It's Metaphorical

[SouthyMandem]

@discussislam - I 100% agree with you

[xspettacolare]

yeah I agree,so where do we draw the line between what is being said Metaphorical,literal,allegoric­al, or symbolically? I dont know about any of you folks, but have had a theosophy education with an understanding of mythology such as in reading about the buddha reincarnation & the gita etc ,etc. some passages can be said to be allegorical while others arent.

over all does anyone really believe that adam & Eve were real people's that once lived & was then cast out of heaven?

so any takers?

[BelieveNoGod]

Muslims have for years calimed muhammadada was illiterate. But recently there have been muslims claiming he have written letters.

To write u have to be able to read.

So ergo he could have read the bible. And copied from it, to make his own personal religion.

Wich he obviously did. Read the two books. And see how many ppl, and stories in the bible that are in the koran. U will understand what I mean.

Wich religion came last, in the middle east ?

[Mahmood42978]

I think you presented a false dichotomy, the metaphorical and literal aspects of the Qur2an reflect each other, there is no "special knowledge for the elite" and literal for everyone else; the only difference is you get the more deeper understandings by deeper contemplation/study. You can "get it" if you want to; The idea of terrible consequences doesn't preclude anything, because there's ways to evade it and to avoid such consequences

[BelieveNoGod]

Ismashyoubro think he's smart ?

He says u need logic and reason to understand islam. This statement alone shows how STUPID he is.

Belief in a 'god' has nothing to do with logic and reason.

Noone fully understand the jibberish in the koran. That's how ILLOGICAL the koran is, and why someone felt the need to write the hadtihs, to somehow try to explain what is really meant.

Like the bible they claim it's 'metaphorical'. So the guidelines are meant to confuse ppl ? That's logical :)

[isamelbou]

I entirely agree with you. But I would like to add that the reason nobody understand what is it means really is because the author was having serious mental problems. Mohamed was sick but a political genius. Yes you can be both.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

He wasn't really sick. I guess you are going to say that he was some warlord killer who used scare tactics to convert people, he was a pedophile for marrying Aisha(RA) and he robbed caravans, right? Believe me I have heard it all before. All these fraudulent claims have been dispelled, simply by logic, circumstance and an open mind. I wish you the best and I recommend that you at least clear your misconceptions. I respect your opinion but you should do some research first. With due respect :).

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

The hadith, give an insight to Muhammads(pbuh) life and his teachings, they don't interpret the Quran you dunce. That's called tafsir or exegesis.

This argument that discussislam makes, as much as I respect his opinion, is a bit flawed. I don't want to delve into it simply because I'm not in the mood, and I doubt you will want to listen with an open mind.

[BelieveNoGod]

@ISMASHYOUBRO To 'listen with an open mind' mean the same as to believe there are magic in the universe.

Yes. We humans don't understand much of anything, so we make it easy on our selves, and call all we don't understand magic. Or 'made by god'.

It's so easy isn't it ?

Oh, and i don't give a fuck about what this and that are called in the koran, or about islam. I have far to little respect for the doctrine for that.

To me, the hadiths are an expalnation of what is said in the koran.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

@ 2:25 the verse really is not metaphorical.

It is referring to a certain incident of when the Muslims were being persecuted by the Jews. When all else failed then it was Allah's command to fight back but only for his sake.

The Hadith clearly state the etiquette of war and how it must only be done in self defense.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

This argument of yours is rather weak discussislam. I can see where you're coming from, but no one stops you from seeing experts or scholars.

It's easy to learn the Quran. All you need to take for starters is an alim course which lasts a few years.

It seems your views are based on your own personal experiences really.

I won't lie though. Like every other society you will always find arrogant or close minded Muslims. I have met some amazing people mind you, who are in contact with Jinns.

[Erbstank]

Brilliant.

[godlessmessiah]

wife = personal creativity in the quran?

I agree with that statement

and when I say that,what It really means is..

agree= don't agree

statement= nonsense.....

[discussislam]

rofl

[JohnFotios]

Sub'd.

[ah05075]

sorry mate but ur talking nonsense and i truly dont ...

