"People Know they are sinners"? [Response to Joel Osteen]

[refimanloans]

Wrong, take it from a former corrections officer and deputy sheriff, people know they are wrong when they do evil deeds. They do not have to be "saved' first or receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to recognize they are performing sin. Enough said, Joel's mission is to get them in, don't worry he has a professional staff to lead them down the Roman's road. Joel's blessed, it's no accident Lakewood is #1, he is on the right track and he is driven by the Holy Spirit. Joel's in my prayers.

[1Cor2two]

"They do not have to be "saved' first or receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to recognize they are performing sin."

The Pastor didn't say that and you are misquoting him. He said most don't recognize they are sinners in the biblical sense. Just view some of "The Way of the Master" interviews of people on the street. Many feel they are okay.

[refimanloans]

You have to read my comment again, why is it so difficult for you to understand? You missed my point by miles...people know they are evil, get it? Sorry, I cannot be more plain in dialog.

[1Cor2two]

Simply put, you cannot bypass the Cross and confronting people with their sins to properly minister the gospel. THe early church preached faith AND repentance. You can't just add Jesus onto your sinful life and be saved. There needs to be a complete surrender to Him.

[refimanloans]

You still don't get, forget about your attempts to explain Gospel. My case is this, now read it s l o w. The sinner KNOWS he is doing wrong,that's it, period. If he is a rapist, arsonist, bank robber, murderer etc. He doesn't need Joel or anyone else to tell him he is a sinner. Remember "all men are wicked, evil and deceitful"...sorry, can't remember chapter line and verse. That's my point, man knows when he is doing evil deeds, that's it.

[1Cor2two]

So basically you don't believe in spiritual blindness. have you ever watched those "Way of the Master" interviews? btw- I've also been in those correctional facilities but for me it was as an inmate. Most people I talked to, and knew believed they were somehow a victim, not a criminal. They were a product of society or their environment.

[refimanloans]

That's interesting and I can believe that some inmates are victims like the person that was along for "the ride" and the driver got out and robbed the liquor store. Of course the guy or girl never dreamed they would be an accessory to armed robbery, did they? Who knows, it could happen. "Spiritual Blindness" come on now don't read into anymore than what I said..when they did the above they knew it was wrong. You were not in prison for being late for church, right?

[1Cor2two]

I didn't recognize the sinfulness of my life. I thought I could just reprogram myself and learns some principles. Tried psychology, acupuncture, counselors, 12 step programs and who knows what else. but it wasn't until I saw the sin problem between me and a HOLY God. Ministers need to point out the sin between Man and a Holy God.

[NotYourTypicalNegro]

I GREATLY enjoyed being at this church and hearing this message!