended 4-2, same as the Celtics-Rockets series,
@raiderfan14943. Give it up man because you have failed in all your attempts. The 96 Bulls won more games in a tougher and better NBA yr than the 86 Celtics. If they played each other the 96 Bulls were just way more athletic. The league was 100 times more athletic in 96 than it was in 86 so if a pathetic 30 win Bulls team can AVG. 11 PPG in a series vs the 86 Celts than what would the way more athletic teams of 96 do to them? Too fast too strong for those 86 Celts to handle.
@raiderfan14943. MJ and Pippen played below their standards in those two straight losses to Seattle because the SOnics played great. AGain 86 SOnics>86 Rockets.
@JZ2001JC God, you are such a homer. It wasn't only in the 2 straight losses that MJ/Pippen underperformed. In the game 6 clincher MJ shot 26% from the floor, Pippen shot 41%. In game 3 Pippen shot 36%. In game 2 MJ shot 41%& in Game 1 Pippen shot 33%. And yes, that Sonics team was good, but the Rockets were a very dangerous team & they had a better front court than the Sonics.
@raiderfan14943. I didn't read anything you wrote because you have said nothing but lies. THe 96 Bulls are too much defensively and too athletic for the 86 Celts to even have a chance at and the 96 Bulls are deeper. 1996 NBA was tougher than the No defense 1986. I already mentioned the Bulls played tougher teams. I WIN YOU LOSE. Don't respond back because your on block and being ignored (I am not reading it. Have a nice life because your a troll.
@JZ2001JC You're mad because I exposed all of you lies. You said the Bulls-Celtics series in 86 was close and I showed you it wasn't. You said The Knicks would have won 50+ in 96 without Don Nelson & I showed you that they were pretty much the same team with JVG. You said MJ/Pippen only played below their standards in the '96 Finals in their 2 losses, & I showed you that wasn't the case. You also said the Rockets beat the Lakers in 1986 because the Lakers were injured, again MORE LIES.
Gameguy, I think Raiderfan should be blocked from this video for telling lies and thinking the 86 Celts are better than 96 Bulls. 86 Bulls were in every game and scored at will vs 86 Celts so obviously 96 Bulls would have got whatever they wanted offense-wise and their athleticism would overwhelm the Celtics when playing Defense vs them. OWNED!
@JZ2001JC block me for telling lies? The only person who is lying is you. You say the Bulls were in every game vs the Celtics in '86, that is a flat out LIE! The Bulls lost game 1 by 19 points & game 3 by 18 points. Again, do your homework.
@raiderfan14943. Those games were closer than what the scores indicated. At certain pts of those games the SUCKY 86 Bulls were in striking distance but eventually a team with one young star and a bunch of NBDL players (if 80s had an NBDL) should have no shot against the self proclaimed "greatest team ever". May I also add 96 Bulls faced tougher competition in their title run. LOL Celts faced freakin Bucks in East Finals---LMFAO give me a break.
@JZ2001JC No, The Celtics won by 19 & 18 POINTS how can the games be closer than the score indicated? I've seen games 1 & 3 & it was not close at all. And the Bucks were a VERY good team throughout the 80's, they were led by Sidney Moncrief, in 1986 they won 57 games and had a point differential of +9.0 Why are you laughing?
@raiderfan14943. And the Bulls faced Orlando with Shaq and Penny (If Penny don;t get injuries he is one of greatest players ever like Shaq is). Of course Bucks won 57 games in a watered down league. Magic won 60 in a tougher league. And lol 86 Bulls still AVG. 113 PPG and I will laugh all I want. One more thing 72 wins in a tougher yr is greater than 67 wins in a lesser yr.
I haven't even mentioned MJ much in these debates - hard to believe. Which 6 foot 4 guard gets eatin' up by the GOAT? Either way, it's a long day for the '86 C's. MJ had his fadeway perfected by then. DJ and Ainge wouldn't stand a chance. Thus MJ would have to be doubled constantly. Opening up the floor for everyone else. If Kerr is in for Harper, are you gonna leave Kerr wide open to double MJ? The Jazz found out what happens when you do that in Game 6 of the 1997 NBA Finals.
Bottom line 96 Bulls could get whatever they want against Celts D as 86 Bulls were able to and MJ is much better player in 96, has better supporting cast and greater athletes, and better Defense by far. Defense wins games and Titles and 96 Bulls Defense is much better than 86 Celts Defense. Also, athletes in NBA much greater in mid 90s than mid 80s so 96 Bulls Athleticness and speed is too much for 86 celts (speed kills). Mchale never shut down Nique which is why he matched Bird in PO scoring.
@JZ2001JC. What I mean is the arguement of McHale matching up with Dominique is useless---see Dominique nearly match Bird's scoring output in those playoff series they had (when both went for about 40 pts each). Like I said watching the Bulls-Celts tapes from 1986 playoffs Orlando Woolridge isod McHale in the post in those games and had a lot of success. Yes sucky Orlando Woolridge.
And Larry Bird never scorched Scottie Pippen. Okay late 80s when Scottie barely got into the lineup and was not very smart player yet, LArry schooled him with tough shooting. Now Pippen in 96 is an athletic freak at his athletic peak and basketball peak and is a much smarter player obviously. Heck Pippen at end of career put the clamps on a 20 yr old Kobe in those playoff matchups 2000, 2001 Blazers vs Lakers and Kobe is much more rounded of a player and better athlete than Bird.
@JZ2001JC -- Right. That what Celtics fans fail to understand. Scottie Pippen in 1996 was at his peak, and is a bad matchup for Larry Bird both offensively and defensively. Scottie Pippen made the all-NBA 1st team 3 times in his career, 1994, 1995 and 1996. He was also on the all-defensive 1st team those years, and many others. So Pip was at his peak in 1996. Bird would have a hard time guarding him due to Pip's strengths, ball handling and slashing.
@TheGameGuysBlog. And as great of an NBA household name Larry Bird is, He sucked balls on Defense. And no people I don;t want to hear about that stupid steal against the Pistons that one playoff game, which was more attributed to a sucky pass by Isiah Thomas. Bird couldn't guard anyone as he was freakin slow and unathletic.
@raiderfan14943. Bird was in his prime in early 90s and Pippen was not even developed yet. Also I know Woolrdige sucked but if you actually watched the games there were segments were he isoed the great Mchale and had his way. Also the 96 Bulls would have AVG. 120 PPG if they played in the Defensively weak 1985-86. Teams could score in 96 but Defenses were superior. And 1987 MJ still scored a lot vs Celts via FTs and shot low since he took a lot since rest of his team sucked balls.
@raiderfan14943. LOL at you thinking Pippen was even close to being in his prime in early 90s (1990 Bird was in his prime--really it was late 1991 when he got a "hurt back"). LOL at you thinking an unathletic no Defensive playing 86 Celtics could beat a much superior Athletic and better Defensively 96 Bulls. For crying out loud 86 Bulls with only one good player socred at will against 86 Celts. Obviously 96 Buls would do even more.
I can't imagine that Bulls team even dreaming up a way to defend Boston. Parish with his 10-foot jumpers would eat Longley and Wennington alive. You'd almost have to put Rodman on him. McHale would just kill them offensively, especially if Kukoc was his match-up. And don't forget, Kevin used to guard guys like Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins. Toni Kukoc wouldn't scare him a bit. Harper was such a non-entity offensively, you could almost put Bird on him. Celtics in 6.
@captainvaritek -- Ah, you Celtics fans slay me. You make it seem like these players couldn't be stopped, yet they never won back-to-back-titles, so they were stopped several times apparently. The 86 celtics gave up 113 ppg to the 1986 Bulls. What would the 1996 Bulls do to them? And since the 1996 Bulls are the greatest defensive team ever, they would slow Boston down. 1996 Bulls in 6 games. they have home court since they won an NBA record 72 games.
