Response to GENOARK 'Speaking in Tongues of Holy Spirit -Testimony' (unfortunately ignored)

[timestandingstill]

When they spoke in tongues, they all understood, no confusion, Amen!

You know these who are speaking a language they don't understand, what good is it?

Faith comes from hearing and how can the word be preached unless there is a preacher, and how can a man preach, unless he is called. My question is this, If a preacher is called, then why would he preach to his people in a language they can't understand, what good is it?

I believe this is a doctrine of man. God Gave me Psalms 119 verse 104.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@timestandingstill Amen brother!

[RiversHideaway]

My persistency with you lays in that you are continuing to seek. If you had already found, you would not go about speaking against those who already have. If you held the secret of eternal life in your hands, how would determine who was worthy? Would you want just any rapist or murderer to share it with you? Your ex's new husband? that you will have to see for eternity, if you gave him the secret? You must then determine worthiness. IF one could believe in something so simple that it's ...

[RiversHideaway]

astounding, but could truly believe, then that one, would indeed be worthy to share eternal life with you, for they can now see a holiness & greatness well beyond their own existence. It transcends religion & focuses completely on true reality. Some messengers are bad, true, but their message is not. If one truly sits down, puts all other doctrine aside & simply just reads the scriptures - it is very clear - and tongues is only a basic - 1st grade - so to speak. That's all I can say any further.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway I sympathise with much of what you are saying. I also believe that true religeon trancends 'religion... and that true worshippers will worship God in the Spirit and in Truth, not with religious headknowledge or doctrines.

Tongues has nothing to do with it though. There is not a single 'individual' who ever received the sign of Tongues. Tongues were the evidence of non-jewish ethnical groups ALSO being accepted (other nations - other tongues). So thought Apostles

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine Again, knowing & understanding, and using tongues, is 101 - but must be used in order to continue onward - IF one's desire is to go into a further realm. If not used, desired, or if not believed, then there is no argument - one continues on in the same manner of life as they now live. Will one still enter into the kingdom of heaven if they truly have received Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior? Yes. But they are losing many battles by not using tongues.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway That is an interesting 'philosophy'.... chapter? verse?

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine What do you mean "philosophy?" If you have been an "elder" in the church for 18 years, as you say, you should already know these things. Did you not study and read the Holy Bible on your own? You say you have, but yet you ask very simple and very basic questions - that you, of all people, should know IF you've spent 18 years - as you say. This isn't "philosophy." This is God's word. If you are studied, like you say, then should you not be telling me where it is?

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway Friend; I can indeed not show your 'tongues battle advantage' in the bible.. simply because it is not in there. Am I meant to show a Mormon next where it says that the archangel Micheal is Christ?.. No I won't and can't, simply because it is not in the scriptures.

If you disagree then all that is required on your part is to point us to some scriptures... which you are clearly avoiding. Now - you may be avoiding this in order to avoid 'arguing'.. but still.

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine The only battle is in the minds of those who cannot or refuse to read it. I ask you to show me because you proclaim you already know & have read God's word. I already know where those scriptures are, but you insist that you have read in full - but yet cannot find them. It's one or the other. If you read in full, you should know where they are. If you didn't, then say you didn't. NO ONE is exempt from demons. Jesus wasn't either. There is no disrespect here.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway Sorry mate - I have to pass - I study the word a lot indeed. It might sound strange, but your doctrine of 'battle strength' and 'deep spiritual insight' by authentic tongues, received in the presence of the 12-13 Apostles I have not found - much less one that causes the same effects by something that involves the tongue, while not being a tongue (language) and you are supposed to seek after it. I have found no such instruction. Sooo where please?

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine This is an excellent time for you to study further!! Strike now, when the iron is hot & you have deep interest! For it is not you, nor I, that have instilled this keen interest, but God - who chose you! THIS is when you will find, because you will be truly seeking on your own - and not taking MANKIND's word for it !! God Bless you, brother! I know you'll find it!

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway I left the Pentecostal Church over a year ago (that is were I 'spoke in tongues'. There is an extreemly open mind here - but in you mindset you cannot see that. Doesn't it cross your mind to ask or to wonder why I left? What in the bible convinced me?

No my friend - you won't ask, because you know already 100% that 'demons have dragged me away from the true faith' right? Some people God can save from grave error, usually the once who are humble enough to listen.

