Marcus Borg - Christianity as a Spiritual Path

[Idahoprospector]

Marcus Borg is to Christianity what Deepak Chopra is to Eastern Mysticism

[Discerner1999]

I guess Mr Borg would not want to be "bothered" with helping a stranger when he is going somewhere :( See the Good Samaritan Luke 10:30-37

[davrobwil99]

U will be assimilated into our way of life. We are the BORG we will make u like us.

[woobstoob]

Oh dear.. progressive christianity...heresy

[aaron10612]

I haven't met many Christians in my life.

[aaron10612]

As followers of the Ways of Jesus one must always remember that we can all be very good Christians but none of us are perfect Christians. I think this is the one thing that us Christians get hung up on the most. Me personally, I'm a better sinner than most none believers, I know what is right and still give into the world. I have stopped going to church because it turned into a how big of a sinful person I am. The women treated me like stranger danger. How will we know each other? Our love?Hum?

[Moussafoster]

Brother Borg, thank you for affirming insights I have carried with me since my early 20s by NOT avoiding conversations on planes. I apologize for being one of those persons who reads, rests AND enters dialogues with "strangers" on planes :-)

Your is a rich and robust interpretation!

[jhgosnell]

I think that the literal-mythic level has some good points in it...but Christ doesn't come alive for me until the rational and intuitive levels have been entered into. He is a good representative of this movement. Every perspective has some uses...and...let's do adult practice. If Jesus' words come from a higher unified level of being...they cannot be read fully at a concrete level of thinking...nor can they fully be handled at a rational-materialistic science level. Until science goes deeper.

[Dramatis11]

This made me furious. He didn't nail it, he totally missed the nail by a mile. Everything he said contradicts what Christ said in scripture. That and his patronistic tone when he said the words/ phrases "transformation," "The Way," "Kingdom of God," and "The Cross" really was uncalled for and pointless. He was doubting the reliability and infalibility of Scripture the entire time. Oh, and believing on only ONE way is not a modern concept, his is a modern concept.

[jhgosnell]

@Dramatis11 I think people are entiltled to more literal readings if that is more meaningful to them. Some people are more interpretive because it's the only way it can still make sense to them.

[Dramatis11]

@jhgosnell I see your point, I do not agree with it, but I see where you are coming from. The only thing is, Borg wasn't loosely interpreting Scripture, he was completely misquoting it. OK, yes there are certain things that can be interpreted in different ways (i.e. whether the days of creation are literal 24 hour days or long passages of time), but the words of Jesus are most definitely not to be "interpreted" to make one feel more comfortable. There is more, but now is not the time or place.

[jhgosnell]

@Dramatis11 Cool..."To make one more comfortable" would mostly be a bad goal I think as well. Maybe then your ego interprets. By "interpret" I mean get the deeper meaning he is conveying. He often doesn't state it explicitly...which he why he keeps saying...for those who have ears to hear. So, a lot of it needs to be read, "interpreted," with our spirtual heart. In many instances, more literal people seem to have a hard time doing this and mis-read the teachings.

[Dramatis11]

@jhgosnell I agree with pretty much all of what you are saying, up until your last statement. I would have to argue that it isn't usually the case, especially when referring to the Gospels. Yes, some of the parables can be vague, but in the majority there are detailed explanations, by Jesus himself, which state exactly what He means. So, with your argument that literal people seem to mis-read the teaching, I would like an example from scripture and a mis-interpretation that you have experienced.

[jhgosnell]

@Dramatis11 They are purposefully vague to draw the listener in and bypass the intellect to some degree. In other traditions, poetry and riddles do this same thing. One obvious one is love your neighbor AS yourself. This usually gets read as love your neighbor "as much as yourself." But, many people have noted, from a unified level of heart-mind, this likely means "see yourself in your neighbor." Or, in other words, see Christ in your neighbor...you all share the same nature...or true nature.

[Dramatis11]

@jhgosnell The example that you have given from Luke 10 (NIV) is one that I, honestly, have never heard as a vague verse in the Bible, or as one misconstrued from another meaning. Now, of course this does not mean that I do not have response. The way that you stated what "Love your neighbor as yourself," REALLY means only was the verse restated in a more complex and 'philosophical' way.; the same meaning is derived.

[Dramatis11]

@jhgosnell... The only thing that your explanation did was to complicate and restate a meaning that was clearly already stated. Oh, and one other point : I am just curious if you read the parable surrounding that particular verse. It is within the section marked the Parable of the Good Samaritan and that parable is a clear example of what Christ was talking about. If this was not a good example, I would be happy to discuss another one. And P.S. This is a really great discussion.