Oh, and more more matchup that never seems to come up in this 96 Bulls vs. 86 Celtics debate... Phil Jackson vs. K.C. Jones. Phil would coach circles around ole K.C..
@TheGameGuysBlog Well it wasn't Phil's coaching that won that series. If Perkins didn't get hurt who knows what might of happened. The Celtics didn't need a great coach considering how intelligent they were. 6 players from the '86 Celtics actually went on to be head coaches in the NBA: McHale, Bird, Ainge, Vincent, Carlisle, & DJ coached a few games.
@raiderfan14943 -- I forgot DJ coached the Clippers. I'm sure he did to. Stop trying to dismiss Phil as a coach. Phil was very important to the Bulls and Lakers dynasties. Who knows, if the C's had a great coach like Phil, maybe they would have actually won back-to-back titles.
@TheGameGuysBlog. Lets not also forget if the NBA had the shoot 3 FTs when being fouled behind the FT line in 1986 like they did from mid-90s to current then the 30 win 1986 Bulls win Game 2 over the "Greatest Team Ever" 1986 Celts; MJ was fouled shooting a 3 pter at buzzer of 2nd OT with Bulls down by 2--and with the way he performed that day he obviously would have made that 3rd FT for the win and we don;t have this arguement because losing to a 30 win team at home in playoffs, LOL.
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sparkle24ish 6 months ago
this game is fuckin stupid man no offense lols, but 86 celts would assrape this team.
and larry was 1000000 x better than this game make him look.....doesnt even freakin look like him either lols
ry3304 8 months ago
@ry3304 yeah the offense on this game isn't as good as NBA Live '10 but these graphics are better and you get to play as Jordan.
MIchael23Jordan84 7 months ago
When McHale is fouled, he needs to say "OH GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY!!" Then, he needs go under the basket, towel off and throw the towel at the ball boy.
MattArchives 9 months ago
what view
jkboy200 1 year ago
larry bird's shot was mad ugly but it was nice as hell lol
drunkenguy416 1 year ago
shit how do you get the view like that ?
MikeLovesTacosXD 1 year ago
some one shot me i am so mad that no one will choose the new bulls of 2010-2011 omg
boeing4100 1 year ago
83 Sixers vs 86 Celtics is an interesting matchup. Both dominated the postseason but I don't see the Sixers winning in a 7 game series. The '83 Sixers had an undersized frontline that lacked shot blocking & passing. Other than Andrew Toney, the Sixers didn't have a consistent shooter. the '86 Celtics have an edge inside & they are a much better shooting team, I don't see the Sixers beating the '86 Celtics in a 7 game series. And Marc Iavaroni was the starting PF for the sixers. lol
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...rivalry. I want the lakers to win it always but I would love to have seen those two great teams go at it, I would love for us to beat them, but it was what it was, the 80's rivalry was always great anyways.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...but they were dealing with many injuries and they were beat up, almost everyone knew we were winning it all. like I've said I was disappointed because I love basketball as much as I love the lakers and I wanted to see those two all time great teams facing off against eachother, both healthy in their prime. then we beat them easily like almost everyone knew, celtics were never the same again and again everyone knew the rivalry was ending, at least for the time, the magic/bird.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...like mchale and so on, we had supportive cast playing good. I knew we were ready to beat the houston and we were able to go at it with the c's then I saw that sampson was declining along with that houston team, I knew we were in the finals. I saw the celtics team dealing with injuries, we cruised trough the playoffs, fresh for the finals, but then I was disappointed because the celtics dealt with very tough series, they went to the finals due to their great players efforts...
MrPims33 1 year ago
...against any team there. on our discussion I'll give you this, if the 96 bulls, had that team, maybe taking some subs off, not counting kukoc, and also still having grant, with rodman coming in for pippen and grant to play some d and rebound, or even playing sometimes grant at c and rodman at pf, they could beat the 86 c's.
MrPims33 1 year ago
...know. the 83 76ers, 86 c's, 87 and 00 lakers, 92 and 96 bulls, 89 pistons, 99 spurs, are the best in my opinion. I won't comment on teams before the 80's because I didn't see them though. but between those, it's very hard to tell, who would win it all, different matchups, players, rules and so on. I'm a lakers fan so I have to say the 87 lakers, even though I can admit that he could be differtent sometimes and go either way, against teams like the 86 c's or even the 92 bulls, all in all,...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Okay, you're a Lakers fan. Good. I want to ask you this. The Lakers beat the C's in 85. they beat the C's in 87. What happened to the Lakers in 1986? I know they lost to Houston. Was that just a fluke series? Was there some sort of injury? Because when people say the 86 C's are the best, my question is - what happened to the Lakers in 86 - since the 86 season was sandwiched by Lakers Finals wins over Boston.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog start of the season I remember boston building that great team and just playing great, I was excited yet a bit reluctant of facing them in the finals, but I knew we could do it. then that houston team beat us, some people say it was just a fluke but that team was very good/great, they had a young hakeem playing great, ralph sampson playing the best he ever did, he never played that great again, then they had a good supporting cast. guys like robert reid and lewis lloyd, they...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...were good at defending the post and the perimeter, and had good perimeter offense and were just beasts on the post. truth is they played great and beat us fair and square. in 87 we moved green to the starting line up, he was playing great, rambis came off the bench providing toughness and good d, magic was beasting, same as worthy, kareem as always was doing his thing, cooper playing the best defense of his career, we acquired mychal thompson, to defend in the post guys...
MrPims33 1 year ago
What happened?Did you see the 86 Lakers? That team had lost a great F/C in MacAdoo got Mike McGee into a more active role that he couldn't fullfil added Lucas that didn't fit as well in the starting lineup although he had decent numbers and that team didn't have anyone in the 4 position that he could shoot cosnistently at the 4 position to match up with teams that had Twin Towers under the basket. Rambis and Kupchack were great bangers but not mid range shooters neither AC Green of the bench.
greendynasty32 3 weeks ago
@greendynasty32 Many things changed a year later. Riley saw that Kareem coulnt play as match and be the center of atack. Magic took over the sxcoring load and EVERYONE ELSE stepped up their game, plus changes made to have scoring at the 4 position. Green improved to be good mid range shooter, Thompson was great shooter too playing with Kareem and Lakers had way more minutes with Worthy at the 4 and Cooper in the lineup and a backup plan bringing Bill Thompson off the bench
greendynasty32 3 weeks ago
@greendynasty32 Many things changed a year later. Riley saw that Kareem coulnt play as match and be the center of atack. Magic took over the sxcoring load and EVERYONE ELSE stepped up their game, plus changes made to have scoring at the 4 position. Green improved to be good mid range shooter, Thompson was great shooter too playing with Kareem and Lakers had way more minutes with Worthy at the 4 and Cooper in the lineup and a backup plan bringing Bill Thompson off the bench
greendynasty32 3 weeks ago
@greendynasty32 Thompson may get injured in the first round of the playoffs but he was excelent on the Lakers fast break and a great offensive rebound. That team run in every opportunity and from 85 to 89 they had a solid half court game as well that no Celtics or Bulls fan wants to hear about. The summer of 85 Bill Walton wanted a trade to the Lakers or Celtics. Jerry west wanted a medical report and C's didn't se he went there.
greendynasty32 3 weeks ago
@greendynasty32 Thompson went on to be the final piece to a team that could compete with any great team in history because the could run they could play half court they could bang, they could rebound shoot and do this as a unit. That team was the most balanced team you could see on the offensive end and on rebounds and they had great team deffensive abilities. The 86 Celtics where a all time great team tha could run but selectively. Lakers 87 could do it all and have defferent sizes on thecourt
greendynasty32 3 weeks ago
...against kareem, and kareem was a different animal than shaq, he was tall, he could hit from midrange, and yeah he had the skyhook, the most unstoppable move. the bulls could score over any team, but would that be enough to outscore and to outperform the 87 lakers? don't think so. damn, just from remembering that 83 76ers I get chills, crazy team, fo fo fo, moses, dr j, cheeks, toney and great depth. it's hard to tell, some all time great teams are hard to say who would win, and we'll never...