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine I don't have to ask. I fully understand the problems associated with Pentecostal churches. There's alot of demons in Pentecostal churches for they seek man's approval - & not God's. But, that doesn't mean God's word is wrong. Their delivery is usually wrong, but their message isn't. You're my brother, in Jesus Christ. We'll meet someday. I guarantee it. Your name is written in the Book of Life. Keep seeking on your own. And, they'll be there too, like it or not.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway I also believe that there are those in the Pentecostal church who get to know God in spirit and in truth despite the misleading teachings. I do not write to make judgement who is saved and who is not. I write to help people find the true and intended teaching from the word of God.

I most certainly do not dislike Pentecostals... that would be hypocritical.. having been one for so long. I'm here to help. This false doctrine causes real harm... I have experienced it.

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine Brother, pure religion is loving God & helping widows & fatherless. There is no other. Although God is not religious, Jesus grew up Jewish. He didn't discard Judaism, He added to it. You can do the same. Don't preach against tongues - add to them. But add truth - there's immense power in praying in tongues. If those who hurt you had this power, they would not have hurt you. They only have a beginning of it - & have no love. Read on your own. Don't Listen. Read.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway It seems you have understood far less of the word than I anticipated, giving you the benefit of a doubt. Of course Jesus ended Judaism and Israel as a nation (not the people though) and the old covenant age, not during His time on earth, but through various events between pentecost and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

Thank you for constanly make me look like a hurt animal that is just reacting out of pain ;). Immense power in Tongues? Chapter? Verse?

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine You are hurt. Since you say you have read the Bible in full, but yet keep asking me for scripture, I will not then tell you until you tell me. I know where these scriptures are - you say you do - seek your own salvation. You've been told. I have done my job - it is up to you to do yours. You are so hurt that you only want to argue - and not read for yourself. You say you know & have read - in full - so therefore why should I tell you?

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway Yes you have done your job of spreading harmful philosophy, indicated that Jesus was successfully influenced by demons, presumed that demons are speaking through me, then allegedly 'bound them in the name of Jesus'.. and yet I am writing on in the same spirit. Funny - when Jesus and the Apostles prayed it worked - so either there are no demons involved here or you are mightily deluded. + you have come to the battle without a sword in your hand - no scripture yet.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway It seems you have understood far less of the word than I anticipated, giving you the benefit of a doubt. Of course Jesus ended Judaism and Israel as a nation (not the people though) and the old covenant age, not during His time on earth, but through various events between pentecost and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

Thank you for constanly make me look like a hurt animal that is just reacting out of pain ;). Immense power in Tongues? Chapter? Verse?

[RiversHideaway]

@TonguesDoctrine In the name of Jesus, let's bind up all demons, principalities, powers, rulers of darkness & spiritual wickedness in high places, & not permit them to speak any further. You have been hurt in the "church." This is why you are still seeking. You've sincerely tried, but have been stopped because of spiritual wickedness in the same place you sought so hard for approval. You were taught to seek MAN's approval - & not God's. Seek God's approval.He won't let you down.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway Oh man. You do not actually mean that these demons are speaking through me right now? This is not only wrong (since you can't convict me of an unscriptural statement), it is also very disrespectful. But I guess your unexhaustable trumph card will be 'the Holy Spirit showed me'... well.. I hope you do not use His name in vain..

[RiversHideaway]

It's all about actually reading the instructions, word for word, step by step. If one cannot do this, then the house will not be built upon a rock. Therefore, the result will be a house that does not stand firm - and will be washed away. Don't take my word for it - or anyone else's. Read it yourself & clear your head of ALL preconceived ideas, thoughts, notions, historical evaluations, etc. before doing so. Only then will it be clearly seen. It's in there.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway you may have missed something here; I was in that movement for 18 years and in the end an elder. I may imagine I know the word by word instruction that leads to Genoarks and your belief. The fact alone that you missed that doesn't exactly convince me that you are 'listening' to anything the Holy Spirit may want to show you OTHER than what you have learned from men in your denomination. I don't judge you... it took some time with me too.