[ah05075]

and as for good disbelieving people. ignorance of law is not justified for not knowing. one still pays the price

[ah05075]

if the message is flying over thead then y does one not look further in to it, y r there scholars, imams and so on. one doesnt stop seekining knowledge if one does not apprehend it

[ah05075]

the allegations u r making idolators , wifes and so on. have u read it properly e.g it says a.... cant be bothered u wont listen, the time and effeort to make ur video will become useless to u

[ah05075]

this narrator has got the wrongend of the stick.

truth is ur perspective is distorted

[ah05075]

would lick around his ankles (fire dont lick)

[BelieveNoGod]

Most muslims, (an certainly this apply to the women) don't have an education.

In other words, they can't read and write.

They learn some of the verses in the koran by heart, and recite these when they pray.

It's the clergys, imams, and mullahs and those that interpret what the koran say.

So they can relay verses after their own head.

Of all muslims, maybe 40% can read the koran. And those that want to study islam, don't even read the koran. They study the works of other muslim writers.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Very few Muslim's today actually care about the true nature of Islam.

The sad reality, as well as sign of the Day of Judgment.

[BelieveNoGod]

The 'true nature of islam' ??

I'm sorry but when people try to impose their views on others by terrorizing, and killing others, that don't have the same view as they do. I can't say I like the 'nature' of such religion.

This is nothing NEW in islam. This has been going on as long as the cult have existed.

You better fresh up on the history man.

Muslim rulers have invaded and forced this messed up ideology, on many countries.

But now they are trying to sneak their way in.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Oh yes you know your stuff don't you? Bravo! I applaud your brilliance and the fact that you know so much about an actual Muslim and his fundamentals!

I know more about my own religion then you ever will to be quite frank. If the religion was spread by the sword like you seem to imply then there would not be any Arab Christian today. Or perhaps there would not even be a single Hindu in India today.

Oh yes we Muslims sure are evil. You want cults? Go see Freemasonry, Illuminati, NWO.

[BelieveNoGod]

I thought my name, my postings, and videos made it very clear I absolutely DESPISE religion, in most forms.

So I don't give a dime for any of them. They are all WORTHLESS.

I never said all muslims are evil.

But the religion they follow, are a total FAIL. As long as ONE man get the idea that he must kill others that don't follow your brainwashing doctrine, it's a fail.

And we see many.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Let's get something clear here. It doesn't really matter to me what you think of God and whatnot.

But the fact that you most likely know next to nothing OF Islam then I suggest you educate yourself then belittle religion.

You don't get the picture do you? Terrorism is due to the US and the agenda of the Freemasons and those other cults. You don't even understand that these people in the middle east are oppressed not only by the American Army, but the corrupt government's themselves.

[BelieveNoGod]

I can see what is written in the koran. What more is there to know ? Those words are what u are supposed to follow.

Blindly.

muslims prove them selves all the time.

If they scream "allah snackbar" or what the f... when they blow them selves up.

I take that as a proof they do this believing they are going to 'heaven' for killing kuffars. I don't need much more proof. there are something wrong with that religion.

The best use for the koran ? Hang it on the toilet for wiping your ass.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Apparently you know little. Period. Explaining these things takes time and plenty of logic. Based on past experiences, my explanations have been met with ignorant responses such as the other person replying with sending me a link to another incident that occurred in the Islamic World.

There is more ignorance in this world then one can imagine regardless of how many times people tell you 'this is the age of reasoning!'

I am willing to be disproved to be honest. That hasn't been done.

[BelieveNoGod]

Check out my posting on top !

Have I said u are lying ? BUT I think u are mislead, and u THINK u understand the koran. There are no tolerance, and understanding towards ppl believing something else than what's written in the koran.

allahballah 'himself' says so. But in reality it was the epileptic, childmolesting, highway robber that said it.

[isamelbou]

I am a humanist and of the opinion that everyone is entitled to practice whatever religion they please.But would like to point out the all religions are the creation of man.Evolution settled this 150 years ago.We are Apes. As far as I know all religions came about as an answer to injustice and deep social problems of a specific era.Most prophets really believed they were delivering a godly message because they suffered from delusions. They used to see things.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Well, to you your opinion, and to me mine. I wish you the best.