MrPims33 1 year ago
...good to bang inside and defend the post. then they had some above average players like sam vincent developed into a good player and carlisle had some weight and power to defend bigger guards, but whatever. overall worthy was not better than pippen, defensively, worthy was not better than pippen no, but offensively worthy was a bit better, if not the same, but worthy had magic, as well as everyother laker, to dish it to them. and rodman was too small to guard kareem, I mean, really too small..
MrPims33 1 year ago
...the pistons era, but he was better at sf or better when he played at sf, but he could def defend anyone and rebound like crazy, yet rodman was not even close to grant as an offensive player, offensively he was below average, at least in 96, and grant was a good defender also, not as good as rodman but he wasn't bad. all-in-all the c's bench > the bulls bench, the c's also had sichting who was a good role player at indiana, they had kite, who was a great insurance for the big guys, good...
MrPims33 1 year ago
was a great defender, he was many times on the defensive teams too. I'm not saying longley was bad, offensively he was good, defensively he was not that bad, yes, but he could've been the perfect mismatch for some teams (great teams not only in the post) to win games. and no doubt, I said kukoc could make the difference on some games, but it wouldn't be that much to win the series. I'm not underrating rodman, he was a great defender, one of the best ever, he was one of my favorite players since.
MrPims33 1 year ago
based on the stats, yes maybe, he also played less minutes due to injuries, but what he could bring defensively it's not measured, even offensively. meaning longley was a bit soft next to cartwright, and cartwright had more talent, at least defensively, even in 92. it would be harder for kukoc to deal with mchale than mchale with kukoc, mchale could score like crazy, he was just unstoppable in the post, no doubt kukoc could bring it to mchale from the perimeter on some given night, but mchale...
MrPims33 1 year ago
...wasn't there, they would be in trouble. now in 87 magic was better, worthy was better, they also had prime cooper, but yeah, kareem would be the main force there and they had nobody to guard him. main point is that 87 lakers and 86 c's could handle the 96 bulls, it would be tough and close but they would do it, even if in 7 games.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Worthy wasn't better than Pippen. Not 1996 Scottie Pippen. Rodman can bang with Kareem. you'll say Kareem would shoot over Rodman. But Kareem could shoot over anyone. No one could stop the skyhook. So it wouldn't matter. Just have to make it hard on Kareem to get position. Jordan would get his.I think 87 Lakers vs. 96 Bulls would be closer. I'll still take the Bulls' defense. Basically my point is, the Bulls could score against any 80s team. then they have lockdown D.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...taking kerr and kukoc outta the equation, that bulls bench is very below average, and the whole bench is average at defense. cartwright and longley similar in production? again there you go only mentioning stats, cartwright could bang inside and play good solid d, longley ain't seeing cartwright, everybody knows that. 92 bulls is better. as far as the 87 lakers, I don't even wanna imagine longley having to deal with kareem lmao, jordan had a hard time guarding an aging magic, if pippen...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- I know what Bill Cartwight could do. I grew up in Chicago and watched all Bulls games in that era. I know what the players could do. Carwright could bang. What's bang? Longley could bang. He was a bigger body than Cartwright. Cartwright played pretty well vs. Ewing. But the argument isn't Cartwright's career vs. Longley';s career. Its 1992 Bill vs. 1996 Luc. and they were similar. Longley didn't stop the Bulls from winning 72 games and the NBA title.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- You don't want to imagine Longley dealign with Kareem. I don't either. But I got news for you. Longley played vs. Shaq. Longley played vs. Ewing. Longley played vs. Mourning. And guess what happened? The Bulls still won. Longley wasn't great by any means. But he didn't hurt the Bulls. And he had some skill offensively. He could hit a midrange shot off a MJ double team. He wasn't Will Purdue.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
I got a friend who says the 1983 76ers are the best team ever. We go at it like you and me are doing Pims? I basically told him about our argument and asked him if the Sixers would beat the 86 C's. He said yes because Moses Malone wouldn't be stopped. Just wanted to get your opinion on 86 Cs vs. 83 Sixers.
I would take 86 C's personally.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- "taking kerr and kukoc outta the equation, that bulls bench is very below average"
Well no kidding. They were the two best players off the bench LOL.
If we took Walton and Scott Wedman off the 86 C's bench then they don't look too hot either.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
You seem underrate Rodman a bit. You bring up his height. Yeah, he was shorter than Horace Grant or Kevin McHale. But that didn't stop Rodman from winning 7 straight rebounding titles. It didn't stop him from winning back-2-back defensive player of the year awards. Any of those taller guys you mentioned accomplish what Rodman did? No. I like Horace, but I'll take Rodman's elite D and rebounding instead of Horace's offense. We have MJ and Pip to pick up the scoring slack. Kukoc too.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
I also think you underrate Kukoc a bit too. Kukoc could have easily been a 20ppg scorer but he had to defer to MJ and Pippen. Kukoc was also a clutch player. He had 4 game-winning shots his rookie year. One in the playoffs vs. New York. So Kukoc was a money player, even though he's not a hall of famer. I think you said something similar in another post. Kinda like Andrew Toney. Not a HOFer, but he was a money player
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
I also think you underrate Kukoc a bit too. Kukoc could have easily been a 20ppg scorer but he had to defer to MJ and Pippen. Kukoc was also a clutch player. He had 4 game-winning shots his rookie year. One in the playoffs vs. New York. So Kukoc was a money player, even though he's not a hall of famer. I think you said something similar in another post.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago 4
of kukoc, and everyone knows this. he may not played hall of fame status, but he played great for the time he could be there. yes, they had the 6th man of the year, just goes to show the state of the nba that year, kukoc was good, but not at defense, and on any other team he wouldn't win that award, but it was fair, he contributed good for that great team. yeah, rodman was a better defender than grant but he was smaller, he wasn't better by that much and offensive wise grant is years ahead....
MrPims33 1 year ago
kukoc would have some productivity offensive wise yes, with good shooting, now I don't even wanna think of kukoc trying to guard kukoc lmao, that would be ridiculous... see bird and mchale could guard kukoc, not the other way around, he would've been killed, I don't even want to imagine that, you're the worst d*ckrider ever. walton is statistically the worst 6th man ever? did you count the minutes? per36? plus stats don't mean that much like I've said. defensive wise he's million years ahead...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- per 36 minutes isn't real. What they did on the court was real. And based on the stats, Walton was the worst 6th man ever. McHale could not guard Kukoc. and Kukoc couldn't guard McHale. I agree. Toni had no D. Bir would be on Pippen. DJ on Jordan. Kukoc would be a mismatch. To quick for McHale. Kukoc could handle like a point and would break McHale down on the perimeter.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
setup passes. kukoc would blow by them and could post too? don't make me laugh seriously, kukoc blowing by who? in the post? bird was a great help defender and had great defensive awereness and good post d, and mchale was a terrific post defender, with many selections to the nba defensive teams. kukoc wouldn't do sh*t in the post against them, and he wasn't that good at driving, plus the c's had parish, mchale and walton waiting below the basket, bulls had small rodman and longley lmao...
MrPims33 1 year ago
stats? forgot to mention the minutes and the blocks too? lmao, he barely played 19 minutes, and he was on a team where he didn't need to score much, even that way he scored much for his minutes, rebounded great, good assist number, not to forget the setup passes, he's the maybe the best passing center ever, 1,3 bpg too in those minutes. and stats ain't everything when comparing players, don't forget the intagibles, the great defense he played, great offensive awereness with the screens and...