[RiversHideaway]

If one was so well acquainted with the presumptuousness of implied Scriptures as you say, should then they not be telling me where they are? I know them & where they are, so do Pentecostals & Charismatics. Perhaps their delivery is not the best - but a bad messenger doesn't mean the message is untrue. You see it as not being receptive for what you call "deeper spiritual understanding." They already have it & go forward - Why go backwards? Seek out your own salvation - with fear & trembling.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway Thank you for your well meant advice. Now if you have any points to raise for arguements please do so. Otherwise ... have a nice evening.

[RiversHideaway]

Those that don't study the Word of God CANNOT possibly know there are 4 types of speaking in tongues that is mentioned in the Scriptures. They can read it with their eyes but they cannot see it since their eyes are unopened & blind. The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth - IF you study to shew yourself approved unto God and be a workman that need not to be ashamed.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@RiversHideaway I am well aquainted with such presumteous implied charges of not studying God's Word from pentecostals. For - surely IF I would study the bible - I would have come round to your view of it .. right?

I have found charismatics to be least receptive for the deeper spiritual understanding of the word... After all - they (me in the past) are already spiritual elite christians from day one by the shake of a tongue.

Now - what r the 4 kinds please? Scriptures?

[Souffra]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This shows that speaking in tongues is still alive in the church and it is not speaking a language understood by men(unless someone has the gift of interpretation) but speaking in the Spirit. I believe the gift of tongues is still available to those who believe in Jesus and who desire and pray to receive it.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@Souffra You are quoting a 2000 year old document to prove that tongue speaking is for today? There is no reference to the future, but to actual events that were happening at the time. Are you telling me that Alexander the great is currently conquering the world because we read accounts from centuries ago where he does?

you have further missed the context - the scripture is written to move people away from 'tongues' to prophecy... and the following 'tongue..edifieth himself' is a slap in the...

[Souffra]

@TonguesDoctrine Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;THEY SHALL SPEAK WITH NEW TONGUES.

If you believe that the bible is a 2000 year document that is not relevant for the current church then we can't have any discussion because I believe that the bible is the infallible and living word of God that is useful even today for us all.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@Souffra Ok, and now go to the context and realise Jesus is not talking to you but to his chosen 12 apostles here. And while they were going forth to preach, God would be with them and work signs on those who believed their word. The end of the chapter lists the fulfilmet: And God worked with THEM confirming the word with the signs following.

If you do not believe me, then please produce JUST ONE SINGLE REFERENCE of speaks in tongues induction in the absense of an Apostle? Good luck ;)

[Souffra]

In the same 1 Corinthians Paul strongly speaks against fornication, since that was 2000 years ago does that mean that nowadays it is ok to fornicate? He also spoke about the gift of healing, so that is not relevant to the church nowadays?

Paul wasn't rebuking people against speaking in tongues but limiting them so that everyone could be edified, if it was during a service it was supposed to be interpreted if not, then the person had do it in private. He was emphasizing edification of everyone.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@Souffra Of course everything written 2000 years ago is relevant for today, but the events contained in a 2000 year old are those happening back then. Unless you can produce a single biblical reference that explains anything else than the signs operating at the time and addressing the future? Maybe you can point out a single individual that was not part of the Apostolic team and healed? Or a single individual (not ethnic groups)in the bible who spoke in tongues at conversion?

[TonguesDoctrine]

@Souffra ...face in the context of three 3(!!!) admonitions (1cor 12-14) that gifts are for the edification of the others/church and not for self benefit. The very scriptture u cite starts with a 'for (because)'. RATHER PROPHESY... because tongue speakers in Corinth 'edified' them/their self's and had no concept of love, the body of many members, humility, service etc.. BUT PROPHESY edifieth the congregation. You might also want to ask yourself how Paul dared tolimit the alleged operation of...

[TonguesDoctrine]

@Souffra ..the Holy Ghost? How dare he limit it to 2 to 3 max tongues? And how dare he forbid them to speak unless there is an interpreter? And how dare he commanding 'tongue speakers' to pray for the gift of interpretation?..No other gift get's such a censuring? Obviously no such restrictions were ever dared to be put in place in ACTS? Why? In ACTS tongues even overruled Apostles and appeased the jewish believers.. in Corinth Paul does everything to reduce it.