I don't deny evolution. I am pretty much on the sidelines when it comes to Human evolution. Anyway the fact is, I have a lot of reasons for believing my faith. For example, Islam focuses on worldly and spiritual tasks, and how to apply it into your daily life whereas many other religions are just spiritual. I have grown up with the true nature of Islam, none of that extremist nonsense.

Peace friend.

[isamelbou]

The truth that scientists came to with respect to human evolution do contradict the Abrahamic religions. Scientists did not set out to destroy anyone's believes. They just observed the evidence and derived this fact from it : we are not unique, we are just an other lifeform on earth. All living beings are related to each other. Throughout the 4.5 billion years since life began, we have diverged into different species through genetic mutations and natural selection.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Again, I know, I've learned it all before, and evolution in general is interesting to me. I do still retain my beliefs of Adam and Eve, and such, but I also follow Islam, the way it should be followed. Of course I am not perfect, because as I Muslim I have learned to be humble and caring of those who seek help. In Surah Nahl, it is mentioned that if someone says Islam is false, then argue with them and reason with them in manners most gracious. I forgot what verse though.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

I suggest that you actually learn of the religion instead of spewing hate. You sound like an ignorant bigot. It's all the same with you people. Go watch a documentary on the true nature of Islam. I strongly advise it if your logical mind is able to bear that option. Talk when you have valid reason to talk about something to dislike. I've met like 3 people in my life called Islam a violent and sick cult. All they did was some research and now they're Muslim.

[sdrawkcabgnipytmi]

What exactly is the difference between a cult and a religion other than the number of people who follow it and tax exemption in some countries?

[xingyimaster1987]

the Quran is meant to be literal, whoever says otherwise is a liar and a hypocrite.

[danielnz1]

Blind-faith belief and ignorance are as one as science, knowledge and rational thought are as one! Thus such unsubstantiated beliefs leave little room for any rational mutual meaningful dialogue, at-all.

[AhmadTheMoslem1986]

islam is thruth

myy imam says so, so it gotta be true!!

[tommytalks77]

Look, I'll put it in a simple way.

Your "imam" is lying. Not because he WANTS to lie to you but because he was lied to when he was a child and now he is blind to the truth and he thinks he is telling you the truth.

Your imam also tells you to ignore any evidence that shows that he is wrong, to close your eyes to the facts around you that demonstrate that he is lying so this way you'll never find out the lies.

Do some research yourself, find out the facts for yourself and you'll see the lies...

[isamelbou]

You talk like a true scientist. People that follow this reasoning are what we need not those who believe anything without proof.Carry on

[islamisretarded]

you are insane and deluded, why do you think everyone that opposes Islam is a Jew?

What is wrong with your psychopathic mind?

GET A LIFE, you obviously do not have one, you spend all your time hating Jooooosss.

IDIOT. You are pathetic.

[MENCADO]

The intellectual gymnastics that you go through in order to keep up with such evasions, have you ever considered what it is that you might learn if you were to drop such practices? Has it not occured to you that you may be blocking out information that could prove useful to have?

[MENCADO]

It also seems to me that if either one of the two of us has been wasting time, it has been you. You have spent more time and effort on evading answering questions and on responding with comments that do not address the actual content of those things that I have written to you than just about anyone else who I have tried to have conversations about his or her beliefs and comments with.

[MENCADO]

It seems to me that - as far as entering replies to other people's comments is concerned - as long as I am directing my responses to those people to whom my comments do relate - the points that I raise and the questions that I ask, if they are relevant and worthwhile, are relevant and worthwhile no matter what video I raise them under.

[hmt444]

really thought provoking.

[hemen277]

fuck ur mum bustard

[martinkun167]

Why don't you give a proper counter-argument against his points in the video, rather than accusing him of baseless things like a child?

I don't think that you are doing any good in promoting your religion right now, having behaved in such a way.

[hemen277]

you are not against islam but you are stupid asshole who thinks he is better than any 1 undrstand islam i think devil speak throw your tongue

[khatkhataXD]

Your calling him a devil?? LOL

Your the one with your insults, profanity, and attack. Your the devil, not him.

Violent-minded people like you is why I left islam.