MrPims33 1 year ago
and the 92 bulls were better than the 96 bulls, more athletic, better interior offense and defense, they had guys who could bang in the paint, and more depth too.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- no they weren't. Scottie Pippen was at his peak in 1996. Plain and simple. How did they have better interior defense?? Dennis Rodman led the league in rebounding and was on the all-defensive 1st team. Rodman was a better rebounder/defender than Grant. Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright's production was the same in 96 vs 92. Kukoc could post up to. And Jordan was always out best post player. So you're wrong there.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- As for depth, the 96 Bulls had the 6th man of the year in Toni Kukoc. so he was FAR better than anyone the 1992 Bulls brought off the bench. Kukoc, Kerr, Wennington, Brown, Caffey and Buechler basically, vs. Armstrong, King, Hodges, Levingston, Williams and Purdue. Pretty similar stat wise. 1992 Bulls bench had more big bodies. But I'll take Kukoc's ability to carry the team offensively and the mismatches he provides as a 6'11 lefty who could handle like a point.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
... for the minutes he played, walton had great stats, great contribution to the offense and defense, and he could ignite the team. again let me repeat, bulls didn't have the all fronts offensive firepower, paint defense, size and depth to beat teams like the 86 celtics with their offensive coming from everywhere and every player, their good defense on both the perimeter and most importantly the paint, their size, their skill and their depth. 1987 lakers would also beat them.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- I agree for the minutes he played he had great stats. But my disagreement with you is when you say Bill Walton was a Hall of Famer in terms of the 86 Celtics. Bill Walton wasn't playing Hall of Fame basketball in 1986. He played well in his limited mins. but you say HOFer as if it was 1977 Bill Walton playing on the 86 Celtics. That was not the case.
I think the 1996 bulls are the best team ever and they beat the 1987 Lakers too. so no need for me to go through that.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
... closer to the basket, all the no handchecking and restricted arc. yeah bill walton was so injuried that's why he couldn't play more, but he contributed like no other for the minutes he was there. you don't even know what he did, great offense, great d, why do you think people say he's one of the best 6th man ever? don't deny facts, bulls had no 6th man like walton. tony kukoc? yeah he was a good offensive player, now imagine him guarding bird or mchale lmao, ridiculous. bottom line is...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- He's not one of the best 6th men. Here's a fact, he's statistically the worst 6th man ever. Look it up the stats. bulls had no 6th man like Walton? They had Toni Kukoc who was a far better player in 1996 than Walton was in 1986. Imagine Bird or McHale trying to guard Kukoc? Kukoc would blow by them on the perimeter and he could post too.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Here are some stats since you clearly have looked at them.
1985 6th man - Kevin McHale 19.8ppg, 9r, 1.8a
1986 6th man - Bill Walton 7.6ppg, 6.8r, 2.1a
1987 6th man - Ricky Pierce 19.5ppg, 3.4r, 1.8a
1996 6th man - Toni Kukoc 13.1ppg, 4r, 3.5s
If Bill walton put up those same numbers on the Atlanta Hawks or the San Diego Clippers, he doesn't win the award. Plain and simple. He got it because he played on the Celtics. If Walton doesn't play on the 86 C's, they still win the title.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...them lmao. that bulls team could guard the perimeter players like no other but who could guard the paint? that celtics team could be good defenders on the perimeter and also on the paint, along with great offensive firepower coming from everywhere. combination of size, skill, offense, defense, bunch of great players, depth, power, the bulls had no way of beating that, they never faced that kind of challenge in the 90's, under those soft rules, jordan getting superstar treatment, 3point line..
MrPims33 1 year ago
...then they had good offensive players like kukoc and kerr, a very average center, a pg who was a great sg but wasn't all that at pg, even though he fitted there and could also guard the perimeter, that team gotta'em trough a whole lot, but they couldn't handle those celtics. and as far as athleticism they wouldn't match up against teams like the showtime lakers, piston's bad boys or many others from the 80's, pippen, jordan and a 34 years old rodman are not enough for that status you give...
MrPims33 1 year ago
yeah it's all about defense, the 1986 are of the best all around defensive teams, the 1996 bulls are maybe the best perimeter defensive team ever, but who's gonna guard the paint against bigger, stronger and taller players, who have lots of skill? again, jordan, maybe the goat, pippen one of the best perimeter defenders ever, not the best like you make it out, rodman, great defender but was past his prime and was small for the pf position, even though he could guard anyone, to a certain extent..
MrPims33 1 year ago
was I comparing jordan to dj or parish? wait, so the only one who can be playing great at 32 is jordan? omg you take d*ckiding to a whole nother level, and rodman was 34 and harper 32 so... the 1996 are far more athletic than any team from the 80's? lmao, taking out jordan, who was not as athletic as he used to be, pippen, and rodman, who was also not as athletic as before, who they got? kukoc? longley? again you're just embarrassing yourself, I don't even need to do anything.
MrPims33 1 year ago
Pims. You never answered my questions about "having more Hall of Famers"
If having more hall of famers is the key to success, then how come the Celtics lost to the Lakers in 1987 and eventually the Pistons? How come they lost to the 76ers in 1982?
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
stop with the ignorant d*ckriding
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- So because I don't agree with you I'm an ignorant d*ckrider, that's hilarious. I'm the d*ckrider and you talk out of your a** LOL.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
boston had 5 hall of famers, 5 guys scoring in double figures, along with two more scoring like 8ppg, many all stars and former all stars, many players who were on the first or second defensive teams, 6th man of the year, mvp, former mvps, finals mvp, former finals mvps, while playing with tougher rules against tougher competition. I mean, bird, mchale, parish, walton, dj, ainge, wedman, sichting, sam vincent, kite? bulls can't top that combination of size, skill and power. forget about that
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Again, don't need to rattle off the roster. I know who was on the team.
Former MVPs??? What the hell does that have to do with anything? we're talking about the 1986 Celtics. what the hell does Bill walton's MVP in 1977 have to do with it. And you call me an ignorant d*rider? LOL. You just throw junk out there with nothing to back it up.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...are you on crack? again you don't know what yu're talking about.
MrPims33 1 year ago
did you even watched the 87 season? lakers cruised trough the western conference, celtics were full of injuries and they had a tough time trough the eastern conference, by the time they reached the finals, they had many injuries and beaten down players, everyone knows this, still that 87 lakers team is one of the best ever also, and they could've taked it to that 86 celtics, they would demolish the 96 bulls. Wilkins not a great defender? Cooper not nearly the caliber of defender pippen was?...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- don't give me BS about the Celtics being full of injuries in 1987. They made it back to the Finals and lost to the Lakers.
Wilkins and Cooper are not nearly the defender Pippen was. Period. Pippen is the greatest defensive SF of all-time. Maybe you should watch a Bulls game from the 90s. And yes, I watched the 87 season. Been watching the NBA since the 80s my friend.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...like the 87 lakers, who also can beat the 96 bulls. dj was a finals mvp, one of the best defensive guards and you don't put him in the hall of fame, again, you don't know what the f you're talking about. that celtics team had like 5 guys scoring in double figures, great defensive players who could play as a team. bulls couldn't handle their combination of size, skill and power. they don't have the team or the depth to handle it. jordan would kill it as always but that's it.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Spare me the scoring numbers. the 80s was a higer scoring decade for basketball. Put the 1996 Bulls in the 1980s and they score just as much as La or Boston. Then then they would apply their world class defense on those teams. Which they woudln't handle. Defense baby, defense. Its not all about scoring.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
so? jordan was 32 also. first of all I'm not a celtics fan, you're the fan/d*ckrider here. 1986 bill walton overrated? don't make me laugh, he averaged 7.6ppg, 6.8rpg, 2.1apg and 1.3bpg while only playing 19 minutes, plus he brought great defense and great offense by also passing the ball and creating alot of good screens, but you don't even know what you're talking about. why they didn't more? because some were old and some full of injuries and they faced much better competition than the bulls.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Bill walton could only play that many minutes because he was so injured. He played well in limited time, but people that have a love affair with the 86 Celtics make it seem like he was in 1977 form. Please. If Bill Walton put up those same numbers on the Atlanta Hawks, no one talks about it. And he doesn't win 6th man of the year.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Well Jordan is different because he was the GOAT. Don't compare him to DJ or Parish. Jordan was winning MVPs at 35 y/o. A whole different animal. A world class athlete. Athleticism. the 1996 Bulls are FAR more athletic than any team from the 80s. Sorry friend.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Oh, and since you love the opinion of the "experts" so much, remember the ESPN Who's #1 show? The 1996 Chicago Bulls were #1 for greatest NBA teams. And John Hollinger (do you consider him an expert?) He ranked the top Finals teams with his numbers and the 1996 Bulls were #1. 1987 Lakers #2, 1986 Celtics #3. I'll email you the link.