[Souffra]

@TonguesDoctrine I believe the reason Paul restricted speaking in tongues to two or three persons is because they needed interpretation. Imagine 5 people speaking in tongues at once, then there had to be 5 people to interpret and still it would be a chaotic scene. He emphasized order, by saying that God is not the author of confusion. He encouraged them to desire to prophesy and not to forbid-which you are exactly doing) speaking in tongues. All gifts of the Holy Spirit are available even now

[Souffra]

Paul says in Corinthians that if one speaks in tongues during a service, then there should be another to interpret(which is another gift) Otherwise the person should keep silent and pray in tongues when alone for self edification. I believe the tongues during Pentecost were a sign for the unbelievers to believe in Jesus. Because they could hear Jews(disciples) speaking in their various languages and know truly it is only God who could make that possible (That was a sign or a miracle so to speak)

[TonguesDoctrine]

@Souffra I will make a video about 1 Cor 12-14 soon. The space here does not suffice.

[ServantofChrist007]

@TonguesDoctrine Hello i just wanted to let you know that I have a video I created which goes into very great detail called:

"The true gift of speaking in tongues" I think you will find it useful.

God Bless!!

[aaronyork]

TongueDoctrine: Im not sure if I missed it or not in your video, but in short what is your say for "Tongues" today within the church?

Also, you stated of your 18 of talking in "Tongues" or "Gibberish", is this because you felt this was not a Earthly language that it should not be spoken of?

[TonguesDoctrine]

@aaronyork in short... I would say that the tongues today 'within the church' are not authentic. People get coached and indirectly (more or less) prepared and taught how to do it... themselves. I do not believe it is demonic, nor is it from the Holy Spirit.

Also, Paulnever actually taught that tongue speakers in his time were speaking in tongues of angles... he was setting unachievable extreems to highlight his point like: and if i could lift 2 tons; God would still be stronger.

[nikechic619]

Tongues speakers do not understand justification, regeneration, sanctification. Only the Holy Spirit allows a person to discern true salvation.

[nikechic619]

Interesting how tongues sounds the same all throughout the world. Do you think it is demonic? It sounds like the chanting of pagans.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@nikechic619 I do not think it is demonic. It falls more under the category self/hypnosis. The hypnotist actually does not supernaturally 'force' the victim to actions against their will, but rather creates a situation and environment in which the victim becomes willing to cooperate and go along with the illusion, deceiving themselves.

Unless one would go as far as calling the whole modern doctrine a doctrine of devils... then it would be indirectly demonic.. but there is no demonic 'force'.

[nikechic619]

How do we know a real Christian? We know them by their fruits of the Spirit. Most tongues speakers are contentious and mean. They find it hard to show the love of Christ. Brothaminister is the same way. They are all indulging in the lusts of the flesh.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@nikechic619 I see where you are coming from and tend to agree that the doctrine and practice has that effect on people in general. I would however not go so far to make a general judgement on all or most tongue speakers as being mean. There are many sincere christians among them, many of them yet to wake up to the truth and walking before the Lord in all love and sincerity, being justified by the gospel.

[RiversHideaway]

@nikechic619 I have to agree with you on what you said about most tongues speakers are contentious & mean. The flesh rises up & gives them a false self-importance: "I must be better than anyone since I received." This is the same attitude as many wealthy people. This should not be. This is wrong. LOVE IS the most important thing. 1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

[RiversHideaway]

... it does not help the kingdom of heaven - AT ALL - for tongues speakers to be this way. It only hinders the entrance for others. Who would want to be like them? I don't. I don't want to go to a heaven where only mean, tongue speakers are going to live eternally - with me. Jesus spoke against this too. "...for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." Matthew 23:13

[genoark]

@TonguesDoctrine tongues is not babbling its language just like codes 010101010101000100111 you don't need to understand codes until it is fully downloaded. then it becomes a program, then it is a picture, then it is something tangible. but if you pray 1 min in tongues what is that code? an unfinished download. that's why you lost to deception never being faithful to the gift speaking it more than 2 hours a day. at least. If you had noticed the difference then you will know what program has dld

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark there were certainly days where I gibbert for more than 2 hours. So my download is incomplete is it? Praise the Lord for the firewall and virus killer hoho :) Please stop now Genoark, this is getting below a certain level of serious discussion based on scripture.