[isamelbou]

The power of the internet will undo the knots some people have. I mean irrational thinking passed from prehistory. I love the internet. The first thing any Muslim scholar would advice his disciples is not to engage in any philosophical conversations with unbelievers.The fact that these religious people engage in such conversations is a huge advance for the triumph of reason and rationality

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

...Well um actually you are just making a bold assumption. As a Muslim I am told to question what I do not believe. Yes there are some who deny other ideologies but the Muslims I know and the scholars I meet do not fit the mold you put them in. Please stop assuming that Islam encourages ignorance and stupidity when in reality it encourages the gaining of knowledge of this world as well as preparing for the next.

Let's just agree to disagree.

[isamelbou]

I think that I am in a position to know what Muslims think. I was one of them for 40 years.

I can not think for you or analyse for you. All I can do is point you to the evidence that eluded me for 40 years.I too found it extremely hard to come to terms with the truth that was staring me in the face. The Thirst for knowledge and the drive to know more is what helped me to surmount a mountain of irrational tales and 7 th century science.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

Oh really now? So you must have been one dedicated scholar since you had such a thirst for knowledge? What exactly may I ask made you leave Islam? Was it Muhammad's(PBUH) supposed brutal slaughter of BQ? His marriage with Aisha(RA)? The fact that he was a 'warlord'? Was it some seemingly glaring contradiction in the Quran?

I have one question. Do you believe a universe can come from absolutely nothing? I heard Lawrence Krauss saying how it could be possible, but I found it hard to believe.

[discussislam]

@ISMASHYOUBRO - who knows where the universe is from, maybe there is some unimaginable power that one could call God and maybe there is not.

But one thing I am quite certain of, Islam, Christianity and Judaism are man made fictions.

[ISMASHYOUBRO]

I agree with the latter two naturally. I respect your opinion although I strongly disagree. Peace.

[jailstop]

@discussislam Do you feel Muhammad really thought he was getting revelations from God or do you think he knew he was trying to off a scam from the start?

[discussislam]

@jailstop

I believe Muhammad genuinely believed he was getting messages from God.

He wasn't the first and won't be the last.

[Zdrazy]

The Qur'an and the Bible both say that a universe came from absolutely nothing.

Krauss didn't say that he thinks that it 'could be possible.' Rather, the available evidence points to a flat inflationary universe, in which the sum total of matter/energy is 0.

It appears that what we call 'nothing' is actually not static or stable and is prone to quantum fluctuations that are, it seems, capable of bringing universes into being.

[CHAS1422]

Sure sure NewUC, everyone is a "retarded goat"...except you of course. YOU are a true believer and not a retarded goat! We admire your adherence to doctrine, but please stay safe. Don't lash out violently at disbelief! There is a lot food for skepticism in these antiquated doctrines. It is best to grow up and put the antiques in display cases. Otherwise, you begin to look like a "retarded goat".

[MENCADO]

Why do you put faith in those people? How do you KNOW that they are not wrong? How do you KNOW that they are not corrupt? How do you know that they are not unworthy of your trust? Should you follow what it is that you do not KNOW?

By the way, I meant to ask - Is there no mention within the Qur'an of any WOMAN of understanding - or of any women of understanding? tsk tsk! :)

[MENCADO]

The scholars are not infalliable people and saints that we are talking about. They are only human beings.

The problem is that you were not born knowing Arabic and that you were born without already knowing the content of the Qur'an, and so you cannot know whether or not any person or more who claims to know the correct Arabic words and meanings of the Qur'an is or is not misleading you about any one or more portions of it.

[MENCADO]

Do you see? I am not talking about your having placed your faith directly in the Qur'an, now; I am talking about your faith in certain scholars - instead of directly in the Qur'an. Why do you trust any so-called Islamic scholars, NewUC?

[MENCADO]

Any number of scholars could, in fact, be highly deceptive men who are only be pretending to be Muslims, and they could be using the Qur'an as a means to control the thinking and the behavior unknowing believers to suit their own personal purposes.

[EngelbrethHader]

so these imams or scholars are "fake" muslims, since you say they are deceiving....

please stop with the weak conspiracy theories and face reality.