Now I couldn't care less what these shows or experts say. I don't need them to back me up. I just wanted to post that for you since you place so much stock on them.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Simple question Mr Pims. If having more Hall of Famers makes you a better team, then how come the 87 Celtics lost to the 87 Lakers. And why did the 1982 Celtics lose to the 1982 76ers?
you can't answer it because the "more HOFers makes you a better team" argument is a weak one that I've shot down several times with multiple examples.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
I got a question for ya. If the C's are so great, how come they couldn't win it again? Why couldn't they beat the Lakers in 1987? Bird is better than Worthy. McHale has a big advantage over AC Green. A 33 y/o Parish should have got the better of a 39 y/o Kareem. Ainge and Scott are different types of players, but similar production. DJ vs. Magic, clearly Magic has the advantage. But how come the Celtics, and their "5 HOFers" couldn't overcome the Lakers and their 3 HOFers??
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
typical ignorant d*ckriding at its finest. keep thinking you're the man and know everything, and just ignore all the experts, players, analysts and so on that realize that the 96 are one of the best teams ever but not the best, just because they got the best record.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 --And you keep running to "experts" for your opinions? Sorry, I think for myself and have my own opinions.
you bring weak arguments to the table, I shoot them down, and you accuse me of "d*ckriding." Whatever you say man. go back and read some more Bill Simmons.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...mchale, parish, walton, add that to dj, another hall of famer, ainge, wedman, sichting, sam vincent and kite providing great insurance for that great frontcourt. the bulls never faced that type of competition and that's a fact. plus image, bird also protected by the refs, mchale and parish with no handchecking and add that to the ilegal defenses, plus bird and ainge with that 3 point line, and dj not being beat down on his way to the basket. the bulls don't stand a chance against
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- I'm well aware of the 1986 Celtics roster, you don't need to rattle it off to me. I know who was on the team, and the Bulls are better.
If the Celtics are so great, why couldn't they do it again? Because they aren't as great as you think. The Bulls are the greatest defensive team ever with three of the greatest defenders ever. The greatest player of all-time and the greatest coach of all-time. D beat those 80s team. that's why the Pistons took over. then the Bulls. Defense.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- You keep saying illegal defense. Major changes to illegal defense weren't made until the early 2000s. Sure handchecking was taken out by then, but I got news for you, Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen all made all-defensive teams under the new rules AND the old rules. MJ and Rodman won defensive player of the year awards prior to any rule changes. So try again.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- 1986 Bill walton is overrated. But you Celtics fans have a love affair with him. What didn he average? 7.6ppg and 6.8 rebounds? Statistically the worst 6th man winner in the history of the award. DJ isn't a hall of famer in my opinion. He should be in the hall of very good. Not the hall of fame. So spare me the "we go more hall of famers" argument. It a simple way to look at things.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
you talk about myths, these are facts that anyone who knows his bball know. nba by 1993 started to be worse in terms of competition, not saying there weren't great teams or players. the 80's had no weak teams like the raptors or the grizzlies and more great players were concentrated on one team. and if bird could drop 38 on pippen while he was full of injuries, old with a bad bad back, imagine what he would do in his prime. no way the bulls can take the size, strength and skill of bird...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- No they are not facts. they are opinions. It is your opinion that the NBA was stronger in the 1980s. That's not a fact, it's an opinion.
If the NBA was so great in the 80s, then how does a 30-win team (the 1986 Chicago Bulls) make the playoffs. Don't tell me how bad the Grizz and Raptors are when 30-win teams made the playoffs in the 80s. at least the Grizz and Raptors didn't make the playoffs.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...protected superstars. again see it clearly and stop d*ck riding, bulls probably have the best player but they certaintly don't have the best team. stop being ignorant with those posts. bird, mchale, parish, walton, and dj is not something you can play with.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- So if I don't agree with you I'm ignorant? Well I guess I'm ignorant because I would never agree with the sorry, weak arguments you make. I've shot down every lame 1986 Celtics talking point you've thrown at me. Sorry if that's all you got. Go watch some NBA classic videos and read a Bill Simmons column LOL.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...bird could kill anyone, athletic, great defenders, like cooper, wilkins, dr j, rodman, or pippen himself. plus in the post you gotta double team and he would dish it like he always did to some other hall of famer. the bulls bench can provide good offense but they would get killed on the defensive end. look the bulls never faced a team with 5 hall of famers, as good in depth like the 86 celtics. that team played with the 3point line where it should be, tough rules, no...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- the Celtics didn't have 5 guys playing at a hall of fame level. So stop trying to make it seem Bill Walton was playing in 1986 like he was in 1977. DJ and Parish were older. Not in their prime anymore. Bird and McHale were the only HOFers playing in their prime years. Parish was about what? 32? DJ the same?
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- wilkins? As in Dominique Wilkins? Not a great defender. Sorry. Dr. J, Coop, not nearly the caliber of defender that Scottie Pippen was. Sorry.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrPims33 1 year ago
and stop playing on default while on low difficulties, and yeah download the rest of celtics, you'll loose even in a game.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- The rest of the Celtics. Oh no, Greg Kite on NBA 2K11, I'm so afraid. :) Feel free to download my Randy Brown and Jason Caffey from 2K share on the 360 to complete your 1996 Bulls roster. The greatest team of all-time.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog there goes to show you're just an ignorant d*ckrider, greg kite? what about bill walton? don't you see that those teams that had good centers lacked? a great team to back them up. bulls can't handle a frontcourt of bird, mchale, parish and walton coming off the bench, had that to another hall of famer in dj plus a good solid piece in ainge, also with the scoring power of wedman of the bench, scoring 3's when the 3point line was where it should be. look that celtics team has...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog ...3 hall of famers in their prime plus 2 more, you can't f with that. jordan is the only one that can really make a difference. rodman below the basket to grab all them rebound lets mchale kill him with his midrange, plus he got the size and wingspan to also kill him in the post, rodman was really a sf, parish vs longley is a lock for parish on both ends, pippen's slashing game wouldn't be just against bird but he also had mchale, the chief or walton waiting below the basket..
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Ah, the over-simplistic "we got more hall of famers" argument. I've had this before. You need to scroll back a few pages in the comments. the Celtics lost to the 76ers in the 1982 ECF. The Celtics had 4 HOFers and the 76ers had 1, Dr. J. the 76ers won the series. So riddle me this? How did the 76ers win with just 1 HOFer to the Celtics' 4????
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
yeah, yeah, yeah, I gave you valid arguments and facts while on the other hand you just sound more and more like a d*ckrider.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Don't get mad becaus e I'm shooting down your "valid" arguments. You're the one that completely ignored all the FACTS I posted about Bird vs. Pippen in the late 80's early 90s.