[TonguesDoctrine]

Ok Genoark, I understand you. Your doctrine is however not correct and it would harm neither you nor me to always keep an open ear and heart. Also - why are you afraid to have this discussion on your comment page? Surely you could demonstrate to your listeners the superior biblical accuracy of your doctrine that way?

This 'we are right anyway' is one of the most severe sicknesses of denominations that guarantee continual splits in the body of christ... eve though in truth it cannot be devided.

[genoark]

@TonguesDoctrine Are u serious? then why don't u post my video in the response? that was full of scriptures interpreted correctly not incorrectly to deceive anyone. I would not dare to deceive people of God

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark I am serious and will post your video response... despite you disapproving mine.. which I sent first.

I actually do not think you are intentionally deceiving people, you are quiet sincere. Also don't wonder when deceit came in.. it is the natyral state of your mind which you need to renew towards TRUTH, which takes time. You are clearly not ready yet to teach.

[genoark]

Why is it that you don't want gift of tongues? its clearly 9 gifts of the HOly Spirit! why do you prefer not? why? because its strange? ofcourse it is strange being language that you don't know. there are over 6000+ languages in the world. you don't know all of them do you? yet how you judge a language with your lack or knowledge on languages? You don't believe because its strange that's all. but its all in the Bible and I have proved my point in that video. If you'd pay attention you'll get it.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark THINK! I spoke in supposed tongues for 18 years. You may fool yourself and people who believe your supposed miraculous way of surrendering your reason to talking gibberish... but certainly not me who know it inside out?

You have fallen prey to your own partiality in quoting the 'most fitting' bible translation. The scripture is clearly the 'understanding/mind/reason/int­ellect is unfruitful/barren/beareth no fruit/not beneficial' and not 'he doesn't understand it'. cont..

[genoark]

@TonguesDoctrine were u able to speak in tongues and read a book at the same time? Because If you can and the tongues sentence structure does not change then it's not you whos making it up.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark wow... now I am impressed. May I humbly request 'any' scriptural basis for your theory? Also, I was and elder for a number of years and our church was in 18 countries. I have meet many a tongue speaker and see myself in a position to compare. It's all the same wherever you go. From Korea, over the west to Europe.

Now please give us a scripture, so we can see you are not continuing on the path of self-invented doctrines.

[TonguesDoctrine]

Yes I AM able to speak gibberish and read a book, calculate and deeply meditate upon the word of God, without any structural changes to my 'sentences'. I have further laid my hands on converts and lead them to the same ability... you get the hang of it after a while ...

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark ...cont.. the mind of Christ IS the mind of the Spirit and we do well meditating and reasoning deeply about the words of God, which ARE Spirit and life... while praying. Be not like the gentiles/ vain repetitions/ thinking they will be heard for much speaking, for God knoweth what you have need of BEFORE you speak.

[genoark]

@TonguesDoctrine then you shouldn't pray at all.

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark I think I will chose to obey God more than you in the matter... God bless.

[genoark]

Ignored because its wrong. that's all

[TonguesDoctrine]

@genoark Yah, I know a lot of believers who ignore correction and advice from fellow christians. We are however prompted to be subject one to another and submit ourselves one to another.

[genoark]

@TonguesDoctrine if you were correct I would have let you in. but its not, so I cannot let uncorrect doctrine correct me or else I will fail in life due to your incorrect teaching.

[ServantofChrist007]

@genoark I have taken the time to send you a video which explains all of the falsehoods you believe about this gift, yet you are being willingly ignorant to the truth . I remember when i first saw your video months ago and i commented with reproof and you ignored it. Months later i created a video about this topic and you were the first person The Lord put in my mind to send it to. I understand that you are sincere, but you are sincerely wrong. Lean not on your own understanding. repent

[ServantofChrist007]

@TonguesDoctrine Hey bro check out my video i created and share it with those who are deceived by this doctrine.

it's titled "The true gift of speaking in tongues" it goes from the Old testament to the new testament in chronological order explaing this gift in great detail.

God bless!

[TonguesDoctrine]

@ServantofChrist007 Thank you bro! I think I have already watched it. Thank you for sharing!

[alamo11]

praying in the spirit is ..... praying in the spirit. Simple. I am still working through this subject. For me proof of the supernatural (not baptism of THS ) is speeking in intelligable tongues. I do hope you do some more videos.