Islam is a man made religion, just like all others.

[MENCADO]

"since you say they are deceiving...."

No, I did not make that assertion.

[MrRealizethetruth]

your are wrong - Islam is a man made evil cult - not a religion.

[MENCADO]

A majority group of scholars who were unknowingly wrong in their understanding - or who deliberately lied about the meaning - of some portion of the Qur'an could mislead all of the many followers who did not know that those scholars were incorrect in their understadning, and who did not believe that those scholars were incorrect in their understanding - or who did not know and did not believe that those scholars had lied about the meaning of that portion of the Qur'an.

[MENCADO]

" so Muslims take the opinion of the majority of scholars, something like voting. "

I didn't ask you about OPINIONS though, NewUC. I asked you about KNOWLEDGE.

The majority opinion of scholars could be wrong, EVEN if it is the majority opinion.

[MENCADO]

Whereas if any particular Muslim person fought back against any non-Muslim person who WAS (or non-Muslim people who WERE) actually actively attacking him or her - while the non-Muslim person was (or non-Muslim people were) attacking him or her - it WOULD BE self-defense, any Muslim fighting against any non-Muslim person who was NOT (or non-Muslim people who were NOT) actively physically attacking him or her, that person would not be fighting in self-defense.

[MENCADO]

An entire nation of non-Muslim people (that means not just the military of the nation, but ALL of the nation's citizens) attacking ALL of the people of a Muslim nation (that means each and every single one of the people of that nation).

An entire nation of Muslim people (that means not just the military of the nation, but ALL of the nation's citizens) attacking ALL of the people of a non-Muslim nation (that means each and every single one of the people of that nation).

[MENCADO]

Some individual non-Muslim people (but NOT an entire non-Muslim NATION) each attacking an individual who is one among a group of Muslim people (but NOT attacking an entire Muslim nation).

Some individual Muslim people (but NOT an entire Muslim NATION) each attacking an individual who is one among a group of non-Muslim people (but NOT attacking an entire non-Muslim nation).

[MENCADO]

There is a diffference, NewUC, between each of the following:

One non-Muslim person attacking a person who is Muslim.

One non-Muslim person attacking more than one Muslim person.

One Muslim person attacking one non-Muslim person.

One Muslim person attacking more than one non-Muslim person.

Some non-Muslim people fighting against a person who is Muslim.

Some Muslim people fighting against a person who is non-Muslim.

[MENCADO]

Those 30 non-Muslim fighting people would not be a non-Muslim NATION, nor would the particular group of Muslims (or apparent Muslims) against whom they were fighting be a Muslim NATION.

[MENCADO]

The U.S., for example, is not an Islamic nation, yet there are still (apparently) groups of Muslim people living in various sections within the U.S.. A particular group of say 30 non-Muslim people within the U.S. might fight against a particular group of of Muslim people (or apparently Muslim people) who are living within one particular section of the U.S., WITHOUT fighting against any other Muslims who are living anywhere else.

[MENCADO]

NewUC,

There is nothing wrong with the question that I asked. I am not careless with the words that I choose. I meant to ask exactly what I asked. I wasn't asking only about fights between nations. A group of non-Muslims ( aka. SOME non-Muslims) is not necessarily a whole non-Muslim nation. Likewise, a group of Muslims ( aka. SOME Muslims) is also not necessarily a whole Muslim nation.

[TheQuranSaysMoo]

Excellent video. It lookslike your hitting nerves with this one.

[islamisretarded]

sorry moron, I know how much you hate Jews and you spew all sorts of hate for them, I am sorry to disappoint you but I am not a Jew. I love Jewish people , they are not NASTY like you. Get a life, brainwashed moron, shame on you.

[bicnarok]

Its a case of making verses, writings etc call them what you want, fit into the right holes to validate an argument or a point of view. IMO if something says "you can beat your wife" then its plainly obvious what this means.

Moreover, if there is an almighty god he could quite easily make it clear what he wants of us, instead of getting people to write complicated books which people can interpret any way they want.

[islamisretarded]

he is telling the truth and you hate him for it. You are full of hate in your heart, it is so pathetic to see.

Get over your cult.