You were the one who was saying Bird "killed" Pippen. But I proved that wasn't the case. But you went all quite on that front.
Do get mad and start name calling. I didn't call you any names. Just shooting down the myths that people continue to throw out there. Like the NBA was somehow stronger in the 80s.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
that pretty much sums it up. plus: "You need a dominant big man to get to the (NBA) Finals. Chicago did it. But they were an aberration" - Phill Jackson, regarding the 96 bulls.
MrPims33 1 year ago
What does that sum up? that the Bulls were the only team to be a dynasty without a dominant offensive big man. I know that already. So what does that prove?
The Bulls won titles in the greatest era of NBA centers. Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, O'Neal. All top 50 players off all-time. So if centers were the be-all-end-all, then why no beaty MJ and the Bullies??? Beacause MJ was the GOAT and the Bulls were the greatest teams of all-time.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
... I believe the following teams have the weapons necessary to defeat the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls.
1985-86 Boston Celtics
1986-87 Los Angeles Lakers
1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers
1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers
1970-71 Milwaukee Bucks
1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- And the Bulls have the weapons, and defense, to beat all of those teams. Plus home court advantage by winning an NBA record 72 games.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...Who can beat these Bulls?
The 1992 Chicago Bulls do not quite fit the criteria above, but they are a better team because they are very strong on #2 (BOTH Jordan + Pippen were more productive in 1992) and #3 (Horace Grant fills both of those roles). The Bulls also have a solid bench and an offensively capable center (Bill Cartwright, who made the All-Star team when he was a Knick), which makes the difference for the 1992 team.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Pippen was not more productive in 1992 than 1996. Pippen was at his peak in 1996. that's what some people fail to understand. Scottie Pippen made the ALL-NBa First team 3 times in his career , 1994, 1995 and 1996. Pippen was at his peak in 1996. MJ could kill you inside and out. Rodman was the NBA's leading rebounder and made the all defensive 1st team with MJ and Pip. Kukoc was the 6th man and a matchup nightmare when MJ and Pip were on the court too.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...This list is easier said than done. The team who came the closest to matching this criterion in 1995-96 were the Seattle Supersonics (2, 3 & 4). The Sonics had a strong perimeter trio in Gary Payton, Hersey Hawkins and Detlef Shrempf, the rugged & athletic Shawn Kemp at power forward and a solid bench led by Nate Mcmillan & Sam Perkins. Unfortunately for the Sonics they did not have a dominant center to punish the Bulls inside & they lost the NBA Finals 4-2.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- You keep bringing up the dominant center as if it's that simple. the Bulls played the 1996 Sonics, and I'm glad you are smart enough to acknowledge how good of a team that was.
But before the Bulls played the Sonics in the Finals they went through Alonzo Mourning in the 1st round, Patrick Ewing in the 2nd round and Shaq in the ECF.
Just because the Bulls didn't faceoff with a great center in the Finals, doesn't mean they never faced one.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...OR you need a tough power forward who can tangle with Rodman to keep him occupied under the boards. Even better if your center is a dominant rebounder too. A solid bench that can counter the offense the Bulls get from Kukoc & Kerr, if the team has quick players/good defenders coming off the bench they will be able to bother these two (who are slow afoot) on defense.
MrPims33 1 year ago
Here are the four basic weapons a team would need to defeat the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls: A dominant center who can punish the Bulls & their mediocre center: Luc Longley on the inside. A perimeter trio who is capable of keeping it close against Jordan, Pippen & Harper. A power forward with a decent 20 foot jump shot to hit open shots Rodman will give him out there....
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 - the how come the 1996 Magic couldn't beat them? Shaq - a dominant center. Grant - a power forward who can hit a 15 footer consistently and defend/rebound. Knew the Bulls and what they do obviously.
Penny Hardaway who had an inside out game at the point, and Nick Anderson/Dennis Scott to spread the floor and make you pay for doubling Shaq.
Easier said than done my friend.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
found this on the web
How can you beat these Bulls?
Under what would basically be the following NBA rules:
The original 23'9" 3 point line (The short one is discussed in the topics)
Illegal defenses (1980's)
Rules against hand checking (1990's)
No preferential treatment to superstars by referees ( pre 1980's) ....
MrPims33 1 year ago
I can't post links, don't know why, but look it up, nba experts saying the 1986 celtics beat the 1996 bulls, reasons why the 1996 bulls wouldn't fair as well in the 80's, reasons why the 1986 celtics beat them, they all over the web, I can't post them here, search the links, if you want I can even send you.
MrPims33 1 year ago
What NBA experts? Boston homers like Bill Simmons and Bob Ryan? ha ha, spare me. I actually watch games, so I don't need to rely on another person's opinion on NBA basketball.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Go ahead and emial me the link, But don't send me that lame-a** NBA.com poll from a few years ago where the "experts" picked the 86 Celtics 4-1 over the 96 Bulls. A biased joke of a poll that featured voters like Bob Ryan, Jack Ramsey, Red Auerbach and Steve Kerr. Celtics fans have sent that to me before. It's worthless.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...teams, I can judge it clearly. every basketball knowledgeable knows that the 86 can beat the 96 bulls. even dennis rodman said they wouldn't won 70 games in the 80's, look it up, and look that quote from mj because he said that the 92 bulls are better, they had grant at the 4, granted rodman was a great defender but he wasn't no pf. under 80's hard rules, no superstars protected, 3 point line not closer to the basket, them bulls can't take the 86 c's.
MrPims33 1 year ago
when bird can drop 38 with an old body full of injuries and with his back all f'ed up. imagine what would he do to pippen, bird could kill anyone, even the most athletic guys in the world, that's not even up for debate, of course pippen would give him trouble, that's god damn scottie pippen. yeah, they won against teams with great centers, but teams with a great sf, pf and a c, no. that frontcourt would kill them in the post. stop d*ckriding, I'm a lakers fan, 33 for kareem, I watched both...
MrPims33 1 year ago
So Scottie Pippen and Larry Bird went head to head 10 times in the 89/90.90/91 and 91/92 seasons. these are the averages I got.
Bird - 22.9ppg 8.0r 6.1a and 98 of 212 fg for a .462%
Pippen - 23.4ppg 6.2r 7.8a and 88 of 169 fg for a .520%
Feel free to double check my math. I got the stats from b-ball reference.
So Celtics fans, please tell me again, how did Larry Bird kill Scottie Pippen in the late 80s/early 90s??? Looks pretty even to me.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Bird vs Pip 1991-92
Nov 6 1991- Bird 30p 2r 9a 12/22fg, Pip 19p 7r 8a 5/14fg
Dec 25 1991- Bird 8p 8r 4a 4/10fg, Pip 27p 4r 8a 9/18fg
Mar 11 1992- Bird 10p 4r 6a 4/15fg, Pip 24p 5r 11a 8/15fg
Apr 5 1992 - Bird DNP
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Bird v Pip 1990-91
Nov 6 1990 - Bird 24p 11r 1a 11/16fg, Pip 23p 5r 4a 9/16fg
Nov 9 1990 - Bird 23p 8r 5a 8/20fg, Pip 10p 8r 10a 4/11fg
Feb 26 1991- Bird 12p 7r 5a 6/14fg, Pip 33p 7r 6a 14/18fg
Mar 31 1991- Bird 34p 15t 8a 15/36, Pip 35p 10r 9a 12/24 fg
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Pippen vs. Bird - 1989-90 season. Nov 4th 1989 Bird 27 p 9 r 6 a 12/24 fg
Pippen 28p 8 r 5 a 13/24fg
March 4 1990 - Bird 38p 11 r 9 a 16/32 fg, Pip 22 p 5 r 7 a 9/17 fg
Apr 17 1990 - Bird 23 p 5 r 8 a 9/23 fg, Pip 12 p 2 r 10 a 5/12 fg
Apr 20 1990 - bird DNP
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
I'm going to take the time and research Bird vs. Pippen in the late 80's/early 90s. Because C's fans always claim Bird "killed" Pippen. I just glanced at the game logs from 1989-1990 and that doesn't seem to be the case. So I'm going to look at their head to heads. Pip was a raw rookie in 87-88 so I'm not using that. Bird played only 6 games in 88-89, so I'm not using that either. So 89-90, 90-91 and 91-92. I'll post later.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
like charles barkley, magic johnson and countless other said, when you don't have a good center at best, you can't be the best team ever, the 86 celtics got a better center on their bench the bulls strating one. plus remember this is basketball, size matters, if anything else, bulls don't got the size.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- Bulls had the defense and Jordan's Bulls won titles in an era of great centers. Ewing, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Mourning, Robinson. The Bulls beat all the teams with great centers. So I'm not buying that one.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
also, the 92 bulls are better than the 96 ones, even mj said that. they had grant playing like a true all star, offensively and on d. still even the 92 bulls wouldn't beat the 86 celtics, that would be a closer and better series though imo.
