You Can't Win With Jehovah's Witnesses - You're Double Damned Either Way

[xenonfear]

Staying purely neutral on this.

But to the gentleman in the video, I'd recommend seeking mental help. Seriously.

And move on.

[propagandatechniques]

@xenonfear Many have sought mental help after escaping the WTS and were told the same thing; helping others find their way out of this destructive cult would be the best therapy.

[indecisiveone07]

ha ha...what a fucking joke!

[BianchiRoadshow]

Like when they'd throw a woman into the water -- if she stayed afloat, then she was a witch; if she sank ... well, then I guess that she wasn't. Either way, the woman didn't win. =(

[XTJimbo2010]

It's true. You can never win a logical debate with someone who thinks that all the earth's animals species existed within walking distance of a 600 year old alcoholic's ark.

[justice1954]

RE: lost humility... it's almost like how soldiers (correct me if I'm wrong, with all respect) are put through 'finishing-school' when they finish their ties with the military as they have to re-integrate

with society. (expand on this Dustin if you're there) They have to be 'decompressed' / mind-cleansed in order to 'turn off' some of the programming.

[justice1954]

double bind... double standard... double annoying hypocrites... and what's worse, if they are pointed out, they 'move the goal posts' / backpedal. If you can get a JW to listen, pointing out the backpedaling concept will help some over time. It's a way of introducing self-awareness. I haven't had as much luck with the double bind... perhaps the backpedaling has to be disarmed first? ... perhaps it's related on a subconscious level. Even Ray Franz said that JWs lack humility in his book COC.

[JoepublisherNY]

Right on PT! Through propaganda in the pages of the WTS literature, WT conventions, etc. and "group-think" re-inforcement by fellow JWs, their brain has a difficult time seeing the fallacy in their reasoning! All of us who have been awakened relied on videos [like yours] that helped us to learn to think for ourselves [again]! Thanks PT!

[LAGAMER50]

Christians have the same line of thinking, for example, if a christian gets killed in a car wreck other christians say the lord toke him, if a christian survives a car wreck other christians say the lord saved him and if something bad happens to a christian he is paying for his sins.

[thepixieful1]

@LAGAMER50 this can be a dangerous line of reasoning regarding health. old rabbi wrote a neat book called "when bad things happen to good people" we live in a polluted world, some people have a gene for diabetes for example. those adults or kids are not "bad". even solomon noted "how the wicked prosper" he was mad about that. but it happens. stuff happens.

[NICH0LASM]

@thepixieful1 the polluted world, (which is a bit over the top because its not that bad), is not to blame for illness that is frequent among generations.

[NICH0LASM]

It's no different to circular reason by 'definition' ;-) . All religion is persecuted because they are all equally lacking in any substance. One thing i was considering the other day is at the time of the start of Christianity i bet many other religions at the time treated them like Christians do to witnesses and other right wing arms today. Funny how opinions change after a few thousand years, and how fail logic becomes a "solid" premise.

[thepixieful1]

@NICH0LASM wow, you and I agree there. have a good day.

[NICH0LASM]

@thepixieful1 You agree with all stuff that might make the jehovah witnesses look at little less evil and insane. I think you are one of those apologetic types. ;-)

[thepixieful]

from a legal perspective the library book was 700 pages, I do not have the title, not a WT publication, tell all the cases it did worth regarding freedom of religion and might be of interest to you as legal scholar. on line book shoppe with boolean search of JW and legal should have it I have seen it in four libraries. quite scholarly. lots of cases in 1940's and 1950's a must have for any attorney who wants to specialize in freedom of religion.

[propagandatechniques]

@thepixieful All I had to do was type "Jehovah's Witnesses" in my Google notifications and now see on a regular basis all the cases they've lost in the past six months.

They won the right to preach house to house in spite of the fact Jesus said not to be transferring from house to house. That must have been Jehovah's backing.

[thepixieful1]

@propagandatechniques yes they have not had the string of success as when old Covington was in town. his firm is still going as you know. also Newseum is worth the admission fun museum of news headlines (Pearl Harbor with drawer that has Hawaii paper of that day, of the entire history of printing and our wonderful bill of rights. new in DC. be well.

P.S. and my old typewriter.

[thepixieful]

book note: The New World Order by Samuel Zane Batten published I think 1919.....this spells it out better than orwell as far as JW....check it out....surprised even me.

[Bellerspitts]

there's a picture of a man behind you on the wall.hmm, Idolatry!

[anissueofursincerity]

How does he know what the scale of anybody's preaching is except what the WT has told him?

When a big wind blows down a building and the JW and left without a scratch if proves they are God's ppl and he protected them. When a group of them are killed it proves they are God's ppl because they are persecuted.

[thepixieful1]

@anissueofursincerity quake in Haiti fell on both groups some JW died too, sad day for all....the world is oddly getting to be a more honest place....CNN and internet.