[MENCADO]

Also, I was asking this question about YOU and your knowledge, specifically, and you did not answer it:

Do YOU know what an allegory is and have YOU ever done any actual studying up on the different forms of figurative language?

If you have not done so, then you might not be well-informed enough to recognize certain of the more subtle uses of figurative language.

[MENCADO]

How would you know whether or not such men were or were not mistaken in their understanding?

How would you know whether or not such men were or were not lying about what it was that they claimed to understand correctly?

[MENCADO]

Does any Muslim man claim himself to be a Muslim man of understanding?

What reason would you have to believe such a claim?

Why would you trust the word of anyone who made such a claim?

[MENCADO]

Do you claim that any Muslim men are men of understanding?If so, how do you know that they do not have an incorrect understanding- one that you WRONGLY believe to be correct?

[MENCADO]

"Do we claim that All Muslims are men of understanding?"

That raises some very interesting questions, NewUC:

Do you claim that ANY Muslim is a man of understanding?

If so, how do you know that he does not have an incorrect understanding - one that you WRONGLY believe to be correct?

[MENCADO]

Likewise, if some people were attacking a group of Muslims, then it would only be SELF-defense for each Muslim to react defensively to the specific person (or people) who was (or who were) actually physically attacking him or her, and only while he or she was (or they were) actively attacking that Muslim. Muslims fighting for each other is not SELF-defense.

[MENCADO]

If someone is attacking only a single Muslim, it would NOT be SELF-defense for ANOTHER Muslim to fight on that Muslim's behalf. Do you see what I mean? For example, if I hit a relative of your's who is a Muslim, it would not be SELF-defense for you to hit me, in reaction to my hitting that person.

[MENCADO]

Is the word 'you', each time that it appears within that surah, referring to 'you' (singular) or does it mean 'you' (plural) - as in you Muslims (plural)? It mentions your HOMES (plural) and includes reference to "them", so it would seem that it is referring to you, Muslims (plural). The thing is, it does make a difference.

[MENCADO]

NewUC,

I have some questions about the next surah.

80:9 "Allah only forbids YOU, with regard to those who fight YOU for (your) Faith, and drive YOU out of your HOMES, and support (others) in driving YOU out, from turning to THEM (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to THEM (in these circumstances), that do wrong."

[danielnz1]

NewUC 20% of global population and a quarter of all countries have Muslim majorities. Yet theres not one of these Islamic countries globally strictly practicing political Islam with its sharia law or not that could be called anything like a freely-informed enlightened civilized society not one!

A secular World is the only sane way forward to ever achieve a sustainable future for humanity. As autocratic dogmas offer no enlightened moral alternatives at-all.

[danielnz1]

NewUC You desperately need deprogramming. All reasoned evidence points to natural cause for all things. There is absolutely no evidence for a supernatural god! And, nothing proves the man-made character of religion as obviously as the sick mind that designed hell.

[Hereticbooks]

Good one. Keep up the good work.

[asunagullo]

Well actually this guy, discussiaolasim has started a good debate: maybe the Quram was made for an enourmous amount of stupid people, as you, who believe everything to the letter, even the most hilarious things, as a hell of spawns and fire in which we ALL infidels (from Hitler to Mother Teresa)  will burn till the end of days,or that really funny issue of the 72 virgins... go on, and do not read any book, do not think at all, if you do so, you will not believe all this nonsense anymore.

[mkoe927533]

Thx! Great video!

[MENCADO]

What about surah 3:7, NewUC? Isn't there some mention of the inclusion within the Qur'an of verses that are allegorical in nature? Do you know what an allegory is and have you ever done any actual studying up on the different forms of figurative language?

[wtfisditvoorbullshit]

I wonder how discussisislam could've ever truly believed in god, his mind is much too rational for believing.

[streincarnated]

NewUC, hell is where ignorance is. So you are in hell currently...and the best part u don't even know about it. Good for you, whatever floats your boat.

[Jizuschrist]

religion makes people Olympic gold medalists in mental gymnastics.

[digitised]

Did you understand this video?

He said the quran is 'not' metaphorical, but the verses which percieve violence and hate are 'regarded' as metaphors by those defending islam as absolutely peaceful.