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- When did MJ ever say that? I don't recall Jordan ever saying one of the Bulls teams was better than another. Do you have a link to that?
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
among the greatest ever but they wouldn't beat the 86 celtics.
MrPims33 1 year ago
plus it's a fact that the in the 90's the nba became weaker due to all the new teams coming in, influx of european players and the rules started to protect the offense, handchecking removed, harder to play tough physical d, 3 point line closer to the basket for some years, more protected superstars, mostly mj. 86 celtics faced better competition team-wise and harder rules. kids these days think they know everthing and d*ckride to the fullest. I was a big 90's bulls fan and that 96 bulls is...
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 -- It's a myth that 80's NBA was somehow stronger. The 1986 Bulls won 30 games and made the playoffs in 86. The NBA in the 80s was top-heavy. That's why the Lakers and Celtics were always in the Finals with the exceptions of a few years. And until the Pistons - who brought elite defense to the game - arrived. You mention the influx of Euro players, that made the pool of player larger to support expansion teams.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
...also provide some really strong minutes. I could see this going the distance but, if you had both teams at their best and everybody healthy, the celtics would take this. 96 bulls got probably the best player but 86 celtics got probably the best team.
MrPims33 1 year ago
...plus if he took him to the post with his height and wingspan, rodman, as good as his, would be in trouble. parish would eat up longley on both sides of the floor, no matchup there, plus they had walton coming off the bench providing some great minutes. johnson would contain mj to a certain extent, of course no one could stop him, he would still get his but it wouldn't be enough for the team to win. harper, kukoc and kerr could be a problem for the c's but ainge, wedman and sichting could...
MrPims33 1 year ago
86 celtics would most def beat the 96 bulls in a 7 games series. it's all about matchups, no way the bulls could contain bird, mchale, parish and walton of the bench, they don't got the size. bird killed pippen in the early 90's when he was old and full of injuries not mention he would always kill rodman when he was played at sf, pippen would have his hands full on d so he wouldn't be a major factor on offense, mchale could hit from midrange if rodman sagged off of him to grab all the rebounds..
MrPims33 1 year ago
@MrPims33 - The Bulls would contain Bird with the greatest defensive SF of all time, Scottie Pippen. Bird would get his, but Pippen would make him work on both ends of the floor because he's a superior athlete. And why is it Celtics fans always say Bird killed Pippen early on. This is 1996 Bulls. 1996 Pippen. So that fact that Bird "killed" Pippen in 1989 or 1990 is irrelevant.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
96 Bulls faced tougher competition than 86 Celts did in their playoff run. 96 Heat>>>86 Bulls (96 Heat were as talented as a 2 seed but they didn;t assemble until trade deadline which is why they were 8 seed). RD 2 96 Knicks>86 Hawks (96 Knicks=same team that should have won 94 Title). 96 Magic>>>>>>86 Bucks (no brainer there--86 Bucks had a bunch of drug users on the team). 96 Sonics>86 Rockets (Hakeem not in peak yet, GP and Detlef would own the inferior Rocket guards).
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC I don't see a big difference in the competition they faced in the playoffs. In 1986, The Bulls would have been higher than a #8 seed if MJ played the whole season, the Hawks won 50 games that year & Dominique Wilkins finished 2nd in the MVP voting behind Bird, The Bucks were very good winning 57 games & having a +9.0 point differential, & the Rockets were a very dangerous team that had a scary good frontline with Hakeem/Sampson & beat the showtime Lakers in the WCF.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. Even if MJ played Bulls in 86 only win maybe 5-7 more games because outside of MJ they SUCKED big time (Orlando Woolridge your second best player---nuff said). HAwks were a one man team outside of Dominique and would have gotten owned by 96 Knicks. I already hit the CONF FInals OPP. Rockets only beat Lakers because Lakers were not 100% and it was a fluke as well. Sidney Moncref LOL You kidding me. Gary Payton with the flu would school him.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC I can play it your way too. The Bulls beat an old Knicks team that won only 47 games, they beat the Orlando Magic, but Horace Grant was injured & they dropped 2 straight games vs the Sonics & Jordan & Pippen played below their standards. And I didn't even mention they won 72 games during an expansion year when the NBA added 2 teams.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. All your points are so failed. Knicks would have won more than 47 games if moron Don Nelson didn;t coach them earlier in season. Even without Horace GRant the Magic were still better than the 86 Bucks and their druggies. Expansion yr means nothing, so thats two bottom teams which the NBA has every yr. Heck those expansion teams probably beat the 86 Bulls. ANd Bulls led SOnics 3-0 while Celts never led lesser ROckets 3-0.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC The Knicks were 34-22 with Nelson & 13-10 with Van Gundy, their record was actually better with Nelson, proved wrong again. And again you continue to underrated the '86 Bucks and calling them "drug addicts", but you completely ignore the fact that they won 57 games & had a +9.0 point differential. And who cares if the The Bulls had a 3-0 lead over the Sonics, the series ended 4-2, same as the Celtics-Rockets series,
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. Give it up man because you have failed in all your attempts. The 96 Bulls won more games in a tougher and better NBA yr than the 86 Celtics. If they played each other the 96 Bulls were just way more athletic. The league was 100 times more athletic in 96 than it was in 86 so if a pathetic 30 win Bulls team can AVG. 11 PPG in a series vs the 86 Celts than what would the way more athletic teams of 96 do to them? Too fast too strong for those 86 Celts to handle.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC The league was stronger in 1986 & I had no idea the Bulls averaged 11 PPG vs the Celtics in 1986. lmao.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. MJ and Pippen played below their standards in those two straight losses to Seattle because the SOnics played great. AGain 86 SOnics>86 Rockets.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC God, you are such a homer. It wasn't only in the 2 straight losses that MJ/Pippen underperformed. In the game 6 clincher MJ shot 26% from the floor, Pippen shot 41%. In game 3 Pippen shot 36%. In game 2 MJ shot 41%& in Game 1 Pippen shot 33%. And yes, that Sonics team was good, but the Rockets were a very dangerous team & they had a better front court than the Sonics.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. I didn't read anything you wrote because you have said nothing but lies. THe 96 Bulls are too much defensively and too athletic for the 86 Celts to even have a chance at and the 96 Bulls are deeper. 1996 NBA was tougher than the No defense 1986. I already mentioned the Bulls played tougher teams. I WIN YOU LOSE. Don't respond back because your on block and being ignored (I am not reading it. Have a nice life because your a troll.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC You're mad because I exposed all of you lies. You said the Bulls-Celtics series in 86 was close and I showed you it wasn't. You said The Knicks would have won 50+ in 96 without Don Nelson & I showed you that they were pretty much the same team with JVG. You said MJ/Pippen only played below their standards in the '96 Finals in their 2 losses, & I showed you that wasn't the case. You also said the Rockets beat the Lakers in 1986 because the Lakers were injured, again MORE LIES.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
Gameguy, I think Raiderfan should be blocked from this video for telling lies and thinking the 86 Celts are better than 96 Bulls. 86 Bulls were in every game and scored at will vs 86 Celts so obviously 96 Bulls would have got whatever they wanted offense-wise and their athleticism would overwhelm the Celtics when playing Defense vs them. OWNED!