[survivalrod]

On an individual level I remember so many JWs saying things like "They got the job with Jehovah's help". Yet when someone loses their job it's "Satan is testing them".

[thepixieful1]

@survivalrod well networking every week with ANY group of people does help if you need work.....

[survivalrod]

@thepixieful1 Yes I noticed that. Like when I was 15 I was coerced into refusing further education and into accepting a "job" with brothers. I was paid me below minimum wages (illegal in my country), then told not to lodge a formal complaint when I injured my leg they didn't follow legal safety guidelines or have insurance (again illegal). Great "brotherly love".

[thepixieful]

this week case was heard, woman fired from a church school she had narcolepsy.....the highest court ruled that churches can determine it their way....just so you can stay current. I know school is time consuming, keep at it....but check court THIS week. also JW cases had 16 precedent in 1600 or so....as I noted to you Bill Bowen has figures. the payout for WTB&T losing was big bucks, he would know figure.

[BianchiRoadshow]

I caught that too when I watched that vid about the Supreme Court cases all over the world. Nitwit is right.

[thehappyfreethinker]

Covering all bases with double binds... classic ericsonnian hypnotic language patterns!

[thepixieful1]

@thehappyfreethinker yes.

[De5O54]

At 0;23 to 0;41 there is a male talking. It would sound like a member of the JW cult.

The tone as well as the words are that of bragging bluster, that's how it sounds.

A clashing cymbal is what is clearly noted in the bible as being undesireable. A sounding piece of brass. If those people talking are running through a list of all their wins && accomplishments, then it is very difficult to see them as being false christians, let alone would-be 'true christians'.

Bragging proud jactitation.

[Jevachi]

JW:"Oh this system is so wicked, we truly are in the time of the end."

Vachi:"You do know that statistically crime has gone down in recent years don't you?"

JW:"Really? Oh I mean yes! It is written that the nations will cry peace and then the end will come. We truly are in the time of the end."

Vachi: -_-'

[clnmyjts]

Cool Hand Luke - Failure to Communicate /watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ

[hilldiggity]

@clnmyjts Always makes me think of the intro to Guns n' Roses 'Civil War'. That song is still kick ass.

[squirrly001]

Totally.....they win if they win and they win if they lose.....

[SpecialPioneerSmerf]

I love to knock this tactic with on it's ass with an oh so very useful counter:

'This is also what happens to other religions as well, FLDS, Scientology, radical Islam, radical Christianity, and especially Jews for example.

There we go, their not a special snowflake after all ;)

[TheRecoveringZombie]

This is one of the fairly recent things that has pissed me off. Let's take Russia. When the iron curtain fell, many religious groups besides the JWs went there to proselytize. Even the Hare Krishnas I believe. Anyway, the Russians were sitting ducks for brainwashing b/c of the former Soviet Union's restriction on religious activity, only the Russian Orthodox church was tolerated. So in an effort to protect the citizenry, Russia is cracking down on extremist religions and cults. Sorry WT!

[TheRecoveringZombie]

Part 2. What's pissing me off are JWs claiming persecution in Russia like it's only happening to them. It's not. A lot of religious groups are getting banned over there when they're found to be extremist.

But besides that, historically a lot of religions have been "persecuted." Take the Mormons for instance.

But you know, according to the WT, it's all about them. Always.

F*ckers.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

@TheRecoveringZombie

Even in Georgia, The brothers there were indeed persecuted pretty badly with violence but the WT frames it in their literature like they alone were singled out for brutal attack, When you actually read the news reports it was pretty clearly directed at all protestant missionaries not just the JW's, It was a multi-faith class action effort to petition the U.S senate to pressure the Georgian authorities in Tbilisi to clamp down on orthodox extremists.

[De5O54]

@TheRecoveringZombie "JWs claiming persecution in Russia"

Correct. The Salvation Army was kicked out of Russia the other year, they said as they were an 'army' and may undermine the state. -- To that effect.

Whether the main kremlin in Russia believed so, or it was a mere given reason is a matter for them. But as has been noted, when it is dubs that get to come up against a barrier, it is because they have 'the truth' (Russian; 'Pravda') && that is why they are persecuted, hindered, or both.

[thepixieful1]

@De5O54 I am no fan of that system they do not have the freedom of religion I have. I can believe anything or nothing, it is up to me....no state church, either.......it is wonderful. that russian footage was brutal and sad. be well.

[DesmosediciAlice]

...damn right, bravo propman , bravo, that was awesome

[1914watcher]

Yup, I hear this all the time. You go take away 1914 using the bible and they get REALLY upset!

Dang persecution. ;)

[thepixieful1]

@1914watcher as a historian and taking the JW kid out of it, all historians agree watch neat documentary The Great War. it changed EU beginning of chem war and end of civilized parties. also PBS D. Abbey is on Sundays about same era if you like soap operas. christian, pagan or atheist it was pivotal in history.

[Danmera]

I love it when you do these.

[RadarKat73080]

JWS: Being fed to lions<being disagreed with.