Why are you threatening another human being with fire and torture? Where is your humanity and compassion? Do you use your belief in a deity to justify anger and hatred towards those with different views to your own?

Surely islam is the religion of peace and tolerence is it not?

[Bashir38]

As usual, your views are built on straw man arguments. Heaven or hell, are literal places in Islam, and most importantly, are personal choices. And there are no permissions to beat one's wife, watch my video "verse 4:34", or indiscriminately slay idolaters.

[digitised]

How can they be personal choices when muslims are faced with one of the founding islamic principles that god has predetermined your entire existence?

You never have a choice if this assertion were true, you were made to win or fail and there is nothing you can do to change your fate. Allah is omnipotent, meaning he IS all things and all things happen only because HE makes them.

In true islam a man never has his own thoughts and never makes his own choices.

[Bashir38]

Your logic is as flawed as that of discussislam. God's omniscience does NOT cancel our free will.

As I said, Heaven or hell remains a purely personal choice. Your choice to believe or reject God is always your own choice. Peace

[digitised]

Omniscience is concerned with awareness. OmniPOTENCE (which is the islamic beleif of allah) is absolute by all measures.

Someone who is omnipotent is the controller of all. My omnipotence would be invalid if something else was free of my control, even if i chose it to be.

This is a paradox of omnipotence in the same vein of - a rock i cannot lift.

It would be - a mind i cannot guide.

If allah is omnipotent, then you are just an extention of gods will and not a free mind.

[digitised]

Belief itself is transient... what good is believing for a brief moment that god is real or heaven and hell really exist?

The moment i focus on other issues these conclusions dissolve and my belief is now a previous thought seperated by new experiences which may eventually result in falsifying my previous calculated response.

Beliefs are only valid at the time you hold them. They are conclusions of your decision making process which enable you to survive in an ongoing continuum of events.

[digitised]

You are forced to make decisions at all times based on available data and your minds faculty to reason.

Belief in god is not sustained, you have to reassert it continually and dogmatically.

Everybody can forget the most important things in their life. Especially when those things are not present before them.

God is relying on a poor indicator of human devotion, i would argue none such exists and the duty of religious belief is at best futile and impractical.

[ludersatan]

but is that god: allah, Odin, Vishnu or Xenu?

what makes you belive that your family religion (islam) is the correct one???

[SmoothCrunchie]

Muslims are traitors to human race bowing to a God that would send majority of people to an eternity in hell.

I would rather stand with man for a life time and spend eternity in hell than bow once to a God for entry to "heaven".

And on J day I would say here is my mind, here are my experiences you gave me... what would you of done. If he said he would not do as I had done he would be a liar.

I would never ask for forgiveness but I would forgive him since he his just a mere child of existence.

[religionInsanity]

Hi Bashir38,

You should REALLY see NonStampCollector's movie on god's free will then.

/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E

Peace

[prep4md]

The theory of a universal common descent via an evolutionary process as proposed by Charles Darwin in his book On the Origin of Species is now generally accepted by biologists and is one of the principles of evolution.

That contradicts with Quran.

[Zekkron]

I think the Qu'ran is a metaphor for the Bible.

[prep4md]

I am not sure about you, but i find sleeping with a nine year old much worse than hitting a wife.

[discussislam]

Yes, but I was focussing on the Qur'an and that is not in the Qur'an. (It is in hadith and some dispute it, as a result.)

[Zekkron]

you're metaphorical.

[UnsichtbarerGeist]

There is also a third way of interpretation: Saying, that all these verses must be seen in the historic context, and that they are not relevant any more.

Oh, and you should always put a few fading out seconds at the end of your videos to make them end less abrupt ;-).

[ionz75]

So an all-knowing God wrote his final message to mankind in such a way that its relevance would fade over time? I would expect an omniscient being to posses more foresight.

Also, was it ever moral to hit your wife?

[Eopyk]

Great video :)

All love from me

[FinallyFreeFF]

Pretty good and accurate balance here. Although I would personally be happy if every Muslim could look at the Quran metaphorically, the majority do not and never will.

It's a shame.

[ComradeAgopian]

Well done .