[Dramatis11]

@jhgosnell Oh, by the way: this is a great discussion. :)

[Portubed]

Check Ratzinger/Benedict XVI ("Introduction to Christianity"; "Deus caritas est"; "Jesus of Nazareth"; "God Is Near Us"). Way more substantial and fulfilling insights.

[garmaxco]

I wonder how many people are watching this just to reassure themselves that others agree with their understanding of Christianity?

[BAPP04]

Forceful Religious Conversion of Buddhists into Christianity at Changlang Distt. Of Arunachal Pradesh and nexus of such activists with underground Militants

buddhistchannel.tv

[jackooboy1]

It's called the unitarian church.

[daveme7]

There is only one way and this way is through a narrow door and a narrow way and is only through Christ. Please-so much is described as modern so we can define that we must leave modernism therefore leave the bible and Christianity despite the bible being written long before modernism

[grandtorro]

Knowledge and science are for everyone they don't have to be illuminated to get it and make understandable lies.

[BlueKewne]

Assimilation is inevitable.

[fctchk]

"No one doubted the existence of God until theologians starting trying to prove his existence."

[wookie72]

That's essentially the argument that Karen Armstrong makes in her new book, which is pretty great, btw.

[cdphatty]

close enough. i recommend the book "behold the spirit" by alan watts to get a better idea of mystical christianity, which is what this guy is trying to talk about.

[intricatic]

You can't remove a personal God from Christianity and still have anything meaningful left over.

[TheSmash4cash]

Completely wrong...You are telling me that the morals and ethics that Jesus teaches in the gospels is meaningless? You don't have to believe in God to get something out of Jesus' teachings. Open your mind.

[pt1200]

Genocidal Christianity is a hoax. Christianity is Roman war propaganda against the Jews and nonwhites. New testament was written by Romans to demean and destroy Judaism. Titus Flavius who destroyed the Jewish Temple commissioned the Christian hoax as a replacement for Judaism. Titus' Flavius military campaign against Jerusalem was transformed into Jesus' ministry against Judaism

Search "Joseph Atwill" -author Caesar's Messiah

See youtube video- watch?v=dCNJf83bqjs

[hopkins4545]

Brilliant.  I'm Catholic and I love this. I get tired of saying it, but I will again: one can be a LIBERAL CATHOLIC AND SURVIVE

[TheBobcatChannel]

EXACTLY!!!!!

[Oceananswer]

I want catholosism in my life but I take religion for my entire life and i'm shocked that atheists mock catholosism and christianity

[Unityspirit50]

well dealing with egotiscal fundamentalists is a pain sometimes.. its like talking to cult members.. So i know what hes talking about.. single minded folks arent looking for truth. they want the world to follow there own truth..

[bearnurse1]

It's supposed to be First Congregational Church of Berkeley, not First Congressional Church.. Excellent talk by Borg!

[Matty272]

The way incarnated itself as Jesus. But I think anyone can incarnate the way. Its just that the majority of humanity has failed miserably to do so. If Jesus is the only way and those who refuse are doomed for an eternity in hell, well I think his plan was ineffective. Seeing as how in a world of billions, why would humanity's salvation lie solely on a man who's only know to people in the middle east until about 400 years later.

[astrubator]

a little arrogant to start...but I like the political focus as that is much more a part of religion than we'd like to think. And while this was not okay in the Crusades it certainly may save that dead bone of faith we toss unaware

[OttoManic]

Regardless of your beliefs - or lack thereof - blatantly attacking those of another is nothing short of the worst sort of bigotry. And by that, I mean the type of bigotry that you try to place on the believer with your spiteful comments.

[briddle2]

If Jesus wasn't attacking beliefs why was He so hated? But I understand what you're saying, ie, to score points with others you have to be nice. In this forum you get a lot of people being deliberately hostile for no reason, but here you have a real war between God's people and Lucifer's people. Jesus didn't say He was "a" way He said He was "the" way, the truth and the life. Borg leaves out John 14:6 so obviously to "preach another gospel" 2 Corinthians 11:4. But he don't know it... yet.

[Unityspirit50]

'the way ' is like an object.. its like saying road.. street.. that street anyone can use. its not a road strictly made from one group to travel on. the way is that way.. its universal.. not a diverse groups ownership of it.

[Stellax98]

So why is it then that charles darwin and his beliefs are even more hated by most of the world the jesus and his teachings? Explain mr atheist?

[quark937]

That's an easy one.

First of all, Charles Darwin is not hated by most of the world, only by fundamentalist Christians (which are a small minority of the world's population)

It's because those fundamentalist Christians are filled with a lot more hatred that the average person.