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC block me for telling lies? The only person who is lying is you. You say the Bulls were in every game vs the Celtics in '86, that is a flat out LIE! The Bulls lost game 1 by 19 points & game 3 by 18 points. Again, do your homework.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. Those games were closer than what the scores indicated. At certain pts of those games the SUCKY 86 Bulls were in striking distance but eventually a team with one young star and a bunch of NBDL players (if 80s had an NBDL) should have no shot against the self proclaimed "greatest team ever". May I also add 96 Bulls faced tougher competition in their title run. LOL Celts faced freakin Bucks in East Finals---LMFAO give me a break.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC No, The Celtics won by 19 & 18 POINTS how can the games be closer than the score indicated? I've seen games 1 & 3 & it was not close at all. And the Bucks were a VERY good team throughout the 80's, they were led by Sidney Moncrief, in 1986 they won 57 games and had a point differential of +9.0 Why are you laughing?
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. And the Bulls faced Orlando with Shaq and Penny (If Penny don;t get injuries he is one of greatest players ever like Shaq is). Of course Bucks won 57 games in a watered down league. Magic won 60 in a tougher league. And lol 86 Bulls still AVG. 113 PPG and I will laugh all I want. One more thing 72 wins in a tougher yr is greater than 67 wins in a lesser yr.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
I haven't even mentioned MJ much in these debates - hard to believe. Which 6 foot 4 guard gets eatin' up by the GOAT? Either way, it's a long day for the '86 C's. MJ had his fadeway perfected by then. DJ and Ainge wouldn't stand a chance. Thus MJ would have to be doubled constantly. Opening up the floor for everyone else. If Kerr is in for Harper, are you gonna leave Kerr wide open to double MJ? The Jazz found out what happens when you do that in Game 6 of the 1997 NBA Finals.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Bottom line 96 Bulls could get whatever they want against Celts D as 86 Bulls were able to and MJ is much better player in 96, has better supporting cast and greater athletes, and better Defense by far. Defense wins games and Titles and 96 Bulls Defense is much better than 86 Celts Defense. Also, athletes in NBA much greater in mid 90s than mid 80s so 96 Bulls Athleticness and speed is too much for 86 celts (speed kills). Mchale never shut down Nique which is why he matched Bird in PO scoring.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC. What I mean is the arguement of McHale matching up with Dominique is useless---see Dominique nearly match Bird's scoring output in those playoff series they had (when both went for about 40 pts each). Like I said watching the Bulls-Celts tapes from 1986 playoffs Orlando Woolridge isod McHale in the post in those games and had a lot of success. Yes sucky Orlando Woolridge.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
And Larry Bird never scorched Scottie Pippen. Okay late 80s when Scottie barely got into the lineup and was not very smart player yet, LArry schooled him with tough shooting. Now Pippen in 96 is an athletic freak at his athletic peak and basketball peak and is a much smarter player obviously. Heck Pippen at end of career put the clamps on a 20 yr old Kobe in those playoff matchups 2000, 2001 Blazers vs Lakers and Kobe is much more rounded of a player and better athlete than Bird.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC -- Right. That what Celtics fans fail to understand. Scottie Pippen in 1996 was at his peak, and is a bad matchup for Larry Bird both offensively and defensively. Scottie Pippen made the all-NBA 1st team 3 times in his career, 1994, 1995 and 1996. He was also on the all-defensive 1st team those years, and many others. So Pip was at his peak in 1996. Bird would have a hard time guarding him due to Pip's strengths, ball handling and slashing.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog. And as great of an NBA household name Larry Bird is, He sucked balls on Defense. And no people I don;t want to hear about that stupid steal against the Pistons that one playoff game, which was more attributed to a sucky pass by Isiah Thomas. Bird couldn't guard anyone as he was freakin slow and unathletic.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC Bird also scorched Pippen in the early 90's. You say Pippen wasn't in his prime, well neither was Bird.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. Bird was in his prime in early 90s and Pippen was not even developed yet. Also I know Woolrdige sucked but if you actually watched the games there were segments were he isoed the great Mchale and had his way. Also the 96 Bulls would have AVG. 120 PPG if they played in the Defensively weak 1985-86. Teams could score in 96 but Defenses were superior. And 1987 MJ still scored a lot vs Celts via FTs and shot low since he took a lot since rest of his team sucked balls.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
@JZ2001JC lol @ you thinking Bird was in his prime in the early 90's. Absolutely ridiculous.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943. LOL at you thinking Pippen was even close to being in his prime in early 90s (1990 Bird was in his prime--really it was late 1991 when he got a "hurt back"). LOL at you thinking an unathletic no Defensive playing 86 Celtics could beat a much superior Athletic and better Defensively 96 Bulls. For crying out loud 86 Bulls with only one good player socred at will against 86 Celts. Obviously 96 Buls would do even more.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago
I can't imagine that Bulls team even dreaming up a way to defend Boston. Parish with his 10-foot jumpers would eat Longley and Wennington alive. You'd almost have to put Rodman on him. McHale would just kill them offensively, especially if Kukoc was his match-up. And don't forget, Kevin used to guard guys like Bernard King and Dominique Wilkins. Toni Kukoc wouldn't scare him a bit. Harper was such a non-entity offensively, you could almost put Bird on him. Celtics in 6.
captainvaritek 1 year ago
@captainvaritek -- Ah, you Celtics fans slay me. You make it seem like these players couldn't be stopped, yet they never won back-to-back-titles, so they were stopped several times apparently. The 86 celtics gave up 113 ppg to the 1986 Bulls. What would the 1996 Bulls do to them? And since the 1996 Bulls are the greatest defensive team ever, they would slow Boston down. 1996 Bulls in 6 games. they have home court since they won an NBA record 72 games.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
Oh, and more more matchup that never seems to come up in this 96 Bulls vs. 86 Celtics debate... Phil Jackson vs. K.C. Jones. Phil would coach circles around ole K.C..
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog Just like he coached circles around Doc Rivers in the 2008 Finals. Phil = overrated.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943 -- Selective memory. You conveniently leave out the 2010 NBA Finals. Who won that one?
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog Well it wasn't Phil's coaching that won that series. If Perkins didn't get hurt who knows what might of happened. The Celtics didn't need a great coach considering how intelligent they were. 6 players from the '86 Celtics actually went on to be head coaches in the NBA: McHale, Bird, Ainge, Vincent, Carlisle, & DJ coached a few games.
raiderfan14943 1 year ago
@raiderfan14943 -- I forgot DJ coached the Clippers. I'm sure he did to. Stop trying to dismiss Phil as a coach. Phil was very important to the Bulls and Lakers dynasties. Who knows, if the C's had a great coach like Phil, maybe they would have actually won back-to-back titles.
TheGameGuysBlog 1 year ago
@TheGameGuysBlog. Lets not also forget if the NBA had the shoot 3 FTs when being fouled behind the FT line in 1986 like they did from mid-90s to current then the 30 win 1986 Bulls win Game 2 over the "Greatest Team Ever" 1986 Celts; MJ was fouled shooting a 3 pter at buzzer of 2nd OT with Bulls down by 2--and with the way he performed that day he obviously would have made that 3rd FT for the win and we don;t have this arguement because losing to a 30 win team at home in playoffs, LOL.
JZ2001JC 1 year ago