As Mahatma Gandhi told a Britisher.

"i like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[MuslimApostate]

actually majority of the world while maybe not hating certainly don't agree with him and no its definatly not just fundie christians. I have no idea where you get your info from but i live in china a secular nation and the only thing taught about darwin is that he was a racist who used science to justify his beliefs of manifest destiny and that he was an inspiration to mao zhedong, china's greatest mass murdering dictator.

[MuslimApostate]

In the rest of asia love for darwinian belief isn't much respected either especially considering that like religions his theories have et to be given conclusive proof and many scientisits in both china and japan already have refuted several of his theories by proving hem wrong. And of course if you were to travel around the muslim world you will find no love of darwinian beliefs either.

[MuslimApostate]

Hell i'm not even religious anymore but i still don't take darwins broken theories very seriously given the amount of aposition in the world to them. The west is not the rest of the world quark its best you face up to it cause most people will disagree with you.

[alien8ted]

Holy crap! Just when you thought Captain Picard had finally defeated the Borg, they're back, but now trying to assimilate us all into the hive-mind of a profoundly delusional religious sect! Will these inhuman drones stop at nothing?

[wookie72]

C'mon, if the Borg came on like Marcus, Picard would have invited him in for a nice cup of tea, Earl Gray, Hot, and they would have had a lovely time.

[TLucretiusCarus]

They may have even blasted classical music, so to watch their glasses vibrate as they gaze at the cosmos.

[gareof]

If you don't take the Bible literally (except where it's obvious symbolic: "Gospel a seed that falls"."I am the Way, the door, the bread, etc.)then you are free to interpret the Word any way YOU want, as Mr Borg & most "modern scholars" take it. Why teach it? Because it is the broad way: "well, to each his own"..it's not that important..yet it is the MOST important decision you will ever make.. Read your "red letter edition" see what Jesus says..take it seriously as did the Bereans Acts 17:11

[zorasterman]

The "except where it's obvious[ly] symbolic" that you refer to may be very different for different people yet the self-righteous simply refuse to see it. Eg, if Jesus = Logos = Wisdom as described in John 1, then some people could find it obvious that "I am the way" is meant symbolically. You seem to hold an extremely self-righteous worldview: other people's "obvious" MUST agree with yours. You are clearly interpreting the Bible the way YOU want - the very thing you accuse others of doing.

[zorasterman]

Post was in response to gareof.

[gareof]

I would much rather "do my own thing".. however, when Christ made Himself known to me, I was forced, by His Love, to change my worldview, and take His Word as the Way, The Truth and The Life, literally...in other words, my opinion means nothing, and very few, in this world, agree with me or with The Bible and I don't expect them to agree - It just seems clear to me, that you can make any book say whatever you want it to say if you just "spiritualize" everything in it

[zorasterman]

Literally? "Hate" literally? Luke 14:26? Remember, you said to take it literally and that your opinion means nothing.

[gareof]

but without the Spirit of God you will not understand the literal or the Spiritual interpretation of God's Word, 1 Corinthians 2:13-14

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Well, to his credit, marcus Borg is a well established contemporary christian scholar even if you may not agree with his theology. Now, turn if you will to Matthew chapter 1 verse 21. what does it say?

[boroskazai]

Can I remind all these pious Christians that the ancient Greek doesn't mean 'the [one & only] way'? Don't read too much into your translation.

[TheBibleMatters]

John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through Me." Well I guess you can get away with saying "the way, the truth and the life" are not exclusive, but you cant say "no one comes to the father except through Me." is anything but exclusive. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the only way. Seems fairly straight forward to me.

[billiefan2000]

boro have you read 2 timothy 4:3-4

[Eleazarsc]

Baristaboy2 is correct. Mr. Borg clearly sees Christianity as just another nice path in life. Jesus clearly states in John 14:6 "I am THE WAY, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through Me." Christianity is not just a path to a great and meaningfully life. It is more importantly a way to have a relationship with our creator and Lord, Jesus Christ.

[baristaboy2]

This man is surely not a christian..its a shame you people actually belive this dribble..he takes the CHRIST out of Christianity

[SJP3793]

This person is good. He is a Christian with his head on his shoulders, unlike conservative christians.

[billiefan2000]

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

[Ashiman12]

I'm assuming - and a thousand pardons if the assumption is incorrect - that you are saying that of progressive Christians like Mr. Borg and the denominations that have a place for them. If that assumption is right, then it's amazing how people can read a verse like that and automatically assume it speaks of people they disagree with, but never of them.

[Eleazarsc]

I would side with billienfan2000 on this one. The issue is not if I agree/disagree with Mr. Borg. The issue is what does the Bible say, not what do I feel the Bible is saying. Mr. Borg is interpreting the Bible in a postmodern/moral relativistic way (non literal). The Bible needs to be interpreted as literal and relevant in all cultures and times. (Hebrews 4:12, 2 Timothy 3:16)

[Ashiman12]

Well, I think Mr. Borg is doing the Bible more justice by seeking an honest historical understanding of it and appreciating its metaphorical meanings than people who insist on a primarily literal understanding do. The assumption that the Bible must be literally true in order to be true at all is as Modernistic one, and not in keeping with pre-modern understanding of sacred scripture.

[Eleazarsc]

I respect your opinion, but its not enough to just "THINK, Mr. Borg is doing the Bible more justice". The Bible is fairly strait forward when it come to what is literal. Yes, the Bible does have text that is not to be taken literally, like the parables, and similes (when Jesus equates the kingdom of heaven to being like...).

[Eleazarsc]

But outside of that, I see no other reason to question it as the literal word of God and history. Unless you don't believe in the metaphysical and force your opinions into the interpretation. So, I must ask. What makes you think the Bible is not literal? Do you have any proofs to backup your claim?

[Ashiman12]

Well, for one, pre-modern writers were predominantly more concerned with conveying meaning than they were with accurately recording history. Mr. Borg, in his books, does a pretty good job of analyzing biblical texts and non-literal meanings they could have. If a literal interpretation works for you, then great. I find a "historical-metaphorical" understanding more profound, though. To each his own, though.

[Ashiman12]

When I finally rediscovered Christianity after years of spiritual searching, I began reading and studying and forming my own theology based on what I'd learned. But for a long time, my theology was vague and losely defined. Then I read Marcus Borg and not only did I agree with him almost universally, but he laid it all out much better than I ever could.

[James1261]

I wish that there was more people like Marcus Burg, John Crossan, and Bishop Shelby Spong.

[RadicalWhig]

@James1261 I wish there was a church which accepted and taught this sort of approach. There are very few churches which would welcome folks who see things through the lens of people like Borg, Crossan and Spong etc.

[Discerner1999]

@RadicalWhig Second Timothy 4:3-4, For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,

2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

[adamsfall]

I think Marcus and John Crossan have nailed it.

[careypeak23]

Jesus was adam, Melchesidek,and a couple of other people. He was a buddha, but christians will never admit that. He was a wine bibber, hung out with drug addicts and prostitutes and fishermen. He broke every jewish law, just to say none of this religiosity matters. He was concerned with the dream in everyones heart for security,identity, and belonging. He spoke in parables, and i'm convinced the decription of hell is a parable

[careypeak23]

Religious leaders say you have to do something to be ok, jesus said just believe you are and you are. The mind will lie, the heart dosent. The physical is a manifestation of belief, for belief is an action. What you believe is the way. Jesus said the way is to love yourself unconditionally and you automatically love god and your neighbor, there is no difference, its all the same thing.

[dw2626]

marcus- i dig u the most but oh bruva liberal christians need to get there message out there and use modern marketing techniques like the evangelists-who will make liberal christianity cool and show that it matters

[yamilv]

great writer

[AQuinault]

You will be assimilated. :p

[BarbarraBay]

Tao means "the way". 4th Noble Truth in Buddhism is called "Magga", which means to way. Tao says the more you try to change the world the more you ruin it. Buddha disallowed his monks to even talk about politics. Christainity may be political but please do not compare it to genuine holiness. Did not God say: 'Do not covet'.

[careypeak23]

Jesus was against religion. the only time he got angry is at religious leaders. You dont have to do anything to be ok, you are and always have been perfect for eternity, which is how long we've been around. We are in the middle of the trinity by way of a bond that cant be broken. The ego is barking up the tree of knowledge, and that isnt the answer. All that exists is life(love). Science says there are no absolutes, buddha says we are the observer(holy spirit).

[hopkins4545]

We're still called to help the poor and the meek of the earth with every ounce and fiber we have. And to call out injustice (unjust wars for example) whenever we see it.  Everything is not just simply "okay"; we are called to be disciples.

[Ashiman12]

That may be true, but Judaism existed in a time and world of intense political upheavel, and for a rising figure like Jesus, religion and politics were one and the same. Of course, "politics" didn't mean the conservative/liberal politics of today, but simply the shaping of society and how it effected people. Jesus advocated a society of equality, justice, and compassion, and that is political.

[LiarsFoolsFanatics]

Excellent